4 Plumbing Parts/Tools You Should NEVER Use. NO Plumbing Fails

[@jeffostroff]

✅ Useful plumbing tools you SHOULD be using: 🛒 PanaVise 381 Vacuum Base PanaVise: amzn.to/3exQZIC 🛒 Duck Puller Ferrule Ring/Sleeve Puller: amzn.to/2k5hrTY 🛒 Saf-T-Kut EBCRR Brass Compression Ring Remover amzn.to/2Ypt5Mv 🛒 RIDGID One Stop Wrench Kit: amzn.to/2ClCbNa 🛒 Channellock 12-Inch Pliers: amzn.to/2MdcnGR

[@stanleywheeler404]

Jeff I just saw your video!! I live in Central Pennsylvania and I just bought an old house that was built in 1901 and this is EXACTLY the type of pipes that are in this house! I just had to call a plumber because after another plumber had installed s new toilet in our 2nd floor bathroom. Well after a week or so I noticed that when my wife did laundry in our 2nd floor laundry room that is also in our 2nd floor bathroom we noticed that methane smell!! So I called another plumber and he said we had a huge clog in our main water pipe. He had to use a very long electric snake to unclog that pipe! Well here he found that the previous owners had used baby wipes and that was what caused the clog to get bigger over time and when we had the other plumber install the new toilet it added to the problem! Thank you for your VIDEOS ! And for those SADDLE VALVES they're what alot of plumbers and handymen in this area use for the water lines to the refrigerators with the water and ice dispensers in it ! I have 1 of those refrigerators with water and ice in the door but I haven't had the water line hooked up yet on my refrigerator but that saddle valve is what a guy at Lowe's said to use on it! So now I know better thank you!! I will definitely be watching your videos from now on! Thank you!!

[@jeffostroff]

@@stanleywheeler404 Glad to make you an informed homeowner. Only know you have open the Pandora xbox where you are living with the horror of knowing you Could have this as well but at least you can warn your friends and family up there too.

[@terryhites1]

No, I did not say ignore the warnings.... I was saying tone down the hype...

[@willschultz5452]

I hate those saddle valves also and they are used constantly!

[@waptek2]

12:00 in electronics the equivalent is ONLY temporary as it WILL fail over time ,,, & that's with audio connectors even

[@AmericanDrainWorks]

I am a plumber and see these parts installed all the time. Drives me crazy. I am sending instructions on how to install an undersink drain along with this video so that they know what they can and can't do and why. Thank you.

[@jeffostroff]

Glad to help Connie!

[@johnricci7264]

Very glad to see your comments about saddle valves. I had a bad experience with one of those years ago. When they get old and the rubber goes, they ALL eventually leak. Another problem you can have is if you put one on a pipe upside down (with the needle piercing the bottom of the pipe. If there is any sediment in the pipe, and there usually is, the sediment clogs the needle. I just rebuilt a house that had three saddles in the basement - two for humidifiers on the heating/cooling systems (don't get me started on those as they are just mold generators) and one for a refrigerator ice maker. Got rid of the humidifiers and their valves, and replaced the ice maker supply line with a T with a quarter turn shut off. Some of the stuff that the plumbers did when they built this place was unbelievable. They must have been real amateurs.

[@jeffostroff]

Yes, your method is the way to do it. That's what a real plumber would do when the come in to fix it.

[@danweeden9285]

