$2K Cheaper, 2X Better? - The Thunder Bolt Desktop Laser

Thunder Laser is one of my favorite companies in this space. They recently released the Thunder Bolt a direct competitor the other desktop machines like the Glowforge and xTool P2. Let's find out how it stacks up against the competition!
Thunder Bolt - geni.us/thunder-bolt
The Laser Comparison Chart - pages.makeorbreakshop.com/las...
Lightburn Course - course.makeorbreakshop.com/le...
LASERS MENTIONED (Affiliate)
Thunder NOVA 24 - geni.us/8GLek
xTool P2 - geni.us/xtoolp2
OMTech Polar - geni.us/omtechpolar
Glowforge - geni.us/pzgIi
TIMESTAMPS
00:00 - Start
00:09 - Marker 1
01:36 - Price
02:10 - Build Quality
05:09 - Laser
08:43 - Work area
09:11 - Depth
09:42 - Machine Area
10:30 - Speed
11:14 - Focus
12:58 - Interface
14:51 - Software
15:45 - Support
16:40 - The Best??
17:28 - Recommendation

[@makeorbreakshop]

Just realized I had the chart for the software wrong, the xTool P2 should have 5 and everything else 4. The total at the end is right...I just missed that in the edit.

[@derekwright2388]

Surely glow forge doesn't get 4 stars! It can't use lightburn and your tied to the Internet to make it work?

[@makeorbreakshop]

Ha yep you’re right, I just messed all of this up…Glowforge would be last

[@JoeBrinkman66]

I think you missed a critical category - maintenance. How easy is it to keep the machines in focus and the mirrors aligned. Along with the availability of parts should you need a replacement lens, or mirror or any other part for the machine. Would love to see you add that in a supplementary video.

[@WallyJ2K]

Amazing video! Rock on dude!

[@garrydye2394]

I would say the #1 factor beyond the price point is knowing ahead of time what you plan on doing with this, or any, laser to make money. If you think you are going to laser some cool images on a piece of wood and ever get your money back...think again. Every Tom, Dick, and Harry is out there trying to do the same exact thing. The cheaper the entry level into business (and 5K is beyond cheap) the more people are going to be in your space and for that reason...you should really have an idea of how you are going to make a profit BEFORE you buy the laser. This is way more important than the price differences between the laser. You can come back from spending to much if you have a great idea. You will not come back from getting a great deal on a laser if you have no idea how you are going to turn a profit. Figure it out before you buy the laser....don't hope and pray you will just magically figure it all out after you get it.

[@BetaFax]

A version of this comment should be on all videos / media like this.

[@Fobes]

More wisdom in this comment than in most of the laser engraver videos on KZbin.

[@ataylor4441]

Thanks so much a great review! Our slowforge has been giving us fits for a long time now, where we have fixed the red wire issue several times. Glowforge's support only replies with special over a thousand to pay for a refurbished one that might not last either. We are doing fairly well with our small business, and decided to replace the slowforge with the Thunder Bolt. We look forward to having a laser that is top quality with customer support that backs up their product.

[@patberry3388]

I am impressed. I do have an Epilog laser and considering adding a second machine. This is a real contender. I am a home hobby person and make gifts for my family and friends. However, once in awhile I do sell things . I really like lasers and CNC machines. I think this Bolt is a winner.

[@unclerichard6729]

You left out a couple of hugely important categories... 1. "Can you buy parts?" At least one of those machines will not sell you parts, when your tube gets weak you have to ship it back to the manufacturer and they give you a coupon for a discount on a supposed "Refurbished" machine. So to replace your tube cost you a few thousand dollars, or a bearing, or any other part you can't get from somewhere else. 2. One thing I that wasn't clear in the "Connectivity" section, which machines force you to be connected to their cloud before they let you use it? That is a HUGE deal breaker for me. If the internet, or your router, or their server, is down so is your laser??? Not going to happen. If a company has that much control over whether or not you can use your machine that will eventually come around to screw you, guaranteed. At some point that company is going to want you to pay for it's cloud, meaning a new monthly subscription service. At any time that company could go out of business making your laser a super expensive paper weight. Look at how many KZbin vids are out there highlighting how their projects were delayed, or completely ruined because Adobe's servers crashed so Premier locked up. Both of these issues make a huge difference in which lasers are usable/affordable.

[@d.j.p.]

Which company do you have to send the whole machine back to he manufacturer?

[@ataylor4441]

@@d.j.p. That's the Glowforge. They even say that they have the rights to all of the designs that you upload to their cloud. You have to pay extra to add text, mirror your image and many basic things with their UI. Their machines aren't dependable, and that's why we just order the Bolt to replace ours.

