3rd Level Spells: Overrated/Underrated/Best/Worst

[@caiusofglantri5513]

You didn't mention the fact that Hypnotic Pattern also has no verbal component - its one of only five spells in the PHB that can be cast by a wizard when grappled in silence. This overcomes one of the wizard's basic vulnerabilities.

[@TreantmonksTemple]

You know, I completely missed that!

[@mdsyabil]

TIMESTAMPS: Worst 1:15 No.3 1:50 No.2 2:30 No.1 Best 3:50 No.3 5:10 No.2 6:55 No.1 Overrated 8:50 No.3 10:00 No.2 12:17 No.1 Underrated 14:25 No.3 15:50 No.2 18:20 No.1

[@trapical]

I always die a bit inside when I see a player cast Fireball at 5th level...against a single target

[@quonomonna8126]

@@trapical unless its an ancient white dragon

[@SSXtrikE]

One caveat I want to mention is Call Lightning's *duration* - a whopping 10 minutes. That's 100 rounds of 4d10 lightning damage. The point of this isn't that it's good in a straight-up fight, but that it's the Druid's first genuine siege/anti-castle spell. Summon the cloud and rain down lightning on whatever hapless fools decided to hole up in an "unassailable" fort. At level 5, this can tear down parapets and archers on turreted walls while the BDFs storm the gate. At 8th level, the druid can cast this, wildshape into a bird, and use their new vantage point to target reserve soldiers behind the walls. Don't mistake it for a blast spell - it is not. It's a siege engine in spell form.

[@lilpotayto]

One benefit of Catnap is that you can use it in the middle of a fight if the Wizard casts Wall of Force for a quick party refresh and the satisfaction of taking a smug snooze in full view of the enemy.

[@TreantmonksTemple]

That's hilarous, and I never thought of it.

[@ariagrumpy8254]

Everybody gangsta until you sleep and someone dispels your wall of force

[@sinsirius]

@@ariagrumpy8254 If the enemy has access to disintegrate you probably shouldn't be napping. Regular dispel magic doesn't work on Wall of Force, and the wall extends into the ethereal plane.

[@TheFirstLanx]

Leomund's Tiny Hut is a spell that has reached iconic status in some of my games (where we like to play strategicly thoughtful characters who want to seize every advantage they can). Here's some thoughts on usage and counter-usage: -The hut has a floor in the same way that the hut has walls. No, enemies can't burrow in, but they can dig out the floor from underneath you and have you fall out. Even a bunch of Orcs with shovels can manage this. -Orcs with shovels are easily repelled, because any wizard worth their salt has a Tenser's Floating Disk with them with at least a Thousand crossbow bolts on it. The case of ammo needs to be in the hut when it's erected and it can be fired out. -The most reliable way to beat a LTH is dispel magic, which has a 120ft range. If you're anticipating this, a counterspell can be cast by leaning out of the hut briefly, but counterspell only has a 60ft range. -This tactic is beaten in turn by placing your LTH in a valley or ruin that is out of sight unless within 60ft. -Enemies can still play war-drums to keep you awake. -War-Drum players get exhausted playing war-drums all night. -Enemies who have failed to assault your well-defended hut last night will likely not approach a Major Image of a LTH. >=) -Don't let your LTH get buried while you sleep.... -Beholders are terrifying.

[@TreantmonksTemple]

This post starts OK, but gets better and better...

[@TheFirstLanx]

It's a really enjoyable spell that invites the user to think. I love it

[@caiusofglantri5513]

I agree - burying a LTH is possibly the most effective tactic by creatures without dispel.

[@laurenzreichelt4911]

This Post is amazing! My Players would not survive two minutes if i played like this though

[@maltheopia]

@@caiusofglantri5513 This is why we set watches. If the orcs or whatever want to tunnel under the LTH, you can just fill them with arrows and flaming oils while they attempt that ridiculous task. If they want to start far enough away so that they don't get filled full of arrows, they'll never tunnel far enough before you finish your rest. While there were sappers and counter-sappers in history, these were affairs that took weeks, not hours.

[@charlessaintpe8574]

I'm surprised you didn't mention the fact that Spirit Guardians is also basically difficult terrain, and it has up to a 10 minute duration. This is great if you have multiple combats in quick succession.

[@andrewnoonan8174]

I'm surprised Plant Growth didn't even make the honorable mentions for best or underrated. The massive area and massive movement impairment effect without even using Concentration make it easy to pick off even the toughest melee enemies with ranged attacks.

[@warmekteefgrabba4671]

For Thunderstep I find the size restriction that prevents small characters from helping their medium allies to be strange for 5e and aggravating. Seems like most the distinctions between size have been removed so it comes up rarely but when it does seems like smaller characters get the worse end of it.

[@fulminictus3557]

Small correction: the Tiny Hut's caster cant leave the dome or the spell ends. Awesome vids!

[@rusto3618]

Your content is always high quality and I respect that you are so thoughtful with your answers. God wizard has by far been my favorite class/character to play.

[@eragontherider123]

Spirt Guardians also slows down movement which helps make an actual front line and prevent people from just going around you and making a rush for the squishies. Also love Hypnotic Pattern. Was going a 6th level dungeon crawl into a purple worm temple the other week. Hypnotic Pattern shut down one of the two worms and dissonant whispers moved the other far enough way for all of us to make a run with the treasure in our grasp.

[@trapical]

I die a bit inside whenever I see a player upcast Fireball to a 6th level slot... and target only a single enemy. ._.

[@MarkAndrewL]

Catnap is good if you're on the clock. As a DM I often either have my players trying to achieve a goal in a couple hours or racing another team or group to accomplish a task. Catnap is CRAZY useful in my game.

[@jamesorth8231]

Depends on the table and situation. But I find it rare that you are in a situation that a 10 min short rest for 3 members is fine but a 1 hr short rest for the whole party is just too long. Unless you are in a weird timed trial or something.

[@fortunatus1]

Just keep a handy Catnap scroll for when its necessary. No need to lose a slot in the dungeon when you can grab a spell scroll.

[@zhoupact8567]

That is a good point. I would still like be very happy if a party member would take it to help by warlock out a bit. During a whole day, of fighting and adventuring. Setting of an hour just for me to get my spell back is not really worth the risk or time. But 10 min. That should be fine in most situations. Even if you consider it just from the characters side. In 100 days of adventuring. If 30 of those you would need to make a short rest due to a party member. That would save a total of 25 hours.

