345. Raiders of the Lost Ark

[@williambranch4283]

Could listen to Tom Holland forever ;-) It might take forever to listen to all these podcasts ;-)

[@j0nnyism]

I fully expect it to turn up on antiques roadshow some day

[@kyliedavies1695]

😂

[@agumperz]

And the owner will have restored it themselves, removing the patina and reducing its value by 90%.

[@faeembrugh]

I always enjoyed imagining the Ark ending up in a museum and some cleaner opening it to see what's inside...

[@colefowles4003]

What a great podcast thanks so much for sharing!

[@moreliarodriguez4482]

Great episode. You're very knowledgeable.

[@JullianRoman]

Fascinating episode! Best ever!

[@ontaka5997]

Graham Hancock's "The Sign and the Seal" is one of the lesser outrageous books and was quite entertaining. I was reading it when I worked in Ethiopia in the late 90s but never had a chance to visit Axum.

[@kimmuirhead6777]

love your work, I am becoming wise as Solomon listening to you both (but not as letchy :D)

[@stephengray1344]

I'm disappointed that Tom didn't mention into how the Biblical description of the Ark is clearly based on the ritual furniture of 19th Dynasty Egypt. Did his research not turn up "The Ark of the Covenant in its Egyptian context" as source material?

[@joebombero1]

Measurements for the Ark in the Bible is very close to the measurements for the Shrine of Anubis from King Tut's tomb. Also those shrines are very close in measurements to the Ark which is required to be in each Ethiopian Orthodox Church, a copy of the original Ark which the Ethiopian Orthodox Church has from ancient times.

[@murph8411]

I don’t see how you can say that the Jews having a covenant with god was something completely unknown outside this religion since even the Romans had contracts with their gods unless I’m very mistaken. Making sacrifices to gods could also be seen as making a contract with a god or gods and sacrifices were common in many religions.

[@cg98243]

Yet the covenant between God and Abraham, as well as its subsequent revisits with Moses and Jesus, seems to imply more of a two-way bargain of extended obligation, at least to me.

[@aimowenaim]

Yes but other Gods are very capricious and changeable and the Bible makes clear that the nature of our God is different by literally saying that our God is not like these other gods. Our God keeps his promises when he makes them. Often the promises or covenants are conditional and the humans have a side to keep up. Compare this with how the Greek gods act in say the Odyssey or the Iliad. They are constantly switching sides and raping women and behaving abominably.

[@TEMindset83702]

Most Jews accept the ark was destroyed when the First Temple was destroyed by Babylon. If not, then the priests hid it somewhere in the tunnels under the Temple Mount.

[@Wee_Langside]

Like the Scots hid the true Stone of Destiny and let the English take the substitute Stone Of Scone

[@philhurwood3056]

I reckon Ethiopia might be the go! I have no trouble believing in the arks existence, otherwise the biblical narrative would seem a little pointless. It simply symbolised God's presence in the heart of the temple. A role that Christians understood was fulfilled in Jesus of Nazareth...

[@Ken_Scaletta]

Since there was no Moses, no bondage in Egypt, no Exodus, no giving of the law at Sinai, what would the ark actually BE? It's a mythical object in a mythical story. Jesus said the temple was in everybody's heart. by the way. He never said he was God.

[@williambranch4283]

Multiple Jewish temples, including Heliopolis and Elephantine in Egypt. Ultimately brought to several places in Ethiopia, where it remains ;-) Queen of Sheba/King Menelik her son, being featured in yet another story.

[@maxheadrom3088]

You know ... Rabi Mel Brooks once claimed there were 15 commandments!

[@VesnaVK]

The rings were precisely so that you could transport the Ark without touching it. (By threading poles through the rings.) The Bible has loads of contradictions, but this is not one of them. 16:25

[@Jack-eo5fn]

True, so what really happened to the ark and what happened to the only original stone tablets, or did they never exist except in oral legend?

[@sebastiangundolf6740]

​@@Jack-eo5fn We don't know, probably it never existed in the way this "Ark" is portraied here or in other sources.

