Team America World Police: MCU | Copaganda Episode 6

[@msfthe1st117]

The greatest lie the MCU ever told was convincing everyone that it wasn’t a tv series.

[@SkipIntroYT]

this is the most important takeaway

[@marietailor3100]

@@SkipIntroYT Okay, I hear you but like... if the movies are episodes, what are the tv series? Are they... webisodes? Lol

[@levischorpioen]

Feige has been saying for years that he's treating the MCU like a TV series.

[@swanpride]

It's a serial, not a TV series. You know, those things which were very popular with cinema goers until the TV became a thing and people could no longer be motivated to show up for them. It is kind of nice to see them back on the big screen, in a modern take on them.

[@dwc1964]

@@swanpride and in the meantime, around the turn of the millennium, TV transformed from self-contained episodes that could be aired in any order to long-arc stories - kind of like those old-timey serials

[@TheEnoEtile]

A tv series with like 2 episodes a year that are 90 minutes each? So it's a British tv series then?

[@UltimateKyuubiFox]

BBC Sherlock as fuck.

[@tjenadonn6158]

The first two seasons of Black Mirror.

[@harrylane4]

The first two seasons are only six episode long so it checks out

[@PancakemonsterFO4]

Wanker (sherlock OVA plays in the background)

[@politereminder6284]

😅😅😅 Exactly!

[@tomthespaceknerd5396]

"If Tony wasn't played by Robert Downey Junior, Iron Man would be much harder to sell." He was! The comics struggled to sell for decades until the movies gave him fresh popularity. It's not Iron Man people warmed to, it's RDJ. If you read the comics prior to the movies you'll find a boring charisma vaccuum named Tony Stark. But he did have roller skates built into his suit. So there's always that. If you read the comics now, you'll find a cringeworthy attempt to replicate the movie character. No roller skates either.

Damn, the roller skates sounds like so much fun!!! 😭

[@theflashgordon193]

Well atleast ironman moveset and sound design are pretty cool in the game marvel vs capcom

[@JohnYoo39]

Basically it was Inspector Gadget with money and alcoholism

[@DieFarbeLila88]

I heard somewhere that they even changed his character design to create a stronger resemblance to RDJ. Is that true?

[@alkezar9542]

@@DieFarbeLila88 just check the pics and you'll see for yourself

[@rustyjames6131]

I think you just categorized MCU as a TV show to avoid doing a copaganda episode on Paw Patrol.

[@SkipIntroYT]

who says it's not coming!!!

[@katherinemorelle7115]

I love the idea of a Paw Patrol episode. Or maybe not an entire episode focused on Paw Patrol specifically, but on how Copaganda extends to children’s entertainment, making sure they get their brainwashing in early, and how difficult it can be to overcome that as adults. Made even more difficult by the fact that the propaganda just keeps on rolling in as we get older. It’s really quite insidious and super sneaky when you think about it- how the brainwashing of the populace starts so damn early. But if you really want that propagandised ideology to be successful, the best way is to start early.

[@alanpennie8013]

@@katherinemorelle7115 I definitely want an entire episode about Paw Patrol.

[@echowoods7977]

@@FirstnameLastname-bp2pg lol

[@candlemuncher2358]

@@FirstnameLastname-bp2pg commenting on a series called “copaganda” just screams troll lol

[@davidcomito505]

I thought it was ironic that Captian American's shield being a symbol of American strength and exceptionalism was made with something stolen from Africa.

[@D.S69]

haha

[@jirttthebirtt702]

How would it be stolen if no one knew about wokanda and they said that they found it in America since there was a huge war and only the Allie’s traded with each other

[@davidcomito505]

@@jirttthebirtt702 just about anything from Africa that is in the possession of a western country was probably not given as a gift.

[@Ty-vj4wg]

It was intentional though. I swear this entire video and half the MCU fans completely ignore the point of the comics and the genius of their writers. That was the point of it!!!

[@davidcomito505]

@@Ty-vj4wg I got the symbolism. That is why I pointed it out.

[@jamesadamsfl]

This makes me even more fond of “Superman and Lois,” since that series portrays Superman as only occasionally being a “cop” and more often he’s a world-spanning emergency rescue worker (stopping meltdowns and rescuing sinking subs and catching collapsing bridges). Most of all, Clark refuses to use his powers to prop up America over other nations or to dictate to people how they should live. That’s worth admiring.

[@ellisr.kinnear164]

Man I think you've just nailed why I adore that Version of Superman so much. He wants to help. Not police. Help

[@simoneidson21]

@@ellisr.kinnear164This is literally what all superheroes do. It’s built into superhero fiction. Superman in his earliest comic was presented as a hero of the common man.

[@TheAGNOSTIC_who_YT_CENSORS]

​@@simoneidson21^

[@TheAGNOSTIC_who_YT_CENSORS]

You'd probably like *'Jupiter's Legacy'.* Unfortunately the show was discontinued over behind the scenes stuff but it's very good and the episodes should still be available on Netflix. Plus, the Utopian actually went through far more to earn his powers instead of just being born into some privileged, ultimate master race that's just better than everyone for no good reason.

[@jameshaygreen7179]

I think that's in part because with Superman, there is a different question being asked. Most super heroes, like Batman, or the Avengers of the MCU, ask HOW to achieve a goal. There is a problem, or a villain, and the story is often how to deal with the situation. Superman doesn't do that, at least not as much. Superman literally has an unlimited amount, there really isn't anything he can't do if he wants too. But often the question for superman, is SHOULD he do something. It's a question that often never gets asked, but it's unavoidable for superman, because he can just do it. The only question he really needs to struggle with is, should he? And I really appreciate that.

[@cake6851]

You know when you think about Tom Holland's spiderman can be described as Spiderman for the professional managerial class. Spidey is usually some working class dude who life keeps kicking in the face. MCU Peter is the right hand to a ceo who gifts him stuff to keep his favor.

[@breannajoseph2018]

very hot take

[@Shadowcam00]

Wealthy egotistical scientist who flies around in a suit of armor and is directly responsible for multiple villains, including ones who fight Spiderman? Stark was Osborn all along.

[@alexanderchippel]

And that's why I hate MCU Spider-Man. I can actually relate to having the door to my apartment being broken. I can actually relate to missing school to go to work. I can actually relate to missing time with friends and family because I'm trying to make a life for myself, desperately trying to get any leeway I can. MCU Parker is a soiled rich kid who's daddy took away the Ferrari.

[@rennythespaceguy7285]

@@Shadowcam00 Yeah, the problem with MCU spiderman is more that just 'haters are blinded by nostalgia' every element that made Spider-man has been twisted to the point where a character is his archenemy, Norman Osborne, in all but name and he unquestioningly idolises him and goes out of his way to punch all the poor people he screwed over

[@youweremythtaken]

exactly. verilybitchie has a great video on this!

[@averylcobb6110]

It’s weird to see the way the MCU is when many comics originated as anti-establishment or as allegories for the marginalized.

[@galactic85]

Through the magic of capitalism and work of art critical of the system becomes just another product to sell and reinforce the status quo. Look at what happened with the cyber punk genre.

[@GeahkBurchill]

@@galactic85 ^^^ THIS ^^^ Total recouperation.

[@SkipIntroYT]

Capitalism is so insidious in part because of the way it co-opts and commodifies dissent and revolution. Check out Che Guevara t-shirts

[@adamplentl5588]

Capitalism has a long history of turning anti establishment media into jingoistic propaganda by divorcing the original imagery of its context. Check out some of the kids shows they were making in the 80s like Robocop or Rambo.

[@getschwifty5537]

It'd be interesting to see how they neuter the message of the Immortal Hulk run for the movies. Bruce and Hulk are *explicitly* anti establishment in that. Bruce explains disaster capitalism to the world and inspires a wave of revolution within the youth.

[@brucesnow7125]

I think what Civil War was trying to do was to showcase that Steve doesn't want oversight because the system is broken. He isn't against the idea, rather the overseer. You know, like he makes the point that there are some places that government wouldn't want Avengers to help, because it would be beneficial if they suffer. Unfortunately, because MCU so far depicted Avengers as this private special ops esque organization rather than just group of folk trying to help others, it falls flat. And because Age of Ultron literally showed how dangerous lack of oversight is, it's hard to take this seriously.

[@CaptainPikeachu]

Unfortunately Steve saying "the safest hands are still our own" kinda makes his point fall flat because the safest hands have proven to not always be theirs, who is Steve to determine what is right or wrong? If 117 countries speak up and want oversight, why does Steve Rogers, one supposedly moral man, gets to decide where to go and what to intervene in. Even if Steve means well, the notion that he gets to decide where to go because he's just so moral is sketchy at best.

[@Jdudec367]

Actually the MCU depicts them as their own thing, a organization but a independant one so it does not really fall flat. It is not hard to take this seriously.

[@ultimamage3]

@@CaptainPikeachu 117 countries out of how many, total? How many of those countries are the result of British imperialism? How many of them are ordering drone strikes onto their neighbors?

[@danitho]

Exactly! SHIELD was the overseer of The Avengers. It was their initiative. Once they fell, there was no real discussion of who they would fall under now. Tony bamboozled the team by giving them an ultimatum. There was no discussion, no chance to really revise the accord. I was never really sure what the new chain of command was. And if it's the entirety of the UN, the is way too many chefs in the kitchen. When a big threat endangers lives, you do need someone to take leadership, act fast, and do their best. It does take trust because micromanagement, especially by so many people, rarely has a good outcome. I did agree with Cap. Why not try to make the best judgements for now until a better alternative is out into place?

[@adisaster8734]

@@CaptainPikeachu the UN is a joke. he literally mentions in the video that the ppl who created it admit it doesnt do anything. especially with the core 5 members who are global superpowers with their own agendas who have full veto power, THEY'RE the ones who are left unchecked. steve doesnt want to be a soldier anymore. just like vigilantes or citizens who help when they can cuz someone needed help, thats what steve wants to be. i think its also important to mention that despite being a literal superhero steve never really grew out of the "im just a regular dude who wants to help" mentality. every person decides right and wrong for themselves. and steve who just came out of a movie where he sees an american organization that was creating chaos and violence, doesnt want to be under the power of another, whose agendas change. plus the accords took away a lot of the rights of the heroes who sign on (no trial, no lawyers, they were imprisoned in the middle of the ocean) and if u add on the fact that mutants exist in this universe the accords are even more questionable (the sokovia accords are based on the mutant registration from the comics which made it very clear it was wrong and infringing on human rights)

[@misskate3815]

I spent my last few teen years in a neighbourhood with a lot of refugees who fled to my country bc of American “intervention” in their countries. They have mostly lived hard lives and some have died, for many reasons relating to the trauma they and their families suffered due to American imperialist “outreach”. The pain is horrifying and visceral.

[@igorpaulo7499]

i only imagine what these people think when they watch a marvel movie and see people celebrate them without any critic sense

[@MaticTheProto]

@@igorpaulo7499 and where their country is depicted as a primitive shithole

[@waverider69420]

@@igorpaulo7499 it’s a movie! Grow up.