Hi Jeff. First want to say I appreciate you taking the time to make these videos. I know the motivation is to educate people on the correct way to do plumbing. However, I do agree with a few of the other guys here, that while you may not intend to, you do come across with an attitude about "all" handymen and DIYers. Now don't get me wrong, I'm not some powder-puff with hurt feelings. I'm a "supposed-to-be-retired" general contractor with over 40 years in the business. I need to keep my hands busy so I now operate a Handyman business here in Reno, NV. There are a "few" of us out there that do excellent work and take a lot of pride in our skill and love to help people out. One of my values is that I believe a person can learn something new every day if they have the heart to learn. Heck, I've got 40 years of experience, which includes working right alongside my subs so I could learn some of the tricks that make the difference between an amateur and a pro. One of the first plumbing tricks I learned, like 40 years ago, is the "white bread" trick. I learned that from an 85-year-old-plumber that was doing some side-work for me. I had a dilemma, you know what it was, so I asked a professional plumber and he was more than happy to share his "secrets" with me. I won't go into detail about the trick, I'll leave it to you; you're the plumber! I also know a lot of code. But am I a scholar on the plumbing code? No! I didn't know about the S-trap. Now I know, thanks to you! Maybe in the future, you can structure your words so they don't belittle the DIYer. After all, they are also just trying to learn something new. And maybe say, "Some" handymen :) BTW - I agree with you on that horrible Husky Sleeve Puller. (I've always called it a ferrule) I also bought that, because I was on my way to a late-night emergency call and it was all I could find at Home Depot. It's awkward, no leverage, and clumbsy, no matter which notch you use. I personally like the English Tool Co. Dual Thread puller. Pretty much looks like the last one you demonstrated. Just couldn't tell if yours has their patented dual thread nut. Thanks again for taking the time to teach. You've got a new subscriber!

[@jeffostroff]

Thanks for your insight Dan and yes I also use the English tool company ferrule puller and I also put up a video in the past about the plumbers bread trick which was meant of course with a bunch of arrogance from some of the pro plumbers. I will be uploading a video soon that compares several options for removing a stuck ferrule.

[@burningrock_]

Took a little offense at the handyman slander (I do rental maintenance so I could be considered a "handyman"), but you also made me more confident in my plumbing abilities since I've never taken these shortcuts and I've always gone out of my way to remove and replace accordion traps. Good video 👍🏻

[@dansanger5340]

Interesting video. I'm a DIYer who used one of those accordion pipes one time. I wasn't proud of it, and wouldn't do it again, but it was easy. It's been in service for over ten years with no problems, so I'm in no hurry to replace it. Funny thing is that it isn't really needed. It's a pretty straight run. I was too lazy to drive to the hardware store to get a regular piece of pipe.

[@jeffostroff]

Dan, at least you're aware of it and know to be on the lookout for leaks, and you can change it whenever you want with minimal effort. Some of the older ladies we try to help don't know anything about what to do, or can't afford to hire someone to fix it. You're one of the lucky ones with no failures.

[@PJBonoVox]

@@jeffostroff I suppose the irony is that the more you stretch it, the less restrictive it would be. Still poor though.

[@rc67b]

I am so glad I found this video. We are in the middle of a kitchen and bathroom remodel and our contractor installed a form n fit p trap under our vanity. I checked Ohio pluming codes and it is the same as Florida. We paid way to much money for this kind of work. I will be calling him Monday morning to address this. Thank you for this great video.

[@jeffostroff]

Awesome, glad you checked on the codes, not everyone does, certainly not the installer.

[@zorecati]

I love videos where someone makes a point and then has a source to back that point up. Well done. With that said, I have no idea why i'm watching this, but heck, I learned something.

[@jeffostroff]

Good learning experience, thanks for watching

[@abomatefera6828]

I am working as building maintenance. What you taught us here really really amazing. I loved your presentation. I am always struggling with all you mentioned and I loved your recommendations. I loved your English and surprised you bought a tool just to teach. Thank you so much. Aboma

[@jeffostroff]

Aboma, thanks for watching, and I'm glad this helps

[@Woohchaiell]

What do think about using a sharkbite valve instead of a solder on outdoor faucet bib? Not on the main water line

[@jeffostroff]

I would much rather install a compression valve than a Shark Bite. I only use shark Bites for temporary use or for converting from old illegal polybutylene pipes to copper, there is no other solution than using a shark bite poly to copper fitting. But I would only install a shark bite fitting outside a wall, never inside a wall, in case there's a leak you want to know about it soon.

[@angelacruz71]

Gawd i wish i watched this video a month ago. Had a stuck ferrule at a tenants house. I didn't know what it was called or that it could even come off. I changed the valve and couldnt figure out why it was still leaking. Called a plumber and he took a look and said the teflon was the problem. Oops. I took off the teflon but it leaked even more. Thought i damaged the valve with the teflon so i changed it again! Lol it still leaked! I figured it was that screw on cap that i couldnt take off so i gave up and called a different plumbing co. And they took off that ferrule thing that i didnt know could come off. They used that blue handle pliers though. They didnt use the ones you showed. Expensive lesson. Now i know what to buy and how to use it. Thank you so very much for putting these videos out. Im learning alot!

