3 Alternatives to the Melta Rifle for the Discerning Astartes

[@TrueVanguard]

What's your favorite Melta replacement? Join the PATREON group here: patreon.com/user?u=83518521&Link Once you join, link up your Discord and you'll be granted access to the private Space Marine rooms. Message me with any questions on Patreon.

[@TheHazmate]

The occulus bolt carbine (jk its doggo) INSTIGATOR

[@StrixNebulosa_mk1]

@@TrueVanguard a multi melta.

[@nightshadeii9248]

The Melta’s biggest benefit isn’t its mob clearing capabilities…it’s the ability to stun and interrupt Majoris reinforcement call on first shot. That’s why the Melta is so good.

[@thedarksideofthemoon4227]

Exactly. Remove that and it's an average weapon with decent close range damage but awful against anything at a distance/flying

[@Dark_Tesla]

To me it’s the contested health restoration. I never mag dump if more than 2 majoris are present, unless I can hit ALL of them at once.

[@Dark_Tesla]

@@thedarksideofthemoon4227 it’s SUPER SHIT on bosses too

[@nightshadeii9248]

@@Dark_Tesla good point!

[@thedarksideofthemoon4227]

@@Dark_Tesla exactly, imo tacticals should NEVER run it for this reason alone

[@connorjensen9699]

I think its worth noting that TV is pretty much always talking about max level high difficulty rating games. Meltas universally are pretty strong out of the gate - you can be level one with minimal game experience and absolutely dish out the damage with a melta. Meanwhile a lot of these other weapons aren't really good till purple tier, or like the grenade launcher rely on a perk that doesn't unlock until as late as row three of the perks. But that's not really the context TV is speaking in.

[@judgmenthammer5254]

The reason the heavy plas is not #1 is because you can have a team mate run through you, and eat the plasma round, and it does NOTHING. The GL nades go THROUGH teammates. Otherwise, Plas is easily the 2nd best weapon in the game.

[@SSC604]

Nope the multi-melta outshines the heavy plasma in pretty much everyway unless you're fighting the helldrake. Better crowd control, better health sustain, no overheating, better ammo economy, can stun-lock extremis and it allows you to use the 20% health perk making you way tankier.

[@exeverrr]

This is really annoying, it happens so often. It even says something about friendly fire when there is none. My biggest gripe with plasma so far, charging it and it lands on teammates shoulder. As if it wasnt already painful with a controller when things move/dodge a lot.

[@kingz8075]

​@SSC604 range the plasma gets. You can melt a horde of enemies before the arrive especially Majors.

[@SSC604]

@@kingz8075 Why would you want to stay at range when he's strongest up close? You get buffs for finishers Tanky, high damage, front liner.

[@BastiatC]

@SSC604 plasma has the advantage of coverage. MM is a beast in close ange, but struggles outside that. If you're in a mission with an open map, or with a melee focused team you should be taking plasma to take advantage of that. People not doing so is why we have crying about Zoes

[@DropbearDrops]

Keep these coming. I don’t have the game yet but when I get it I want ALL this info!

[@DavisXero]

Honestly the best weapon in the game is your parry ability. I can stand around dozens of minors and eight majors and just keep parrying until they are all dead. I consistently get last man standing and rez both teammates because I’ve practiced parrying

[@swamp-puppy14]

Agreed, though getting rezzes off when you’re holding off a mob of 6+ majoris is tough to do.

[@anaveragenightlordsfan]

Until the range enemies appear.

[@definitelyadarkangel9225]

I agree really good parrying turns this game into a snoozefest. but I also put forth a problem. Thousand sons. Tbf I haven't practiced against them nearly as much but the majoris not clearing out all the tzangors makes parrying less sustainable in those situations.

[@yaacheese8643]

It gets boring fast af just getting swarmed and parrying, but definitely needed once in a while.

[@plineowissman7624]

Cool, what do you do when two zoanthropes show up on top of that, or three chaos flamers show up spamming teleport with red attacks? Do you have fun with that? Do you feel good?

[@locsmiths]

I wish they gave the vanguard the stalker! Especially for lethal!

[@porkerpete7722]

Or the SMG, its a close ranged build.

[@locsmiths]

@@porkerpete7722 I'd take both. Lol I play vanguard by softening people up with guns before picking out the weak ones in melee.

