DEATH BY FLIGHT INSTRUCTOR - Advice to Students, Pilots, and Instructors

[@Aviation101]

I'm BLOWN AWAY by the amazing feedback and engagement on this. Over 1,000 comments. I've spent almost the entire morning replying to as many as I can. I wish I could get to all of them. This is an incredibly important conversation in general aviation, and I deeply appreciate all of you contributing to this conversation. Let's keep it going and spread this message to as many aviators across the world as we can. Thank you! 🙌🏼 -Josh

[@ModelA]

This is right on point. You're tickling the feet of a monster. I hope people listen to your words carefully and don't jump to conclusions.

[@darrylwalker1867]

First of your videos that I have seen. Won‘t be the last. Very nicely done.

[@WolfPilot]

Clear your calendar Josh. I nominate this as video of the year. I am only halfway through the comments and it is starling to see how many other students have encountered these defective attitudes and at such a degree.

[@bruschi8148]

Thanks Josh! You're an awesome asset to the aviation industry

[@cmfrancis1]

I've had two instructors. One I didn't stay with that long and my current instructor. I'm happy to report the current instructor is great at his job as well as being an awesome human. I only hope I can be as good someday. Thanks for your videos Josh. You and others like you inspired me to take the leap. Been a tough journey but it's changed my life and career path. Kudos to all of you!

[@joshuadelacerda7380]

That guy had no business being a CFI, he's an embarrasment to all pilots and people in aviation. Great debrief Josh.

[@mothmagic1]

Oh how I agree. The pre-flight takes as long as it takes and it doesn't make any sense to rush a student when they are just getting the hang of doing something which is still new to them.

[@boossersgarage3239]

ur right, everything I heard leads to the fact that the CFI was an asshole, full-time.

[@silasmarner7586]

It was one thing for him to basically die in about 50 pieces even before the first piece hit the ground (as it seems like what happened here) - Dragging along a well-meaning student is murder.

[@Skank_and_Gutterboy]

Yep that was bad. And good luck disputing it after posting it on social media, WTF?!

[@technophant]

Sounds like toxic narcissism. I think he wanted to watch the students struggle with the storm.

[@thx2434]

42 years and 12,000 hours later I still remember my first flight instructor’s words. They’re like parents.

[@keno7800]

+1 . 14000 hours and 45 years here, agree 100%.

[@jimmyfall9302]

Parents that care only about themselves and their careers.

[@joemama069]

@@jimmyfall9302 so regular parents

[@221b-l3t]

​@@joemama069 No that's not normal and can cause deep lasting damage, speaking from personal experience. If you feel this way you should definetly talk to a therapist. And I don't mean that in an insulting way, I myself had an emotionally abusive parent, which led to depression, ptsd and social anxiety, requiring therapy and medication. I shudder to think where I'd be at if I had never gotten any help. The thing is the child often doesn't realise it because to them, that's just how things are and the parent(s) will of course normalise this and if the child speaks up, punishment often follows. Wasn't until I was in my teens that I realised this behaviour is not normal, not acceptable and disgusting and that I should probably talk to someone. Which took another 20 years to muster the courage to do. I did go to a psychiatrist to talk about the symptoms but I had been to manipulated and made to feel ashamed to even mention it, so the ptsd went undiagnosed until recently (early 30s) and I have just begun dealing with it (in a healthy way instead of turning to drink or drugs to feel normal). So if you truly believe what you said I strongly advise you to talk to someone, a professional (and don't tell the parents). I know it's hard. But things can get better and the sooner you try the higher your chances are to end up as undamaged as possible.

[@keno7800]

Very sad. :( @@jimmyfall9302

[@fernandorosales2418]

My best instructor ever was an 83 year old aerobatics instructor teaching me in a decathlon. He was a nuclear physicist and didn't need the money. Dude didn't even have a log book. He didn't care about logging time. He just loved to fly and to teach. Learned so much from that guy. I'm sure he's gone now. Wherever you are, thanks Mason. I'm still passing on the lessons I learned from you and you made my early days of flying memorable.

[@bwnco]

Yes. !!!!! Dude I used to fly with had only flew tail draggers.. loved him ..flew all over the mountains in an underpowered plane so he taught you how to fly like a glider pilot I just I can't specify how good he was as a teacher.... If I could fly and find an instructor like that I would get my privates

[@HillCountryCodger]

These are the CFIs prospective students should seek out, not an "hour builder" like Timothy McKellar Jr.

[@dreamkrusherjay2869]

@@bwnco And I'm sure you know, but for any who do not, Sully, who captained the "Miracle on the Hudson" flight, started his aviation career as a glider pilot, and said it was those skills that allowed him to perfectly ditch that airliner on a river and save everyone on board. I would wager that Mr. Mason above and probably your tail dragger specialist might have had a military background -- that seems to be what I see from all of these stories where we had men like this that just truly loved to fly. There are great instructors everywhere, and I hope you do motivate yourself to get your PPL. It's liberating in a way few things are.

[@bwnco]

@@dreamkrusherjay2869 thank you.!!. I met a glider pilot here where I live and he said and I quote... I will never fly with anyone unless they have their glider rating... Sadly it's hard to find someone that flies and is open to what my old instructor and friend were like they were down to earth the people I've met since in are a bunch of Rich snobs.. not saying in any way that's what the majority are so don't bash me folks.. Bud like golfers a lot of the pilots are an arrogant breed

[@dreamkrusherjay2869]

@bwnco You aren't wrong at all. There are unfortunately many (and not just in aviation) that feel they are better than everyone around. It certainly doesn't help that aviation has truly become a rich person's playground in this day and age, unless you started flying in the military or several years ago now to get enough hours in the air. I refuse to get on any commercial aircraft at this point, with how the industry has devolved since the pandemic -- and it truly sucks as due to my health from my father's exposure and murder from Agent Orange in Vietnam, and where it left my health since birth, I can no longer afford to train further, and certainly can't afford a private aircraft either. (None of my health issues keeps me from my medical certificate, only my finances keep me from the air now, and it kills me as I love to fly.) The powers-that-be have truly destroyed the aviation industry, and having worked at KDTW Detroit Metro for a long time, I saw it first hand as they did it. :( Sorry to write you a novel in response. I hope you find a way to get yourself in the air long-term, Sir! (EDIT: Grammar Only.)

[@catzel1ps452]

The unfortunate irony is that kid would have ended up being a way better pilot than the instructor. He displayed more character and humility than that joke of a cfi probably did in his entire life.

[@levi1922]

that’s my thought also. the student showed discipline and humility, both qualities I value in people i’m trusting with my life if they were my pilot.

[@Toro_Da_Corsa]

Why were these kids flying at night

[@CowboyGarage]

@@Toro_Da_Corsa night cross country is part of the training.

[@BrianSiskind]

This is a perfect example of how to "use your platform" for the common good. Not exploitative, anchored in universal truths, and done with reverence. Thanks Josh.

[@cbesthelper404]

Absolutely! And everything that he said holds true for the kind of INDIVIDUAL we can strive to be.

[@alk672]

You can certainly call restating empty platitudes and common wisdom whatever you like, but I just call what it is - restating the obvious, making money. I assume the video is monetized.

[@cbesthelper404]

@@alk672 Platitudes or not - and I do not think that they are - sometimes "restating the obvious" and stating it again and again until someone listens is the right and most effective thing to do. Many an issue has gotten resolved only after someone persistently raised their voice to "the obvious". "Common wisdom", as you put it, and applying it, are two COMPLETELY different things. Wisdom has little value unless we put it to use. But more importantly, I wonder what is behind your motive to take the time and energy to undermine the spirit of the discussion here. Why was that so important for you to do, and why be so eager to do it?

[@alk672]

@@cbesthelper404 because this is not a discussion. A discussion suggests multiple viewpoints. What other viewpoints can there be? Yes, CFIs should be good CFIs and not insult or kill their students. How is this useful other than KZbin revenue?

[@cbesthelper404]

@@alk672 Scores of viewpoints if you scroll through the comments.

[@billcook4768]

Whenever I hear about bad flight instructors, I like to tell the story of my one and only lesson. Soon after we were in the air, the plane caught on fire. Smoke, flames, oil covering the windshield, yeah, it was bad. Not only did the instructor get us back on the ground safely, he continued teaching a lesson the whole time. His attitude was one of “what better time to demonstrate what to do in an emergency.” He was probably also thinking it a good way to keep my mind occupied instead of thinking OH MY GOD THE PLANE IS ON FIRE. For every bad instructor out there, I bet there are many great ones. And to them I say Thank You.

[@kentd4762]

"Arrogant, immature and disrespectful...": deadly attitudes in the aviation world. Thank you, Josh, for saying what needed to be said about this oh-so-preventable fatal accident. As a 40+ year pilot and former CFI myself, if you (CFI) don't like to instruct or despise your students, get out of instructing and build your hours some other way (but don't kill those people, either).

[@cbesthelper404]

"Arrogant, immature and disrespectful...": deadly attitudes ANYWHERE!

