351 Cleveland 400 or 351M Which Is It?

[@bad406camaro]

That is a double spring with dampener. One good thing the 400 crank was good for. Back in the early 90`s I worked for Chris Huff of Probe had a small machine shop in the San Fernando valley. I learned how to cut the 400 crank to fit the Windsor block. Also did cranks for CDW and a few other shops in the area. But man the 400 crank was a lot of work. It was nothing compared to modern cranks but back then it was the most affordable way to stroke a Windsor

[@shonbratton1906]

U brought back memories of KuntZ Craft stroker kits using the 300-I truck rod

[@MrPoppyDuck]

Wow 50 bucks for a pair of 4 bbl 351c closed chamber heads? That is basically free! Nice score!

[@hotrodray6802]

YeeeHaaaaw!!!

[@mitchf1508]

I had a 71 LTD with the 400 in it. I was 16 years old, so I tested it's WOT ability from a stop all the way to burying the 120 mph speedo a few times... 😎 This was back in the late 70's. I had that car until around 1985 or so. I "refreshed" the 400 around 1983. I did it with the block still in the car. I replaced all the main and rod bearings and the rings on the original pistons. There was no cylinder ridge, so I just gave it a quick "hone" with a rented honing stone from the parts store. For the heads, I had them gone thru by a shop with new seals and what was considered a basic "valve job" of the time. I replaced the cam and lifters with a Comp Cams "RV" style came. It was meant for lower rpms, but gave it some more low end torque which was fine because I had to keep the 2bbl manifold/carb due to $$. I put a dual exhaust on it too and that gave it the V8 rumble you wanted as a kid! Over all a fun car and held it's own from a stop light.. 🤪 I wanted to get a 429 or 460 for it, but I had to get rid of it due to $$ and moving on with life, but it's always been one I wish I had kept.

[@AutoRestoMod]

Sounds like you had a lot of fun with that car.

[@timewa851]

Had that same car. 2.71 axle & C-6. Those ran to mid 130mph. Mom babied it till it was the 'spare'. : ) '71 still had the proper timing set & compression ratio, That was a GOOD CAR. did I like it? Still remember the plate#: BRJ 343. 400M is not a bad engine. Till Ford neutered/depowered it.

[@buzzwaldron6195]

TMI has the pistons to fix the Ford 400...

[@frankundercuffler8618]

I had a 66 f- 100 Ford pick up with a 351 c under the hood , Some times as a 16/ 17 year old , I thought I had a NASCAR motor .

[@operationoverloard]

Thanks for the tidbit of front-of-block differences. That's the 1 I did not know. The main bore diameters are also different in size between the Cleveland (at 2 ¾") and the 351M/400 (at 3")...provided that view is available. Thanks a bunch. You know the differences and histories and know how to explain it all.

[@johnbehneman1546]

THANK YOU SO MUCH. I AM STILL LEARNING ABOUT FORD MOTORS. I LEARNED A LOT. PLEASE CONTINUE TO SHARE YOUR TRUTH.

[@buzzwaldron6195]

Those aren't "triple valve springs", they're double springs with a stabilizer... watch what you learn from videos here...

[@johnnycapan6566]

As ford needed a replacement during the 70s for the FE. The M designated term was applied because there master parts catalogue had 3X diffrent 351 families... For me M most likely modified 351 of the 400. Reinforced rib , 385 series bell housing and 3" mains journal.. Got one myself will plan going the Tim meyer inspiration build.. 5 speed manual.

[@AutoRestoMod]

Interesting.

[@AmericanThunder]

I'm surprised Ford didn't also refer to the 352 FE as a 351, because it had the same 4" bore x 3.5" stroke as the 351C/W/M. lol.

[@buzzwaldron6195]

@@AmericanThunder - They're also closer to 352"...

[@buzzwaldron6195]

Yes, Ford 400 came first... then modified to 351M to replace 351C discontinued in USA...

[@AmericanThunder]

@ Yup, all 4 x 3.5 engines are 351.86 cubes.

[@hotrodray6802]

🔔😎 Being a Ford mech back then, we referred to the C as a small block, and the M/400 as big blocks, as per mounts and bellhousings.

[@gregoryplummer-l9l]

I went to an estate sale on a farm and thair was a Cleveland short block and a pair of heads with a 4 on each corner they wonted 100 for the head's And I asked about the block I figured that the head's at one time came off the short block thay wonted 300; for it I told them 3 old lady's and one younger one and she seems mouthy thay wonted me to buy it all and I said I would buy the head's but mouthy mead me up set and I in just said thanks anyway and started to walk away the oldest woman said you didn't want me heads I said I was interested but she made me feal like don't know what I'm talking about and I have rebuilt more engines than she can count the told mouthy to get lost and asked me what I would pay she just wanted it gone so didn't have to hail to the dump so I said it's got to be rebuilt that's a lot of money and I can't tell if it's any good she said 200 for heads and block so at that price was fair and I bought them took the pan off to see if it had thrown a rod and found out it lts a 4 bolt main ferther checking it's standerd bore and it's numbers match the head's wail we were loading it I found the 4bb.intake manifold and exzost manifolds and a stick flywheel and a starter got e all except the carb it was probably already sold good prices for a 4 bolt block I didn't take the pan off until I got home

[@AutoRestoMod]

Nice

[@Olds_Pwr]

Of course they were what Ford called 335 series small blocks.

[@AmericanThunder]

If I recall, some early 351M/400 castings did have a SBF bellhousing pattern.

[@AmericanThunder]

@@Olds_Pwr Ford never used the terms small or big block. Ford designated them as 335 series, Windsor series, 385 series, FE series, etc. Terms like SBF, small/big block and so on that most of us use is just accepted slang.

[@chrislj2890]

Had a '70 Mercury Montego MX with a 351 Cleveland and it really ran great. Had a '65 Ford Galaxie with a 352, another nice car. Sure wish I still had my old cars but who was to know.

[@kennethcohagen3539]

When you plug the exhaust heat crossovers on a Mopar 440 you gain 20+ hp. Even though the Cleveland is cold blooded it would help in racing, and in the Desert Southwest it rarely gets cold enough to be a problem.

[@faststang89]

I highly doubt that. Maybe 5hp at best unless you have dyno proof

[@Hjfvvdst]

Great information. Thank you.

[@MFE92]

There was no Ford plant in Midland and there wasn't a 351 plant in Michigan. 351's were from Windsor, ON (canada) or the very different 351 Cleveland from Ohio. So the M did not stand for Midland or Michigan. It stood for Modified, as in 351 Modified, as in, a 400 design that was modified to 351 cubic inches. That's why you see 400/351M in so many parts listings.

