302 San Diego Cessna P210 Crash - Poorly flown ILS and low fuel

[@aaronbrown6266]

You can really hear the distress and frustration in the SOCAL Approach woman's voice. So tough to lose a plane, knowing you just heard the last words of the pilot and watching him disappear off of your screen. Hats off to all controllers. Their job one of the toughest. I thank them as often as I can for helping to keep me and so many other pilots safe.

[@simeon2851]

They face the same trauma as surgeons in my opinion.

[@AviationNewsTalk]

Agreed, I love our local NorCal controllers and I'm sure they're just as good in SoCal.

[@robertgregory8936]

Thanks for the talk. I noticed the ‘three strikes’ against this pilot: fatigue, wx, night. And also, no fuel.

[@apogaeum4313]

...too much, to be honest.

[@andycoy3196]

Oh, this sucks...I live less than a mile from the crash site and remarkably from the outside the plane looked to be in pretty good shape...unfortunate that the crash was not survivable. Monday morning quarterbacking here I know...but it is tough to see how many mistakes this guy made. Here are some thoughts that may help anyone reading this in the future to prevent such a tragedy... 1) My first comment is that KRIV (March AF Base) is joint use and is less than 20 miles to the NW of F70. It has an ILS AND a 24 hour tower. The FBO (MillionAir) is great and has relatively good fuel pricing for SoCal. He was already on with March Approach (134.0) and they could have easily vectored him to the ILS 32. Runway 32 is over 13000 (!) ft long so even if he was high by 1000' he could cut power and glide it in. Choosing to go to MYF (my home airport) 45 miles to the south, with a closing tower (9pm), presumably worse weather, shorter runway and at least 2 controller handoffs, was of course, in hindsight, a bad mistake. Did the guy have an alternate filed? He had no plan of where to go after the missed, which indicates poor flight planning. In this area, the weather is 9/10 worse to the south than the north, so typically an alternate would be back north like March. I would suspect that on takeoff from Concord the weather in French Valley was such that an alternate was required. 2) Both MIRAMAR (for sure) and MARCH (I think) have PAR----precision approach radar---in which you don't need anything in the way of navigation other than a radio. If he was having trouble with his insturments (gps or vloc) which is apparent from both of the poorly executed approaches, the PAR is a great bailout and is available at most military airports. Declaring an emergency early and asking for a PAR at one of these places could have been an option. I've done the practice PAR at Miramar a bunch and it is not only fun, but amazingly accurate. Basically the controller is telling you left/right up down all the way to the runway...Keep this in mind when your electrical system goes and you are stuck above the layer with no navigation....provided you have a backup radio of course. 3) Crash site is less than a mile from the ocean to the west...out of fuel and in IMC in the dark is pretty scary though...I'm just saying that headed to the Ocean instead of trying to put it down in a crowded residential area would maybe have had a different outcome. The area he went down is approximately 500' MSL so the ocean would have given him a little more glide possibly??? Also, the SoCal controller was great. I talk to her all the time and she is ALWAY helpful, courteous and precise. I'm saddened she has this burden of losing a pilot...my sympathies to her as well as the pilot and his family. Yuck, yuck, yuck....headed out to fly approaches tonight to stay current. Be safe and vigilant everyone. 😥

[@AviationNewsTalk]

All great insights. I agree, it appears he didn't have a backup plan and was making it up on the fly as he came out of French Valley on the missed.

[@witblitsfilm]

Vertical impact G-forces. Horrible. Had a guy go down here locally in the NE of England a few months back. Emergency services turned up and he was extricated with only a little help as he was able to climb out mostly by himself. Shaky, but seemingly "OK". Loaded into ambulance and off to hospital for a thorough checkup to make sure he was indeed OK. Died a few hours later from massive internal injuries. Looks can be deceiving and G-forces can be unbelievably traumatic. Also, get-home-itis seems to continue to claim a steady stream of victims who cannot bear to be marginally inconvenienced by stopping over and losing a few hours to Wx or refuelling. 😪

[@180mph9]

Much respect to the last controller at SoCal, too bad some of the earlier controllers couldn’t read between the lines, in my opinion, this was most obviously an emergency situation as soon as he botched the missed approach at French Valley.