[@Zynovus]

This week D&D 1-shot session we have a tough fight against Tarrasque. When most melee are low hp and out of resource, the wizard cast Maze to put Tarrasque away for 10min, then all the melee can use Catnap to recharge full HP and resources. Such a useful combo!

[@simone8172]

BEST case scenario, you're saving 50 minutes of time for a 3rd level spell slot. That's without even worrying about the drastically increased risks you incur while unconscious, or the fact that it only works on 3 people. 3 person parties are quite uncommon and if you have more than 3 people in your party, you're not even saving 50 minutes cause you're not even getting the full effects of a short rest for the cost of your 3rd level spell slot. While I can *theoretically* imagine a campaign where a DM basically tailors things for Catnap to be maximally useful, calling that circumstantial is an understatement. In every campaign I've ever witnessed, the times when 50 minutes makes ANY meaningful difference, let along a difference worthy of a powerful 3rd level spell slot, are few and far between if they even ever happen. At mid levels with the right DM, maaaybe. At lower levels, even if the literal perfect situations come up from time to time I think you might STILL be better off with having a well cast Hypnotic Pattern or the like still available to you. To be clear I'm not denying that it's useful or that it isn't benefiting your party, I just haven't been convinced that they couldn't be benefiting MORE with wise use of stronger 3rd level spells.

[@captainpandabear1422]

Erupting Earth is bad for wizards and sorcerers, who have much better options, but druids don't have a similar option for area damage unless they use their concentration. It's a good aoe that scales well and doesn't eat your concentration, and the difficult terrain it creates can be super handy.

[@eragontherider123]

I agree. Less about the damage and more with the difficult terrain. While there may be other options for creating difficult terrain, erupting earth does give a decent size, easy to aim method of creating it.

[@captainpandabear1422]

Well you have to consider the damage in the context of who is using it. Druids have very poor aoe options that don't use concentration until higher levels. Ice storm is okay, but the difficult terrain it creates is only for a round. Erupting earth is alright damage -and- control that doesn't require your concentration, so you can keep your giant bats around. I mean, he's right that wizards and sorcerers shouldn't take it, but it's a decent option for druids.

[@Lucasfghjsokfdkjheu]

@@captainpandabear1422 The guy tends to see things from the perspective of a wizzard. He rarely takes other classes abilities or spell lists in consideration.

[@georger9842]

Love it! My wizard has just got level five and Hypnotic Pattern is a great suggestion! Thank you! I am really enjoying these and can’t wait to see more of your stuff

[@kylesizemore2751]

Catnap is completely broken if you're a chronurgy wizard at level 10. You can abuse it to get 2 beads instead of 1. That means you could potentially concentrate on 3 spells at once with some set up. Imagine hasting 3 party members at once or combining silly aoe effects. You could kill someone slowly by casting levitate and cloud of daggers on them and letting them sit there for 10 minutes.

[@avatar8083]

According to Jeremy Crawford's another tweet, the breath weapon of a dragon is not a spell or magical effect and wouldn't be considered an object so would go through Leomund's Tiny Hut.

[@8IlPriore8]

I'm addicted to your content. Keep up the great work.

[@lordofthefishes120]

I think that you're overrating Hypnotic Pattern a bit. It's certainly a good spell, but it doesn't take them out of combat forever, just until another enemy wakes them up. That's 1-2 actions lost per failed saving throw, closer to 1 if the DM is optimally waking up the enemies.

[@ericrobinson2611]

Not to mention if there's an enemy caster with something like burning hands or magic missile, or anyone with a minor AoE, they can very quickly wake up a whole bunch of their allies, albeit taking some damage.

[@taloutezero]

@@ericrobinson2611 So your one 3rd lvl spell slot gave you at worst, guaranteed damage on a few enemies and at least 1 caster using a spell slot + ignoring your party completely? Yeah um... Sounds pretty good.

[@GwenWynns]

Catnap is specifically designed for dungeon crawl styles of play. Same with Healing Spirit. The value of getting a short rest or full HP quickly is much greater when your DM rolls random encounters every hour, or even every minute. Also Erupting earth is great for a land druid who can ignore the penalty of difficult terrain. Difficult terrain is a game winner and erupting earth might be the best choice to make this happen in most levels. Treantmonk, I think you have a lot of good insight but there are times you unfairly rate things based off of your own table experiences.

[@MsNathanv]

@@skymanta1222 There is such a thing as non-HP SR resources.

[@junipercarroll1811]

Conjure Animals says nothing about splitting the decision with your DM. You always get the choice of number summoned, never what comes out.

[@oneeyedjack6254]

I Always used 'Reason" they were Summoned. IE; Damage, Defense, Escape and Utility. By giving the DM These Parameters, I was able to slightly design my Intentions while casting the Spell.

[@jamesorth8231]

Awesome vid, I know there are tons great 3rd level spells but my favorite is Slow. Ya the saves at the end of the turn might suck but it's effective against any creature. First you can safely cast it into area where there are allies since you can pick the affected creatures. I mean: -2 AC, no reaction, half movement, can only use bonus action or action per turn, only one melee attack per turn, and spells have a 55% chance to take 2 turns to cast. This spell is effective vs casters, melee creatures, high ac creatures, multi-attack creatures etc. My favorite is that when a caster rolls below an 11, they have to concentrate on that spell until their next turn (kinda like holding your action to cast a spell) and if they get hit and lose concentration they just lose the spell all together.

[@Nr4747]

The main question is: Why not cast Hypnotic Pattern instead ?

[@jamesorth8231]

@@Nr4747 1. About 1/5 of the creatures in the MM are immune to charm outright, some are blind(sense) so aren't affected, and more than that have advantage (like all elves). There is no resisting Slow except innate magical resistance. 2. Slow has a larger area than HP but not by much. 3. If you roll low initiative, get surrounded/surprised, or have lots of melee allies that rush in, it's really hard to land a HP that doesnt hit allies or only hits 2 baddies. Being able to select the important targets even if there are more than 6 with Slow is nice. Finally 4, I'm not saying HP is bad and honestly it's better than Slow 75% of the time, but that 25% when it's not it could be deadly if Slow isn't prepared. I say prepare both and hope you don't have to use Slow.

[@awokentotime7157]

What about the minute meteors? They answer the question of what to do on the bonus action and after 3 rounds it could deal 12d6 provided they fail save.