[@d.j.p.]

​@@ataylor4441 thanks, good to know what to avoid!

[@CorneliusCreations]

Awesome video bro!

[@makeorbreakshop]

thanks!

[@Matt_Hatt3r]

This was extremely helpful and I loved the Thor clips mixed in 😂

[@user-li7xe5rh5m]

What a great review! I've been looking at this machine and the Omtech & P2 as well. Curious - how would you say the noise level is for this machine vs. the other C02 lasers you have, such as the GF Pro?

[@ulaB]

Very nice comparison and machine. I myself am going to give the P2 bonus points for having a passthrough and the conveyor - mostly to justify that I just bought it… ;-) There seems to be a rotary addon for the bolt, so they both have that.

[@makeorbreakshop]

P2 is still great! Bolt does have a rotary

[@gp_fabrication]

I was excited to hear of the Bolt coming during one of the webinars and I held off getting a laser until it came out. Unfortunately it is just a bit too tall for my application and the price was a little out of my arena for a first machine. I went with the Polar for now as the price was only $2500 when I bought it. Maybe if I can get to a point where I can build my shop differently I can look at it again.

[@wtbpianolessons]

How are you liking the polar? I was looking at getting one.

[@-vermin-]

Why do manufacturers keep ignoring the most commonly available material stock size (24 x 12)?

[@SaveTheSunF1R3x]

Metric

[@-vermin-]

@@SaveTheSunF1R3x That's still 600 x 300mm. Not 500 x 300mm.

[@johnflux1]

The glowforge pro can deal with 24x12. It wouldn't be able to cut the very edge (1/2" from both sides), but with passthrough it can cut/engrave the middle. See unnecessaryinventions jigsaw table

[@-vermin-]

@@johnflux1 Bahahaha. "Glowforge". No thanks. They can keep their stupid cloud.

[@adrianscarlett]

Can't say I've ever come across that as a standard size in the uk

[@davidcoppola7620]

Great Video. I would love to see a direct comparison with the xtool P2. Comparing engraving speed/quality etc. Keep up the good work

[@makeorbreakshop]

Sure thing.

[@millan14nbk78]

This would be a great video

[@snaczas5107]

This is also what I need-are the extra features of the P2 worth giving up Thunder quality?

[@tristanlane3777]

5K for a machine that uses Vwheels for motion? That's bogus. Even Omtech Polar / Gweike Cloud have proper linear guides.

[@GuyWithAGweikeCloud]

Thunders are so solid and amazing lasers and incredible to see them come out with the Bolt but pricewise Polars can now be had in great condition used for $1700 or less. I rather have multiple used Polars honestly for this price. I dont engrave much however, mostly cutting. And even if i was engraving, like you said, ill get multiple diodes.

[@TheRogueBro]

Where can we get Polars used? I would love to pick one up!

[@GuyWithAGweikeCloud]

​@@TheRogueBroeBay

[@adamjunod]

Apples to apples, I can see how the Thunder Bolt wins compared to the XTool P2. For $900 more however, the P2 comes with a rotary add-on, conveyer feeder, riser, and air purifier. Thunder doesn't even offer an air purifier or a conveyor feeder, and the rotary tool is $1400 more. With that in mind, does the Bolt still win?

[@gaiustacitus4242]

With its accessories, the xTool P2 is the most versatile laser of the lot. It can do far more than the competition. Of course, those features are only useful if you need them for your business.

[@adrianscarlett]

You used to be above to buy a cheap 40w co2 laser for a few hundred, and a 90w with a 600 x 900mm work area for not much over £1000. Wish I'd bought one then, but I was concentrating on cnc machining at the time.

[@radicalrick9587]

*I've known for ages that Thunder Bolt was by far the best there is out there. No comparison. Thunder Bolt is the Tesla of Laser machine. The reason for this is Thunder Bolt, like Tesla, cares very deeply about its customers by not only giving them the best bang for their money, with a top-notch machine that has gone through super rigid testing and quality control testing, and, their customer service is second to none. Whereas the competition cares more about making money first, then second, helping their customer afterward. Those companies have their priorities messed up.*

[@user-kk3gs1hq9f]

Awsome greate video. Love it.

[@makeorbreakshop]

thanks!

[@barthrh2]

You missed the test to see which did the best job of etching onto a curved surface, either concave or convex. When you exclude a key feature of a competitive machine (P2) it's not a valid value comparison.

