3 More Rights Law & Order HATES

[@Claeleth]

I never understood why anyone working for the justice system has any kind of immunity. Shouldn't they be held to a higher standard than an average person?

[@suikim9194]

YES! Thank you!!

[@joehemmann1156]

I don't know, a tiny part of it is reasonable. Though I don't know why cops would be qualified and prosecutors and judges would have total immunity, they shouldn't have any. Cops do need to sometimes subdue a suspect in a way that would get them charged with assault if they were a civilian. Don't get me wrong, that fact has been stretched to a ridiculous degree and I generally think ACAB is a perfectly valid phrase. But even an idealized police force legitimately only called upon to deal with actual criminals who weren't even given guns, let alone shot thousands of innocent people per year, would still need to occasionally tackle a suspect. But once the accused is subdued, I have no idea why prosecutors and judges need any immunity at all, they should be very deliberate and careful with their duties and thus have no argument for doing them in an illegal way.

[@PropheticShadeZ]

​@joehemmann1156 a citizen is allowed to tackle someone in a citizen's arrest. A citizen should be given more leniency in escalation of force in an arrest as they aren't trained in it

[@tacticallemon7518]

when you let criminals write the laws…

[@cliffordhammermeister4443]

​@PropheticShadeZ NO????? Thats a good way to make idiots feeo justified in ASSAULTING people.

[@Thegr8MC]

I never really watched L&O but I always remembered my favorite episodes were the ones when one of the main cops gets accused of a crime. It was always hilarious to me because the cops would get arrested for something they didn't do. They'd get told they have a right to a lawyer and need to use that right, but they would always revoke that right and jump straight into the interrogation thinking they knew the system and could clear themself. But NO! The interrogators would always completely grill them and make them look more guilty. It always made me laugh when the cops get that shocked reaction to the very interrogation techniques they regularly used against suspects and not once did they stop and think "This is unjust! Is this how we were treating our suspects all this time?"

[@gregvs.theworld451]

@Istuckmyheaddownthetoilet I hope I never have to talk to a cop, but if I do, that's the game plan.

[@Gloomdrake]

@@gregvs.theworld451make sure you don’t say JUST “lawyer.” You have to say something like “get me a lawyer.” Even “I want a lawyer” can be used against you

[@quarkonium3795]

@@Gloomdrake The most specific way to do it is to first invoke your 5th amendment right to not self-incriminate and then invoke your 6th amendment right to a lawyer. Then say something like "Please bring my lawyer into the room immediately"

[@margotpreston]

@@Gloomdrake No, what one needs to say to be provided legal counsel is I invoke my right to attorney. Not I want a lawyer as that will not be taken as a request for counsel. There are only three phrases that one should utter in the presence of the police: No, I do not understand, I invoke my right to attorney and I invoke my right to silence. That is it.

[@cogsworth2634]

At least Brooklyn 99 had the cop come back from prison after an unjust prison sentence and be conflicted about the process he would usually undergo to close a case.

[@MagnesiumPC]

I would like to point out, the concept of "Law and Order" did not emerge with Nixon. It actually emerged much earlier under the presidency of Woodrow Wilson, and was popularly used as a slogan during the Vice Presidential campaign of Calvin Coolidge. In the context of Coolidge, it was specifically an anti-labor phrase developed as a response to union strike action (specifically the Boston police strike). Shortly after the election of 1920, the 2nd Ku Klux Klan adopted the phrase as a catch-all for defining what seperates the American zeitgeist from that of its immigrant, black, and minority classes. I am a historian currently leading a research project on the 2nd Klan (specifically Indiana Klan) if anyone would like more info.

[@skyamethyst8506]

I recently(ish) moved to indiana, and I’d love to learn more about the history of the state- both good and bad. Could you point me in the direction of some good resources?

[@Jasonmakesvideo]

WILSON!!!!!!🥵

[@chaoticautistic7113]

The only thing I know about the Indiana klan is that they had a politician as one of their high-ranking members. That is, until he was arrested for murder.

[@AeroDOTwav]

What'd the difference between the first and second klan? Is there a third? I thought it was just one long lasting "club"

[@MrGksarathy]

Do you know why they came up with such silly position names? Like, where the hell did "kleagle" even come from?

[@turquoisesnowflake4613]

A technicality is a rapist getting off because on the court document when the paper said "do not write here" the prosecutor wrote "ok" Not "you with held evidence from. The defense and the jury was not able to make an informed desition based on all of the evidence."

[@bananabanana484]

At first I thought “well that rapist one seems extreme” and then I thought for a second. And it didn’t seem so extreme anymore

[@LordOfTheFatties]

very true

[@natalierose13]

Did you watch the Simpsons growing up?

[@turquoisesnowflake4613]

@@natalierose13 my point stands, they dethroned Lisa on an actual technicality

[@AmeyBoop]

A (late) relative of mine got off on charges because a witness forgot to say “alleged” twice even though he confessed in writing and a DNA test showed that his minor foster daughter’s child was his.

[@isaactfa]

"I want to convict this *kid* too" is an awesome thing to write for the good guys of your show.

[@lorddude123]

Didn't the kid murder a bunch of people

[@Ioganstone]

@@lorddude123 Yes, it's the TV show's psychological splitting where in the next scene the person under the pesky age to consent to many actions will strike again if we don't lock them up. Welcome to the academy lorddude.

[@lorddude123]

@@Ioganstone what are you even trying to say?

[@Ioganstone]

@@lorddude123 Sure, I'll brush it up a bit. "Welcome to the academy lorddude." This is a reference to 33:37 and is a proper noun referring to a police academy in the show's setting, thus more correctly spelled as "The Academy". In case of willful obtusion however (because everything before that was first-rate presentable) I'll give you the Wikipedia entry on police academy. A police academy, also known as a law enforcement training center, police college, or police university, is a training school for police cadets, designed to prepare them for the law enforcement agency they will be joining upon graduation, or to otherwise certify an individual as a law enforcement officer, typically a police officer.

[@tonoornottono]

@@lorddude123what they’re trying to say is kind of unclear because they’re being a douche about it, but i will ACTUALLY clear it up for you instead of being sarcastic. they’re saying that, yes, the kid murdered a bunch of people. but this is a propaganda tactic on the part of the show- basically saying: “this child is too young to be legally held accountable! something needs to be done, something needs to change, the police need to be granted more power over children!” in other words, it’s a strawman created by the show to justify further authority over a class of people who have more legal protection (and are more vulnerable in general), children. i don’t think the person you’re talking to is cool they’re super rude. they’re not taking you in good faith at all. but i can see you’re asking genuine questions so i hope that helped explain their point of view a little better.

[@hooting-ton5215]

Gotta love the trope of: "Scumbag attorney", like yeah scummy lawyers do exist but what about prosecutors? They do the same shit and get innocent people thrown in jail.

[@tabathaalshalhoub1653]

If you look at the KZbin comments on law and order clips, a lot of people criticize the lawyers defending criminals. And, it’s interesting (to me) the look of criminal defense attorneys. They’re usually ugly, unattractive, and, if they’re not, their personalities are ugly and unattractive. Yet, criminal defense attorneys are the ones protecting US. They’re the people standing between an innocent person and jail. So… why are they the bad guys? Because they defend murders and rapists! ~~ they’re defending people against cops and prosecutors who claim someone is a murdered or rapist.