[@igorpaulo7499]

@@waverider69420 for your individualistic mind sure it is

[@eegernades]

@@waverider69420 simple minded people like you who can't see past it is why we have issues.

[@masterofalltrades_]

Many of the comics were anti-imperialist, so it's ironic how Hollywood co-opted something like that (as usual) for imperialist propaganda.

[@Chuck_EL]

they do it with slavery too...how many movies about slavery had a white former slave owner who "saw the light'" and led other slaves against a "worse" slave owner who they let you know is worse by having that slave owner kill kids or dogs to hit that message home

[@spam_1224]

that's just not true.

[@Bell_plejdo568p]

There paid by the pentagonal

[@cornfield3034]

@@Chuck_ELjust to check, you aren’t trying to diss Django unchained are you?

[@Chuck_EL]

@@cornfield3034 No it's a great film he's the hero , no white saviors just Django

[@khwieder]

Hey remember that Thor Ragnorak is also about Thor having to recognize Asgard’s history of brutal conquest recontextualized as benevolent help, it’s right there bro the critique is right there.

[@SkipIntroYT]

I absolutely agree, which is why Ragnarok is one of my favorite MCU episodes. However, Thor isn't coded as "American" or "police" the same way Cap or Tony are

[@willg-r3269]

@@SkipIntroYT I like where this is going though... the bit where Cap picks up Thor's hammer could absolutely be interpreted as echoing the idea of American global hegemony as a worthy successor to the empires of Old Europe.

[@mizjulio]

That one being directed by Taika hits different

[@mizjulio]

@@willg-r3269 🤯

[@unerevuese]

Yes!!! It also reminded of how the US tells us a sanitized version of our history. Taika also added a lot things in the film that was inspired by Maori culture an other indigenous tribes in the Pacific.

[@zenmaster8]

I have a feeling that a lot of the stuff that mixed Winter Soldiers message was edited in post because the military wasn’t happy how anti world policing it was. I mean that Natasha speech was literally offscreen

[@casteanpreswyn7528]

I wouldnt be surprised. Considering the US military has complete veto power on anything in a movie they allow to use any equipment.

[@swanpride]

Hard to tell...I mean, the militare denied funding to The Avengers and Marvel still kept the movie as it was, but they might have been more careful with future movies as a result.

[@BarackLesnar]

Sell your integrity to borrow a couple of trucks smh

[@ValGOPLock]

That thought just ruins the quality of these movies for me

[@Klymenthis]

I loved the character of Killmonger but I never got the “Killmonger was right” movement - like Nakia was right there saying the same thing to T’Challa from the beginning? And actively working to prevent slavery and kidnappings and trying to help people without being an imperialist state? Nakia was right.

[@tfly999]

The "Killmonger was right" movement is fine with ignoring that he shot his own girlfriend in the head without hesitation, and how his first act as king was burning the sacred plant. For all his preaching, he was fine throwing away what was sacrosanct when he got what he wanted, future generations be damned. Nakia all the way.

[@josesosa3337]

@@tfly999I thought the whole plant concept was dumb. Maybe make the panther suit like an ironman suit? Killmonger is an idiot for destroying the plant. He would be the last king with panther powers. The kingdom of wakanda(MCU version) depends on a strong king with these abilities. If killmonger succeeded than wakanda would surely fall with a weakened king without the flower power.

[@TheRepty818]

Killmonger has a number of valid points. I think that specifically is why they had to make him so violent. Hey he's bringing up good points, better make choke an old lady in the next scene to drive home that he's the bad guy.

[@TheRepty818]

@@tfly999 I think they forced a lot of that action into the story in order to reinforce that he's the bad guy, because they can't have an actual revolution. Is he making a vaid point about imperialism and colonization, better have him shoot his girlfriend so we know he's the bad guy. They did the same thing in that Falcon and the Winder Soldier show. Writers were like: Carly was feeding the homeless and doing good work. So, it will be pretty tone-deaf if our heroes take her down now. I know what to do, let's have her randomly start murdering folks even though it's completely out of character as we wrote them in the first few episodes. That way no one needs to feel bad about killing them.

[@AllWIllFall2Me]

I think there's a couple points to reflect on here: The first, and most basic is to highlight that Nakia simply didn't get nearly as much screen time or focus as Killmonger did. So from a film standpoint, she's "less important" than Killmonger. Similarly, we can kind of account for a certain level of erasure: Nakia's not the badass villain of the movie, "she's T'Challa's girlfriend so her views aren't important" kind of thought process. And the movie makes it easy to dismiss her portrayal of the argument, since Nakia and T'Challa's conversation takes place before the "turn" of the movie, which in film tells us that Nakia's views are part of the 'baseline' of the world: Her views EXIST, and she clearly has some weight with him, but he has not been, and may never be, persuaded. Killmonger, as the antagonist and catalyst for T'Challa's revisiting of the ideas, is therefore more EFFECTIVE at convincing T'Challa. Yes, his interpretation of the ideas is, the movie argues, wrong, but it motivates the hero more effectively than previous methods. Now, to a broader idea...I think there's just a lot of people who are so frustrated with how grindingly SLOW history and politics can move, and how little those in power seem to be willing to fight the misdeeds of the past, especially when the system is obviously broken. That anger wants a release, and it latches onto Killmonger before Nakia: Nakia is clearly invested in fighting for a better world, but she isn't obviously angry, like Killmonger is. So he's just an easier target for cathartic identification.

[@override367]

I feel like Captain America telling Nick Fury that the entire goddamned organization needs to be torn down and rethought was as close as the creative team could come to saying anything radical. After all, the same can be said about America itself. For a Disney produced major blockbuster movie it's a pretty revolutionary sentiment, it's a shame so many fans missed it and they never went that route again. The backtracking at the end is so tonally different I can practically HEAR the defense department dictating it

[@kirani111]

Capitalism: "Okay marketing team, how do we take advantage of anti-capitalism sentiment to attract the youths to our products?"

[@RadTrashed]

Capitalism co-opts everything, even its opposition. I mean, you can buy Che Guevara merchandise.

[@mophead_xu]

the irony will never be lost to me, that during ramadan, the month for muslims when it's all about self-control and moderation, so many brands uses the opportunity to promote consumerism using young actors and models aesthetically posed as muslims parading around the newest service or products fit to "stay stylish and look fresh even when fasting" or "gift for yourself or your loved ones, remind them you care for them during this holy month" and any other variations of it.

[@gabbar51ngh]

@@RadTrashed capitalism is superior anyway.

[@thespoondangle]

eh more like how do we market our movies to both 10 year olds and their parents and everyone in between

[@mckenzie.latham91]

@@gabbar51ngh Capitalism is so superior that it oversees one of the worst and largest inequalities on the planet As well, almost every current and ongoing war, genocide, oppression and slavery based event or action in the world even those motivated by religion and or power hungry ambition, are fundamentally endorsed, impacted, carried on, supported and kept functioning by capitalism.

[@ShadowPa1adin]

I wonder if Pentagon/Military support of the MCU is why we only got one Hulk movie. A big part of his old adventures was fleeing/fighting the military and avoiding gov't surveillance.

[@josesosa3337]

So hulk is anti big government. Hulk represents the destructive power of nuclear weapons. He is a weapon that the military is seeking out. Its like the hulk is a draft dodger during the vietnam era. The military wants him for his violent potential. Like a new soldier with potential.

[@toniodejimi3905]

nah that’s a copyright issue

[@josesosa3337]

@@toniodejimi3905 both outcomes can be true but you're probably right.

[@Into_Ingrid]

No, that's because Universal holds the right to distribute a movie with Hulk as the main character. And Universal just didn't want to, for some reason. That's why Hulk's character arc is very spread across multiple movies, and often chopped up, as a secondary character, rather than a main one in his own movies. There was some news about Marvel maybe having the distribution rights back, but idk if that is true, or if they are going to do anything with it yet. There was rumours of a Hulk movie in production.

[@simoneidson21]

@@josesosa3337Most characters in comics have been progressive, but this anti government tendency really popped up in the 70s, but this has been a thing since about the 30s

[@markberryman238]

It's a TV show... just the most high budget TV show of all time

[@Adanmacreates]

Ironically thier actual new Disney Plus show is also the highest budget TV show

[@thedamnedatheist]

And the highest earning.

[@moviesaredope]

Amazon's LOTR: Hold my beer 😂

[@CRydon200]

@@moviesaredope laughing at your own joke is tacky

[@mrpj1390]

And the also the highest grossing as well.......

[@florinivan6907]

The MCU is American exceptionalism lite. Just self aware enough to say 'mistakes were made' but not going so far to say 'maybe we're the villain'.

[@mckenzie.latham91]

or “or if we’re the villain, it’s not our systems, prejudices, selfishness, and apathy, it’s a group of foreign terrorists, super villains, aliens, dark gods and or a literal death cult that’s behind it”

[@wrestlinganime4life288]

@@mckenzie.latham91 the lack of accountability is such an American thing

[@hatefulgaming1800]

Too be fair they are movies made for kids

[@mckenzie.latham91]

@@hatefulgaming1800 most of the MCU films are literally rated pg-13 so that’s not true.

[@cidevant002]

@@hatefulgaming1800 You realize that makes it worse, right?

[@Phule77]

The MCU has the same moral foundation as JK Rowling...The Staus Quo is fine, it's all a matter of having good people running it.

[@alexanderchippel]

I love how everyone defended Captain Marvel as some kind of female empowerment story, while like 90% of it was just propaganda for the Air Force to get little girls to drone strike third world countries while thinking they're superheroes.

[@kaylemathewcomendador6964]

It’s also funny how conservatives went “Capt. Marvel is making things woke now!”, while it being a military funded film kinda messes with that weird notion of theirs.

[@alexanderchippel]

@@kaylemathewcomendador6964 I mean anyone who is really paid attention to the military knows that they kind of became "super woke." what people don't realize is that the hyperinclusiveness of the military isn't due to weakness as conservatives would say, or progressiveness as liberals would hope for, it's because the military industrial complex is evil and seeks to exploit as many people as possible. It's an objective fact that a lot of people in the LGBT community suffer from a lot of mental illnesses. whether the mental illness came first or is a result of mistreatment from society is irrelevant (well it's not it's a very important thing that needs to be figured out, but it's irrelevant to the point I'm trying to make). But the military has been really pushing let through people who probably should not be allowed through. I've heard from people who were involved with recruiters that recruiters are specifically told to just ignore signs of self harm when that should absolutely be a thing that you tell someone they shouldn't join the military because of. I know of people in the service who have attempted to commit suicide and failed and despite the fact that would be immediate grounds for discharge, they had to deal with remaining in the military for months after the fact. My point is that the media and the government will appeal to anyone and everyone for the sake of exploiting them. It's why you see gay pride parade sponsored by Chase Bank. They don't actually care, they just want to exploit another marginalized community

[@lemonov3031]

@@kaylemathewcomendador6964 Both sides are wrong and stupid, while also being controlled by one mastermind. Huh. Almost feels like the system itself is the real issue.