[@jeffostroff]

Awesome Angela. The plumbers that used the channelocks from what you described, that is a risky move because you can deform the pipe when you squeeze tight around the ferrule, rather than pull the ferrule straight out off the pipe from behind it with a duck puller tool or the Husky tool. Certainly a novice should not attempt that trick without a lot of practice in being gentle, and gently coaxing that ferrule off the pipe. Especially when it is stuck. the more stuck it is, the more force you have to use with pliers to try to remove it, which is why having that specific tool for this job works best

[@AlGoYoSu]

As a first time home owner I have noticed many shortcuts taken by a DIY kind of person, particularly in the plumbing aspect. The house had one of those accordian style traps in the master bath, the inspector reccomended replacement so I did. There is also a saddle valve tapped underneath the kitchen sink. I previously didn't know this was against code (apparently my home inspector didn't either), thank you for sharing this information. It hasn't started leaking yet, and I'm going to get it out of there sooner than later.

[@jeffostroff]

Glad to see you're getting smart about all this. Just monitor the saddle valve, you can change it at your leisure, or if you do a remodel. We are remodeling my friend's kitchen right now, will be changing out all the valves to new water valves. Also a few weeks ago we uploaded a video on how to avoid the Saddle Valve, using 2 other alternatives, see it here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/jXyuo4h_g7aglbc

[@claudguam6660]

Nice video, quick question what’s the best way to clean the kitchen drain lines. I have a1 1/2 inches pvc drain line that is getting clogged all the time there’s any kind off liquid or something to clean? Thank you

[@jeffostroff]

No liquid cleaner of any kind ever works outside the commercial. In the bathroom I use that dollar plastic tool that that goes down he drain and claws back all the hair out.

[@ElectronSpark]

When I remodeled my bathroom I taught myself (from youtube videos) to sweat pipe fittings so I sweated on threaded adapters on all the water outlets. It's a handy skill to have for DIY and if the valve ever needs to be replaced, it can be done in minutes.

[@jeffostroff]

That's a great idea!

[@pontiacg445]

It's sooooooo much easier to solder new stuff than old stuff. You'll be heating for a lot longer, boiling the lines dry!

[@jackcarr177]

Been a plumber for 20 years. I use #4 to remove vintage handles off of tub valves and lavatory valves that are period correct for their home. And they help to not damage the finish.

[@jeffostroff]

Yes, I would imagine they will grip behind those larger handles a lot better than that mall area on the back of a shut valve nut.

[@MrKevsmith63379]

My drain is in the concrete floor facing upward. I'm not sure what else I could use other than an S or P trap? Nothing is lining up either and the accordion fitting was the most logical but after seeing this.... what would you suggest?

[@jeffostroff]

Build it out in pieces like we did here in this other video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/mJCyhJqtpdmYiJY "P-Trap Installation Drain Doesn’t Line Up Bathroom Sink Pipe"

[@nathayes123]

I do a lot of basic/moderate-level-difficulty DIY projects around my house. This video has been an eye opener for me. I didn't realize that HD and Lowes would sell non-code compliant products (I checked, and they are still selling a few of the products in your video). Thanks for an informative video.

[@jeffostroff]

Glad to help nate!

[@mekkler]

Of course Lowes, Home Depot sell this junk. They are not in the business of protecting adults from themselves.

[@hosedude70]

Glald to know about the saddle valve. I have one for the water line to fridge which is not hooked up. Going to get it done right way.

[@petergrupp5987]

Jeff when changing the angle shut-off, is there anything wrong with re-useing the old compression nut and ferrell?

[@jeffostroff]

You can keep it there. I prefer to change everything with all new parts.

[@petergrupp5987]

Thanks

[@salcidojosiah]

I'm a youtube certified accordion P-trap professional installer. And I love those things.

[@jeffostroff]

Come to the dark side!

[@veltonmeade1057]

I have form and fit p-trap underneath my bathroom sink.