[@ch4osaeternum74]

​@porkerpete7722 well the occulus is technically their smg. Just unfortunately for a unique class weapon it has nothing going for it to stand out.

[@H2ORaccoon]

​@@ch4osaeternum74 Occulus needs a buff in the biggest way

[@ch4osaeternum74]

@H2ORaccoon I agree. All bolters could go for a buff. I think the sweet spot is around 10 shots average to kill warriors. Minoris enemies should just die with 2 body shots.

[@hknova683]

Finger crossed that we get a big bolter buff with this week balance patch

[@sysrich]

The Oculus Bolt Carbine is 'trash' if you use it like a gun If you use it like a melee weapon, I find it tears down majoris faster than actual Vanguard melee weapons - grapple in, get your 25% damage bonus, unload in the mobs face, melee finisher (which reloads ready for the next one) No need to spec it for accuracy/spread/etc at that range..and it has somewhat secondary utility as a high ammo cost spray-and-pray mob clearer, especially as _any_ finisher will reload it. It's no Melta but it gives a second or two of breathing room for refocusing on melee. The instigator is my favourite all-rounder on Vanguard, leaving the Melta pretty much pidgeon-holed in its add-clearing shotgun

[@paulomarciosubtil2291]

interesting. never tried that

[@Slurps6969]

That’s a good point, going to level that next. Thanks for the tip

[@Shinobithechump]

The Stalker just got a single mention!!! 😳 it’s game breaking good for tactical! The Heavy Bolter for Heavy is heavily under utilised, it’s seriously good.

[@bethanyjohnston7891]

Little surprised you did not mention the Plasma Incinerator for the Tac, instead going with Rifle w/grenade and putting the Auto and Heavy Auto as two separate picks rather than putting them together since they are largely interchangeable. Do you I guess, but I understand wanting to focus on the Bolt round bonuses of the Tac, as that class is a bit.... focused, shall we say.

[@TheWickerChad]

The carbines can help pick off majoris members and sever from trash mobs. Sniper also shares the carbine and its longer range equivalents, but not the vanguard variants (nfi why) It also grabs the attention of melee majoris who always wind up with a leaping melee opening up for an easy melee/pistol shot. That opens up snipers / heavies / assault for attacks that are normally interrupted by the melee majoris and instead wipe out trash mobs.. incl all the majoris enemies that you just pissed off if you pick a fight with one

[@umadachi]

you'll pry my melta from my melted dead hands

[@SSC604]

It doesn't take 6 shots of a multi-melta to take down any majoris, it takes 4. After you use a finisher on the first one, every other majoris is 3 shots because of the damage buff. You also get a fire rate buff which makes those 3 shots take about 1 second. I personally think the multi-melta is best heavy weapon. It has better sustain, better stagger, you can pop your shield and just stand in front of zoans (down in 5 shots), stand in front of neuros and kill them in about 20s, the ammo economy is better, you can use the 20% health perk making you tankier. MM > HPI > HB

[@Bigborian92783]

Yea i agree. Heavy with multimelta is the way to go. I love my multimelta in chaos missions especially

[@Tazza19931]

As Tactical, I also love using the Bolt Carbine, Ophelian Libersation Marksman varient at relic tier. Though I guess that's more of a single-target damage option.

[@Ozymandias_SofaBear]

Once again, thank you for this video. Once again, in all sense & logic, I agree with your points. I main the Assault & the Vanguard. I wanted to play the Tactical but I can't. Perhaps because of youtubers like you, 80% of games I get into has a Tactical. I'm not allowed to play the Tactical. Ok? Got it? It's not that I don't like the Tactical. It's that almost everyone mains the Tactical. So guess what... I'll play the Heavy if Assault or Vanguard is taken.

[@Snowfreak357]

6:38 I love the heavy bolt, feels so good to use

[@Snowfreak357]

8:41 I tried your heavy bolt built, helped me a lot!

[@garstone188]

Thanks for the video TV!

[@dredgen0268]

I’m a Heavy main, and man I was a multi melta strictly. But I got the heavy plasma leveled up and damn it slaps. Same with the tactical, until I tried the stalker bolt.

