3. Our Differences Regarding Jesus

The Rev. Rob Renfroe explains how differing views about Jesus creates division within The United Methodist Church. This is the third video in a series. It is important to watch video 1 to gain a context for this video. You can access video 1 here • 1. The United Methodis...

[@cherylferguson7614]

I will never forget my first day in Dr. William Abraham’s class at Perkins when he said that Jesus was the very God who hung on the cross and died for us. He also said that anyone there who did not believe that needed to just save us all time and leave his class. Dr Abraham was the most wonderful teacher I ever had. I am so sorry he is gone from this earth and that others will never be lead to Christ the way I had the opportunity to be by him. Thank you for this series of videos.

[@MoopowerX]

My church is now facing this. I grew up Episcopalian (and you know they were the first to change) and married a Methodist and changed my membership. Now it's hit my beloved UMC church and there is a huge divide in the church with people I have loved forever. We are family and this family is dividing. This is so sad, emotional, scary.

[@caninecodependent]

I am so sorry your church is going through this. We love our brothers and sister so. We know them intimately. We've poured out our hearts to them knowing they pray for us like we do them. So splitting from any of them feels like a divorce. May God open their eyes to the error and the harm that the UMC can do.

[@scottperry2541]

Wow, gotta say I'd kinda stunned. Actually blessed might be a better way to put it. I've been a East Texas Methodist since '71 and our church has never had anything other than God fearing, Bible believing leadership. We have entered into a period of Discernment and are putting this all in the hands of our Lord and Savior. Thank you Rev Rob for putting this series of videos together. Very informative and frankly shocking that this is taking place. God bless - S

[@tommylinsley2081]

Thank you Rob for sharing helpful complete information in this video series. So many people think the split is only about sexuality. Many conservative pastors don't realize the basics of what is going on with the split.

[@marcelouriasministryvideos6684]

I had to stand up in front of my computer and clap and jump for joy for the words starting at 14:20 ish. I cannot find the proper words of appreciation for this man's faith and assurance. God bless you pastor!!!

[@bryjushumway]

You certainly do not sound like any Methodist I have ever heard. Very refreshing. Thank you for speaking out for truth!!! I left the Methodist church in 1992 when I accepted Christ as my Savior and realized I had never once heard the Gospel in my entire childhood in the church. It actually made me very mad and bitter for a while. I was basically being led astray by my own pastors.

[@robrenfroe8083]

I hear you, that has been the experience of too many people who grew up in the UMC. Liberals act like we're making this stuff up, but you and I and many, many others know that it's only too true.

[@marvinshook9142]

Thank you for so eloquently explaining what is essential in a Christian church!

[@sonnymatiase.habacon6121]

Amen. Unity should go beyond words, it should be on what we believe in. Thank you brother.

[@2.old4this]

Thank you for your honesty and clarity. Please pray for those Methodist churches in the world where such practices are on the rise and often unopposed. Jesus is Lord.

[@profeta9513]

Thanks you for speaking the truth The Lord Bless You And Keep You in Jesus Christ Mighty Name

[@edwardwiegand6925]

Again, thank you so much for your powerful and much needed revelation of the shocking apostacy of so many leaders of the UMC, the church that I grew up in, was saved in, and worked in and had to resign from after so many good years as a Jesus loving and Wesley admiring Methodist. We had been fortunate to be pastored by Bible believing, gospel preaching men all those years until getting a pastor who denied all of the fundamental truths in the scriptures and ridiculed the Apostles Creed and the need for being born again. Even after all that, and having been a member of an Independent Baptist church ever since then, I'm shocked to hear how far the leadership of the Church has strayed from the eternal truth of the Bible.

[@robrenfroe8083]

God bless you, Edward. Glad you landed in a good place.

[@marybisagno7809]

Thank you, Pastor Rob. I have watched these videos since my own congregation will be voting on 3/5 on whether or not to leave the UMC. I played this video today for my daughter and watched it with her. She is 27 years old and has cognitive disabilities, but even she knows that Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life. Her jaw dropped while listening to your words about what others are saying about Jesus. I watched with her to explain things that she might not 100% understand. She is sad (as am I) that we will be casting our votes for disaffiliation. Thank you for making these videos short and easy to understand.