[@darrinscarpitto5673]

I'm not a pilot, but this needs to be said not just in this industry but many others. No matter the profession, a mentor must check his attitude and behavior at the door. The student doesn't need arrogance.

[@whatisthis839]

It's really everything that falls under "treating your job with respect". As you said, there's a severe lack of that in many fields. A blase attitude to all sorts of things in becoming all to normal.

[@bernz0ne]

Complacency kills

[@oldrango883]

Ego is bullshit

[@sarahalbers5555]

Thank you for your insightful comment.

[@Steve-mu4oy]

My brother was a CFI. I was his first student. I was so impressed by his professionalism and ability to teach. He had found his calling and he love it. Sadly he has passed and I miss him much . Good job David!

[@dreamkrusherjay2869]

My condolences for your loss. May he rest in peace.

[@sma1616]

do you still fly?

[@georgewashington2930]

Heh! My brother’s name is David too. He wanted to fly for the Air Force, but found out that his average high school grades weren’t going to make the cut - he had spent too much time socializing and doing sports. I would have loved to see him fulfill such a dream. Instead, he’s been driving for UPS for well over 30 years now. He earned a special patch because he’s never been in an accident for all that time - he’s been an excellent driver. I bet he would have made an excellent pilot too.

[@PrivateCitizen7]

Josh, when I was 16, I went up with an instructor who was just terrible. I didn’t touch flight controls again until I was 46. Your videos were a big part of what inspired me to get back into aviation and now I’m so close to my check ride, I can see it! What a huge difference a good flight instructor makes! I thank you and my instructors I’ve had on this renewed journey for being professional and excellent.

[@ohnoZomBri]

I’m sorry about your first experience, but congratulations on getting back to flying

[@williamh3823]

I too at 18 with 7hrs in 1975..instructor was a novice and would only explain when asked but wouldn't flight demonstrate..always wondered what coulda Spent 36yrs with airlines...below wing

[@PanduPoluan]

WELL SAID. I remember that incident where a student pilot's airplane lost the right main wheel. The ATC, her instructor, and another instructor, no one went macho or belittling or condescending. They all together gently pushed her out of her comfort zone and guided her to a very good landing -- well, as good as can be with a plane that has lost a wheel. She was flying solo, close to panicking, but everyone worked together to instill confidence and calmness in her, and she survived the ordeal stronger and more passionate. That is the kind of stories I want to hear from general aviation education.

[@Southboundpachyderm]

This is unfortunately (and your example helps prove this) partially due to the way men/boys are socialized and the way our fathers correct our mistakes being so wrapped up in generations of toxic ideals of what men are supposed to be. Boys are taught from a very young age that you treat girls nicer because they're not as "tough" as you, and then it's compounded by tons of cultural things and sports and media that convince boys that you're always competing with other men and that violence/being an asshole are the ways you solve it "because they can take it if they're not a pussy". I'm not saying they should have treated the girl like shit. I'm saying we need to evaluate why men have such a hard time communicating with other men in any other way outside of "youre my buddy on one side of the spectrum or you're the guy I wanna fight" and with women "I want to fuck you or oppositely treat you like my daughter" and how we can better socialize young boys and girls to generally just treat eachother better and learn to be able to see things from a genuine empathetic perspective instead of a "tough love" approach. Teaching cannot be a tough love thing. It has to be done with the utmost empathy and respect for the students learning process. Teachers are supposed to give us confidence, not tear our mistakes down and make that the focus of our egos. Boys aren't naturally like this either. This is culturally enforced learned behavior, and it makes a lot of us into dickheads who think they need to prove themselves to every other person they meet.

[@subsoar5734]

that’s Maggie. her CFI was a boss. she went on and passed her checkride and i think is working on her commercial last i heard.

[@PanduPoluan]

@@subsoar5734 Yeah, found the ATC recording again thanks to VAS.

[@breytac]

The tower and the CFI were amazing in that video. You could hear the pilot panicking at the start but at the end of the video, she landed that plane like a pro..

[@SteveSwags]

That was an incredible story. She, the instructors, and the tower were amazing in helping her safely get that plane on the ground.

[@DC-nc6vt]

I had one instructor in my early training that seemed pre-occupied with personal issues and responded to my questions with an attitude. After our third flight, I took him aside and let him know who was in charge and what my expectations were. I also reminded him of how many good and willing CFIs are eager for new Students and how powerful word of mouth is in any business. No problems after that. Don’t ever be afraid to change Instructors if it isn’t working. Thanks Josh!

[@wilsonle61]

I had an instructor (I was using for my BFR) who screamed me around the pattern. I landed walked away and found another instructor. I pay for knowledge transfer and intructorial temperament, not an inflight beating!

[@rayjr.2106]

Reason you are still alive today!

[@MajorCaliber]

​@@wilsonle61 I'll bet he wasn't "screaming" baseball scores or heavy-metal lyrics. I'll bet he was a switched-on ex-military pilot who was trying to snap you out of some bad piloting, and fill those gaps in your practice with short, sharp, *memorable remedies.* The BFR exists because a private pilot can develop a LOT of bad habits during 2 years of casual UNsupervised flying. Military instructors don't raise their voice at students because they're "big meanies on a power trip", but because being yelled at ABOUT a neuro-motor skill, WHILE performing that skill, actually burns permanent engram-memories into your brain, verbatim recipes for flight safety more powerful than your ego... and much, much later, in *dire moments* of the type that occur in flying machines, when you are FROZEN stiff with fear, and your normally facile mind is vapor-locked and completely out of what-next ideas, and you're just about to lose control of your bowels, THEN arises in your mind's ear, the forgotten voice of Instructor Shout, hammering you with the 1-2-3 plan that snaps you back into action and saves the plane! You need the "inflight beating". Every SAFE pilot does. Should you seek out the CFI that tells you what you WANT to hear, and just signs you off, or the CFI that tells you what you NEED to hear, and makes you keep going around until the yelling turns into a well-deserved "NOW you got it"...? Which one do you think *your passengers* deserve?

[@jansquillace6453]

@@MajorCaliber I couldn't disagree more with this. NO PILOT or flight student needs to be screamed at or yelled at. This does not make safer pilots, it makes fearful pilots who are afraid of making a small transgression. If you are the kind of learner that "enjoys" being screamed at, more power to you. If you would like to be treated with respect, change flight instructors IMMEDIATELY!

[@hugoglenn9741]

If you are in the air and not qualified you a definitely not “in charge” by FAA regulations. You can resume being in charge after you are on the ground and have been fully debriefed

[@jamespitt5677]

I made a tough decision to replace my instructor the day after I learned about the tragedy you referenced. You really MUST learn from someone you're confident in and who is a good fit. This is a fantastic commentary on this heinous even in aviation history and on the system that allowed it. It's a very random process, in many ways. God bless you for your candor and boldness. Well done. This isn't the last we've heard about this horrible event.

[@jbreezy101]

I’d love to hear this more in depth. Going to subscribe

[@B_Estes_Undegöetz]

What made you think you needed to replace your instructor?

[@HuertaMelanie]

I also replaced my instructor, they were passive aggressive with teaching and dismissive on a relationship level watching this video made me so glad about my decision. Don’t get me wrong there’s still professionalism in the whole learning process but you should preferably choose an instructor who you can connect with on a humanity level :) going back to student flight vlogging soon

[@quackgarage9551]

That's it. Never be afraid of replacing your instructor. You're paying good money to learn well and with someone that you can feel comfortable and confident enough flying with, and of course, someone that actually knows how to teach others. Flying is no ordinary business, don't just go with anyone. Make it loud and clear that you won't fly with instructor X or Y and why, the other instructors and the school should know this. Call out unprofessional behavior when you see it. ALWAYS. During my PPL days, all the CFI's there were amazing dudes, but one guy in particular always seemed weird and I never hit it off with him. The day that I was scheduled to fly with him I started to feel the weirdness already in the briefing room. Once I reached the plane, got my gear out of it and told everyone there how unprofessional and weird he was. His mannerisms never gave me confidence, he always gave off weird vibes and even the other CFI's told me that this dude was a bit of a dweeb, but somehow was still there. He didn't last long there after this, probably working at some regional airline as a FO nowadays, no freaking idea, but if we ever cross paths again I wouldn't hesitate to say that directly to his face. Fuck these weirdos and all the childish, unprofessional, passive-aggressive and bitch-slapping CFI's/pilots who are a total disgrace not only to aviation, but to humanity as a whole.

[@absurdengineering]

@@B_Estes_UndegöetzI guess seeing some of the same behavior that was on display by the late instructor here.

[@kingofcastlechaos]

Watching the CFI's behavior made me physically ill. Thank you for the message- well said.

[@jannepeltonen2036]

Josh - if this was a speech delivered at a general aviation conference, I'd be starting a standing ovation for you right now. I agree wholeheartedly with everything you say here, and the clarity & passion with which you delivered it was phenomenal. Keep up the good work, and clear skies to you!

[@robsengahay5614]

How much better is this for being a speech on KZbin rather than a modest audience at a conference. A quarter of a million views in just 5 days and over 1800 comments.