[@nohvis4435]

Why feel like an Astartes if you can feel like a Cadian lol

[@TrueVanguard]

displaced and homeless? lol

[@EKk8819]

ALl plasma weapons are INSANE, it takes 3 fully charged shots with the pistol alone to kill majoris on lethal, the rifle and heavy are just even stronger versions.

[@WorldGoods]

The vanguard would be pretty interesting with something like a plasma option as well as melta

[@ZKForbiddenParadise]

The problem is that, if you take huge health damage, like 50%+ (which is the case in ruthless and lethal) you’ll never recover it fully if you’re not using melta or the grenade launcher

[@jaredevans1985]

I am excited to finish leveling my Instigator Bolt Carbine, but I think the Melta will always be my Ruthless comfort blanket 😆

[@jammin1881]

I maxed all guns in ruthless. The grenade launcher eats it. The empa vengeance perk and nade launcher is just cheating. 🤣

[@Bigborian92783]

​@@jammin1881it does, but op is talking about vangaurd since he mentioned instigator bolt rifle which is only on vangaurd

[@willvanauger3273]

im not saying that the oculus bolt carbine is amazing, but i really dont think its as bad as people say. I firmly believe its main issue is just that bolt weapons in general arent fantastic and it does lower per shot damage and is inaccurate. But its best use is to grapple in close to a warrior, mag dump it into its head and execute. when every shot is a headshot at short range it does rack up damage quickly.

[@absolutejimbo677]

I believe what makes the melta/Plasma truly the best weapons is their stuns/staggers against majoris enemies in a game where health regeneration is so scarse damage prevention is the way to go and there no better way to do that than stuns and staggers. They really need to let standard bolter weaponry stagger enemies they just feel like they can't compare to these two types of weaponry. Bonus mention to the lasrifle being the best sniper cuz it was penetration and stagger

[@jammin1881]

I have all classes maxed and now all guns at relic. The WORST was by far the vanguard assault rifle the occulus carbine. The smg type on the sniper and tac wasn't that bad. Compared to the occulus ..... They are better. I struggled with the heavy bolter till purple and the occ bc.

[@Betoni]

I recently started using Bulwark (i know not the topic of the video) and using the plasma pistol and noticed that unlike with any other character so far i'm now being interrupted during gun strikes and 50% of the time my gunstrike simply doesnt fire, the gun just lets out this wet fart sound. Is it supposed to be this way?

[@MatthewDewitt-gv8wy]

Heavy plasma, been clapping chaos forces like crazy.

[@davemalone7006]

Hot take, all pistol types should available to all classes, or at least unlockable for all classes as they level up.

[@The-Stone-Lion]

Surprised there was no plasma mention for tactical. AoE, damages blocking warriors, great stagger, solid damage and benefits hugely from the ammo refund perk.

[@EKk8819]

Boltrifle with GL IS the best weapon in the game. With Auspex scan you can literally destroy anything in a blink.. Any boss, any difficulty.. There is no close second.

[@kazeem6419]

Melta rifle is the hammer you use to fit a square peg in to a round hole

[@Alastair_Ulven]

Wait I swear they removed the thing of emperor's vengence refilling grenades from the bolt rifle? I think it was when they made it so it doesn't get ammo from crates. Since it now only picks up from random ammo packs.

[@Cronhour]

Nice to see you've grown from saying anything but the melta was useless, I remember you saying all the bolt rifles were trash. Heavy bolt rifle on tyranids (it's better than the nades for minoris because of the penetration and not scatttering packs), rifle with nades on chaos missions for the staggering of elites.

[@TacDonut]

I wish the perks for oculus and the burst bolt carbine were better. They make it seem almost like you’re choosing a harder mode on vanguard then if you picked melta.

[@swift101ninja]

I just wish they didn't share the model for the heavy plasma and tactical plasma. Space marine 1 plasma cannon though

[@shadowrobot7708]

I don't like how melta seems to be the only good way to gain back contested health besides just using a stim anything else doesn't do enough damage fast enough before it drains

[@pheebs8451]

I know that the melta is number 1 for close range for minoris swarm clearance but I find the weapon incredibly boring to use and it’s has an awful ammo to damage ratio for single or duo Majoris targets plus you may as well just throw stones at Thropes as use this gun. It shows big numbers at the end but I suspect the overwhelming damage happens where it’s not so important for any squad. I really wish there was a breakdown of damage to trash mobs and more armoured targets. I don’t feel kills and damage and then special kills really represents effectiveness in squad play. Anyone can steal a kill and a good team player leaves kills for those who need the armour. Also sone people in pub groups really specialist in executions and can really screw a squad up by taking the armour from the guy who was getting hit and whittling the mob down.

