3 Reasons Joining the EU Might Not Always be a Great Idea

[@Stefan556]

The Balkans brain drain affected non EU countries such as Serbia or Albania as well.

[@dewaard3301]

Poland saw a temporary drain as well. But now that opportunities are better in Poland itself, those that have retained their roots are remigrating, and bringing Western European education and money with them.

[@danielbenner7583]

I think it’s true for pretty much every non-EU European country, too.

[@samelmudir]

Even more in Bulgaria

[@BOZ_11]

Serbian brain? oxymoron

[@XD-bx6ee]

Moldova also is because while it's not a member state approx ⅓ to ½ of the country has a Romanian passport(higher frequency in young people) so entering the EU won't exacerbate this

[@rockseihftn5991]

6:51 "Since joining the euro Italy's gdp has stagnated" nah Italy's GDP DOUBLED in the 10 years after adopting the euro and has stagnated since the 2008 crisis what in the misinformatin is that what

[@davidcooks2379]

As a result, doubled

[@Real_MrDev]

And let's not forget that the Euro problem in Italy is also due the government joining without meeting the required criteria.

[@brentlunger9738]

침량할 필요가 없습니다. 인구 폭발은 과일이 익었을 때 더 강력한 인구가 그냥 들어올 것이라는 것을 보장할 것입니다.

[@hyperteleXii]

You can SEE it on the graph on screen! GPD shot WAY UP after joining! What is this incompetence??

[@paul1979uk2000]

To be fair, that has little to do with the Euro and more to do with Italy not keeping pace with other EU countries, a lack of reform, corruption and high debt levels isn't doing Italy any favours and these problems would be there with or without the Euro, and many would rightly say that the Euro is helping to shield the worst of it for Italy, things could be worse for Italy if they were not in the Euro. But when things go wrong, there's always something to deflect blame on, the UK always blamed the EU for all the wrongs in the UK, since Brexit, Brits are realising that the EU wasn't the problem and the problems are much deeper in the system of the UK, in the case of Italy, it's easy to deflect blame on the Euro then to solve their own problems, but the simple truth is, a lot of countries are doing fine in the Euro, so that excuse is wearing thin, and besides, the problems were there before the Euro in Italy, just that it's becoming more evident as time goes on and deep sutural reforms are needed in Italy on the political and economic front as well as some major clean up of corruption which is holding back the economy. In the meantime, Spain, a country that started out well behind Italy are quickly catching up and I suspect they will overtake unless Italy gets its act together, Spain is a Euro zone country and are doing well out of it just like most are doing, in fact, if you look closely, it's countries like Italy and Greece that have had major issues with it, but if you look closely, you'll see it had little to do with the Euro and far more to do with internal politics and policies, Greece seems to be coming out of the worst of it and might be on the right track now, but we'll have to wait and see on that, as for Italy, I've not seen any major shift yet to get things moving and I really hope Italy gets its act together, but it's hard to keep faith on the country when they keep stumbling, and in any case, deflecting blame isn't the solution, constructive policymaking and solutions are needed, not the blame game that creates anger that gets none of us anywhere.

[@4tech404]

To be fair, brain drain is not really a EU thing but a developed vs poor country thing . Romanians were leaving the country to work and get high pay jobs well before EU , joining just made it simpler and we actually get something in return now in form of funds . Also the progress is there, from the early 2000's the gap in pay is way smaller . It's less and less of a question of money and more of a question of quality of life and better government.

[@paul1979uk2000]

Very true, and with these eastern EU countries developing, that brain drain will reduce and eventually reverse as the economy catches up with western EU standards. In any case, the brain drain was going to happen to those countries regardless of if they were in the EU or not as people want a better quality of life and many are willing to move to get that, with these countries being in the EU, it does make it easier for them to move to other EU countries, but it also helps to develop these countries much faster which then people will want to live in those countries, something we've seen in many western EU countries that developed over time, the Republic of Ireland is a prime example, they were quite poor and now one of the richest countries in the EU and that's enticing people to want to move there, the same will happen to these eastern European countries over time.

[@user-tm2bq2oz7l]

That is especially true for linguistically similar countries, in the case of Romanians - Italy.

[@alexandersalamander]

Well joining the EU meant a highway for braindrain was put in place. There where no mechanisms to protect against it. That is on the EU.

[@user-tm2bq2oz7l]

@@alexandersalamander Not that argue against it, but we both know fully well that the main reason for that is the corrupt Romanian governments

[@4tech404]

@@alexandersalamander because you cant put people in prison if they want to go somewhere else where the pay is higher. What mechanism.

[@investigator7984]

Average GDP per capita (in USD) of European post communist countries that joined the EU: 25454 Average GDP per capita (in USD) of European post communist countries that didn't join the EU: 8896

[@markojovanovski3372]

Could it be that the EU makes it much easier for already wealthier members to join⁉️⁉️

[@yeneman6110]

@@markojovanovski3372 No? A backwater like what was Romania got in the EU and the developed Croatia did not until recently. The requirements to join are the same for every country. The EU would be more than happy to see Serbia within their ranks, only problem being their hot territorial disputes.

[@piroDYMSUS]

@@yeneman6110 Hot territorial dispute didnt stop Cyprus from accession

[@kvassman_]

Baltics would be what Ukraine is now if not for EU and NATO

[@alt_zaq1_esc]

Interesting that "European post communist countries that didn't join the EU" includes former Yugoslavia and Albania. They were lead by communist parties but weren't in the East bloc because they both rejected Moscow's order.

[@tomlimer9734]

As one commenter mentioned, Estonia and Lithuania's brain drain is no longer an issue. In Lithuania for instance, for the past 5 years, more Lithuanians are coming back to the country than leaving (Including myself). This has finally started to improve lithuania's demographics, and the population is once again going back up, + some migrants from Ukraine have also contributed. I see this overall positive because more people = more growth, productivity and economic bonuses.

[@TheGahta]

Yeah i agree its a temporary thing, still understandable if the shortterm looks frightening but once the first wave starts trickling back in the knowhow will biost even more

[@sanctamachina]

Do you have data or is this the result of "people I have talked with"?

[@Richard1A2B]

​@@sanctamachinasee Poland

[@rphb5870]

there is something a lot worse for a country then brain drain. Like loss of sovereignty, and mass migration

[@deldel3006]

@@sanctamachina No, he is talking out of his a**. There's no data supporting this whatsoever.

[@FDafieno]

The brain drain would have happened regardless. Just look at regions that don’t have the ability of free movement. So that’s a none starter.

[@piesezpetersburga7254]

Maybe, but definitely not on this scale.

[@ImStevan]

​@@piesezpetersburga7254 I see this as a non-arguement still cuz you're limiting people's movement, which I see as a negative thing. Migrations should be made easier

[@soundscape26]

Yes, proven by the brain drain to the US which definitely isn't a EU country.

[@asheiou]

​@@piesezpetersburga7254look at Georgia

[@Peeoto]

The language barrier is also huge.

[@nurshatkalimullin5190]

If country is poor people will leave anyway. At least in EU their are able to help their home countries by paying taxes which will go to the EU funds.

[@psammiad]

People from poor countries also tend to send money back to their country, or return later in life and buy a big house and invest with the money they've saved.

