351 Cleveland Block Prep and sorting thru our Hoarder parts!

Welcome Back Guys! I'm very excited to started getting into this Cleveland 351 engine. In this episode I prep the block to encourage better oil flow and for the new oil filter adapter and freeze plugs I picked up from TMeyer. I also take a look at some of the options I have for heads from the hoarder barn find. Do you have any Cleveland stories? Any advice for me, I would love to hear it!
www.tmeyer.com

[@lonniemonroe2714]

I've never seen a closed chamber 2-V Cleveland head. All heads to my knowledge marked 2-V were open chamber. The Aussie heada are different but have no markings .

[@builtmikesway1167]

that's good to know I'll have to look into that. I mite have a set of Aussie heads then. Thanks for watching and taking the time to comment I appreciate it very much

[@roberthirshfield3571]

Aussie heads start off ard1 ae cast number

[@stansdds]

MCC cast into a head or block does not mean Windsor Modified, it indicates it was made at the Dearborn, Michigan Casting Center. CF indicates it was made at the Cleveland Foundry in Ohio. The big thing about the casting centers involves the 351M/400 blocks made at the Michigan foundry. The MCC 351M/400 blocks cast before March 1977 had a flaw that caused them to crack the water jacket in the area above the lifter valley.

[@builtmikesway1167]

Thanks I appreciate the information, and thanks for watching. Hope you have awesome weekend.

[@randalltufts3321]

The cast 4v heads are literally awesome and unbeatable for flow. The canted valves and huge intake and exhaust ports made for incredible power and torque. Use the newer valve keepers made for these. Ive built several over the years and they never disappoint. The crank and 4 bolt main block is an excellent starting point. The right piston and rod combo will get you in the compression range your looking for. Good luck on the build. Measure, measure, measure.

[@builtmikesway1167]

Thanks I really appreciate it

[@michaelgiglio1571]

Hey Mike, best engine we ever had in AU. Iv been rockin clevo,s for 30 years. Use the closed 2V,s with a port cleanup and the oil divirt to the back but dont use the restricters. Give it as much lift as your springs will take and 230 to 246 at 50 duation for good street tourqe all the way. Mad mick

[@builtmikesway1167]

Thanks I appreciate it and thanks for watching

[@michaelgiglio1571]

@@builtmikesway1167 One ather thing dood, On any 351, make shore you use fully grooved main bearings. Hey keep the show going. 💪

[@randalltufts3321]

​@@builtmikesway1167if you plan on running boost at any point. Gapping the rings properly and running the 4V HEADS due to the huge improvement in flow makes them the best choice. I've tried both with the Garrett turbo and hands down the 4v outperform the tiny 2v by almost 40%. After 30 years in ford restoration I've learned the hard way

[@MsKatjie]

@@randalltufts3321 A valid point. Boost and 4V' s. Only way to go!

[@MsKatjie]

Good day. Watching this again and if one may ,a few things, please. I am from Oz and Clevos were cast here for 10 years after U.S. production ceased. All we had. Most were passenger cars with 2V open heads. But we had a destocked 302, as in 3" stroke. They had closed chamber 2V.s. Gold, put 4V valves in and on a 351 and Av Gas and 11 to 1! However my 2 cents relates to oiling. One check out Drag Boss Garage: a wealth of info. Trust me , fully grooved mains with studs. Even if you buy two sets. We never had four bolt blocks. Old mate reckons if you want more 600hp, cement the block about half. Tim has a vid about it. { DBG } Not Mr. Meyer. I done everything wrong with my heads. It boiled down to savaging the throat near the valves seats. Thinking more is better, I destroyed the velocity enhancement with the correct 90% of throat diameter to the valve size. Gouged out around the pushrod bulges in the intake , generally causing havoc. And still they worked;. A chap from New Zealand, put out a very interesting vid, about Clevland oiling. He points out rightly, that many other engines have similar non priority main oiled. Basically Clevos, pump out a stock pan dry. Not enough oil and shit return. Plus going further the design of the valve or rocker covers, allows oil to build up and cool the valve springs . Ford knew people would rev this things to the moon. Hope this all makes some sense. It's late and one is wacked. good luck.

