3. The Mayan Collapse - Ruins Among the Trees

WATCH WITH VIDEO: • 3. The Mayans - Ruins ...
In the tropical forests of Central America, vast stone pyramids slowly crumble beneath the trees.
In this episode, we look at that great romantic mystery: the fall of the Classic Maya Civilization. Find out how this great civilization grew up among environmental conditions that no other civilization has ever contended with, learn about the fatal flaws that lay beneath its surface, and what happened after its final, cataclysmic collapse.
Support Fall of Civilizations on Patreon: / fallofcivilizations_po...
Credits:
Sound engineering by Thomas Ntinas
Voice Actors:
Bryan Thsiobi
Jacob Rollinson
Jake Barrett-Mills
Helena Bacon
Music by Kevin MacLeod is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution license (creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/) Artist: incompetech.com/
Title theme: Home At Last by John Bartmann. johnbartmann.com/

[@DataJuggler]

5:00 Your last point about 'I want to see what life was like for a person watching their world collapse', was the biggest part that is lacking from history taught in public schools (at least in the US is all I know). Names and dates we were forced to memorize are so boring, but the gory details "they" decided to shield school kids from is what makes history interesting.

[@canadiannavigator3346]

Check out the Kings and Generals Channel on YT. You will not be disappointed.

[@garyha2650]

@@canadiannavigator3346 "Kings and Generals Channel" Thank you for that, I might just watch them all, as a refugee fleeing the US media flood of deceptions, especially now after the fraud-filled election with no visible real oversight

[@l.c.cooper9714]

Your stories are so vividly rich in detail that I can envision standing among the ruins. Never before has history captivated me for hours. I thoroughly enjoy your podcasts. Kudos to you, Mr. Cooper.

[@stonesourjim]

This podcast series is some of the best stuff I've listened to in a very long time.

[@vudu8ball]

I feel we are living in the declining moments of modern civilization and these videos fill me with sorrow.

[@lukegogerty3820]

😅c😅

[@grassfeeding6073]

Very good synopsis. Pre-Columbian civilizations have fascinated me for a number of years, due in no small part to how much is still unknown. I have visited a number of maya sites ranging from small trade outposts to large cities in Mexico and Belize over the past couple decades and I am always fascinated with what I learn. The Maya were highly influential in the region, with trade networks that may have ranged as far as the SE United States. They were a truly fascinating civilization that deserves much more study and preservation.

[@FallofCivilizations]

Thank you so much for the kind words! Sounds like you've done some incredible exploring.

[@knutthompson7879]

Just the horrible cultural tragedy involving destruction of the Mayan texts (and Rongo-Rongo texts of the Rapanui) makes my heart ache. Writing was such a rare and (on this planet) uniquely human invention these relics are (were) among the most indescribably precious of our species, and they were destroyed for no imaginable reason beyond arrogance.

[@FallofCivilizations]

Yes, it's a terribly sad thing. I'm always drawn to those stories.

[@Damorte]

The friars effectively destroyed thousands of years of written history. Its a very sad loss.

[@belliott538]

I'd be curious to know what the Vatican has Locked Away in their RIDICULOUSLY Secret Vaults... Wouldn't surprise me to find a Mayan book or two... And Who Knows What Else?

[@Damorte]

The vatican did not condone the destruction nor did they sanction or order it. Rather the opposite actually. The vatican had ordered that the indigenous people of central america was to convert on their own accord. Diego De Landa took matters in to his own hands, after discovering that the natives after 20 years were still secretely conducting human sacrifice, praying to idols and in general following their ancient customs hidden away from spanish eyes.

[@SSHitMan]

I had an archaeology class in college in the 1980s, and my professor was one of the archaeologists digging in Copan. This account squares pretty well from what I remember of his classes - overpopulation > crop failure > endless civil war. He attributed much of the crop failure to intensive farming on hillsides, which caused the topsoil to wash away. Pollen samples in soil from the era confirmed pollen from trees and shrubs greatly decreased as pollen from crops like corn increased, indicating the hillsides were all stripped bare for farming in a desperate attempt to feed the population.