[@HeimirTomm]

I just came across this, watched it and immidiately subscribed. Now, I live in Europe so we don't have the same codes (S bends are allowed here) but all that I've seen so far makes perfect sense to me. I have remodelled quite a few houses in my time but the one thing I ALWAYS do is to get a qualified plumber and electrician to look over my work before I close anything. Thanks for this video, it was enlightening.

[@jeffostroff]

Thanks, I'm glad you liked it!

[@MRM-wp4gr]

I have changed many water shut offs over the years that were compression, and I have never once needed to remove that copper sealing ring that is stuck in place. I just leave it as it is and reuse the original nut and ring. I make sure that it's tight....works every time, and never leaks. If it wasn't leaking before, it won't be leaking after you change it if it is done right. The nuts and rings are all the same size for 1/2" copper pipe

[@jeffostroff]

Yes indeed, nothing wrong with doing it your way as long as you re-compress nice and tight and no leaks. I just like to start with all new blank canvas, all parts brand new, the sleeve has only been compressed once, when I compress it brand new. Besides, each new angle stop comes with a new compression sleeve so why not use it. Also, many properties I work on are foreclosures, or neglected properties, prior water damage, high moisture in bathrooms, where the angle stops have gotten corroded, and the copper pipe coming out of the wall is corroded, so I remove everything, and "sand it" with Scotchbrite to polish it off nice and shiny brand new copper, then install all the new parts. Looks like a million bucks, and top it off with a brand new decorative flange as well.

[@court2379]

Exactly why go to the effort. I have also found if they have a very small leak, if you leave it tight overnight they often seal up. The metal must creep under the stress and seal. Found the same with black pipe and gas lines too, though it has to be a really small leak to have a chance as steel doesn't creep as much. 40min to get the compression ring off I would have just hacksawed it most of the way thru and broken it open in 15min. Cut at an angle and don't nick the pipe. I always put npt ends for the stop valves and then I don't have to fiddle with those compression rings. NPT is easy to replace and they never leak. I have had too many compression ones that do leak.

[@jeffostroff]

@@court2379 I also like to test all of my installations with hot water flowing through the pipes afterwards and especially the plastic cups it makes everything expand out and then shrink back later when you switch to the cold water that were you have fully exercised the installation.

[@fixitmann6685]

You will someday run into one where it WAS leaking at the nut, and the nut is corroded, and there is no way you can re-use it. Typically if there's room, you can just cut off the pipe and use the new compression ring with a new nut. If there's not room, you'll have to do something else, such as try to remove the ring and get the new one to hold onto the (often corroded) pipe, or use a push-on fitting, or tear into the wall to replace the pipe and leave enough pipe sticking out for several refittings after cutting the ring off.

[@CGT80]

On commercial properties, I found old valves/nuts that did not match the threads on new angle stops. I like to start out new, but sometimes would reuse a nut and ferule if it would seal up. The way to remove a ferule is with a professional splitting tool. It is also heavy cast aluminum with a nipple to go inside the copper tube and a blade that is turned into the ferule. Small channel lock pliers easily turn the bolt on the blade (it isn't a hex, but has external splines). Far too often, the old valve was installed so tightly that it deformed the tube and it wasn't possible to seat a new ferule on it. If there is enough tube, I would cut behind the old nut and use a new compression valve or just sweat on a 1/2" threaded male copper adapter and use a threaded valve. Property managers were happy to have us replace all of the valves and supply lines when getting a suite ready for new tenants, as the bill for us to professionally clean up, treat, and repair water damage was much higher. The buildings were built with flexible hard lines built into the angle stops and they were prone to leaking.

[@misium]

2:44 yeah, not quite capillary. Venturi effect, based on Bernoulli's Principle - fast moving fluid (such as air) drops pressure, creating suction. Air driven spray guns work like that.

[@jeffostroff]

That is correct

[@tomevans202]

I’ve changed 35 or 40 of these copper pipe angle stops and i usually notice an indentation around the pipe where the ferrule was. If I don’t have enough length to cut the indentation off, I even go to the trouble of soldering a couple inches of copper pipe on to make sure that the indentation doesn’t cause a leak. What is your advice on this issue

[@jeffostroff]

That is exactly the way I do it

[@---wl3bi]

Stuff all this soldering bring on the push fit fittings, I've used a similar saddle type valve assembly on refrigeration pipework, never had a problem, no leaks and I believe 20 years on still OK

[@plumbmaster7022]

- - maybe if you never turn on or off they be OK.