[@builtmikesway1167]

Thanks I really appreciate it, I watch a ton of Drag Boss Garage and I'm already talking to Mr. Meyers. I'm just getting information together and buying parts when I can. Thanks for writing and watching, have a awesome day.

[@michaelgiglio1571]

Yes fully grooved mains and a big sump, but the real prob is the oil clock timing in the crank. No oil pressure when the piston starts to go down, this is why we need those bearings. Hey I watch Dragboss every night regardless. Amen. Madmick

[@kurtvara4918]

Ya we use to put the 289 connecting rods in the 302's then run cleveland heads, with canted pistons to match up the heads. But when I was doing those motors we used a Yates intake but now a bunch of folks are making the intakes for what they call a Clevor motor but back in the 70's and 80's we called them Mexican style Boss Motors. But those motor just rip, loved them.

[@MsKatjie]

@@michaelgiglio1571 Too right, so I watched! Why they do that?

[@nickbellinger1047]

i'm building a 302 it's sitting right here beside me and now i think i'll clean up in the valley, thanks for the info, ps the numbers on the heads are 1 and 3 ....lol closed chamber 4v

[@builtmikesway1167]

Thanks for watching and the information. Do it clean the valley up and do the red paint too. It helps a lot! Hope you have a wonderful day and good luck.

[@jesseduke694]

Those bosses on the block are locators from the factory. Our machine shops we use to remachine these blocks don't use them for location. They only used them at the factory. If they are in your way you can literally cut them right off. One of my pickups that I have a 460 set up in, with the engine mnts & headers I use, on one side one of those bosses sticking out from the block prevents me from being able to fit the header without needing to tilt the engine. So I've learned whatever engine I have, before it goes in, I cut them bosses right off! Saves me alot of headache fitting up my headers.

[@builtmikesway1167]

Good to know thanks

[@darrenharvey6084]

Ford Australia also built the Cleveland in 302 cubic inches .

[@builtmikesway1167]

That's awesome I believe they called it a 302 Boss in the US. Thanks for watching I appreciate it.

[@nickbellinger1047]

@@builtmikesway1167 i'm building a 302 it's sitting right here beside me and now i think i'll clean up in the valley, thanks for the info, ps the numbers on the heads are 1 and 3 ...lol

[@danonoveh8114]

I love your video dude, I built a couple 351Cs back in the 80s I never did any mods like your showing, iam in the process of building a serious 377 or 393cleveland with 13.0 compression and Isky solid rollercam and I will be doing the mods you are showing forsure,but iam building this mill slowly a little at a time Thanx a million my friend.

[@builtmikesway1167]

I appreciate that a lot, sounds like a bad ass motor your building. Thanks for watching and I'll have a new video out soon on the 34 and the 351 Cleveland. Have a awesome day

[@danielwilson6665]

A 408 stroker would cost about the same as the 393. The additional displacement over a 377 would increase torque substantially at lower engine rpm’s. The extra cubic inches would require more intake flow and allow the 4 barrel heads to work more efficiently and make the high rpm power they were designed for. Especially when using a solid roller cam and roller rockers designed for higher rpm’s.

[@MrJustus152]

The problem with the Cleveland isn't the oiling system It's a drain back problem in the heads. The oil has to run uphill to run into the valley. Ford made them that way to keep valve springs cool. My dad worked for Bud Moore 40 years ago and they tried everything under the sun to solve oiling problems. When running the heads can hold 2 quarts of oil in each head leaving less than a quart in the pan.

[@builtmikesway1167]

Thanks for the information, I'd really love to hear more. I really wanna build the engine right. I plan on putting some miles and boost to it. Frank do you have photos or videos I'd love to do a special on it. I love the Cleveland engine and would like for it to live on. I really appreciate you comment and I wanna talk more. Have a awesome day and can't wait to hear more.

[@jesse75]

Two quarts in each head ? If that were to happen valve guides would flood and engine would smoke like mad.