[@cr4yv3n]

EU funds come with restrictions that ruin the economy of poor countries

[@nurshatkalimullin5190]

@@cr4yv3n don't make things up

[@cr4yv3n]

@@nurshatkalimullin5190 it's true. The so called "Covid recovery help package" had them. WE were not allowed to invest in rail or agriculture. Only bullshit that looked good to environmental imbeciles but actually changed nothing. And ofc, NOTHING that would produce value to grow the economy. This was never allowed ! Import Import and give us your raw resources, like a fucking colony. The EU at this stage is no longer what we joined and maybe we should get out. It is making everyone but those politically connected poorer.

[@JoaoSantos-ur1gg]

Not to mention that in the EU people can move to other countries without having to worry with bureaucracy, border controls or being treated as second class citizens.

[@mmcworldbuilding5994]

Bro that Italy chart is crazy💀 you said the gdp “stagnated” after joining the eurozone but you can see on the graph an unbelievable growth directly after adopting the euro, and a stagnation after the 2008 recession! Also, as other commenters have pointed out, brain drain is not a problem because they are staying in the eu, which ultimately helps their home country too, and moreover as you mentioned in the video the eu is the only thing actively spending tons of money to solve the regional inequality problems. Please post a follow up highlighting why eu accession is good because this video just serves to embolden stupid euroskeptic ideas that, if fruitful, will make us all poorer, weaker and more divided.

[@iwiwt1920s]

He should have used a chart in euros not usd. The only reason it looks that way is because the value of the euro soared in the 2000s. Italy grew less than 1% a year in the 2000s

[@azelucy1798]

@@iwiwt1920s exactly portugal grew backwards😂 we were litteraly richer and fully indepent during our dictatorship now we dont have an real army or economy or sovereigty and millions of families were separated

[@emikke]

Cope. As long as the EU exists and you have them as a neighbor, you will have a problem benefiting more from staying out of the EU. People would still move to where the money is, but you will still be kept out of the shared market and won't get anything in return for it. Just look at Latin America and the US and Canada.

[@Faucies]

Very well worded out.

[@Hasanaljadid]

Very few latinos in Canada

[@evanleaf1772]

Well worded indeed but is there an equitable way to solve this problem? I dont think coping is something a nation should have to just deal with. Poorer Nations and regions want to make themselves more successful and not to be left behind globally as their people leave rather than staying to develop their country. I live in the US State of Alaska and we are facing a similar situation where the young, students, and working class leave for better opportunities in other states. Im staying in the state im born to study and ideally improve my homeland but many of my friends have already left for greener pastures and wont return. I dont want to be left behind, and I dont want to “Cope”.

[@milos4387]

@@evanleaf1772 you can also improve your homeland after moving abroad, getting experience in your field of study, that you possibly could never acquire at home due to a small job market, and investing in a business locally to improve the job market for future young people. The state should make operating a business simple and attractive which you can influence by voting. If the majority of voters prefer a closed off society, then you're a minority in wanting to improve your homeland and the state can never prosper.

[@PhthaloJohnson]

@@Hasanaljadid They have to cross the US to get to Canada no?

[@struanpeat5116]

heads up, your thumbnail says "is joining the EU is good idea"

[@Jake-rm4be]

Rip they really have to cut down these mistakes

[@harrymichaels3877]

Now it says "is joining the EU is bad idea" lol

[@EricMartinez-x1l]

ok

[@AdilAzharKhan]

@@struanpeat5116 well I hope they actually make a counter video about why joining IS a good idea.

[@struanpeat5116]

I was more concerned about the grammar mistake than about the implications of politics

[@robbie131]

There's a joke somewhere about a Brit telling others about the downfalls of the EU.

[@quantumsoul3495]

It's a way to cope with previous bad decisions

[@eddiecalderone]

@robbie131 The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland have been a wealthy country, a financial superpower, politically powerful, economically stable and influential globally for a couple centuries. A long time before the euro even was a concept. The eu might be a good idea for Albania but it might not be the same thing for the U.K. A Brit will have a different perspective from yourself

[@jaqen7122]

@@eddiecalderone When GB was part of EU, they had huge influence just like Germany and France. Albania is never going to have any influence because of how small it is, so it's not the same! Of course every person has a different perspective on things, it has a lot to do with their origins. Also a lot of these poorer countries in Europe were once a lot richer, but allied powers after WW1 and WW2 made a lot of stupid misjudgments. After WW1 Germany was too harshly punished, which sparked the rise of Hitler, fascism and WW2. After WW2 a lot of countries were puppets of Soviet Union. Czechia lands are a perfect example, they were one of the richest during Austro-Hungarian Empire. The development of these countries would be a lot better if they were independent! GB was not so much affected by the two WW wars, like majority of other European countries.

[@eddiecalderone]

@@jaqen7122 After reading the part of your comment claiming that Great Britain was not so much effected by The world wars like other European countries, I need to get some fresh air, and possibly have a drink in order not to faint…. Allow me to respond a bit later.

[@Fab666.]

@@eddiecalderoneChurchill thought otherwise and The eu was a great idea

[@jurgbalt]

mentioning EUR negative "can't print your way out of debt crisis" - is one of the most re-tarded things I have heard - and it is an indicator of complete monetary illiteracy. I can only add: enjoy the next wave of inflation that "came from nowhere"

[@Faucies]

Exactly! Well said!

[@babyblooddistilleriesinc3131]

High inflation can sometimes be much better than the alternatives when it comes to resolving a debt crisis.

[@Faucies]

@@babyblooddistilleriesinc3131 Mind you of what happened, for instance, in Zimbabwe when Mugabe demanded the money printing machines to run relentlessly. However, you are not entirely wrong. High inflation means that public debt actually decreases in real terms; yet in reality governments tend to invariably issue a proportionally even higher amount of bonds. Meanwhile, households lose purchasing power because their incomes struggle to keep up with soaring prices. On the other hand, the governing elites who have access to public expenditure remain unscathed. The upside you probably think of is the fact that the general public does not really perceive the fact that they are actively being defrauded until it is too late. The ruling elites tend to have their way in indoctrinating their peoples and even facing sporadic revolts. This mean they can efficiently keep public order. This is the norm in many parts of the world. North Korea, Iran, Venezuela, just to name three out of the many many countries we consider socially, politically and economically problematic.

[@colinthompson3111]

The point of joining the EU is freedom of movement. The video refers to people that move as "migrants". They are EU citizens. If you come to North America, people move around to different cities to work in industry.

[@AdilAzharKhan]

Seems to me TLDR has a fundamental misunderstanding of what the EU is and stands for.

[@maddinek]

i also dont see the point regarding brain drain. if those countries werent part of the EU, they wouldnt get anything in return. for example if a polish dude goes to the US, what is the benefit for poland? none. this also happens without the EU being a role, just depends on the regulations for migration of the countries. so, in my opinion, being in the EU gives at least something in return.

[@unknownfugitive225]

There are many workers who move to richer economies for their higher salaries, before returning home to a place of lower living costs. In the final effect, this stimulates economic growth across the European Union, both for poorer economies from increased consumer spending, and for richer economies in mitigating stagnating growth from labour shortages.

[@nenasiek]

We are still diff countries, I know u guys would love for that to not be the case but u are gonna have to wait awhile before we lose all independence..