[@zzodysseuszz]

@@kaylemathewcomendador6964t’s woke bc it’s highly pro-illegal immigrant. The whole skrull side plot was just a lazy allegory for why trump bad cos illegal immigrant are good

[@zzodysseuszz]

@@lemonov3031it’s woke tho. That’s not wrong. It just simply is a correct assessment of the film.

[@elenapopovic2527]

Just heads up, america's Indigenous people werent entirely killed off. There's some still alive today, striving and surviving against the odds and they hate the assumption that they dont exist anymore. Because pretending they dont exist allows people to continue to ignore them and the important issues they bring up.

[@i_like_chomp6382]

Lel. It was inevitable once thr Europeans arrived. Those people got wiped out.

[@owo-ob3hz]

@@i_like_chomp6382 "those people got wiped out" have you... never meet a native american? I live no more than an hour from a native american reservation. The cultures and societies they once had has been altered and massive amounts of people were killed, but there are still many living native americans.

[@i_like_chomp6382]

@@owo-ob3hz I don't think you understood my comment

[@devonmunn5728]

@@owo-ob3hz plus they're 1% of the entire population. They are still here

[@devonmunn5728]

@@i_like_chomp6382 Were you being sarcastic? Cause then okay but not all people pick up on sarcasm cause with the internet you can't pick up tones

[@taniamorin4355]

Says a lot about the MCU that the two films most critical of imperialism (though wouldn't go so far as to call them anti-imperialist) were directed by members of the communities most affected by imperialism. Black Panther and Thor Ragnarok. Seriously. Rewatch Thor Ragnarok. It fits much more closely to European imperialism specifically than American but its themes of reckoning with the consequences of imperialism for the imperialists, both good and bad, is pretty interesting. In particular, Hela's scenes in Asgard's throne room with Skurg and Thor.

[@ianwoodall4523]

GOOD GRIEF . Watiti is a Kiwi. Half Maori half Jewish. The whole planet doesn't revolve around your American poisonous racial dynamic. And Liberalism is full of this rot. Judging the content of someone's character by the colour of their skin. Its the opposite of what MLK actually said and its the reason why liberals wont change anything and always back up the right wing.

[@shutupdani]

@@ianwoodall4523 Just say you don’t know anything about Taika Waititi and mind your business. Edit: I’m also sick of the use of MLK when the only speech you can quote is the most popular one with the least “controversial” message. He had a lot more to say about America, politics and race then just “don’t judge me by my skin color.”

[@melize7035]

@@shutupdani 👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽 get him!!

[@TheOneManWhoBeatYou]

@@ianwoodall4523 Don't bother, these people will never be satisfied no matter how much you pander to them because their lives are so pathetic and void of purpose they simply stretch for things to be offended by so they can get a sense of value by "fighting" for it...

[@quirkilyperfect1778]

@@ianwoodall4523 this reply is so so confusing to me. I did not realise its controversial to imply that filmmakers make films somewhat about their identity. Taika's next film is literally Jojo Rabbit which is hugely tied to his jewish heritage and is largely about how they were oppressed in WW2. It's not crazy to say that his Maori (not white Kiwis, but indigenous Kiwis that were largely suppressed by European colonisers and are still fighting to keep their culture on the Kiwi mainstage) heritage had an influence on a scene in which a character literally grandstands about their empire's violent conquest. It's not a value judgement of the white directors (I really like the Russo brothers). It's just an acknowledgment of difference of approach and one guess at where this gap stems from.

[@jogeller5731]

*_finally, my time has come_* I'm from a developing nation and Civil War REALLY rubbed me the wrong way and yet when I brought it up a bunch of Americans and Brits were all down my throat about how no, superheroes *are* an oppressed minority and the other countries of the world were wrong to ask accountability of them. Yeesh.

[@gorimbaud]

Sorry other Americans were shitty to you. Civil War was definitely the movie that got me officially out of love with the MCU, since the underlying imperialism is really hard to miss when a dude wearing an American flag spends the whole movie yelling about how other countries don't have the right to judge his actions.

[@oyinkansolaadebajo9716]

@@gorimbaud Yeah, as someone whose family is from Lagos, it kind of rubbed me the wrong way

[@katherinemorelle7115]

I come from a very different perspective (I’m Australian), but I agree with you. Australia is guilty of most of the same things as the US. Not all, but most. Or if we are guilty of all the same things, not all of them to quite the same degree. Imperialism, colonialism, genocide of our Native Peoples, capitalism destroying society. And while we aren’t a global superpower, our leaders sure do like being a regional power far too much. They’re also so far up America’s arse that they don’t stop to ask how high when the US says “jump”. The only thing America is exceptional at, is being exceptionally self involved. Most people of most other countries at least see the world outside their borders. Americans are extremely insular. Which is perhaps why there are Americans who honestly believe that everyone else looks up to America as the best nation on earth. That American “freedom” (super heavy scare quotes there), is something that the rest of us aspire to. But while I’m concerned for Americans, I’m more concerned for the people America polices (with our help). The results of American-style heavy policing are shitty, regardless of whether they’re inside America, or doing it to the people of other countries. There’s a T-shirt that Beau of the Fifth Column wears that has a message I think many Americans should really work on internalising- “outside of America’s borders do not lie a lesser people”. And I also appreciate his oft-stated idea that America should shift to being the World’s EMT, rather than the World’s Police. A more Wakanda style of a Myer national action- neither imperialism nor isolationism. I’m not holding my breath though.

[@Josh-oj9mm]

I really don't understand how anyone *wouldn't be on caps side*. Yeah the parallels to real life are bad, but in universe, it's the obvious choice. There were literally death cult nazis in every part of every government, and less than two years later tony thinks it's a good idea to be governed by the UN. And they all basically agree that they're going to ignore the accords anyway. He literally brings in spiderman as they're trying to arrest Cap. If they actually paid attention to the law everyone would still be snapped. By the time the UN would let them fight thanos in infinity war he would have gotten all 6 already. And there's also no way they would allow time travel. And even letting the UN know time travel exists is beyond moronic. You then have world superpowers teleporting into the past and bringing back nukes, oil barrels, aircraft carriers, literally every country knowing they can effectively just spawn in anything they want by going back in time and bringing it to the present.

[@gorimbaud]

@@Josh-oj9mm You can't really just dismiss the real life parallels and accept it only on the story's terms when the story is constructed to support its own conclusion. The Avengers need unchallenged authority to act extrajudicially because the story creates circumstances where they wield that unchallenged authority to act extrajudicially, and the story treats any challenge to that authority as an unjust obstacle. It's framing. "We need cops because criminals are so bad" is like the most basic tenet of copaganda. On top of that, "nazi death cult is shown to have infiltrated every level of US government" doesn't really demonstrate "nazi death cult in every level of every government". "Thanos would have all the stones by the time Avengers were approved to act" isn't a huge difference from "Thanos gets all the stones anyway", I don't trust only the Avengers with time travel _either_ when they've demonstrated numerous times how irresponsible they are in basically all they do, while coasting right past any consequences while the rest of the world foots the bill. And finally, Cap being wrong doesn't make Tony right. In fact, Tony's basically always wrong. Even when he has a point or his motives are sympathetic, he's usually still wrong. This is framing, again. Cap is wrong just as often, but the framing and narrative always treat him as morally just. In short, abolish the Avengers.

[@themostdop3533]

Wasn’t Bucky under actual movie mind control when he was killing those people? I thought that’s why Cap said he wouldn’t do that or that he was innocent, because he literally had no agency in the matter.

[@garlgarlic]

But why did the writers write it that way? They’re being paid by the US military, so how does that writing serve the military’s interests?

[@themostdop3533]

@@garlgarlic Because it basically absolves Bucky of culpability, but I feel like rather than address it to make the point better, it was brushed under the table to try and make the point at all. Which feels unnecessary. It's a reading you can definitely have with the script, but I think it works fine even without that approach.

[@mckenzie.latham91]

it’s because they cannot have their heroes ever be wrong and or morally grey

[@MarioUcomics]

@@garlgarlic it’s a comic book adaptation. That how it was in the comic

[@kickbrosmasher5155]

@@garlgarlic it's a comic book adaptation

[@jackdubz4247]

This is why I include Agents Of SHIELD and, to a lesser extent, Agent Carter, as part of the MCU canon. In those two (MCU canon) TV shows it was revealed that Hydra had been around for far longer than WWII and had in fact been a major part of the moneyed elites who came over from Europe at America's foundation and had been part of the American establishment for centuries. No "othering" here, as Hydra is as American as baseball and apple pie. It's one of the more disappointing things from the followup stories to The Winter Soldier - Hydra is always depicted as operating/being based somewhere other than America, be it Sokovia in Age Of Ultron or Siberia in Civil War. On AoS the main Hydra villains are American industrialists with connections to Washington movers and shakers.

[@elpsykoongro5379]

Just like real life

[@Chuck_EL]

​@@elpsykoongro5379 theres videos on here that show neo nazis being giving the red carpet treatment in la and ny ....oh and it was durng ww2

[@Johnny0lovely69]

Reminds me that OG Cobra Commander was an American Fringe tea party leader in America

[@alonsoarana5307]

What I find just stupid is Hydra working with the Soviets, given Hydra probably had the same interests as the MIC and the Nazis, to overthrow communism

[@guywholovesmath]

I feel like winter soldier is in many ways the most antithetical to "just bad apples" in that Steve decides the rot is so intrinsic that he needs to destroy the organization. Now it was somewhat undermined by other "episodes" but post age of ultron, shield is a shadow of it's former self.

[@vanyadolly]

I just watch the Cap movies and pretend the Avengers stuff never happened. Age of Ultron was some BS. And so is SHIELD

[@hashly8521]

haven’t seen the movie in a while, but it’s not even “just bad apples,” tbh, i mean, the big bad weren’t even americans, but sci-fi nazis, foreigners

[@christianbeach8192]

Honestly, it would have been a perfect message without the hydra storyline, post time skip

[@darksidegryphon5393]

The bucket has been spoiled.

[@juliendacoolien3454]

@@hashly8521 Well the Sci-Fi Nazi ideology and organization was foreign, most HYDRA agents were American SHIELD agents.

[@ponderosabones7803]

I've thought of the MCU as a TV series since they started the phases. You can't tell me the phases aren't seasons and the Avengers movies aren't big season finales.

[@handshake180]

"Essentially, war is good for business" Stop this planet, I want to get off

[@JosephSantoro]

As the Ferengi Rules of Acquisition state: Rule #34: War is good for business. Rule #35: Peace is good for business. Rule #36: Neutrality is good for business.

[@Unicron187]

@@JosephSantoro Rule #48: The bigger the smile, the sharper the knife. Rule #110: Exploitation begins at home.

[@crusader2112]

"War Is A Racket"! General Smedley Butler. ✊🏻✊✊🏻

[@DeadDancers]

Don’t worry, wars are great at helping people get off the planet. :/

[@alexanderchippel]

But war is not good for business. At least not in any meaningful way. Governments, on the other hand, love a good war. It keeps people calm, and controlled.