[@projectmayhembronco5457]

I agree that the M stands for modified, and the master parts catalog back that up, but Ford did indeed make the 351m at both the Michigan Casting Center in Flat Rock Michigan, and at the Cleveland Foundry.

[@AutoRestoMod]

I tend to agree with the modified statement. But I would really like to see actual documentation of the M standing for modified. The service manuals don't show modified just show the M

[@kaosactual1]

I'm from Ohio. Growing up we called them 351 Windsor and a 351 Cleveland. Although sometimes called the "Windsor" by enthusiasts, Ford never used that designation for the engine line as a whole; it was only adopted well into its run to distinguish the 351 cu in (5.8 L) version from the 351 cu in (5.8 L) "Cleveland" version of the 335-family engine that had the same displacement but a significantly different configuration, and only ever used to refer to that specific engine in service materials. The designations for each were derived from the original locations of manufacture: Windsor, Ontario and Cleveland, Ohio.

[@MFE92]

@@kaosactual1 Correct. The 351M didn't come along until Ford took the 400 and de-stroked it half an inch, creating yet another 351 that isn't a Cleveland and isn't a Windsor, this one being a modified version of the 400, hence 351(Modified)

[@kaosactual1]

@@MFE92 Rodger that. I started to think it was only an Ohio thing. Good to know.

[@HeathKopp]

Double valve springs with a dampener spring there Jeff...

[@HeathKopp]

There were a few 400 blocks that were made that had a dual pattern bellhousing machined from the factory....for either the sbf or 385 series bellhousings.

[@waynepaul9276]

@heathkopp. Please elaborate. It’s been documented that the very early 400 blocks were cast with small block bell housing patterns and the smaller pilot hub size then were subsequently changed to match the big blocks. Dual patterns? That’s new to me and I’m interested in hearing more details

[@JohnDoe-pv2iu]

I've seen a dual pattern bell housing. It scared the Hell out of me. I thought somebodies 1911 went full auto to make all those holes!!! Ford made a lot of crazy stuff in very small lots. I wouldn't doubt the block but GOOD LUCK finding one! Yall Take care. John

[@AutoRestoMod]

You are right. So I might be using them!

[@AutoRestoMod]

Me too.

[@darronmecak5720]

Just for your information in 1973 some 400 blocks had the smallblock bellhousing cast into them they are called the fmx400 and are very rare there is a few pictures of them on the internet,some also have the provison for normal cleveland or windsor engine mount bosses which are not drilled but also feature the normal 3 bolt engine mount,ford was scared they were going to run out of 351c engines for the pantera in 1974 so they cast the 400 block with the normal 351c mount bosses ,but never used them,also not all 400/351m blocks have the rib cast in the top near the china rail,i have a CF foundry block with no rib.

[@shonbratton1906]

TH’s. I read that C4’s AT came N 351M passenger cars with the big block bolt pattern. I taught I’ve seen the back of the tall deck 351M/400 come with both small & big ridge bosses, but only the C6 holes were drilled $ tapped

[@mycontinental3611]

Jeff I also seen them being called 351 Midland 400. Great info. Back in my machine shop days I used charge $100.00 per sleave.

[@JohnDoe-pv2iu]

I paid $125 for a sleeve in Augusta Georgia around 1998. K&P MACHINE was an Augusta shoo that i haven't been to in years. If they're still around, you really couldn't hardly beat them for great work that was reasonably priced. Also Carolina machine or (later)Caroline Machine Engines was also a Top Notch shop in Johnston SC. I used those when I lived in Belvedere, SC. Now, living south of Augusta, I use Hendricks in Statesboro (pretty inexpensive) and Bill Ford( Not as inexpensive 😂) of Screven county, GA. I should say here that I only use shops for boring now. I have a milling machine, Lathe, vertical boring machine, valve grinding machine(and seat/guide cutter) and Magnaflux rig. I do magnaflux and rebuild heads very inexpensively in Burke County, GA. I was told many years ago that Ford used a term (like the Russian and other people of various parts of the world)in manufacturing that was a popular 'buzz word' of that time. MODERNIZED... It seems that in manufacturing of the 60s and 70s, it was hip to have Modernized your old crap. So, like Russia's stamped rifle being called AKM for Modernized AK. The 351M was the Modernized 351. It was probably never in print because, while the term was Cool in manufacturing, it probably would have been looked down on during the Cold War, to call it "Modernized" in America! I guess everyone heard something different but I tend to believe that a "New and Fancy Buzz word" of an era could very well be what they called it! Yall Take Care! -John

[@lilhoss45acp75]

We ran a machine shop for 40 + years, they were all 351/400 Midlands!

[@AutoRestoMod]

Could be man. Bo's machine in Augusta is who I've been using for some of my work locally. Here in the near I'll probably take the block over there in order to get the sleeve done on it.

[@AutoRestoMod]

Interesting.

[@lilhoss45acp75]

@@mycontinental3611 only reason I say this,not being a ford guy, in the teardown room in the back of the shop before cleaning,where most machinist get there start,, I specifically remember on 2 engines, driver side valve cover small white rectangular sticker on the inside towards the intake side, both engines read (315/400 midland). I am not a ford guy,but as a automotive engine machinist, some things you just don't forget!!

[@jonathancross-jm9yu]

Hi Phil great information on the difference between these blocks. If the block is not cracked or over bored, ( no more than .020”) Just sleeve that #5 hole and bore it to .030” it’ll be fine..plus you get to keep the matching numbers block!! We don’t have the problem here in Australia with regard to Cleveland differences as we only had the 302c or 351c based engines. Exactly same blocks just different cranks and rods. Bolt patterns on the rears were identical and both were available to suit Top loaders, Single Rail 4 spd, C4, & FMX Transmissions..super simple down under!!

[@buzzwaldron6195]

Ford 400/351M blocks are taller than Clevelands... rods longer...

[@billhendon1017]

Thanks for sharing

[@terryenyart5838]

Great info! Thank you

[@kaosactual1]

Although sometimes called the "Windsor" by enthusiasts, Ford never used that designation for the engine line as a whole; it was only adopted well into its run to distinguish the 351 cu in (5.8 L) version from the 351 cu in (5.8 L) "Cleveland" version of the 335-family engine that had the same displacement but a significantly different configuration, and only ever used to refer to that specific engine in service materials. The designations for each were derived from the original locations of manufacture: Windsor, Ontario and Cleveland, Ohio.