[@TreantmonksTemple]

I don't mind minute meteors, but 4d6/round blasting is not my first choice for answering the question of what I will be concentrating on.

[@maltheopia]

@@TreantmonksTemple Minute Meteors does have two very good properties that certain characters can take advantage of: 1) The first is that it's technically two damage rolls, not one. This is a bit of a nerf since round-downs will have you doing a point less damage, but if you have an effect that applies to multiple damage rolls (i.e. Hexblade's Curse) you get a double tap. 2) The second is that you can fast-cast it with a Contingency. And you get the damage immediately without using an action. When I was playing a L15 and L16 Evoker in Adventurer's League, a typical show-stopper combo I did was: Contingency: Overchanneled Melf's Minute Meteors at Level 5 1st Round of Combat: Hexblade's Curse + Pre-OC Melf's Minute Meteors + Overchanneled Scorching Ray: that was up to [39 (MMM) + 107 (OC SC)] = 146 points of damage to a target in one round. And if I needed to, I could risk an Overchannel and do it again the next round. Or I could just use my Staff of the Magi (Season 8 AL was absurdly generous) for a Fireball and do an additional 90 points of damage to the target and 50 to everything else.

[@josephharwood4226]

The problem with hypnotic pattern is that other enemies can use their action to shake a creature out of it so it isn't a total knockout, it is still pretty good.

[@Nr4747]

True, otherwise the spell would be completely broken (it arguably already is, especially for a 3rd level spell).

[@MsNathanv]

You're not expecting it to last forever anyways. If every pattern takes 2 actions per failed save from the enemy's first turn, that's almost as good as taking 1 action per failed save for the entire combat. Although if the DM is metagaming initiative scores, that might not necessarily be how it works out, I can imagine.

[@peterrasmussen4428]

I have seen catnap be used to great effect during a siege. The party was all out of resources, and couldn't provide any real help anymore. But after a ten minute rest, they had some hit points, and some abilities back, and still had further impact. Catnap is not about safety. Catnap is about speed. It is very circumstantial, but not as terrible as say, wall of water.

[@nicolaslanzaflores]

Not to be too demanding, but I expect an unreasonably long rant on Watery Sphere. Best and criminaly underrated spell. On another note, I notice some improvement on your exposition. Can't quite put my finger on why, but can't hurt to say. Thanks for the vídeo!

[@TreantmonksTemple]

Thank you! Interestingly, I almost put Watery Sphere on my overrated list as I rated it blue on my guide, I've found it useful, but not overwhelmingly wonderful as I had envisioned when I first read the spell, in fact, I have considered changing the rating to green (still good, but not top rank). You perhaps have had better use of it than I have had. I've been working on delivery. I no longer write a script, just some notes on the points I want to get across, the script made me seem way to unnatural and wooden IMO. Still a bit uncomfortable in front of the camera, but it's much less than it was even a couple weeks ago.

[@nicolaslanzaflores]

Oh, it's definetly showing improvements. Good call! I can definetly see how Watery Sphere is not the end all of control spells: one is initially inclined to use it on melee attackers as they are the most reliant on movement speed. But that creates a twofold problem for the spell: both with the size restrictions for the targets and the saves being STR-based. This seems to limit Watery Sphere to a niche of only being fully useful against melee DEX-based opponents, while still being pretty decent against everyone else. Even then one could say (and I would agree) that it makes Watery Sphere on the range of a "really good, but still fair spell" spell. But I will rant for unreasonably long about it now (feel free to ignore, sorry for any eventual gramatic mistakes): I have found that Watery Sphere is fantastically effective (and thus achieving unfair status) against enemy casters and any ranged attackers when Underwater Combat and Visibility rules come into play. One could, and perhaps should, argue that either: a) The spell doesn't call out explicitly that those rules apply, so the spell doesn't do that; or b) Those rules are only meant to be in effect regarding the interaction between creatures and objetcs that are all submerged on the same body of water. Maybe both or even other reasons would disallow it, but for the sake of measuring how much it would impact the rating of the spell I will disregard this particular discussion. 1- While underwater, a ranged weapon attack automatically misses a target beyond the weapon’s normal range. With a spell range of 90 ft, every ranged and thrown weapon outside of Longbow and Heavy Crossbow is effectively disabled. Now, realistically, this is most useful against thrown weapons and hand crossbows (cap out at 30 ft normal range) and a few monsters with shorter range attacks, one example being the Giant Spider's Web attack (30 ft range), but I would say it's relevant up to about 50 ft or so. 2- Casting spells with Verbal components underwater is tricky. Now, RAW and RAI are both fairly murky on how it is supposed to work. Jeremy Crawford has manifested on this here: twitter.com/jeremyecrawford/status/816440444162715648 The jist of it is simple: whenever you speak underwater (i.e. casting spells with verbal components) you are no longer holding your breath. Suffocation rules state that when a creature is no longer holding breath, it can survive for a number of rounds equal to its CON mod (minimum 1 round). At the start of its next turn, it drops to 0 and starts rolling death saves. So in some situations it's just over: provided the caster can't dispell Watery Sphere or breathe underwater, it will usually at the very least force a resource to either: a)escape without actually dealing with the sphere (teleportation), b)deal damage to the sphere's caster to threaten concentration failliure (uncertain), c)save or suck the sphere's caster with something that ends concentration (again uncertain, and in this case probably resource intensive), all without full access to Verbal components or making a very high risk move with a spell with verbal components. There's more, but all comes down to really cool edge-of-the-seat mindgames here and most of the risk isn't the sphere's caster's. 3- The Somatic components while restrained issue. This, I feel, is the one I could see most DMs rulling against (and so would I). But it's worth to point out: ruling that spellcasters can't cast SC spells while restrained dramatically increases the usefulness of Sphere, and I would advise against. 4- Vision impairment. Nothing about this is made clear RAW or RAI. DMG has a small (and mostly useless) section on the matter of encounters underwater. Every DM will rule this differently, but this has the strongest case for "the spell doesn't state it does, so it doesn't". But keep in mind, this spell could effectively restrain, mute and block line of sight of a caster/ranged attacker depending on. Bonus points if you use Shape Water cantrip to murk the water around the enemy caster's face to blind him. 5- Versatility. You could, on a pinch, provide your party a range of odball uses for this spell. To list some: a)Cast and prepare an action to release the spell to engulf and protect you/your party not only against a strong fire attack (say a red dragon's breath) providing resistance, but also melee weapon attacks from creatures without a swimming speed, imposing disadvantage to most weapon attacks. b)Releasing it to extinguish flames on a radius of 30 ft, or capture creatures who are on fire to save them. c)Poor man's feather fall, using it to safely land a party of 4, or go down a dangerous abyss, etc. d)Arguably provide cover. The list may go on. To conclude, my thesis is: Watery Sphere is underrated because water is awesome. Thank you for your unreasonable amount time.