[@lisaw150]

I don't fly, but I'm a motorcyclist and I'm fascinated and shocked by how well this applies to motorcycle instructors too. There's much to learn from the aviation mindset.

[@terraplane1116]

Heartily seconded. Having the self-control not to punch out my first bike instructor is one of my proudest accomplishments.

[@toms6841]

I have hundreds of hours in small aircraft functioning as primary observer and navigator in conducting wildlife surveys over a 45 year period; now retired. To your comment, just last year I pursued and received my motorcycle endorsement after a required 5 hour online training/testing, a two-day hands on training and testing, as well as a previous years on the road riding self training/experience. I couldn't afford to pursue a private pilot license, but for some reason, motorcycle riding/training appealed to me. Short of flying, motorcycling provides a freeing, uplifting experience beyond what other forms of ground transportation do, in my opinion. It also brings a higher, inherent degree of danger to which you must be skilled and experienced after receiving the best possible, certified training. Research to find the best available in your area, pursue advanced training, and then practice, practice, practice.

[@lisaw150]

@@toms6841 I totally agree with your view of motorcycling. Interestingly, motorcycle legend Giacomo Agostini for example has a pilot licence too and when asked about an alternative career, he says he would have wanted to be a pilot. Thankfully I was able to obtain my motorcycle licence a few years ago and I actually have an ex-professional rider in the family (first responder) who provided additional training. Unfortunately not every new rider has that and especially the younger ones (you can start on 125cc at 16 where I live) may not even be aware that they have to compensate for the often inadequate and dangerous training they received from their instructors.

[@lrmbvv]

the Wright Brothers, were 2 wheel people before the made their airplane.

[@fishhuntadventure]

It’s not just motorcycling. I took “ground school” when I was ~17 but didn’t go further. Wished I had. Anyway, about the time I started realizing / becoming aware that I was getting a lot of information in school but not a lot of understanding (4th grade, 10yo) I started thinking about what I didn’t know about stuff when I was getting the basic information at school. I didn’t realize this was “weird” but I even pondered how different things were related and their history- everything from etymology to sciences and social studies and after school would go to the public library and study what the in-school texts were leaving out. I developed my own philosophy of learning; I didn’t fully grasp that essentially nobody else did this. I just wanted to know things like ‘why’ a diagonal member of a bridge was stronger, not just learn by rote/recitation that it was stronger to give one example. While I didn’t pursue a PPL, the thought processes and principles were ancillarially informative to how I approached everything- including motorcycling. And motorcycling informed my driving a car. Whether aviation or motorcycling, it’s very easy to see how looking ahead of the vehicles in front of you to anticipate what evasive maneuvers might be required, always leaving yourself a ‘second’ out / backup plan, or in flying to constantly be mindful of what could go wrong, cognitively apply oneself to having spatial awareness, and constantly updating the current situation and comparing it to what you’ve planned pretty much buys you time should an emergency transpire. Now nearing 60yo I’ve been employing those same principles to business, fabrication, productivity, and management. Flying, motorcycling, and relational negotiating all have ‘cross-genre’ applications to real life situations. But as a society ‘we’ do not teach how, why, philosophy, and logic. We teach information… But as you noted, there are a plethora of portable skills obtained in structured disciplines like flying, engineering, motorcycling, and actuarial statistics. And as with flying where to often the goal is “a license” while barely meeting the threshold of competency, the sloppy information-based education we have doesn’t teach students to inquisitively think or understand so people - when faced with the unexpected or an emergency - do not have the neural pathways and/or cognitive habits to think past the immediate elements of a crises and achieve a desirable outcome.

[@gozur7374]

Great video. Right on point. I am a retired military pilot, current airline captain, and I maintain my CFII. There is no better feeling than sending a student off on their first solo and seeing the huge smile on their face when they get back. I do not instruct to build time, I do it because aviation has been very good to me and this is my way of giving back. I don’t even charge for my time, aviation has been that good to me. I do it for the love of it. Having said that, as CFI’s, we are not only responsible for our students, but also for the lives of their future passengers and the people on the ground they fly over. There is a law of primacy in aviation. You will always remember the first things you are taught. When the crap is hitting the fan, you will always go back to the fundamentals you learned first. That puts a pretty big burden on us CFI’s, and we better take our role seriously. So, as CFI’s, we have a great responsibility to uphold. That is why when I first heard about this accident it made my blood boil. I will not go into further detail, because you explained it beautifully. Keep up the good work!

[@speed150mph]

Here’s my question. Do you feel like the job of CFI is treated a little too flippantly in the community? I’m not a pilot but I’ve done my research when I was thinking of going for airline pilot. For many people, becoming a CFI is seen as a stepping stone to build hours and make some money in the run for the airlines. Many PPL students are being taught by people who just barely finished their own flight training and have a bare minimum of flying experience themselves. On the one hand, everything is fresh in their minds, but they are still learning things themselves. So back to my question. Do you feel that this stepping stone approach is a good way of doing things, or do you think that the CFIs teaching new pilots should be more experienced?

[@av8rGrl734]

I have always found it odd that in an industry where a sink or swim involves life or death we have the most inexperienced people training the new students.

[@entelin]

@@av8rGrl734 My flight instructor was a younger guy building hours for his career. He was great, he loved to fly and was able to keep up with my interest to learn. We finished my PPL in 6 weeks if I recall. Instructing is not for everyone, and I'm sure some aren't suited for it. I suppose it mostly comes down to flight schools and their hiring process. I met my instructor through my flying club, so it was a direct relationship, I never went to a brick and mortar flight school. Personally, I don't have a problem with that aspect of the system, what really matters for an instructor or any teacher, is the ability to impart knowledge and stoke the interest in the subject. You don't need to be a chemistry researcher to teach high-school chemistry. While an experienced airline pilot probably would be able to give someone useful career advice, you don't need that to teach for the PPL. Not to mention, there are life-long flight instructors, it's not like everyone only uses it as a stepping stone.

[@mymai5859]

Wish you could be my instructor you sound like a great mentor. Sadly we live in different countries but I'll be looking for CFI's that hold good qualities as per this video. 💜

[@gozur7374]

@@speed150mph it all depends on the instructor that you get. A lot of the young guys and gals are outstanding instructors. They have the advantage of having just gone through what you are trying to do. Yes, there are time builders who only care about themselves. If you get one of these, and it should be obvious when you do, there is no law that says you have to keep flying with them. Remember, you are paying them. They work for you. If it is not working out, go to the chief instructor and ask for a change. The disadvantage the young guys have as opposed to us old heads is what we call airmanship. That comes with experience. Us old guys have seen a lot, made a lot of mistakes, and lived to tell about them. Our bag of tricks is simply bigger than the younger guys. Does not mean they are bad instructors and cannot teach you a lot, it just means that we have different perspectives. In fact, when I get ready to send a student to their first check ride, I always send them to a local flight school to get a few rides with a new instructor. They can teach the nuances of passing the PPL checkride better than me. They just did it. I did it decades ago. I always tell them “I have taught you to fly, they are going to teach you to pass your checkride.” The best case scenario in my humble opinion is to fly with both very experienced instructors as well as the younger guys. You can learn a lot from both of us. Hope that helps and good luck!

[@jfavignano]

well said Josh

[@ms.chanandlerbong3682]

Hi Jeff im a long-time subscriber 😊

[@YetiThaGr8]

Oh, hey there Jeff

[@joshuagraves1683]

Awesome debrief Josh. Well done. Geez how sad man. Another needless accident and such a high cost for the student and the families of the deceased. Bless their hearts.

[@Aviation101]

the highest cost. 😞

[@ShaunHensley]

Let’s just say the apple didn’t fall far from the tree regarding that so called instructor

[@MickyMonday]

@@Aviation101 Probable the first time the student is night pre-flighting and the instructor cant help but do nothing and complain....

[@vodkarocket1]

@@ShaunHensleyyeah, his defending of his sons snapchats comments was unnecessary and frankly, they are indefensible. It is sadly obvious this boy learned his lack of humility from his father.

[@buckwheat1070]

I remember my first CFI Jim in Athens GA. He was older. Very mature and calm. He started me on a great path. He was always respectful and matter of fact. Sadly, I had to move to another state, and end my training with him. His last words to me were “You need to keep flying, you’re a natural.” That really stuck with me to continue to do right by what he would expect from me. In Maine I had a new, younger CFI, similar in manner to this deceased CFI. My first flight was an awful experience. I tried my best and naturally assumed “it must be me.” After a second flight lesson, I was so discouraged that I quit. Follow up three years later and I tried flying lessons again, this time in Columbus, Georgia. My CFI was a young man named Anthony. To say he was unconventional would be an understatement. He was excellent. We got along well, and I passed my check ride easily. Everything this video says is true. If it doesn’t fit, as the deceased student already knew, fire your CFI. Yes, FIRE them. It’s not a question of personalities. It’s up to the CFI to reach across to you. If they don’t, or can’t they’ve failed in their job.

[@tscott6843]

I got my private license in 1980. My best instructor was a Marine Lt Colonel, Commanding Officer and pilot in an A4 squadron. He was buying the flight school prior to retirement. The patience he showed me while puttering along in a Piper Tomahawk was amazing. He watched me closely and reinforced what I needed without me asking.