[@isettech]

Saddle valves are not hermetic seals and do have a slow bleed through the gasket. Saddle piercing valves are only used today for refrigerant recovery on small hermetic sealed refrigeration systems such as window AC, refrigerators, ice machines, and water coolers.

[@gcarmona66]

I've used the faucet handle sleeve puller, tool #1, to remove a sleeve that was stuck pretty tight. But I did not use the two side brackets, I removed them, and used the tool in a similar fashion as tool #3 in your video. I inserted the pointy tip of the tool into the pipe coming out of the wall and started threading the nut onto the threaded end of the tool by hand. Once it was too tight to thread the nut by hand, I used a wrench to turn the tool and thread the nut all the way out along with the sleeve. I did not have any room to turn the tool handle because the old valve was behind a stand type sink and so I used a wrench to turn the tool. I think the side brackets are supposed to be used for pulling a faucet handle, not for pulling a sleeve (ferrule).

[@jeffostroff]

Yes we ran into problem because with truly stuck ferrule sleeves, this tool can be a problem.

[@EricJD1966]

Yes. Remove the top part no need for arms - you are not supposed to use them as you aren’t pulling the nut. There are videos on line how to use this type of tool to remove a compression ring.

[@cliffsheets73]

Do you have an opinion on the sharkbite things? My yard guy hit my faucet and bent the pipe causing it to leak. I shut off the water to the house and he used a sharkbite coupling. It stopped the leak, but it allows the faucet to rotate.

[@jeffostroff]

I use shark bites on rare occasions like converting the old banned polybutylene pipe to copper, but I will only use Shark Bite on the outside of a wall.

[@ladyluck5248]

I’m an electrician not a plumber. Obvious to see that these plumbing solutions are crap. Lol. Thanks for the video. I should do one for electrical crap out there.

[@mr.j6913]

Eileen Kelly you should.

[@jburr36]

The same crackhead that did the plumbing in my pace also did the electrical. Green wires being used for the neutral. Exterior junction boxes without a binding ground wire. The circuit my fridge and microwave are plugged into are spliced into a knob and tube wiring (Not to mention my well pump is spliced, yes spliced, into the same circuit inside the sub panel), 220 volt wires to my stove are spliced into the original wiring that goes through an interior junction box mounted on the exterior of my house (and the splice is wrapped with electrical tape) which gets watered with my sprinkler system, Black wires being used for a neutral, a cut live wire protruding through the wall behind my water heater just hanging in the breeze, tandem breakers in a sub panel clearly not rated for them, Breakers from different manufacturers used in the sub panel..... I can go on and on. I'm not a licensed electrician but I just spent $1000 in just parts to fix that crap. I just ordered 2 AAVs to fix the non vented plumbing in my bathroom and kitchen and the S trap. If I ever find that stupid son of a b*tch who remodeled this house to flip it I'm going to sue him

[@ladyluck5248]

jburr36 report it to your electrical safety authorities and get a lawyer.

[@jburr36]

@@ladyluck5248 I'll deal with that after I do the repairs. I didn't even realize these issues existed until I inspected my sub panel when considering designing and pricing a solar power system. Seeing that mess just made me sick to my stomach. I do have pictures

[@unti419]

I'm a retired electrician. I don't do videos but if I did the first one would be about the dangers of plugging a generator into a dryer plug. I've seen people do this and as you know, it can cause linemen down the road to have really bad day. Linemen should and do ground every conductor before they touch it but this could energize lines all over the neighborhood unless the main breaker is off. Code requires a permanent mechanical interlock to prevent generators from sending power to utility lines.

[@nwhome9615]

The reason why there is so many DIY plumbers is because plumbers charge so dam much for a simple fix or change 🤷‍♂️

[@jeffostroff]

I think everyone should know how to do simple stuff, then when you need to solder in a new main valve outside, you call in the pros.