[@LEONSKENNEDY91]

​@@unknownfugitive225which in turn raises prices in the poorer country because of higher consumption for a weak economy

[@bogdanburlacu2951]

The massive difference in wealth between Romania and Moldova: exists TLDR News: I'll just pretend it doesn't.

[@draculakickyourass]

Electrician in Romania: 2500€ salary. Electrician in Moldova: 200€ salary. The rest is russian propaganda anti EU.

[@HumeanPiano]

One has a vastly bigger population, oil deposits, and an industrial base, another one has two separatist movements, with one having taken half the industry when it seceded, and is a largely agrarian country. Who'd a guessed one is poorer than the other.

[@giantWario]

Right so we're really gonna act as if Moldova hasn't been split in two since the nineties huh? You could list dozens of reasons why Moldova is poorer than Romania. Sure, not being in the EU is one of them but to act as if it's the most important reason or, even worse, the only reason is crazy.

[@bogdanburlacu2951]

@@HumeanPiano All this things are true, but it can't be denied that joining the eu greatly increased Romania's GDP and living standards. In the 90's Romania's GDP was close to Moldova's, but since joining the eu, our GDP grew a lot while Moldova's grew just a little bit.

[@bogdanburlacu2951]

@@giantWario Who said is the only reason? My point is that if Moldova joined the eu when we did, the wealth difference would not be as massive as it today. It would still exist of course, but I can explain all the reasons why in a meme comment, can I?

[@ZabavTubus]

Strange arguments that equally apply to any union or federation. It could be used to argue that the US needs to decompose into states, and that Germany needs to break up etc. because of brain drain, a strong currency and a tendency to develop powerful cities. Laughable.

[@urlauburlaub2222]

It even wrongly accuses the EU (and their strong members) for having States having regional differences, what is foremost the result of these countries or Socialist politics of the past and those of the present.

[@dlevi67]

@@urlauburlaub2222 So in your opinion the differences (e.g.) between the South of Italy and the North are due to Socialist politics? Please.

[@JoaoSantos-ur1gg]

@@dlevi67 Some people are delusional and see socialism everywhere. They'll even see socialism in Donald Trump if necessary.

[@dlevi67]

@@JoaoSantos-ur1gg Of the national socialism type? 😁

[@airtonsilva8006]

6:55 You say Italy´s GDP stagnated since joyning EU, but the graph shows that the GDP went up from around 1,250 billion USD to over 2,000 billion USD now. It´s almost double.

[@FrancescoBedini]

If you count for inflation that "doubeling" is not there

[@dlevi67]

Look at the EUR/USD exchange rate over that period...

[@unconventionalideas5683]

@@FrancescoBedini That might well not be true because GDP graphs usually adjust for inflation.

[@sigitasd1]

1. Yes, but in a long time, this effect is going down. 2. Is not related to the EU. You can see the same effect outside the EU. 3. Let me guess: you never actually lived in the country the government printed itself out of every problem? Euro is the best thing that happened to my country. I hated hyperinflation. You cant imagine how it feels, than food prices going up 50% a month, and your income - not! The governments should be financially responsible because in the long time your government ability to print money is a problem, not my government inability to do that!

[@Kalimdor199Menegroth]

Just because your government was fiscally irresponsible and was printing money to get out of debts that doesn't mean euro is a better option. Looking at the economic growth of the eurozone in the past 15 years and the economic growth of non-eurozone countries, one can say that the non-eurozone countries are growing at a faster rate. Also, without a unitary fiscal policy, the eurozone is never going to work optimally. Because what works in Germany, does not necessarily mean it works in Italy too.

[@sigitasd1]

@Kalimdor199Menegroth your comment is valid, and your arguments can be correct in general. But if we are talking concretely about the euro, we should talk also about concrete countries on the other side. In one country, the growth was bigger during the concrete period of time without euro, but in others, like Baltic states, for example, the biggest growth was after euro was introduced. That depends on your trade partners. What courency they use. If you stop converting pounds to dollars and then dollars to local currency for every trade operation you do, the only unhappy actor will be bank. Because it loosing his money for conversion. Also, the owner of the business will be very happy to receive more money for goods they sell, but not increas the salary of people who produce the goods or services and receive salaryin local currency. But these workers will be equally unhappy to pay more for goods and services produced outside of they country without a salary rise. So, is it actually good to country in general? Or is it good only to a small group of people who forgot to check in history how everything is always ending than you stop distributing wealth?

[@PhthaloJohnson]

@@Kalimdor199Menegroth Currency manipulation is never the solution long term. See Russia as an example where the central bank is raising rates further and further and printing more and more money waiting for the economic weight of the war and sanctions to go away. You're right, there should be a fiscal union eventually. It's probably not going to happen in the current political environment however. The only non euro-zone country that is benefiting from being outside the euro is Poland. The krone for example is losing a lot of value over time due to global events which is not a good thing as Norway imports a lot of things. Compare that to the situation in Denmark which has it's currency pegged to the euro.

[@urlauburlaub2222]

@@Kalimdor199Menegroth It takes time to change the government, and one way to restrict irresponsibilities is with the Euro, because everyone can see the irresponsibilities transparently. A fiscal union on top of that only works, if you have trust and those elites work hard, and they are not overruled by a dumb mass or wishful thinking. Otherwise, you won't find creditors. Take a look at the Austrian-(Hungarian)-Empire, it developed over time and you had a clear structure. Not everyone can make a good pizza with having all the ingredients, you need to have a good cook and power.

[@cr4yv3n]

1. no it will not and by the time it does IF it does the country will be destroyed completely 2. no you don't

[@Real_MrDev]

It has cons and pros. But the benefits FAR outshine the negatives.

[@Kalimdor199Menegroth]

I don't see the benefits to be fair. All I see are some numbers thrown around, cohesion funds that only affect the livelihood of a minority of skilled workers and entrepreneurs who were already living well-off before adopting the euro or before joining the EU. Meanwhile millions of our people are leaving. Skilled workers mostly. The income loss from that alone and the demographic crisis it creates cannot be alleviated by whatever EU funds we receive. Overall, after 17 years of EU membership, I think we lost more than we gained. And we don't yet see the overall impact, because the demographic crisis here has yet to show its true teeth.

[@PhthaloJohnson]

@@Kalimdor199Menegroth People would leave regardless unless you seal the border shut and become like North Korea. From what I've seen, skilled workers leave because they cannot find employment and being outside the EU would make that even worse not better. Fertility rates were dropping before communism even fell, EU accession did nothing. Even still, people leaving is bad for the country and a positive for the people that left, why force someone to stay somewhere they don't want to be if there are alternatives? You can clearly see from the numbers that the economy is growing in all these countries. That's what numbers are, a non biased look into what's actually going on.

[@Hardcore_Remixer_Alt_Acc]

Unless you are doing great on your own because you'd end up pulling the train that is EU after you.

[@ashardalondragnipurake]

there are no benefits to the EU there was great benefit to the trade union they used to tempt people in even some decent benefit of the euro but all those are now negated once the mask slipped off and its an unelected government ruling above the elected national government bogging down everything with bureaucracy

[@lend9754]

@@Hardcore_Remixer_Alt_Acc Tell that to the UK

[@bjornjonsson7037]

In the end ALL nations are much wealthier than if they had stayed out. All is not rosy but a higher standard of living makes EU membership a positive. The end...

