DLSS 3.5 - Better Pathtracing for Free

[@DillBee]

I am with AMD for their openness and linux compatibility. But I do get FOMO everytime I see NVIDIA release better tech and I need to wait for AMD to catch up

[@cyandrix]

If it helps, at least you know AMD will keep providing your aging hardware with fresh coats of paint, like with AMD's FSR. Nvidia ditching hardware older than their previous generation is whats going to keep me from using them in the future. Not everybody buys a new GPU every two years, Nvidea...

[@MrBrax]

And not only that, but amd tech works on nvidia gpus

[@bulutcagdas1071]

It's fine, only the 4090 or the 3090/4080 can really do this stuff anyway. At lower resolutions, ray tracing is really annoying with garbled artifacts. It's really going to take until the PS6 era of consoles where the mainstream GPU's can handle these workloads that it'll be standardized. So as it stands, its a nice little gimmick for 4090 owners. Not very representative of the remaining 95% of the user-base.

[@Sevastous]

Thats what nvidia wants you to think. FOMO as marketing. I am on my 3060 with dlss2 and let me tell you. I don't use it at all. only game I felt I needed Upscaling was Starfield. and boy FSR in that game implemented brilliantly. no artifacts at 1080p!

[@SweetFlexZ]

Always with the same, waiting for AMD to catch up and release their worse version of something that Nvidia released one or two years before... AMD has to develop their tech and try to compete, but with this mediocre mentality they will never compete, numbers speak for themselves.

[@ipodge1731]

I think Alan Wake 2 was made with ray tracing in mind because of how big the role of light and shadow is to the game's theme. Maybe you can check that out? It also uses DLSS 3.5 with ray reconstruction and everything.

[@PrefoX]

DF made already an excellent video about Alan Wake 2

[@pixelvahl]

@@2kliksphilip Alan Wake 2 actually has ray tracing always enabled. If you turn off all the RT settings in the menus, the game will switch to software ray tracing.

[@R3TR0J4N]

great thought, reminds me of Control

[@8304u]

@@pixelvahl thats crazy

[@GraveUypo]

@@8304u it's basically the same as unreal engine 5's lumen tech.

[@LCTesla]

1:23 I love how similar this looks to a picture taken from a DSLR at high ISO. Goes to show how accurately this technology mimics reality.

[@melonycarlson4093]

ISO just uses software to artificially brighten the image, which is why it results in a grainier noisier image, this isnt an artifact of reality but instead an artifact of the digitization of the image. You can also see the same artifact in basically any 3d modeling program when using lights, because they dont use denoisers to increase the render rate for the preview of the scene. A real-life equivalent to achieving a "semi-rendered" screenshot would be to take a picture at a shutter speed near the speed of light. This has actually been achieved in laboratory settings, as seen on the slomoguys video of light literally moving, but it doesnt result in noise from random rays of light hitting the lens, it instead results in an image that is almost completely black, aside from the singular spot where the photons from the light source travel directly towards the camera, as the camera records too quickly to collect information from scattered light.

[@thecuriousone1721]

dude your videos are so simple to understand it makes me feel smart

[@suprem1ty]

I love your deep dives into tech like this, you have such a good way of presenting the information!

[@rick_takahashi]

Well, this one is a paid promotion. So, chances are he's only showing the good aspects of Nvidia tech

[@Alovon]

Reallly think NVIDIA should rename their thing to like "NVIDIA DL-Game Enhancement Suite" With DLSS Super Resolution, NVIDIA Frame Generation, and DLSS Ray Reconstruction, NVIDIA Reflex, and heck, maybe even NVIDIA Image Scaling as the named features within it.

[@DeSinc]

small correction on 11:35, DLSS 3.5 does not always include all the parts, and older 20 and 30 series cards can run DLSS 3.5 with no access to frame generation. DLSS 3.5 refers as you said to the newest toolkit of DLSS options, including the new ray reconstruction all on 20 and 30 series GPUs, but only 40 series can turn on frame generation.

[@MegaAdeny]

Didn't take you for such a pedant considering your own videos' quality.

[@KingLich451]

​@@MegaAdeny💀

[@b4ttlemast0r]

DLSS 3.5 is a version of the dlss suite that includes all the dlss features, so there's a 3.5 version of the upscaling, a 3.5 version of the FG, and RR was introduced in 3.5. Some cards can't use all these features, but they're still using DLSS 3.5 even if they're just using the upscaling. It's Nvidia's fault that they made it so confusing by conflating the version numbers with the features.

[@qwertyrewtywyterty]

im surprised he got it wrong, not enough research on his end

[@HeroStrike]

THIS!