[@AviationNewsTalk]

Yes, it's a huge red flag when someone isn't flying the missed approach...it tells you the pilot is performing. Perhaps controllers could have suggested a better alternative airport.

[@nice2care]

5:20 This IFR clearance is ridiculous

[@RobtheAviator]

As a local SoCal pilot, this clearance is normal. There is terrain all over the place.

[@jasonchipkin]

This provides navaid reception and terrain clearance because radio failures are all too common. Most procedures are developed in the case of RF.

[@user-ry4xt3sd3i]

This is heartbreaking. IMO Winds out of the South extended the flight and contributed to the fuel state. The controllers had no heads up of the fuel state until it was too late.

[@gendaminoru3195]

More than that being vectored and told to climb several times for crossing and terrain sucked down a lot of fuel.

[@AviationNewsTalk]

Agreed, multiple climbs in a 210 can burn fuel like crazy, unless the engine is set up with GAMI injectors and you can do a lean of peak climb. But then climb rate is also significantly reduced.

[@edjarrett3164]

This was really sad. So many lessons repeated in GA crashes. Don’t fly night IFR in IMC unless you absolutely have to. Have IFR reserves plus a little extra. Be totally current in instruments, it’s your insurance for that rainy, bad day. Every layer of safety you build, gives you the options and skills to overcome. Make good decisions on the ground first. If it doesn’t look good, don’t fly.

[@larryweitzman5163]

It's significantly better to be on the ground wishing you were in the air than to be in the air wishing you were on the ground.

[@AviationNewsTalk]

So many times these accident happen when pilots feel that they "have to be there." I wonder why he felt he needed to fly that night.

[@bisho1p]

Night IMC isn’t the problem. The problem is that instrument training isn’t mandated. Very few GA pilots in training will chose Part 141-M training from the outset because of having to learn VFR and IFR training simultaneously. IMO this should be mandated. You have way too many IFR GA pilots that have thousands of hours of VFR time, yet have very little instrument time. It’s like people get instrument rated, then go out of their way to avoid having to use it. This leads to incompetence. People become competent in any skill when they use it frequently. Going out of your way to avoid having to use it leads to bad things happening out of sheer inexperience.

[@bisho1p]

An RNAV/GPS approach with a WAAS enabled GPS is effectively an ILS approach. The fact that this pilot was equipped to do so and failed to avail themselves of it says all you need to know. It’s like people that will fly themselves into the ground and refuse to declare an emergency at any stopgap along the way that would have averted the tragedy to begin with. Why is it so hard for people to declare “unable,” “emergency,” and ask for, or if necessary, demand the help they need.

[@edjarrett3164]

@@bisho1p Currency and proficiency in instruments is a personal obligation. However, it should be looked upon as personal insurance. While the cost of a CFI sitting next to you regaining proficiency might be considered costly, the skill level you have to make good on has been improved. Instruments is your bag of tools for a rainy day and you should keep that bag dry and ready to open when needed.

[@darrens.4322]

Excellent production 360° by the channel pilot Max Trescott. This is for sure risk stacking 101. Very sad to hear the voice of the pilot and near resignation though it sounds like he was still trying without power in the worst possible scenario. The female controller, bless her and her future, she worked so hard to get the pilot to a runway (Not sure if that was Miramar or KMYF).

[@georgehodym.d.2844]

Initially MYF and then the last vectors she gave him were probably for NKX (Miramar)

[@chriscusick6890]

​@@georgehodym.d.2844it was the glider port at Torrey Pines.

[@donniecole3472]

50 year pilot 37 years airlines so sad and hard to listen to this.

