292 ‒ Rucking: benefits, gear, FAQs, and the journey from Special Forces to founding GORUCK

View show notes here: bit.ly/3Ipx2oI
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Jason McCarthy is a former US Special Forces member and the founder of GORUCK, a company specializing in rucking equipment. In this episode, Jason recounts his journey from military service to navigating the challenging transition back into civilian life and ultimately embracing the mission of introducing rucking to the masses. Delving into the significance of rucking in military training and its applicability to the wider population, he discusses the mental and physical benefits of rucking as a mode of training, provides practical tips for beginners, and answers frequently asked questions about packs, weights, footwear, and more.
We discuss:
0:00:00 - Intro
0:01:21 - Jason’s upbringing and what inspired him to join the military
0:09:45 - Jason’s path to becoming a Green Beret, his calling to serve, and staying true to oneself
0:20:46 - About the Green Berets: their role in the military, unique abilities, missions, and more
0:26:31 - The mental and physical challenges of special forces training and selection
0:40:54 - Rucking challenges as a Green Beret
0:51:51 - How Jason trained in his off-time and stayed mentally prepared
0:57:27 - Jason’s difficult decision to leave the army, and the challenges many veterans face returning to civilian life
1:04:32 - Jason’s struggles after leaving the army: loss of identity, feelings of shame, and the how he overcame a period of despair
1:20:34 - The origin of GORUCK
1:36:06 - The GORUCK Challenge
1:48:50 - The company's evolution from event organizer to manufacturing specialist, spurred by the growing interest in rucking as a form of training
1:52:24 - FAQs about rucking: packs, weight, rucksack vs. weighted vest, chest straps, and more
2:06:52 - Commemorating Normandy: GORUCK's plans for the 80th anniversary of the Normandy landings
2:13:54 - Footwear for rucking, and how GORUCK got into the footwear business
2:22:37 - How to avoid the most common injuries from rucking, and the benefits of rucking for VO2 max, strength, and sleep quality
2:31:48 - Advice for using rucking as a mode of training, and the advantages of rucking over other forms of training
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About:
The Peter Attia Drive is a deep-dive podcast focusing on maximizing longevity, and all that goes into that from physical to cognitive to emotional health. With over 70 million episodes downloaded, it features topics including exercise, nutritional biochemistry, cardiovascular disease, Alzheimer’s disease, cancer, mental health, and much more.
Peter Attia is the founder of Early Medical, a medical practice that applies the principles of Medicine 3.0 to patients with the goal of lengthening their lifespan and simultaneously improving their healthspan.
Learn more: peterattiamd.com
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[@PeterAttiaMD]

In this episode, we discuss: 0:01:21 - Jason’s upbringing and what inspired him to join the military 0:09:45 - Jason’s path to becoming a Green Beret, his calling to serve, and staying true to oneself 0:20:46 - About the Green Berets: their role in the military, unique abilities, missions, and more 0:26:31 - The mental and physical challenges of special forces training and selection 0:40:54 - Rucking challenges as a Green Beret 0:51:51 - How Jason trained in his off-time and stayed mentally prepared 0:57:27 - Jason’s difficult decision to leave the army, and the challenges many veterans face returning to civilian life 1:04:32 - Jason’s struggles after leaving the army: loss of identity, feelings of shame, and the how he overcame a period of despair 1:20:34 - The origin of GORUCK 1:36:06 - The GORUCK Challenge 1:48:50 - The company's evolution from event organizer to manufacturing specialist, spurred by the growing interest in rucking as a form of training 1:52:24 - FAQs about rucking: packs, weight, rucksack vs. weighted vest, chest straps, and more 2:06:52 - Commemorating Normandy: GORUCK's plans for the 80th anniversary of the Normandy landings 2:13:54 - Footwear for rucking, and how GORUCK got into the footwear business 2:22:37 - How to avoid the most common injuries from rucking, and the benefits of rucking for VO2 max, strength, and sleep quality 2:31:48 - Advice for using rucking as a mode of training, and the advantages of rucking over other forms of training

[@Debbie3360]

😊😊😊😊😊

[@rducut]

Like he said, You dont need a fancy ruck sack to start. I hike with a 25lbs dumbell inside a regular backpack. Works great!