[@buzzwaldron6195]

And to differentiate from earlier 352 FE with same bore and stroke... and later 351M...

[@patrickmcgoldrick8234]

The quickest way is small block pattern,289-351 Windsor is Cleveland,the 370-460 Bell housing pattern is the 351-400 M,plus the heads are wider apart.

[@craig8187]

There are 400C with small block bellhousing pattern, rare but exist.

[@patrickmcgoldrick8234]

I know,but they are so rare,I did see the point,but you're right. I have seen so many ads on Craigslist auto parts for sale,and there are so many ads that are selling 351C engines, that are 351M,Or 400M,and the 370-460 transmission bolt pattern is the big give away.

[@craig8187]

@@patrickmcgoldrick8234 yes, that's by dar the easy give away

[@patrickmcgoldrick8234]

The easiest way to tell a 351 W from the rest of the small block Fords,if the heads are on,the intake width for 221-302 is 9.5 inches,351W 11 inches, without heads, Flat top of trans bolt pattern late 65 style bolt pattern 289-302 same height as rear intake mount,rear intake mount on 351 two rail casts rise from the two top bolt hole an inch to the rear intake manifold mounting.

[@matthewq4b]

Initially it was Michigan to follow the standard convention of naming after the initial production plant.. But was changed prior to series production to Modified. It is actually listed as the 351 Modified in the parts catalogues. Also the 400 and the 351M block are the same.

[@blakeneysanders4264]

Good information Jeff. Thanks

[@AutoRestoMod]

Thanks, I appreciate it!

[@edwardesty4951]

Ok when the first 400's in 71 came out in a limited number at the beginning of the year they were cast with the small block bell housing pattern and by the end of year they were all the big block pattern

[@charleshollingsworth1583]

Heck i thought i new most all of it, The wall rail on the front of the block i never paid close attn to. The washer peice in the thermost that folks threw away on cleveland which caused them to run hot, don't remember if the M'S had that. In 1973 they state there was a run of 400 blocks that carried the small bell housing pattern, and folks will mistake them for 351 clevelanders. The 73 400 block will have a D3AE-B to confirm it's a small bolt pattern 400 block. Find a 73 galaxie/ltd with a 400 and it might have one. Rare is rare years ago i bought a 68 lincon cont with the 462 MEL 400 dollars for a water pump rare that a tree fell on. Pulled the whole powertrain front to diff and crammed it all into a 78 short swb f-100. The results was a truck that would scare you to death, wicked. Everyone around here wanted it and like a fool i sold it, after the lincoln locker failed in the conti 9 inch rear slinging carnage thru the bed floor and again scared me to death. To you folks not knowing what a lincoln locker is, you take your pops ac/225 doghouse lincoln stick welder(every farmer in the usa had/has one) and weld up the spyder gears to create positive traction. If it decides that your ability to weld up correctly doesn't taste good then all hell breaks loose (think of an exploding clutch taking out a bellhousing). The 462 mel was rated around 340 hp/485 ftlbs tq with a unusual bell housing not compatable with other ford engines, some state older mel's could or Might fit FE pattern. Cleveland heads will fit a modified/michigan,and there is some afternarket for the m's now to get them out of their boat anchor status Shoot me some ford stuff i don't know LOL. Great attilcle/chevy sucks

[@aguyinnc2865]

Some guys can just find all the goodies. Super buy on those heads! So, I just ran out and checked under the hood of my '73 Mach 1, and yes it is a Cleveland. Something that always puzzled me though, it looks like it has a C6 trans. No removable bell housing, no cast iron case. I had a '73 Gran Torino Sport back in the day that had the FMX trans. Always thought of the C6 being used for heavy duty applications. Obviously, my 351C 2V will never strain that C6 unless I start doing engine mods. Had wondered if it was actually a 351M or 400 somebody before me had swapped in. But you answered that question! Still wanting to pull the engine and make some changes, but the piggy bank ain't full yet! Btw if you run across another set of those heads....😁

[@buzzwaldron6195]

If 351M, toss it... difficult to hop up much cheaply... 400 makes monster power with pistons from TMI and Summit or Jegs cam... 351C 2 bbl. heads are better for street power than 4 bbl. heads with horribly shaped ports...

[@RobbieKidd]

I had one in my 73 gran torino. Go big blue!

[@2dooroldford]

Even though 400 isn't "m" to find parts it is best to use 400m as if you just use 400 you will get gm stuff mostly, however typing 400m, will bring up correct ford stuff instantly

[@socalltd]

Correct, 71-74 400's were just that and from 75 up, the 400M was listed for both 351/400 displacements for service items.

[@JohnDoe-pv2iu]

Do you guys know anything about the 351c, 351m.and 400 replacement head? Ford made a single replacement head that was for all three. Are they a decent replacement for 351c 2V heads? Thanks, John

[@AutoRestoMod]

If I do a video that goes deeper into this I will definitely talk about that because there are places when ordering parts that do better with incorrect nomeclature

[@anvilbeater]

Great information great video 🤟🏼🤟🏼🤟🏼🤟🏼

[@petepeabody8905]

I'm not a ford nut, but this is very good simple information

[@durango5.9]

I knew the bell housings were different, but I never knew about the Chinese wall thankyou.

[@JamesBraun-n1p]

Easy way to tell is the fuel pump mounting . On thw windsor the mounting bolts are sde by side much like a chevy , on the cleveland they ae near the top on one side and near the bottom on the other side . One more thing a straight 6 Toyota has the same fuel pump gasket as a chevy V8 .

[@OlysGarage]

Can't say I've heard them called Michigans, but definitely Modifieds or Midlands. The story as I've heard it was the 351M got the 'modified' designation because it was a "modified" 400. Also, for some strange reason in either 71 or '73, there were 400s made with dual bell housing bold patterns, both BBF and SBF.

[@AutoRestoMod]

I've never heard of the Dual bolt pattern on the M that's interesting.

[@OlysGarage]

@AutoRestoMod if you to a web search, there are pictures of it. I believe one of the HP series books talks about it too. I wanna say it was '71, being 1st year.