[@eileenthrift8259]

Jesus said, "I and the Father are One". I am saddened that voices in the UMC leadership are blaspheming the Truth and seem willing to crucify our Lord over and over. However, I am trusting Jesus to keep a remnant of the faithful following the Truth, the Way and the Life. A split of this magnitude will be painful but Jesus said, “I have told you these things, so that in me you may have peace. In this world you will have trouble. But take heart! I have overcome the world.” God bless you, Pastor Rob. We need more like you in leadership. I admire your courage that could only come from the Lord Himself.

[@bettyrussell6193]

Your testimony of our Savior brought tears to my eyes! He is the Only Begotten Son of God and my Redeemer

[@ellenworley9338]

I’m a member of a UMC in GA, our church is in the midst of turmoil over this. The UMC wants us to think it’s only a LGBQT issue that is causing the division, Thank you Rob for speaking the truth. Our bishop has “paused” any disaffiliation requests until the 2024 General conference and our DS cancelled any informational meetings in October. The leaders seem to think there is too much “misinformation” out there and it will cause irreparable harm to the UMC(that ship has already sailed) I am so sad to leave the only Church I’ve known since moving to GA. About 50% of our church are leaving or have already left, the 10% who are the workers and leaders, both lay leaders and over half the church council. I’m a Bible study facilitator, Sunday school teacher, Womens group president, our group that’s leaving want to stay together at another church. I’m not walking away, I’m running. Being faithful and steadfast in our belief in Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior is what we’re doing. We will be a blessing to the church we join. Shame on you United Methodist Church Leaders, you will be held accountable when you stand before the throne of Almighty God

[@donniepitchford5269]

Thank you for this series.

[@barbaramastronardi1329]

Thank you for all this information. My annual conference is the Mountain Sky and of course our Bishop is Karen Oliveto. It has been extremely hard to continue in the UMC with what she and the progressives have brought to our conference. My son is a traditional Umc pastor in this conference and my heart aches for how he had been treated as there are so few traditional pastors remaining in our conference. Most of the traditional members of my church left after Oliveto was appointed. I am one of the few remaining. I have been told by a retired Umc pastor that there is no way "her" God would have his son crucified. In my mother's church in the Denver area her pastor, a fairly recent graduate of Iliff,said in her sermon two weeks ago that Jesus is not the only way to salvation but he can be your way if you believe that. Sad to say I have to leave the Umc but none of the churches within a 40 mile radius will be disaffiliating. I am grieving. But Rob you do speak the truth about what is going on in the Umc right now.

[@carloseduardocastanomejia8987]

I am sorry to hear what you are witnessing. The Bible tells us in Matthew 24 that only those who stand firm till the end will be saved. I invite you to continue to be strong and courageous. God bless.

[@jayturner9941]

I can feel your hurt and pain, our church here in North Mississippi is leaving the UMC. We have not been affected as directly as you folks out west. Tell your son that he is welcome here in N MS and we can find him a number of churches. You are very welcome as well as any like minded friends. Our church welcomes people of all walks of life, we have gay members as well as gay children of members. We are Bible centered. I will add you and others in the same situation to our prayer lists, praying that you can find the right church for you.

[@lisabergman3779]

Wonderful preaching!!!! You surely made it clear!!! Praising the Lord for your courage that you get from our Lord!!!

[@baileymapp3522]

Thank you for your courage in making these videos. Every UMC going through their Discernment process should hear these.

[@bobbrooke6426]

Well said, Pastor Rob. Christ Alone Is Lord to the glory of God the Father. Anyone who cannot, or will not, confess that truth from the Holy Bible is certainly doomed to eternal damnation, whatever denomination he or she is a part of in this world.

[@OffGridandOutdoors]

Always the Key Question, and a root of error for every Cult. “But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?” ~ Matthew 16:15. Who do you say that Jesus is? Get this wrong and everything else is wrong.

[@lonestar6457]

Thank you for this message!