[@danielwilson6665]

I’ve heard about the problem that some people seem to have with several quarts of oil under the valve covers leaving the oil pan sump nearly empty. Very strange for sure. Fortunately it’s never been a problem for me. But if or when it does happen , I would highly suggest getting a good aftermarket street/ strip style Milodon oil pan or one similar to it. I have two designs for Clevelands. The one for my well modified engine with vintage Pro Stock iron high port racing heads is part number 30927. It’s a low profile front sump with oil control baffles. It holds 8 quarts of oil and has clearance inside for 4.100” stroker cranks. It has the traditional Milodon gold irridite finish which I think looks pretty good. The 8 quart capacity is enough to leave a gallon and a half up top for the springs to swim in and have 2 quarts in the pan to keep the 18355 pickup happy. The 32220 windage will keep power robbing oil away from the crank when high rpm’s causes everything to get weird inside the crankcase. The other Milodon also holds 8 quarts but I don’t think I will ever need it. It’s a rear sump but I can’t remember if it’s for a Fox body or a Ford 1878 and up 2/4 Wheel drive Pickup truck and Bronco. I don’t plan on ever owning either vehicle so it’s for sale and includes the correct pickup assembly. 🏁

[@jeffsnyder2051]

i saw a really good video on the oiling subject of clevelands , alot of oil gets damed up in the heads in the back by the valve springs.he put valve covers with the tops cut off for a demo,it dosent drain back very well so there isnt enough left in the pan.!! the channel is CRD NZ.

[@builtmikesway1167]

Thanks I'll have to check it out, hope you have a great day.

[@johnelliott7375]

Congratulations on your new family member! God bless you all and enjoy your morning!

[@TheOverisel]

The Cleveland was legendary for it's high revving large port closed chamber head configuration. Bigger than the big block Chevy. Build it with the close chamber huge valve heads. I'd use a small plenum single plane intake manifold. No idle to 5500 rpm stuff here this is a 351 Cleveland!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[@builtmikesway1167]

Thanks for the advice. I was thinking single plane intake too, I've heard the Cleveland love em. Stick around and keep watch, it's going to be a fun one. Have a awesome day

[@TheOverisel]

@@builtmikesway1167 hey your welcome. What makes the Cleveland special are those high flow closed chamber heads. If one wants a powerband of idle to 5500/6000 RPM a Windsor can do that. Clevelands with the good heads big big cam and a Torker or Victor intake manifold is where it's at!!!!! Probably the most underestimated and misunderstood engine in history.

[@MsKatjie]

@@TheOverisel Agreed 100%. Bought a tunnel the other day!. A barrel for each pot!. Nice.

[@bigbosshoss8148]

badass i got 4v closed chamber heads but my block only 2 bolt main can't wait to see what you end up doing!

[@builtmikesway1167]

Thanks I appreciate ALOT. It's going to be a fun one! Have a awesome day

[@danonoveh8114]

2bolt blocks are just as good as 4bolt blocks, the only ones that are better are some Aussie blocks, nascar pillow blocks ,and a couple more I can't think of now😅

[@hegonefishing9122]

I run a 4 bolt main cleveland in my 72, but i also have a standard bore 2 bolt block and 4v closed chamber heads as spares.

[@builtmikesway1167]

Very cool, I plan on test a few combos on this one. Thanks for watching

[@kurtvara4918]

Drill a hole in the Oil Plug behind the timming chain or timming gear that will help to ensure it gets lubricated, Clevelands had a problem with that. Also if you smooth out the lifter valley with a grinder, that will also help to keep the Valley from cracking which Clevelands are nortorious for doing. Crane makes guide plates for the 2V heads as well and they work pretty good and that way you don't have to grind down the pedastools to run guide plates. I did grind mine down and put in screw in studs for the roller rockers. Those pressed in studs will pull out at higher RPM's and I am running 4V heads, but if it was a daily driver I would run the 2V head. But if you are gonna use it for racing I would get a after market set or AFR's or Trick flow with raised ports and run their Intake to match them raised ports up. That is the way I am gonna go, not to far in the future along with the Jessel Roller Rocker set up. Those new aftermarket heads flow so much better then even the very best Factory Cleveland Heads do.

[@builtmikesway1167]

Great information I appreciate it, I'll have to look into the timing chain plug sound good tho. I forsure doing a set of new heads

[@kurtvara4918]

Ya I didn't know about drilling a small hole in the oil plug till about a year or so ago, And I used to build the old Mexican style Boss Motors with Yates parts way back in the late 70's and early 80's. Those motors are called Clevor Motor's today. Back then Yates was the only one doing the thing with installing the Cleveland heads on a Winsor Block, he was also the only one building intakes for them too. Them little motors screamed though, if they had made these after market heads that they make today, Oh my god no one would have stood a chance, those High port design is a game changer, the air shoots straite thru and the valves are almost above each other instead of side by side. It was not hard to put new after market Rods ( 289 Length Rods) in a 302 block with Cleveland heads and make it turn almost 10,000 RPM's. They just screamed. Yates was for sure the man even back then.