[@OlysGarage]

@AutoRestoMod oh and also wanted to add, might be a good save to sleeve that 351c. I had a sleeve put in a '73 340 chry block. Was $135 a hole if I remember right. Those blocks are getting harder to find (351c)

[@fredclements6843]

I’ve got all the stuff you’re talking about I been stashing stuff back for my 66 f100 build

[@Grandadsjunk]

Thanks for that my wife has a 351m came with 53 customline she bought

[@alankelly9111]

Are you sure you don't have a set of 1971 Boss 351 heads there? They came from the factory with pushrod guides, screw-in rocker studs and closed chambers.

[@shawncozad8565]

Never see after market cleavland heads the valves are canted. It gives combustion a hemispherical effect

[@Project-gr6zy]

400m + cleveland heads = stroker cleveland Ive known about 335 being the technical designation And i understand the change in bearing sizes, and some other stuff like some (my 78 f350) having thr 460 pattern or my 351m having a sbf pattern Now i call the 400 an M because of a few things Take the crank out of 351m and throw the 400 assembly in and its a 400 Its easier to use M for both the 400 and 351 to keep their designation easier to track Compared to a 400w build My personal take on it

[@csmith9839]

Can someone tell me why they have 351m400 marked on them?

[@buzzwaldron6195]

It's the tall deck engine family... 351M was made from earlier Ford 400 to replace discontinued in USA short deck 351C...

[@matthewq4b]

AFTER the the 351C was canceled the 335 engine family consisted of the 351M and 400 Look at the emissions stickers it says ENGINE FAMILY 351M/400 Starting in 69 Ford grouped engines by their blocks. Engine's that shared the same block were considered the same family. So example in 72 a 429 emission sticker would say ENGINE FAMILY 429/460

[@projectmayhembronco5457]

The Ford master parts catalog refer to the 351 M as a 351 modified.

[@AutoRestoMod]

I would like to see the page where it says that. Not that I disagree with you but I am just curious about that. I wish I had a Ford Master parts catalog. But the cost on those things is so high anymore I can't afford one.

[@projectmayhembronco5457]

@@AutoRestoMod If I could post a pick here I would, but can't do it on KZbin. If you go on Facebook there is a 351m/400 group that it gets posted on regularly.

[@randybenoit9196]

When I worked at Ford's I was in plant 2 in Windsor and they went from the 400 to 351m that meant it was modified

[@brianhalberry]

Then an Aussie mentions the 302 Cleveland and everyone goes nuts! "A what?! There's no such animal!!" Or, "Oh, you mean a Boss 302". Nope. Good video, love your energy.

[@davidjohnmiller4849]

And don’t forget ... there is a number of 351M/400 blocks that have BOTH the large ( 429/460 ) bell housing bolt pattern and the smaller bolt pattern ... they are sometimes referred to as the 335 FMX blocks ... they are rare !

[@timreck5535]

Any idea of what flywheel is need when mating a 351m/400 to a BB ZF5 trans?

[@fordman4287]

Couple hundred bucks for a sleeve and .30 over (that's what my FE cost me to do), which is what you may end up having to do with a replacement block anyway.

[@AutoRestoMod]

That makes sense.

[@kennethnero8963]

what about the 351 W?

[@tomintexas817]

thanks great info for ford heads

[@GeekGinger]

It's strange, because my first car was a 72 Gran Torino with a 351W and C6 combo (which is weird enough) but the 351W was deceased and mechanical know-nothing 16 year old me put in a 400 from a station wagon but as I remember I kept the original C6. I've read many things that say that's not possible and now you corroborate that. I'm sure you're right so I'm wondering what I did way, way back then. It's strange how memory does/doesn't work 😁

[@vrm86gt]

the C6 was available with small block Windsor and big block bell housing so you probably swapped engine and also swapped in the C6 that came with the 400 with it since your car was already setup for C6 that would make sense.

[@DominatorGarage]

The early 400’s were both small and big block pattern could’ve had both.

[@hotrodray6802]

​@@DominatorGarage A few, yes.

[@vrm86gt]

@@DominatorGarage well that would make sense also

[@socalltd]

@@DominatorGarage I have seen late 70's T-birds with both 351M/FMX and 351M /C6 in them in the yards. It's true that some early 400's had a few FMX's behind them.

[@M6T7Y]

I have a 72 CJ block and heads. If you might be interested later. Im in Alabama too. lol.

[@garychuculate6740]

Great information.

[@chrisrye9128]

Race prepped CC heads for only $50?! Stole 'em! Nice find!

[@AutoRestoMod]

Yup. I couldn't run out of that estate sale fast enough.

[@chrisrye9128]

@@AutoRestoMod 😂

[@chrisrye9128]

@@AutoRestoMod My vote, sleeve the block you have if its in good shape otherwise.

[@buzzwaldron6195]

I stumbled across a brand new pair of MoTown Lite 220cc aluminum heads at the Detroit swap meet for $500... hem hawed around for about 1 tenth of a second, paid, and got far away with them... LOL!

[@blueblood76]

springs are double with damper

[@buzzwaldron6195]

Yep...

[@UnapologeticAmerican1776]

Related topic, in my family, there have been knock down drag out arguments, in fact, has caused permanent divisions between family members, over the 352 FE engines. I've owned engines that the block was stamped 352, but was a 390 engine. I've had engines stamped 352, that were 352. But had the older generations in my family tell me the stamps said what the engines are. (I'm 52). I tried to stand my ground and explain certain engine blocks in a certain time frame, all used 352 engine blocks. But we're different c.i. engines. This has honestly drove a big divide in my family to the point we haven't talked for years over it. So, there are a lot of subtle differences in engines. If you don't know what to look for, or do your homework, it can be confusing and misleading. And in my case, cause major issues personally.

[@hotrodray6802]

Most all FE had 352 cast in the block. I had a CJ with 352 cast on the drivers front. But not 427s.

[@UnapologeticAmerican1776]

@hotrodray6802 my point exactly

[@et76039]

I knew of one guy who thought he had a 390 in his '68 Ford, then pulled the engine when someone claimed it was actually a 352. Since 1967 was the last year for a 352, he had probably been misled in the manner described here.

[@UnapologeticAmerican1776]

@et76039 the only true way to know if it's a 352, or a 390, is to measure the stroke. There really is not a sure way to know just from looking. In the guys case your referring to, it's always possible the engine had been swapped out at some point. This was the case in my 65 f-100's I had.

[@et76039]

@@UnapologeticAmerican1776, agree that measuring the stroke is the best way to differentiate. An engine swap in that 1968 car is a possible explanation, but low likelihood. I do recall the 352 as an option in mid-'60s Ford pickups; not sure when it was dropped in favor of the 360. Trying to keep the facts straight on Ford V8 engines is a challenge.