[@Legitti]

Upgraded recently to RTX 4080 laptop and the performance in all games is just insane.

[@gustavodutra3633]

Which laptop did you buy?

[@keatonwastaken]

How hot does it run lol, I last had a 1660ti laptop an that bastard would hit 80s after 20 minutes of gameplay.

[@ausar567]

​@@keatonwastakenmore powerful gpu generates less heat when doing the same thing compared to old gpus, 40 series is actually much better on power efficiency, albeit not much improvement on performance compared to the 30 series.

[@keatonwastaken]

@@ausar567 Applies to laptops too? Damn didn't know that. Legit got a smaller case and twin fan edition for my 4070, yet it never hits over 50 degrees. If laptops have reached a similar point, thats good news!

[@sid6645]

​@@keatonwastakenefficiency is always most impactful in laptops! Thats where you're capped by heat and power the most.

[@ricky_pigeon]

"better performance for free" for developers, not for players. it's put in game requirements now. funny how this turned out.

[@MaTtRoSiTy]

Honestly for all the hate on Nvidia, it is easy to forget the massive investments and advancements they are bringing to AI and gaming. Whether people like it or not, this is the way gaming and many industries are headed and Nvidia are way ahead

[@TheAlienpope]

The hate is targeted at the corporate part of nvidia. Their engineers are and always were heroes.

[@Rem_NL]

If it wasn't for corporate they would not greenlight the R&D cost assosiated with developing Tensor cores + supporting software. I give full props to Nvidia for pushing this tech. And taking the risks needed (because financially they surely can) And for AMD to make a public good instead of proprietary @@TheAlienpope

[@mirukuteea]

@@TheAlienpope But people always criticize nvidia as a single entity

[@TheAlienpope]

@@mirukuteea yeah. Main reason to why is probably because "I hate the leadership, market department and the corporate Nvidia!" doesn't really roll of the tongue as easily lol

[@Eleganttf2]

@@TheAlienpope tell that to the people who literally crucifies Nvidia as one and hatred with all of their thing

[@Zolbat]

What I find interesting is that I never liked sharpening on the monitor, but when I used it in VR (in DCS using reshade), it was an absolute game changer. Everything suddenly looked a lot more realistic and - well - sharper.

[@loutrepolemique5951]

It'd be really interesting if you could make a similar analysis in Alan Wake 2 which to me, seems like an overall better implementation of raytracing and ray reconstruction. Thanks for this video anyway, always a pleasure to watch your work !

[@TerraWare]

They put a lot of work implementing RT properly in AW2, even without RR RT looks really good

[@x0Fang0x]

@@TerraWare I mean with RT Off in settings it still uses software RT.

[@TerraWare]

@@x0Fang0x Right, they do

[@RicochetForce]

Yeah, Alan Wake 2 is not just using pathtracing. Even with 'RT Off" it's still using a software based path tracing model along with mesh shaders (primiitives) so it's always pretty heavy (especially for GPUs that don't support mesh shaders). That said, this is an Apples to Oranges comparison. Cyberpunk is a much faster paced game with far more active and demanding gameplay scenes than anything in Alan Wake 2. It's also an open world game with much longer draw distances.

[@LutraLovegood]

Really hope he does, and it seems likely after all his ray-tracing videos.

[@Simply_Jerry]

This is very exciting, just one more step towards full photorealistic games at playable fps.

[@JVCA44]

This is very exciting...... for filthy rich gamers

[@Grandmaster-Kush]

@@JVCA44 Why i'm skipping the 2000,3000,4000 and coming series until the tech is refined.

[@joemarais7683]

@@Grandmaster-Kushthe tech will never be refined for normal people. The 2060 super, 3060 and 4060 all perform the same. Nvidia has a hard performance target for what customers will receive for $300, and it’ll never be good enough to path trace. And if the 4060ti and 3060ti being the same thing is indicative of a trend, by the time path tracing is accessible only 80 class gpus will be able to do anyways, at probably a $2000 cost, as the lower end gpus will be stuck at a specific performance target.

[@allxtend4005]

Photorealistic games ? sorry but RayTracing is bullshit and it is kinda stupid if lightning and reflection cost you 200% of your normal Performance. Photorealistic can be done already and without RayTracing, the best will be if AMD and Nvidia and Intel will go the RayTracing card as extra and not implement it in to the GPU. So gpu's will be WAY cheaper and people can chose if they want to be the beta testers for this tech 20 or 30 years too late because RayTracing is a old tech in reality.