[@timelanguid4813]

This is a great production so thanks to all involved. I remember Oscar Spengler wrote a book about the rise and fall of the civilizations. I will have to dig it out to see the connection here.

[@alynneloup7707]

These podcasts are amazing. A note of hope -- Life is cyclic -- Especially in these declining times of this "modern" civilization please remember -- The Maya are still here, quietly passing on their culture, the Native Americans, are still here, reconstructing their language and their belief system, the cuniforms and glyphs all over the world are being studied and translated. We will survive, maybe wiser and kind. Very refreshing scholarship, Thank you

[@veronikalynn5084]

Betty Meggers’ theory on society regarding energy, starting at 49:53, seems…very relevant now 😅 As relevant as it always is I suppose. I guess it reminds me of how, when our sinuses are acting up and it’s hard to breath through the nose on one side, it’s so frustrating and miserable. Then how lovely it is when that clears up and suddenly we can take deep, full breaths. How grateful we are. One time I even told myself “from now on I’ll remember to be thankful for this simple gift of a clear left nostril” 🤣 I know it’s only natural but I can’t help but find it sad and kind of scary how we tend to take such amazing and vital systems for granted when they’re working smoothly

[@jalight27]

Love that take 👍

[@panchora99]

As a Honduran it pleased me ro hear Copan beinf mentioned. Do try to visit Copan in Honduras and Antigua in Guatemala when you have a chance.

[@jordaneggerman4734]

You, sir, make some of the highest quality content on KZbin. I have wept for burnt cities and ransacked capitals, and I have been immensely moved by poetry and laments, the world over. It almost makes me wish there was more human history for you to cover, if it weren't for stories, like those of the Rapa Nui, who had little hand in their own downfall.

[@LIE4ME]

Five thousand subscribers in 21 hours. Here we go. You earned it Paul. Enjoy this ride.

[@FallofCivilizations]

Thank you Mike, I appreciate it!

[@alehaim]

That war of chess and then paying off after century was beautiful. Should be a story/movie honestly

[@davidcoleman2463]

I climbed the kukulcan pyramid at Chichen Itza back in 2003 . I went inside . Now you can't do that . I have been to Usmal and Tulum a few times . I visited the ruins at Palenque . They have a great little museum there . Beautiful water fall . I did magic mushrooms . Lol . I then went down to Guatemala to visit Tikal . That part of Central America is amazing. I now have a Little place on Isla Mujeres off the coast of Cancun to vacation on . I love Mexico. Thank you for all your videos . The one on Briton and the one on the Aztecs . They were great .

[@FallofCivilizations]

Thanks David! Sounds like some incredible travels.

[@Foogi9000]

.

[@ML-rz2hb]

One possible subject for a future podcast might be the collapse of the Ife people of Nigeria and the surviving bronze sculptures of Benin. There was at least one amazing 14th century genius who seemed to invent remarkable art, and perhaps many more than one. A difficult subject to research as African records are scarce. Love your podcasts!

[@FallofCivilizations]

That's a great suggestion! I'll have to look into this.

[@wx-01]

Thank you. Brilliant as always. Waiting for the next one mate!

[@FallofCivilizations]

Thanks, glad you enjoyed!

[@filthychav776]

excellent. one quibble would be that one of the actors reading the mayan texts was very unclear.

[@Ceci_et_Cela]

I really enjoy your content. I listen to one of your videos every night before bed. Please don’t ever delete your videos from youtube or make them private. I would be so crushed. It is so disappointing when channels do that. Seriously, you are in my top 3 favorite you tubers.Thank you for sharing all your hard work with us.

[@rogersledz6793]

You have created a marvelous series. It is so informative!

[@FallofCivilizations]

Glad you think so!

[@jamesmejia2195]

I love this series of podcasts. It is captured so perfectly. Thank you for this awesome series

[@diggingwithdugan3084]

Got chills hearing of the book burning, proper story telling. Real shame that tho.

[@FallofCivilizations]

Yes, one of the great historical tragedies!

[@diggingwithdugan3084]

Ya no. The spanish conquistadors had no respect for none Christian culture and no desire in it beside how to use it to convert the locals. Most of what we know is just that notes from the men who converted them and that's most of what's left from what I gather.