[@ahumanbeingfromtheearth1502]

And frankly, I'd argue using scummy tactics to get someone sent to jail is far, far worse than using them to get them out of it.

[@hashbrown4781]

And they have absolutely immunity unlike any defense attorney.

[@johnnotrealname8168]

@@ahumanbeingfromtheearth1502Depends on who is gotten out.

[@rclipse1985]

@@johnnotrealname8168Definitely not. The worst that an evil defense attorney can do is help one guilty man get away with a crime, and maybe if you want to interpret in the extreme, never bring closure to the family of the victim. A prosecutor who's dirty can ruin an innocent man's life, their family's life, and erode trust and faith in the system in those who once believed in it.

[@Faction.Paradox]

"You have the right to an attorney" *officers projectile vomit*

[@tfroman11]

*show proceeds to a flashback of how the DA was forced to give Ted Bundy an attorney so obviously no one should ever have one, ever*

[@SgtWicket]

@@tfroman11No joke, this is how some of the worst Supreme Court rulings happen. They will take on a case of a child abuser or cannibal or some other worst case criminal and take away their rights without any consideration given to the fact that it will affect EVERY criminal case from mass murders on down to shopliftings, including the innocent defendants.

[@bananabanana484]

@@tfroman11 As we all know, individual examples are always indicative of larger systems.

[@therobustempyrean1436]

"I would like to practice my 5th Amendment right until I can speak to a lawyer in a confidential setting" Multiple officers spontaneously combust

[@matt0044]

If we could be so lucky…

[@RealLukeWilson]

I recently replayed the original Ace Attorney games, and being 15 years older and far more cynical, they really hit different. The judge is like a caricature of Kyle Rittenhouse’s judge, the prosecution commits Brady violations frequently, and you’re only allowed access to crime scenes through trickery, or (later) by having a friend on the police force. I know that the games are based (loosely) on the Japanese legal system, not the US, but seeing how similarly due process works in a super simplified system is still upsetting.

[@mireya0269]

To be fair, the Ace Attorney games do not take themselves too seriously.

[@hugmynutus]

Ace Attorney games aren't remotely realistic. Japanese courts have a 90% conviction rate and only banned physical torture to extract confessions in 2003.

[@EdmondDantes224]

@@mireya0269 Ace Attorney is clearly being parodic, but Shu Takumi absolutely did take inspiration from real Japanese law and was absolutely trying to shine a light on how unfair Japanese society's "guilty until proven innocent" standards are. Remember the flashback to Phoenix's childhood, when he was accused of stealing money? That's actually based on something that happened to Shu Takumi IRL. Only IRL there was no Edgeowrth to defend him.

[@gonderage]

There's a video by Moon Channel (a real lawyer!) on Ace Attorney's theme of having the cards stacked against the defendant. tl;dr: Japanese culture subscribes to social harmony, which influences their 99% conviction rate and deprioritizes personal justice. "innocent until proven guilty" is inverted to the point some defendants believe they were the culprit, even though they know they didn't do the crime, which is so jarring to the Western audience.

[@WobblesandBean]

​@@gonderage Yup. The same goes the other way, too. Cops won't arrest a clearly guilty person if they don't think they can find enough evidence to convict them, cuz their success rates mean more to them than bringing people to justice.

[@msjkramey]

I'm not one for punitive justice (because we should be focusing on rehabilitation), but 5 days for intentionally taking away 25 years of an innocent person's life is absolutely insane. In what world does a person learn anything from that?

[@personnemay2692]

That's basically a forced vacation

[@msjkramey]

@@personnemay2692 idk that I'd call spending any time locked up a vacation, even if the sentence is short

[@ohok45624]

They do learn something, and that's to do it again if they feel like it.

[@oasntet]

Yeah, if we were serious about Brady violations, we'd pass a mandatory minimum of a year for a year. Even if proving Brady violations is tough, a serious punishment, with an option for a plea deal if the prosecutor comes forward as soon as the violation is discovered, would drastically reduce how many prosecutors are willing to play the game this way. If we were serious about justice, there's a lot we could do through Congress to make it happen. But so long as the GOP manages to convince its base that crime is on the rise and has been on the rise for all time, with the help of shows like L&O, there'll never be a majority of lawmakers interested in passing fair justice measures.

[@msjkramey]

@@no_peace care to elaborate...?

[@michaelodonnell824]

Here's the issue I have with the violation of these Civil Rights - Cops and Prosecutors have a DUTY to obey these Rights BUT suffer NO CONSEQUENCES when they persistently violate such Rights - so why would they EVER respect such Rights? If Cops and Prosecutors face Criminal Charges after failing to respect these Rights, how many of them would "forget"? - How many would end up in Jail, the same Jails they LOVE to put possibly innocent people in?

[@OcyTaviAh]

Especially since the whole structure of the legal system is “how can we stop people from doing crimes if there aren’t any consequences?” But somehow think they’re exempt from this concept themselves…

[@randomjunkohyeah1]

Judges and justices know this perfectly well, and count on it. They do not actually believe in rights, only in the subjugation of the underclass. But they also know that for the sake of their own skin they have to _pretend_ to care about civil rights- and thus, massive effort and billions of dollars have been sunk into inventing and implementing workaround excuses for destroying those rights, and in spreading propaganda like these cop shows to get people on board. Although, looking at how things are going, their feeling that they even need to pretend anymore is beginning to slip.

[@beautifulismyname1]

As they say on Rhiannon’s podcast (5-4) all the time: it’s not a right if it’s not enforceable. If you only have the right in theory but if anyone violates it they are given a free pass to donut again. That’s not a right at all.

[@johnnotrealname8168]

@@beautifulismyname1 You only realising this now?

[@cascabels]

Where I live in rural Texas, local governments are trying to get "probable cause" to encompass "heading west, woman in car". Any woman going west could be pulled over on suspicion of traveling to New Mexico for an abortion. About 5 years ago, the local police were disbanded (for the second time in a decade) because an officer was pulling women over to assault them and the rest of the department were covering it up. Really cool and good place to live! Can someone please give me five thousand dollars or a couch to sleep on in Minnesota

[@fandomcringebucket]

if you have any artistic ability, furry art is always an option. it doesn't have to be good, because someone will pay for it.

[@stuglife5514]

I’m from PA, but lived in Texas for about 5 years before moving back home. And yea, small town Texan cops are so corrupt it’s not even funny.

[@CaptainVicke]

Why Minnesota, out of curiosity?

[@john2g1]

​@@CaptainVicke I don't want to speak for the OP, but Minnesota has had a reputation for being socially and technologically progressive for a while now. Of course Derek Chauvin was a Minnesota police officer (no place if perfect), but also Derek Chauvin is one of the few police officers to get major prison time for their actions. The main city has a curiously large and diversifying immigrant population most of whom (parents) sought asylum from terrible regimes, so they have a vested interest in American freedoms and liberties.