[@nwhome9615]

@@jeffostroff Totally agree with you on that on

[@billywoodman60]

Your house is your investment. Do you want it done right?? Or half ass?? Plumbing prices are what the living wage is for where you and they live. If not they should be reported to the BBB. I'm fare with my customers. I just don't work for free. I have to eat and pay bills just like any other business or trade. Sorry. Not to be funny but, I like steak and lobster just like everyone else does.

[@hosedude70]

Obviously you are not a business owner. Hopefully your paying for experience and expertise. What is your time worth at you job ?

[@ef7480]

Incorrect. You pay the right price for someone else's skill and knowledge. They weren't born with these skills, they have to train to do it. I bet you wouldn't use the same theory if you had to go to court, ie, you could always try do it yourself for free.

[@ThatGuyFromNantucket06]

MA state plumber here, I run into this handyman/home owner fixes a lot. Those trap adapters on the horizontal are frowned upon by inspectors. If we have to use one due to clearance issues we have to glue the pipe to the trap adapter so no leaks will form. Its a bit over kill but what can you do.

[@jeffostroff]

Right we glue the trap adapters onto the waste line going into the wall as well, they are not designed to be left unglued.

[@jamesbickford3294]

Florida does not use the Uniform Plumbing Code. The original base code for the Florida Code was the International Plumbing code. Your video is very informative. Many people ask why the big box stores are allowed to sell products that are banned by the codes, the answer is because the code does not regulate product sales, only product installation.

[@jeffostroff]

Yes this is what we have answered many people in the comments

[@jaycecounts1212]

Studying for my exam in Florida and I got scared for a minute….lol thanks for reconfirming Florida does in fact use the IPC

[@VBlackadder]

Great information....hopefully the DIY people will learn from this. One thing to keep in mind for your future videos....Methane gas is Odorless. Methane is usually present in sewer gasses but it's not the one that smells bad.

[@jeffostroff]

and it's odorless and tasteless, so I wonder which gas it is that we smell when we open up the p-traps

[@andyowens5494]

jeffostroff Sulphides. Most commonly hydrogen sulphide.

[@mikemensinger5763]

natural gas (methane and other hydro-carbons) service has an odorant mixed into the service lines, so we tend to identify a gas leak with that gas smell. That's done on purpose :) I agree with Andy Owens, some kind of sulfur compound will be what smells.

[@fastwigreviewwithlisabee8598]

My man is a professional plumber... This information will help me understand the conversations we have when he talks about work. Thank you 😁

[@cbajorek]

I am general contractor, never used saddle valves myself, I remember when I moved to my house I had 3 of them and my first thought was to replace them, but that I thought "let's see how long they are going to last?" - 19 years later: not a single drop of water, not a single problem ....

[@jeffostroff]

Christopher, yes it seems to be hit or miss, some people have problem, while others get lucky. It's like the 80 year old guy who smoked all his life doesn't get lung cancer, but a girl in her 30 dies from it.

[@dleggs7038]

As a home inspector and dreaded "handyman" I see HVAC guys install those all the time on whole house humidifiers. We always recommend replacing them as they have a tendency to leak more often. Also, take it easy on us handy guys...we're no all idiots and sweating copper & gluing PVC isn't rocket surgery!

[@jeffostroff]

@@dleggs7038 you got it!

[@dleggs7038]

@@jeffostroff , appreciate your content and time you put in to the vids.

[@92hbhb]

I had one in my home when I bought it.. They tapped it for the humidifier at the furnace.. Never leaked or had a problem for the 8 yrs I owned the home. But the dam water heater decided to leak 4 months b4 I sold the house.

[@mothman-jz8ug]

I am NOT running my drain (or anything else) inside and outside wall. ALSO, from a P trap, doesn't the pipe turn down? Like it drains by gravity, you know? I wish you could explain the method that water could be sucked from an S, but not from the P.

[@jeffostroff]

the water can't be siphoned from a P-trap because that horizontal p-trap arm that connects to the horizontal waste line going to the wall slows down the inertia of the water, thus breaking the siphoning effect. The S-Trap can siphon itself because the output of an S-trap usually goes straight down vertical, and when you have a long vertical drop after the S-trap with a short vertical drop before the S-trap, that is a recipe for increased water inertia, and so the it can siphon itself. I plan to do a video soon to show how S-traps can siphon themselves.