[@MrNicster]

Me and my party waded in to what looked to be a long freaking fight, so to brace my self I stuck to casting Call Lightning and Spiritual Weapon. So I managed to be a viable damage dealer every rund with 4d10 damage and a Spiritual Weapon whoop when needed, and it only cost me 1 2nd level and 1 3rd level spell, saving me A LOT of resources. Resource management wins the day.

[@Nr4747]

I'm almost 100% certain that the caster of Conjure Animals decides how many creatures they summon (because of the wording of the spell) and that the GM decides on what type of creatures appear (unclear wording but confirmed by errata to be the case).

[@TreantmonksTemple]

You are correct - I made a mistake in this video.

[@PrimarchX]

I'd argue that Bestow Curse may be an over-rated 3rd level spell, but it's not an over-rated 5th level spell, once the duration extends and concentration requirement are removed. Toss it out at a BBEG, who can only get rid of it with a Remove Curse, on Turn 1 of the combat and make them have disadvantage against the saves of your most potent spells, or have to make a Wisdom Save every turn or do nothing, or have disadvantage to hit you, for another 8 hours.

[@Wanderingsage7]

You should probably let your DM know if you're planning on using summoning spells, because that's an extra thing the dm or you have to handle.

[@gabrielrussell5531]

The key disadvantage of **Leomund's Waffle Hut** is that a smart enemy will see the hut, and spend your long rest alerting all its' buddies, at which point when you wake up you've brought the entire dungeon down on you.

[@Coffee_Toffee]

" any color you choose" therefore, have a texture that looks like a magic orb sphere thingy, which makes them think it is magical, so why would they bring the entire dungeon down upon you, as that dungeon, if it is properly designed, is either a crypt, or underneath a castle for historical accuracy

[@ymdw45]

Also, the dome lacks the "immune to all damage" clause of Wall of Force, so you could theoretically wake up to a whole dungeon worth of enemies destroying the hut and eating you.

[@TreantmonksTemple]

That's certainly a possibility, though a lot of enemies in an adventure, including wandering monsters, don't necessarily have a bunch of buddies, even if they are smart. I would think a really smart enemy would alert all his buddies and NOT wait by the magical hut, but instead prepare some defenses in their lair for oncoming adventurers who hopefully will no longer be at full strength and aware of you, as a party would be if you were waiting outside the hut.

[@paulkocherhans608]

This is where fireball is not so over-rated ;D

[@gregoryfloriolli9031]

Fireball is a great spell that I always take but once I get access to 4th level spells I have a hard time passing up on casting Polymorph. I’m guessing Polymorph is going to show up on your 4th level list somewhere.

[@adrastos8401]

I want to point out that glyph of warding is brokenly powerful if you have a bag of holding. Using it as a blast spell it is not great but if you cast haste or blur or upcast it to get greater invisibility while the glyph is in a bag of holding you can pull it out (or give it to someone else to pull out) to give concentration free buff spells

[@1217BC]

I enjoy your videos, but you have some weird discrepancies. Where do you get the rules you stated about conjure spells? While it's not as clearly worded as it could be in the book, it definitely doesn't say that you pick either CR or the specific creature. Sage advice does clarify that the caster gets to pick the CR and possible number that show up, but the actual creature summoned is up to the DM. At no point, in the books or errata, have I seen your interpretation. It's not a bad house rule, I kind of like it, but you present it as reiteration of a basic rule. Did I miss this somewhere?

[@TreantmonksTemple]

You didn't miss anything. My correction is in the 4th level spell video.

[@1217BC]

@@TreantmonksTemple Thanks for the update. And thanks for so openly acknowledging and correcting it. We all make mistakes, the testament of a person is how they deal with them. I've watched a fair few of your videos at this point, and I really appreciate both the thought and the passion you clearly put into this. You set a wonderful tone of respect for your fellow gamers, and an understanding that not all play styles are the same, while obviously caring deeply about how you want to play. It's a tricky line, and you walk it well. Kudos, sir

[@TreantmonksTemple]

@@1217BC Thank you! This is definitely my passion.

[@TvorCrl]

For Tiny Hut wouldn't the PC's fall through the floor as a hole opened up in the ground. It say's "Creatures and objects⁠ within the dome when you cast this spell can move through it freely." does that mean they can choose whether the walls and floor of the Dome are solid or not at any given time? It seems like they would fall through a 10-foot hole in the ground if it was immediately below the dome. Can the PC's lean upon the wall of the dome or will they fall through?

[@Kurotekken]

You bring up Terrasque vs. Leomund's tiny hut. Isn't the Terrasque big enough that it could just scoop up the earth where the hut is, then throw it? As DM, I'd rule that that's quite a bit of collision force for the creatures inside, comparable to fall damage with d6s. More serious question, this one about hypnotic pattern. Because it says creatures who can see it, I'm always concerned about hypnotizing my party, or myself. Am I misinterpreting it?

[@cameronkirby9479]

Your views on Catnap is interesting. I was planning to take it on my Valor Bard when he gets lvl5 or 6 and was very excited for it (I'm using your Valor Bard variant btw and it's excellent!). To echo other comments I think you miss the time value. I admittedly might be over valuing that atm having recently finish Tomb of Annihilation using the Gritty Realism variant rest rules. But by the end of that campaign we were ignoring it and there were still a number of times where we couldn't spare a full 1hr for a short rest. Making 10min however is far more doable. I also don't view only it as an issue that it only effects 3 characters. Certain classes get way more from short rests than others. My current party is Bard, Cleric, Rogue, Rune Knight Fighter, Blood Hunter and Mercy Monk. The latter three get their main abilities from a short rest and knowing they can take an emergency one would allow them to go full out if needed. A few examples I've found common enough to justify knowing catnap are: - Infiltrating an enemy outpost and we've had a few combats but remained undetected. Taking an hour is waaay to risky, but taking 10 min so your Monk/Warlock/Fighter/Druid/Blood Hunter can refresh while your Rogue/Familiar keeps watch is perfectly doable. - Traveling through dangerous terrain, pop your short rest characters on a steed and let them kip for 10 min. That or have a strong character carry them. - In a dungeon with enemies abound? Use familiar or your rogue to lead them away for 10 min. If you've a stealthy caster (my ToA character was an Arcane Trickster/Cleric) use illusion spells to lead them away. Pulling that off for a full hour probably isn't possible, but 10min? - This is admittedly a niche use but catnap implies its a deep unconsciousness not just sleeping. So if you've an NPC you don't trust convince them to take a nap with a few other party members and then tie them up while asleep.