[@ItssMelissa]

I gagged when I heard that woman try and say America was "the light of the world" as if I haven't hated that country since I was a child. Among the many gripes I have with the U.S., they have the audacity to push American Exceptionalism onto us like they're saving us from some evil force that doesn't exist, or worse, that they exemplify. Steve has been one of my favourite characters in the MCU because for me, I always read his story as a critique of America [whether or not it's meant to be read that way]. I read it as showing the dangers of putting trust in a body that only seeks to benefit itself while forgetting about the people it's claiming to protect, seeking control and subsequently letting itself be consumed by the ideals that they claim to fight against. For me, Steve has always been the individual on the outside, who realised the flaws of the system while trying desperately to get in. He would realise that it wasn't his ideals that they were truly looking for, even if that's what they said they wanted. What they wanted was strength, power and control, values he would go on to embody before they let him in; values he would then use for the betterment of the people before rejecting the system altogether once he realised it was beyond reform. Steve Rogers honestly stopped being Captain America for me a long time ago because he did not embody what America represents to me; selfishness, conceit, the facade of freedom and choice, the prioritisation of their own and Only their own. But I'm interested in how others see the story as well, since from how much of the video I've seen so far, it seems like it's going to have a very different take [and so far, I would push back on a couple of the statements made, like I think it's telling that, whether it was intentional by the writers or not, Peggy and Abraham, the two non-Americans, were the only ones willing to give Steve a shot when he was nothing but his ideals]

[@simoneidson21]

The thing is that Cap is meant to represent American ideals rather than the government that so often fails to live up to those ideals

[@ezraelliott2217]

The Winter Soldier is incredibly well-made. Having the quintessential American soldier grapple with the realization that perhaps the flag doesn't own his morality, but the ideals of which Cap assigns himself to. He has to be loyal to something, and The Winter Soldier deconstructs his struggle to stand up for what is truly right, not what America wants him to do. He doesn't give in to paranoia, and when everyone else does, he lifts them above it. Best MCU movie don't try to tell me otherwise.

[@LabradorIndependent]

I honestly wasn't sure if this was going to be a video about Team America World Police or Captain America, but I'm here for it

[@SkipIntroYT]

you've seen through my search engine optimization ploys

[@jamesbarels469]

either way, "Fuck Yeah!"

[@razkable]

@@SkipIntroYT i find it hypocritical that you are using a film to get views then shit on the character and the usa...if you don't like it get out communist...smdh...hate hipsters

[@starlessfae]

@@razkable I love this comment because it makes 0 sense. How dare someone critique a system while participating in it

[@DarthPackman]

America really sees itself alot different then the rest of the world does. The light to the world has to be one of the grossest things I've ever heard.

[@heinoustentacles5719]

It is the most culturally influential at this point. if people talk about it in America they eventually talk about it everywhere else

[@zainlookboonmee]

I was about to write what you said until I saw your comment. I've lived in so many countries around the world, and the only people who see America as this light to the rest of the world or some great example are Americans. The person above me who replied to your comment isn't wrong. American cultural influence is far-reaching as the richest and most powerful nation on Earth. But our point was that this idea of America being a symbol to the rest of world is really silly to most of us outside the States.

[@heinoustentacles5719]

@@zainlookboonmee well you are right now that I think about it. Thanks for clarifying

[@zainlookboonmee]

@@heinoustentacles5719 Cheers mate 🙏✌️

[@YamiFlyZX]

@@zainlookboonmee America is a symbol to the world, though. Its just the oppossite of what Americans think they are. America represents submission to the system, opression, globalism, forced assimilation. They represent the death of culture and individuality, which is ironic considering Americans self view as underdog individualist freedom spreading heroes.

[@Likeomgitznich]

Small footnote/possible correction: when Nat says “we're also the ones best qualified to defend it” she isn’t talking about Americans, she is referring to super powered individuals (who at that point were only americas but still), mainly her and cap. This is the led up to and one of reasons for the Solovia Accords.

[@h2o2630]

Thank you for pointing that out! It was a great highlight of her moral compass

[@jorenvanderark3567]

The fact that shield became so corrupted that its head honcho didn't realise that it was a de facto nazi organisation does not rehabilitate shield, its the harshest condemnation of it that I can imagine. Edit: while the idea that the sokovia accords are a form of police oversight is a good takeaway from the movie it falls apart once you view it from the entire MCU picture (basically Agents of SHIELD) where "heroes" basically identified as "people with powers" are amongst other things - unlawfully detained indefinitely - experimented on without their consent - have their travel right infringed Etc. Etc. All made possible and legal through the sokovia accords. The sokovia accords are an affront to humanity. That being said the way the accords have been presented is rather schizophrenic. Edit to the edit: I'd argue that Wakanda is stepping up as the worlds EMT, wich is something I can get behind. There is no arguing that America (and most European nations as well as China, Australia and some others) are wealthier, more advanced scientifically and medically than the rest of the world. This gives us the means to help those who currently lack the means to help themselves, and doesn't that inherently give us the obligation to help them stand on their own feet, especially since it was us who put them into the dirt in the first place? I think so.

[@sillyking1991]

i partially agree. the practical issue i see with the idea "don't we have a responsibility to help" is that...in large part the reason we're in a position to help is due to that exploitation. if we reverse that and start draining our resources then we quickly stop being in a position to help. i don't say this as an argument that we objectively shouldn't help, only that its far more complicated than just that. its a similar issue with things like universal healthcare. part of the reason we're so rich, and our healthcare is so advanced is due to the greed we allow in it. companies are motivated to innovate because they can make a ton of money off of it. That doesn't mean there isn't anything we can do, and it doesn't mean that we shouldn't act. But we definitely need to consider the consequences of pursuing a course of action that destroys the very reason we're in a position to act in the first place. in short: i agree that there should be something we can do. but i don't think any of the bumper sticker solutions that many people support are ultimately the right call long term.

[@VincoMalus]

As an African American Veteran, all l can good Sir, is🤝🏿Breathtakingly elegant analysis/&dissection📽👑

[@thewoodchipperr]

Brother, when you brought up the military commercial parallels to superhero movies Chefs kiss

[@josesosa3337]

It always felt off when movies treat the military as this awsome thing. I am convinced that micheal bay had some military deal with battleship and transformers.

[@kaseybenge1401]

I had to have a break when that Congress woman quoted Hitler lmao

[@michaelmohamed6739]

that congresswoman did fucking *what*

[@7PlayingWithFire7]

@@michaelmohamed6739 she also said that theres a jewish space lazer starting forest fires in the US Correction: I meant the other one, the qanon lady earlier in the video, not the latter one who quoted hitler. I conflated the two.

[@YouCanNOTvoteOutFascism]

I had to take step back, too. I was like, "wtaf she just say?!?!" I'm pretty much all over politics, but still this is the first I heard if it. Who the hell is she? I can't believe I haven't heard of her till today!

[@SapphWolf]

@@YouCanNOTvoteOutFascism kzbin.info/www/bejne/gmimgoqBnqxkftk There you are.

[@timothycsauer1]

Ya, quoting Hitler or any Leftist is never good.

[@PherseIssac]

This is a really interesting take on the MCU Civil War disagreement between Cap and Tony. Coming at it from the angle of a comics reader I always saw Cap's objection to the Sokovia accords' requirement for registration of super heros as reminiscent of what a guy who fought in WW2 would think. Probably a case of both ideas having truth to them.

[@ericpayne4424]

When Cap says Bucky couldn’t have killed people it’s not him saying that literally; it’s him saying Bucky wouldn’t have killed people (at least so brazenly) by choice. He was under mind control. He was literally a fleshy robot carrying out programming.

[@CaptainPikeachu]

Problem is at that moment, Steve doesn't know if Bucky might have been controlled by someone else to do bad things. So yeah, it still could have been Bucky, even if he wasn't willingly doing it.

[@theeternalwanderer190]

That point always annoys me in discussions about the Winter Soldier where people seem to not understand the concept of brain washing in the MCU which meant Bucky literally had no control over his actions when brain-washed and is therefore not guilty of them.

[@fellinuxvi3541]

​@@CaptainPikeachuThat's not a problem, that's Cap being right.

[@sunshineeee]

The thing is that Cap doesn’t know it to be entirely true yet, thus is operating on blind faith to the man he once knew. It only works as being right and a great moral move because the movie will reward him with being right. It works because we know him to be right before he even finds out, since we’ve already seen what’s happened to Bucky-but in the one to one situation where we take out the context we already know, and look objectively from Steve’s info set, it’s just the “I know him so it’s okay” thing.

[@sillyking1991]

not entirely blind faith. he knew that bucky had been brainwashed and controlled from winter soldier. he also knew that that control was faltering from their interaction at the end of winter soldier. in their first meeting bucky didn't recognize cap at all, nor hesitate to go after him. contrast that with bucky's behavior on the helicarrier where he was hesitant, and ultimately chose to spare Cap. arguably Cap doesn't know that bucky saved him, he was unconcious, but its not crazy to assume that bucky could have killed cap, as his "programming" would have dictated at that point. obviously he can't "know" in terms of having 100% proof, but he has more reason to believe in his friend than just blind faith in the man he'd known ~70 years prior. @@sunshineeee

[@willschneider4616]

Wait, I thought the subtext of Hydra being a thriving part of SHIELD was that it was an allegory for the US ultimately having a lot of the same systemic problems with racism and fascism as Nazi Germany. Hydra in SHIELD wasn't just a few bad apples, it was the senior leadership, it was the Strike Force (SHIELD's version of boots on the ground), it was senior and mid-level bureaucrats, and it was politicians. Plus, we see Bucky being brainwashed so that even our friends can be on the side of fascism if they're not careful. Leaving aside the questions of the use of violence to solve problems (a bit of a problem in a movie for children) and the idea of one perfect white dude coming to save everyone because the powerful should be free to do what he wants (I've got Ayn Rand on line 1), this is why I enjoy The Winter Soldier so much. It's a scathing critique of current US leadership and culture as being fully integrated with fascism without a lot of us acknowledging it, and says that if there's a true spirit of the potential good in America they should be tearing the system down. Honestly, it's shocking they managed to sneak that message through.

[@SkipIntroYT]

I think they're definitely going for that at times, but then they do back off completely in the conclusion of the episode when they say "yeah we got a right to police the world even though we've essentially inseparable from Hydra." I also think that it stops short of actually saying America is explicitly tied to fascism by making all of the characters we know totally unaware and coding all of Hydra in foreign imagery (nazis/soviets).

[@willschneider4616]

@@SkipIntroYT That's true. You're definitely right that the Black Widow speech at the end really does a lot of damage to the messages of the movie. And hydra does come off as somewhat foreign in some ways, though where the line is I can't really say. Pierce looks like a US capitalist and the Strike Team look like US cops, but Buck comes off vaguely Soviet and certainly Zola is straight up a Nazi. Really great video. Keep up the good work and hopefully you get a bunch of subscribers and patreons for all the work.