[@XerrolAvengerII]

I wish vanguard had access to the carbine and marksman, and more importantly I wish vanguard had heavy bolt pistol

[@warhawkofchogoris8555]

Bro, there's a perk in the tactical tree that gives you a full mag every 30 seconds for killing a major. You have unlimited melta ammo, this is pure cap. That said, give me a Librarian class

[@xquantumx7052]

Vanguards should dual wield combat knives and go all in like blade dancers

[@juanchairez4083]

Or what Vanguard says, "The only thing better than a chainsword is two chainsword. "

[@christophersmith8848]

The original unit to use their armor type was Reivers, which dual wielded knives, they should absolutely get that option

[@thedarkgenious7967]

still annoys me they made the aux grenade launcher so reliant on one specific perk because you can't load it from caches (which are limited resources in the higher difficulties) anymore.

[@kenlard-_-4050]

Instigator Bolt/ chainsword combo fuuuucks

[@InuPlays]

Autobolt does not have enough damage to consistently oneshot smaller enemies in the head. The gun is just plain bad when compared to heavy/ bolt rifle. And bolt rifle gets grenade launcher. Stalker bolt rifle on the other hand, while leveling it up is painful and bad, the relic is extremely good. And with the ammo preservation perk that gives 50% of shots hit back to your ammo on reload, you can use it to cleave trough smaller enemies too. On heavy I mostly use Heavy bolter, bolt my feet to the ground and let it rip. You take damage yes, but you also heal the contested damage immediately back if you keep firing. One ruthless i took 500 damage during the whole match, yet never used stim or got downed. Edit: Heavy plasma is fun, if you want to cosplay as one man mortar team xD

[@chicomaru]

What are your thoughts about the plasma rifle for the tactical?

[@Ketooey]

Gonna have to disagree with you there, Melta on the tactical is sick thanks to Emperor's Vengeance. With an 11 round magazine, you can just lock down the biggest group of majoris enemies you see, and by the time one of them dies, you have another full clip to keep wailing on the next biggest group. You lose out on long ranged damage, but it's a give and take. You handle the hordes, while the sniper or heavy goes for the zoanthropes. It's obviously no grenade launcher, but you can be much more liberal in your usage of the melta to quickly nullify minoris mobs.

[@randolphbienmateo8174]

Warrior Nid : shit... Im out of mini nids, time to call out..... Tactical blasting melta: STFU Xenos!!, you not calling anyone!!!

[@BlackTestament7]

The Melta Rifle is the worst choice for tactical over the Heavy Bolt Rifle and the Auto Bolt Rifle . . . seriously? Bro I can't take this seriously hearing that.

[@TrueVanguard]

Yyyyyup. Melta gets less mileage out of Auspex. Melta does bad damage to single targets while Tactical's entire kit is about debuffing large targets. Melta can't get headshots while headshots on Tactical can instakill extremis enemies. Literally everything in the tactical kit says don't use a melta. Sorry but it's the honest truth. Melta is a crap tier choice on Tactical.

[@SSC604]

@@TrueVanguard You can just pistol them in the head for the extremis kill. I also agree that melta wouldn't be my first choice for Tactical but to say it's better than those two bolt rifles is wild.

[@BlackTestament7]

@@TrueVanguard You say that the melta is bad at single target but acknowledge in the video that the Auto Bolt and Heavy Bolt are in the same boat. Yet both are horrendously bad at dealing with a horde in your face and I'm sorry netiher is gonna stop a swarm before it gets to you if it even has 2 majoris in the mix. Then you're using your chainsword. Meanwhile, a melta will tear through the swarm and stagger anything that's not a Zoanthrope so there's no reason not to be in the middle of the horde using your chainsword to begin with. And Marked for Death is on a 2 min cooldown. That's not consistent at all and if anything the Melta not doing headshot damage would make more sense to use if you're using MoD as you would switch to your bolt pistol to kill a specific scanned majoris/extremis threat. I don't think that's effective either but I don't like MoD's 2-min cooldown in general. I agree that Tactical meta is clearly a Bolt Rifle w/GL and the Precise Calibration Perk build and maybe the Stalker Bolt could be a change up for that. But The Auto Bolt and Heavy Bolt are complete ass comparatively to the Melta and Plasma options.