[@parheliaa]

Hypnotic Pattern has friendly fire. Your BSF in combat will not make his Saving Throw (in most cases), so it means that somebody has to use an action to wake him up. It has to be taken into consideration. Outside of the Tiny Hut is opaque so in some cases, it may block teleportation into (you do not see the target). Also, it depends on how your DM interprets "Spells and other magical effects can’t extend through the dome or be cast through it". Wizard can't leave the Hut. "The spell ends if you leave its area"

[@Bam31415]

My experience playing a shepherd druid from 3rd to 9th lvl and a twilight cleric at 8th (joined a campaign that was underway) I've found Conjure Animals to be stronger than Spirit Guardians. For most of the time we rolled randomly as to what beasts appeared. Though the advantages of playing a Shepherd definitely played inn. It's a hard spell to run as you have to execute eight creatures moves and attacks effectively and without draging everything to a halt, but it's massively powerful. It adds a tonn of damage, it's a strong control spell that forces the enemy to deal with minions while the PCs can do their stuff, and it can add conditions depending on what you summon. If you're allowed to choose your summons it's downright broken. As a Shepherd Druid it's probably stronger than Animate Objects (it might be so anyway), and AO is commonly sited as one of the best 5th lvl spells.

[@TwilightBrigade]

A note on Thunder Step: yes, you can move someone out of peril with it (leaving behind a nice parting gift)... but that person must be within 5' of you. So if you're rescuing them from a perilous situation, you've likely entered the Danger Zone to do so. I'd suggest insisting on a 'thank you' from them for your selflessness, but you're a wizard, and should be used to saving the day with foresight by now.

[@Einejoru]

Thanks for your work and keep it up; I’d love to hear your opinion about 4th level spells. From what I've noticed polymorph is not as broken as it used to be but it may be broken nontheless (and it is another proof that wizard is the best healer since damage prevention always beats healing)

[@TreantmonksTemple]

Are you reading my notes? ;)

[@disobedienttiger6240]

NOBODY underrates Conjure Animals. DMs hate it cuz it is capable of unbalancing a combat AND slowing it waaaay down.

[@neovi6424]

Hey Chris, your guides and videos are awesome! I really like the versatility of the Bladesinger Wizard. What do you think about a Bladesinger when using the Shadow Blade spell? It does 3d8+DEX per attack when cast at 3rd level which is better than the extra attack from haste, 4d8 at 5th level. I know melee shouldn't be a wizard's go to but I think it could be useful in certain situations when your party really just needs more damage. I also think it can be fairly resource efficient, allowing you to be effective in a fight while conserving spells.

[@TreantmonksTemple]

I think Shadow Blade is a decent "offensive buff" spell. One concern I have with it, if it is replacing a + weapon, you will lose that bonus to hit, so it's definitely better with a party with few magic weapons. Frankly, with most parties, the Bladesinger will not be your best choice to use the blade. Fightery type characters may get better use from it.

[@neovi6424]

@@TreantmonksTemple Makes sense, thanks for your thoughts on it! Not having + weapon to hit bonus is a good point.

[@naumsei6221]

19:30 use invisibility on your familiar, bring the familiar inside the hut, use an action to see what your familiar can see, use misty step to go inside, drop bombs, oil and alcoholic drinks, mist step outside, glee when the creatures inside need to move outside or they will burn alive.

[@jamesaleman]

What if you use cat nap inside a rope trick to speed up a short rest, some classes don't need the rest, but the ones that do can take nap, While they are napping, the non short rest caster can be preparing a ritual.

[@stephensusman3928]

Hey Chris, I have a question concerning a use of Conjure Animals. If you conjure a swarm of ravens (or rats or bats), would you have partial cover/full cover from them occupying your space? Could you have them hold their action to jump in front of attacks? That could be useful having some guard you and the rest attack. The idea of having a druid casting spells from inside a cloud of animals is a cool concept, I think.

[@clarkside4493]

Flame Arrows is only good for Necromancers who tell their skeletons to stand adjacent to each other. One of them has the enchanted quiver and all are told to use arrows from said quiver.

[@ST1mAPB]

After playing some good time with wolfs and apes(when i needed ranged options), my DM started to choose creatures i summon randomly. So in the battle after casting Conjure Animals i summoned Frog, Bat, Boar and Poison Snake. That was not very helpful in 7lvl encounter. My melee friends with nice Flame Tongues were much more useful, than my CR2 form, 11hp boar and some random animals who were having fun, while i was trying to concentrate, clawing enemies. That was big "nerf" after one fight with 8 pixies at level 7.

[@Ironfist85hu1]

One thing for catnap - if you do a Ritual not in offtime, but for example in a dungeon, and your warlock, or other shortrestbenefitter party member needs a short rest. It can be.... oookay. From a scroll.

[@honestbenny]

What you miss about Erupting Earh is that it deals magical bludgeoning damage. There is only 8 monsters immune to it, 0 monsters resistant to it and 4 vulerable to it. While there are tons of immune and resistant monsters to fire/lighting, even cold. So at level 5-6-7 Erupting Earth (even at 8) is still the only AOE damage in game that can deal magical bludgeoning damage, making it best damage type in 99% of encounters you will face. In 99% cases you don't have to even worry "will it be good damage type" because it will be. Also it's Cube so it's easier to place to avoid FF than fireball. When you are in dungeon or smaller areas EE will be able to actually work (unless you are Evoker). Also EE can be great in blocking passages, bridges, doors etc. Note that you treat damage in very noob-way. Min-Maxers know that damage (falt value) means nothing, because you also have to consider: immunities, resistances, save type, cube/cone vs sphere, Friendly Fire etc. It's same like people saying PAM + GWM is so great while totally ignoring accuracy. In proper DPR calculation accuracy on enemies with AC 18+ will actually give you better damage than flat damage value increases. Same is with EE vs Fireball. In real scenario from slot 4+ EE will over few adventuring day deal more damage than fireball because it's better AOE type (Cube) and much much better damage type (rare bludgeoning vs very common fire). So EE is not overrated, it's underrated because people like you just compare flat damage vs flat damage which means nothing really.