[@mitchtickets]

in fact, you never need a fancy rucksack. I just wrap a dumbbell in a beach towel.

[@stephenkearny1504]

Rough cut boards, logs, or cross sections of large logs work great too. Stuff your pack with these - set them upright so that you can add sections side by side in your pack. You can soak them in water to get extra weight if you want. The weight stays distributed (not just at the bottom). Any pack will do.

[@polysaturated]

Or large bottles of water if you’re just starting out. You can pour out some of the water if it gets too heavy.

[@TheB1nary]

Same! Weight discs and books. In a rucksack (fjallraven singi 48). It works.

[@paddywagondriver4205]

I've been rucking sine May. Lost 75 lbs. I needed it. My lung quality has improved. My overall health is a complete 180 from where it was a year ago. Finding Rucking & using GORuck's products has been a blessing

[@tomsteinhauer7985]

I’ve lost 90 lbs by using Rucking as a primary form of exercise! Started as simple blue collar logic… I can burn more calories in my walk if I add weight. I was 300 lbs so I fig my joints, tendons , muscles were used to that load anyway so I would load an old tree stand up with weights,,, I’d take my current body weight and just add whatever I lost… I roll regularly with a 75 lb load out, I know nobody cares about the weight😎 At age 47 I completely the military rucking standard for age 18-26… Basically 40 lbs for 12 miles in 2hrs:57 min. I’m just an average guy who is a heavy equipment operator and finding ways to fight for my health and fitness! I’m a huge fan and currently own an 80lb goruck sandbag , inspired by Cam and use it regularly. I’m a huge fan of GoRuck and Peter and can’t thank you all enough for what you share, It has helped me greatly !!!

[@michellecraven2814]

@PeterAttiaMD I’ve asked STRAVA several times to add Rucking / Backpacking (as well as Horseback) to their activities… two things I log almost daily that go under “Hike”. Yet pickle ball and windsurfing are listed!! Maybe if you or Jason McCarthy reached out to Strava they would do it!!

[@DanielThomasArgueta]

I'd love it if they added rucking to Strava and Garmin.

[@leoneldelarosaibarria]

Same here! It would be great to have the option to select Rucking and then enter weight. Hopefully Peter, Jason and Michael Easter pick up on this

[@russ4king1]

Add it to Garmin too please ❤️

[@rmdps]

Something that may add some spice to rucking is grabbing a solid pair of Nordic poles/sticks and ruck with them. They make rucking heavy quite interesting as they seem to distribute the load well. When you have them, now you're Nordic Rucking!

[@alonzochavez1155]

"hunger is the best sauce" that's real right there

[@ejr2001]

This has become my favorite interview by Peter Attia ever. Well done

[@DegenGaming]

I was in the Marine Corps and hated rucking. I think it was a boot problem. Never felt like I had good boots and my feet paid the price. After the military I finally found that I loved running. Now I've gotten back into rucking and have good boots and know a lot more so I find I'm loving it! I'll be doing both running and rucking until I die. Hope that's not for quite a while though! GoRuck boots and getting my v4 pack in a few days. Great talk, guys!

[@thecostanzatheory]

Been rucking for ~8 mos now inspired by a previous ep Peter mentioned the importance of load bearing exercises. Dove in head first, started at 30 lbs, then 45 now 75 lbs last few weeks~50% of my body weight. Walking my dogs 2x day, 1 mi per, why not max out?! Incorporating barefoot shoes as well. Thank you both for the inspiration as I use GoRuck products, awesome stuff.

[@Icarianbrother]

Blue Zone Icarian Rucking involves bundling leafy branches with a rope, placing the bundle on your back, walking uphill and feeding the leafy branches to goats. My relative did this and lived to be 103 years old.

[@jjuniper274]

Thank you so much for this discussion. When you said shuffle, it reminded me of dad. Dad called it the Marine Corp shuffle. He said you can shuffle for eternity with a 50# pack, breathe a cadence song and go on and on and on.