[@mutherbird]

At 75yo, retired, and living on SS, I made the decision to cease flying, simply because doing my "90 day VFR currency" flight was not enough to keep me proficient, and I knew it better than anyone else. My CFII is still current, and I can still exercise that privilege (even with my expired medical) so long as the person I fly with is completely legal as PIC. Just know, I agree with you 1000%, and applaud this post from you. I soloed at 16. My instructor (a WW2 B-24 pilot who later flew F-100's) was a god to me! I dare say, he was my very first role model!!! Across the years, I've had many other instructors...some of them quite good, and others....well......I've experienced the dark cloud of equals to your subject flight instructor a few times too!!!!! Once, I got rusty with my Instrument skills, and scheduled an instructor to accompany me in a Piper Arrow for a night flight from Concord CA to Sacramento. He was exhibiting many of the traits you have described. While taxing to the active, I key'd Ground and cancelled IFR, with request to taxi back to the FBO.

[@williamporter3806]

You, sir, are a hero to me. You have a great attitude and the guts to back it up. Knowing when to say "enough" takes a lot of honest introspection and courage against perceived societal expectations. Thank you for being a responsible pilot.

[@sonnygL7]

Thank you sir for being a responsible pilot. God bless you, 🙏🏼

[@A_JoshOfAllTrades]

You are a good man. Be well going forward!

[@flyerbluedog]

That was the right thing to do, on both counts, but what impressed me the most, is you driving this guy back to the FBO. Good on you, mate! as they say down under 😉

[@troybaxter]

Sorry, but what is IFR and FBO? I'm not privy to aviation terminology.

[@telepilotmd11]

Great video. I am recently retired from a major airline. As a Captain, I figured out quickly, the more comfortable the guy is sitting in the right seat, the smoother the entire flight is going to go. If your F/O makes a little mistake, rather than jump on him about it, correct it, let him know you are just backing each other up so you can both get to the layover hotel in one piece. Same with you flight instructors, make the guy comfortable and he'll learn quickly. Nothing will shut down a student pilot (or fellow crew member) faster than screaming at him.

[@acaptain5118]

Airline Check Pilot here. Bravo Josh. Every day I show up with a student, I am accountable to my passengers and to training my students to be accountable to them. We owe them our livelihoods and our focus and expertise.

[@bruschi8148]

Disgusting behavior from that "CFI"

[@Aviation101]

Repulsive and reprehensible.

[@FlightChops]

@@Aviation101 - Yeah - brutal. I hadn't heard about this one until now. So much good advice here.

[@Capecodham]

CFI?

[@Biglmpact]

Certified Flight Instructor@@Capecodham

[@topgunsean]

@@CapecodhamCommercial Flight Instructor

[@nekkiddan]

Thank you Josh for this video. I am a licensed pilot, finally! I've had at least four instructors before I finally got my license. The first and second instructors were very nice, both got jobs with the airline industry while instructing me. The third was exactly what you have described in this video. I was constantly yelled at, embarrassed and finally I told him that as a student pilot, I was going to make mistakes, but I was there to learn, not to be yelled at so I quit. My fourth instructor was a retired Air Force pilot, 3000+ hours, extremely patient with me, had nothing to prove to anyone and this man loved to teach! I learned early on that this was the instructor that I needed. I wanted to learn how to fly for convenience. My wife lived in six hours away driving, but 1.5 hours flying. I got my license. On one particular weekend trip, I flew my wife to Charleston, W. Va. airport. Her parents lived in St. Albans, W. Va. I dropped her off, came back home to Frederick, Md. Sunday afternoon a week later, I got up, checked weather in Charleston, all was good so I left Frederick to go pick her up. On my way down, I checked weather, scattered and broken cloud cover in Charleston. I was flying over Martinsburg, W. Va. and it was solid cloud cover, nothing under me but clouds. I wasn't IFR rated. What happens if I get to Charleston and it's nothing but clouds. I checked ATIS, same info, scattered and broken. My instructor had told me many, many times about get-there-itis! I turned around and came back to Frederick. Upon coming into Frederick, I was once again confronted with solid cloud cover. I couldn't see the ground. I knew I was over the airport because the Vortac kept going from to, to from, back to to, back to from. I knew I was flying over the Vortac located at the airport. So, what do I do now? I found a sucker hole and I went through it and got under the clouds. Thankfully there wasn't another fool like me trying to get on top of the clouds. I landed. AOPA was located on the airport grounds. I walked in and signed up to get my IFR rating. The words of my Air Force flight instructor were screaming in my head. I had done a very stupid thing but made it out alive, this time. It wasn't going to happen again. My get-there-itis could have killed me and had I made it to Charleston, it could have killed both of us on the way back. This video brought those memories back, the good and the bad.

[@jessicasnaplesfl7474]

Not a pilot but I wonder WHY all recreational pilots do not get their IFR certification.

[@xb70valkyriech]

@@jessicasnaplesfl7474 well its expensive and not needed for most flights. But flying vfr deserves the same amount of respect as flying ifr, and requires the same level of diligence and planning. It's clear that OP learned a valuable lesson here.

[@alisonwilson9749]

@@xb70valkyriech My pilot friend here in the UK got his IFR although he hoped never to need it- he always checked weather and avoided anything doubtful- but in the UK our weather can change very, very fast due to being such a small island in such big seas.

[@rpcraighead]

Thanks Josh. I'm working on my CFI at age 54. I don't need money or hours... I'd love for it to be my part-time, and later my 'retirement job'. I've taught multiple subjects in the military... There was no yelling or sarcasm. We fired instructors like that if they couldn't be coached. We provided learning opportunities respectfully to even the lowest ranked soldier or sailor for one simple reason: The other way doesn't work, and what we taught was life and death. And instructor has to be accepted by the student. Thanks for this video Josh... I'm going to do this for the love of it.

[@crooked-halo]

Hey! Wow! I'm 56 and have a commercial/instrument, haven't flow in about 20 years, and also will soon begin working on CFI. Well, after I get current of course! Goal would be CFII & MEI (is there MEII?). I also don't need the money/hours but have been told I'm a good teacher in my role in maintenance of F-35s, teaching new-hires & instructing in certain tasks someone is new to. I would like to instruct perhaps full-time until I can do it no longer.

[@Capecodham]

I am "working" on playing for the Patriots.

[@Jeffrey-Flys]

Josh.. my daughter and I found your channel about 5 years ago…. Two weeks ago (at age 58.5) I passed my ppl… thanks for saying this. My journey includes losing a cfi in an accident (still baffled from my experience with him), 7 planes and 4 instructors at 5 airports. I was blessed to have four totally different personalities as instructors have… but also that every one of them was a pro. Again. Thanks for saying ALL OF THIS

[@darylic146]

Hey Jeff, i'm glad to see your age in this commect. I am 49 years old and have won't to fly since i was a kid and haven't started yet. I was actually thinking today to myself, Am i to late? Well i can now see your comment and tell myself, It's never to late. Thanks Jeff for sharing this bit of info. Stay safe brother.

[@idekav.]

@@darylic146brother its never too late, please please do not think just because your any certain age its ever too late, just start, put the worry aside and just start.

[@idekav.]

congrats on passing!

[@HEXpertStaker]

Yes Jeff, thanks for sharing this comment. At 52, I've been watching Josh and others for the same amount of time. I hope to start working on my ppl within the next couple of years, hopefully. Congrats, and stay safe!

[@Pilotdude6784]

Jeff, I started flying at 59 and passed my checkride at 60. I also feel blessed by the professional attitude of my 3 CFI's. 3 different people, a few different things to learn from each, but a supportive and professional attitude displayed by all. Its good to see those with a megaphone (not to mention younger) like Josh thoughtfully calling out what is wrong.

[@aviatrix007]

Finding a flight instructor that loves to teach and isn’t just using the student to get to the airlines…is so rare. I’ve changed flight instructors more than once. I finally got my commercial certificate last week. I plan to continue on to CFI and my aim is to be nothing like the irreverent and thoughtless CFIs that exist today. (I realize there are a few good ones). But by God’s grace, I will be the best instructor I can be who loves to teach and values the time and most importantly, the lives of my students.

[@chrismanscherf6218]

As a child as a student you inherently and sometimes blindly put your trust And faith in your mentor/instructor.A friend once advised me that a cfi is there to instruct make you a safe pilot and open you up to the beauty and joys of aviation. In my training I had to FIRe 2 different CFI’s It was hard like firing a teacher or professor; you may be too afraid to do it. But it may be for your own good and your life.We’ll presented concern.

[@frankb8058]

I passed this video on to my local FAASTeam. This needs to be viewed by as many instructors, pilots and flight schools as possible. This may be the single most important video on your channel. We need to do and be better as an aviation community.

[@Aviation101]

Thanks so much for sharing, and for being a part of this conversation.

[@danpage6044]

Well stated.