[@kamarco4839]

The contradiction is that the Ark can move by itself, if it chooses. So what is the need for rings and poles. But… perhaps they are for when the Ark chooses to not levitate.

[@bookaufman9643]

Once upon a time I used to take Bible class before my classes started at High School. There's a passage in the Bible where one of the guys carrying the ark of the covenant slips and God strikes him dead for jolting or nearly dropping the ark. It's really strange but this was a breaking point for me. Any God that would strike somebody dead for stumbling unconsciously and without malice is not a god that I wanted to be involved with. I honestly made that decision there and then in that class and have never turned back.

[@williambranch4283]

G-d isn't love ... G-d is life ... and death is inseparable from death.

[@bookaufman9643]

@@williambranch4283 you don't need a God for life and death. Man creates life and man creates death. Unfortunately he seems to do both with equal enthusiasm.

[@Verita1975]

God didn’t want the Ark moved.. but if it was to be moved it could only be done by a Levite … if someone who was not supposed to touch the ark … they got zapped !

[@murph8411]

Uzzah touches the ark to steady it when it is being taken to Jerusalem by David and God kills him immediately. Is that the story you’re thinking about?

[@bookaufman9643]

@@murph8411 yep that's the one. That's one cool God isn't it. The guy wants to protect this holy thing because it is a vessel of this great force that he admires and worships and that admiring and worshiping Force strikes him dead for trying to avoid letting it fall to the ground. That's an asshole move by God. 100%

[@arden8290]

It always bothered me that in Raiders of the Lost Ark they had the staff and the sun shone through it. But on what day of the year? Would be different.

[@j0nnyism]

They’re beautiful! Aargh (claymation melting face)

[@johnbenson4672]

In before the r/athiest ambassador shows up, lol. Couple of mistakes, Once the Ark was sanctified it wasn't Moses who would go into the Most Holy, it was Aaron and the high priests that followed him. Also, the Levites who were a part of Aaron's family were the ones who were assigned to assemble and disassemble the Tabernacle and move the Ark. There was a cover for it when they moved it around. The Bible is silent as to what happened to it. Whether it was the Egyptians, the Babylonians, the Jews or someone else took it is a mystery. One thing Raiders solidly got wrong, in the movie the cherubs over the Ark are female but for the Jews the cherub would be male.

[@bookaufman9643]

I believe that ten Jews gathered together in prayer is a Minyan. They have to be men and elders of the Schul.

[@Blashswanski]

Probably important to point out that Raiders is, along with everything else, a Jewish revenge fantasy.

[@danacrowzedd1118]

How do I know when the live shows are happening? Are they on KZbin?

[@Kookaburger]

No contradictions in the Bible, just misunderstandings

[@reecemccullough4829]

Just know, you are naive and gullible, and 95% of people think you are a fool

[@cg98243]

Maybe missing the point of the book of Judges a bit. Gruesome chapter 29 is a hint, as well as the closing statement about everyone doing as they wished...

[@milztempelrowski9281]

Not my boy, Graham. He's troubled enough already

[@Kookaburger]

The ark doesn’t float in the air, it’s only carried by ppl…most ppl are not allowed to handle the ark only a sect of priests, I think it’s a sect within a sect of priests

[@JohnOuthwaite-ew3gb]

Trans dimensional white mice as per hitchhikers guide to the galaxy ?

[@georgerichwine1864]

Isn't the ark actually a radio receiver from God?

[@Johnconno]

You're thinking of Cocaine.😂

[@j0nnyism]

I know people complain that raiders of the lost ark make’s archaeology too exciting but there’s one real example that makes those films quite dull and that’s the discovery of Tutankhamen tomb. The tomb of Philip 2nd of macedon and the finding of Troy are pretty close seconds. Reality is sometimes stranger and much more interesting than fiction

[@Wee_Langside]

The discovery of the Royal Library of Ashurbanipal is pretty exciting. Thousands of tablets still to be deciphered.

[@maxheadrom3088]

You mean to say the Arc in the film is not exactly like the real one?