[@x_zschannel]

Newsflash: Economists have calculated that the UK economy has grown 5.5% less since Brexit

[@marin8141]

​@@x_zschannel go live there See how long it takes you before you decide to go to a food bank

[@StrikeBolteafc]

@@x_zschannelwhich is less than most other countries

[@yeneman6110]

@@x_zschannel The UK is a total trainwreck. At this point, I understand the EU Commission's reluctance to make further deals with them. The 'british exceptionalism' ideology, the public unrest, the separatism in half the country, the posturing, the unreliability.

[@TheBaldOne]

​@@x_zschannelafter crashing how much? Source: I live here.

[@Neptune0404]

A fun note is that none of this would be particularly bad for a country like, oh I don't know, of the top of my head... the UK.

[@gameofender4463]

Except rejoining now means giving up the pound 💷. Which is an instant nope.

[@MrTohawk]

@@gameofender4463 because of what? emotional attachment to something like blue passports?

[@x_zschannel]

​@@gameofender4463Whilst a majority of Brits want to rejoin the EU, a minority would still join if that meant giving up the pound. I would want to rejoin the EU but not if that meant giving up the pound as well

[@vanh6500]

@@x_zschannelNostalgia is the first step to regression. I understand the attachment to something people have been using for ages, but no progress in history ever happened without a change. Despite that Brits are free to choose their way, as they did with brexit.

[@rogerphelps9939]

@@gameofender4463 Wrong. I am quite happy to be rid of the pound.

[@uplink-on-yt]

It's bad, but it's also good? Like that joke about statisticians: one with the head in a block of ice and the feet in a bucket of boiling water says they're feeling fine on average.

[@BoringopinionLMP]

In my village at the end of Romania. Was not asphalt, no running water, internet. And there were few cars or villas. Now are more like west

[@silveryuno]

All of these reasons would make great debate points. Because even if joining the EU caused these problems, leaving the EU isn't a magic solution to fix them.

[@cainneachdaugherty7172]

Skilled workers can usually acquire a visa anyway.

[@silveryuno]

@@cainneachdaugherty7172 Yes. There would still be a brain drain even if there was no freedom of movement. Russia's brain drain over the past 3 decades is the best example of this in my opinion.

[@cainneachdaugherty7172]

Did Russia ever have brains?

[@bonsai4658]

The British inside of him is showing. 😂

[@JorgeLopez-qj8pu]

Three reasons why the EU has benefited from Britain leaving 🤣

[@alx9r]

He left out the advantage that once his country leaves the EU his government no longer has to respect basic human rights.

[@SunbathinginAntarctica]

What do you mean by that?

[@RealOGfikey]

@@alx9r Wow. The sheer staggering arrogance that the EU is the ONLY thing a country must have before respecting human rights, like an independent country cannot have its own legislation enshrined in law that respects human rights. Where on Earth do you think a lot of the ideas that make the ECHR come from I wonder? I'll bet you're someone who can't feed yourself without the EU's hand holding the spoon.

[@papermangd]

@@alx9ryou are so ignorant 🙄 Britain is still under the European court of human rights and even some countries that are not under the European court of human rights (like Canada) still respect human rights.

[@TheAllRounderMemes]

Nice try Nigel

[@Gunbuster1000]

I expect more from TL:DR than click bait titles and poorly researched videos with wild claims to stoke viewership and engagment in the comments. Shame

[@Youcanatme]

I'd say it simply depends on how competent your government is and how rich you already are.

[@aabbccdd4710]

"Is joining the eu is bad idea?" 😂

[@aabbccdd4710]

E:SL news

[@Bolognabeef]

It's on purpose so people engage more in the comments

[@Siranoxz]

Joining the EU ill prepared is a bad idea yeah. But if prepared you can reap the benefits and actually become a economic monster if you can make it, and therefore start leading the continent through the EU.

[@looseycanon]

Yeah, brain drain is not about the EU. Sure, moving may be simpler, but if you have wage differences in area of between 200 and 300% of what you'll earn in your country, people will move even over mined borders. I live in Czechia, our median wage 39685 CZK (according to our statistical bureau), while minimum economic wage (also known as living wage) is around 47000 a month. Minimum wage is 18900 CZK. And we're still wondering why are people leaving, when in Germany is 1584€. which is approximately 40000 CZK. We already have similar prices as Germans and our companies are some of the most profitable ones in the world. Our workers provide very similar value to the German ones. Why don't we raise the minimum wage to match Germans? And I am quite certain, that you'd find similar problems all over the EU. Hell, Romania and Austria had a timber based scandal fairly recently, with Austria exporting free lumber from Romania. Also, given what's happening now in Hungary and Slovakia, I'm pretty sure, you'd find people domestic politics as reason for them to leave. As to the single market, well... it's not unified. we Czechs pay far more for mobile data than Germans or French, and cellular providers are whining over us still monkey branching between WiFis... That one is likely a problem of the EU, because it doesn't force a rule, that would make same good/service sold in all countries to actually be the same for the same price... Hopefully, we'll get there one day. As to regional inequality, that would have happened regardless. Business is better done from a hub, for which capitals are predisposed. It is true, however, that the EU (and nimbyism) is throwing some stones under the wheels. Because of nonsensical environmental policies, manufacturing (particularly heavy manufacturing) has left Europe for China and other low wage nations, and major factories is the one thing, that will never be in a country's capitol. Just look at Mladá Boleslav, how some 60% of the city is just factories belonging to a single brand! That you won't find elsewhere. And then there is the issue of employers being able to force people into offices, which also forces internal migration from countryside to the capitol. But that's two out of three reasons not being even associated with the EU! Italy is not a good example to give for Euro being a problem. Italy has Japan levels of development and wealth creation in the North and damn near Sudan levels in the South, dragging it back. Their lack of growth is not because of Euro, rather, they don't have the Rhein and Elbe, they are in a choked sea, one one end with Suez, on the other with Gibraltar, they have to cross the Alps to get to the rest of the EU for trade. Furthermore, tourism, something they banked heavily on, doesn't generate enough wealth to sustain itself. Famously, Venice is literally falling apart due to overtourism and people don't spend there enough to fix the city. As to saying, that countries prefer their own currencies... well highlighting Bulgaria for it is disingenuous the least, given they are on track to have Euro by 2026 at the latest and Croatia literally adopted the Euro two or three years ago! Let us also not forget, that Russia still has contacts in post-communist countries and has incentive not to allow their former satellites to further integrate with the EU. Public discourse should therefore be taken with a pinch of salt.

[@petermelang6695]

The minimum wage in Germany is 2151€ in 2024

[@JanBruunAndersen]

Minimum wages does not exist in Denmark and Sweden.

[@looseycanon]

@@petermelang6695 I found the number I posted... isn't what you mention guaranteed wage? Cause those are two confusingly close to one another, but different things and guaranteed wage is typically higher

[@looseycanon]

@@JanBruunAndersen Yes, and we know, what fairy tale lands those two are. I can guarantee you, your wages are still undercut.