[@AviationNewsTalk]

I agree, I commented above that just replying to the comments makes me a little sad. This was totally avoid, and hence all the more tragic. 50 years here too.

[@danielreuter2565]

Makes me wonder how long he's been using atc as a crutch to give him vectors or direct clearance due to no longer being a competent instrument pilot and not knowing how to use his gps. I'm guessing he got away with it for a while.

[@snowman100]

Listening to last controller, you could tell she really wanted a successful landing, but... It's sad listening to this. Am just about to start instruments and all I can think of is... Proficiency! Proficiency! Proficiency!

[@AviationNewsTalk]

You have the right mindset! I decided long ago that either I would do IFR well, or not do it at all. I'm sure as I get older, flying IFR will be one of the first things I cut out as I dial back on my flying activities.

[@jimcaufman2328]

74 years old flying a long flight IFR in a single engine airplanes at night As a 76 year old high time ATP I realized years ago that it is much easier to fly a B-777 than a single engine airplane by myself IFR. You can tell he is not mentally sharp and tired by his voice. He lives in the area and has to ask the Airport identifier foy MYF is another sign of confusion. He was hand flying the airplane which is evident by his wrong way turns. If the automation (auto pilot) had been on and coupled to the navigation radio flying the approaches he would have landed and be safely on the ground.

[@180mph9]

Very nice presentation of this accident 👌🏼

[@AviationNewsTalk]

Thank you. Though I do feel a little sad as I'm reading through the comments. The accident was so avoidable...and hence so tragic.

[@robhoneycutt]

Interestingly, this did not sound anything like a 17,000 hr pilot on the radio.

[@larryweitzman5163]

I'm an old fairly high time pilot, but this guy appeared old mentally, meaning he got flustered and lost it at F70 and MYF. Listening to him you could tell he wasn't sharp. I've got a 1,000 hours in a T210M among many high performance singles and twins and to run out of gas is unforgiveable. I am wondering if he even took fuel at CCR. I flew my T210 in the lower mid teens on about 14-15 gph at 62-65% and an IAS of about 150 kts at mid gross weights. That's almost 6 hours until dry. If he had 3.5-4.0 hours of fuel leaving CCR he only needed 2 hours maybe 2+15 to get home. He burned an additional hour plus blowing poorly executed approaches. I would like to know his currency. Sounds a lot like that C340 pilot who couldn't handfly his C340 under stress. And another nice airplane is gone that won't be replaced, It looked liked a known ice P210. It had would looked to be a hot plate as well as boots. Not much difference in the destroyed C340 which is also gone forever. But there seems to be no shortage of dumb, stupid pilots with poor judgment.

[@romoeas]

Allegedly he had 17000 hours and ATP plus numerous other ratings and type ratings. Seems he was very very out of practice/currency/proficiency and/or just not mentally there anymore. Very poor judgement.

[@rangerider51]

I’m one of those dumb pilots but then again I’m not a pilot which is good.

[@gendaminoru3195]

Hypoxia?

[@larryweitzman5163]

@@gendaminoru3195 Most of that flight was done at 9,000 feet and the last hour or so was at 5,000 feet or less, so no hypoxia, if there was a problem with the pressurization system. I also have time in a P210, the system is a no brainer. The pilot was 74 years old and he sounded like an old 74, kind of like the president who is a very old 81. I know lots of people in their 80s that are mentally still quite young. The C340 pilot was at very low altitudes and flew the trip below 12,000 feet. I think he was 62 years old.

[@tropicthndr]

Yep, age and burned out, in weather, at night, but you know what have prevented this, a good check ride instructor would have seen this and said no more your done, time to retire, but again money buys the check ride.

[@tdkeyes1]

If he was in trouble all he needed to do was turn north from French Valley, Perris @ 14 mi, March @ 21 mi and Riverside @ 31 miles. Direct flight with nothing but low hills in the way

[@AviationNewsTalk]

Yes lot of options. He might have also ask March approach where the best weather was nearby.