[@ricksmith6888]

As a fellow Instructor, that was one of the best debriefings I have heard and we need many more posted. We have so many "Professional" pilots making it look so easy that the plane almost flies itself in their KZbin videos. This has created what I call the Video Game Pilot, one that knows the technologies and yet not the fundamentals. This is the job of a good instructor, teach EVERY aspect of the fundamentals as though that student was going to be your co-pilot for life. With some instructors, I'm sure that concept may be a scary thought.

[@ReflectedMiles]

I agree with this. My favorite captains / FO's to fly with over the years have been those with the stick-and-rudder, seat-of-the-pants sense to be able to seriously and precisely fly an airplane while always thinking in terms of moderating risks and having plan-B's for those moments when something was not going to work as anticipated. The video-game style of training, practice, and operations will never take someone to that level.

[@davidwhite8633]

@@ReflectedMilesYes -- vids and simulators have their place - good for procedures, and cheaper than the real thing ,especially IFR work . But, for the feel of the a/c and what it’s telling you , particularly light a/c , not so much of course .

[@BruceDuty-k6i]

This has so much more to do than just aviation, it has to do with anyone in any profession that should be acting as a mentor to others. I am a senior engineer at a wireless phone company and I mentor and encourage the new people as they come into the company to try to give them the confidence to do what they need to do. I remember when I first started the senior engineers where unhelpful and discouraging. I vowed never to be like that and to give up my time to help people to the fullest of my ability whenever they need it. Good for you Sir!

[@AlexGac]

This was much more calm and collected than it deserved-- but that's a testament to your professionalism. Appreciate your contributions to GA, Josh. When I told my wife about this accident, I was visibly agitated, and she was flabbergasted. I've been fortunate to have very good instructors, and I'm very thankful there are so many strong, visible, and vocal advocates for safe and fun flying.

[@Aviation101]

Thanks so much - It's our job (as humble aviators) to keep this dialogue going.

[@angleofattack]

Fantastic video, Josh. As instructors in this new generation, I hope you and I can lead the charge and set a new standard of excellence. And it's really all about mindset. A humble, always learning mindset like you articulated well here. The age of hard@$$-nothing-is-good-enough flight instructors is over. Everyone will be better off if we can all treat each other a little bit better.

[@fight2flyphoto]

The problem instructors are the time-builders. They have no experience, have no desire to instruct, and are merely using other people to fund their career ambitions. That trash has no place in aviation.

[@Aviation101]

Thanks man. Let's lead the conversation. Share Share Share and KEEP IT GOING. 🙌🏼

[@pumpkindog1]

Well said. That flight instructor was probably going to wind up in a deep hole sooner than later. It's just such a shame he took an innocent person with him. I feel so sorry for the families of both young men. I wonder if, at the last second, the instructor was able to say "I'm sorry".

[@deezelfairy]

I doubt it, this obvious narcissist was probably blaming the student until the moment of impact. That's how they are. A true narcissist is one of the most dangerous personality types to be around - any psychologist will tell you they're pretty much unredeemable.

[@FroggyFrog9000]

@@deezelfairy The narcissist and their victim are often indistinguishable to the third party observer. Something to keep in mind.

[@Ena48145]

I don't feel sorry for the "instructor's" family. Did you see what his dad said? Absolutely sickening

[@mohammadnafisidraque3762]

@@Ena48145 what did his dad say ?

[@pumpkindog1]

I did not. @@Ena48145

[@Born2flya]

Watching this video should be MANDATORY before earning every certificate and rating. Well said in a professional, concise and respectful manner. Job well done, Josh.

[@kmac4171]

You are so right about the Law of Primacy. Even though it was 50 years ago, I distinctly remember what my DPE said as he signed off on my Private Pilot check ride, then turned to look directly at me: "Every time you fly an airplane you are putting your life and the lives of your passengers in your hands."

[@rapzeh4]

Reminds me of a saying we have in Romania for driving: "When you're at the wheel, you keep on foot in jail and the other in your grave."

[@irabourstein]

You've made me rethink virtually all of my experiences as a student. I'm embarrassed to admit that everything you said made perfect sense after you said it, yet practically none of it crossed my mind before I heard you say it. I have much to re-examine, both in my own thoughts and behavior, and in those of my instructors. But most importantly, I am absolutely 100% certain that your production and release of this video will save human lives. You will change the training trajectory of many students, making them better pilots, and some of those students will save their own lives, and others, because of the changes you brought about.

[@MattDunn-t8u]

This is very refreshing to hear. As a 30 year airline pilot, I’m always looking at my First officers as future Captains and how they will eventually communicate with their crews. We are always learning, teaching and communicating. It is up to all of to preserve our workplace culture.

[@VessellNick]

People like Josh give me hope not only as a hopeful aviator, but also as a human. This man is a damn good person, and an even better pilot. I love this channel.

[@cbesthelper404]

I received that same impression while viewing the video. It is similar to the vibe I get from Tyler Dewitt who has a bunch of Chemistry videos. Both Josh and Tyler are very humble, very professional, and extremely intelligent, and they don't let ego get in the way to destroy those good human qualities. We certainly need more individuals like them. Your using the word "hope" resonated with me because that is what I felt after viewing this. I felt more hopeful that there are still good people in the world, young and old.

[@VessellNick]

@@cbesthelper404 I’ll have to look into the channel. I’m more into engineering/physics, but anyone worth their salt knows that chemistry is an undeniably important field of study. The funny thing is guys like Josh used to be the norm. Tell it like it is, facts/logic/reasoning as opposed to todays culture of lying to fit in with the majority. Being the “cool” guy is not always cool.

[@Skyhawk945]

I was blessed to have the most amazing flight instructor that was always at her best and expected the same from me. So thankful for her dedication and professionalism to aviation and her students.

[@KitfoxGrin]

I've spent the last 600 hours unlearning much of the first 4,000 and the weakness of much of my early training. These are spot-on points you make. Thank you.

[@mohammadnafisidraque3762]

Hi, I'm a student pilot here. I'm curious to know why and what are you trying to unlearn that you did for a staggering 4000 hours already. Asking because this might direct me to the right part since I'm already in the preliminary stages of learning.

[@alisonwilson9749]

I take the view that beginners in most practical subjects ought to be taught at least initially by the most experienced, not those barely one step ahead of the student. Otherwise, all that happens is the student picks up the instructor's bad habits, and they're very hard to eradicate.

[@KitfoxGrin]

@@mohammadnafisidraque3762 specifically, I picked up my instructor's fear of stalls, such that I tended to make me final approaches with too much energy and not enough precision.

[@KitfoxGrin]

@@alisonwilson9749 exactly.

[@bissce]

I am not a pilot but am a lover of aviation who spent a good portion of my working career teaching technical topics. I have to say "VERY WELL SAID" in my opinion Josh!

[@Aaron-hr5bb]

Josh, I started watching your videos 10 or 12 years ago. I grew up in the 1940s and 50s with a tiny GA airport a mile from my house. Starting when I was 7 I would ride my bike there, walk among the planes and dream. I've never taken lessons, but I love general aviation. I haven't seen your videos for 8 or 9 years, but when I clicked on this in my feed I immediately said, "I know this guy." Then I looked at your handle. What an impressive man you have become. Your parents should be very proud.

[@Raelven]

❤

[@SidestickPilot]

I wrote a massive essay on how much I love this message and how badly it needs to be told. No one needs my life story. All you need to know Josh was that I was applauding after every point you made and at the end of the video. Thank you.

[@abdulsaboorraza6691]

Watching that clip of student pilot doing his walk around crushed my heart, My condolences to the families of both aviators.

[@user-ho1yn6ms7y]

Agreed. Here’s a guy who’s willing to spend thousands of dollars to learn to fly, and even has the humility to tell the instructor he wants feedback. This is infuriating. I’m not a pilot YET, but I’ve been dreaming of it since I was a little boy. This is exactly the reason I plan on doing multiple “discovery flights” with different instructors before I decide on a school. The respect and camaraderie in aviation is what makes it so great!

[@Chris-fn4df]

I wish I had you. I didn't even make it through ground school before I realized how scary and childish my instructors were. I grew up in rural Alaska. Spotting cowboy bush pilots is an essential survival skill that my dad taught me.

[@drawmaster77]

whats a cowboy bush pilot? 😁

[@Chris-fn4df]

@@drawmaster77 cowboy is also a word for someone who is careless, reckless, cavalier Bush pilots are those pilots that specialize in flying and landing in the world’s most remote locations. Bush flying is inherently dangerous not just because these regions have very bad weather, and have poor coverage in… everything; these areas typically can only handle smaller planes - which don’t fare well in poor weather. Small planes, small budgets, big areas… Really bad to toss in a reckless pilot. _Cowboy bush pilot._

[@drawmaster77]

@@Chris-fn4df ohh, thanks for explanation!