[@perlaspascua4718]

I can't wait to find a Bible base church where I will worship with fellow believers who believe in the word of our living God, for now there is no GMC in our place I pray that there will be a traditional Methodist to open soon 🙏 Thank you Rev Rob for the series videos God bless you 🙏

[@peggymanrose2135]

Amen!! Jesus is my Savior!

[@sandyhussey5023]

Thank you so much for these videos. My church is in the North Carolina Conference. We are disaffiliating. We have had many good preachers but a few that were more liberal. The good leadership of the church has held us together

[@ex-Hort-23]

Thank you for standing firm in your faith

[@luannelangley2500]

Amen.. thank you for these messages

[@robrenfroe8083]

Glad you found them worthwhile. God bless.

[@carloseduardocastanomejia8987]

One of the things that I would genuinely want to do sincerely, is to teach at a seminary true and righteous theology. As a Duke Divinity School graduate, I could experience false indoctrination and false teachings. Now, I want to step up and speak up about the truth contained in the Scriptures. We need to be strong leaders in our faith and, in the same way, teach what is the right and true theology.

[@bricetynes7111]

GOD bless you, Rob!

[@jeffmiller3520]

Amen Rob

[@mississippichris]

Life-long Methodist here, now a former Methodist. I wanted to leave the church thirty years ago, but I stayed because the UMC needed me. I thought I could change the direction the church was headed. It was my folly to think I could change something wholly devoted to a folly of its own making. John Wesley would take a horse whip to those in a position of authority who would deny the resurrection of Jesus. I taught a Sunday School class for over twenty years. I stayed in trouble with some pastors and district superintendents because I refused to use UMC materials which at first were pablum, then later defiantly unscriptural. The focus of my class was always helping believers understand more about their Bible and Almighty God who inspired it, and how to put biblical principles into everyday practice. I abhor what has happened to my denomination. While the UMC is fading into oblivion and impotence, Christ's church is alive and well. Trying to conform God into our image is the greatest folly mankind ever devised. It is not new, and it will not go away. One day, God himself will separate the wheat from the chaff. 1 Peter 1:3: "Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead." John 20: 27, 28 Then He said to Thomas, “Reach your finger here, and look at My hands; and reach your hand here, and put it into My side. Do not be unbelieving, but believing.” And Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!” "Doubting" Thomas understood completely. I've cast my lot with him, and I shall not be moved. By the way, my UM Church blew up five years ago, with three hundred of us leaving, and about fifty staying. They have dwindled to about twenty, while our church is growing. Thank you for your content.

[@ex-Hort-23]

God bless you!

[@corrinecalvasina2181]

Thank you. I am stunned but know that I cannot remain a UM.

[@therunner323]

Wow, it’s worse than I thought.

[@pammerrill5385]

It sounds like the UMC will no longer be a church. I hope everyone watches these before they decide which Methodist Church to belong to. If you take Christ out of church, It's not a church for a Bible believing Christain.

[@CharlesCrews-zn4lp]

Thank you

[@jcolet49]

It is evident to me that the Great Deceiver has finally found his way into the ministry of the church that has been the worship home for me and for so many other lovers of Christ like me. In recent years I've heard reports of this devolution of our church, but since I never saw any evidence of this in my own place of worship, I regarded those reports as being without credibility. Now, thanks to these messages from Rev. Renfroe whom I've known and loved for many years, I'm shocked and appalled to learn that all the horror stories I'd heard about my beloved denomination are true.

[@robrenfroe8083]

God bless you, John

[@jayturner9941]

It is apparent that satan himself is in charge of our seminaries... the cradle of our next gen pastors, he is providing the food to feed their souls.... what can we expect from this???? Yep, mini satans. If they study and learn these non-Bible based ways, they will regurgitate them from the pulpit.

[@k.darrelbowles2316]

Amen!

[@bonniekarenmullenholtz1877]

Amen brother. I was raised Missouri synod lutheran. I was after a long journey I was ordained a umc pastor. I am horrid by today's pastors and the condition of the church. I am loo,looking, at the global church..

[@pattytoscano9569]

Crazy stuff!

[@keepingitrealwithe7323]

My jaw is dropping... my eyes are filling with tears and I literally tremble in holy fear for this demonically lead "pastors".... Wow. Just Wow.