[@CharlieFoxtrot00]

I parsed a bunch of this last night, but only had the (crummy) March recording and SoCal. I’m really interested in hearing the actual, better quality ATC tapes to fill in the gaps. Either way, it really sounds like the pilot was behind the plane and all the approaches, diversions, and a likely headwind back in the valley doubled his planned flight time, ate up his reserves, and forced the hand of a pilot who was likely fairly fatigued. All this added to the workload and just compounded the errors. The mic clicks heard on SoCal also really interested me. I never heard the CTAF recording prior to this. That had to be him, the alternator hum is a giveaway (you hear it go down and up as his engine changes RPM after he calls out of fuel. What was the timing of those clicks - where was he relative to the runway when he finally tried to hit the lights on CTAF? Really enjoy your very informative podcast, glad I found it!

[@AviationNewsTalk]

Charlie, my recollection is that he did four sets of clicks and the last ones were when he was about 900 or 1000 feet MSL, about the time that he was moving from the right side of the localizer and crossing it to the left side. That seems like a distraction when one is that close to the airport and should be fully focused on flying the ILS needles. The NTSB lists distractions as one of three causes of accidents. Thanks for your kind words about the podcast. You can also find the audio version in any smartphone podcast app. Just search in the app for Aviation News Talk, click Subscribe or Follow, and then you can listen to the show when you're on the go.

[@martinwhite1715]

I wonder what avionics were onboard and if a moving map display like on the GTN750 or similar device would have helped, I learned to fly in the mid 70's so never had the opportunity to use them, but I would imagine it would really help with the siturational awareness in a case like this. Also I would think that the tower at KMYF would have remained open after 9:00 to deal with this emergency? Controllers did a great job and sorry it ended this way.

[@garymiller5624]

Igfuhcdhjj😢 28:18

[@mattj65816]

I wonder how many serious, conscientious, professional pilots do things like call themselves "Centurion Fourteen Hundred." I can't help but be suspicious that small things like that, relatively inconsequential in themselves, might be indicative of larger lapses in judgment. People give hints.

[@Thatguysomeone]

Centurion is the type of plane he was in.

[@mattj65816]

@@Thatguysomeone yes, I know, but the standard way to say "fourteen hundred" would have been "one four zero zero."

[@JW-gb6hq]

The number part I would agree with but Centurion identifies the type of aircraft so others are aware of performance. Just using the generic of Cessna is less appropriate. Sad one here it seems as he was in over his head and behind the airplane.

[@flyluv737]

I’ve often thought the same thing when I hear the bizjet guys just say the last two vanity numbers like when a Citation n123AB is just reback as “Alpha Bravo”

[@mattj65816]

@@JW-gb6hqyes, the Centurion part is absolutely correct--I hate it when people leave that out and I have to guess at how fast they are, how wide their pattern is, etc. I'm speaking specifically of the "fourteen hundred" part.

[@scottstp7084]

Palomar airport (Kcrq) was halfway to Montgomery from French Valley. Also, it was a 5 minute drive from the pilot’s home, so one has to think he was familiar. The ILS has been out of service for so long I’ve lost track (over 6 mo?). They’ve been screwing around moving dirt on the east end of the field forever. It’s pathetic that they can’t get the approach back up in a reasonable timeframe. That 210 driver possibly could have gotten into CRQ since he would have been a little less stressed because he might have landed with a half hour’s fuel. I hope the slackers who call the shots with the construction schedules think for a moment that their actions are related to the loss of life. Enough said.