[@Chris-fn4df]

@@drawmaster77 anytime

[@E.L.RipleyAtNostromo]

Thank you for posting this! Reminds me of my detested CFI 15 years ago, who spent most of my training literally screaming at me, and I would get so rattled trying to fly the plane and learn while dealing with the insane yelling. “NO! NO! GODDAMNIT HOW MANY EFFING TIMES DO I HAVE TO TELL YOU TO….” (Fill in the blank.). Criticizing almost everything I did, and he refused to follow the Cessna step by step “Learn to Fly” program the Flight School made me buy, that he was supposed to use, so he continually repeated the same lessons, and worse, “taught” me to fly by rarely letting me handle the controls! (“I taught plenty of dumb guys in the Navy and didn’t have some stupid program!”). I don’t think he knew how the computer worked is why he didn’t use it. All that did was drive up my pre-solo hours and costs. It was always, “Watch, here’s how you do it!,” or “Yeah, that was OK, but let me show you a better way, how it’s REALLY done! I have the plane.” Again and again. I was essentially paying $120 an hour at the time plus fuel surcharges for him to fly with me sitting there! He even flew up and down the runway in a nearby town once so he could wave at the woman in the tower he was dating. I was just the passenger paying for everything like an idiot. He also never communicated anything. I tried for a week to get ahold of him before the check ride and he was never available, then two days before I go in and he waves his license in my face; “I’ve got mine, don’t you care enough to get yours? Where have you been!! We have to prepare!” Me: “I’ve been in every day looking for you, and I left messages.” Him: “THAT’s YOUR PROBLEM! I’ve got my license!” And on and on; I was working 50 hours a week and trying to be there on his schedule, but he made it impossible with his total lack of communication and don’t give a crap attitude. During prep for the check ride, he followed his friend who was going to give it around, and whenever I spoke to the examiner he would interject: “I never said that! What did I tell you about this guy, huh?” Then they would both laugh and talk about the “dumbass guys they taught to fly in the Navy! Har har, yuk, yuk!” When I finally got my license his friend who did the check ride told me “you did a shitty job on your steep turns, but I guess. Here’s your license. Congratulations.” I took my $15,000 and 110! hour solo shirt tail off the wall and threw it in the trash, told him and my CFI to shove it, and never flew again. I’ve never felt lower or more depressed and worthless and “shitty” about anything I supposedly accomplished. That was the year I lost my love of all things aviation i had had since I was a kid, and stopped going to the regional air show. I know, my fault for the reaction, and taking it so poorly, but I’m embarrassed to tell people how long the whole training process took me and what a miserable ordeal it ended up being. If this ahole arrogant CFI had survived, he should have been fired by the FBO. Thanks again.

[@mayatate2793]

Your reaction is totally justified and proportional. It's awful that they robbed you of your love of flying. I hope you get back into it some day.

[@ianmangham4570]

YOU! did all that 😅YOU! 😅

[@davidlegeros1914]

Dear Sir, I hope that you find or have found a person who genuinely loves to teach aviation and that you get back into the airplane and follow your dreams. When a student has not learned, it is usually because the instructor has not taught. The job market for pilots is booming like never before. Follow your dreams, Sir. There are many, many of us who live to see our students succeed!

[@jbreezy101]

Fdso

[@stewie84]

That’s not how the vast majority of the aviation community is at all. I don’t understand why you stayed with that instructor… and I really don’t understand why you quit flying after finally getting through all of that. I strongly recommend looking back into it…

[@tpspc03]

As a professional pilot I have said this before, and will say it as long as the situation persists: Pilots as a group have a major humility issue. Thank you for bucking the trend.

[@great-life-experiences2024]

💯

[@VchaosTheoryV]

In the trucking industry, this is a problem as well. Always contact your dispatch and request a new instructor if your safety is in question. Your safety and the safety of your peers are number one.

[@Ginger-g8j]

My thoughts exactly bad attitudes are contagious you wouldn’t want to catch it

[@1hornet1]

Good video man. My niece is a flight instructor living with me while building time as a flight instructor. She just passed 700 hours and for the last several months I have listened to her talk about the challenges she faces with certain students. She and I talked about this video last night and listened closely to the snap chat posts of that instructor. I was reassured that she was appalled by his behavior. When she gets to a certain point where some students don't seem to be progressing after considerable extra effort, she talks to a chief and they try another instructor. Keep up the good work brother.

[@earthwindflier]

First, blue skies to the poor student who needlessly died. And condolences to his poor family. As someone who spent the majority of my 51 years DREAMING of becoming a pilot, this one got to me. Flying has been my own personal Mount Everest that has brought to bare a lifetime of strengths AND weaknesses. While it isn't the CFI's job to be a therapist, the individual moments of personal growth under the direction of a GOOD CFI are priceless. The confidence brought about by a CFI that sees you as a person and not a paycheck will likely shave hours off stage of training. For those in training unsure of where they stand in the student/instructor relationship.....never fly with ANYONE who makes you feel "less than". Your time (and life) are more valuable than that.

[@timhoke2]

If you haven't achieved a pilot certificate, stick with it. I got mine at age 72 and am working on IFR rating at age 76. If I can do this, anyone can

[@earthwindflier]

@@timhoke2 Thanks! But happily certificated now working on my tailwheel endorsement. I could have been a little more clear in my post. lol

[@johnrountree370]

My grandson is working his first flight license. I will make sure that he sees this video, understands what you are saying, and hopefully grows from this. Thank you for making a very important point. I am not a pilot but have been a teacher for many years. Your thoughts are on the mark for anyone who accepts the responsibility of guiding others in their chosen field. Again, sincere thanks.

[@Blackhawkae69]

That debrief broke my heart. You're one hell of a role model and I wish all flight instructors were like you. Can't believe that instructor was allowed to teach and I'm so sorry for that student who paid the ultimate price 😢

[@65gtotrips]

I totally respect that he took the responsibility to not only himself but to his viewers to write down every thought and be comfortable enough to read it on camera. Very professional.

[@dps6198]

This month Tennessee Fly Girl was on a three hour flight to Arkansas to see about upgrading the autopilot on her plane. She was accompanied by her father. She was totally unaware how to use or set the autopilot that the plane got away from her. She crashed the plane into a hill killing them both. The plane burst into flames destroying it. One or both of the GoPro survived the crash and fire. They were trying to figure out how to work the autopilot a Century 2000. In previous videos, she recorded all of them, the main issue was the autopilot. It wasn't working as she put it but it was it was she didn't know how to use it. She went though several instructors while filming her lessons. She had two or three cameras mounted in the cockpit. When she was fussing with the autopilot trying to get it t work the instructor was on his phone checking for messages. Imagine that. Each of the flight instructors failed to report Fly Girl to the FAA stating that she needed to basically start her lessons from the very beginning. I don't suppose that she knew how to judge instructors based on knowledge or references. Fly Girl admitted that she wasn't where she needed to be with basic skills. Her instructors should have prevented her going solo. Based on her videos her instructors should have asked her to remove the cameras so she could focus on flying.

[@kerprice]

I was watching the videos available and I'm not a pilot nor interested in flying, but her instructors didn't explain the reasoning behind everything, she did seem like she did not know why she was doing stuff, or why stuff went wrong. One guy seemed to make suggestions without explanations. I don't know what instructors do during these flights, but it seems like they should be doing more instructing in a firm manner

[@markmize9235]

Not only did her instructors fail her, whoever signed off on her check ride failed right?

[@HeyMyster]

In TNFlyGirl case, root cause anaylsis would more likely reveal 1) initial and subsequent CFI negligence and 2) lack of SA. There were many videos revealing her lack of cognizance and SA in the seat leading up to that dreadful day. Social media captures and attention are no doubt contributing factors. Compares to negligence while driving vehicles with cell phones in hand. Death rates have continued on an upward trend. Sad for all.

[@neodonkey]

I have made the mistake she was making before with an in-car gadget. Trying to learn it while driving and without the manual. Stupid rookie mistake. In the end I found the manual and fully familiarized myself with it while NOT driving. So when she was trying to just figure out her autopilot as she flew it was painful to watch. It was like the mistake I had made but far more serious and dangerous. She should have sat at home one time, pulled out the manual and spent a few hours fully familiarizing herself, and then testing out her new knowledge on her next flight. If she got confused that should be a sign to go back to the manual or consult someone else with experience of the model. It was also clear she did not know how to operate her GPS, where she was randomly stabbing at buttons, then turned it off and didn't know how to turn it on again. This is understandable, it looks like a complex device that has a lot of buttons. She needed to know that GPS just like the autopilot.

[@chuckschillingvideos]

The with her autopilot wasn't that she didn't know how to use it (though she didn't, not really) but that she couldn't fly the aircraft without it. Ridiculous.

[@DogDayz0fSummer]

This advice could be used in any industry where safety is concerned. Thank you, Josh, for this very important video.

[@Nomar1997]

Thanks for an incredible debriefing, Josh. I am a non-pilot dad with a 19 year old daughter who is working on her commercial rating right now. She is planning on getting her CFI soon afterwards. She has been fortunate to have some wonderful instructors on her journey; some *old* guys in their 50's and her current instructor(a great guy!) in his mid 20's! I hope a lot of current and future CFIs see this video. My hear aches for the parents of that poor student in Kentucky.... :(

[@TXFlyer32]

Josh, I’m in the Austin area and recently found your channel. I am a student pilot and this may be the most important flight safety KZbin video ever, certainly the best I’ve seen.