[@diggingwithdugan3084]

We couldn't read it if we gad it anyways

[@diggingwithdugan3084]

If his claims are true he'd see an expert on the subject and or make his findings public. Accusing someone of simply believing what suits them is rude and unnecessary tho. I believe what the evidence shows and when evidence is provided we take it into account but until we can see what he's got debates is pure speculation.

[@awakenasleepsheep2861]

@@diggingwithdugan3084 Please explain WHY the Vatican has 54 miles of caverns under there. If not forgotten history WHAT ELSE COULD BE THERE? Of course the supposed book burnings went back to the Vatican and the priest has no reason to LIE!!! He has NOTHING TO LOSE!!!

[@ThroneOfBhaal]

These are amazing. The only thing I wish is being able to see the pictures here. :/

[@pbarsamian526]

this series is incredible. so much information!

[@elamite66]

incredible indeed

[@bmyra]

This is amazingly great. Thank you!

[@voxvire2350]

My weekend has been saved! Thank you so much.

[@ErikaLomeli]

just what I needed for my school project. Thanks!!

[@FallofCivilizations]

Good luck with project!

[@Helpwood]

Another astonishingly great document, well presented brilliantly writ -- many thanks Fall of Civilizations. I do like the piano hook - 'time stands still' segment... nice hook. All the best...

[@TheMrCougarful]

Brilliant. Moving and eloquent.

[@parallel9201]

This episode was truly remarkable! It was very engaging and made me question a lot about Mayan life. First of all, ball games? Wow! Little details like this truly make learning history even better. Also Star Wars sounds a lot cooler now that it has nothing to do with space and more to do with irl stuff. I also can’t help but compare the impact of a changing climate and crop failures with the lack of development in many countries today. Good agriculture is a staple feature in civilisations and the Mayans were certainly good at it, but it really had a significant impact on their history. Finally, in relation to a bit of alternate history, do you think if the Mayan language (written) was more accessible to the common people, like how many of the written scripts in the Fertile Crescent were, Mayan history and civilisation would’ve revived or stayed strong? Sorry for the long post but thanks again for making these! They’re so detailed and well thought out that I take notes whilst I’m listening lol!!

[@jasonprice5289]

There's a book you should read if you have a chance. It's called aztec and the author is gary jennings. You will not be disappointed.

[@carriersailor2474]

@@jasonprice5289 I read that decades ago - it carried me right through. I had read much popular stuff about the Aztec and Maya and it seemed very faithfully accurate, as well as simply a very good novel.

[@jasonprice5289]

@@carriersailor2474 quite possibly my favorite book. That and the stand are the only books over 1,000 pages I've read more than once.

[@northbetrue]

Great job. Well written, pleasing to the ear voice. Aces. Thank you

[@FallofCivilizations]

Thank you! Glad you enjoyed.

[@glenn-younger]

I'm really enjoying your KZbin channel because you bring history ALIVE. In one weekend, I've listened to 3/4 of the play list. So, now I have a question: Would it be possible (and within the guidelines of KZbin) for you to add a link in your description where we can make a small donation of appreciation?

[@amateurastronaut5006]

There is a patreon link in the description. I think you can donate there.

[@gordybishop2375]

Great series. Well presented. Thank you

[@elamite66]

your voice itself is so dramatic and fits so well with the subject that I am totally enraptured

[@Peter-MH]

Outstanding work!

[@FallofCivilizations]

Thank you!

[@vgrof2315]

Excellent, excellent, excellent!

[@johnfromdownunder.4339]

Really so grateful for yr work yr amazing

[@harryzarry13]

You've got a unique style Cooper. Well done.

[@taylorsingleton3351]

How cool! Hope more people find out about this. Great job.

[@suzannecranny9838]

Will we ever learn? So much resonates with what's going on still; greed, war and bad management. Depressing, but very interesting

[@Jim-Bob-24-365]

Thank you sir!

[@jessicabrommit7980]

“Faltering like a failing radio signal and then crackling out into silence. Each of these cities goes out one by one, like lights blinking out in the dark”. Man, I could just SEE that imagery like it was a modern map of a country in the middle of an apocalyptic disaster movie.