[@Keycity60]

I wondered if the bishop who felt Jesus was insulting to the Canaanite woman thought Jesus could use some counseling. Then I came across this: “Oh, the depth of the riches, both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and unfathomable His ways! For who has known the mind of the Lord, or who became His counselor?” Romans 11:33-34 NASB2020

[@richardbowman2794]

As a previous UMC Board member of a smaller UMC Church I find it interesting of the changes with the Global Methodist Church. My resignation from the board of that church and leaving the UMC 6 years ago was due entirely to the sinful lies of the leaders and many fellow constituents of that church. I was even told that by a local UMC leader that she recognized what the bible claimed about 'QUEER" marriages, but that the church disagrees with God. It sickened me, I couldn't believe the depth of depravity when I did an un-official survey of fellow church constituents. Indeed, shocking, and it was time for "feet don't fail me now. " I was not going to fight so many others in the church, but they needed to be thrown out just like Jesus threw out the money changers.

[@richardbowman2794]

Matthew 15:8.9 This people honors me with their lips, but their heart is far from me, and they worship me in vain, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.

[@mikeerickson287]

Thank you, Rob for standing true to the Christian faith. Those who believe Jesus is God's Son and the Savior of the world who was crucified and rose from the dead should and I believe will leave the UMC. How can they not? Sadly, the UMC has become an apostate church. I have never been a member of the UMC however, I graduated from Asbury Theological Seminary, and I am thankful for the godly UMC professors who had a high view of Scripture. I'm amazed that you and others had remained in the UMC as long as you have. Although, I realize that the majority of the UMC members at one time followed the teachings of Wesley, what is being taught in the UMC today is heretical. You will and have gotten a lot of flack from false bishops, pastors and lay people. So sad, they follow a false Christ and a false gospel. I believe the GMC will be a vibrant witness for Christ. The GMC will proclaim the gospel throughout the world. The UMC will allow the lost to die in their sins. How ironic that the converts to Christ outside of the US hold to the teachings of Christ while the leaders of the UMC have fallen away from the faith. I know I have made harsh statements about the UMC due to their abandonment of the gospel, but I believe Jesus' words to them will be even harsher, "Depart from me, I never knew you!"

[@dianerindosh430]

This is unbelievable!

[@markmontanari4407]

I am learning for the first time the troubles in the UMC. I wish you would name names or at least provide links to hear, read, for myself the false teachings of these Bishops.

[@robrenfroe8083]

send me a DM on FB and I'll give you names

[@lisabergman3779]

Listen to the first video and the second one, he said he would give names if you contacted him.

[@markmontanari4407]

@@lisabergman3779 Lisa, I did ask and I did receive. God Bless

[@oldladywithcats206]

Amen Amen Amen

[@bonhamfan82]

Regarding witnessing, what is the GMC's stance on religious Jews? Are they in need of salvation?

[@danduhman888]

I am starting a bible study on 7/6/22 at a small North Houston Methodist church, I am using your study called the trouble with the truth that you published in 2014. I bought 8 books and the leaders guide and the DVD with the intention of having the study at my former UMC church that I was a member at, unfortunately shortly after that we received a new pastor that is very active in promoting inclusiveness and is active in the reconciling ministry's and he was not supportive of the use of your material as he is not a big fan of you or your writings but prefers to allow Adam Hamiltons materials to be used in Sunday school teachings ,I tolerated it as long as I could but after a year of his propaganda from the pulpit my wife and I decided to withdraw our membership ,and have since been wandering in the wasteland ,we have attended a church of the Nazarene and an Anglican in North America church , Missouri Synod Lutheran church and a few other UMC churches but none of them felt like home to us, so we are attending a small northside UMC church (average attendance 8 not counting the retired pastor) while we wait for the dust to settle on the split , I am a 4th gen Methodist and have been a member of WCA since 2017 but there are no WCA / GMC churches close enough for me to attend . The small group at my church are basically uninformed abought the current goings on other than a few mentions of the split. They are not at all aware of most of the details and what to expect. So, I offered to do a bible study using the materials I purchase at the Woodlands UMC Wesleyan Covenant Gathering back in 2017 and they seem eager to participate (all 8 of them!) the issue is that much has transpired since 2014 when The Trouble with the Truth was written and your series of 6 you KZbin videos are much more up to date, but this church does not have any modern technology to display KZbin video's and I am wondering if you have them on a DVD that I can use as part of the study? (Sorry for the long-winded request) Many thanks for your efforts to keep us informed Pastor Rob.