[@hamishkebb3550]

Very good report Max ATC is there to help !! Declare an emergency early The controller would have waited at Montgomery to assist landing. if he advised "on emergency fuel ' I need to get land now he could have used any airport Military field too ATC will know where you have the best chance of landing.ASK Better on the ground embarrassed but alive. As you Age you kneed to be more conservative , not push to hard , allow more margin. I always aim to have 1 Hr. reserve fuel

[@AviationNewsTalk]

Thank you Hamish. Yes there were a number of options, if only the pilot had let ATC know sooner. I hadn't thought of asking the controller to stay longer...interesting point. Sadly he let his margin get to zero.

[@marlinweekley51]

How do you own and fly a p210 without a coupled gps - theyve been putting 430 at least in plane for what 20 year? Certainly a p210 has an auto pilot. Whats going on ???

[@AviationNewsTalk]

All good questions. Sometimes I can find out how a plane was equipped by finding old For Sale postings. I couldn't find any for this plane.

[@DavidT-u8b]

Max, I believe he bought the P210 new in 1979. I met him around that time. He also had a Citation. He was also a FO for United Airlines at the time. I never figured out whether he was a physicist moonlighting as an airline pilot, or vice versa.@@AviationNewsTalk

[@jasonchipkin]

If he was based at F70 and attempted the RNAV 18, why did he say he couldn't do the RNAV 24 at CRQ? If he "only had vor" equipment then he couldn't have intercepted the RNAV 18 at F70. Otherwise, it must have failed during the attempt at F70.

[@gendaminoru3195]

I wonder if he was hypoxic. Hard to explain this combination of issues all at once. French Valley wasn't even an approach

[@AviationNewsTalk]

He was at 9 or 10,000 feet most of the way. Being at that altitude for 3 hours would definitely slow my reactions. The plane was pressurized...but no way to know if he used it.

[@gendaminoru3195]

@@AviationNewsTalk Indeed the P210 has the lowest pressurization ratio in the business, along with the Skymaster - same basic fuse/cross section. That was the biggest drawback on the O&N turbine conversion. If memory serves it's only 4.3

[@bills6093]

He should have seen MYF. It is a well lit runway in the middle of a large dark space. It should have been obvious. Yet he does not see it when he flies by?

[@bills6093]

ATC CTL. WHEN ATCT CLSD MIRL RY 10L/28R OPER CONTINUOUSLY.

[@larryweitzman5163]

@@gendaminoru3195 PSI on a 79 P210 is 3.35 psi

[@moleisrich1]

Hey man I was flight instructor of the year (east coast) back in the day. I actually got second by a hot shot show off who used to literally buzz the field. Once a month he would show up at our airport in a light twin….buzz the field then pull straight up. WhT an ass. And he won. I never understood how reps of the faa , who knew he was doing dangerous things actually was rewarded. I know because he was warned multiple times by multiple people. They ended up choosing him. I was runner up. I stopped flying shortly after. It was so hard to make any money, no one was hiring. So I quietly slipped out the back door. Made a lot of money in real estate. More than an airline pilot-But never that happy. I mean I love my beach house and my own estate- but just knowing what if…………..peace.

[@MiguelAlejandro1969]

The mere fact of flying the plane with its maximum fuel range makes me doubt, I will still arrive. Being a pilot for so many years and not contemplating that due to bad weather I might have to wait or take alternate airports with enough fuel is strange. Complacency that things always turned out well and today would be the same? I am very sorry for the loss of such an experienced pilot and that he fell due to low fuel.

[@AviationNewsTalk]

I was really surprised when I first heard the audio and realized that he ran out of gas. It stunned me that someone flying a plane that capable could do that.

[@davidwhite8633]

@@AviationNewsTalkYes, and there’s a simple thing to do to avoid that. If there’s any doubt about sufficient fuel remaining just reduce A/S to max range A/S or even something nearer to it . Fuel consumption is considerably reduced--just inform ATC of your new A/S --after all, who’s in a hurry to get to their grave ?