[@cascabels]

@@CaptainVicke I already have some family there and I do poorly in hot weather! They also have good schools and free lunch for all students in case I ever have kids

[@BlackXSunlight]

My father was arrested back in '93 after being falsely identified as part of some drug operation, all because of someone he knew. His lawyer friend came in clutch, but he never managed to retrieve the $12k the cops just grabbed from his home during the arrest, which set him back for years.

[@wen6519]

That is so much money now, my brain can't compute how much money that'd be in '93. I am sorry this happened to your dad.

[@nont18411]

And somehow the media wants to portray a lawyer like Saul Goodman as a villain? What a sick joke!

[@klutzmtg2310]

@@wen6519 That was nearly $26000 in todays money.

[@krelekari]

12k cash in 90s money is nutty That's extremely rough

[@KRobinson-ko1ne]

How is he doing now? Your father I mean

[@direktive4]

there's that scene in Se7en where brad pitt wants to kick in john doe's apartment door but morgan freeman knows they don't have legal standing to do so. he kicks it in anyway and they work backwards by giving a homeless person a few bucks to make a statement that they saw someone being weird by that unit.

[@TorquemadaTwist]

Some cops will do anything to get a head.

[@rambofan334]

@@TorquemadaTwist Gwenyth Paltrow's head perhaps?

[@hambor12]

@@rambofan334Gwenyth Paltrow's severed head: It's What's In The Box!

[@picahudsoniaunflocked5426]

@@rambofan334 I'm surprised her Goop company doesn't sell a "7" music box featuring a doll head of GP rotating.

[@odessawild7798]

What the fuck is that movie even about

[@Owesomasaurus]

Hold up, this 16 year old kid dressed up as a cop, handed evidence in to the cops, was congratulated by another cop, but he's somehow not a cop? Like... all these cops were treating him like a cop and just *nobody noticed?*

[@youmukonpaku3168]

who's gonna prosecute him for impersonating a police officer, the rest of the pig farm?

[@NeutralDrow]

@@youmukonpaku3168 I mean, yeah, _after_ he started assaulting people and conducting break-ins on their behalf. But what was their excuse before??

[@msjkramey]

I will never understand how people can be gleeful about a person dying... the fact that their offices send each other themed presents whenever someone faces the death penalty is disgusting and downright creepy. And considering that over 40% of the condemned are black people (compared to the 14% they make up of the population), choosing *lynching iconography* with the nooses is particularly dark

[@myoceans1312]

ironic comment considering the shirt he's wearing throughout this entire video

[@jellomiki]

I mean, they're just not hiding their fascism ?

[@msjkramey]

​@@myoceans1312ha, I didn't even notice that. I still think it's weird as hell though Edit: how is it ironic though? I'm not wearing the shirt? And I wouldn't either

[@anthonyrowland9072]

Also how are you gonna fight a capital case with a public defender even if it was applied equally...

[@alexricky87]

Interesting use of the word "dark"

[@kacektv9405]

That story with John Thompson alone made me have to pause the video, and pace around my apartment in absolute rage! And that's not even a one and only scenario. Too many people have been victims of wrongful decisions in court only to have someone say "Twas but a booboo no hard feels now it was only a 1/4 of your life gone after all"

[@msjkramey]

Yeah, I can't even imagine that. If I think about what it would be like if I lost the next 25 years of my life, it's heartbreaking. My little nephew would be a man, maybe even have is own kids. I would have lost my choice to become a parent myself. Everyone I ever knew would basically be a stranger (because realistically, how many people are going to keep visiting after that long? Think of how violating it is to visit an inmate with the searches and all that). I'd miss weddings, funerals, graduations, and all those little moments along the way. It breaks my heart just picturing it

[@picahudsoniaunflocked5426]

​@@msjkramey The Innocence Project has great info + links & I remember reading some updates of prisoners who were released after serving time unjustly convicted for crimes. It's heartbreaking to hear how forever changed these folks are from incarceration, & how after the end of a long battle they get released, & still face having to rebuild some kind of life, usually with minimal resources & plenty of stigma.

[@msjkramey]

@picahudsoniaunflocked5426 thanks for sharing!

[@CharlesChristinaWH]

​@@picahudsoniaunflocked5426they're so awesome I donate to them often Heros

[@erichansen2860]

Look, we're just withholding evidence that injects reasonable doubt into our case.

[@cwastoinand]

and make it the real guilty person stays free....

[@pennyforyourthots]

​@@cwastoinand no, no, no, we have the _real_ suspect. See, he's -black- has prior offences.

[@MinkStolle]

evidence is something that helps convict, everything else is a technicality.

[@matthewbrooks5470]

“Might” inject doubt, but if it did, it “totally” wouldn’t change the outcome at all :)

[@lostbutfreesoul]

This still happens a lot... Prosecutors have to much say in what evidence is 'related to the case.'

[@Jarakin]

1:03:37 I've never been able to look at SVU the same way after i realised that I'm pretty sure enough suspects have died in Stabler's custody for him him to legally qualify as a serial killer.

[@vampiricn1ght]

And yet, the show wants us to see him as one of the most morally upright people in the whole franchise, and an inspirational cop

[@courtneythompson6179]

I don’t get how people like him. They say he only beats up rapists but isn’t he like that with everyone they interrogate? His temper alone makes him unattractive but people fall over themselves for him

[@akkristor]

Looking back on Law and Order, I never realized the police bias is so heavily ingrained that the presumption of guilt is built into even the opening monologue. "In the criminal justice system, the people are represented by two separate yet equally important groups: the police, who investigate crime; and the district attorneys, who prosecute the offenders." Prosecute the >Offenders

[@anna-flora999]

Also, "the people" are not represented by the defense in any way

[@Nostradankus]

You could even argue that the opening outright denies that criminals are even a part of society. The "offenders" are at least implicitly positioned as outside of and opposed to the "public". It smacks of the whole "wolves, sheep and sheepdogs" concept of policing.

[@joshuaa7266]

@@Nostradankus That's how a lot of people who are fine with removing the rights of the accused think. The idea of "if you don't do crime you have nothing to worry about" works because they see criminals as somehow different from everyone else in a way cops can simply identify. The idea that they or a friend might get run through the legal machine doesn't occur to them.

[@briannawalker4793]

As a recovering SVU addict, I watched for a few reasons: 1. The wild will they/won't they chemistry between Stabler and Benson 2. What you said about the cathartic nature of watching sex crimes actually be prosecuted 3. It scratches a specific drama itch that only Criminal Minds and Cold Case also scratched - this weird fine line between mystery, suspense, and soapy drama, maybe? Idk. I stopped watching SVU (and Criminal Minds, and Cold Case) when I realized how badly it hurt my mental health. Regularly consuming that kind of violence upped my paranoia, anxiety, and depression to the point where I was able to stop therapy for a whole year after cutting these shows from my media diet 😅 Working in SSD/SSDI law during that year off also completely changed my view on cops, the justice system, and crime, so now I can't watch any serious cop shows without getting super angry lol

[@LiteratureEastandWest]

Good points and hope you’re doing better these days re your mental health.