[@robertadams3666]

Just for all the listeners. I’ve been in the U.S. Army for 18 years (still serving). I’m a high ranking senior non commissioned officer and what they said about college degrees in regards to commissioned officer vs non commissioned officers is false. I understand what point he was (hopefully) trying to make but for clarity LOTS of non commissioned officers and enlisted have college degrees. A lot of us choose enlisted because we would rather get our hands dirty while doing the job and be right there next to the troops getting things done. Some officer positions require this as well but most do not. It just all depends. Making general statements about the military about degrees, types of people who are enlisted or officer is problematic because both enlisted and officer ranks are diverse in many ways. Anyways, I could say more but I think I’ve made my point.

[@richarddodson560]

Agree, I’m in my 25th year as an officer, but every mid to senior NCO has a college degree.

[@don.hinton]

Great podcast. I’m a 64 year old former Marine grunt hiking the AT, mainly for my health. Rucking, or humping as we’d call it, is by far the best way to exercise. ;-)

[@maxime3648]

Halfway through the podcast, As a non american this episode is absolutely terrifiying. This guy speaks about war as if it was a teen sports camp. I can't help but think about how people like that could come to my country one day, destroy everything and then come back to civilian life with the only regret being to not see their war comrades anymore. I mean i live in an ally country so that probably won't happen but still

[@astroboy483]

Yeah. If Americans say they are coming, it isn’t a threat. It’s a fair warning.

[@meredithstandridge6503]

This episode was way more interesting than I thought it was going to be. Thank you!

[@jays7318]

I am a backpacker and choose to pack very light to prevent injury. I prefer carrying no more than 25 lbs on a multi-day trip (including food and water) That makes the wilderness experience much better for me

[@suzannecase6170]

Time 1:46 made me smile and my heart filled. The big man that wouldn’t give up his pack but learned how to ask for help.

[@sebastianboninodiaz5495]

I have been looking for this chapter for a while already. Finally here, enjoying it while I comment.

[@cfrun02]

Loved the interview. However, no one clearly identified the specifics of what rucking physically does for you? The mentally benefits were beautifully explained. Like does it help posture, etc. Thanks !

[@dannyhenry38]

listened to the full episode. Best podcast I've enjoyed in years. I've read the book the Comfort Crisis. Couldn't recommend both the book and this podcast more. Just finished a 2 hour ruck with my 75# vest yesterday and feel amazing. Really grateful for this podcast Peter and for having McCarthy on. Godspeed.

[@user-yi1pq2bn9j]

Thank you so much for an inspirational discussion. I started a while ago running to and from the office with my backpack (10-12 lbs) and I'm enjoying it more and more. After this podcast, I'm seriously considering to take it to the next level!

[@kerriesmith9119]

Thank you so much for your openness and honesty, Jason. Such a rare quality 🙏

[@Sandra9135]

Wow! Great interview! His calling to the forces is fascinating to me. Of course, also the rucking is interesting and inspiring.

[@chadbailey3623]

Thank you so much, Jason, for your story. I learned about rucking in ~2014 or 2015. By the end of that year, I had started. I have stuck with it to today. My own problematic history also makes me love rucking and carrying a lot of weight.

[@rachaelalbanese1851]

Oh my!! I’m loving this podcast already- and only 30 seconds in!!! 💪🙌

[@johnshallman508]

As I get older I really try to have variation in lifting/training. Recently bought a double plate weight vest since I'm away from home more with work. Found a balanced front/back is great but it is a little "easier" than my rig used at home which is a back mounted outfitter frame pack. Both are good and I believe it is good to be able to hump stuff on your back somewhat assymetrically in addition to the balanced vests. Completely different balance, stride, hip load, etc.

[@mitchcollins5840]

Excellent, well done.

[@tinit5190]

I was just going to try and reach out about what pack is good for rucking as I want to start doing it this summer with my dog. Perfect time for this pod to drop.

[@bryanspencer4856]

Great interview! Proud to support Goruck!