[@markmatson]

I haven't watched the video yet, so don't want to get too deep. But I've always thought one of the advantages fantasy has in social commentary is the ability to make the subject object, which according to Kegan moves up a level of cognition. Too me, that is what Hydra in SHIELD was doing. That's also why Cap thought all of SHIELD had to go, it was fundamentally corrupt. But I also get how many people see it as an example of a "few bad apples".

[@swanpride]

@@SkipIntroYT Have you watched Agents of Shield? Especially the Agents of Hydra arc? There is no question what Hydra is meant to stand for in the MCU. They even go so far...SPOILER..... ... ... ... To have Hydra members quote the Trump administration and have characters saying "Hydra are Nazis". Just in case someone didn't get the point. And naturally there is the fact that The Winter Soldier was released at the same time the NSA affair happend (which is kind of scary considering that they couldn't know that when they filmed the movie).

[@galactic85]

@@willschneider4616 you raise good points. I forgot that nick fury is literally attacked by a group of hydra agents posing as cops in "winter soldier." Still I do think a lot of "foreign coding" is present in the movie and its import to recognize he that fascism manifests and spreads in america by explicitly co-opting patriotic imagery. There is a reason why can find photos of modern day white supremacist rallies featuring people carrying American flags that have swastikas painted on them. Overall the messaging is muddled i. The movie and this isnt helped by the fact that in the original winter soldier story line that the film is adapting from the comics, Bucky Barnes was explicitly a brainwashed russian operative rather than a hydra agent.

[@Salsmachev]

I personally like Doctor Strange, who was morally opposed to killing anyone, was horrified after he killed an evil wizard in a case of undeniable self-defence, and actually ended up saving the world by letting himself get killed over and over again indefinitely rather than by fighting head on. And then they destroyed all of that in the most ironic way possible. They took Infinity Gauntlet, a comic in which Dr. Strange, along with Adam Warlock, was one of the masterminds behind a plan to defeat Thanos through guile and mystical shenanigans, and then adapted it into a film where Dr. Strange is totally fine with violence, and ends up encouraging the Avengers to preemptively kill Thanos. Then again, it's a bit nitpicky to focus on Dr. Strange when Infinity War was kind of a thematic clusterfuck in general. If Thanos' goal was to end scarcity, he could have pursued less ridiculously destructive methods of solving that problem such as destroying the galactic bourgeoisie (hey then he'd still be enemies with Iron Man) or using his power to help people. In fact, had his goal been outright constructive like "get the infinity stones so that I have ultimate cosmic power and then use that power to feed everyone forever" he'd have had massive popular support and only the modest opposition of the people who need scarcity in order to exploit people (y'know, bad guys). But they'd have no story the second way and a risk of the workers realising that scarcity comes from bourgeois expropriation the first way, so instead they made Thanos the Über Thomas Malthus, leading to a resurgence in the popularity of we-totally-promise-we're-not-promoting-eugenics-to-avoid-criticising-capitalism flavoured "population control" (otherwise known as genocidal forced sterilisation) arguments.

[@galactic85]

I need to read the infinity gauntlet comic at some point. I never got around to it as a kid so I didn't even know who Thanos was when I saw the first avengers film in high school and they teased him in the post credits scene. Sounds like I made a mistake passing it up.

[@Salsmachev]

@@galactic85 It's not spectacularly good- most of it is basically what if we got ALL of the action figures and smashed them together! But there are some interesting points. Thanos' whole schtick is that he's in love with death, and there's some fascinating stuff surrounding that idea. Adam Warlock's arc (especially in the sequel, in which he puts himself on trial for not being worthy of the gauntlet) is pretty interesting as well.

[@aliciaaltair]

I agree with you about Dr. Strange, and another great thing about his actions in that movie is that practically no one knows what he did and he doesn't feel the need to tell anyone or look for thanks.

[@lukecheshire2299]

Scarcity comes from not being good at hunting, scavenging, fighting or having technology that helps (think GM food). Anything else is an excuse for your own short comings.

[@jeniferjoseph9200]

@@lukecheshire2299 That’s so historically and geographically inaccurate it hurt to read

[@JohnTaylor-fh4et]

It's to protect America's financial interests, period. The people be damned.

[@IN-tm8mw]

Great Video, media is essentially "Soft Power" and that currently how most nations have moved towards waging war for dominance in building cultural attraction, reinforcing ideals and creating media exports. This video does an excellent job of highlighting the subversive themes of the MCU, but remember everyone, its not just the MCU. Foreign and domestic media all have it.

[@MonteaNoLipton]

Spiderman looks at Buckey: "cool arm!" Spiderman looks at Falcon: "you have the right to remain silent!" I'm just saying...very interesting wording 🤔

[@user_2793]

Oh no

[@JauntyAdventures]

Finally someone agrees with my the mcu is just tv with extra steps.

[@racewiththefalcons1]

And charges people a large chunk of their weekly pay each time they want to view it, because capitalism.

[@tshidi129]

It's also trash meant for kids

[@publicguy1664]

I'm fully aware of our foreign policy and police policy. Our imperialism is about geo-political control. Its never about justice or human rights. Its all about jacking resources.

[@DaveJacoby]

An interesting thing to me is that there are three MCU Avengers with modern (post- WWII) military experience. Carol Danvers was a USAF pilot. James Rhodes is a USAF pilot. Sam Wilson was para-rescue, which is how the USAF saves downed pilots. I'm not 100% sure about why the copaganda isn't more spread around the armed forces, but it's clear.

[@banjaxed8334]

I never realised before that black panther equates Wakanda giving black liberation movements the means to defend themselves to the US giving fascists the means to carry out genocidal campaigns. They really did a boths sides with that one.

[@Katfish1216]

This

[@aaronyayger]

?????????? They weren't "defending themselves." Self defense isn't killing and destroying innocent actors in a system that is unfeeling and is not intentional. There are no "oppressors" in America besides maybe politicians. Kill monger was giving weapons to people so they would riot and cause Anarchy and take control of world governments. You're lost in the sauce, my guy.

[@Can_O_Crayola]

But they weren't "black liberation movements" and it wasn't to "defend themselves". Killmonger flat out stated that he was arming minority groups across the world to start armed insurrections to overthrow their governments, fully knowing that it was going to be massacres of innocent people on both sides. He didn't give a shit about anyone or anything, and his entire plan was one giant middle finger to the world out of resentment towards both the nation that abandoned him and the governments that he viewed as murdering colonizers. "What If" goes further to show that his insurrection, even augmented by Stark tech and without any Avengers to intervene, is completely destroyed and Wakanda burnt to the ground. Even at his best possible timeline, Killmonger loses and accomplishes absolutely nothing. Did he make good points? Absolutely. Wakanda was a nation of hypocrites and murderers by dint of inaction. T'Chaka chose isolationism and ignored the problems that would create Killmonger in the first place. Even to the current MCU canon, they remain to an extent hypocrites. A nation of technologically advanced isolationists that deliberately chose inaction while their fellow Africans were enslaved has no business calling anyone a colonizer or complaining about what white men do when they're arguably just as at fault for the centuries of slavery and prejudice their brothers and sisters suffered just because they weren't as lucky to get born next to a super shiny meteorite mountain. Even the steps towards redeeming Wakanda of its sin were completely undone after Chadwick Boseman's death/writing-out. There's no denying that the world governments are corrupt and prejudiced, there's no denying the reality of the racism that still exists today. The problems that Erik talked about were all true, every single one of them. But just because he made good points about the hypocrisy of the world doesn't mean anything he did was justified or that he himself was in the right. For a black freedom fighter, he sure didn't give any shit at all about his "brothers" and "sisters", even those who took his side from the beginning. His only plan to "liberate" his people from the injustices of the world was to arm them with technology they didn't understand and throw them against literally anyone who had a different skin color or got in the way. It wasn't a freedom fighter movement of plucky, underdog peoples fighting for the liberty they longed for...it was a selfish, homicidal maniac using race as an excuse to radicalize minority victims into attacking the things he hated. He had no plan, no long-term goal, it was literally just "give everyone a gun and watch as the world burns itself alive". Hell, he literally manufactured discontent in Wakanda by interfering with Klaue's arrest, when T'Challa would've otherwise been able to keep his promise and maintain unity in the country. Rocket's quote about the High Evolutionary fits Erik perfectly. He didn't give a rat's ass about making anything better for anyone, he just hated how things were and was bitter about his lot. All the self-destructive, selfish, egotistical gangster mentality from the streets he grew up in, and none of the self-sacrifice and empathy that actual, true leaders of minority civil rights have had. Anyone thinking that Killmonger was in the right at any point missed the entire point of the movie and T'Challa's character arc.

[@fellinuxvi3541]

I mean it really didn't. This comment doesn't really grasp the position of either black panther or killmonger.

[@banjaxed8334]

@@fellinuxvi3541 oh well you've convinced me

[@adammyers7383]

One of the things that genuinely bothered me about Captain America in the MCU was how the narrative never forced him to confront whether or not he was doing the right thing. Instead, it handed that decision off to the audience, and kept him mostly the same, showing that he has always been worthy of Mjolnier (I’m not sure it’s spelled that way). As for Spider-Man, I’d argue that Jon Watts’ Spider-Man solo movies desperately try to embody the Spider-Man that Tobey Maguire’s films do. But the Russo movies’ Spidey is the one pushed to be the heir to Tony Stark. Remember that both Homecoming and Far From Home are forced to work off what the Russo movies establish, which both times directly links Peter’s story to Tony’s, including him giving Peter a brand new suit both times. And in both solo movies, Peter is forced to examine his relationship to Iron Man and re-establish the fact that Peter is not an industry leader billionaire, but is his own person with his own morals and goals. Including, in his solo movies, refusing to kill the people who are victims of the Americas both Tony and Steve represent respectively-while in the team-up movies, he’s fine it’s it (and yes, I’m including Mysterio, as there is no implication that Peter would have treated him any different from Vulture if he hadn’t shot himself) I’m not saying that disproves what you’re saying about him cuz it doesn’t, I’m just saying it’s interesting to examine.

[@Powerman293]

Reinforcing this is the end of No Way Home, absolutely nuking any sort of connections Peter would have to the elite.

[@rashb3994]

The problem with Black Panther's ending is letting the world know what they have and sharing it versus just helping the world in stealth mode which they could've done. Wakanda sharing it's resources is just a US military fantasy ending and T'Challa in theory put Wakanda in jeopardy with this action. The military would use this opportunity to get an understanding of Wakandas tech and layout, then make up a reason to eventually invade Wakanda if they couldn't manipulate their way to getting their hands on vibranium. The ending made me cringe in that sense. Killmonger was half right and so was T'Challa which is why I thought the compromise would be stealth help and stealth interventions. This is a fascinating series you have. I'm subscribing. Thx!

[@TheKeyser94]

And let not forget the little fact that T'Challa allied himself with the fucking CIA, you know, the organisation that have been killing African leader and imposing dictatorships in the region.

[@rashb3994]

@@TheKeyser94 Oh dang, that's a great point!!!

[@barrykane7844]

@@TheKeyser94 Uhhhhh Killmonger was literally a CIA agent himself. He was himself one of those agents destabilizing countries.