[@bucium7]

Before Brexit, the British were shouting out loud and beating up their chests about how much better they would be without the EU, which was holding them back from sprinting forward and becoming great again. Well, we all know how that turned out, and in fact Brexit was nothing short of a disaster. That's because their decision was based on imperial nostalgia, rather than facts and reality. 4 years later, the UK is in no better position than it was before Brexit. If anything, it is in a worse situation and it will continue to be in a worse situation for the foreseeable future. So, I believe that the Brits should stop schooling others about what relationship they should have with the EU, and start schooling themselves. Sorry.

[@user-wj4et6gh5n]

Imperial nostalgia? You're nuts.

[@bucium7]

​@@user-wj4et6gh5n Err, was that an argument? 🤔

[@Erty_]

I feel like this video is blaming the EU for stuff that is the fault of their respective governments

[@Faucies]

Italy is showed here as an example of how adopting the Euro supposedly damaged a country. As an Italian, let me tell you that due to its history in the last 200 years Italy found itself to be overcrowded, scarcely industrialized, with a geologically scarse agricultural soil. After WW II its natural role in the integrated European economies was to provide emigrants as poorly skilled workforce to the other countries. When the markets were opened it Later became the low cost manufacture of Europe; the role poor countries have in present days. Should Italy have kept its lira and refused the EURO, the ease way out of problems would have been to let its currency continuously devaluate and for ever stay in its role of low income, low cost low added value productions. No incentives to engage in competition with more efficient economies, Italy would now be much worse off. This is not to deny that the governing elite should and could have done a much much better job. As for the brain drain, does anyone think that the well educated professionals, and so their country of origin, would in any way be in a better position if they had to remain forcibly in their country when that country lacked opportunities and chances to enhance their incomes?

[@Mr.barba97]

Well you are wrong. Our gdp grew a lot after the euro for ten years

[@GeorgeMasterclass]

The EU is a great trade block.

[@ashardalondragnipurake]

was, it isnt a trade union as they promised any longer and currently ads enough bureaucracy that any trade benefits are negated the original trade union was a great idea but thats nothing like what the eu is now

[@belstar1128]

but its also a lot of other things

[@AccidentalScience]

​@@ashardalondragnipurakethe EU was never meant as a mere trading union, but as a political union.

[@ashardalondragnipurake]

@@AccidentalScience that is the excuse they use now but im old enough to remember their sales pitch a trade union its so sad how little interest youth has in the past

[@AccidentalScience]

@@ashardalondragnipurake dude I'm an old dog. But most importantly I've read the history. The EU, ideally speaking, was born from people that fought for peace while in exile, from people that were in prison for dissenting the fascists, from people that had a dream: a peaceful Europe united in spite of diversity. It was a far greater thought than just a mere trade zone. Understanding all that as a trade zone means looking at the instrument while missing the goal. Have a nice night.

[@l.j.turner185]

Well leaving it sure was one massive cock up 🇬🇧

[@akselmc01]

I think the comments make it clear, that you should do a video dedicated to the benefits of joining the EU. This video is easily used in a biased way, and I fear it sends the wrong signals, without the balace of a positive side

[@ByWho-js5bq]

Im not too sure what time you guys release the videos in your time zone but havjng 2-3 videos ready for my 4am shifts is such a blessing. You guys make my morning!

[@GeraldDeBelen]

Joining the euro gives up monetary policy... Oh yeah, many Eastern European currencies were already pegged to the Deutsche Mark and subsequently the euro. What's to give up when your currency is already pegged?

[@Chrissy717]

Well, uh, uh...! BUT MY CURRENCY IS SO COOL AND SHINY!!!11!1

[@CryptoC4T]

What European countries have pegged value to Euro? Joining Eurozone is not healthy for smaller economies.

[@Ex-ws2vb]

Denmark/Bulgaria​ have curently pegged curencies to euro but many eastern eurozone countries including my Slovakia already had pegged currency to euro before joining eurozone and Montenegro and Kosovo are using euro despite not being in EU @@CryptoC4T

[@inbb510]

It just means you can devalue your currency when an economic crisis hits your country. This is why the Euro crisis particularly hit Greece extremely hard.

[@Iskelderon]

We've seen with Greece that someone above being able to hold you accountable for your actions can be veeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeery painful!

[@DivineFrag]

Estonia suffers badly from worsening regional inequality post-2004 (when Estonia joined the EU). Around 90% of the development funds went to Tallinn (the capital) and Harju County (the surrounding area) and even in 2024 when the top regional university (of the 3 Baltic states) is in Tartu (180km from Tallinn), the jobs never came here - they're still in Tallinn or Riga. Edit: I forget from when this stat was, perhaps 3ish years ago, but at that time, Tallinn was at the EU median or EU average while the rest of Estonia was at 70% of said median or average.

[@martinprochazka3714]

I totally want to give up control of our monetary policy. We experienced some 40-ish percent inflation during these three years, wasn't this what the national central bank with it's own currency was supposed to protect us from in first place?

[@ThePancake1468]

Two economists are walking in a forest when they come across a pile of shit. The first economist says to the other “I’ll pay you $100 to eat that pile of shit.” The second economist takes the $100 and eats the pile of shit. They continue walking until they come across a second pile of shit. The second economist turns to the first and says “I’ll pay you $100 to eat that pile of shit.” The first economist takes the $100 and eats a pile of shit. Walking a little more, the first economist looks at the second and says, "You know, I gave you $100 to eat shit, then you gave me back the same $100 to eat shit. I can't help but feel like we both just ate shit for nothing." "That's not true", responded the second economist. "We increased the GDP by $200!"

[@davianthule2035]

Addressing point two, This cannot be pinned to the eu, simply put, this is apart of the general broader trend of urbanisation which is a global phenomenon and is reflected in basically every substantial economy in the world, EU cohesion funds disproportionately target poorer regions on average on purpose, as for whether or not they favour higher end jobs though is difficult to predict. Also, so incredibly british to refer to eu citizens as migrants, my dudes, most eu states don't even internally classify eu citizens as even foreign anymore, i.e I as valid a local as any other, my presence is normal, etc. its now an exception,

[@janjanzen1218]

At 05:27 you say that the map shows that some urban areas have seen massive Growth while other areas lag behind. However the map is not about growth at all but about GDP per capita. It would be nice to see this detail corrected

[@paulz5420]

This analysis is deeply not to say massively flawed. Regional inequality was always there in Romania for example between Bucharest and the rest of the country and that's mainly due to the centralised system we have and much of the economy concentrated there prior to joining the EU. We also have many regions that have caught up or are catchin up with Buchares(central& west). And to to mention of the difference between living standards in Romania and some other countries that have not joined the EU in the region. There are so many flawed corellations -causations that it is hard to even count them. Just redo the whole thing, mate. Also, the rural-urban devide is terrible almost everywhere in the world(US, UK, etc). Mentioning Italy's stagnation and not mentioning the Recession and their debt crisis just their EU membership is just plain reductionist.

[@stefan-alexandruromanoschi8066]

As a small suggestion, to be a bit more precise, Freedome of movement and single market = EEA, European Economic Area, witch also includes Norway, Liechentenstein and Iceland. Also freedom of movement is also permitted for Swisterland. I know that the video is about EU, however I think pointing some detalias about the EEA could have a nice impact :D. keep up the good work

[@dirtyden1]

As a Brit. I can safely say. Don't make the same mistake we made. Yeah, the EU isn't perfect and does need to he more transparent with their intentions, but the UK has gone from a respectable country and economy to the sick man of Europe, and an absolute laughing stock.