[@i_like_Peanuts]

Companies are not going to let go of 1080p anytime soon.. They are going to keep handicapping performance on **60 series/AMD equivalent cards to make them a '1080p beast' but not anything special for 1440p because it would be quite a loss for them as cheaper cards providing adequate performance at higher resolutions will drastically take away sales from higher end/priced cards.. So regardless, The 5060 will still be marketed for 1080p gaming/workloads whereas it should be able to run 1440p easily.. Edit : I absolutely want this to age badly and be proven wrong..

[@Soraviel]

This is absolutely insightful of the inner working of DLSS 3.5, great stuff bro.

[@packerman1203]

This game went from crysis pc melter meme to literal rendering sandbox. Its crazy how much the look of this game changed from release and with how much you can change it now. And its almost all lighting related

[@saricubra2867]

Cyberpunk 2077 has better art direction than Crysis by a lot.

[@vSoulreaver]

The one dealbreaker for me (at least in cyberpunk 2077 currently) is the oily upscaled oversharpened look. He even talks about this at 4:45

[@Rem_NL]

there is a slider to go from 0 to 1 with increments of .05 i think

[@CPSPD]

the one dealbreaker for me is the fact that AMD will never support this kind of stuff which means i cant use it :P

[@vSoulreaver]

@@CPSPD fair point lmao

[@vSoulreaver]

@@Rem_NL Yeah the sharpness slider really doesn't fix it.

[@Rem_NL]

Yeh its the Ray Regeneration that causes it, gives better texture quality and a more stable picture, but distant less lit objects smear. Only thing that would help is setting ray's to 1 and bounces to 3 or 4 and increase the base resolution. At 4k base i can do with 2 rays 2 bounces and it looks ok for most part. @@vSoulreaver

[@_KOANS]

I'm playing on a 4070 with path tracing. When I use dlss 3.5 the reflections and qualities are definitely better, but very ghosty. Without RR the quality is slightly less clear, but DRAMATICALLY less blurring. I've been playing PL without 3.5 because the ghosting is just too much. Hopefully this can be fixed soon as most people simply don't use it. Very informative and great video.

[@Scorch052]

I appreciate that you took the time to point out that while the path tracing and ray tracing methods available can certainly look superior, they may obstruct the thematic tone or style artists are trying to convey, as I think that's going to be a difficult line for devs to walk until everything is completely compatible with that tech.

[@Flutters_Shygal]

I did always wonder where the ghosting came from when I played this game. And what happened to the shadows further away. I've always played with raytracing on, because it's basically THE game to play with it. Now I know why that was happening.

[@ALaz502]

​@@overdark33nope. Ray Reconstruction adds a fuckton of ghosting. Besides, TAA turns off when DLSS is on anyway since DLSS replaces the AA implementation. Having said that, it also makes rainy night look completely pristine. That's where it really shines.

[@roamn4979]

@@overdark33 When you turn on dlss, taa is being replaced by dlaa.

[@Meinhardt.Erschwans]

Ray reconstruction is getting rid of some of the ghosting, but is adding a lot of new

[@arghpee]

one of the most serious toned videos 2kliksphilip has put out and i love it

[@donaldslayer]

Well, he said at the start it’s paid promotion for nVidia.

[@hi_its_jerry]

i would love to see a game like kena: bridge of spirits, or a kingdom hearts game with full on path-tracing and RR. i think it would fit the visuals really well as these types of games tend to go for the offline cg render look

[@x0Fang0x]

oh, Kena definitely. it already looks good without RT and now imaging it with path tracing would be awesome.

[@Chilledoutredhead]

Omg yes Kena is such a great game with great colours

[@mememe37]

That was the best "ad" I've seen in a long time, thanks for the vid!

[@jacksonwyse7524]

who is ray and why are we reconstructing him?

[@cocobos]

Man, this video is so good. The in-depth is so much better than any other video I've seen! I just found your channel! Easy subscribe!

[@perhapsyes2493]

One interesting aspect is that you can enable Ray Reconstruction (through config file edits) even when not using the proper PATH tracing - just Ray Tracing. It offers a big quality bump, without having to run full Path tracing. Yes, there are some artifacts. Worth it imho.

[@computersandkeyboards]

"We can have things like that now", yeah right, maybe for people with infinite budget

[@jamesmachinn6356]

Just Install the infinity money mod

[@iSmartMan1]

The Talos Principle 2 releases tomorrow, and I hope you're as excited for it as I am.

[@Kill4play]

I'm glad you're still making videos 2kP!

[@evolvedSpoiler34]

Pathtracing without denoiser is pretty much how I see irl, except it's less noticeable. Just like pathtracing, it becomes more obvious in dark. People with visual snow syndrome would understand exactly what I mean.