[@TheKeyser94]

@@barrykane7844 He is more like Jason Bourne CIA than what T'Challa had become, Killmonger despised the Agency and what they done to Africa, so not make my argument less valid.

[@barrykane7844]

@@TheKeyser94 He tattooed his fucking body with the people he murdered, he didn't despise the agency at all. He was just upset that the CIA wasn't his. T'Challa is allied with exactly one milquetoast CIA agent and he's forever bad but Killmonger can be a CIA agent himself and that's okay, it's for the goal of creating his OWN imperialist empire?

[@Ren_Davis0531]

53:48 "In our minds we have the moral high ground..." In our minds, we are Obi-Wan, but in reality we are Anakin.

[@predalienmack]

As over the top and poorly written as a lot of the writing of the prequels were, the comparison of America being the corrupted and murderous Anakin while thinking it was the principled and logical Obi-Wan is actually extremely appropriate. The clash between the idealism of propagandized reality pushed by the US government and the capitalist media vs. the real cost and impact of capitalism and imperialism around the world is one of the most important contradictions for people to understand in the world today so that the world can be changed for the better. Anakin believes he is fighting a corrupt and stagnant Galactic Republic and Jedi Order, while in reality he is ushering in a genocidal fascist empire ruled with an iron fist, which contradicts all the ideals that the Republic claimed to uphold in the first place. Obi-Wan on the other hand tries to uphold these lofty ideals of democracy and freedom, while allowing fascism to quite literally flourish right under his nose. This results in the deaths of most of the people he cares for and the death of the governmental system he is sworn to protect. Both Anakin and Obi-Wan are flawed in how they uphold their ideals to their core, so whether America upholds one or the other still results in it being flawed and needing radical change to right its course.

[@diyagore1784]

The prequels could have been great, they just needed a couple of other people to reign in George Lucas.

[@crusader2112]

@@diyagore1784 The Prequels are great. Long Live The Prequels! God Bless George Lucas!

[@WorldGovernmentGeoInstitut]

The worst rhing about Star Wars was the concept of The Force.

[@crusader2112]

@@WorldGovernmentGeoInstitut Could you elaborate on that point? I've never heard it before.

[@eastsidereviews727]

Curious when Batman will get the Copaganda treatment.

[@darkservantofheaven]

Batman as in Dark Knight trilogy? Or the Gotham tv series?

[@sinistertwister686]

@@darkservantofheaven Batman the Animated Series?

[@Salsmachev]

@MX 3 Or better yet he could literally just turn Wayne Enterprises into the world's biggest international collective so that the workers would reap the full product of their labour, establishing something like syndicalist dual authority and beginning the process of destroying global capitalism.

[@andrewcapra7153]

Decades ago in The Dark Knight Returns

[@Skyfoogle]

@@Salsmachev something that no business owner has ever done ever, leftist or rightist

[@fangal12]

I would love to see a Copaganda episode on Law & Order. It's one of my favorite police procedurals but the Copaganda is strong in that one

[@Kelis98]

An interesting perspective. Also Buckey was brainwashed while he killed a lot of those people, so it’s hard to blame him for those death’s if he wasn’t in control of his actions.

[@andresomerville4896]

When Japan makes anime about superheroes they don't hold strictly to the vigilante aspect of the archetype. The heroes are accountable to governments and institutions. One Punch Man and My Hero Academia both have licencing systems for their heroes.

[@WorldGovernmentGeoInstitut]

The Japanese are also pretty darn Orwellian when portraying their franchises. Dunno if they do that without putting any thought to what they do but I'd like to think they don't, otherwise some of them are totalitarian as hell.

[@andresomerville4896]

@@WorldGovernmentGeoInstitut like attack on titan for example

[@WorldGovernmentGeoInstitut]

@@andresomerville4896 Yeah, you've got Dragon Ball Super were there's an Emperor of the universe (not talking about Frieza but another octopus looking character) and then you've got the "Galactic Patrol." That's Orwellian as hell. At least One Piece and Akame Ga Kill subvert that by going more directly against those in power.

[@enzojose4001]

@@WorldGovernmentGeoInstitut Bleach is very fascist. The protagonist (ichigo) fight to defend soul society, but it was established many times that soul society is a fascist government that uses the soul of poor people for experiments and has a very segregatory system. One of the good guys (mayuri) is literally a scientist based in a nazi medic.

[@enzojose4001]

@@andresomerville4896 Attack on titan author defend the japanese colonialism in Korra/china during world war II and said many times that attack on titan is based in the fight of Japan during world war II.

[@BrightesteFaeri]

“That’s a healthy crunch” SENT ME

[@StNick119]

No you don't understand someone just took a bite out of an apple off-camera

[@alexanderwill2847]

For me it was * The Face of Remorse *

[@crusader2112]

@@StNick119 😂😅🤣

[@galactic85]

Great episode! I agree with a lot of the points you bring up. And I ESPECIALLY agree about how the mcu portrays Spider-Man. He's one of my favorite superheroes as well as the changes they made to him really harm the character in my opinion. With that said, here are a few thoughts. 1. Superheroes are cops That really depends. I personally wouldn't call a character like Thor or Dr. Strange a cop considering cops dont fight demons and dragons that want to eat the entire planet. You wouldn't call Perceus or Hercules a cop even though they face down threats. BUT superheroes definitly take on similar roles to cops in a lot of their stories and tend to rely primarily on violence to solve the problems. I can't remember how many times I've read a comic where a vigilante like daredevil punched a drug dealer in the face, and now that I'm older and I've learned more about the war on drugs I've really started to ask myself why that is so often the norm and how 'just' that course of action really is. My point is that how "copish" a superhero is depends a lot on which character you are reading about which is probably why you dont discuss guardians of the galaxy in this episode. 2. Regarding Captain America. The one thing I wish you would have talked about is how steve doesn't correspond with the traditional uber masculine idea that we associate with the american soldier. There is an interesting article I have read that discusses his steve doesnt correspond to a traditional idea of "masculinity" that was much more prominent and accepted in the 1940's. In some ways I would argue that while captain america upholds values of american exceptionalism he also subverts them. This is most notable in his choice of weapon. He uses a SHEILD throughout the movies. A defensive weapon. We only see him use a side ark a couple of times and it's much smaller in comparison to the large machiene guns that his fellow soldiers are packing. 3. The normalization of murder In the 60's comics it was much rarer to see characters like iron man murder a guy, and the characters tended to have nonlethal technology. This was partially because of the comics code. It's interesting how nowadays that aspect has been abandoned. If Tony's whole character arc is learning the damage that his weapons caused wouldn't it make sense to have him develop high tech tools designed for restraint or sedation rather than making new ways to kill people? Likewise we see black widow and captain america and falcon murdering people pretty frequently. The enemies are disposable NPC's treated as mere obstacles and we dont focus much on their pain. There isnt much difference between the death of a henchmen in winter soldier and the death of a chitari. I think the capacity to dehumanize your enemy is VITAL to any piece of copaganda.

[@SkipIntroYT]

Thanks for the thoughts!! - I totally agree that calling Dr. Strange and Thor cops is a stretch, which is why I stayed away from talking about them in this video (and also why Thor is my favorite of the main Avengers. Gotta love how Ragnarok interrogates colonial past). But I think the idea holds true for the MCU because of how much it centers Captain America/Iron Man. Those are the two main characters and their relationship is the single strongest through line of the series. - I actually did read some literature about Steve’s subversive masculinity (he loves art and stuff) specifically in a great article about “good” vs “bad” eugenics in the genesis of the character in the comics. Ultimately, I decided that those ideas are not that prominent in the movies, and while threads of that idea are in there somewhere, they’re not foregrounded the way other themes are. His choice of weapon is a great point, and I should have pointed that out explicitly because it is what I was going for with saying he was the ideal version of American Exceptionalism. - The normalization of murder is a huge problem too, and something that I’ve touched on in other episodes without ever explicitly focusing on-but it’s a great note going forward! Thank you so much for this!

[@casteanpreswyn7528]

@@SkipIntroYT that was my biggest problem with Steve in the movies. He is NOT the Steve I know. The Steve I know is a sensitive artist who would rather talk someone down than fight them, but in the MCU he's just a typically masculine man in a frail body until the eugenics comes in to make him the "perfect man".

[@galactic85]

@@SkipIntroYT oh wow I didn't expect you to respond! I'm glad you appreciated my thoughts and that some of what I mentioned may be brought up in future videos, like the normalization of murder. Keep up the good work! This series has been amazing and I'm so glad that the algorithm suggested it to me! Also sorry for some of the typos in my original post. I wrote everything on my phone.

[@brianstorm5488]

@@SkipIntroYT And Steve is pretty pro LGTB in the Endgame support group with Russo as the gay man dating again. Which I liked.

[@drno87]

I'm torn on the non-lethal technology. The prospect of a big climactic battle scene where no one dies skirts a dangerous fantasy of violence without consequences. In a campier setting like Adam West's Batman or the A-Team it's okay. For a more serious tone, just bringing an Iron Man or Thor into the fight means accepting a good amount of collateral damage, never mind the primary target. On the other hand, a superhero movie where violence wasn't cool wouldn't fit so well into the MCU.

[@alistairgrey5089]

You missed a piece of dialogue where the Stark foundation does help people who are harmed by the actions of the Avengers.

[@parkerwhite3867]

This was a great watch. Deep dive, I loved it. On the subject, I've always thought Captain America was representative of America's Best Qualities. He isn't racist or misogynistic, not intimidated by wealth, not grasping. I don't think MCU Cap ever even through a first punch. This was great. Thank you.

[@troyoboyo17]

This has been the best analysis of anything MCU related. Everything you’ve had to say... perfection

[@katherinemorelle7115]

Tom Holland is adorable, but I miss SpiderMan being a working class hero. And this video reminds me of something Beau of the Fifth Column says fairly often- that America should shift from being the World Police to being the worlds EMT. And it’s an idea that meshed well with the Wakanda way of doing things- neither isolationist nor imperialist. Helping countries, not forcing their might on them. Also, that crazy congresswoman makes me laugh. America is the light of the world that everyone looks up to??? As a non American, I can’t help but laugh. Every day, I’m thankful that I’m not American. Mostly because I’d be dead by now if I were- it’s bloody expensive to be disabled, even in a country with universal healthcare. Without it? I’d be completely screwed. I look at the US with concern, not wonder or gratitude. Not so exceptional, really.

[@nasonaso8356]

All hail our American overlords! All hail their decisions on how we should live! All follow wathever they say, for they're wise and free, and we're inferior and stupid!

[@AmS-c5z]

They did spider-man dirty. I'd rather have a spidey-less MCU than an iron man 2.0. They should have made another season of spectacular spider-man instead of this elite class spidey.

[@thejudgmentalcat]

I'm an American and I agree with you. That Jeff Daniel's monologue (I forget the name of the movie) should have shocked every American citizen into reality. Instead, it created Trump and the absolute worst they could turn into.