[@tabathaalshalhoub1653]

I used to watch law and order in the late 90s/early 2000s with my grandmother and when I switched us to SVU, she thought it was too hard to watch. It would give her nightmares and she couldn’t watch it anymore

[@lemon93]

It's a big nostalgia thing, but oh ya the cops are monsters, I just think stabler becomes the main character in happy and it makes re-watch ing it funny as hell.

[@katrin72091]

I really liked the psychology and found family aspect of Criminal Minds but after 10 seasons of only serial anything and Reid (my beloved) getting treated like less than garbage by the writers I just had to stop. Made me stop seeing monsters everywhere and while it didn't solve my mental issues, I've also been doing much better. :) Watching Elementary also helped because, while it still handles some dark themes, its so much more... I almost want to say whimsical. All the dark drama revolves around the main characters so the cases themselves get to stay a bit more lighthearted. Even if it's murder.

[@courtneythompson6179]

I use to watch svu a lot when I was younger. I still like to watch it if it’s on but more often than not I find myself changing the channel because sex crimes are just so depressing

[@tegantalks9612]

I saw someone comment on John Oliver’s Law and Order piece and it stuck with me. Basically the gist of the comment is that they used to work in a home with vulnerable people who loved to watch Law and Order and to victims of real world crimes who never actually got the justice they deserved love the show because that’s how they wished they were treated. They wish they were believed, they wish people cared, and they wish the person who did it to them was prosecuted and maybe roughed up a bit by the cops.

[@angrynerdgirl]

That reminds me of Mariska Hargitay saying in interviews how many SA survivors wrote to her sharing their stories and saying they wish they'd had Olivia Benson on their case.

[@banquetoftheleviathan1404]

I bet all those people who were fasly accused wish they were believed too. But the fact stands that the police can harass you before ever proving anything. Law lies in favor of the accuser.

[@russianbear0027]

A friend of mine was SA'd by a cop and then laughed out of the station when she tried to report it. The original perpetrator SA'd her again a few days later. That experience makes me almost glad I never reported getting SA'd as a kid to the cops. Law and order makes me sick. I can see how it'd be cathartic to other victims but to me it just makes what happened even crueler.

[@rocketbilly]

This is why I watch SVU and enjoy watching it. My local PD purposefully lost my evidence kit. They told me to give up. They refused to bring charges against the guy because his dad was rich and local and was a big donor for the PD (he loved to brag about doing it so everyone in town knew.) That was over 10 years ago at this point and the guy is still walking around free, dr*gging the drinks of women. But I also know that the show isn't how the real world works, nor am I going to take legal advice from a TV show, but from an actual attorney.

[@philbuttler3427]

That's dystopian AF. Like here's a nice imaginary piece of slop so you can imagine a world where people care enough about you to get justice.

[@SomeGuy.with.a.Beard93]

I was in the car with a “friend”, didn’t know he was doing a pick-up before we went to the store. Turns out the cops were watching the house and had a sting planned. I was arrested with a perfectly clear record and work clothes on since I was on the way to a job. 2 ounces in the car, 1 known drug dealer (who was the main suspect of the investigation) and 1 guy in work clothes; they split the weight and put felony distribution on both of us. My public defender tried to get me to sign a plea deal and they’d give me PTI. I looked him in the face and told him if you ever suggest that again I’ll walk out and represent myself. Ended up getting the charge dropped and expunged by the police before it even made it to trial.

[@ajvanmarle]

There should be a separate show: Law & Order: Court of Appeals, where every single case McCoy has ever tried gets overturned.

[@mangodude6790]

Thank you so much for saying "freedom from social consequence." I cannot believe how many people forget that it's social consequences, not just consequences. I have legitimately seen people argue you can and should be legally punished for speech based on the "freedom from consequences" argument when that is not remotely what that means.

[@TheManWithTheFlan]

In any sane normal show, McCoy would be the villain.

[@RAINBOWNIGTHMAREPRODUCTIONS]

Yeah he really would

[@picahudsoniaunflocked5426]

So true even Claire looked over McCoy's BS lol

[@silverselkie1692]

I want to see that show

[@WobblesandBean]

​@@picahudsoniaunflocked5426 So of course Wolf had her eventually swoon for McCoy and then killed off her character. 🤦🏻‍♀️

[@alexjewett7455]

I thought he was, and this was some kind of villain protagonist deal.

[@VasTheStm]

The good 'ol algorithm recommended you to me a few weeks ago, and so far I have binged almost all of Copaganda. The way you perfectly mix fact, entertainment, TV footage, and cited sources are something to be proud of. You got a sub from me, and keep it up man. Its an important topic that most people don't even realize when watching their favorite guilty pleasure network TV shows.

[@Pablitopewpew]

I love this serie cause I learn a lot about the real world, not just about some TV shows

[@randomjunkohyeah1]

I personally can’t find these videos entertaining because they are so rage-inducing. Just thinking about the sheer amount of damage this propaganda had done.

[@BeeTeaBoi]

McCoy feels like an Ace Attorney villain with the way he hides evidence from the defense

[@KC-Mitch]

If you think defense attorneys are bad because they regularly defend heinous criminals, understand this: They're not defending a criminal. *They're prosecuting the legal system, ensuring that the police and DA's office are not breaking both procedures and the law.* That's what I tell people when they question the justice system and actually go along with this copaganda.

[@xXxzAAa0aAAzxXx]

what really infuriates me are the double standards. no matter what the police does, it's always "a few bad apples" but the vague idea that defense attorneys are "defending criminals" make them categorically bad as a class. Do sleazy lawyers exist? Yes, and they're usually making a lot of money by working for giant corporations and billionaires, but we don't talk about that, do we?

[@AKimmelFIlms]

32:11 Wait why is he dressed like a cop if he's just some 16-year-old? wouldn't that be like a super big deal and a crime to impersonate officers? he even broke into someone's house after impersonating a cop, that's insane.

[@nemolovesy0u]

Yea but imagine how great he’ll be as a cop!!! Lol

[@AKimmelFIlms]

@@nemolovesy0u 🤣😂

[@DingoWalley01]

As someone who watched this episode: he bought it from a second hand dealer, someone who collects a bunch of random junk. In this case, this shop owner had a lot of cop memorabilia including old/discarded police uniforms and replica badges.

[@AKimmelFIlms]

@@DingoWalley01 oh nice! at least that helps explained how he got it, but does the episode ever hold him accountable for literally impersonating an officer?

[@nafizqadir5697]

"Did you know you have rights"

[@RAINBOWNIGTHMAREPRODUCTIONS]

The constitutions says you do and so do I

[@John_b123]

I believe that until proven guilty, every man, woman and child is innocent.

[@DavidGonzalez-jh6eh]

And that's why I fight for you, Albuquerque!

[@johnsiedlewicz5669]

“How did you know that?!?!?!” - a cop probably

[@PancakemonsterFO4]

Sun Tzu said that

[@michaelsimmons8613]

To me the funny thing with the "it is inevtiable that we would have found it!" Argument is the cops telling on themselves. If it was inevitable you shouldnt have broken the law to find the evidence!