[@zedinator]

The thunder laser is no good for me as I do a lot of uneven and curved surfaces. I agree with @barthrh2 . Possibly he needed to show Thunder Laser in a good position, I could be wrong though but I still stand by my comment

[@kevinstamper53]

Great video, very helpful! I’m just debating whether to buy the Bolt or the Nova24 to cut 0.7mm wood veneers for marquetry designs - do you have any thoughts on which machine would be best for this? Thanks, Kevin.

[@makeorbreakshop]

Both would be great and get the job done. The NOVA could crank them out faster and you wouldn’t be as limited by size. But you pay more

[@grumpy9304]

@makeorbreakshop , unless you fit the nova 24 with a 30w tube and a 1.5 lens the bolts RF tube has a tighter beam, better beam quality, and kerf cut 1/3 the width of the glass tube cousin. for veneers, the bolt just takes the prize, precision and zero marking, Also tried the same files on an xtool p1 and p2, but have much dirtier cuts, Glowforge kerf is worse than the nova, even compensating for the errors when using autofocus on the GF

[@blueskyjax]

Will the thunder bolt allow you to use a different rotary or just theirs? It adds almost $1000 bucks to price. Great video!

[@ajvaldez]

What do you do with all these machines after the reviews?

[@goldgulfcoastdesignericsho8628]

100% we can confirm this is the best machine for the money!

[@gaiustacitus4242]

I've watched other comparisons where actual cutting time was measured. Before fully understanding the logic used to control the laser, I was surprised to see that machines with 600 to 1,000 mm speeds could only produce parts at roughly the same run time as machines with a maximum speed of 300 to 400 mm. The reason is that the faster machines have to overshoot the work area when ramping up and slowing down. Ultimately, the best choice of laser comes down to (1) the purpose you intend to use it for (cutting or fine engraving) and (2) how fast it can perform the required task.

[@JeremyDWilliamsOfficial]

That Tik Tok style zoom in and out... ugh. You don't need to overproduce your videos. The topic and your skill at presenting is more than enough. :)

[@devs45]

Liked the video, but I kept thinking shouldn't this be compared to Aeon products for price vs desktop category. I think the Thunder still would win but I think that is more of the comparison.

[@luke_fabis]

Thunder seems to be taking a lot of ideas from Universal Laser. This looks like a pretty good system.

[@thewisetaurus8]

whats the best machine do to 40oz tumbler full wraps?

[@bytesizedengineering]

Your Gus Fring/Mof Gideon crossover shirt is AMAZING! I burst out laughing as soon as I saw it!

[@justinwtolbert]

Is there a place to buy this refurbished ? As much as I’d love to buy just don’t have 5k. I feel like with no lasertube you could probably buy one that was used and not have to worry too much about longevity.

[@SpwnDragn]

what about pass throughs to do longer material?

[@ImperialLightandMagic]

Pass through? This wasn’t touched on and I think is important for many people

[@leahdax]

It was a good comparison, but very disappointed that you didn't include the Aeon Mira 5 and the Epilog Fusion Edge.

[@aarondmarr]

How does this compare to the gweike cloud RF? That seems like the better comparison RF desktop vs RF desktop. Love the videos as always.

[@makeorbreakshop]

Yeh good call, after I shot the video I was like I should have included it. I would say it would do well against the gweike RF. The engraving quality would be similar, the Gweike can run faster but it's not going to be as serviceable or have as big of a work area.

[@-vermin-]

@@makeorbreakshop or have as good support if something goes wrong.

[@grumpy9304]

I have a gweike cloud too, the engrave speed is faster on paper but in testing it shows overlap errors when pushed, any Thunderlaser model can out engrave a Gweike, the Bolt is far better

[@oddlytimbotwillison6296]

Thunder Laser has a distributor in Canada as well as the USA, that's pretty nice.

[@makeorbreakshop]

oh awesome!

[@-vermin-]

Australia too.

[@Macambium]

The tinted viewing windows on all of the omtech line, does it filter out the majority of the laser from making it out into the environment?

[@ThunderLaserUSA]

the tint mitigates visible light. clear acrylic/glass will mitigate 100% of the laser emissions. thunder (and others) are fda approved class 2 devices and are completely safe with all doors/lids in place.

[@bryans.82]

I have a question. For some reason, my D1 pro 10w is not measuring correctly. For example, a 5x5mm square will be 6x7 or 7x7. Do you know why it is doing that or how to fix it?

[@Fobes]

Sounds like a calibration issue. Your software should have a calibration setting where you engrave or cut something then measure it and put the actual measurements in the software. It then corrects itself.