[@katherinestafford7628]

2 Samuel 6:6,7 makes clear the issue is to NOT TOUCH the Ark. Uzza, son of Abinadav, is struck down by God because when the cart carrying the Ark is in danger of falling, Uzza teaches out to steady it. ZAP V

[@louisburke8927]

Siney-eye?

[@Carcrushers-u9t]

When the ark is on the ship with Indiana there are rats around it

[@Chadhogan111]

It's radioactive

[@bedofromkokstad9034]

Definitely sounds like an alien artifact that nobody knew what it was, so gave it god-like status and treated it reverently. So very "apes and monolith" as in "2001 Space Odyssey".... Every church in Ethiopia claims it houses it... Once a year they're all taken out and carried to a central celebration (New Year maybe? - They're 7 years behind us).... Fascinating.

[@peterhowardlawson]

Not Dagon, the horrifying Lovecraftian entity?

[@louisburke8927]

Indiawna?

[@barbararice6650]

I thought there was a carving of Roman soldiers carrying it away after the sack of Jerusalem on Vespasian(?)'s arch

[@ceeeceeeeeeeeeeeeee]

That's a lamp that some claim was the menorah. Many Jewish scholars disagree and hold that the actual menorah was hidden along with the ark and other vessels of the first temple.

[@barbararice6650]

@@ceeeceeeeeeeeeeeeee There you go then 😐

[@chrispurzer9461]

....you're a bit more of a Marcus Brodie.... 😂😂😂

[@ceeeceeeeeeeeeeeeee]

Kinda sloppy research on this one. Moses wasn't allowed to enter the holy of holies, only Aaron and future high priests. And scripture clearly tells us that Moses was commanded to hew the second set of tablets himself.

[@Johnconno]

'Also it's very very Jewish...'😅

[@johnbullard902]

Yes, Tom needs to read his bible a little more carefully

[@williambranch4283]

The Barq of Amon, when it toured Thebes during festivals, was carried on poles, and magically tilted in answer to worshipper's questions .. like "table tipping" seance. Completely plausible it led the Israelites in the desert, but not free floating ... that was insulting ;-(

[@jonmeador8637]

What's in the Ark? The second set of 10 Commandments. Moses destroyed the first set. Oddly, the second set bears no resemblance to the first. Anyone who says "Thou shalt not kill" is in the 10 Commandments hasn't read them.

[@joebombero1]

The actual Hebrew says, Thou Shalt not Murder". Hebrew, like English, has separate words for killing in general and illegal killing. Obviously killing in some circumstances was required as the Temple Mount sold birds and other animals to be used in making sacrifices, also obviously warfare was tolerated if not encouraged.

[@VesnaVK]

​​@@joebombero1 specifying "murder" converts that statement from a commandment into a tautology.

[@patrickm.warren55]

Strange because if the Ark of the covenant is where the seat of God is located, that sounds a lot like a idolatory to me, which is one of the prohibitions in the Commandments. so basically the ark of the covenant is a contradictory as a notion, 4th commandment You shall not make for yourself an idol, whether in the form of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. 5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I the Lord your God am a jealous God etc. … So as I understand it, they put the Commandments, which they smashed to pieces once given to them, and put it busted in a box. Then on that box, they put a slab of thick gold with two gilded statues of cherubum between which is the seat of God. Believers over millennia become obsessed with this ark, oh to find and worship it. If I was sitting in that seat, I’d be pretty pissed off right now.

[@barrylyons9296]

Indiana Jones was my childhood hero. I don't care about Nazis, or snakes.

[@hilarykirkby4771]

I like the footstool idea best. I shall now look at any I come across with great interest. My R.E. tutor wrote in my year-end report that I 'seem to resent the subject'. How right she was, but she didn't make it anywhere near as interesting as you two, i.e. no laughs.

[@maxheadrom3088]

You mean the Bible is not exactly like things were in reality?

[@robertafierro5592]

I thought this was a good idea..

[@tommonk7651]

Raiders of the Lost Ark was/is a terrific adventure film. I never thought about taking it seriously. LOL And the Bible is not exactly an impeccable source.

[@forbuzz4870]

Ark...shmark ...

[@RogueTheology]

Not good.