[@cammontreuil7509]

Stop spreading myths.

[@thefreezezone4583]

boosting the 351C, 4v heads all the way

[@builtmikesway1167]

I agree thanks for watching, have a great weekend.

[@invoxicated]

Don't forget to paint all the surfaces that come in contact with Glyptal red engine enamel paint. Seals uneven surfaces in engine castings to improve oil circulation.

[@builtmikesway1167]

Thanks for the advice, already planned on it. Thanks for watching and commenting. Have a great day.

[@albertgaspar627]

respectfully, the paint isn't doing anything about uneven surfaces--it lays down flat. run your hand over it, and you'll find the surface is still rough--so there's still "Valleys" for the oil to get into. it may insulate the cast iron, which keeps the oil from shedding the heat it needs to avoid breakdown. plus there's the crankshaft and piston skirts and cylinder heads, no one paints those but they'd offer the same issues to oil passing over their surfaces. considering how much we have to clean a block just to get the paint to stick, it likely does nothing about casting sand left over from cores used in forming the block, too. if painting worked so well, we'd probably see every automaker doing it to save on warranty claims. but for those who want to do it, remember to clean with brushes and degreaser, then heat the metal up to wick the condensation out of it and then paint as much of the engine as you can for maximum benefit.

[@roostingthe6520]

Please don't paint the inside. I own a automotive machine shop. That paint thing is for old people. Take the valley of the block and get it wet with oil in one spot. Then take a quart of oil and pour it on that wet spot and you'll see how fast it returns. The oil runs on the other oil. It hauls ass! The paint comes off I don't care who did it, what kind,how it was prepared. It all ends up in the oil pan and pickup eventually. I been doing engines since 95. That paint is gay.

[@roostingthe6520]

Use the restrictor kit. All of it.

[@roostingthe6520]

Way cool car!!

[@rono3045]

All you got to do is run a 9 quart oil pan and there you go you don't have to worry about that oil getting back to the pan it's already got plenty in it, and if you're going to boost it get19 70 castings 2v open chambered heads port them and have 10,000 shaved off the deck and stiff springs. That's what I run it's the ultimate Street strip motor. Lunati boss cam 505

[@builtmikesway1167]

That's great information, I plan on building a few different Clevelands. Thanks for watching.

[@MsKatjie]

Open???!!!

[@rono3045]

@@MsKatjie yes they're open chambered

[@danielwilson6665]

The dot beside the 2 or 4 has absolutely nothing to do with the combustion chamber design. ALL 2 barrel Cleveland heads cast here in the States have the open combustion chamber design. The Australian 2-V heads have the desirable closed (quench) chamber design and can be identified by the casting number that starts with “AR” along with the common part number. The open chamber heads have a serious detonation problem when used for performance builds with increased compression. You would be much better off by using 4-V quench chamber heads. Some builders use the open chamber heads along with forced induction because the larger chamber has a lower static compression ratio but I don’t know how well they work. Clevelands are unique for many reasons. Try doing a little research first. You’ll be amazed at what you learn 🏁.

[@builtmikesway1167]

Good to know thanks for the information, seem like every week I get a little more information I didn't have. Thanks for taking the time to watch and comment. I appreciate it very much, have a awesome weekend

[@cammontreuil7509]

You read too many books. People like you spread old myths.

[@danielwilson6665]

@@cammontreuil7509 If you’re referring to my comment, perhaps you should read it again because you missed the whole point. There’s way too much misinformation and old myths being spread online. Books written by experienced authors generally contain accurate information. Unfortunately the one written by George Reid has a couple of inaccurate details about Clevelands but overall it’s pretty good reference material. My comments are based on my own 42 years of working with street and strip Clevelands. If you would please be more specific about what you think is so inaccurate or misleading about my comment , I will gladly correct it and give you credit for getting my mind right. Hell man, everyone makes mistakes. If you’re a loser making random comments about shit you know nothing about, I suggest you find someone else to fuck with on the virtual assholes site. They welcome your type ✌🏻.