[@larryfoulkeofficial8609]

This was high school peter lol

[@dexterwestin3747]

I really wish more people felt the way you do because people keep coming here to the US with no end in sight and it is getting increasingly overcrowded.

[@nathanscott3339]

I like your argument that the MCU is a TV series. However, I still would love you to do other videos about movies as well when appropriate. The title of this video alone implies that Team America: World Police would be relevant to the copaganda series as well. And I just enjoy your analysis in general, so even 500 Days of Summer would be fun. The channel might be a focus on TV shows but some movie stuff would be good too, particularly when it does tie into otherwise TV show comparisons.

[@SkipIntroYT]

i'd consider it if i wasn't so stubborn

[@nathanscott3339]

@@SkipIntroYT Call some of them extended TV specials? I mean, you think about something like Serenity and it really did come off as just a giant episode of Firefly. Conversely, Wandavision feels more like an extended MCU film than a TV show. I think the line is blurring a lot these days especially since TV has become so much more respected as a medium.

[@SkipIntroYT]

@@nathanscott3339 it's definitely a bit of a commitment to the bit and things are becoming so much more blurred now. The reason I focus on TV is because of how ingrained it is in our society. Most houses have a room entirely situated around a TV, we put it on in the background, and it's in our lives for years and seasons on end. I think the limited series (like a wandavision) are much more like films because they do kind of miss out on the time element that makes TV, well, TV

[@nathanscott3339]

@@SkipIntroYT That is fair. I still think some movies do fall into this though and should be addressed, particularly when they relate to any given TV centric topic. Like if certain kinds of TV shows are popular in the era, it is worth looping in the movies that go with them, like Dirty Harry in the 70s for cop shows. To ignore them entirely does feel like leaving a part of the discussion on the table. And any related "sub series" that does movies can have a cute name like Skip Intro too. Maybe "Pause for Popcorn" or something, just to denote it as being a separate series under the Skip Intro umbrella.

[@StNick119]

@@SkipIntroYT I respect this kind of commitment to a specialty. And I feel kind of like there are already loads of film analysts on KZbin compared to TV analysts. Folding Ideas, Lindsay Ellis, Red Letter Media, Renegade Cut, so on. I can't think of anyone who consistently deals with TV. So you're also fulfilling an important niche in KZbin's ecosystem.

[@smithbakare5437]

"Well, if you don't like the US being run by Hydra, why don't you just leave. Just go to Canada and be Captain Canada" LOL! Any Ben Shabibo reference just gives me life 🤣🤣🤣

[@sameerkashyap1750]

Steve wanting to tear down Shield, deciding none of it is worth saving, is the most radical MCU is ever going to be. Like period. It still skirts around the question about America, but I will take it.

[@chilldude2239]

I'm seriously angery that your copaganda series isn't getting millions and millions of views when it comes out. This is my favorite thing on KZbin right now.

[@tristanlatham2595]

Can't wait for the True Detective breakdown! If you haven't already, check out a book called True Detective and Philosophy: A Deeper Kind of Darkness, it's awesome

[@ProphetVictory]

Again, consistent greatness! This series needs to go into syndication.

[@TheSoundonly12]

What do you mean Tony didn't sacrifice any of his money to help people who had been hurt in the aftermath of superhero scuffles? He created Stark Relief Foundation right after the Battle of New York, its work is mentioned in Age of Ultron after the Johannesburg event (Tony: "Stark Relief Foundation?" Hill: "Already on the scene". That's like an hour after the thing happened). The Foundation later helped Sokovia and its citizens and the victims of the Snap. (Why don't people make even a tiny effort to pay attention to detail when they watch AoU is beyond me. That movie is all about the detail and dialogue. And it has some of the best dialogue of the whole franchise, if nothing else). Other than misinterpreting Iron Man :D, great analysis. Watched the whole hour and have no regrets.

[@valentinasalazartena9809]

My thoughts exactly! Tony was for sure the most aware about the harm and about protecting the people. He was not perfect at all and a lot of the "He solves the problems he himself created" is true in certain cases, but he was for sure backing his words with actions and money. Also he was implementing preventive measures like having a plan to control the Hulk, smashing him against the building he had bought in the area and as you said the Stark Relief. He was also investing his technology in mental health and therapy at the beginning of Civil War. He was for sure in that path long before the conflict with Steve. Not to mention him being proactive about the Thanos situation since the first battle of New York. The way I see it the "problems he created" either came from his past before being Iron Man, weird vendettas people had against him like Mysterio in far from home or his sloppy attempts to prevent Thanos. His main character flaw during all this period (that caused the creation of Ultron amongst other issues) for me was that he always felt he had to do it alone and worked in secrecy, prompted by his ego and stubbornness but also his past trauma and reputation. Keeping his cards to himself was for sure an advantage and virtue in certain cases but his overall secrecy and self isolation is what gave him the most trouble inside of the Avengers and in general in life.

[@TheSoundonly12]

@@valentinasalazartena9809 True. He has this terrible (but also kinda beautiful) trait that I like to call "If not me, then who?". He bears the world on his shoulders when no one ever asked him to. His (understandable) trust issues make it hard for him to delegate anything, and he's just one man. He had trusted Stane to run his business for him, and Stane betrayed him. He had trusted SHIELD to protect the world when he tried to step back after IM 3, had given them his tech, and SHIELD turned out to be Hydra. In AOU he lost his trust in himself, in СW - in his team, and was left with just himself again, but he wasn't enough on his own. It's a pattern with him, biting off more than he can chew with sometimes very serious consequences. But the other side of the "If not me, then who?" thing is that he never stops caring. It's interesting that you mentioned the "He solves the problems he himself created" thing. I feel like it is blown out of proportions even in-universe, not just in fandom interpretations. Vanko's grievance was with Tony's father and not him, Hammer was just jealous, Mysterio and Killian's grudges were laughable, Wanda and Pietro should have looked up who actually bombed their house, not concentrated on the person who made the bombs (it's like blowing up Kalashnikov's office because someone shot your family with a Kalashnokov rifle). But Tony is a convenient place to lay the blame on, his guilt complex makes him eat it all up and ask for more.

[@valentinasalazartena9809]

@@TheSoundonly12 Wow that “If not me, then who?” Is incredibly powerful. I agree, I think it makes him such a fascinating character. I like to imagine his regular life trying to just live and having the visions he saw during the battle of New York flash before his eyes. It’s like these people that become obsessed with preparing for the end of the world, but don’t even know when it´s coming. Is it tomorrow? In 10 years? Will it be in my lifetime? except Tony isn’t even trying to survive, he beliefs he has the power to stop it. That’s an unbearable responsibility I don’t think the rest of the characters understood. I think while the American exceptionism and the points of the video are totally valid but when it comes to the analysis of the character of Tony I think that are deeper levels of questions to ask and to understand his evolution. And i completely agree with the whole “Tony created the bad guys” In most of the cases its more like the bad guys got intoxicated with the idea of revenge and Tony was an overly public easy target. I bet if tomorrow I announced to the world that I am the biggest super hero on earth a lot of people I might had bumped heads with, guys I have turned down or people who are grasping to the hope of finding a scape goat would have a lot to say about me hahaha. I personally think its just lazy writing, they even extended it to after his death in far from home. They’re like - “well, we need a motivation for this villain, how about Tony Stark didn’t hold the elevator door for them 15 years ago?” And the Wanda and Pietro thing is so true. I have never thought about it that way, it makes it kind of hilarious.

[@randomusername3873]

I love how people pretend steve rogers represents america when he spent most of his movies disobeying the government or even running from it

[@noizetv4240]

You may never know just how life changing this video has been to me.

[@Advent3546]

Avengers movie comes out. SkipIntro: What is this? A crossover episode?

[@rabnerd28]

The Captain America arc started out meh, but had a really strong midpoint. The issue is the ending which is just a hot mess. The fight didn't have the same emotional weight that they were intending because the relationships didn't stick during the crossover arcs.

[@Nunyo-Bizznez]

That’s partly because, originally, there was supposed to be a real captain America three. Captain America serpent society. But I got canned and replaced with Civil War, which is barely a captain America movie . I’ve heard rumors it has to do with Robert Downey Jr.‘s ego and some corporate meddling, but I wouldn’t know for sure. I only know, that as a captain America fan, I miss the serpent society movie every day ... The MCU in general continually robbed Steve Rogers of personality and character arcs. You can see in every movie that all his most human scenes end up in the deleted scenes . I DK why they did this .

[@kickbrosmasher5155]

Bad taste

[@PlutosTimeslot]

As someone who is writing a superhero story in my free time, this has been a great way to go over the many flaws of superhero stories. I didn't even realize most of these. Very informative video. Thank you! :)

[@StephenLeGresley]

You should do one of these for the DC films. Suicide Squad as a prime example but also Aquaman, Batman, Cyborg, Wonder Woman and Superman in those films stand for some very problematic and in same cases good productive ideas.

[@KennethTakanami]

You nailed that two things can be true - the MCU can be both military-backed propaganda and can also be genuinely fun and enjoyable movies. I've been dying to see a true leftist critique of the franchise, one that doesn't dismiss them outright. I think a lot of leftist voices that never even give these films a chance fail to understand there's no ethical media consumption. This is one of the best video essays I've seen on any Marvel film, bravo.

[@avenger4027]

"Military-backed propaganda" that shits on government and military... Wow.

[@scholarssolutions6735]

@@avenger4027 did you not watch the video? Propaganda isn't always about being outright "the government and the military are the best things ever uwu" otherwise far more people would see right through it. Sometimes it requires a little critical analysis.

[@blitzkriegdragon013]

Wasn’t Cap’s main argument that the case should actually be investigated and not immediately say it’s Bucky? Like he wanted actual judicial laws to be followed, but knew he wouldn’t get that.

[@galactic85]

Not exactly. In the movie a world wide manhunt is initiated to locate barnes. That's pretty much established procedure. Cap just takes it on himself to bring his friend in.

[@mikemorro140]

@@galactic85 If I remember right he wanted to bring him in because he assumed Bucky would be killed on the spot which is why he tried to bring him in peacefully and when Bucky is caught he was considering just letting the government keep him until Bucky was messed with by Zemo

[@nazzygage]

@@mikemorro140 Sharon Carter says the orders are to shoot on site

[@PredatorH2O]

Also if it was him it would be the Winter Soldier, not Bucky.

[@wca17]

I watched Curio's video about superheroes as monsters just before this and I feel like it's a great companion piece talking about similar things.

[@gabrielandriel8960]

To bad that Curios's vídeo is wrong in a lot of ways and there is moments that she lies and omite information to make a point

[@michaelstewart4461]

I think it's pretty unfair to compare Cap protecting Bucky from blame for a crime he didn't commit because Bucky killed people when literally not in his right mind and being controlled by people.

[@mignonne]

This is an /excellent/ media analysis/criticism. It's well-argued, clear and very well-structured. I enjoyed this a lot. Thank you.

[@josecadena8577]

Captain America did believe Bucky was behind the bombing, he just didn’t want Bucky killed. That’s all he was attempting to do, ensure Bucky was taken alive and not killed.