[@matthewsarson6934]

I just wish they would buff all the freaking bolter guns.

[@Cronhour]

@@matthewsarson6934 they don't need to. People just need to learn to use them, the whole influencer meta "only the melta is good" messed with peoples brains. I've Cleared all the Lethals as a tactical, first choice for nid missions is the heavy bolt rifle, first choice for chaos is the bolt rifle with launcher. They have much more utility and better ammo management then the melta. I feel the Melta is a crutch for people who haven't developed their game sense but it makes your life harder when the difficulty spikes as it just doesn't have the resources to rely on it.

[@11202]

​@@Cronhournah I've reliced and max xp barred every weapon and almost all the bolter guns are trash. They can be serviceable but realistically your just going to melee (or rather parry) your way through most fights. If someone else does the heavy lifting they're okay if you don't mind limiting your entire build around ammo recuperation/ running ammo builds

[@Cronhour]

@@11202 sounds like you're the one getting carried? I carry teams with a heavy bolt rifle through reckless. Maybe you just don't have the skill to play anything other than a Melta?

[@euphoricstamen9562]

@@Cronhour Bolt enjoyer myself but I have to admit that Bolter weapons, save for a few, are barely viable. Most people aren't going to use them over weapons that have massively more ease-of-use and objectively better damage profiles, and that isn't because said weapons are overpowered, it's because Bolters are lacking, and people skipping them for a handful of weapons is bad sandbox design. Increasing their body damage mildly while further buffing their weakpoint damage would rectify this and give them a use case that non-precision weapons like Meltas or Fusils can't tread on.

[@petemcc6459]

Great vid as usual.

[@nagiaoe2434]

What's the best way to level up weapons the fastest?

[@Invaders_Unite]

Melta is probably my least used weapon. I just found it kind of boring. The Occulos I think it's decent. Its good in eternal War.

[@TrippyTigre]

My issue is the Melta feels nigh useless against bosses. Not only that, it feels pretty bad against the flamer 1k marines and the shotgun Tyranids when they don't flinch and take 1/2 your health with a single volley. I would love to buff other weapons against minoris and also make the melta half decent against bosses. Bolters should honestly blow up the gaunts like they do the chaos guards 😬

[@Thebigskullman]

And the floaters… those flying enemies you can’t do much against unless they’re doing that wave attack on the ground

[@SSC604]

@@Thebigskullman Not true, just stand underneath them. The melta does massive damage it just has a low range.

[@Thebigskullman]

@@SSC604 yeah i know it doesn’t have to be downed but standing underneath is still a very risky move.

[@SSC604]

@@Thebigskullman I find it easier to dodge all of their attacks up close compared to being far away. When they use their laser beam you can just walk behind it.

[@tomyorke3412]

Step step boom! step step boom! Boom, Boom step! Boom, boom step!

[@Sargatas]

I can't get tired of using melta rifle because I'm a bulwark.

[@Bigborian92783]

They should allow vangaurd to have bolt rifle with grenade launcher 😅

[@matthewdegnan3959]

Hey TV just wanted to drop by and say hello. I haven’t checked in on the channel in a while but it’s great to see you grinding out space marine!

[@nagiaoe2434]

Buff bolters

[@nagiaoe2434]

Melta for life

[@BLOODKINGbro]

Ranged sissies... thunder hammer storm shield combo all the way. Maybe one day we will be able to wreck with dual lightning claws.

[@doodguy12]

They need to somehow balance the weapons better. The melta and bolt nade launcher are among the most boring weapons in the game. Very low on the fun factor. I’ve also been in meta slave lobbies where I been kicked cause I wasn’t running the grenade launcher. And I been clearing lethal without any of the top 3 meta weapons with relatively good consistency so I can say it’s not mandatory to run the only 3 meta weapons

[@GorblinRat]

Grenade launcher is mid tbh, imagine needing grenades to clear majoris

[@Sashoisaev]

heavy plaSMA!!!