[@timcollins5608]

it is clevland or windsor

[@CK-mf6du]

The early 302 have the same balance as the Cleveland, but the late post 78 or 79 302 have more weight on the flywheel/flex plate. Watch out for that.

[@theEVILone0130]

I don't remember where I heard that the modified blocks were physically different from the Cleveland blocks. But I couldn't tell you how, since I usually am an Alfa Romeo and Maserati mechanic. But I'll know the difference between them now at least. So if I finally decide to get a Gran Torino I'll be able to get the engine i want for it and not get screwed over.

[@buzzwaldron6195]

Block are same except 400 / 351M block is taller with longer rods... intake manifold wider to match...

[@projectmayhembronco5457]

yes the 351c and the 351m/400 are different blocks. The 351m/400 block is based on the Cleveland but has a taller deck and a few other different items.

[@buzzwaldron6195]

@@projectmayhembronco5457 - Yes, 351M/400 uses Cleveland/Boss 302/351heads, but not FE, Windsor, MEL, Boss 429, SOHC, Clevor, or 385 heads...

[@mikelynam3582]

EARLY 400 BLOCKS USED THE WINDSOR BELLHOUSING PATTERN

[@craig8187]

Correct 👍 they still have the 400/385 series casting for bellhousing but have the extra material for the 335 series bellhousing and are drilled according. Some of these particular blocks have the 335 pattern undrilled and the 400/385 pattern is drilled.

[@jesse75]

Some, not all.

[@craig8187]

@@jesse75 correct

[@matthewq4b]

NO they did not and it is NOT the Windsor bellhousing pattern, it is the 6 bolt small block ford bellhosing pattern. Ans SOME 400's got the small block pattern to use up the over stock on small block FMX transmission castings. That is why the are called the 400 FMX block...

[@craig8187]

@@matthewq4b yes the 6 bolt small block bellhousing pattern, that was 1st used on a Windsor after the 5 bolt pattern deceased. The small block pattern used on some 400 was for transmission tunnel room in some models, not to use up small block FMX transmission castings. FMX has a removable bellhousing and there was a 400 pattern bellhousing for the FMX to bolt on to the 'normal' 400 block.

[@EricTheOld]

I still love the 390-401 3 duces

[@davidnonnenmocher5122]

Made a " small block " 400 also

[@buzzwaldron6195]

400 is taller small block... 351M uses same block...

[@matthewq4b]

NO, Ford did make some 400's with the small block 6 bolt bellhousing pattern though..

[@vincenttrotta576]

Great video. Lot's of info here. But what is wrong with your elbows ?

[@daledavies2334]

Then just to confuse the uninnitiated, there was the 351M GMC V6.

[@AutoRestoMod]

Okay now you're meddling LOL

[@terrycarter8929]

The C6 transmission would be a plus if you have room. Next question is how much can you stroke a 400 block? Another question is how much does the 351M/ 400 engine weight compared to a 429/460? What's the physical size difference between the 351M/400 compared to the 429/460? I was told long ago that the 351M was a horrible engine reliability wise. I have no idea but that always has been in the back of my head. Thanx for sharing the extra casting wall up front. I was not aware of that! BTW Drag Boss Garage has new 351C blocks if your interested

[@jesse75]

Problem with the 351M. Same oil system as the Cleveland. In the Cleveland, the oil system was adequate for street usage. But the M has a heavy crank, rods and pistons in comparison. And uses basically the 351 W main bearings. Those bearings were adequate for the W engine, but not the M. The M and 400 get a bad rap for prematurely losing oil pressure, even at 80,000 miles was common. In the 80's, when I had my shop, I came across a few hundred M's with low or no oil pressure. I usually talked my customers into junking the M and replacing it with a W, C, or 460.. Just a plain stock 2 v engine for a Ford pickup is a good engine.

[@buzzwaldron6195]

They were all good engines, but the low HP 351M doesn't have any hyper pistons available on the shelf... convert it to a 400 with 400 crank and pistons and Jegs or Summit cam...

[@chuck_machine]

Just sleeve #5. Sleeves run $150/ea in California, I imagine it's probably cheaper where you are.

[@AutoRestoMod]

I'm going to be taking a set of cylinder heads over to my machine shop today for some other work. I'm going to ask them about sleeving the block

[@conniechamberlain6586]

Cleveland small block bellhousing, midland big block bell housing.

[@buzzwaldron6195]

Well as mentioned over and over above, early 400 had small block bellhousing, at first...

[@matthewq4b]

@@buzzwaldron6195 NOT EARLY Just some did it was to use up a surplus of FMX transmission with the 6 bolt small block pattern. Those 400's are called 400 FMX blocks..

[@uo2230]

I believe there was a 351 M code 4v engine in 1969 which was a Windsor engine. Also an H code 2v lower compression engine. In 1970 the 351's were Cleveland engines. The 1969 351's were a 302 block if memory serves me correctly. The 1969 351 M code was a great engine.

[@buzzwaldron6195]

You're believing all wrong... I got a headache from reading that! To start with there were no 4 bbl. 351M or Ford 400s sold... although a couple were experimented with by Ford... Start over learning about 352, 351W, 351C, and 351M... in that order...

[@matthewq4b]

WRONG the 351M was introduced in 75 to fill the demand for mid displacement V8 as production of the 351W could not meet demand after the cancellation of the 351C in 74. there was NEVER a 4bbl on the 351M, the 400 was never series produced with a 4BBL . There were some 351W 4bbls made in 69

[@uo2230]

Please look it up 1969. I know for a fact the 351 Windsor was available in an H code lower compression 2V or an M code 4V. My brother owns a 69 Mach 1 with an M code 351 4V. I've seen it with my own eyes. It's NOT a Cleveland.

[@matthewq4b]

@@uo2230 Read what you wrote.... " I believe there was a 351M 4v engine in 1969" Go back and edit your post so you are NOT saying there was a 4V 351M in 1969 Try saying there was an M code 4V 351W in 69...

[@markdubois4882]

@@matthewq4b M code 351 is like saying K-code 289 That's to do with the VIN. Just like the M-code 440 in the Dodge Dart in 69.