[@crazyhistorian]

Building palaces doesn't mean it has to be period of thriving economical success. In Venice, during the period of economical decline segnoria was building palaces and houses in Terraferma.

[@MobileMood]

Excellent

[@jaazielegarciahernandez2035]

awesome videos! wondering if there's an Olmec video in the works?

[@escapevelocity6185]

splendid

[@amcurry9802]

I just came across a KZbin channel, Timeless Discoveries, where someone has rerecorded your FoC episodes as if they were their own, with a different narrator Even same titles on the episode.

[@bishopscore]

I am writing my second textbook and listening to Paul's soothing voice in the background. Thank you, Paul!

[@ElsieDreamWorld]

I love your podcasts, but, maybe you could use a lower volume background music? Thanks for them anyway.

[@FallofCivilizations]

Thanks for the feedback! If you listen on Spotify or any other podcast platforms, I've reduced the prominence of the music in the first three episodes. But KZbin doesn't let you re-upload a file unfortunately.

[@brento3]

Its perfect

[@landonkincaid6630]

Does anyone know what that little piano tune at the beginning is called

[@mlc2200]

What’s the song at 7 min? It’s great

[@_asantesana_squashbanana_]

Hey mate, can I ask your area of study? I'm having trouble finding the right degree to formalise my knowledge. Great podcast, been following you for years. Primarily video content, but the podcast is so appreciated. Be well.

[@NelMill]

I must know what is the piano melody or song that plays when you say the fall of civilizations podcast

[@FallofCivilizations]

Home at last by John Bartmann

[@charlesschwaboverhere5582]

Great podcast. It's interesting that the culture had been in decline hundreds of years before the Spanish showed up to put a final end to it. Was this also true with the Aztecs? Considering the diseases that killed 8 or 9 out of 10 people, it seems as though these great cultures of the Americas are doomed even without the brutal practices by the Spanish. Even friendly contact would have killed off the Aztecs due to disease, and similarly with the Mayans.

[@FallofCivilizations]

The Classic Mayan collapse took place hundreds of years before the Europeans arrived, whereas the Aztecs were in their ascendancy at the time. Yes, the diseases were devastating, but populations can recover quickly if allowed to. The devastation of the Black Death for instance had some benefits in terms of breaking up the feudal system. You're right that the introduction of smallpox and other diseases was a trauma that the people of the new world would always have had to deal with, but being utterly divested of their lands wasn't necessarily.

[@bdoon51]

This video no graphics Should have been a podcast

[@benpeters5851]

Great now I'm thinking about a bunch of Mayan warriors with lightsabers

[@FallofCivilizations]

I would watch this movie.

[@manoloxines9113]

Just love Amerindian civilisations...crackin' stuff Mr.Cooper!

[@Thomas-wn7cl]

👍👍👍

[@michaelmcconnell7302]

I know you need to have ads, but Jesus christ. any time I get settled in and really start to visualize, I have to get up and skip a commercial

[@FallofCivilizations]

Thanks for bringing this to my attention! There aren't supposed to be mid-video ads on my audio-only episodes. They have been removed now.

[@michaelmcconnell7302]

@@FallofCivilizations oh wow thank you. sorry for being rude, I'm really enjoying this series. like REALLY. and that was certainly uncalled for and embarrassing.

[@FallofCivilizations]

@@michaelmcconnell7302 No don't worry! It must have been really annoying people, so I'm glad you brought it up.

[@alanbourbeau24]

Whenever I’m getting ready for bed and use my cpap machine, this fall of civilization podcast is really useful and helps me fall asleep.

[@timelanguid4813]

Interesting connection here with episode 1 how the Romans met resistance from the Britons..🤔

[@carolynomm4013]

Book burning, soil erosion, soil depletion, will we learn? Is the global information net our last chance to smarten up? I hope so. With the growing awareness of the gut biome immunity link , we can also see that apply in our soil. Microbial health in the soil is paramount, this does entail nutrition. Biodynamics preparations from a hundred years ago is still not well known, but the discovery of activated bio char, ( part of soil cultivation by some Amazonian tribes ) the nutrient pact and bacterial inoculated char coal particles are paramount for soil cultivation in poor, depleted soils. Thus fare we do not care for our macro world let alone our micro world. How can we separate everything and survive? If we do not understand that all is linked, we are the abomination. Thank you historian researchers and story tellers, that we may learn through you. 🙏

[@graccusbro2061]

how much of this is inspired by "Collapse" by Jared Diamond? I would have expected to see this credited.