[@TheProactivePatients]

Making me think of all the baby wearing mommas out there. My daughter (4) loves for me to go for walks with her on my back (she's currently 36 lbs). I like hiking with her on my back. Never thought of it as rucking, but basically is

[@brianclark641]

I’ve had a GoRuck for a few years…I love it

[@Josesiem00]

Jason is so cool and humble. Wish all CEOs were like this. Love that he's not there to pitch his product or make a big deal of it -- just get outside and do something is his message.

[@RahimLadhajuma]

Love this!!

[@josephrice6807]

Great episode

[@officepatina]

What an inspirational story. Thanks for turning me on to rucking and this community.

[@TheProactivePatients]

Reminds me of outward bound type trips, but instead of carrying life essentials, your not going out as long and puttting metal plates instead of food, clothes and supplies. I did a trip like this as an extra orientation for college. 5 days of hiking, 5 days of canoing (including daily portages carrying a metal canoe on top of your 50-70 lb pack up over hills) both in teams of 5, 5 days of sailing an old brig with a crew of 15, and 2 days of solo without food. It was an amazing trip and an amazing way to meet my future classmates.

[@anitanewton1191]

I loved his story (so thank you!). An important opportunity area would be rebrand the episode. It really isn't that helpful for beginners. I am pretty fit, but am middle aged and never tried rucking. I think talking about rucking without how to specifically get started / talking about potential for injury is a miss. This podcast is really geared to someone who is fit. In the two 3 hour episode there is 1 may 2 questions for beginners..but doesn't really answer the most important questions - how do i start, how do i not hurt myself, what are the biomechanics... - (elasticity vs strength), how do specifically get started.For those who need more hand holding (eg and don't want to hurt themselves). I found the podcast 'Ruck & Roll A complete Guide - Dr. Andrew Miners and Dr. Stuart McGill' to be a lot more helpful in terms of starting out AND not risking injury.' One other note, i would have hoped Jason would have talked about the difference between plates and sacks. It is incredibly confusing and I still don't know which one to get on the Go Ruck site. Thanks for listening and for sharing the inspiring story.

[@46positivity]

Does anyone here know how walking with dumbbells compares to rucking with a backpack?

[@DanielThomasArgueta]

Wow, it's about 1:50 am Pacific time, so I'll listen to this later. I've done multiple GORUCK events, use their gear, and met Jason in person, this is a must listen for me. I'm planning to start rucking again soon. 😎

[@mikemcgraw1062]

Enjoyed the podcast. Appreciate Jason’s insights and passion for rucking. I was very surprised that Peter never asked him about being the premier sponsor for CrossFit. I would have loved to hear how that came about.

[@monpederson]

I inadvertently began rucking while riding my bike. Doing hill repeats with a backpack full of stuff from work adds enough cardio component that I noticed my workouts were lacking on the weekend without the weight. So I started carrying weight on the weekends too! I can't carry the weight on my feet due to knee, ankle and foot issues but if I could, I would!

[@7266jp]

Rucking is outstanding exercise where you get to work on strength and aerobic capacity at the same time. Try mountain rucking where you are climbing a 1000 plus feet. You will get your heart rate up quick on the uphill and not to mention build great strength. Also the eccentric strength in the downhill portion is great as well.

[@MLBaxley]

this was just an awesome interview and discussion. loved all of it! the thought of doing a 50mile ruck on the shores of normandy just gave me goosebumps, and i loved the description of how being there was just a sense of awe and thankful ness! appreciate the men who served and sacrificed!

[@WorthItToYou]

Another impressive podcast. Love Jason’s sincerity and honesty. His marriage story is online with mine. Been remarried to my husband for 22 years. First time around it was 11 ❤

[@runninblue9415]

Fascinating story. Interesting product. Maybe could have made more links with benefits for ageing? Just a thought. Inspiring thanks 👍

[@ryannorton1278]

Listening to his training experiences, the Marines hold their officers to similar standards and training to that of SOF. Now it isn’t to the same extent but baseline principles are the same. Like a JV and varsity type situation.