[@lovingcryptowizard4587]

can you substitute for nitrogen instead of CO2? only asking because Canada has a tax on CO2??

[@John-gm8ty]

can it cut glass?

[@debiweeks4548]

Can this machine cut 1/4” wood?

[@dtruth5988]

Wondering why wasn't the Aeon Mira 7 or 9 in this competition? I would love to see a comparison between the both Bolt and the Mira models.

[@svorgodne]

Omtech Polar also has 1000 dpi

[@anderslarsen8546]

They do not sell this in europe but they should.

[@DonSwain]

Does the thunder have a pass through option like the xtool p2?

[@makeorbreakshop]

Yep!

[@jgoudey4477]

Have to disagree with the cutting on the Bolt, Thunder put out a video of the Bolt cutting 3inch clear acrylic with the lens that it ships with. The wattage is lower on the RF's but the beam is more powerful its about the equivalent of a 60ish watt CO2 from what I have gathered by watching testing.

[@hangupanddrive]

I'm sort of taken back by the low "cutting" score. I've seen videos of cutting 1" thick clear polycarbonate and was suitably impressed. Why the low cutting score?

[@makeorbreakshop]

It can still cut and does a good job, but compared to 50-60W machines it isn’t as strong. In general RF machines really shine with engraving and then CO2’s are great for cutting centered projects.

[@Ceci-Pina]

I am new and really would be interested in a laser for cutting not engraving (at least initially) I would be interested in cutting 3mm Acrylic, different color & mirror acrylic. Would the bolt be good for this, the cutting score/ review on this tells me although it could do it would be slow(multiple passes?) to do that compared to others? 30w power for cutting is not a lot.

[@ChaseLacroix]

I'm struggling to find desktop laser that can cut up to 18ga steel/stainless. Any insight you could offer up?

[@gaiustacitus4242]

None of the commercially available desktop lasers are designed for that purpose. While fiber lasers can do what you ask, the capacity of those machines is very small and the speed of cutting through steel sheet stock is too slow to be feasible.

[@selimsaim]

so it seriously comes in last place for cutting? the slowforge is faster? i was told that the 30watt rf cuts the same as a 60 glass.. that is not the case? is it faster than a 40watt diode? haha

[@the-bu3lb]

These are just so expensive tho. If we Can get something that’s as good or better at a decent price then it’s worth it.

[@warriorhook]

You said that a glass tube last longer everything I’ve found said RF tubes last 2 too 3 times longer than glass tube just wondering if I’m miss informed I have a nova 35/100 watt it’s a tank thinking about the bolt for trade shows

[@makeorbreakshop]

RF tube lasts longer, that section I didn’t make it super clear.

[@foundrylabz]

So they claim it can cut all the way to 1/2 birch. Have you tried that?

[@greg4367]

Does an RF LASER cut clear acrylic?

[@Stevieboy7]

RF does everything CO2 can.

[@greg4367]

Thank you@@Stevieboy7

[@AdamsLab]

"I really don't get a kickback..." Except they send you $5k machines for free... Can we dispense with the subterfuge in this space already?

[@makeorbreakshop]

Not trying to conceal anything, just wanted to be clear about the relationship on the backend. Sorry if it came across like I was trying to hide it, really not by goal with any of these.

[@AdamsLab]

@@makeorbreakshop - At best it’s completely disingenuous, at worst it’s an outright lie to say you don’t get a kickback. You received a $5,000 machine in exchange for a review. It is a paid review, with all the baggage of a paid review. Why creators try to absolve themselves of getting paid for reviews because they “only” received the product for free is just getting old.

[@Fleshybitz]

Compare this to the RM J750, I think it beats it and the price is amazing for a 90W CO2.

[@learningwithcindy]

We love omtech over here

[@apetdodzi1856]

❤

[@jonwoodworker]

The Thunder doesn't seem to have any pass through capability like the others.

[@meliciapilgrim5802]

What I mostly wanted to know.

[@YaaLFH]

The two important things they forgot about was to make it easier to move and look less industrial - more like a machine that has a place in a craft workshop. The working area is tiny for such a chunky machine.

[@Nurse_Lucy]

I need you to make a video about the skull engraving

[@deepmystic6739]

Yeah please take the constructive criticism I enjoy your comparisons and talking points But the movie cuts is old and tired

[@Spyderman500]

You should have included the Boss Laser machine

[@makeorbreakshop]

I might have missed it but does Boss have one that is in the desktop style?

[@SleepHeroic]

I know another laser named coolook creator 1,it seemed to be better,who can test?