[@realflow100]

Wow that sounds infuriating. I can't see any visual snow no matter how hard I try to look for or notice it even in the most extreme cases. its almost completely imperceptible even when I wake up in the middle of the night in a pitch dark room and try to look out at the night sky and stars at night. and after just a minute i can't notice even the most miniscule insignificant amount of "visual snow" at all anymore. It just looks like black hole void of nothing when i close my eyes in a dark room

[@dave7474]

THATS WHAT THIS IS CALLED?

[@KillahMate]

A note regarding Control, the developer who made the HDR mod for Control has also added in it a high fidelity option for ray tracing which doubles the number of rays, halving performance but reducing noise significantly - and also he's not opposed to adding DLSS 3.5 support as well but _first_ someone would need to donate him a 4000 series card to work on that... in case anyone has a spare RTX 4000 card laying around 😐

[@Stef3m]

Can you post the link to him asking for a RTX 40?

[@KillahMate]

@@Stef3m He didn't ask for an RTX 40 - he just said (on the mod's official page on PCGamingWiki, not sure if I can post links on KZbin) that if he had an RTX 40 card available he'd feel obligated to try adding ray reconstruction, but since he doesn't it's not something worth investigating.

[@Stef3m]

@@KillahMate Can you provide the link? I guess is time to send him a 4090, I know his name and the address of Remedy is easy to find

[@maciej3262]

Why he needs 4000 series for it? 3.5 and RR is supported on all RTX cards. Unless he is speaking about Frame Generation only.

[@KillahMate]

@@Stef3m I'm sorry, I literally can't - KZbin seems to be deleting all of my attempts to reply. But it's filoppi's HDR Patch on the PC Gaming Wiki - he talks about this on page 10 of the comments there. Please don't send anything without letting them know first!

[@Rossco1337]

thanks for posting this, especially showing all of the artifacts that come with RT and upscaling. people look at me like i'm crazy when i tell them i don't want to play my games with ghosting, tiny black bugs on every surface or noisy shadows which pop-in as you walk up to them. now i have a concise reference to show them exactly what i mean. playing portal rtx for myself has changed my mind on the technology. it's certainly not worth the 98-99% reduction in framerate in older games like quake 2 and portal without more major improvements like this. as you showed with your comparisons, it definitely makes screenshots look more realistic but it detracts from the intended experience - even on a $2000 USD graphics card. RTX branding is 5 years old now and it feels like there's only one desktop graphics card which is even remotely close to making the technology worth the development time.

[@Pawn2e4]

I wouldn't have known this was a sponsored video if you didn't mention it. That's a good thing, well done!

[@mrhappytroll]

oh this is COOL, I just watched the RTX video on dying light 2, and it got me really excited for what raytracing does, because I just purchased a 4080 Super, but now seeing that the technology has also improved its performance and clarity?! Im even more excited!!

[@Sevastous]

Dennis's blog on Teardown shows how important when it comes to natural path tracing implementetions and burden of denoisers in general

[@iKyroja]

I really really appreciate that you mention directly that this is a sponsored video and you are one of the few creators I trust still being honest.

[@Catzzye]

Very impressive.. From earlier 3.5 examples, it didn’t seem like such a big deal, but this is substsntial imo. Great showcase!!

[@LordOfRedMountain]

>Philip posts video >Day gets a little bit better :)

[@randomyoutubeuser8509]

Am I the only one that loves when Phillip uploads a computer graphics video

[@HaasTheFirst]

Yes, you are the only one!

[@zangl2955]

Yes. I don’t care about graphics because every time I play a new game I get bored and play donkey kong country instead.

[@bod9001a]

honestly if the noise was more stable, it wouldn't look too bad

[@LukeFlegg]

Wow this is impressively thorough. Really apprecaite it, thanks

[@feflechi]

Excellent video ! Rendering tech is fascinating, even if you're not into video games.

[@saleh3521]

4:57 what did he mean by that? How do you reduce it? Is it alongside setting the sharpness to 0 you render at a higher res? Am i correct? And i didnt quite understand him, is that a drawback of RR? ray tracing? DLSS (upscaling part)? The game as a whole? I dont get it. Where does the "smoothed but sharpened" image come from? How can you get the ultimate image with no drawbacks? I know this is a sponsored vid, but it would have been nice to learn more about RR. Since its the most confusing part of DLSS due to it being a black box.

[@AlexGreen1991]

It's nice but, game devs need to understand that not every reflecting surface reflects like a mirror.2:47 that's just way too much.

[@ilcarlino752]

I am pretty sure they know enough.