[@adrianhudek9111]

Man. So here I deeply disgree. I come from a country that joined EU in 2004.All I can say is that from living in a caves and sleeping on the too of the trees, we now live in apartments and houses. From cleaning our bottoms in a river we use shower. From eating with dirty hands we use knive and fork. That is just a few things. Wr badicallly lived in a world with very little bright future ahead. Like I could make a 5 hours long video to explain in detail why joining the EU saved me and my kids from ending up in a mess.

[@waltershearls]

Can we stop pretending TLDR is a good source of news? Yes, they might make you aware of a topic, but constantly cherry-picking talking points without data or context. Why do they make so many mistakes in their videos that even a high school editor would catch. Hint: All across the world, most young people go to places for financial upward mobility, it's not mutually exclusive to the E.U.

[@x_zschannel]

@@waltershearls Unfortunately, plenty of logical fallacies splattered all over this video

[@tempejkl]

Yes, they’re very obviously a propaganda channel motivated by special interests. Many channels did not start out this way but then became this way. Like Kurtszegast, TLDR, or Johnny Harris

[@felixpayen2402]

Actually the map used on "Worsening the regional inequalities" do not answer to what you argument on. The map rather tell on the regions GDP/ per capita compared to EU average. It is not about growth rate or comparison between 2000 and today. Regions experienced GDP growth and were able to narrow the gap at some extent. Bulgaria average was 45% when joining the EU now it is 60-%. Also Balkans educated people didn't wait their country to join the EU to go there by there own means. The thing is that we have much less statistics and don't have the cohesion support to cope with it.

[@BenelliMr]

EURO is bad? I remember one day when Luxembourgers woke up one morning and were 20 percent poorer. At night the Belgian government had decided to devaluate the belgian franc by 20%. The Luxembourg franc was coupled with the belgian franc; the belgian government didn't inform or asked the Luxembourgers. So much about beginners playing with national currencies like the sorcerers apprentice. Vive Euro

[@ivanivic9901]

The GDP of all EU member states that joined the EU has increased. Countries like Finland, Poland, and Ireland faced hunger, but today, Poland’s annual GDP is ten times higher than during the communist era. The UK exited the EU, and Brexit reduced its GDP by 5 percent. The benefits of European integration significantly outweigh the drawbacks.

[@RealOGfikey]

Please. Covid and the Conservatives mini budget (amongst their other stupid economic ideas) were a far greater contributing factor to the loss of the UK's GDP. Stop with the propaganda. It's so obvious.

[@AdilAzharKhan]

Again with the EU FUD. It seems TLDR can’t cover any EU news that isn’t about war, economic downturn or crisis.

[@EricMartinez-x1l]

ok

[@dylanschulz9118]

tbf this is true of almost every news organization and for nearly every topic. Crisis coverage sells better than positive coverage, which is sad and makes the entire media space more toxic than it otherwise needs to be

[@AdilAzharKhan]

@@dylanschulz9118 It is sad, and you would think TLDR, being part of the new media space, would allow them to cover more balanced news, but it seems like you mentioned they’re doing exactly what older/traditional outlets are doing.

[@soundscape26]

Negative stuff sells

[@TheRealEtaoinShrdlu]

How is a limit on just printing money a bad thing?!

[@x_zschannel]

I don't think they understand one of the possible causes of inflation, and if out of hand, hyperinflation

[@crash.override]

It can be used (in moderation) to encourage investment, thus increasing employment/wages. E.g. like the US in the pre-COVID period. It does require a competent and independent central bank though. And not all eastern states might meet that requirement.

[@stiofain88]

To be fair, the US seems to be able to print it out faster than toilet paper without consequences. Not sure how.

[@gavinkemp7920]

It removes a powerful lever to manage your economy. If your economy is struggling, for example, you can print out more money increasing availability and their decreasing it values. This can make your products more competitive on the international markets and attracting investments at the cost of imports being more expensive. Well managed, this can be very helpful and can give that little boost your economy needs, but poorly managed it can lead to run away inflation and loss of trust from investors as the economy collapses from hyperinflation. And It can be interesting to do the opposite as well. If you are reliant on imports or your exports are going to do well anyway, starving cash can help too. It's a delicate balancing act. Which is why these kinds of things cause tension across Europe. If you assume your government will be responsible, which is usually the case for the larger economies, losing control of the currency is definitely negative. If you assume the government won't be, removing that power can be useful, which is why Milei is doing that in Argentina. But few governments will assume they are irresponsible.

[@Faucies]

@@stiofain88 because as soon the US treasury issues bonds, there is a world rush to who gets them first.... Doesn't seem that way for other economies..

[@AdamSchadow]

The wording here is really strange. Education is payed by the parents either in taxes or directly and the education quality is miserable in the east (speaking from experience) while also becoming less and less valuable. There is also a very positive effect for the actual people living in the east since it becomes way easier to exist here due to companies paying a lot for more skilled people relative to cost of living. WIth the increase in jobs people can do from a distance soon this trend will reverse and people will start fleeing high cost of living areas to save money.

[@cyberrb25]

The issue with transportation infrastructure projects is that it's just a bandaid that doesn't even work: The worst (and in Spain we have that issue in an internal level with high-speed trains to Madrid from everywhere else, emptying everything around it) that you can do is have a way to run away as fast and easily as possible from your place. You have some construction workers one day, and when the project is done, those no longer have a thing to do and have to leave on that shiny, easy-to-use, new infrastructure.

[@quiquemarquez3211]

My poor country Galicia suffering from the horrible rail network and RENFE's management all combined with the Spanish government's own incompetence dealing with the train system. Ave is a joke so far and do not expect it to change any time soon when you stop and think about how long it took to come to Galicia the result is just as embarrassing. Give us the improved rail network with Portugal(Portugal already did their part regarding that the rest falls in the hand of the Spanish government, with our Xunta big caring particularly about it cause PPDG and Portugal equals desinterest) for fast communication and trade, give us the competency to manage our own rail network and kick out RENFE, fix the inconsistent rail network concerning Lugo and the rest of Galicia as well as the average travelling time(not the hours we have to suffer nowadays alongside the many problems with trains not arriving on time) and efficiency of Galician trains. In general just fuck RENFE and fuck the Spanish Governments for being centralist assholes as well as horrible administrators. Sorry for the rant yet it felt really good putting it all together.

[@albevanhanoy]

An important caveat: Even if you think that for a specific country, joining was a bad idea, once you are in, leaving is an even *worse* idea. Because once integrated within such a system, pulling out will rip your economic threads apart. But the truth is every member state benefitted significantly, despite losing out in a few areas.

[@MunkeHQ]

"Is joining the EU is bad idea?" - Might wanna spellcheck that one guys

[@noahmurphy5366]

Speaking as a citizen of a country with a small economy I'm much happier having the EU central bank setting our interest rates than whatever trader decided tp have a cut at our currency this week. Small economies have no power to set interest rates or print money to suit themselves. The greatest illustration of how good eu membership is for a country is to contrast Polands fortunes with Ukraine from 2000 to 2022.

[@zupergraauwkegames8640]

Is there a reason for not using the little squigle for when a graphe's axis doesn't start at 0?