[@kyliepoe6231]

I always consider the subpar spells to be mainly for bad guys, NPCs, maybe henchmen and specialists who want weird spells for some reason (a bonus with storm spells perhaps?) or a clever use that only occurs to you because you are playing this off build. These videos are great, love the analysis.

[@luffyjam]

Does the Hut float on water? Um just incase you find yourself out in sea by your self.

[@DaDunge]

11:20 Ok do tell me what I should be using my 5th level slots to cast because my genie warlock i'm building right now seems to have very few good options aside from upcasting fireball. Doesn't seem to be crap that's useful in the 5th level slots, I mean you seem to like walls so I guess wall of stone from the Dao Subsubclass is an option but I'm not really feeling like playing a dao warlock. Hunger of Hadar doesn't seem bad but it competes wit sickening radiance which seems better for concentration. I mean there's hypnotic pattern but it doesn't upcast so I'm wasting level 5 slots on a level 3 spell.

[@Hidole555]

Looking at the honorable mentions and I am cackling at the idea of a wizard that uses Feign Death on himself without realizing it would block the action he'd need to take to end the spell early.

[@kelving420]

In my campaign I homebrewed Call Lightning as fire damage, and I accidentally made a monster, because the Wildfire Druid in my party is now a psychopath who wants to destroy society as a whole for nature to reign again... And Call Lightning has a 10 minute duration... Which means he can destroy an entire village *_on his own_* And everyone is going to think it was the Dragon Cult's fault... And I love that

[@SmugLookingBarrel]

Great video as always.

[@quonomonna8126]

I could see upcasting fireball if you're fighting something you know is vulnerable to fire

[@eliparker4114]

I think flame arrows works best on a hunter ranger with volley. It’s a niche use case, but when there’s a pack of really close-together enemies it can be a tangible boost to volley for the first round or two of combat.

[@TreantmonksTemple]

Yep, I could see that combo being pretty good. It's not an easy spell to figure out how to make effective.

[@HumbledHeron]

Tough call between The Hut and Hypnotic Pattern. A powerful battlefield control spell is one of the most influential aspects of a game, so I understand why it made the best of list. Even if an opponent saves, if they rouse an incapacitated ally, they spend their action, which effectively controls them for a round anyway. I would love to discuss the merits of the honorable mentions in the comments and give them their due diligence. I am currently experimenting with the Slow spell in a campaign, and have been very pleased with the results. The friendly fire aspect is rather unique among the control spells of the level (save Spirit Guardians), and I find it especially helpful against multi-attacking grapplers and casters. Potentially delaying an enemy spell for a turn allows you an extra round to eliminate them before their havoc takes effect, and you may save a valuable Counterspell slot.

[@TreantmonksTemple]

Yes, the honorable mention for Slow is all about it being ally-friendly. Useful as a backup when everyone gets mixed up with the bad guys.

[@ameliagryffon7097]

If your hypnotic pattern hits could you use catnap for a in-combat short rest if you were hasted? Also leomunds tiny but and rope trick don't work for time sensitive plots. The lich needs to be stopped before he can finish the ritual to summon terrrasque. The princess was kidnapped and is about to be sacrificed by cultists. If the plot waits for your input it probably sucks bc then no one else is being proactive except the party which takes all fun and difficulty out of the game.

[@TreantmonksTemple]

Not sure how being hasted would affect the spell requirements of a catnap which requires 10 minutes (10 times longer than a Hypnotic Pattern), so I don't think that tactic would work. I agree with you that plot can make Rope Trick and Leomund's Hut not always the right option.

[@ameliagryffon7097]

@@TreantmonksTemple Hasting let's you cast catnap and hypnotic pattern in the same turn right? It doesn't effect the time it takes on you just makes it so the hypno pattern doesn't run out because I believe they have the same duration of 10 minutes ergo if you did them sequentially it would mess you up.

[@ameliagryffon7097]

Oh, shoot nevermind you'd need a simulacrum or something bc haste can't cast two spells XD i'm a big dum dum.

[@TreantmonksTemple]

Hypnotic Pattern only lasts up to one minute

[@ameliagryffon7097]

@@TreantmonksTemple are there any control spells that last roughly ten minutes?

[@Adurnis]

Sh*t, he's right. *immediately updates future spell list. As a side note, TM, I will watch all of your vids because you know what you're talking about-but this edit was, as you said, a bit rough. The noise level of the opening was much better than in the two previous videos, but the cuts were much rougher than in your previous videos. Strongly recommend having your script/spell choices laid out in advance so you don't need to cut in clips from different times of the day. The audio also varies, sometimes I was listening to your evenly in both ears and then you were stronger in one ear than the other. That said, for a newcomer to the video-making game, you're doing great! Keep this content coming!

[@Adurnis]

Also, very much appreciate you bringing out Thunder Step-I've thought it was fantastic since it came out in Xanathar's and no one else seems to think of it.

[@dittmar104]

You really missed the point of catnap, it meant as a "encase of time sensitive situation break glass" kind of spell. eg. You the party wizard practically untouched in the battle against the ancient black dragon standing guard to the cultist ritual chamber on the verge of summoning the Dragon Queen to the primematerial they are in the last hour of their grueling 24 hour ritual. You look around your party is ruined, your barbarian went down in the fight, your clerics been pumping out heals all the way through the excruciating long dungeon crawl and just like the cleric the warlock is practically tapped out. The cleric could spend what dwindled resources they have trying to get the tank back to full OR you can just cast catnap and still have over 40 minutes to spare. Yeah its situational but so is absorb element, water breathing and banishment (I'm taking about the good part of banishment), but is it really putting too much of a strain on the eight+ spell you can memories a day? IDK maybe but its definitely worth having in your book for when you know you're storming the castle.

[@xTwilightWolvesx]

19:22 This is only partially correct. Allies can come and go freely, but the spell will disspell if the caster leaves the hut.