[@SMcda]

yeh, dude in way over his head. his radio work sounds confident but obviously some issues

[@jackbrainassociates8806]

My buddy and I heard this guy coming into CCR Monday night. We we’re coming back from KSAC to KHWD and Centurion 1400 was attempting to land at KCCR. It was very clear that night and we could see CCR at least 20 miles out. The controller was giving him vectors and pointing out the airport he couldn’t have been more than a mile away and he still couldn’t find the airport in VFR conditions. It was so obvious he was not proficient. It’s not at all surprising he couldn’t shoot an approach. I’m not trying to be mean but he had no business flying an airplane with his current skill set. It’s very sad and I feel very bad for the people he has left behind.

[@AviationNewsTalk]

Thanks for sharing that. So that would have been his next to last flight. There have been a few times over the years where I've looked at a next-to-last flight and spotted problems that were repeated on the final fatal flight. So sorry to hear that he was having trouble even in VFR conditions.

[@glasshalffull2930]

I flew with my father since I was about five and then I went on to get my license. When he was younger, he was one of the best pilots i knew, but as he got into his 60s I could see his skills start to diminish. By your description of his previous flight, I’m wondering if slowly diminishing skills as he aged might have been a major problem.

[@libertine5606]

If he knew that Palomar didn't have a ILS he would have been better to go to John Wayne. He was way behind the plane all the way. It would have been interesting to see what his day was like. This is one of the dangers of using planes for work it could be hard to shift gears into being a professional pilot.

[@rickh4310]

Very sad, but poor judgment all around. Night, single engine, single pilot IFR in actual IMC is not a good mix to begin with. Add bad fuel management leading to a low or no fuel situation is a recipe that doesn’t end well.

[@AviationNewsTalk]

Yes, nearly all of the major risk factors were present on this flight. Very sobering.

[@rn2811]

17,000 hours along with a type rating?? 🤨. Stupidity and complacency will get you every time.

[@AviationNewsTalk]

Yes, they announced yesterday that the owner was the pilot. And he had many type ratings.

[@andor8635]

Why didn't he stop for more fuel earlier ? There are several airports to put some fuel in the plane. I don't see why these pilots run out of fuel. There is no reason for it. None. at all.

[@AviationNewsTalk]

I'm guessing he figured he'd be able to land at French Valley. It doesn't sound like he had a plan B, as he was asking what airports had an ILS. We always need a plan B when we fly, and sometimes a Plan C as well!

[@orthopraxis235]

They are allowed to still be pilots because the GA training never filtered out their poor decision making processes. Because they have money, they can get into metal machines that rely on defying gravity and travel at speeds in excess of 200 knots. Because they can pay for the aircraft, fuel and insurance, they get a pass on not being able to admit when they won't "get there." These are not master pilots that make these decisions, they are masters in some other area of life that just happen to be pilots on the side.

[@utah20gflyer76]

Classic risk stacking scenario. We all take some risk every time we fly but it’s important to consider that additional risk factors may increase risk exponentially rather than in a linear manner. Here we had the basic risk of flying, at night, in weather, limited approaches available because of low clouds, maximum range so few options if things don’t work out well. Add in fatigue and maybe a lack of proficiency or equipment issues and this flight looks like a death wish. He should have flown the next morning with a fuel stop, he’d almost certainly still be alive. None of us need to be somewhere so badly we need to take these kind of risks.

[@CharlieFoxtrot00]

Everything south of the San Gabriels and San Bernardino’s was awful that night. The forecasts were marginal at best, but observations periodically went lower. However, he was (over?)confident enough to launch into that, given his experience. I’m thinking more and more that whatever issues he was having with RNAV (or apparently green needles as well) blew his plan apart so badly that it ran him out of viable alternatives. The LPV minimums at F70 are 250’ AGL, not much worse than the ILS at MYF. But the weather in San Diego was still worse as it began to improve in the French Valley and Inland Empire around the time of his first approach. His perception of some sort of nav error must have been pretty strong to preclude him from just shooting the RNAV at F70 again. That’s backed up by the way the approach and missed were poorly executed. But bad RNAV doesn’t explain the bad green-needle approach at MYF, unless the whole nav system (or his ability to use/interpret it) was failing.