[@willlliorca7024]

Ah, I see you! Trying to get the community to try something different in a sneaky way. 👏👏

[@ChrisOfTheDead]

I heard how OP the melta guns were in operations so I decided to never touch them at all since I figured they would get nerfed. I've got my Tactical and Heavy to level 25, with full upgraded Stalker Bolter, Bolter w/ Grenades, Heavy Bolter, and Heavy Plasma, and I haven't even gone into an operation with any form of Melta.

[@SSC604]

You're missing out, they won't nerf it because it would destroy the identity of the weapon. The only 2 weapons that even comes close the melta(s) in terms of performance is the nade launcher and heavy plasma.

[@HyperTraceur]

@@SSC604 sounds like they gotta buff every weapon then to get it up to par

[@euphoricstamen9562]

Personally I don't see them as OP at all. They're crowd control weapons that hit like a truck up close. Melta weapons in SM2 aren't amazing against bosses, especially bosses that keep their distance like Zoanthropes that never leave the air. Issue is that everything else in comparison isn't good. Bolt weapons have been underperforming in areas they're supposed to excel in which closes the gap between them and the Melta rifle/heavy.

[@Juandalf_]

I feel like the bolt rifle grenade launcher is underrated on its main strength, even in this video. When up against carnifex, hellbrute or even hive tyrant, auspex scan, and absolutely unload. With full magazine upgrades and a heavy in the team you have 14 grenades. Spam them all during one auspex scan and any terminus melts, even on lethal. Only neurothrope is a bit harder to hit consistently. For the hive tyrant I don't even use auspex or grenades during the first phase because it will go into phase 2 too quick and I need to wait for auspex and full magazine.

[@gloomycandle2905]

as a day 1 heavy plasma stan, i approve, that thing DELETES zoanthropes, aiming it just takes practice

[@caydespliff181]

I just reached max level on heavy using the bolter but since I haven’t really touched the heavyplasma, I guess I know what I’m doing for the rest of the day 😅

[@hknova683]

Heavy bolter straight up sucks in lethal compared to the plasma

[@HyperTraceur]

@@hknova683 used the heavy bolter on all lethal chaos maps, still topped the charts in damage

[@Brian-ch6hg]

Thanks for the info, TV. Now let me scroll through replies to see how many bowls of cheerios you ruined.. oh, yup, there they are. 😂

[@jacobwooten977]

The Melta is the best melee weapon in the game, therefore makes the tactical the best melee class in the game It staggers, mob clears, re-gains health, & stops call-ins + you can hit floating targets & dodge anytime unlike other melee weapons

[@porkerpete7722]

The grendae launcher is cringe. Thats all any creator uses.

[@TrueVanguard]

Not the ones I watch. I picked it up for the first time in weeks just to do some Lethal clears a few days ago and haven't looked back. I still think it's fun, but there's so many other builds in this game to use.

[@oliverman6168]

Grapple,melta,finisher,🤤

[@MrJade12]

Bro is still continuing his pointless crusade against the Melta.

[@heronwhisky]

A lot of people out there still use it as a crutch when they just don't know the power of other weapons.

[@azriel_gaming3836]

Did you stop playing destiny?? Cause after space marine 2 dropped I did.

[@KABAR1943]

1:27 lick his enemies in the eyes?? nah bruh just shoot me

[@StrixNebulosa_mk1]

WHY DO YOU HATE MELTA? Its a flawed bias. Dont be dumb.

[@TrueVanguard]

I literally opened the video saying the melta is top shelf, all i said was that if you're getting bored and want to try something else here's what I recommend lol why are you yelling

[@StrixNebulosa_mk1]

@@TrueVanguard Since youve begun playing this game you've been against yourself and viewers playing with and leaning on melta weapons for some reason. I've noticed this, and am merely pointing it out. It doesnt matter what disclaimer youve put at the beginning, we know what youve said in the past and how you really feel about them. If someone thinks they need a Melta, there is no substitute but another melta, so they should just play with a melta. I understand you have to find reasons to make videos as a living, but come on man. And also, I am one of your first 100 subscribers or something close to that low number. So, I think I've been around here long enough to be real with you. And CAPS and yelling are funny if taken in the correct context that is why I typed to you in CAPS!

[@lilturbo2657]

Bolters are useless