[@arnonuehm1]

Are you still working on this podcast? By all means, take your time, I'm just a bit concerned that you might have stopped entirely, because there hasn't been a new episode for a while.

[@FallofCivilizations]

Hi there! Yes, episode 4 should be coming in the next week or so. I try to aim for one episode a month, but I am just a one-man team.

[@arnonuehm1]

@@FallofCivilizations wow thanks for the quick reply! I'm very much looking forward to it, this pod is awesome! :)

[@FallofCivilizations]

@@arnonuehm1 Thanks, really appreciate the kind words :D

[@miriamcorneli4225]

Fantastic information great voice and excellent research.. thank you.. but the piano is rather annoying

[@GoldenFishingHorde]

Definitely Theon Greyjoy talking

[@emilyparker3987]

These comments are very friendly and I am frightened.

[@ngawairenau5582]

hehehehehe

[@emilyparker3987]

👀

[@recurrenTopology]

I don't understand why Europeans would doubt the Mayan ruins were built by New World cultures, as both the Aztecs and Incas were living in large complex cities with grand architecture at the time of contact. Had the accounts from the Spanish conquests been lost to 19th century scientists?

[@IvorMektin1701]

They were the Flat Earthers and moon landing hoaxers of their day.

[@hemanthnair1290]

Because the late 19th century/early 20th were like the peak of 'scientific racism'.

[@thomaspalmer2828]

I imagine that some of it had to do with the fact that almost all of those records would have been in Spanish, where as the scientific establishment of the time mostly just spoke English. Combine that with the fact that Cusco and Tenochtilan were backwaters compared to the ancient Mayan cities and it becomes a bit more understandable. The racism in mainstream science at the time also would have had an impact, they had a rather linear view of cultural evolution so a civilization without things like metal and the wheel does not compute.

[@Valdagast]

What historian described society as a machine, with thermodynamics?

[@zp944]

My wife is Mexican. Her grandmother still lives a very traditional lifestyle, in Mexico. I play this video on speaker, twice a week, to remind her that "white people" doesn't always mean English speakers. The very language she cherishes so much is in fact a relic of the complete annihilation of her ancestors.

[@usewhatyouhave6975]

Wait so there has been periods of climatic change in the past not caused by humans but by the sun and other factors???? What!!!

[@FallofCivilizations]

Yes of course, the climate is a delicate system. That's why this most rapid and dramatic shift in the planet's entire history is so dangerous.

[@connarcomstock161]

"...The Mayans had been spare the inqusition...." "...So and so announced the beginning of an inquisiton..." WHICH MEANS! *NOBODY* EXPECTED IT!

[@FallofCivilizations]

Nobody ever does

[@MrDirtclodfight]

Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!😁👉👌

[@garcia83viz]

This is a awesome channel!!! But.. in another doc. (Blood of Kings) I ts said that Diego De Landa wanted most to learn the Maya language, and he spent years trying to translate it on paper , and shared the bible ... But when he saw Mayans practicing ancient traditions, having learned what they were saying... Well he took it the wrong way.

[@sarcasmo57]

Seems the Spanish destroyed everyplace they went.

[@knutthompson7879]

There was a lot of that, though sadly they weren't the only ones. Many clashes of two civilizations throughout history ended with the utter destruction of one of them.

[@AvoidTheCadaver]

All the colonial powers did the same. It's just thst there's a lot more known and written about the Spanish conquest of Central and South America. The Belgian activities in the Congo, the Italian colonization of Ethiopia, the Dutch in South Africa. Etc etc. And it wasn't limited to the west. Any ancient empire that saw itself as superior would view less developed or less civilized societies as not worth respecting and only worth subjugating.

[@BATTERIESc]

@@AvoidTheCadaver All stone age civilisations where the wheel had not be discovered. Would it have been more cruel to leave these areas in their basic form and deny them technology?