[@dsoppelsa26]

The weight distribution of a vest I find more comfortable

[@edward8009]

It would be great if Peter could address a recent article in The Economist regarding Spain taking over Japan as the longest life span. The article says they smoke and drink on average more than other European countries. They also eat a lot of ham and fried “things”. They eat late at night but have good health care. They do have good connections with family and friends. Maybe working on grip strength and zone 2 cardio isn’t as important as we think. The oldest person in the world from Spain at 117 my guess didn’t spend much time thinking about it. But I bet she has a lot of relatives who lived a long time.

[@DanielThomasArgueta]

Interesting 🤔

[@sebastianboninodiaz5495]

...and also drink wine everyday.

[@nichtsistkostenlos6565]

Looking at entire populations and measuring average lifespan is completely useless except for collecting actuarial data for insurance calculations. It provides no insight into what any individual should be doing because there are literally millions of uncontrolled variables.

[@AL-fo3jj]

​@@nichtsistkostenlos6565 but I should still use a seatbelt right?!

[@pedro.almeida]

Ecological data is interesting and you can collect lots of things to explore in controlled trials, but can't really make conclusions based on that, too many confounders (genetics, climate, air quality, etc).

[@Drewbie176]

Oh cool, I just went on a long ruck yesterday with my Goruck pack and Goruck boots. Looking forward to this

[@redadair280]

What is the "try" book that was mentioned in the last quarter (I think). I couldn't take notes as I was driving. I loved this conversation, I didn't want it to end. I wasn't bored one bit, even though I am not into rucking. The part about it falling apart when he went to civvy street, the male ego and the river Nile talk. Loved it!

[@justinpeto]

Is there a coupon code for the Rucker 4.0? Would love to get one but can’t afford the price

[@sebastianboninodiaz5495]

The great physical distance between real athletes and me... for Peter Attia rucking is a hobby, for me is my main form of training (and I love it of course).

[@chrishabgood8900]

the prroblem with Army Sf a an officer is there is only 1 or 2 per team, so very limited selection.

[@jeremysenn4270]

A 25lb or 50lb bag of cement mix from the hardware store, wrapped in duct tape, works great for putting in a backpack.

[@clockwork421]

To all the new ruckers and old heads alike, keep it up. Y'all are killing it. We started hosting remote rucks out from the Midwest that can be done anywhere with challenges. Come try them out with us. 1 mission a month. #ruckofsuck

[@skywalkergreen9012]

Thanks for sharing your story Jason! I have a feeling that many more will be drawn to the rucking community because of this. Your enthusiasm is contagious. Thank you Peter for this conversation (And thank you so much for taking the time to send me the signed copy of Outlive with such a positive message! 😃) J.B.

[@oldjetta]

Wondering if this awesome product is up for grabs internationally? 🌍 Specifically eyeing it from Europe. Any deets on shipping and extra costs? Thanks a bunch! 🙌😊

[@pedro.almeida]

Asked an AI for equivalent products in Europe and got the following: Haglöfs, Fjällräven, Mysterium Parachute Regiment (MPRA) and Berghaus. I think this is more of a outdoors type of backpack but still might be worth to take a look.

[@mdoddbama]

Is there a link to his rucking backpack?

[@rusl12]

Napoleon lost because of footwear. And there I was thinking it was Russian winter and turning a whole continent against him

[@SpindlyScoudrel]

Likeable guy.

[@ingmeisterk874]

Slogan can only be: Go Ruck yourself.

[@King-Jawa]

Work = Force x Distance. This is a super simple way to increase work/exercise by in creasing the force required to walk. Definitely adding this in to my regimen. Also ill use a spare pack I have now, but if I become an enthusiast I wouldnt mind buying a purpose built pack. People complaining about the price obviously didnt listen to the podcast.

[@CarnifaxMachine]

I have a GoRuck pack and can definitely recommend it. Yes, it's expensive, but it's hard to put a price on fitness. Also, it's high quality so it'll likely last decades. Buy once cry once.

[@user-qk8yk7km1n]

Rucking… all my colleagues who are ex army end up needing hip and knee replacements entirely through rucking, walking on uneven terrain with added weight isn’t good for you long term surprisingly

[@beeefstick]

In the Army, you often have to push through beyond the point of damage, and then you don’t get adequate time to recover and heal up before having to get on it again. This is a big part of why so many people get broken. In the context of civilian training, you are able to be smart about it to avoid damage and take time to heal as needed.