[@brianstorm5488]

Wasn’t it also that Barns was basically brainwashed as a Manchuria soldier hence not fully responsible for his actions? Of course most people are brainwashed to one degree or another, so another massive grey area

[@derek96720]

@@brianstorm5488 there's a difference between being "brainwashed" figuratively by society and being brainwashed to literally having no agency.

[@idagergely6235]

Yes. Thank you. Everyone seems to forget that he is a victim. Also, Cap wouldn't have just let him walk away. He just wanted him to have a fair trail.

[@ravenrose5712]

@@derek96720 Absolutely--I feel like, even if the rest of the video is good, the "blue wall of silence" thing kind of falls flat with Steve and Bucky. Bucky had concentrated amounts of electricity pumped into his head on multiple occasions, as we literally see on screen. There's no real parallel to that with the cop stuff being discussed elsewhere because police forces, unless I've been severely misled, don't fry their officer's brains in the real world. The closest parallel to what happened to Bucky that I can think of is probably the use--or more rather, misuse--of electroconvulsive therapy for mentally ill patients. His situation feels more like an opportunity to discuss how the police treat the mentally ill and traumatized (another big and ugly topic) than the blue wall of silence.

[@chicken2nite351]

I would point out that the Howling Commandos of The First Avenger film were anachronistically integrated with both Japanese American and African American soldiers. Also, the first Avengers film was denied US military funding because of the plot point in the third act where Nick Fury, Director of SHIELD, was beholden to a shadowy World Council (which would later be revealed to be led by one of the top members of Hydra on the tv show Agents of SHIELD) who wanted to nuke New York in a halfhearted attempt to save the world from an alien invasion.

[@josesosa3337]

I hate civil war for so many reasons and the government incompetence is one of the reasons. Why would any superhero be with the government who has shown to try to nuke its own citizens if there was a big enough threat? I really hated tony in civil war. All of tony's movies are about dealing with corrupt men with military and political ties. Why would tony want the avengers to work for a government that has been shown to be potentially corrupt? This even happened after winter soldier!! The movie about shield being infiltrated by Nazis!!!

[@flynnwhimster5371]

@@josesosa3337 It was out of guilt for the trouble and deaths he brought in Sokovia and the world, by creating Ultron. Personally, I can't blame him for rethinking the way his team was going. But that doesn't mean I'm going to take the government policy seriously either

[@flynnwhimster5371]

Ah, but it shows that the creators were trying to do the right thing

[@EnanoPancracio]

@@josesosa3337 i never liked that argument, because while shield and the US government were incompetent, corrupt and infiltrated by Nazis, the same is not true for the rest of the world. And the Sokovia Accords would not make the avengers part of the us government, but make them accountable to UN members, and at least in canon, the UN doesn't have any of the problems the us government did. Cap's argument is basically might makes right, the avengers have the power therefore they know what to do with it, which is laughable considering the two most powerful avengers are the two least capable of controlling their powers.

[@josesosa3337]

@@EnanoPancracio maybe they could have explained it better, if its shown that hydra can infiltrate governments and different agencies, its highly likely that they can do it again. Most mcu films, espacially the iron man ones, show tony dealing with corruption in government or at least anyone tied closely to it. I wish it was at least addressed by tony or somebody else.

[@foxhound9780]

I love your stuff especially this series but feel bad alot of people are refuse to watch this out of brand loyalty not gone through it all yet but I'm sure its amazing keep up the good work 😊

[@nixboaski]

Just found out your channel. This video is spot on. As a latino guy who also enjoy the MCU series, I'm so happy to see a yankee with this acid and critical view about the USA. The cultural imperialism promoted by the USA is probably their biggest way of commiting crimes all over the world and twisting the political views of people who live in places that were either bombed or completely destroyed by that same system which sells itself as the light of the world. You've got yourself another subscriber (-:

[@danielsleeper2307]

I will say, the quote from Natasha about the world "needing them" was very much not about any governmental body. That's an egregious misread. She was telling the government that unfortunately for them, the individuals who aren't afraid to go against/over the heads of said government to do what's right are the people who will actually get the job done. While the Avengers are still majority US citizens, it's still about the power of "the people" rather than the organized government.

[@bennettfoley3018]

Absolutely amazing thesis, with a profound summarization at the very end. I have come to expect nothing less. Thanks for the video!

[@bendingriver7101]

Fuckin brilliant. Been unemployed but just got a new job and you are my first patreon to get a subscription now that I have a job again. Keep to the impeccable work

[@antihinduismisbased]

Yes! Finally, saying the things I've always wanted to say but couldn't muster the words to say so.

[@Vhlathanosh]

Here from Second Thought. Dude, this is well done.

[@dj_tika]

I'm actually working my way backwards through the Copaganda episodes, anyone else notice ep 10 is missing? I just recently discovered this channel and was like "How have I not been watching this .... I love Seattle! And miss it". Did I say watching, more like binge watching, I'm a little sleep deprived .... I think 🤔

[@robertgutierrez939]

I’m really glad you made this episode. I’m a huge comic book reader and while I love captain America ( the brubaker run is one of the best runs of all time) I have always felt the lack of acknowledgement of the impact of a super hero called “captain America “would have on global politics as a big miss. This is why I will always have a special place in my heart for the ultimate universe. Mark millar made very pointed commentary on the impact of super powered beings “protecting” America culminating in a literal super hero arms race.

[@galactic85]

Isn't it weird how the original ultimates book was basically "superheroes as ass hole celebrities/government weapons" and the MCU literally adopted its aesthetic while abandoning any of the criticisms it offered? Like the movies don't even try to refute the criticisms of the genre offered by the ultimates. They just make the avengers more militaristic and direct your attention to the big action scenes and funny quips. It's kind of like how people tried to make the genre MORE like watchmen, failing to realize that if they did then they would just be making superheroes into nightmare horror concepts.

[@robertgutierrez939]

@@galactic85 Oh yea! I just had a conversation with my buddy about just that. They loved the up to date looks of all their heroes, but completely abondoned any of its nuance and critique. I am a huge Capt Amer fan in the 616 universe, but man i just LOVE Ultimate Cap. Most others hate him cause he is essentialy a caricature of a right wing ultra nationlist, but in away, i think it makes the whole dynamic much more grounded and realistic. The man's name is Captain America! Of course he is going to be an ultranationalist ponce! Side story: Mark Millar said in an interview how he was completely surprised when fans would tell him that they were inspired to join the military(this is early 2000) because of Ultimate Cap America. HE was like "Man that went completely over your head! You werent supposed to interpret it THAT way! " LMAO. Reminds me of how right wingers love ROrschach, even though alan moore wrote him as a caricature of ultra right wing authoritarians. Another in a long line of "Conservatives dont understand the media they consume".

[@mikemorro140]

@@robertgutierrez939 I mean I feel like that misses the point of Captain America he took that name in WWII when he was fighting against Nazis and yes America even at that time was insanely flawed and screwed up but it was a lot easier to see us as good. Thing is Cap keeps the name for one because it's too iconic of a character to change by this point two as he points out in multiple comics he's not fighting for America itself he fights for the ideas of freedom we preach even if we don't follow him because he actually believes in that despite we might not.

[@PureMoss]

@@robertgutierrez939 do you have any recommendations for captain america runs to read? Also spot on with that Rorschach analysis. I always found it odd that when the Watchmen show on Prime aired, there was a massive group of people upset/confused that Rorschach's likeness was adopted by white supremacists. It's like, did y'all read the comic book at all lol. The last page is his ramblings and manifesto being received by an alt-right newspaper.

[@robertgutierrez939]

@@PureMoss Yup. its a little embarrassing. like the dude is a basically a fascist and you have all these chuds upset he inspired white supremacists lol. as for book recommendations, anything by brubaker. Start at Winter soldier, then red menace and finish with death of captain america.

[@MouldyBannanas]

This series is consistently the most well researched and thought provoking on KZbin right now, and I say that as a huge fan of many of these shows.

[@adesinabrown843]

I NEVER comment on KZbin videos, but I felt that I needed to comment on this one. I am absolutely in love with this entire "Copaganda" series and actually feel personally insulted that it does not get the recognition it deserves!! Hopefully commenting (and sharing) can help boost its scope of influence.

[@tayxxmonster]

I realized the algorithm brought me here on episode 6 so now I’m hauling ass back to one because I need to hear all of this from the top. Brb in a few hours.

[@ashvio]

Watching this after Soldier Boy in the Boys is awesome. He basically answers all your critiques and questions about Captain America

[@AtomicBananaPress]

Now I want to hear you talk about all 500 episodes of Summer.

[@SkipIntroYT]

maybe when they inevitably reboot it as a miniseries!

[@martophrenia]

man, this video is great, really hope it gets views

[@FothergillMD]

Good video, but it misinterprets Tony's testimony in IM2. The "privatized world peace" line represents the hubris that the rest of the movie dismantles. He argues to Congress that he IS Iron Man, and that the armored persona is inseparable from Tony Stark. Rhodey--as an agent of the USG--fights Tony to make the armor "public" property, proving that Tony and "Iron Man" are NOT one and the same. And the denouement with Fury's debrief underlines the message: Iron Man was recommended for the Avengers Initiative, but Tony Stark was graded as unsuitable.

[@syedrahman3251]

Isn’t a metal uniform the most copaganda thing ever..?

[@galactic85]

But is that hubris dismantled in the movie though? Tony doesn't change his mind. In fact the movie ends with the senator that was criticizing him being forced to award him a medal and recognize stark's "greatness." Then later we find out that the senator was a hydra agent which makes tony seem all the more in the right retroactively.

[@mikemorro140]

@@galactic85 Tony constantly talks about how no one can make his tech and it all belongs to him then Whiplash shows up with tech just as good and as the op says Rhodey beats him up and takes a suit. The movie is constantly proving how Tony was being too arrogant and he ends up losing Pepper and Rhodey in the process of his crappy behavior.

[@brucesnow7125]

The problem with Iron Man 2 is its presentation. While the script seemingly criticizes Tony, the visuals endorse the hell out of him. His speech in congress is accompanied by badass music, cool shots and cheers from the crowd. Every time Tony does some shitbaggery, it is always shown in a "badass" light. No matter what your movie is trying to convey through its writing, at the end of the day, visuals leave a stronger impression. Hell, movie literally ends with Tony stroking his ego and its once again shown as cool. So even script itself is confused.

[@mikemorro140]

@@brucesnow7125 To be fair the visual from the earlier congress scene are shown to be at the beginning but then after that Tony is constantly shown to be wrong and gets his ass kicked. His ego is only stroked again at the end when he's somewhat overcome his narcissistic ways and gotten Pepper back.

[@MalloonTarka]

KZbin was pushing this video in my recommendations quite heavily. I kept skipping it because the thumbnail and video especially made me think it would lack nuance. I caved, however. And I was pleasantly surprised. This video had plenty of nuance. So much so that it wasn't as spicy as I thought it would be. Perfect for commodification.

[@poloMpolo]

good stuff, its like popculture detective but with broader approach and with less saying "what is right" Thanks