[@yveaux500]

As a CFI this also made my blood boil. This guy was insult to our profession. Saw a Facebook post from the CFI's dad (who together with his son also had some run ins with the law by the way) in which he defends his son by saying he was an exemplary CFI. Humulity, self refelection and honesty start with your upbringing. This CFI came from a family where this apparently was not part of the syllabus at home. Feel sorry for the family of the student.

[@SnickasBah]

Saw that too. He's so gross.

[@HeyMyster]

As retired military in aviation for 2.5 decades, we always said "it starts at home". You hit it on the head. It's a toxic fester in this case.

[@TalkingHands308]

Yep, seems like the apple didn't fall far from the tree in that case.

[@MarieAntoinetteandherlittlesis]

The fact that he and his dad got arrested together while drinking was involved- that should have been a red flag regarding their judgement. The Dad sounds exactly like his son- haughty, arrogant and foolhardy. His son never should have been a CFI. His open mocking of that student was just sad. What chance did that kid have with him as a guide? I truly believe if the kid had a different instructor, he would have survived that flight. Not only did the kid die under a bad instructor, the Dad then goes online and insults the kid AGAIN publicly, reiterating what his son said on Snapchat. Unbelievably sad.

[@oleleclos]

Well said! The two mantras that kept me safe throughout my flying were: “Flying is not dangerous, it’s just very unforgiving of errors” (subtext: work hard to avoid errors) and “Better down here wishing you were up there than up there wishing you were down here” (subtext: delay, divert or cancel if you’re not sure). All of which, and much more besides, was taught to me by a string of excellent instructors and examiners (yes, I learned from several of my examiners) as I progressed from PPL to CPL to ATP. But I have also met some gung-ho, downright dangerous instructors who showed me how NOT to be a pilot - but may also have produced a few gung-ho, downright dangerous pilots.

[@alisonwilson9749]

In horse riding we say there are old riders, and bold riders. But not old, bold riders.

[@mitch1161]

I’m just starting my research on obtaining a pilot’s license. I’m a bit older than most beginners & wouldn’t tolerate disrespectful behavior from anyone including a CFI. I truly appreciate you making this video to hopefully raise awareness of these issues for students, CFI’s & pilots. Great job & well stated sir! 👍

[@Westie_NZ]

I'm a teacher, trainer and operations manager (not in aviation). I love your attitude and your approach to presenting this video. We need more people like you in all industries and companies. If there were more students and instructors who were guided by your suggestions there would be more challenges, more successes, more rewards, and more happy people in the world.

[@Hugocraft]

I experienced that weather storm and observed the high gusty winds that night all while on the ground. Then the next morning to learn a small plane was flying in that and had crashed, that brought in a mix of emotions of why was someone flying in that. Then over time to learn more and more details about the flight, it made my blood boil too. Then thinking of the family of the student pilot is very rough too. I hope this video you made can be shared when pilots need a reality check and some humility.

[@AutumnAspens68]

THANK YOU! Well said...Your VIDEO should be sent to all folks getting into aviation! As a retired USAF aviator and Flight Safety Officer across many assignments I am humbled by your HONEST and DIRECT discussion! I wish there were more Professionals like you are in the aviation community! As a former instructor and evaluator...I took EVERY SINGLE comment from the students I trained. I learned a TON about humility and accepting criticism. EVERYONE can learn from what you so eloquently stated!

[@noblegoldheart8508]

I've commented on many of your videos. I'm a student pilot who is about to apply for my check ride. I'm also currently in aircraft maintenance school for my A&P license. I've been in love with aviation since 2010, and I'm very thankful that I have the opportunity to finally get my soon to be pilots license and A&P license. During my journey into aviation, I've learned what it really takes to get into the industry, and how to be a safe pilot and mechanic. I've witnessed a lot of people who I think don't belong in aviation. Recently I came up with five important traits that every aviator should show. And those five traits are trust, respect, humility, approachability, and discipline. Eventually I plan to fly for the airlines, and I will carry all five of those traits with me when I'm either carrying passengers, carrying cargo, or even instructing student pilots. Which I also would like to do. I will also keep those traits with me as I work on airplanes. Because I cannot skip a beat when I'm inspecting an airframe or Power-plant, or conducting a repair. I'm very thankful to have been assigned an instructor who is also passionate about aviation. He also wants to fly for the airlines, but he is the exact opposite of the instructors who are using flight instructing to simply build time. My instructor holds his students to a high standard, and makes sure they are thoroughly ready for their check ride. Aviation is an industry that truly can be fun. But all the federal regulations that it's based around were created for a reason. Most of those regulations were written in blood. And if I'm being honest, I think the recent events of aviation will have major implications on the industry.

[@Kilosim]

As soon as I heard they flew into thunderstorms I realized the incompetence of the CFI, and I deeply respect the humility in the student pilot calling out his own weaknesses, something I strive for in my learning, to bring my weaknesses to my instructor and fix them/strengthen them. Every instructor I have had in the glider and in the plane has been generally very clear and understanding, although not everyone is like that. I need to take this to heart... Very well done sir.

[@pnwpacer1685]

This is such and important topic to be discussed. Thank you for using your platform to deliver the message to the aviation community. Not connecting with your instructor can be an uncomfortable topic but do not be afraid to recognize the need to change. You will not regret that uncomfortable conversation. Keep up the great work Josh!

[@markstacy9708]

My dad was my instructor. He and I still love to talk aviation, even though neither of us fly now. He loved instructing, and I loved flying with him! I was blessed to have such a great instructor! Love your channel.

[@dwayneenglish7801]

Hi Josh, I found your videos long ago to feed my own love for aviation. I am not a pilot, but fascinated by aviation. Years later to present time, my 19 year old son sits a few hours away from his private pilot check ride and will be attending an aeronautical university next year. I could not share this video with him fast enough as I agree that there are so many learning points for a student like him. Thank you for using your platform to inform safety and aviation. As a supportive, but sometimes nervous, parent of a student pilot, even I feel supported by your vigor. Thank you.

[@thirdiprodigy3579]

As a aspiring Pilot this terrifies me. Condolences to the young lads family

[@Arctonaut]

I’m training for my CFI. You give very good advice, and have handled this case study better than anyone else I’ve listened to thus far. Thank you.

[@douglaswhitcomb9729]

Excellent video here and absolutely needed. I’m a retired Corporate Pilot and CFI of 35 + years and agree with your assessment 100%. Aviation demands the highest levels of professionalism and discipline. Thank you for reinforcing this.

[@Aviation101]

I'm glad this topic has so much support. Let's keep the dialogue going!

[@douglaswhitcomb9729]

Would love to participate in anyway I can. Continuing training, regardless of TT, Type Ratings, or seat is extremely important. Initial and recurrent training isn’t enough. It doesn’t need to be fancy. AOPA, FSF, NBAA, and others are all great resources. Also, treat each flight with the highest level of professionalism and discipline it deserves. It doesn’t matter if it’s KSLN or SAEZ. Humility is also key. Thanks again for your efforts.

[@sharkman5878]

i was fortunate to have flight instructors who were encouraging, engaged and took their job seriously. completely agree with your observations josh. any teacher/student relationship would ideally have these qualities of mentorship, respect and patience.

[@BaronPilot]

Well said Josh! I imagine one of my loved ones being in that situation and it makes my blood boil! Student pilots often put instructors on a pedestal as they have nothing to compare them to. The only thing I would add is don’t let anyone rush you and if your spider senses tell you something is wrong or you shouldn’t continue, don’t! It’s always better to talk about it on the ground than wish you were on the ground. Thanks for speaking out about this! 🍻

[@Aviation101]

Exactly! Thanks for being a part of this conversation.

[@WolfPilot]

Imagine if Kim had an instructor like this thug. I am shivering as I type this.

[@BaronPilot]

@@WolfPilot fortunately for Kim and my son they have me to bounce things off of and hopefully have had enough real world flying to know to question things. Not everyone is so fortunate. Even still it’s an important conversation to have as it’s easy to fall victim to these situations.

[@BaronPilot]

@@Aviation101 always ready to stand up for aviation. 💪🏼 👨🏻‍✈️

[@russellfoos5560]

Nothing else to say besides "well done, Josh" You are an outstanding attribute to the world of general aviation; here's to hoping that people will listen.

[@LuxPlanes]

Its incredibly disappointing to see an instructor put a student down so badly. Thanks for bringing more attention to this topic in a very respectable way. I hope there wont be such a case again, a person like him should never be allowed to become an instructor which such an attitude

[@Thumper43230]

As a low time student pilot I really appreciated hearing your input on that whole situation and am happy you stood up and voiced your thoughts.

[@jgnderitu]

Josh, thanks for this. In the beginning of my PPL training, I had such an instructor. I feel I should have said something. I did not know better. I was scared. I actually thought I was just not good enough. You have spoken for me and for others.

[@eugeneweaver3199]

I hope you continue your education as a pilot, I suggest you interview CFIs just like you would perspective employees. That's what they are! (Worked for me) Believe me, I know exactly how you felt, but you have to understand, it's not just about you, it's about everyone else put in danger! No matter how uncomfortable it is, we as students must speak up!