[@Kewwike]

This has been happening more frequently in Estonia: the government seems indifferent to its people. They keep raising taxes while offering no opportunities for graduates. As more people leave, they cut benefits and increase taxes even further, driving even more citizens away. It's a vicious cycle. When the government sets a tax quota to fund the country, and people start leaving, they end up in a deficit. This leads to panic and hasty decisions, which only serve to further frustrate the remaining residents.

[@vinny4765]

7:43 brilliant is where you learn by doing is something I can hear my sleep paralysis demon saying to me at 4 am in the morning at this point

[@LazyLifeIFreak]

Three reasons why subscribing to this channel might have been a mistake.

[@Aberrant17]

When the Brexiteer OD's on that copium:

[@Leugim010]

Blaming national economic and demographic issues on the EU is so 2011 💤

[@fatboyslim458]

That Croatia population graph is very misleading as the y axis is not at 0, so it looks like the population has dramatically collapsed.

[@x_zschannel]

The "Misleading Graph" fallacy

[@CMCNestT]

You forgot to include remittances ; the money immigrants send back to the home country.

[@thechamalowdestroyer2309]

As many people have pointed out, this was a poorly made video, this is not journalism, but sensationalism

[@ianpaulkenchington4311]

Nooo I just noticed they rerecorded the "ringing the bEHHHll" audio clip ): It was one of my favourite details of this channel (content is always top-notch).

[@mirandamondes3441]

I've been following all your channels since many many years ago, and I cannot help but notice how the editorial line has slightly and slowly (but steadily) turned from liberal to a more center-right outlook and analysis. Anyways, thanks for your videos. Greetings from France.

[@x_zschannel]

@@mirandamondes3441 It is probably because above all else, the criticism that news outlets take most seriously is "liberal bias". And so they incorporate more conservatism into their editorial line and the Overton window shifts in media as a result.

[@rogink]

The best thing about the Euro is for those of us who live outside it. When I was in my 20s I Interrailed around Europe and each new country I had to change money, even for a couple of days, then change it again in the next country. Now I can travel all around Europe - France, Spain, Italy, Germany, NL - not having to bother with exchange rates and commission. But I know that when I come home we have our own stable currency, not tied to an overheating Germany (OK, old news!) or a chaotic Italy.

[@lucasjames7524]

"There's a lot of difficult decisions to make here, and..." No, there aren't. I'm literally a random guy sitting at home. This is such an odd lead-in for the advert for a video which is basically just expository in nature.

[@jacobs.macauley4420]

I actually did a study and found two interesting findings (1) joining the EU increased RD spending in the country as % of GDP and (2) joining the EU decreased RD spending as % of GDP. The effect of Joining the EU was twice as big as joining the EURO.

[@PhilS-ps7ck]

The map being shown (e.g. at 5.27) appears to show GDP of regions as a percentage of the EU average (EU = 100) in 2019, not differences in regional GDP growth over time. What is being said may be true, but this map does not show that.

[@FSXNOOB]

Yeah EU & getting the euro is great.. Our salary get raised for 30% and our whole life got 80/150% more expensive, how can you not love the EU/euro :/ Greetings from Croatia..

[@yeaney]

Joining the EU was the biggest mistake Denmark ever made.. when it was just a trade union it was perfect.. now it is hell.. lower quality of life through the last 25 years as EU is making shit rules we have to tommow... so in basic, forigen people now making rules in my country should be ilegal...

[@stiofain88]

Ye are literally one of the most successful countries on the planet. Would ye ever get a grip and stop whinging

[@minasmina2700]

I don't see a problem in taking the power away from local central banks to print money and increase inflation. Inside a country, politicians have a lot of power to pressure their central banks to do as they are ordered. They cannot do this with the ECB.

[@AccidentalScience]

"best example" of Italy in the graph shown demonstrates an actual GDP growth since the adoption of the euro, where the stagnation starts from the 2009 financial crisis. Indeed the root cause of stagnant GDP is more about unfair competition from China and the legal framework in which ltd companies have to operate which forces them to be undercapitalized. Also, other arguments such as GDP of eastern countries are flawed in my opinion, as others have pointed out.

[@19932603A]

Regarding brain drain, there is a saying here where I live that goes along the lines of "Where there is a will, there is a way." While the Schengen might make it easier for more educated people to leave the country, there certainly is a way to leave without it. Here in Serbia a nurse earns 800 Euros at best while in Germany it's something like 3000/4000 Euros so why would they work here if they can work there? Not to mention that the hospitals are in poor shape and that is NOT the fault of the wealthier countries but the decade long neglect of the government to upkeep the quality of their working environment AND give them the respect that they DESERVE as doctors. The Schengen/EU membership by proxy would just make it easier for those people that feel underappreciated to leave, which, let's be real, is understandable. You can't lock people in the country and expect them to stay if they KNOW that there are greener pastures. The sad truth is that, while the rich countries benefit from poorer countries joining the EU (and with that give them essentially free highly educated workers while also slowing their population decline), they still don't want them in because the "foreigners are stealing their jobs" all while crying when there is a queue in the hospital because they are understaffed. On the other hand, poor countries' governments benefit as well. They get free money from the EU that they can launder through fake investments and pocket it themselves.

[@USEismydream]

The question is: what would be the alternative for poorer countries? Belarus, Russia or Turkey are not really convincing examples for development without an EU membership.

[@SpartanForces117]

What is missing, even in richer countries the local population becomes poorer because of wage dumping

[@Stef.Cata051]

The brain drain in in these part it's not because of eu but because of corruption, for example in Romania your chances of becoming a finding a job as a doctor or taking a decent position is ruined by nepotism and corruption, as for most workers, opening a company and trying to bid for government contracts is impossible as politicians are subscribed to said contracts... another reason to leave Romania are the salaries, the minimum income is barely 400€ and despite statistics most people live on this wage( the wage gap in Romania is massive considering that government jobs are better paid than private), while fuel prices and groceries are similar to Germany the salaries are less than half of an average German. I don't see these as problems caused by EU but by the government and the muppets running it

[@SeaWaves8]

When non native engliah speakers write scripts and everything is "exacerbated"

[@enricbf8475]

Those are all non-EU specific issues, some of the data is incredibly nitpicked or not correct at all, and reversing trends have been ignored. Tgere are other ways to present this issues, and other actual problems that the EU is facing. It's sad to see TLDRN quality and credibility erode. There's always been some misteps and bias, and noone has ever expected TLDRN to be a real news source, but lately its going so downhill

[@Mensch-oc2gy]

It´s kind of depressing for me that nearly half of all croats are spread around the world. 3.8 million croats are actually living in their home country BUT 3.2 million croats live outside croatia (Germany, Austria, Sweden, USA ...)

[@wotkosk]

Your arguments if "Joining the EU Might Not Always be a Great Idea" are grounded in the premise that these downsides would NOT be happening if country was not in EU which is FACTUALLY INCORRECT. Brain drain and worsening regional inequality have been happening for a long time even before EU. Yes EU single market made it easier for people to move but acceleration of urbanization is worldwide phenomenon and it is happening in non EU countries as well. Especially in eastern european countries where half of budget is lost in corruption, without EU money infrastructure in countryside would be non-existent. At the end of the day regional inequalities is first and foremost a problem which should be dealt on a national level...