[@lanata64]

the fact that this shit exists is insane. i remember getting a new 2060 in 2021, amazed at how i could now render my blender scenes in 10 minutes instead of 2 hours on my CPU. not even 3 years later, the hardware and software has improved so much that scenes of even higher complexity are now getting rendered in real-time. insane. THIS is the kind of AI that I'm excited for ― ones that make complex lighting and rendering techniques more accessible to artists. opening up more options for creativity, as opposed to removing creativity.

[@rikoshet6079]

How do you enable raw path tracing mode ?

[@killazaawl]

it's 2023 and we still didn't manage to make a button to switch eye adaptation effects off mandatory

[@GreatMossWater]

Kiroshi needs a new model!

[@ckosmic]

This is impressive, it helps with a lot of the issues I noticed when playing cyberpunk originally with rt

[@Zippy_Zolton]

the absolute bitrate killer at 1:04 started making the video stutter and buffer in a way I've never heard before and I thought it was an intentional editing choice

[@Vexcenot]

the irony of showing milliseconds on a seizure warning count down

[@Shopwood100]

The more technical videos I see of pathtracing/ raytracing, the more impressive I find old-style rasterization. I appreciate it takes a significant amount of time for developers to create scenes with the correct lighting, and that raytracing offers the possibility of more rapidly creating a realistically lit environment, but in so many of these comparisons I really don't find raytracing to look very much better than rasterized graphics.

[@BasePuma4007]

Some games show how good ray tracing can be if the game is developed/uodated to only use ray tracing as its lighting solution. (Metro Exodus ED, Cyberpunk with overdrive)

[@966Ranger]

Are we finally getting mirrors back in modern games 😳

[@mediumplayer1]

We really did go full circle.

[@-Burb]

Not in cyberpunk for some reason, literally everything has beautiful reflections with path tracing on EXCEPT the mirrors you can customize your character at which I thought was pretty funny.

[@xXBlackxMoonXx1]

EDIT 1: mess around with DLSS tweaker and adaptive PT for better results ;) EDIT 2: I managed to reduce the noise by making the sharpness 0 and DLDSR smoothness 100 while using DLSS I don't know how you didn't notice RR's biggest flaw which is oily streets (especially outside Dogtown) and noisy lighting on character models while using DLSS upscale no matter the quality of it, it's the biggest turn off for me because you spend most of the time talking to characters and driving/walking around. Best thing to do for me at least for now is using FSR 2 (since it's a post processor and doesn't ruin the quality of PT) + PT with no RR. Also maybe because I'm using DLDSR, it's not behaving well with RR, but I did notice it too on my native resolution (1080p). Sadly RR isn't perfect for now, so pick your poison.

[@marosis99]

it's sponsored so he can't say bad things about RR . It's just a business

[@xXBlackxMoonXx1]

@@marosis99 Oooooh I didn't notice my bad lol.

[@NukeMyHouse]

RT Psycho does not add more rays to the existing effects; rather, it simply adds one more RT effect, which is a single light bounce from the sun/moon direct lighting.

[@drx95117]

Thank you for the explanation. This has benefited me a lot

[@TheRedRanger123]

Well your overview at 11:20 is strange and/or wrong. "3.5" is just a version number. Both DLSS 2 and DLSS 3 Frame Generation are available at version "3.5".

[@Dylan_Archer]

Great video, very well explained!

[@_gamma.]

The ghost blobs after moving objects on screen were very immersion breaking, like UE’s screen space reflections that reflect your hands on distant lakes etc. glad that’s gone!

[@SilverSai]

GET THAT BAG PHILIP

[@cheaterman49]

Well deserved sponsorship from both parties IMHO! You obviously deserve it for all the amazing things you do, but Nvidia (I'd argue "for once") also deserves it for managing to ship a technology that stands up to _your_ level of scrutiny, very good match :-)

[@GrainGrown]

*NVIDIA, all caps

[@cheaterman49]

@@GrainGrown *Nvidia Corporation, also who cares

[@GrainGrown]

@@cheaterman49 It's written in all caps.

[@GrainGrown]

@@cheaterman49 Like you low life pos would know anything.

[@GrainGrown]

@@cheaterman49 No one cares about your silly ass either, simpleton.

[@calmkat9032]

That non-de-noised image is a cool effect for radioactivity. Could you imagine an RTX remix of Fallout 3 or New Vegas that does that?

[@NrdCool]

This was useful for understanding the technology. Thank you.

[@NickGhale]

No, RTX3060 supports DLSS 3.5 but doesn’t have frame gen. So it’s incorrect to say that DLSS 3.5 means all features are included, since frame gen isn’t on a RTX3060

[@mariozenarju6461]

I do strongly believe 0 sharpness is the way for the best naturally looking image. When you remove it from both FSR and DLSS in comparisons, they look nearly identical

[@MrXaniss]

I don't mind some visual noise and a little ghosting in a single player game, but before DLSS 3.5 it was WAY too much, especially in some areas where it was like a disco.