[@AviationNewsTalk]

Agreed on all. I keep wondering why he felt he had to complete the flight on that night, rather than wait a day.

[@AviationNewsTalk]

I agree, shooting the RNAV again at F70 could have been a better choice. But he clearly didn't want to do it again, and he clearly didn't want to use GPS for his second approach. I wonder how well he knew his GPS system.

[@kennyc388]

A long 1/2 hour flight from northern California?? What in h ell are you talking about ?

[@AviationNewsTalk]

Oh boy, did I misspeak and miss a word? It was 4 hours total.

[@danmccarthy2213]

man this really sucked, I fly into san diego all the time and all the airports have a domino effect, oceanside, then chula vista (brown) and lastly Santee (ksee) and Ramona (KRMN), if Santee and Romana start showing MVFR your only hope is just head east, cross the mountains and land in Brawley, Imperial, El Centro, Or Borrego, thats my back up plan, it sucks but its the only option in this situation, and this wed night, weather was unpredictable and sucked, I know because I was going to fly the next day..if maynot have even been possible if thunderstorms lingererd over the mountains...

[@AviationNewsTalk]

Thanks for the tips on flying in your area. Yes, a common bail out option in Northern California is also to head east, toward the Central Valley.

[@berndfloitgraf595]

no charts of the flightpath… no printed ATC communications… ATC audio often poor or unreadable! A lot of things to improve in your video! But don’t give up! 😢

[@MrZeissOne]

So sad. This obviously did not need to happen. I think it underlines the old truism that the most at risk are the very low time pilots and the very high time pilots. My respects to this pilot's family.

[@svenf1]

I think oxygen could have been a factor here as the performance is in stark contrast to his experience.

[@orthopraxis235]

Training is sub par. Pilots should be trained to declare their situation properly to the ATC, we see massive evidence that they don't do that in a timely fashion. Had he declare low fuel or a fuel emergency ATC would have prioritized his situation properly.

[@Chance-ry1hq]

This guy was beyond help. There was a lot confusion going on in that cockpit. I wonder if there was a carbon monoxide problem.

[@Caninedriver]

IF the owner, with ALL his experience, was the pilot, one wonders about his mental health posture at the time of the incident.

[@AviationNewsTalk]

They announced yesterday that the owner was the pilot. I do wonder about his fitness for flight, since there were so many mistakes.

[@bruceabrahamsen221]

Lots of bad decisions. Should have waited till the next day and better weather.

[@robertbandusky9565]

CRQ doesn’t have an ILS?👨‍✈️

[@CHARLIET93]

It does it’s been out for almost 10 days now.

[@user-ry4xt3sd3i]

@@CHARLIET93 it’s been out for months. 10 days was the most recent continuation of the NOTAM issuance.

[@iridiumcaptain]

My wife pokes fun at me (airline pilot) for coming from a busy 4-day trip having flown dozens of hours, just to hop onto my desktop simulator and practice more flying. I practice GA and airline ops. I practice flying single-pilot IFR in hard IMC to minimums using analogue instruments and I practice utilizing modern avionics and auto-flight systems. But even though she thinks its funny, she greatly appreciates how much time and effort I put into staying knowledgeable and proficient. I take my job, and my career as a pilot, extremely seriously. I love flying, and I always want to work to keep my skills up while fighting complacency. It doesn't matter if you are a 200hr private pilot or a 30,000hr ATP, we can all make mistakes, we are all susceptible to complacency, and we must always strive to do better and learn more. Stay safe, fellow aviators.