[@junebuggeryy]

On the topic of "sex crimes being taken seriously" comfort media: I have a particular fondness for Netflix's "unbelievable", which actually depicts an instance of the police retraumatizing a young victim through refusing to believe her case. It's really harrowing

[@TheCyancheese]

Thanks for introducing this one to me!

[@GinnyRamone]

Unbelievable is A-MAZ-ING

[@jaredplaudis4825]

The standard isn’t even that it’s exculpatory. It’s that it is possibly exculpatory. It’s to avoid exactly the situation the DA describes at the beginning of this video

[@jurgnobs1308]

exactly. that's a huge difference.

[@ZeldagigafanMatthew]

the standard should be any and all evidence the prosecution has must be handed over to the defense, failure to do so is grounds for immediate acquittal even if by way of JNOV, after all, if the prosecution failed in its responsibilities during this trial, by what reason would I believe they would do so a second time?

[@GONEmypurpleflapjack]

​@@ZeldagigafanMatthewif a prosecutor hands over *all* the evidence most people can't afford the number of lawyers it takes to get a thorough review of it. That's why that's not the Brady standard

[@alexbertrand8468]

I’ve heard the argument from people saying “If judges and prosecutors could be sued, every convicted person would sue over their conviction!” To which I say… GOOD! Make judges and prosecutors think twice about pursuing cases.

[@ashleyyyy8833]

I live in Toronto, and we're getting our very own L&O spin off and I'm terrified that it might be well done and people will watch it. The Toronto Police Service has been under more scrutiny lately than they ever have been, and I can't help but think that this new show will launder their reputation.

[@XandateOfHeaven]

I have a weird amount of faith in Torontonians. The media wanted a police crackdown so badly, they were pushing the narrative of how "dangerous" the subway was because of one stabbing, and how "crime was out of control" even though crime had dropped to about pre-COVID levels. I was fully convinced this media blitz would mean former Police Chief Mark Saunders was a shoo-in for mayor, but he didn't even place second. I've almost never seen people so thoroughly reject propaganda like that.

[@picahudsoniaunflocked5426]

I'm still mad they let that serial killer prey on the LGBTQ2S+ community for so long. I'm scared they're gonna try to make that an episode then rewrite the real history of their failures.

[@ashleyyyy8833]

@@picahudsoniaunflocked5426 Yeah, I wonder if they'll write an episode about Regis Korchinski-Paquet, or about the time a plain clothes TPS officer assaulted a cyclist? They've go endless stories to re-write.

[@OscarDirlwood]

​@@picahudsoniaunflocked5426 I'm more pissed than being a part of that alphabet organisation isn't criminalised

[@therevoltingslob2564]

I binge watched all of SVU from season one to whenever Barba left in just a couple months after I got out of an abusive relationship because I didn’t have any validation or support in real life, and seeing stories similar to my own being treated seriously was cathartic. In retrospect it’s disgusting how SVU in particular uses the most horrific crimes imaginable to prop up the police because the only way for them to be the good guys is if they’re only ever targeting the absolute worst of humanity.

[@Gloomdrake]

It’s like how, in Atlas Shrugged, Ayn Rand had to create a fictional, magical metal because she couldn’t make Objectivism work within the bounds of reality

[@harperna3938]

@@Gloomdrake She's a real brain genius. "Pure, unfettered capitalism is a-okay so long as there's a perpetual motion machine propping the entire system up. Also, it's fine for to collect welfare checks because I'm the system to publish propaganda critical of it, but you better believe I'd pull that ladder up behind me the first chance I get."

[@anna-flora999]

​@Gloomdrake a fictional metal AND a mind virus literally making most of the population incapable of making decisions

[@donttalktomebye]

cops in some states require less training hours than a cosmologist yet get paid 3x more and are expected to know and enforce laws lawyers spend over a decade learning to be qualified

[@Sabbatic]

You wanna know what it *really* is about Law and Order that's so enthralling? Why it's got such an iron grip on our syndicated cable schedules? Reasons more unique than it's self-contained stories & narrative simplicity? It's the aesthetic. No other show before or since has really looked or sounded like Law & Order does. The lighting, the camera work, that iconic minimal score, the **dun dun**, the super serious and dry way everyone talks, it's all so pitch perfect in that execution that when you see the newer seasons, the magic is just gone. Whether it's new creative staff, or more likely budget cuts, Law & Order may be back but it's far from being the same. So give it time, the show will undo itself with the rest of what remains of cable TV.

[@banquetoftheleviathan1404]

I think it's because people are cowards.

[@76678-m]

This is why I can’t stand these shows: they want us to root for the people who clearly don’t care about constitutional rights. Still not as as bad as Blue Bloods, though.

[@Faction.Paradox]

But don't you see, if they don't trample over your rights then they can't stop the bad guys from trampling over your rights

[@anthonyrowland9072]

I can deal with blue bloods but dick wolf shows are just vile revenge porn.

[@leviadragon99]

Ah but law and order is more mainstream/popular, so they can spread this shite with marginally less blatancy.

[@76678-m]

@@leviadragon99 good point.

[@picahudsoniaunflocked5426]

I hope Skip does an autopsy on BB while wearing a shirt that says BLUE BLOODS ISD🌻E💮A🥀D💐

[@darthbob88]

52:17 I think that was also the case where he declared that "while there is a lower class, I am in it, and while there is a criminal element I am of it, and *while there is a soul in prison, I am not free* ."

[@Hahahahaaahaahaa]

For those who don't practice or work in the system. Harmless error is, essentially, just what she said. Your rights are violated, but the appellate court thinks the evidence is strong enough that they - the jury of your peers - couldn't have possibly changed their minds. Of course when the defense tells the jury they have a right to nullification it's a mistrial and sanctionable.

[@losingfayth]

i would love to see you cover the shows psych and monk. those shows are so intensely popular even though they don't seem to spend much time in the public eye. i always thought it was weird that psych specifically is so apparently anti-4th ammendment but no one ever, like, calls them out.

[@bananabanana484]

Huh, a private citizen is basically committing crimes on the police’s behalf to secure evidence in psych, aren’t they. That did always seem weird to me

[@tyrrax]

I used to love L&O, Criminal Minds, and CSI. The George Floyd incident changed all that. The cops defending Chauvin eventually broke me of that habit.

[@jordanholt9170]

I also enjoyed a lot of cop shows when I was younger like NCIS, Psych and Monk. NCIS especially plays fast and loose with people's rights and definitely takes the angle of the cops always being right. I grant a bit more leniency towards Psych and Monk because they are written to be more comedic, whereas a lot of the other cop shows tend to play things pretty straight. There are still some aspects of both of those shows that are dubious in their legality.

[@MrZer093]

Same here. I used to watch L&O almost daily. George Floyd knocked that right out of me. All the things being protested against were laid to bare in pretty much every episode being used by the supposed good guys. Lord knows I can’t stomach even looking at all these “loose cannon” cops anymore because I am very sure Chauvin saw himself as a “loose cannon”.