[@ipressdatofu]

Excellent video! Please do more.

[@baspastar868]

My question is why would u use this instead of set lightning, isn't way more cinematic when the developers decide the lightning of a scene?

[@user-iw4fq9ml1r]

Kliks "take a look at these plants" philip

[@KingLich451]

Take a closer look at that snout!

[@Katze822228]

I never played a game with raytracing on myself and I wasn't even aware of all the issues and artifacts with raytracing that ray reconstruction solves. But now knowing of all these issues makes me want to try ray tracing even less because with DLSS 3.5 you're foreced to upscale which comes with it's own issues and artifacts. I feel just normal rasterization without any upscaling is still superior, even if the lighting looks a bit worse.

[@workoutandread]

Thanks for the ad, was worth watching /s

[@Gadottinho]

The way you do it is blurring the image or other denoise tech and you do a mask of the detail, and then apply the denoise on the inverted mask

[@Djoki1]

Raw path tracing looks as if you were recording The Elephant's Foot aka the most radioactive object in the world from like 50cm away.

[@Duraltia]

Sat out 7 years of CPU and GPU Upgrades until I recently made the switch from an i9 9900KF / GTX 1080 Ti combo to a now i9 13900KF / RTX 4090 one... Cost me about an arm and a leg ( new MB, new RAM, new PSU, new AIO Cooler, etc... ) but man was it worth it... Playing Cyberpunk 2077 in its full glory was a treat as is playing any other game I skipped during that time that would have required an RTX Card to shine in their full glory...

[@Duraltia]

@@2kliksphilip Yea, but the GTX 1080 Ti was 7 years and this being a discussion about Graphics I'd argue it being the more relevant component over say the CPU despite me lumping the two together to explain the jump in performance I've experienced.

[@RMJ1984]

8:16 Is there any reason why ray tracing couldn't light this area better if it was implemented better?

[@jcm2606]

Performance. To get that same lighting under raytracing you'd need three separate passes: raytraced ambient occlusion, raytraced global illumination, raytraced area lighting. You _could_ do it all under global illumination but to do so you'd need to let rays travel an "unlimited" distance (at least until they escape the scene and head into the sky) to be able to do sky lighting and you'd need to have some form of next event estimation to directly sample area lights, both of which are inching your global illumination pass closer to path tracing without the other benefits of path tracing. On the flip side, path tracing is able to naturally produce this lighting since it combines ambient occlusion, global illumination and area lighting into a single, more efficient pass. Funnily enough this is the reason why path tracing is even a thing, it's an optimisation for classic recursive raytracing.

[@krich451]

Fizzing is a really good word to describe that.

[@Cactar8]

10:40 i think this was also a problem with TAA in games and i have always wanted a way to fix it man that is crazy

[@yoimsecond]

i love when you make videos like this

[@wizzenberry]

How does spiderman 2s rt cover miles of glass on a non nvidia gpu with no ghosting? While moving fast.. On a 10tflops gpu with minimal matrix ops.

[@Cruzz999]

Wait. I was watching this, because it's a 2kliksphilip video, but I didn't think I could use it, with DLSS 3 not being available on 30 series cards. But I can use 3.5 on a 3080? Or am I misunderstanding this?

[@BottomOfTheDumpsterFire]

Yep Nvidia was terrible about their naming scheme. DLSS 3 is not DLSS 3.5 and neither are DLSS 2. 3.5 is Ray Reconstruction, 3 is Frame Generation, 2 is Upscaling.

[@Cruzz999]

@@2kliksphilip That is genuinely excellent, the naming scheme is frankly bonkers, but I'm always glad to be able to play around with new tech, especially when it wasn't expected.

[@jonathonschott]

@2kilksphilip, i remember the launch of the 20 series and i was under the impression that the inclusion of the tensor cores was for the purpose of de-noising and that dlss upscaling was an added bonus, but you seem to imply that this is the first use of the tensor cores for denoising as opposed to just an upgrade to the algorithm......... Im confused.........?

[@jonathonschott]

@@2kliksphilip so I went back and looked, Nvidia only stated they were still working on ai denoising when turning was announced, that was my confusion, I seem to remember them making a bigger deal about it than I could find. This whole time I've thought that's what their intended purpose was and that dlss was just an added bonus because they were already there, if the cuda cores are having to do both raster and denoise that would certainly explain the additional burden of 'rtx on' on turning, among others obviously. Thank you for your response, I recently found you and will definitely stick around, any content creator who inspires me to assign myself homework is certainly worth their weight in salt, and you play counterstrike, a game I started on around 1.4/1.5, so you also have good taste

[@tim.creenis]

This is the best ad I've ever seen

[@qwertyui4526]

Why no one sees that the mirror reflections in cut down? I mean for example put a car in front of a glass house, in the reflection will be a car with reduced LOD and low resolution textures.