[@robrenfroe8083]

Sorry, but we don't have them on DVD. And really sorry what was done to your church.

[@wayneworsham8464]

Highly recommend "Unlocking the Bible" by David Pawson. I teach it regularly in my church and read many of his books and listen to his podcasts all the time for a number of years now. Each book of the Bible was written for a specific purpose. Chapters and verses were added around 1200-1300 (and were not God inspired) and thus we became "text" people and do not understand what each book is telling us. David Pawson's great grandfather was a helper to John Wesley. His grandfather was a Methodist minister. He himself started out as a Methodist minister but left the church over his disagreement with infant baptism. His teachings stay totally true to the word of God.

[@scotmitchell2961]

So in your view inclusiveness is a bad thing? Where in the Bible does it say that?

[@jeansimpson2373]

How did that person even call himself a Christian if he didn't believe in the lordship of Jesus over our lives? These people denying the messiahship of Christ and saying he's not the only way, as he claimed, should better call themselves universalists.

[@chrisstage4757]

I was denied ordination in the Southern New England Conference in 1992 because I believe Jesus is The Way, the Truth, and The Life and is our one and only way to adoption into God’s family. I was told I was a bigot and would never be ordained in the UMC. This situation Rob spoke of with the fellow in California is nothing new. I was ordained and served the North Indiana Confernce, for 8 years, transferred back to New England and was forced out of the UMC after 4 years of service there by a DS who hates Evangelical men. After months of harassment I came to the conclusion I could not trust the conference leadership to do the right thing by my church, my family, or God and His Word. I left in 2004. I am now happily a member of the CCCC. (Conservative Congregational Christian Conference) for any asking if they should leave the UMC for a bible believing church. Run! Do not walk away from the UMC.

[@kevinmcdonald6446]

I have told congregations many times that the people of the Bible were NOT 2000 years dumber than we are.

[@MikeLee-hw6nx]

Ephesians 5:11

[@vlgfla]

Will the UMC rewrite, abandon or remove the Apostles Creed and the Nicene Creed?

[@cherylferguson7614]

My UMC already has

[@jayturner9941]

It won't be quickly. I think the UMC will let the dust settle, meet in private, plan their devious future and when the 2028 General Conf meets.... Boom!! big changes will come by the boatload with most of the Traditionalists gone.

[@jameswood4990]

In the UMC I attend, we recite the Apostles Creed every Sunday!

[@larrybates4925]

Where did the 39 lashes come from?

[@jameswood4990]

Rev. Rob is taking some liberties with Scripture and adding his own details. There are 39 books in the OT, maybe that's what he was thinking. Also, "cat-o'-nine-tails" as a weapon for flogging isn't mentioned in the Gospel accounts.

[@garryw.robertsmusicandmore2359]

This is very sobering. What the Progressives are preaching is nto waht I was taought or raised to believe.

[@hexahexametermeter]

You are established on a firm foundation. You chose to build on it. They chose not to. Simple as that.

[@pastorleecorpier4509]

How can I request sources of the examples posted in this video?

[@robrenfroe8083]

send me a DM on FB with your email and I'll send it to you.

[@dondarnell9605]

Ultimately my faith is not in a pastor, bishop, or any person or famed author. My. Faith is in Christ. Also, am I correct in asking if UMC or California UMC? Asking for a friend.

[@stephaniecreech1541]

I’m deeply offended by this pastor saying that what I believe or don’t believe is wrong. My faith in Christ is real, true and meaningful, no matter what this guy says.

[@mississippichris]

The great thing about KZbin is that with a simple click or two, one who is deeply offended here can move right along and have their personal religious philosophy reinforced by a pastor who caters to itchy ears.