[@desireecosgrove6527]

I would definitely use the oil restricters. Cleveland’s don’t oil the bottom end as well as the windsors.

[@builtmikesway1167]

Thanks I appreciate the advice

[@jesse75]

For street used they are not needed.

[@michaelgiglio1571]

Hey man, I need to solve a myth. As far as oiling. Don't ever use restrictors on these engines. It not the block. Cleveland's actually have the best oil system, the mains get a direct hit on the first pass. Its the oil clock timing in the crank. All they need is fully groove main bearings and a good sump. This is a priority main, have a look the block and the crank. The wurst engine for oiling is the chev were the crank is last after traveling twice the distance in a smaller gal. Mike

[@michaelgiglio1571]

I must say, Cleveland's have the best oil system, the main get priority from the large first gallery before the cam bearings. It's the crankshaft, We need to use fully grooved bearings, and the ticking noise is from the left side lifters. Run a line to the back and open the crossover point at the no 5 main bearing. Mike

[@brandonrobertson6327]

​@@builtmikesway1167Better run a 7 qts or larger oil pan. Those Cleveland's pump nearly 2 qts per head at sustained high rpm. So if you are running a standard 5 qt pan, you will not have enough oil and will dry lock you oil pump when it creates vacuum with no oil. I would also say if you use oil restriction, you are just treating the problem instead of correcting the problem. Personally, I would not run restrictions on the oil system. Running a standard oil pump would be plenty and a windage tray will go a long ways with the block mods you made for the oil return. Also, thos 351M heads are nothing more than a 2 barrel Cleveland head in the open chamber configuration. Those only have that designation because of the sister plant that manufactured the 351M and the 400's. That head was used both on the 351M and the 400.

[@hubertfruzia1803]

Up grade your valve springs.

[@builtmikesway1167]

100% thanks for watching

[@michaelgiglio1571]

Make shore to use fullygroove main bearing i

[@builtmikesway1167]

100% I appreciate you watching and commenting on the 351 Cleveland. Have a awesome day

[@MsKatjie]

Go 4V quench. I have had a few of them but never the 4Vs. I bought a set of new , old castings. Do your self a favour. The Tim Meyer oil mods are choice.

[@builtmikesway1167]

Thanks and yes I'll be doing Tim Meyer stuff on a video very soon

[@mitchellmerrill8459]

Stroke it.

[@builtmikesway1167]

I'm planning on it! Thanks for watching

[@michaellewis7117]

I am looking for a set of 351C Aussie heads.

[@builtmikesway1167]

I believe the guy we got everything form has one set only. I can check with him if you like, probably be a few weeks before I go see him again

[@michaellewis7117]

@@builtmikesway1167 Sure. See what he has and how much. Where is he? Im in NH.

[@builtmikesway1167]

@@johnnycapan6566 where can I find theses heads? I'm looking for heads too, any help would be awesome. I really appreciate it

[@builtmikesway1167]

@@johnnycapan6566 thanks I already buy stuff form him. I'll check em out thank you

[@JimsFastbackGarage]

I run Cleveland 2V quench chamber heads on my 2 bolt block. Stock bottom end and .030 over flat top pistons. My chambers are 60cc and I run 93 pump gas. Can you post a better picture of the quench 2V head and the part numbers on the underside of the intake runners.

[@builtmikesway1167]

Sure I'll try to get some better pics of the ALL the heads we have. Let me know if your looking for a number or date code you want. Thanks for watching

[@roberthirshfield3571]

I just picked up a set of 2 v Aussie heads closed chamber what size valves are in yours

[@builtmikesway1167]

I just got a pair myself. Not sure, I'm waiting to check them out any day now.

[@matthewmoilanen787]

There is no such thing as a Cleveland Windsor. Those heads have an M above the C not a W for goodness sakes. They are not a terrible head for street as they have the small high velocity ports but they are open chamber. They are from 351 and 400 M engines not Windsors in any way.

[@builtmikesway1167]

I agree, I appreciate you watching and taking the time to comment. Hope you have an awesome day!

[@MsKatjie]

Open Chamber, no goood, man. Pingny ping!!!!