[@slopedarmor]

path tracing doesnt work yet with transparent objects i think, like reflections on windows or wineglasses. path traced reflections only work on reflective textures basically, like water puddles, fake windows and car bodies. these reflections do look proper.

[@qwertyui4526]

@@slopedarmor Then why in Portal RTX on transparent glass are the reflections correct, with all the details and shadows etc? How does the path tracing in NVIDIA Remix differ from the path tracing in Cyberpunk 2077?

[@slopedarmor]

@qwertyui4526 i dunno, i just heard digitalfoundry say that in 1 of their cp videos. In 1 of their examples, theres a completely dark room in cp but the wineglasses still glow.

[@slopedarmor]

@qwertyui4526 maybe its just harder to notice the difference in portal reflections because the rasterized lighting in the reflections is already close enough to the pathtraced lighting in that small and simple game? I have no idea.

[@alistermunro7090]

Great video, fantastic tech and where's the cat? Oh wait that's the other guy...

[@harlster4163]

What exactly to I put the settings to for the best raytracing pathtracing ray reconstruction?? Whatever the best looking one is, too many settings.

[@lamarmottedesinternets5134]

It's called DLSS 3.5 because it's a chronological addition to the "dlss package" that way, games can display their "dlss version" to players, and we instantly understand what set of features are supported out of the "package"

[@Jack2421992]

7:16 is actually SSR (Screen Space Reflection) I always hated it. In many FPS games suffer from unbelievable reflections of your gun in the open seas. And when you tilt to a certain angle, reflections/shadows somehow stopped showing.

[@nixel1324]

I agree, personally I often prefer _no_ reflections over SSR. I've gone as far as to install mods to disable SSR for some games.

[@shulehr]

the visual noise is exactly how our eyes see the world, can't see the any problem with that.

[@combat.wombat]

I understand why you didn't do it here but a comparison to AMD denoising would be great in another video.

[@roamn4979]

AMD's denoising should look the same as pathtracing with RR off, since they haven't yet released their own denoiser and the alternative is using the game's denoiser which is used in all the ray traced frames without RR.

[@Veptis]

Thr original intel XeSS research paper hada upscaling (and AA) section as well as a denoising part. Meaning Intel sorta developped dlss 3.5 in the first place. But they never implemented it as a product. Intel has a library called Open Image Denoising (OIDN), which uses a cascade of CNNs (U net) to denoise path traced renders. It's not meant to run in real time like games but offline (not real time) renders for modelling and architecture or filmmaking.

[@LvxGoW]

Okay but this didn't answer my most important question. Who is Ray and what is he tracing?

[@elijahjagne6462]

No no no, Ray died, we trace him. It's in our job description

[@LatteLobster]

After getting a quarter of the way into this video, I realized this isn't the sort of thing you can watch at 480p.

[@Knightfire66]

noise was the main issue with raytracing. I am glad that this fixes it. so 3.5 is not a 40xx gpu thing? also the 20xx and 30xx gpu could do that? what about ultra mode for frame generation on 40xx cards? do we really need that or is it still fine to buy 30xx cards? (for QHD gaming)

[@slopedarmor]

dlss 3.5 only features frame generation on 40 series cards. no framegen on older gens.

[@forbiddentictactoe1734]

I really hope nvidia paid you well for this. You absolutely deserve it for not doing cs gambling site promotions instead.

[@GrainGrown]

*NVIDIA, all caps

[@jonathanst89]

I've noticed it in a few games and never said anything about it, or really let it bother me but here lately it seems bad in cyberpunk. What in the world is the ghosting on every moving object? Such as when you're driving a car in 3rd person. Behind the car is a ghost of the cars back end. When traffic is driving by, etc. I've always looked at this as a game engine issue, is that accurate?

[@kadebass6187]

One of the things ray/path tracing should do in the future is 1. Reduce game size 2. Reduce dev time 3. As it already does, improve visuals

[@verebellus]

The non digital sharpness of nonrt mixed with the lighting of rt would be perfect

[@0x20pirate]

There's something extremely funny about zooming way in on a reflective table "hey look we eliminated some weird lines on a reflection!" where next to it an NPC's arm is fully clipping through a stack of 1995 Pixar-looking coffee cups that are also levitating above the table. V I S U A L F I D E L I T Y

[@cy9nvs]

Weird, for me, RR makes ghosting MUCH worse when drawing a weapon or driving in a car. Does it not work properly on 3000 series cards? Because I turned it off, the image quality takes a huge hit with it enabled, seen other people experience the same thing on forums.