[@stephenhotzjustdriveit]

The fun details

[@AutoRestoMod]

I dig them

[@cecilandrews7479]

The 400 was built in 71. Its purpose was to replace the 460. The 460 weighs full built around 960 pounds. The 400 is around 560. It was intended to put out around 400 hp and500 pounds of torque. Due to the EPA raising it standards, for redesign to heads and put dish pistons in it to meet the EPA is required standards. In 1975 they raged the standards again. So ford modified the engine by destroking it to a 351 cid. The EPA turned a really good engine into a boat anchor. I have been working on and building them since they first came out. And on a side note using 4 barrel.Heads on a street car is a bad idea. 2 barrel heads make more hp torque for a street car. The 4 barllel heads was engineered for the Lamans. They don't. Really go to work until 7000 rpm's.

[@user-tk4gc9jn3n]

epa are bad for our enviroment

[@timcraven5789]

what about 351w

[@jamesolita1025]

The m an 400 I think has a big block bell housing

[@buzzwaldron6195]

As mentioned over and over above, early 400 had small block bellhousing, at first...

[@matthewq4b]

@@buzzwaldron6195 QUIT POSTING WRONG INFO.... the small block pattern was used in 71 and 73 and BOTH times was to use up a surplus of small block pattern FMX transmission cases. Those 400 are called 400FMX blocks..

[@buzzwaldron6195]

@@matthewq4b - Since the 400 went to '82, obviously those were early 400s... the junk FMX shouldn't have been put behind a 400...

[@matthewq4b]

@@buzzwaldron6195 WTF are you on. The FMX was a solid reliable medium duty transmission and could be built to handle stupid HP it was a drag race darling till the early 80's. You clearly don't know squat.

[@buzzwaldron6195]

@@matthewq4b - The torque of a 400 requires a heavy duty transmission...

[@user-tk4gc9jn3n]

dual valve springs not triple out side spring has a vibration damper not a spring

[@gregbuie8277]

I had a 1970 f150 had 302 and I BUILT A 351C and put it in modified a set if mustang headers it eat 350 chevys for breakfast.

[@jdedmnds1]

The 400 M had a habit of bending push rods. I think it was due to valve guides sticking to the valves. A 400 M with 351 M heads is a good engine.

[@AutoRestoMod]

That's interesting I had not heard that before

[@jesse75]

I've been through a couple hundred M's, never found a bent push rod.

[@jdedmnds1]

@@jesse75 I have seen several 400 Ms with bent and/or broken pushrods. Most of them had some carbon build up internally. Never saw a 351 M with this problem.

[@buzzwaldron6195]

351M, 2 bbl. 351C, and 400 use same heads... although later ones have emissions crap... 4 bbl. 351C heads can be used but had their own problems as was fixed in heads in this video...

[@matthewq4b]

There is no such thing as a 400m...

[@Damo-TheFordGuy]

I have a 1972 cleveland 2 bolt main that I probably won't ever get around to building...

[@jesse75]

Easy, to the right of the distributor the area on the block of a Cleveland is flat, the 351M/400, has a raised part of the block.

[@DominatorGarage]

Have the cylinders sleeved sir. That’s what everyone does now on clevelands

[@sonnymiller1486]

If you can save it, Save It!!!! This getting rarer and more costly everyday.

[@JohnDoe-pv2iu]

And save them all(not just rare)! Whats plentiful today will go away. And that will suck even worse if the replacement is electric!!!!!

[@AutoRestoMod]

Pretty sure that's how I'm going to go

[@DominatorGarage]

@ good deal, Brent Lykins, or meers racing in KY does phenomenal work if you need recommendations, I live about 20 minutes from Meers, if you’re around I’ll buy you lunch

[@pete1342]

I'd have the bores sonic tested for thickness as well before you go putting a lot of money in it.

[@anish-79]

There is also 351 Windsor from the 1960's and 1970's.

[@buzzwaldron6195]

Yes, '68 - '80s?

[@anish-79]

@@buzzwaldron6195 In the 80's possibly in USA. In Australia 351 Cleveland was used in Ford GT HO and 351 Windsor was a cheaper version made for engine swaps.

[@buzzwaldron6195]

@@anish-79 - 351C ended in '74 in USA... replaced by tall deck C block as 400 and then 351M... until '82... the 351W lived into 1997 in USA Ford trucks... some later SUVs and Mustang Rs 351Ws got the hyper GTX or GT40 heads... (Ford flathead V8s lived into the 1980s in German Ford trucks)

[@markdubois4882]

1969-1997

[@psychoholicslag4801]

Look for the rib. No need to measure to tell the difference between 400/351M and Cleveland blocks. Ford only ever called it Modified because it was not a 400 which was never called an M. It was referred to as Modified because it was a 400 block with a crank and pistons Modified to be a 351 instead of a 400 and to distinguish it from the Windsor in parts and reference literature. I have a pair of actual 351M, with the M cast on the corner of the, heads. They were usually put on warranty work engines and have revised coolant jackets around the exhaust valve in the port. All shop manuals and advertising I've seen only ever called it Modified.

[@AutoRestoMod]

I have a set of Ford 1975 shop manuals, and it does not refer to it as a modified only as M.

[@craig8187]

​@@AutoRestoMod amd typically as a lower case m! 😂

[@davidjohnmiller4849]

The forge casting plant that made the 351M/400 ( both blocks are identical ) was in Midland Ohio ...hence the cast “M” . As the 351 Cleveland was cast in Cleveland Ohio and the 351 Windsor was cast in Windsor Ontario Canada

[@psychoholicslag4801]

​@@davidjohnmiller4849the 400 was first cast in Cleveland and in 1975 the were cast in Michigan.

[@jamessharp9790]

Yes , we get that clarification any time these engines are spoke of. Much maligned previously, but I’m seeing some being built now

[@johnhenry1395]

Thanks!

[@AutoRestoMod]

You’re welcome!