[@orthopraxis235]

Tennis players don't stop practicing when they win a grand slam, unless they retire at that moment. why do pilots stop training in simulators just because they have accumulated so many hours of flight. What you said you do is a credit to you, and should be on the minds of each and every pilot. You have to, actually, love to practice to become a master and stay a master at anything in life. Why do you think airline pilots have such good , frequent and recurring training? because mistakes in an airliner cost billions of dollars to the company over time, quantifying the lawsuits that are brought when airline pilots do stupid things. GA has probably the worst training of any occupation, endeavor, hobby when factored in the potential life ending results of poor decision making. What is GA training such a s*** show? Is is only there for a money grab? Why are most instructors in their early 20s, when they couldn't possibly have enough experience to be both an experience pilot and an experienced coach? Why do people pay money to be taught by these kids? Is this the best GA can do?

[@ShaunHensley]

It’s scandalous that aviation can’t count on ILS being available at ILS fields, given that decisions are made miles out with that in mind

[@marlinweekley51]

37 gal in the climb? Really? Ive own a M model IO-520 in climb at 500’/min i burns no more than 18, as i climb i keep leaning. Also run lop at altitude(60% power) and burn 11-13. What engine would have been in this plane to burn that much fuel? I know some had special turbine conversions but this plane looks stock and would’ve had the same engine as mine. He was cleared to 7000 so at most he would a burned at 500’/min (cruise climb) = 14-15 minutes=18/4=4.5gal. If he had full fuel at take off he would a had fuel for approx 5 hrs to empty RICH of peak and close to 7.5hrs LOP . Tanks weren’t full when he took off my bet. Sad , may he rip. Condolences to friends and family. 🙁

[@AviationNewsTalk]

There's the key, you're leaning in the climb, so 18 gph makes sense. But what's your fuel flow as you're taking off and don't lean in climb? One reason he might not have had full tanks is that it takes a long time to squeeze those last few gallons into the tanks of a 210. If a pilot doesn't tell the fueler to be patient, they won't get full tanks.

[@bluetickfreddy101]

Real IFR Night Low fuel No Bueno 😂

[@RaceMentally]

17k hours??? Hmmm, C02, fatigue, drugs or?…. Sounded like an amateur.

[@aaronbrown6266]

CO2 in high enough concentrations could possibly kill you, however CO is the more likely culprit. Carbon Di oxide (CO2) = 2 oxygen molecules. Carbon Mon oxide (CO) = one oxygen molecule.

[@RaceMentally]

@@aaronbrown6266 I’m just saying something wasn’t right. He wasn’t acting like a 17k pilot at all. Think about it there was something else going on.

[@jimcaufman2328]

age and slowing down.@@aaronbrown6266

[@jimmyfall9302]

Heartbreaking to listen to. He almost had no chance.

[@utah20gflyer76]

Like most accidents there was a series of mistakes that preceded the tragedy. He may not have had a chance at the very end but he had lots of chances when he walked up to the plane before the flight.

[@idekav.]

for the “what chance do i have as a low time pilot” question, throw that bullshit ideology to the curb, in terms of steps to get to the airlines, accolades and steps up toward the ATP rating must be obtained, this does not mean one having more ratings/certs is any of a better pilot, i can name a couple of great jet pilots who are shit in GA flying compared to a newly minted private pilot, PROFICIENCY is the game, not ratings.

[@futureshock7425]

Jesus h christ😢.

[@rolacook222]

Sorry, I disagree! Practice is fine, but if you don’t have personal standards, procedures, discipline & knowing your limits, while having cfi’s check you out a couple of times a year to make sure you’re not developing bad habits to stay proficient you may well be “practicing” the wrong things & thinking the wrong way?!

[@AviationNewsTalk]

What's the disagreement? I agree with everything you said. - Max

[@edwardallen7477]

Poor skills period. He was begging for a serious problem. He put himself in this position. He obviously wanted to go into FRENCH VALLEY. Why didn’t he turn and go to Ontario? I’m sure there the ILS was working just fine and he would’ve had plenty of fuel.