[@Ryan.G.Spalding]

The most amazing thing is how young this guy looks. You have my attention!

[@DrewRoberts]

BASEd. 2 of my fav people..

[@WebGemSports2012]

Voice sounds like Jocko. Great listen

[@sgringo]

1:52:45 - The ruck isn't a great source of exercise?

[@efkhatisto4351]

What's the meaning of rucking?

[@v45ud3v4]

heavy backpacking

[@efkhatisto4351]

Thanks!

[@SpindlyScoudrel]

From wearing a Rucksack

[@efkhatisto4351]

I had never Heard of this before and dictionary wasn't helping :)

[@balbos7114]

🥇🥇🥇🥇

[@Funkybassuk]

Sorry, for rugby players “rucking” means something totally different.

[@MichaelLeopold1]

Score

[@dosboot1]

Poor episode. "Rucking: benefits ..." -- the very thing that was listed first in the title is almost no where in the episode. I still don't grasp what rucking trains in terms of everything else Attia talks about and whether it is important besides being outside and leaving devices behind.

[@sgringo]

Worse still: at 1:52:45, it sounded like Attia said that rucking isn't a good source of exercise. So, to your point, it's a bit hard to know what to take away from this video.

[@laurentgaildraud9164]

Strange interview from Peter...

[@Debbie3360]

Love the products, just wish you had a womens only shoe on a womens last & not a unisex shoe. & something for narrow feet.

[@elvay6847]

Rucking is for people who suck at trail running. Prove me wrong...

[@pedro.almeida]

Yes but by the same logic Trail Running is for people that can't run without taking walk breaks. 😂

[@ungarlinski7965]

Pete was an ass in this one. Ego.

[@pedro.almeida]

I don't think it was specifically in this interview, but yeah sometimes he goes into something like debriefing/interrogation style of conversation that seems confrontational. Also since podcasts also cut little bits of silence here and there and usually don't show both heads at the same time, you lose the small nods and smiles that make a conversation seem healthy. Ymmv.

[@shus5787]

Dont forget the 1 million dead civilians in iraq

[@maxime3648]

Yeah i'm horrified by this episode, i'm not saying the guy on the mic is necesserally bad, but speaking about war so lightly is just unfathomable to me, he sounds straight out from Starship Troopers

[@nichtsistkostenlos6565]

It was really great when he totally dodged the question about how the Iraq War was clearly nonsense at the time and yet he still signed up to go kill people for no damn reason other than he felt like he should.

[@polysaturated]

Yeah I’m really surprised that he doesn’t regret that having been the mission. Not like the soldiers get to choose whom to fight or where. A lot of people were just duped.

[@TheB1nary]

😂

[@lafan4801]

Only a true snake eater would say that MREs taste ok.

[@loopba]

Nearly everything online is about trying to sell people things they don’t need and drive constant consumer mentality. Great example here and frankly really sad. The mentioned equipment is over $400 😅

[@montgomeryscot6623]

Spot on, you don't even get the belt in that price. If you're not paying for the product, you are the product.

[@pedro.almeida]

Well to be fair he said you can just grab a normal backpack and go out.

[@WORKOUTSOLUTIONS]

❤💪🚶‍♂️🏋️‍♂️⛪🙏☦GOD BE WITH US ✝🙏🕊🧗‍♂️🌟✌🚀❤‍🔥

[@polysaturated]

Arnold Schwarzenegger eats Green Berets for breakfast.

[@mitchtickets]

this dude lost me when he said, "anti-fragile."

[@pedro.almeida]

It's a concept popularized by Nassim Taleb. The opposite of fragile it's not resilient. For the lack of a better word, he settled on anti-fragile to describe something that BENEFITS from negative events (not just endures or survives them).

[@MsWorldMine]

Lol who’s paying the bill if I keep moving

[@richiejames928]

Iv always rucked, I commute to work with a rucksack in my back. I hardly ever leave the house without it on my back. if not a work day then it has my gym clothes in it and everything else. walking with added weight is awesome.