[@thecentralscrutinizerr]

I dunno man, the X2 from the X-Men is kinda trouncing the Avengers. One guy engraved text on a single grain of rice with it.

[@AffectionateDragonflies-dy4gb]

Hey am a jeweller and need a laser for cutting gold or silver am a subscriber please

[@jprenaud5308]

Why compare with glowforge pro when the Plus is $2k cheaper and the main feature of the pro you didn’t even give glowforge credit for - pass through. Bolt got 3 points for a 20x12 printbed and you gave glowforge 1 point for a 19.5x11 printbed??? Pro actually has a 11.5xInfinity printbed. If you’re going to knock the Glowforge on price for the Pro, at least give them credit where credit is due.

[@BobGarrett66]

Hmm… And right after swearing on his grandmother’s grave that it was the best value for under $5K, what happened. They jacked the price by $500. Yep 10% hike. Hope his grandmother is okay! The recent “inflation” con continues, eh?

[@marklola12]

That looks like one of those from china for a few k

[@dougbeard7624]

You have to schedule a 30 minute (week day only) 'consulting' call in order to even think about buying one of these. What an archaic and unnecessary sales model. They just lost my business.

[@neilgillies6943]

Never trust anyone that doesn't know the correct way to wear a baseball cap.

[@chaucer44]

Still too expensive. Why pay twice the price though?? I have twice the machine for less than half the price. Get the chinese red black if you have space for it. Thunder uses the same exact chinese parts. I always recommend: kzbin.info/www/bejne/i5TOZnihmq-SaK8

[@makeorbreakshop]

Those are great options, OMTech now pretty much is the US supplier. I will say comparing a red and black (or blue in my case) to a Thunder the overall build quality is a step up with higher end electronics and laser tube.

[@TheRADboutiqueDotCom]

Maybe suggest to listeners and describe how to turn playback speed to .75. Purrrfect for me. Valuable information. Ty!!

[@rossm9200]

This machine is not "fast". 1000 mm/s is just under 40 in/sec. Epilog, for example, has been making lasers that can engrave at 75ips for 15 years. You can easily snag one used in good condition for $5k or less, often with a 40-50W tube. Obviously we're comparing new to used and there are some software features the used Epilog won't have (camera). But overall, I don't get why anyone would buy this when you can get a much better machine at the same price.

[@macscooby]

I’m new to the channel, was pretty interested, but after the 5th cut to whatever movie meme, I quit watching to type this. Cya.

[@karenmitchell6814]

I know! Why! Why do this? To prove you’ve seen a lot of movies???

[@johnanthony9923]

Oh yeah? Then you went to all of the other reviews of this laser? Oh, right. You realized (even months later) there are none and you should have checked that before whining.

[@makeorbreakshop]

Sometimes you just got to amuse yourself

[@jason2174]

I'm sure you will be missed.

[@adamhay5475]

didnt realize how passionate people were about being anti-2second cutaway lmao. get over it people

[@DobynsMedia]

Isn't this just a repurposed Chinese laser?

[@Neberheim]

The constant cuts to movie clips are distracting and annoying, especially at the beginning.

[@othoapproto9603]

WHAT 5K !!! There are many systems a quarter of that price. NEVER buy from someone who wears his hat backwards.

[@ericseidel4940]

SO that's a very expensive engraving machine, unable to cut, and with a specific RF laser that cost a lot to replace, without any compétition for the part. " A lot longer" is not scientific, I am pretty sure this laser tube will last very much a shorter time, because any new thing these days comes with a higher cost and a reduced lifespan BY DESIGN.

[@ThunderLaserUSA]

the rf tube can last 5~10 years and can be recharged/reused for around $1500US... dollar for dollar, cheaper than replacing typical glass tube dc excited co2 tubes

[@ThunderLaserUSA]

and it's a cutter as well. still testing organics but it cuts 18mm acrylic. kzbin.info/www/bejne/kIfPm4KXl755odU

[@derekwright2388]

Why are you saying unable to cut? He literally showed you a cutting test!

[@makeorbreakshop]

It totally can cut, I tried to show a few examples, I just emphasized engraving since that is where it really shines

[@makeorbreakshop]

Thanks for the real amounts, I was just going off of general stats I had seen.

[@johndoe6032]

It may be good, but I couldn’t see myself buying anything from that bro swearing on his granny’s grave. Yikes!

[@googleSux]

Please spare the endless filler clips. They are neither funny nor useful

[@MUFarmer]

You seem fun

[@kentgulley5259]

Talking too fast

[@debiweeks4548]

Can this machine cut 1/4” wood?