[@JosephCowen-fz8vj]

As an Australian who has built and worked on Cleveland's for decades as they were pretty much the only Ford V8 in Australia from 1971 to the final ones in F100 to F350's in 1986 , 15 year production run of both 302 Cleveland and 351 Cleveland ( same block cast at the Ford Australia Geelong Casting Centre ) they have GF casting notation on the block .And incorrect , M in the tall deck 351 M by common sense and Ford itself stands for Modified because it is a Modified 400 by using a 351Windsor crank ( yes if you want to get technical is machined very slightly different on the snout for a 400 style damper, but same 351W casting number so same casting) Ford needed many motors of around 351 ci at that mid 1970s and the Windsor 351 couldn't keep up , because the 400 shares bore spacing and main journal diameter with the 351 W it was simple to " Modify" a 400 to make a 351M, and it was cast with the 400 at Midland Casting Centre ! It was popular in the 1980s before cheap aftermarket cranks to go the other way and install a 400 crank in a 351W .030 over bore , forged pistons , 302 Cleveland closed chamber heads from Australia, use a nice cam and Clevor Australian intake and get a 408 ci Boss style engine with almost all factory Ford parts ! Some 400 and 351M blocks were cast with small block bellhousing pattern they are called FMX blocks , a small amount good luck finding one . As for the 400 I never understood why people ran them down so much , in reality it's just a tall deck Cleveland and anytime you can get a longer rod and more stroke is a good thing . Sure intake width is a minor problem , but today just take a set of intake manifold gaskets down to a local metal shop and get them to Lazer cut a piece of 1/2 inch steel in the shape of the gaskets and that's the exact size you need to make spacer plates for a 351C intake on a 400 , google a 302/351Cleveland Australian intake , they are all four barrel but 2V port sizes that match the 400 head ports , or go all out and get a set of Aussie 302 Cleveland closed chamber 2V heads , just installing them on a smog motor with factory dish pistons gives instant 10.5 to 1 compression and 50 + HP instant increase . ( Don't say hard to get in US , google an Aussie wrecking yard , good used set $300 and $150 freight to US and that's Australian.$ that's about $300 US $ total to your door in US ) But back to the 400 , people hate it , but why , people love the Ford 300 straight six , but it's the same dimensions, 4 inch bore X 4 inch stroke , same pistons, rods, bareings , just 2 less cylinders.

[@markdubois4882]

The 300 I6 was indestructable whereas the 400M was garbage. If you ask me which of the 400 cube V8s I'd go with, I'd take Chrysler's, which was a bored out 383.

[@JosephCowen-fz8vj]

@markdubois4882 yes I agree the B 400 Chrysler is a good motor because of that massive bore and relatively short stroke . But again what's your point on the 400 Ford , all these people say " oh it's a pile of crap with no supporting design point why ? " As stated it has exactly the same internal dimensions as the 300 , same bore same stroke , it uses same rods and pistons , it's just two more cylinders if exactly the same design , and it's a tall deck Cleveland, as any engine builder knows , any time you can get more deck height gives you better rod angularly, more room for a longer rod . Better overall . The only down side is it was a smog motor , well that's just cam and heads , pick a good Cleveland cam , set of Cleveland headers , 4 barrel Cleveland intake with two 1/2 inch spacer plates each side and a set of 302 Cleveland closed chamber Aussie heads and you got another 150 HP over stock with just that . Just bolting a set of 302 Cleveland heads on a smog 351C gives 10.5 to 1 compression with dish pistons and instant 50 HP increase , I'm saying it would do the same on a smog 400 or more, bolt straight on . And don't say hard to get in the US , eBay or Google an Aussie wrecking yard plenty of cheap good sets of 302 C heads still available , Australia produced Clevelands in 302 C and 351 C from 1971 to 1986 , they were everywhere . And freight cheap .

[@markdubois4882]

@@JosephCowen-fz8vj sure....a lot of the internals are interchangeable between the two motors, but the 300 I6 is in the same category as the slant 6 in terms of reliability. Those two motors do not die. Think the 7.3 power stroke and the 12 valve Cummins. The 400 Ford like the 351 Michigan is junk. The 400 only had 161 HP whereas the 351M only had 148. So now you know they were also gutless wonders. Not a good sign when a Chrysler 318 can put out similar power.

[@JosephCowen-fz8vj]

@markdubois4882 yes I agree the inline six has one advantage the perfect balance , but it's not just internal parts , they have exactly the same design , 4 inch bore x4 inch stroke , and the 400 was only slack on power because it was made that way , retarded peanut cam , pellet cat converter , two barrel carbie , bad ignition timing for emissions , non of that is due to basic engine design as it's the exact same design as the 351 Cleveland just 3/4 inch taller deck . Plus that's nett HP in the mid 1970s add 70 to be the same as gross pre 1976 HP. And you referred to the 351 Modified , same but it's just a 400 modified with a 351Windsor crank . Same bore spacing and bareing diameter as 351 W so Ford just modified the 400 with the 351W crank and made the 351M , but yes sixes are great , here in Australia we evolved the 144 ci Falcon Six that came out originally in 1960 into the Barra 24 valve DOHC Turbo 4.0 litre six and was still in production in 2017 in the Australian Falcon , the two engine options were Barra Six turbo or Coyote 5.0 supercharged in the same falcon , both available with a six speed manual rear drive . But even Chrysler Australia had killer six's in the 1970s/80s the 265 ci Hemi Six cylinder was available in Australian Chargers in six pack , with 3 Weber 45 DCOE's side draught carbies , factory stock 305 HP but they were tested in the 1970s and all produced over 365 HP . They beat the 340 LA V8 available in the same cars .

[@joshuahabeger-jj9cp]

I believe that neither the 351m or 400 came in 4 barrel. If someone could confirm that for me, that would be great. I'm a FE guy 335s and 385s are a mystery to me. Thanks in advance.

[@vrm86gt]

i think your right pretty sure they were all 2 bbl

[@normanchristensen783]

I believe the police issue was a 4 barrel

[@hotrodray6802]

There were some 4bbl. My friend bought new a 4wd F150 short box that had a 400/4 bbl. New. Only one that I've ever seen.

[@vrm86gt]

@@hotrodray6802 nice, probably pretty rare too.

[@vrm86gt]

@@normanchristensen783 didnt know there was a Police 400, going to check that out.

[@sacooper802]

i have 1973 mustang with a 351c with c6 transmission, your not accurate. c6 was standard auto tranny for 1973. 351m not produced until 1975?

[@gregbuie8277]

351m is from montreal,canada

[@turbojoe9554]

tall deck 351c

[@4thGloryMonday]

ever hear of the 351m referred to as the windsor?

[@hotrodray6802]

Nope, but in the 70s we referred to the C as a small block, and the M as a big block... Mounts and bellhousings.

[@AutoRestoMod]

No.

[@kaosactual1]

Yes I have.

[@buzzwaldron6195]

I read a comment above so wrong about everything it gave me a headache! LOL!

[@kennymcquinkiss8292]

Try to give you a thumbs up but KZbin wouldn't let me. I don't know why

[@johnwesner3935]

The 351M carries the "Michigan" foundry mark. The 351M shares everything with the 400 except crank and pistons. The 361M pistons are clearly marked, 351M. I quite recently got a core engine that had no history so I had to do a little research to figure out what I had. After tear down it was a good candidate for rebuilding and I did!😊 It's now quite happy in my 64 F100 resto-mod- survivor.