[@voltron736]

Here's a question. If you have to enter and exit the tiny hut through some type of door, what would happen if lets say a wall of forced or stone was cast in front of the door preventing passage. What would happen to the party trapped inside when the spell duration expires?

[@deantitus9734]

I'm interested in knowing why the spell Haste was strangely omitted from both your best and underrated spells?!?!

[@KatanaKamisama]

Can you use Flame Arrows + Animate Objects if you animate arrows or some such projectile? It could be a decent synergy spell for some bonus dmg if the DM rules it's OK. Only down side is it would take 2 players' concentration.

[@darynm1679]

I agree about fireball. I've never tended to use it all that much past 8th lvl.

[@MsNathanv]

Catnap is DM insurance for Warlocks. Not that they get it, but if they did, it would be :) (Rope trick is better for that purpose though, if you're feeling like MCing-- sometimes it feels like Gloomstalker 5 was made for Warlock....)

[@LokiLaughs2]

In defense of flaming arrows it has a situational use with a necromancer. It lasts 1 hour so 12 skeletons archers can all draw 1 arrow each from the quiver, explore for an hour, and it will dish out 12d6 in a single round of combat then no longer require concentration. The action economy is good on it because the wizard can still cast a spell on the first round of combat.

[@knate44]

Leomund's tiny hut is secretly a giant forcecage for the rest of the world.

[@unicyclepeon]

I need to find a way to get as many of the "best spells" on my character's spell list as possible. I guess Lore Bard is looking good.

[@NER124]

A Divine Sorcerer who goes takes the ritual caster gets *almost* all of them. Going from his level 1-3 "best 3" list, at level five you could potentially know any 7/9 of the spells, except for Pass without Trace and Find Steed (you can also know Leomund's hut with the ritual caster!). If you REALLY wanted to, you could go an Earth Genasi/take the ritual caster feat at level 4 go have Pass without trace as well, but giving up on that charisma kinda hurts. That being said I don't know that one character needs to know ALL of these, it's usually better to take a handful and let someone else pick up the other ones. Not to mention, things like shield/absorb elements are freaking amazing, but if your'e a backline sorcerer casting debuffs, you may not need both by level 5.

[@sohinimukherjee2856]

Erupting earth is a great battlefield control spell

[@TainakaRicchan]

Leomunds ty hut: Guarateed ends when you your party is surprised by a caster with dispel magic during your long rest in the hut, wich of course happend to my party once and we woke up with arrows pointing to our faces....

[@Fireproofjeans]

Fire arrows sounds great for a necromancer. 12 skeletons doing an extra d6 (if they hit with their base +4) is almost like having 24 skeletons. But this is the only use case I can think of.

[@karljordan7114]

If you were a mage and had used Leomund's Hut before would teleporting into your enemy's hut be "Very Familiar"? And if the hut was already full when you got in with two of your buddies -- the overcrowding collapses it, of course -- but what are the chances your buddies are still beside you? Are you all surrounded?

[@a99barnsey]

Flame arrows is great for skeletons you animate. Not only does it give your skeletons extra damage, it lets them overcome non-magical resistance. Ten skeletons firing off flame arrows in the first round is a lot of damage.

[@seraph1981r]

I wonder ... is Tiny Hut is resistant to disintegration... or better ... what destroy Tiny Hut ? Angry Beholder ?

[@quonomonna8126]

if i only ever get 3 of them, i want leomund's tiny hut, hypnotic pattern, counterspell and the last one i'm undecided on

[@GockBlock64]

Sleep does the same thing as hypnotic pattern, just with a little more unsafe approach.

[@robertfalse9063]

Im glad feign death got dishonorable mention for worst. It would be ok as a first level spell. It passes as a worldbuilder spell to set up an adventure.

[@Saccillia]

Thanks for the tip about Spiritual Weapon + Spirit Guardian. I feel like a more effective fighter with this combo!

[@neilgray9976]

Am I the only person in the world who thinks hypnotic pattern isn't all that great? If enemies that failed their saves stayed charmed it would be absurdly good, but their allies can use their action to shake them awake. I've seen hypnotic pattern cast many times, and generally what happens is one or two of the strong enemies in the combat get CCd, as well as a few of the weaker minion-types, then what happens is the minions who didn't fail their saves, or who were out of the range of the spell spend their actions waking up the more important members of their team. Depending on how the initiative order played out sometimes the stronger CCd foes don't even end up losing an action. It's not a terrible spell by any means, it always ends up draining the enemies' action economy somewhat, and I suppose if you either get really lucky with enemy saves, or double it up by having another party member cast web or stinking cloud over top of the CCd creatures it could be devastating. I'm just saying that I'd give it a B- rating whereas I think most people seem to think it's A+ material. Most of the time I think spells like web, sleet storm, and even fear are better. I dunno, maybe it's table dependent? Hypnotic pattern definitely gets better the worse the enemies' tactics are but, come on! Even the derp-assest of trolls is probably smart enough to realize that there's safety in numbers and it's a good idea to wake his buddies up before charging into battle. I could be wrong, though. Treantmonk is a mightier wizard than I!

[@TreantmonksTemple]

If your DM is having the enemies use their action to shake all their allies free of the effect regularly, than yes, the spell isn't nearly so good.

[@certifiedfunnyguy]

When leomands tiny hut wasn't the best I got confused but then came to the realization it was just the most underrated if it wasn't I would have had to unsub and take away your badge as The Treantmonk

[@HumbledHeron]

I was surprised that it was considered underrated as well. We need to let the world know just how awesome The Hut is!

[@Tanglangfa]

I’ve used Wall of Sand to bog down the enemy and/or save our bacon more than any other spell. Maybe outside it’s not quite as great, but cast it down a hallway and fight enemies one at a time while they’re blind and 1/3 movement. Cast it into a room to divide the battle. Cast it behind you just to slow enemies as you all run away. This spell isn’t good. It’s superb if you place it correctly.

[@tomgymer7719]

I always think conjure animals is a great spell, and so many fun applications as well. I don't think wall of sand is amazing, but why is it worse than wall of water, which also seems pretty lackluster. Also, obviously you didn't go into it, but how is bestow curse overrated? I never thought it was a great spell, but I thought it was good if someone had a good spell with a save each round effect, so you can get that disadvantage on that type of save.