[@S.E.M.876]

This! I had the same experience. I also didn’t want to say anything because you know the community is small and I was always told you don’t want to step on any toes because you don’t know who you will be working with in the future.

[@jgnderitu]

@@eugeneweaver3199 I completed my training up to Commercial. But I have never forgotten that experience. Now I know better of course.

[@jgnderitu]

@@S.E.M.876 Very sorry to hear you went through that. Nobody should ever have to. I hope you still went on to achieve your dreams

[@Capecodham]

PPL?

[@wagonmaster1974]

My first flight was in 1969. I was 14. Rode with a ret. AF pilot, who had a zillion hours and a great demeanor. He had spoken with me for hours about the basics, including "what if" scenarios. Was in an early 60s Mooney, taking a couple of friends back to college - one in Denton, TX, one is Stillwater, OK. I got my chance at the controls after departing SWO. We went north, over Lake Carl Blackwell. I was in the right seat, of course, and after about 15 minutes of tutelage, wasn't all over the sky. Pretty straight and level. Thereupon, the engine quit. Raw panic came up in me, but my AF buddy reminded me we had discussed these scenarios and reminded me of what to do. Aviate, navigate, communicate. Did two of those things and pretty soon the panic subsided. We were at about 5K feet, so pretty well set for figuring it out. When I did, the engine came back to life. It was a deliberate fuel starvation [he shut the fuel off at the valve, located on the left, in a Mooney]. I was pissed, but the lesson proved invaluable.

[@daniellobb]

Thank you Josh. This is horrific story and my heart goes out to the families of the student pilot and the CFI. Their loss is one that no one should have to bear. I can think of no more appropriate tribute than reaching out, as you are, to all pilots and CFI's with this lesson we can learn from.

[@mtt9772]

I'm actually amazed you were able to hold back as well as you did. This whole scenario is so disturbing and disgusting the more I learn about it. I'm in the process of becoming a CFI and I find the responsibility daunting, even scary. Not a responsibility to take lightly at all.

[@sar4x474]

I am not an aviator, but was in a profession requiring a high degree of risk management and mitigation. Your assessment of the traits of a good instructor are spot on. You did a great job with this video. Kudos young man.

[@ljdonelson9388]

Worded exactly as I thought the moment I read the reports and saw the instructors comments. I started my flight training at 57 and had my checkride 5 days after my 58th birthday. And I can say that each instructor I flew with during those months was professional and focused on safety, theirs and mine, and our school aircraft. Businesses look at the social media posts of potential candidates. Perhaps it is now a point of reference for every CFI with the goal of establishing the mindset and professionalism of the instructor.

[@Aviate68]

Thank you for this video Josh. I'm currently studying for my CFI and I cannot believe how self centered this "teacher" was on that night. It was apauling to see this guy act the way he did. In my mind he absolutely got that innocent kid killed. You made so many good points here, especially the fact that many CFIs are using their students as a stepping stone to a better job. While this is not bad at all i think it should be viewed as a consequence of being a good CFI and not as a mere..."I just gotta instruct for a couple years then im out" mentality. CFIs are the backbone of our aviation world and I am hoping to be a teacher that will continue to fostor and encourage safe practices to all my future students.

[@patrickjones7229]

Great video! I agree with you on every point. I retired from the NTSB after 15 years and normally don’t like these types of videos, but I will follow you and your postings. Thanks and keep up the good work.

[@cpking7]

Glad Josh covered this one: pilots have a sacred duty to their passengers, and instructors to their students, to do everything in their power to keep them safe. We can't control our native talent, but our attitudes can be controlled, and patience is not just a virtue but a critical necessity.

[@Chuckt961]

Leaving the surface of the Earth, putting your life(and others) literally in your hands and the machine you are sitting in should never be lost on anyone flying. It is a glorious gift and privilege to be up there looking out as far as you can see... where only birds, angels and pilots have been before. I was a radio guy doing traffic reporting and flew in a C172 with several different pilots during that time. One was an F-16 pilot and instructor, another was a young CFI about 10 years younger than I was. They all let me fly (I've had every version of flight sim from MS going back to the 80s so it was familiar) and they all made me feel comfortable by telling me I would've been an easy student. They made you WANT to fly with them and do well. Life didn't allow for a Pilot's License for me though and now at 55 I have accepted that it won't. My heart kind of broke for that student. I could feel what he was feeling...would have loved to feel what he was feeling...wanting to get everything right, a little nervous because it was at night maybe? And there was this instructor who took it all for granted and was a jerk. He didn't deserve the privilege and the student didn't deserve that instructor. Thanks for you videos.

[@CptnSavage]

Josh, THANK YOU for making this video! ! ! I'm amazed that the student went up with that guy. From my very first flight, I told my instructor that there was only ONE THING that mattered to me. Flying safely, landing and being able to do it again tomorrow! That is still my attitude. There is NO WHERE I have to go or time to be there that is worth endangering my life or the lives of my passengers. I love flying and wish I lived closer to you so I could fly with you sometime. I'm careful about the instructors I hire to teach me new things or keep me current. Your attitude and approach to flying and instucting is exactly what I search for. Keep up the great work, the great videos and thank you again for speaking up and speaking out on this topic. It needed to be said. Brian

[@matthewblood7450]

You're making a difference in the world Josh and it does not go unnoticed. we need more aviators thinking like you in this world. Thank you brotha

[@thecactusman17]

This isn't just good and critically important advice to student pilots and professional instructors; this is advice that is necessary in any professional environment. From pilots and drivers to machinists and contractors and even office workers and C-Suite executives. Understanding how, when and why to give constructive criticism improves safety, productivity, and morale and that benefits everybody.

[@alisonwilson9749]

Even in non-safety-critical jobs like mine it's the same. You get more out of people if you give criticism constructively. I'm a strict teacher when it comes to things like acceptable behaviours, I expect people to keep to rules and do what they are supposed to be doing, but I still respect my students, and expect the same in return. If I have a rule, or ask them to do or not do anything, I always explain why, and I impress on them that if they don't understand anything, or understand why I am asking them do do things a certain way, then I expect them to speak up and ask, so I can explain again, because if they don't understand, that's my failure and my problem to sort out, not theirs.

[@BeautyofNature-77]

We need more of this Josh! Well said. I've been following you for years. You have earned the respect of the aviation community to give this message in the tone and delivery just displayed. Well done!

[@stephenbenavides791]

You just got yourself a new subscriber. As someone who is in the process of wanting to get their private pilots license, this video strikes my heart to the core. I wish you could be my mentor.

[@gromm93]

His advice to you as a student is every bit as important as anything your instructor tells you: respect your instructor, but if they don't respect you, that's a giant red flag that needs to be squashed right then and there. And that there are some truly terrible flight instructors out there who really shouldn't even be doing the job. Watch out for them and straight up tell them off for doing what they're doing. They might kill you or someone else.

[@Ron-py7rt]

When I heard the details of this wreck from another prominent aviation youtuber, the instructor's behavior was disgusting & in my opinion, he was 100% personally responsible for it happening. My heart goes out to the student pilot, but not to that POShxt flight instructor. Other details were revealed about the guy, his father, partying excessively, prior felony charges against him, etc. This guy should have never been an instructor & God forbid he ever become a commercial pilot. Thank you for posting & you are more diplomatic about this guy than I am. Cheers.

[@sarahalbers5555]

I thought his comment about the Special Olympics was mean spirited and totally inappropriate.

[@BavarianRage]

“..more diplomatic…than I am.” That’s why he stayed on script!!! To prevent the words that would have come naturally.

[@dabassmann]

I'm extremely impressed with your respectful attitude. You're obviously disgusted with the flight instructor, but you didn't berate him, simply stated fact. Kudos to you for that!!!

[@andersoncroydon5281]

THANK YOU, Josh!! From a student pilot who has had to "deal" with a couple of young, time-building, careless and uncaring CFIs.

[@jasonanderson8798]

Thank you for this video. As a new student with aspirations of becoming a CFI, it reinforces the traits of the kind of instructor I want to eventually become. Your passion, and the use of your channel to convey that passion, is exactly the kind of "Be The Change You Want To See" attitude that general aviation needs. Stay safe... Looking forward to your next installment...

[@johnwilson5396]

This post is very relevant and/or close to home as my daughter begins to follow in my footsteps and begins her flight training. To see such arrogance in a pilot or instructor is not new to me. However, using social media to belittle any student is not acceptable. This instructor was more focused on his social content than teaching or be a safe pilot. This video is the right balance of advice for to dwell and here. This will be a discussion for me and my daughter. Thank you!

[@albriseno2428]

Josh, I have subscribed to your channel for some time now and am also a Patreon contributor. THIS IS YOUR BEST VIDEO -- PERIOD! The small money I have contributed to this channel has been repaid many-fold with you airing this video. I can't tell you how mad I was when Dan from TakingOff first aired the video and the comments made by the instructor. I have been blessed to have had two great instructors in my flying career, one of whom I still go up with just to keep me proficient with my IFR flying. Great Job!