[@buzzwaldron6195]

M more likely for Modified... or Midland...

[@Ford_Falcon]

Im aussie here its 302 or 351 how tell them apart 351 distributor goes into intake manifold and 302 distributor goes into block and how tell if cleveland or windsor is rocker cover/valve cover 1 is 8 bolt 1 is 6 bolt also shape cover 1 square 1 isnt

[@hotrodray6802]

M, 400, 429,460 use the same distributor.

[@johnnycapan6566]

Only FE Motors go through the intake manifold.. not windsor or clevo. You're thinking of thermostat water running through the windsors intake.

[@bowez9]

That would be s C6, E4OD/4R100

[@charleskyser962]

351 m a 400 with 351w crank 3inch mains

[@jdedmnds1]

351 M had soft cranks and they would eat bearings very fast. If you want to build a 351 M you need to get an aftermarket crank, otherwise they are garbage.

[@AutoRestoMod]

Ineresting.

[@projectmayhembronco5457]

Put a 400 crank into it, problem solved. Plus you get an extra 50 cubic inches. Win - win.

[@jesse75]

Your statement is very true. And the 400 crank isn't any better. The problem is worse if you use a clevite 77 bearing, they are harder and eat the crank sooner. The cranks, rods and pistons are just too heavy with a barely adequate oil system.

[@jdedmnds1]

@@projectmayhembronco5457 I am not sure that is the solution. Aftermarket crank is the best solution.

[@matthewq4b]

You don't build a 351M you drop a 400 crank in it and build a 400... The 351M is only good for turning in to a 400.

[@jesse75]

Little known fact. The 71 400 had flat tops.

[@timewa851]

everyone giggles about the 400. but before Ford corked it up, the 70-71 was not the miserable later smog engine it became. Timing not retarded, decent heads. Not a screamer. Just a beast for 4x4 or a LTD.

[@buzzwaldron6195]

New '70 Ford 400 (actually 402"), '69 Chev. SBC 400 (actually 401") & BBC 396 (actually 402") all rated 265 HP with 2 bbl. carb...

[@buzzwaldron6195]

@@timewa851 - Push a car to 130 MPH!

[@gregbuie8277]

a 460 fits where a 351m or 400m in.

[@fomoco85]

351 midland

[@projectmayhembronco5457]

according to the Ford master parts catalog it a 351 modified.

[@pete1342]

I worked at a Ford dealership when those were new, and never heard of a 351M referred to as anything but a modified. The only differences between an M and a 400 are the wrist pin height in the pistons and the crankshaft stroke. Early 400's were cast in 2 different plants, and one had a bad habit of cracking the water jacket open right above the lifters, just about full length. I can't remember how many blocks I replaced under warranty, but a lot. So if you ever run into a 400 block with a bunch of little X's in the casting above the lifter bores, throw it in the scrap.

[@matthewq4b]

@@pete1342 Those X's are there to add metal to the casting to PREVENT cracking. THOSE block are typically heavier and thicker than the other blocks and are the ones to keep.

[@pete1342]

@@matthewq4b You really shouldn't comment on things you have no experience with. There was Ford TSB on those blocks. Most didn't make it past 2000 miles. Some didn't make it to 100.

[@matthewq4b]

@@pete1342 Nice try I spent over 40 years as a Powertrain engineer with Ford those X's are used on ANY casting that was found to have thin spots they are used to to identify castings that have have the core mold modified were additional material has been added. So go give us the year and the TSB number saying those block are defective I DARE YA...

[@G55-j9z]

It does not look like a Cleveland the Inlet ports are wrong

[@johnbehneman1546]

FORD MOTORS 101

[@chrisjarvis4449]

m for midland

[@projectmayhembronco5457]

M is for modified according to Ford master parts catalog. These engines were made in Cleveland and Flat Rock Michigan, never in Midland.

[@LEETIGER-v8y]

That's not a triple spring it's a double spring with the damper

[@ldnwholesale8552]

302 351C are the same block, different crank and rods. 351 400M are the same block. different crank and rods. Block is about an inch taller than Clevo. And has 3" mains. And big block engine mounts. Cam, rod bearings, gaskets, heads all interchange but be carefull as 400s have bigger chambers. Most but not all have C6 bolt pattern but not all. Some used FMXs so had the Clevo bolt pattern. Those ofcourse were car engines and maybe Broncos. Ford had several 4x3.5" engines. FE, Windsor, Clevo and M engine. FEs were labelled 352 I guess because most of those engines ended in 2. 252, 272, 292, 332, 352 etc. C & M engines are all 335 engines. Intake rails are an inch higher also. Thee was NEVER any 400 4bbls, all 2 bbls. Edelbrock does make aftermarket Performers for early and later smog engines.Even 20 years ago when I bought mine they were thin on the ground. But ideal for my near stock engine. And more economical as well.

[@brianhalberry]

"302 351C are the same block" - Do you mean a 302 Windsor or a 302 Cleveland?

[@projectmayhembronco5457]

The 351m and 400 use the same rods, just different crank and pistons. Also the 351 m and 400 heads are identical. Ford did make a 4 barrel intake for the 400, but as far as I know it never made into a production car. They do pop up for sale now and again.

[@matthewq4b]

@@brianhalberry There no such thing as a 302 Windosr. The 302 Winsor never went in to production and was test mule only..

[@matthewq4b]

@@projectmayhembronco5457 Correct the 400 4 BBL intake never went in to series production. But a pile of them were made for certification and testing. The 4bbl 400 was planned but was canceled just prior to series production. The upcoming smog requirements killed it from going in to production. That is also what killed the 4 bbl 351w

[@brianhalberry]

@@matthewq4b I completely agree, there are no 302 Windosr or 302 Winsor engines. However, the 302 Windsor engine exists. Ford doesn't officially use that descriptor, but ALMOST every other person on the planet who wants to discuss the small block Ford V8 says "Windsor". Even for Mexican blocks. This bothers some, but the rest of us are happy to use it as a generic name for these. You don't need to accept it or use that term, but I can tell you that you are swimming against the tide in trying to change it.

[@jamothegreat6052]

I heard "M" ment Milpitas. I could be wrong.

[@breyn9766]

Don’t ever run a Cleveland without a thermostat. The water won’t flow through the block. You’ll regret the results if you do.

[@l.j.r.8448]

Get a Windsor block.

[@zippydooda563]

The M stands for mediocre. It was a compromise from the start.