[@MikeLee-hw6nx]

BIBLE say to expose them for what they are

[@chaseellefson4726]

All of these quotes from UMC members have no context. They sound like they are taken extremely out of context. Or at the very least, this is a gross underrepresentation of very complex theological ideas.

[@iceshcratiote3635]

Reverse this thunderdome

[@danarose6314]

Beware of people who start using the word "woke" in an accusatory fashion.

[@carolkoser7020]

“Woke” is the new term for emphasizing “race” and “racial issues” in defining someone. It began with the BLM movement, which spotlights blacks only and affirms them as mattering to the other races. We all should matter to each other regardless of our race or ethnicity. The word has been used before to mean “be awake or aware.” It doesn’t anymore. It’s an opposite of conservatism, which emphasizes character and actions benefitting the person as a whole.

[@danarose6314]

@@carolkoser7020 ok

[@phyllisreasor9495]

You have stated leaving UMC and turning to Global Methodist. Aren’t they under the same leadership and teaching the same things?

[@robrenfroe8083]

The leadership is completely different. The GMC's teaching will be true to Scripture and thoroughly Wesleyan.

[@julieburnett4489]

They are also allowing anyone to be married at the altar, and pushing the LGBTQ+ agenda. None of that is biblical.

[@cuatro336]

I don't subscribe to textual inerrancy, but for reasons completely difference from the progressives. If you don't subscribe to penal substitution, the only other option where Jesus remains Messiah is Christus Victor (an older idea than the former)

[@renewberry5658]

I think you are trying to make this a one size fits all. It is not. While I have no doubt about the bishop or the seminary president/professor, you are painting all who stay in the UMC with that brush. For every seminary president or bishop that is out in left field, there are many more UMCer’s that are as orthodox as you, have as high of Christology as you, who love and adhere to the Nicene Creed as you. I resent being painted with your very narrow brush. If you won’t paint us as heirs of Rudolf Bultmann, We won’t paint you as heirs of Jerry Falwell.

[@robrenfroe8083]

I appreciate and understand your concerns. Hopefully I didn't paint everyone who remains in the UMC with the brush you describe. If I did, I was wrong to do so. But consider this. "Centrists" have to make a decision. Will they be in a church that doesn't allow gay marriage? Or will they be in a church that allows their bishops, seminary president, professors, and pastors to teach doctrines contrary to the orthodox faith -- even promote false Christologies that demean the person and work of Christ? If that's the church one chooses, then they need to be honest with themselves about what they value and what beliefs make for a true church. If it's not the uniqueness of Jesus, I don't know what it is.

[@andrewthompson292]

It's amazing to me that Bishop Oliveto made one controversial post (which i'm not a fan of, but) you continue to keep referencing *incessantly* and quite annoyingly.

[@andrewthompson292]

also, your personal experiences just seem vague and lacking pertinent information for understanding what situation you might be referencing.

[@sheyduck]

scare tactics are very effective these days

[@FatBikeRacer]

The first split was from the Catholic Church, and from there is just keeps getting worse. Satan is productive.

[@glennmoore6581]

Oddly, it is these same people that want to hold the constitution in the same way. Exactly what was meant then, can only be what is true now. I do happen to believe the bible as written and without personal interpretations. However, one can not help but also wonder and sometimes question what is always been accepted. God created all, and he knew them before they were born. If this is the case then how can being simply who they are, be wrong?

[@d.k.barker9465]

Whut???

[@glennmoore1752]

@@d.k.barker9465 it's OK if you can't understand

[@rhondashephard4147]

Don’t no longer to be retold about God. That’s the whole big lie in this whole thingv

[@chasecrickenberger4691]

This kind of anecdotal fear-mongering is the basest form of evangelism. Disgusting. Rob Renfroe should pray for the salvation of his soul because his ego has clearly convinced him he is not in need of the same salvation we all are -- even those he spinelessly calls out without naming. Pathetic.

[@jbmanning]

More lies.

[@danarose6314]

Aren't you gone yet? You're leaving the UMC. You think it's apostate or whatever. Enjoy your purer world.

[@d.l.f.7794]

Amen!