[@CharlesChristinaWH]

Its always amazed how the horror, superhero sci-fi, comedy and cartoon genres not only get law and law enforcement more accurate they actually hold corrupt cops, lawyers, DAs, prosecuters, and judges accountable

[@entidade_000]

The George Floyd thing also changed a lot of my views, although it was mostly from seeing the supposedly peaceful protesters commiting vandalism, looting stores and harrassing people, as well as harming the exact same communities they claimed to be protecting. Then it came out that some higher up in BLM organization had spent millions of dollars of donation money on luxurious mansions for herself, which i'm 100% sure is embezzlement, and that was it.

[@AriOrSomething]

I like the mileage you've been getting out of the daddy cop song, but it's always stuck in my head for the rest of the day

[@gamelover260]

Olivlia Benson killed a kid and i will never forget that. an episode where a doctor forged organ donation olivia found out and as the helicopter pilot was leaving, she went up to it and took the heart meant for a dying kid. even Finn was like "Maybe we got here too laye Liv, maybe he took off" and the pilot was like "Ill turn myself in" but she takes the heart due to it being evidence. So they are willing to break the law to put someone behind bars, but not to save a kid?

[@Ergeniz]

Their concept of 'justice' is punishment indulgence, not protecting the innocent. Never forget that.

[@TJ-el5tm]

The “forged organ donation” means the doctor MURDERED that child to save another. Still murder, and the organ is still evidence of

[@Gingersnaps_the_pumpkin_kitty]

A heart that had already been harvested and wasn't going to go to ANYONE if she took it. If my loved one OR ME had that happen and the organ wasn't even able to save a life I feel like that's even MORE criminal tbh.

[@KaiTenSatsuma]

32:10 - How old is this officer, 16? 32:40 - *Holy shit I was just kidding, I hadn't gotten to that part of the video yet*

[@dazzledification]

"badge mommy" I feel personally attacked.

[@sirsplintfastthepungent1373]

"Say, aren't you a public servant? Why don't you get me a glass of water?" - George Carlin, Attorney at Law

[@TheJase8566]

We need an “internal affairs” show that has cops and DAs and judges investigated, evidence brought up and the corrupt cops, DA, and judges get away with it. That show would have people up in arms. As a society the stories we tell are important. And these stories will help change society.

[@nickwiora8214]

Never in a million years bro lol

[@goblinb]

I swear, sometimes watching these videos is more frightening than a horror movie.

[@TreyPDB]

I remember my mom watching law & order one day and I remember a guy asked for a lawyer, and one of the detective says to his friend "he said the magic words" while exasperated. That always stuck with me. also I don't know if it was law and order or Burn notice or something but I do remember somebody letting a little kid drive a car somewhere, and someone else telling him not to say anything always thought that was cool

[@ratgurl1]

“sometimes i wonder what the 1915 supreme court would think of euphoria…” you are the voice of a generation

[@justinbremer2281]

I would love to see somebody make a show where the first episode is a typical one-hour cop procedural, and every episode in the rest of the season is the court case tearing apart the entire case because of how egregious the violations always are

[@picahudsoniaunflocked5426]

I'd watch the sh-t out of that series.

[@basedeltazero714]

_Law and Order_ was partially made as a refutation to a show with... something like that theme, called _Arrest and Trial_ Though it was a bit more neutral in its framing it would show the investigation from the police perspective and then the trial from the perspective of the _defense_

[@justinbremer2281]

@@basedeltazero714 Oh, now that is interesting!

[@jaredgreathouse3672]

9:49 you can't just say "we know this man is innocent but we're gonna try him anyways cuz he's a bad bad dude in other ways."😂 could you imagine how horrific this principle would be were it applied in other ways?

[@CompComp]

Do we have rights? Like do we really... They are taken away everyday

[@midcatwmn]

Still liking the shirt! I used to watch OG Law & Order and SVU a lot 20 years ago, when I was younger and stupider. Not as a regular habit but just when it was on and I was bored. I think the appeal was the characters and their sardonic quips, especially Lenny Bristoe (RIP), seeing how tangled (or ridiculous) the episode's case got, and the satisfaction that the bad guy gets caught and punished most of the time. There's pretty much always a rerun on some channel at any given time, and I'll admit that while I actively try to avoid the shows now, sometimes I'll still flip to them for background noise or just to kill time. Since the majority of episodes are self contained, it's easy to dip in and out of the series without worrying about overarching plot threads. I've known for years that It is a deeply problematic show, and I see that the well goes even deeper than I realized after watching your (extremely enjoyable) breakdown. But it's also an entertaining show, and that's a big part of the problem with a lot of copaganda, isn't it? When even a cop show as nakedly bad as Blue Bloods can run for seven seasons (holy shit), you know that there's something about this kind of media that reliably attracts viewers (and advertisers). The networks aren't going to change running with "safe" options like cop shows until the "safe" options no longer sell. Depressing!

[@Name-ot3xw]

My local cops are a bunch of sellouts, been complaining about how we don't bribe them from the public coffers hard enough. What happened to the love of the game, man?

[@olurinatti]

why's this video so good?! I started it thinking I was gonna watch a little and come back to watch the rest and now I'm hooked. Thank You for letting me be a part of it!

[@Lou-Mae]

So cool to get an inside view of this stuff from you!

[@hampterman7]

Usually with longer videos, i just put them in the background and play my video games, but with yours i try to pay attention beacause i find them interesting and fun to watch. Keep up the good work man!

[@danielturczan2485]

34 not guilty verdicts out of 450 episodes. Assuming it's one case per episode, that's a 7.5% acquittal rate. Which is a *better* acquittal rate than real life, given plea deals.

[@johnbradley1139]

The best joke in L&O came from SVU... Ice-T said, "I'm a Republican," when asked what his "deep, dark secret" is. I stopped watching Law & Order, all versions, after graduating law school, and working for a public defender office.

[@momain5483]

I appreciate you and so many other creators who work tirelessly on videos like this. I used to love these shows when I was younger and could live being ignorant to the world. Having grown up and learned so much, all these clips you show make me feel so slimy and gross for enjoying these shows. Love 5-4 Pod and thanks for introducing me to Olayemi Olurin!

[@vampiricn1ght]

My sister watched SVU constantly as a kid, and graduated highschool with a set goal to become a prosecutor. Then when she hit law school, she realized just how biased the show was and became a public defender

[@JPH1138]

I work as a courtroom transcriber (in Australia) and I have to say the talk about the leeway the prosecutors get from the courts rang true from a recent case I was on. This was an appeal, where a lady who was found not guilty was suing the Prosecutors office for some sort of restitution for trying her without sufficient evidence. The judge ordered closing submissions in a limited timespan, and if any written submissions were to be provided they were to be a single page of dotpoints to contain discussions. The prosecutor's office filed 32 pages of written submissions on the day of closing submissions and did not disclose them to the other side before the day in court. The plaintiff asked for these submissions to be struck out since it clearly breached the orders the judge had given, but the judge disagreed and let the filings stand. The plaintiff's counsel asked for extra time to address the points they had only just read, but were limited for extra time since the judge had another matter on in the afternoon. The judge offered them the chance to file written submissions in reply, but the lawyers explained that they were already committed to more trials in the next week and would no longer be on retainer for their client (as they understood no more filings would be necessary). Part of me wondered if the prosecutors had looked at the lists and realised the timetable meant no one would be able to respond to their filing, but the upshot is they flagrantly ignored what the judge said and were just allowed to do it with no consequences.