[@AvoidTheCadaver]

@@BATTERIESc They were doing fine before colonials arrived. They were in no way "suffering" from the lack of technology. Suggesting that it was "cruel" to let them stay less developed is the sort of euro centric colonialist arrogance that led to their conquest and subjugation.

[@Beebopbopable]

Exactly

[@SHEK092036]

Where is Indus valley civilization ?

[@allisonschempf2230]

I'd like to hear a podcast about that too.

[@xuig8126]

30:20

[@machineman8920]

I need you to center the moon to the "o" in the title or i'm going to find you

[@bedhestda]

I want to watch Mayan take on star wars. I bet it would beat Disney version hands down!

[@johntrojan9653]

Their Housing Market Crashed - (Just as Ours !!)

[@TeethToothman]

☠️💀☠️

[@MourningCoffeeMusic]

And people say Christianity isn’t/wasn’t destructive. If it wasn’t for that Spanish bishop, we’d have countless more ancient Mayan writings to give us insight into their history. Not to mention, the countless lives lost to this tyrant.

[@Art-ot2jn]

The Roman catholics in particular destroyed every civilization in the name of God's will

[@synthetiCore]

Who are the people you’re referring to when you say “people say”? Any faith or belief system can be abused by its adherents and Christianity is no different, and I don’t think any serious person would disagree. The distinction of course is that as a faith, Christianity does not call for the acts of the Spaniards and their inquisitions. Unfortunately there have been myriad examples throughout history of so-called “Christians” pillaging and murdering to their twisted hearts’ content and using their “faith” as an excuse to do so. Such people only fool themselves with their supposed faith and are clearly not following Christ in their actions. History doesn’t look favorably upon such people.

[@KWW0321]

Makes you wonder how much knowledge was lost due to the catholic church.

[@KWW0321]

@@GB-fv7uy Absolutely true.

[@monicafelstead3260]

Lives, languages, architecture and entire civilizations have been lost because of the Catholic church. It's so pathetic that those people used religion as an excuse for their brutality.

[@KWW0321]

@Monica Felstead Yeah it really is unfortunate how various religions have been used as justification for atrocities throughout history.

[@KWW0321]

@Monica Felstead Yeah it really is unfortunate how various religions have been used as justification for atrocities throughout history.

[@NewYorkPickers]

Or how much is kept in its archives to claim as Whites’ discoveries.

[@irenehamilton8046]

The organic knot densply scare because trousers socioeconomically list via a imported element. black-and-white, sturdy step-aunt

[@johnenglander4830]

Are you a teacher?

[@FallofCivilizations]

I teach part time in some universities in the UK, and I used to teach English as a second language.

[@jesperhjensen1978]

Great podcast, please leave out the piano music out thank you

[@limodrivermike]

that constant piano tinkling blows

[@robgau2501]

I know it's popular to blame colonization for everything and to see everything as an injustice. But let's remember that the Mayans regularly sacrificed hundreds of children for rain. The Mayans sacrificed more people in a year than can be counted. They were betrayed by their own people becoming of this. The Spanish weren't saints either. But they weren't sacrificing people. I'm not on either side to be honest.

[@wroughtiron7258]

What a silly script. Acting like Diego de Landa was having one pulled over on him by writing down the mayan alphabet. He wrote them down on purpose, obviously. He wanted to stamp out a rival civilization's culture; a necessary step for increasing his own civilization's dominance and hegemony over the Americas. He didn't care if other Spaniards saw them.

[@user-gk3qg9ln5e]

THIS WAS THE WORST MOVIE EVER

[@FallofCivilizations]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/sGq8qJmKmtd0mqM

[@nicoscarfo4486]

Just like the Egyptians didn't build the Giza pyramids, the Aztec, Maya and Inca built none of these megaliths, they inherited these ruins, do you really think if they were sophisticated enough to build like this they would have used these structures for something as primitive as human sacrifice

[@pavtheslav9500]

Unnecessarily judgmental of America. Unsubscribed.

[@tristanycox1967]

I love this podcast! The ones with film footage are so well done I constantly forget I'm not watching a documentary! Thank you for all the time I'm sure this has taken you all to create. ❤️✨️🤌

[@FallofCivilizations]

Thanks Tristany, very kind of you