[@TreantmonksTemple]

Wall of Water isn't a good spell either, but it does provide extra versatility wall of sand doesn't have, and you can even potentially turn it into a solid barrier with cold spells. Bestow Curse gets praise it doesn't deserve because if you cast it with a higher level slot (5th) it doesn't require concentration. However, the effect is pretty lackluster even if it works, which it only does with a failed save. It also has a range of touch which is not ideal. The spell isn't terrible, but it's overrated IMO.

[@tomgymer7719]

​@@TreantmonksTemple Yeah, I've never really understood casting it with that higher level slot, seems pretty wasteful just to save on concentrating. Worth it sometimes sure, but not always, I did forget it was touch, that's not great.

[@alexrobinsson2824]

Are you ever going to rate the cantrips?

[@TreantmonksTemple]

Cantrips will be last. I have less to say about them I think.

[@Wanderingsage7]

Patrols must hate Leomand's tiny hut. ...also, has Leomand made any other spells?

[@karshthegoblin4179]

And if you have a friendly GM who lets the Spirit Guardians move with you. Then it gets SUPER overpower. And its a high damage Cleric spell.

[@eragontherider123]

I have never seen it ruled that it stays in place. I've always seen it always be centered on the cleric. The first words of the spell are, "Spirits float around you up to 15 feet away. " That's fairly unambiguous to me.

[@TreantmonksTemple]

It absolutely moves with you Karsh!

[@karshthegoblin4179]

Wow as a player i felt bad when using the spell and charging into combat against 20-30 monsters and just taking the dodge action (in full plate)... of course constantly moving forward to bring more enemy into the area each round. But I think the GM was also allowing people that saved the first time they entered to make saves while in the area each round. In short it felt super powerful... and wrong as a player using it against hoards of enemy. The cleric of Illmater was doing 2 to 3 times the damage of both the fighters combined in mob fights.

[@Sirklorick]

You can argue that raw creature's takes the damage when they enters the zone against their will but it's been clarified that this goes against the intent of the spell. Cause yeah, otherwise it's incredibly powerful against hordes. ''Reading the description of any of those spells, you might wonder whether a creature is considered to be entering the spell’s area of effect if the area is created on the creature’s space. And if the area of effect can be moved-as the beam of moonbeam can-does moving it into a creature’s space count as the creature entering the area? Our design intent for such spells is this: a creature enters the area of effect when the creature passes into it. Creating the area of effect on the creature or moving it onto the creature doesn’t count. If the creature is still in the area at the start of its turn, it is subjected to the area’s effect. '' dnd.wizards.com/articles/features/rules-answers-april-2016

[@hygorhaas6646]

Animate Dead? It's so powerful.

[@TreantmonksTemple]

I like Animate Dead. The factor that would put it behind, say, an Awaken spell IMO, is that the Animated Dead require your bonus action to command. As you level up, that bonus action hurts more and more. How can I command my animated objects?

[@hygorhaas6646]

@@TreantmonksTemple you can use a general to command. It doesn't require bonus action.

[@HarryduBois-h5e]

@@TreantmonksTemple you're comparing a third level spell to a fifth level. Of course it'll be worse. Having extra hit points, more attacks on target, and mundane horse power out of combat make it a great option. Action economy was extremely strong in 3.5 for a reason, and while not as good now, more actions wins most fights.

[@PhenixArcher]

What about create food and water

[@davidpowell9376]

Call Lightning in my opinion is a lot better on Tempest Clerics than on Druids, since they attack with their Spiritual Weapon and make lightning in the same turn, and also push enemies around with it. Is it better than Spirit Guardians? That's up for debate, but it is a decent spell. Since it lasts for 10 minutes it's also a *very* efficient use of your spell slot.

[@Jenny-ph6bj]

Where does Dispel Magic stand for you? I appreciate that Counterspell stops a spell from happening in the first place but Dispel Magic demolishes magic currently occurring. I recently gained an appreciation for it after watching the CR2 finale.

[@kalendraf]

Glad to see Call Lightning got called out as overrated! With all of it's drawbacks (concentration, where it can be cast, and needing an action each time to use it), it's hard to justify using it when there are usually several other better options.

[@Daedalus_Dragon]

I would argue that Call lighting is much better then moonbeam if you are dealing with either a large fluid battlefield or a combat that is likely to last longer then 10 ten rounds, if you are in a fairly confined space where enemies are not moving a lot, or are bunched, then yes - moonbeam is a better option upcast to 3rd

[@TreantmonksTemple]

Actually, Moonbeam is better in a large fluid battlefield as well. You can move it up to 60 feet per round, and unlike Call Lightning, is not confined to a 60' radius you set up at the beginning of the spell.

[@aidandunne5978]

Tbh, I take Thunderstep before fireball every time.

[@DaDunge]

13:50 Assuming we're playing wizards.

[@Dragoon876]

"Any tart can stab someone. I'm the only one who can rewrite the fabric of reality, stop time and teleport us to the other side of the planet." - Me to every party I've been into.

[@joaodias7152]

Hi Treantmonk, big fan of your guides and videos. I've learned the true role of a wizard with you. Just saw your video for 8th Level Spells, and I have a question for you. You rated Earthquake as one of the underestimated spells and the rationale among other things was the High DC Concentration Saving Throw for any concentrating casters. However, there is a 3rd Level Spell with very similar effects that didn't make your list: Sleet Storm. 40 foot radius, 150 feet range, Prone on failed Dex Saving Throw, Heavily Obscured area (no spells that require vision of the target), and the best of all, high DC Concentration check every turn a caster is inside the sleet storm area. Actually there is a mention of this spell in the new errata released, just to confirm that the Concentration check is indeed to be performed each turn media.wizards.com/2018/dnd/downloads/PH-Errata.pdf (see last page). So this spell is a nightmare for enemy casters, and has similar uses to a 8th level spell. What else would it need to make it to the top 3, or the most underrated spells?

[@TreantmonksTemple]

Sleet Storm is a very good spell, and to be honest, what it needed to be top 3 was to be a different level spell. Level 3 was insane as so many spells are awesome at that level. Level 8 frankly had a lot less competition.

[@VioletMoonfox]

I've had a couple uses for catnap, mostly with a party where three of us were short rest characters, and mostly because one character (not of those three) is often impatient and a thrill seeker, and talking her into a short rest is more difficult, but she can at least agree to ten minutes to sharpen her sword. Or her axe. Or shine her armor.

[@blakebrown3888]

Catnap is really good for warlocks I guess. Aswell as Wardins (Pallocks?)