[@elegy9326]

My mom and I watched hours of law and order together when I was a kid--really a kid, as young as 5 or 6 I think. I've has law and order nightmares my whole life. Especially svu. It's a mesmerizing show (especially if someone is playing it loudly in the only room you can do homework.) I asked my mom once why she thought that was appropriate for a kid and she shrugged and said "it's law and order. How would I know it wasn't okay?" We watched every single episode. She saw the content of the episodes. I think this learned helplessness, this inability to stand up for our children and assert our own boundaries, this willingness to accept whatever we are told is okay, speaks to the core of why people watch law and order.

[@CTEagleCeltic]

I feel like these Brady violations are “how you create the Joker”…. I got to get me a robe or a badge at minimum… only service jobs that can’t be held accountable. 1 day for every 5 years… that’s nearly 2000:1 ratio.

[@MinkStolle]

Does anyone else remember Chris Meloni playing the gay concierge in Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas? You know, where he goes on a lengthy and passionate tirade about police bullying and harassment? It seems he took the lessons of being victimized, added a dash of "if you can't beat 'em...", gave himself 3 minutes at High in the moral majority microwave and out of the exploded remains emerged elliot stabler.

[@Aldrius]

I REALLY would be interested in hearing you cover Hill Street Blues. It's a BIZARRE case example because generally it's one of the few cop shows I see that emphasizes victim's rights and vilifies police overreach (and not in that "there's a few bad apples" way, but in a "all cops WANT to beat the crap out of you and make their jobs easier" kinda way) and the moral core of the show is a public defender, but then that all shifted, ever so slightly in season 6 when Dick Wolf started working on the show and it's not blatant, but suddenly the tone of the show just changed EVER so slightly. Joyce, who was unabashedly anti-cop, like *SUPER* anti-cop is suddenly much more respectful and friendly towards the cop characters. Among a bunch of other weird tonal shifts.

[@carliekween]

wait?? So DW has done this trick more than once? Because I thought he only pulled this crap with Miami Vice, another cop show that was pretty anti-cop, but as soon as DW came in the shifted to “ermmmm actually cops aren’t that bad”. I can’t believe this 😭

[@Aldrius]

@carliekween he was only a script supervisor so it's very subtle, but case in point Joyce (the PD) goes from callously disrespecting most of the cops (except the ones she likes who she calls by name) to always referring to them as "officers" or "detectives".

[@carliekween]

@@Aldrius wowwww ok… someday we gotta figure out a way to block DW from working on cop shows ever again

[@OverlordVal]

Also one reason I used to watch SVU is, depressingly enough, to feel like the multiple assaults I've experienced 'weren't that bad'. And sometimes, there was even a GUY survivor I could see myself in.

[@rooplespooples]

that's why I watch: the police believing victims?! perpetrators being punished?! Couldn't be real. It's why i watch

[@rachnab04]

Honestly I am a CSA survivor and watching Olivia benson reaffirm that survivors matter every episode is something I need

[@LiteratureEastandWest]

Good point. Sorry you experienced that, hope you’re doing ok.

[@DeadKraken]

I honestly think that L&O SVU does a good job in giving the public a more empathetic depiction of survivors and some of the traits of abuse and PTSD that society views as very negative. As a survivor of abuse, I feel comfort seeing such a huge show have regular cases in which victims are lying or can't remember things, but are believed and respected by the police anyway. I know it's fantasy, but I can't deny that I liked to see it.

[@OverlordVal]

I'd like to encourage all those who like proceedurals and how-catchums to watch Columbo and or Murder She Wrote. Both are fun. And MSW is often the type of show to determine cops as incompetent, sexist morons

[@agilagilsen8714]

It's a common misunderstanding that the prosecutions job is to convict people. However the actual job of the prosecution is to present the truth as the state has found it the best they can and allow the judge/jury to make a decision based on ALL relevant evidence. To make it worse however, the misunderstanding that prosecutors are there to convict is even a common thing among lawyers. I would know, I am one and I know plenty. These videos are great, and you're doing a fantastic job!

[@sourpatchkiiddoo1582]

Bold of you to assume I’ll have rights for much longer 😎 -sincerely, a trans man living in America who is terrified for the future of queer ppl 🥲

[@TheBonkleFox]

We'll keep fighting. Giving up and stopping the fight because we're afraid is exactly what they want. It turns out conservatives get really scared when you start to fight back because they know they can't win long-term.

[@wen6519]

+1

[@wilcee238]

Canada is a great place to visit, and live. Just saying.

[@fandomcringebucket]

@@wilcee238 Eh, sometimes, but Canada's still got a long way to go in terms of rights for queer people that aren't white- or hell, just non-white people in general (see: horrific treatment of indigenous populations)

[@wilcee238]

@fandomcringebucket Know what? As a black person Canada is the least racist place I’ve ever visited but thinking about it they treat everyone but indigenous people well. You have a point.

[@melissasoto9902]

It should be 'innocent UNLESS proven guilty'. Right from the start they assume guilt with 'UNTILL'.

[@corralescoyote]

Excellent point. ✌️

[@oomas7209]

Listened to this while sorting my old bin of Lego so I can rebuild sets, I found a police baton and thought, hey wait a minute isn’t it kinda weird how there is civil unrest in Lego city? Idk maybe I’m overthinking or maybe I just came up with the next copaganda video topic 😅

[@mystic-malevolence]

Consider the Lego Space Police III theme from 2009. The police are an all-human militarized force with loads of weapons, meanwhile all of the criminals are aliens. The criminals are also the only ones with names, strangely enough.

[@TranqBase]

These have been my favorite video essays on KZbin. I'm entirely caught up, just got a new job and I'm finally gonna support on Patreon

[@bec7080]

I loved watching law and order when I was young. As I got older though I realized that there was a lot of crimes against a certain age demographic. And once I did and I wasn't like 16 years old it became really disturbing to me. At like between 10-16 years old I was like "oh yeah all of these are all horrible" and then I got just a little older and I was like "ok this makes me feel bad but life is bad so ok". But I was 19 *a very long time ago". So then it just got more and more disturbing because apparently the writers didn't think that just normal sex crimes were entertaining enough on SUV for example they were like "what if we make it worse than real life? *And we've already told you real life is baaddd*" So suddenly I was like in my early 20s and just like "why would I watch this?". I had already been skipping the episodes with younger victims. So then what I had left was episodes where it was just the most horrific sexual violence (like you said, you couldn't talk about it here) I understand that there are these crimes out there but to make it so extreme in *an entire weekly series* meant for TV if kind of strange.

[@AnonYmous-mc5zx]

The issue with Law and Order is they always manage to catch "the right guy", which is such the antithesis to reality that all of their attempts at arguing against these rights in the show are just cringeworthy.