[@Rem_NL]

There is for sure some dodgy stuff going on. It doesn't seem to work wel in the current build (2.02)

[@Mugnum_]

Perhaps it's something to do with the framerate, so at lower fps RR would need more time to catch up? Just a thought

[@cy9nvs]

@@Mugnum_ I'm getting pretty stable 60 FPS most of the time, using Quality DLSS on 1440p.

[@odysseas4os]

13:05 Except non-Nvidia users of other vendors who won't be allowed to use their proprietary technology and will have to develop and implement their own alternatives in every game as ray-tracing becomes "StAnDaRd" and games become designed around it. BOY i can't wait for every game to LOOK and preform differently on every vendor, this is sure to be a good thing for the industry, "interoperability"? "direct comparisons"? who needs those? no no no i want to be locked in an "ecosystem" where basic features the game *relys* on to look good are held from me unless i buy the "correct" hardware! WHAT A BRIGHT FUTURE!

[@Creepernom]

What is the solution, though? This tech relies on Nvidia's own unique hardware. Is Nvidia supposed to stop innovation just to wait for the others to catch up? I don't really see any way to solve this issue. Games are already getting designed around RT, for example The Finals.

[@odysseas4os]

@@Creepernom What a bluepilled sheeple take, was PhysX innovation that relied on Nvidia's own unique hardware? No, yet only Nvidia could run it, Why? because it was proprietary closed source software. This very channel has a video named "Nvidia, stop being a DICK" that's very relevant here, but i guess being a dick is fine if the tech is impressive enough. I'm sitting here trying to think what i could say to get through to you but i honestly don't know. Innovation doesn't have to be exclusive, computers are a platform built on open standards that everyone can use and improve, Nvidia should not be allowed to choose and set standards for the industry by itself (especially if said "standards" are proprietary). Look at Chrome, because its what everyone uses Google gets to decide what standards *exist* unilaterally. Recently google snubbed the JPEG XL format in favor of its own AVIF format even though JXL is objectively superior at what it does in nearly every measurable way and offers unique features that are better suited to an image format. Ultimately Google's motivations behind the decision don't matter, its not up to debate, Google just gets to decide because they have a monopoly. The fact that every other corporation that cared disagreed with them is irrelevant, if Google doesn't support it, it doesn't get to exist. Can you imagine if Nvidia could just decide that Vulcan doesn't get to exist by just deciding to not support it? or maybe some innovative Unreal 5 feature that in any way competed with one of their own features just doesn't get to exist? Now you might say what does this have to do with Ray Reconstruction? it has to do with it being part of a Monopolistic ecosystem that locks people in. If the content people want looks best only within the ecosystem people go in and once enough people are in they can start to take increasingly brazen anti-consumer decisions because there is no real alternative.

[@coloradoing9172]

"Wah wah I'm an AMD crybaby, let's stop using the amazing new technology to accommodate my needs."

[@odysseas4os]

"This tech relies on Nvidia's own unique hardware" yeah just like PhysX "relied" on their "unique hardware", oh wait it didn't did it? and what happened to PhysX in the long run? it basically stayed a tech demo that was only rarely implemented in games sponsored by Nvidia all the way until it was obsolete, hmm... To the second guy i don't really understand what argument you're trying to make, i'm not arguing that ray-tracing is bad and shouldn't be used because AMD runs it worse, i'm arguing that locking it down with proprietary implementations is bad for the industry. Having three versions of every feature that are just different enough to not be IP infringement and all preform and look different isn't good for anyone and developers just like with PhysX are simply going to use the options available to everyone like Lumen by default which isn't even hardware accelerated and preforms worse for it, and then have a toggle for every vendor that pays them, to which i imagine your opinion is "Thank god hardware acceleration isn't standard across vendors, then i wouldn't be able to justify my parasocial attachment to a multi-trillion dollar company to myself".

[@coloradoing9172]

@@odysseas4os Nvidia invested billions of dollars in a technology, then spent years perfecting it, and now you want them to "share" what makes their cards unique to their competitors? DLSS and FSR are not going to be difficult to implement since game engines will be built around using them. Both options will be available in most titles. It would be wonderful if everything were available under an open-source licence, but it's a business in a brutal industry with tight competition, not a charity.

[@6Twisted]

I know it's technically wrong but I still prefer the old hard shadows and SSAO. Fully ray traced shadows look a bit flat.