[@x_zschannel]

@@wotkosk A lot of post-hoc fallacies splattered all over from them

[@wotkosk]

@@x_zschannel Enlighten me how am I wrong. Is brain drain and regional inequalities not happening in Serbia for example?? ​

[@x_zschannel]

@@wotkosk actually I'm saying you're right just saying TLDR has a lot of the post hoc fallacies. Sorry for the lack of context

[@makarhunter]

Well, you show statistics of what happened to selected countries after EU ascension, but to make a point to blame EU, you could compare the respective trend in some nearby countries which didn't (like in Eastern Europe). How well countries outside of EU were able to develop and fight inequality via brain containment and own central bank?

[@Gaming4Justice]

In Estonia, the fertility rate is the lowest it's been in since 1919. People literally had more children during WW2 than right now. The economy is so fkd.

[@JeffBilkins]

The educated people will return once they figured-out the housing crisis and how difficult it is to have a nice family home in the west.

[@chengmunwai]

6:50 - Italy adopted the EURO CURRENCY in 1999, this is NOT the date of joining the European Union. GDP from 1999 to 2022 which is like more than TWO DECADES Italy: US$ 1.25 -> 2.05 trillion (64% growth) France : US$ 1.49 -> 2.78 trillion (86% growth) Spain : US$ 0.63 -> 1.42 trillion (125% growth)

[@andrepolkstonia4728]

The causation of those issues being EU membership is highly questionable. EU funds poorer NUTS regions more and brain drain effects all worse off countries. And non-Euro currencies in Europe are losing value, fast

[@mikevarga6742]

U don’t need to be in the eu to be drained. Serbia has even had a drain of skilled workers.

[@x_zschannel]

@@mikevarga6742 Yep, it's the post hoc fallacy. Assuming that because the countries joined the EU, and then there was a brain drain, it was because they joined the EU when it happened in all eastern European countries, I assume because of the fall of the iron curtain and those countries joining shortly afterwards?

[@philippritzinger6489]

The braindrain point does not hold: UK profits from braindrain regardless, but does not even pay taxes to the EU

[@dan7582]

Oh no, people are having more freedom to go where they are treated best. That is indeed very bad, we have to stop it! 😭😭

[@tempejkl]

Clearly you have no ability to decipher nuance. We should make everywhere the best places it can possibly be. By draining resources via capitalism we do the exact opposite

[@hyperteleXii]

Moronic take. Not every place is the same. You would throw money at developing a metropolis in the Sahara desert just because "every place deserves to be the best it possibly can."@@tempejkl

[@tempejkl]

@@hyperteleXii Creating a metropolis in the Sahara would be a disaster, look at examples of desert cities in the USA with all their water issues - and it also damages the local environment. Not the best for the area - especially since it’s unfit for human habitation.

[@dan7582]

@@tempejkl Yes, instead of giving tax incentives and improving salaries a more effective solution would be to adopt the North Corea style: Forbid everyone from leaving, that way we ensure all the skilled talent stays in.

[@tempejkl]

@@dan7582 No? Make it good enough so that people go where they desire, not where theyre forced to. Hate seeing people complain about refugees when NATO caused this whole mess in the first place

[@gonzamateo9971]

well, you forgot to tell that if a spanish Doktor come, for example to Austria, a Colombian doctor will move to Spain. When i was in Spain I saw that the employes on the Hospitals were from Ukraine, Colombia or Ecuador Also the main drivers of these movements are the salaries. and as the people leaves the salaries will improve and in some years they would be back. Estomia has a positive migration rate since 2017 and Lithuania since last year, so more lithuanians are coming back than leaving the country. people for work will be always here, or come from porest countries, si if in Spain the workers on agriculture came from Romania, in Romania came from Nepal or India, also the spanish ones leave to work in France. its just a Kette.

[@kreepykraut8153]

Not very well researched, you underestimate the influence on Poland, just for example. Moreover, you only talk about Eastern Europe. What about Ireland? In every country there are ups and downs in the economy. And in the long term, being a member state is - as of yet - the better choice.

[@tempejkl]

In Ireland not everything is as it seems

[@kreepykraut8153]

@@tempejklyou‘re right, of course, yet what I was referring to, was a time, when Eire wasn’t part of the EU, then joined in, became „the Celtic tiger“ (at that time Germany was called „the sick man of Europe“ by the Economist) and a couple of years it was the other way round… and so forth

[@inbb510]

​@@kreepykraut8153, Ireland is quite literally a tax haven for big tech conglomerates so a pretty weird hill to die on to make the case specifically for the EU.

[@kreepykraut8153]

@@inbb510 here I disagree. Why? Well, Ireland is only a tax haven, because it became an EU member, otherwise it would be worse off, than it was before it joined the EU. And after joining, Eire used its possibilities cleverly. Of course only for the sake of very few, and not all the Irish, hence it is very true, that not everything is well in the state of Ireland. It could be a lot better of, if it had used the possibilities the EU offers, yet greed and stupidity took over. Hence I admit, you are partially right, since the EU has a problem in dealing with „abusers“ like Ireland, Hungary or partially Poland. But the EU was „naive“ (if one could put it like that).

[@dansomething7742]

The internet is insane, the EU is very obviously not perfect and it's bizarre that pointing that out always brings demented screeching from comment sections like this one

[@paul1979uk2000]

Problem is in today's world, most people tend to look for flaws in things and not the good something does. The EU isn't perfect and reforms are needed, but it does far more good for its members than if it didn't exist, but unfortunately, we are living in a very negative world that's always looking at the negative of things and not the positives, most of this blame is on the right wing, from politics to the media, they are always blaming things, not being very constructive, dividing people and more or less being troublemakers, they are rarely constructive with credible solution, but are very quick to point fingers and blame, a big part of the problems we are having is because the right wing are whipping up a mob mentality from the people, a lot of which is based on lies, half-truths and disinformation, we saw that just recently in the UK with the riots and with things Elon Musk and Farage said, basically, troubles makers that were trying to put fuel on the fire to make things worse, and if you look closely, you start to realise where the real problem is.

[@PhthaloJohnson]

Because people are scared that EU skepticism will grow and will lead their country to leave the union. It's a fight response from people feeling threatened.

[@dansomething7742]

@paul1979uk2000 I'm not confident these reforms will ever happen. It is a fundamentally undemocratic institution, and it has only been heading further in that direction since it started

[@swedemartyrsonswade]

I can attest to the situation in Poland. Warsaw is a big city and quite modern but if you go to other cities you will know the difference but I guess it would also be somewhat comparable to Berlin and eastern states in Germany.

[@asan1050]

Thanks for posting this video

[@maierrrrr]

why would you work in Romania when state tax is around 42% and average wage is 900€?

[@stiofain88]

Because it's one of the most beautiful and safe countries in Europe.

[@santostv.]

It's a fair deal without the eu my country would be stuck in the 80s, yes we lost 15% of our population in 20 years but the blame is on our governments and not the eu. What's the point of living in a beautiful country if you cant enjoy it, better be sad with money than without 😂

[@sustainable-soil]

There are no poor or rich countries; rather, the role corruption and inequality play in causing brain drain is key. Contributing factors include corruption, mafia ruling, lack of democracy, weak rule of law, limited freedom, and the overwhelming influence of religion