[@yupitsjessbbyx3]

I know a cop who once very casually told me they’re not supposed to run your plates while driving behind you without pulling you over but that they will use small infractions like your tint being too dark or a tail light or switching lanes to pull you over-not because they actually care about those infractions, but because they already suspected you’ve committed some other more serious crime and this is just their way in to search your vehicle with “probable cause” was basically you switching links without using a signal means you probably committed an arm robbery that they know about 🙄

[@shelter42Ayre]

Every time i find myself enjoying True Crime shows or stuff like Law and Order. I go back to this channel to remind myself what reality is. Also this channel slaps.

[@banquetoftheleviathan1404]

I just watch horror. No real people have to get hurt that way, thus i am not deriving stimulation and entertainment from real tragedy.

[@shelter42Ayre]

@@banquetoftheleviathan1404 totally Fair, horror unsettles me in ways my brain doesn't like ;-;

[@GrandArchPriestOfTheAlgorithm]

I watched Law & Order: SVU because it was part of a 4 hour weekday marathon of crime shows that I watched so I had something to do while waiting for Buffy reruns at 3 am.

[@jimmygravitt1048]

You know what just hit me about the K9 lawyer thing, he is STILL asking for a lawyer. I mean, just because dog lawyers don't exist (which sounds like a pretty solid reason for believing you misunderstood the gentleman), he's STILL asking for a lawyer... Fuck the system.

[@matthewdoran3448]

You should make a video about reacher. I know the main character isn’t a cop but they basically just gun down unarmed suspects because ‘a good lawyer would get them out’

[@wilcee238]

To be fair, the first and second seasons showed the effects of blatant racism and corruption in the police force and the prison industrial complex.

[@Night-Mayor]

You haven't talked about Chicago P.D. I stopped watching that show as I watched it with new eyes. I found it was giving the ok to torture, stealing drug money for greed and occasionally for charity. Criminals are punished, not cops. Another thing that I hate is that we are spoon-fed the idea that Internal Affairs is an evil department that seeks to punish good 👮🏼‍♀️ 👮🏼‍♂️ and rarely gets bad cops because there is no such thing 99.1% of the time.

[@tinfoilballoon8362]

late to the game but criminal justice major here to help with reasonable suspicion and probable cause: reasonable suspicion is when you see your neighbor's gate is ajar when it is usually shut. peeking into their backyard and seeing a bloodied knife and a ransom note is probable cause that they've been kidnapped The first one is what the kids would describe as a "sus" situation. The second is "they were *probably* kidnapped"

[@MadameTamma]

There was one specific reason why I got into law and order even just briefly and that was the time that it airs. It’s the middle of the day, the only thing that is on is toddler shows, infomercials, tv evangelists, and the trashiest of trash tv. I’m stuck home from school on a snow day or sick day and there’s not much to do but marathon law and order. But that was back in the mid to late 2000s when my parents limited my internet time. No clue why people watch it now when there’s other options.

[@tinfoilslacks3750]

Maury and Springer are a lot more entertaining than L&O to be fair

[@underscorlove1742]

As someone who likes Law & Order SVU I'll say I know it's not real but it's entertaining to see a mystery get solved neatly Every SVU episode has a begining middle and logical end It's like a mystery book it has to end well

[@nighting_jay]

Omg I've been binging the Copaganda videos while doing art and homework etc. and was so excited to see this!!! I love these videos and they've made me start thinking about systematic issues like this a lot more than I had been and I've learned a lot! Keep doing good work

[@allanwidner9276]

What some people get out of Law & Order is what people get out of mystery novels - the sub category here is Mystery - Police Procedural. Of course, it's low-quality mystery, since it inevitably telegraphs the denouement early in the first act. That's what I used to watch it for; was a big fan of Murder She Wrote ( Little Old Lady/Nosy Neighbor sub category) and Spenser for Hire (Hardboiled Private Detective sub category) back in the day, too. Also was a member of a Mystery Novels Club thingy that mailed me three novel mill books a month, a quarter of them actually good.

[@esm82ify]

32:00 I just saw an episode starring Robert Patrick from Terminator 2 where he spent several years in prison for raping a young girl. The arresting officer was waiting for him outside the gate telling him he'll be watching him because he'll definitely do it again. Terminator tells thr detective he's changed and proceeds to board a bus to the halfway house where he's required to stay. He sits next to a girl who looks to be maybe 15 then they cut to a slightly similar looking young rape victim and although she can't identify who attacked her, the cop that was harassing the newly released Partick tells Stabler *eyeroll* his suspicions to which he decides to pose as a parolee to gain this guy's trust and coerce him into offending again. The whole time the guy keeps insisting that he's changed and he just wants to follow the rules bur Elliot keeps pushing. The whole time I'm watching, I'm screaming internally because Elliot is actively entrapment him to get sent back to prison. It was truly disgusting

[@direktive4]

i don't know if it's still the case but USA network would air Law and Order SVU marathons all the time, giving anyone flipping thru channels something to consistently land on. people also like mysteries and seeing how they get solved. also Ice T just being on the cast must tickle some sort of irony sensor.

[@net_has]

Gotta love how often he reassures us that he’s not a bad researcher for only having vague definitions of probable cause and reasonable suspicion because like … I am spending a truly egregious amount of money to go to law school and I only have equally vague definitions so I can’t really blame him

[@cassiusdhami9215]

"For revolting barbarity and shameless hypocrisy America reigns without a rival." -Frederick Douglass

[@Illegiblescream]

Justice cannot exist in the buildings and establishments of this country. Justice must come from the streets, and be taken into the halls of power with great and irresistible force.

[@WestIndianAK]

7:12 Relatively minor correction (and I say this having gone to law school in the US myself): Juries are *NOT* supposed to conduct *”beyond the shadow of a doubt.”* They’re supposed to convict based on evidence of guilt *beyond a REASONABLE doubt,* which is *NOT* the same thing.

[@MistyDusker]

Sometimes I enjoy watching shows like Law and Order for pure entertainment value. I watched a show Mare of Easttown where the main character Mare used her position as an officer to plant drugs on the mother of her grand son. Of course she got a slap on the wrist and all was fine. It's nice sometimes to detach fiction from reality but your content helps open my eyes to copaganda.

[@mvprime8]

So many people praised Mare of Easttown and I didn't get it. The main character is just a horrible person, and we are supposed to sympathize with her? The planting heroin plot is when it went off the rails for me, and there was even more idiotic stuff later on.

[@infidel1700]

1:02:40 I've never been able to get over the implications of the Rookies "daddy cop" song, like what's the next scene if they don't close the garage? Nolan arrests them for signing a song inside their garage? The more playful they make it the worse the implications seem to me

[@FionaOfMountLawley]

I'm also surprised that "Fruit of the poisonous tree" isn't expressed in Latin in legal proceedings. "Fructus arboris venenatae" has the same letter count and has two less non letter characters (the spaces) because there are two less words.

[@spoonikle]

we need a law and disorder show thats nothing but innocent people going to jail.

[@misslauren6798]

My cousin's girlfriend shot and killed him 3 years ago. I have been a watcher of Law and Order, SVU, the Rookie, NYPD Blue, etc for decades. But in the 3 years it took my cousin's case to FINALLY go to trial (this past January), I was absolutely astounded by all of the things I didn't see coming! These videos are speaking to me!