[@joemoreno2029]

Im a journeymen plumber here in cali, and been in the trade for many years. This guy is right on point with his info. Saddle valves are junk that leak even you lightly bump accidentally especially if theyre corroded. Sadly yes home dump does sell these products. Any handymen trying to make a quick buck will sell you these items not knowing how long it will last or by a few months from now your gonna cause water damage somewhere because all these are cheap and end up leaking. Now with all the damages because a Diyer or a handymen caused you now have to call your home warranty company. Your home warranty company is gonna send their plumber and either say this is the home owners bad or its wear and tear.

[@jeffostroff]

Home Dump! that's good one I had not heard before. I usually call them Home Desperate or Home Cheapo.

[@joemoreno2029]

In a tight situation were my parts house is closed...I'll take home dump over lowes...lol

[@DartzIRL]

Interesting on the S-trap. Here, the standards are written to control venting of the stacks instead to prevent the trap being sucked. Either by having a vent stack nearby, or air admittance valves, and advising on the size and location of vent lines and valves.

[@angiecarter7327]

Geezzz my 92yo mothers house has the S trap. The trap came apart from the pipe exiting the stink. It's a goner. Problem is...someone glued the nut on the part before the curve into the floor. The house is in ill condition and not worth living in but she won't move. So I'm gonna just do what I can with a P trap. Making Sure of the vent and adequate water fill. I guess.... P.s. I'm an arthritic riddled 64yo woman who used to do it all. Mom doesn't realize what it does to me but I'm the only of 3 who helps her. I hope you enjoyed the book and now I can't remember the purpose of this DIY. 🤷‍♀️ Have a blessed day!

[@wizardglick1]

A lot of professionals rig stuff up and take short cuts, not just handymen. Conscientious people do it responsibly.

[@esemiklo5833]

BINGO!!

[@christheother9088]

As a handyman I've repaired lots of bad work done by licensed plumbers and electricians.

[@coryszeman8572]

Mobile home companies pass crap materials and workmanship all the time too lol

[@WhirlybirdFlyer]

"Handyman special" is a term used in the industry to refer to work done by someone who doesn't know what they are doing and does not necessarily refer to handymen. As a Florida plumber I have seen a lot of shoddy work from all over the spectrum.

[@garyK.45ACP]

If your definition of "professional" is "Gets paid for doing it", yes, you are correct. That's a pretty low standard.

[@Maria_Moon_Angel]

You are freaking awesome, I love when people do things right the first time and share their knowledge with us that want to do the same Im a DIYer and its funny to see the people that always have something negative to say, but I say "where's your video?" If they have so much to say, obviously they can do it to perfection teach us lowly peasants, haha! Ive only watched 3 of your videos because of plumbing problems my family and I are having, you have integrity and care about us and the customers you have, I trust the information you give and because of that, you've earned my subscribe, thank you💚

[@josephcirelli9642]

Found your channel about 2 months ago and love the content! Scored the craftsman 105 pc gun metal set for $47.98. And found out about the Lowe’s 10% off cards on EBay. Now, the items not to use for plumbing. Really liked the wrench in this video so I bought from your description. Thanks so much Jeff! Can’t wait to see your next video!

[@jeffostroff]

Glad to help Joseph!

[@Beastphilosophy]

A previous owner did a whole bunch of work on my house around 2007, and we discovered it about two and a half years ago. The bathtub drain clogged about once a week. When I had the bathroom remodeled, it had one of those flexi drain pipes. The downstairs laundry drained into an S trap which we discovered after the drain clogged and soaked the downstairs. When we removed the damaged drywall, the nearby bathroom had upside down plumbing to the shower. Someone clearly did a fantastic job!

[@jeffostroff]

On bathtubs, you usually find the overflow drain is a flexible pipe, which is OK, since if it mainly used as an air vent. The only time that pipe would ever see water is during an overflow. But if the main tub drain at the bottom of the tub was flexible, then you have a problem for sure, that is a clear violation of plumbing codes.

[@Beastphilosophy]

@@jeffostroff Oh it was flexi all the way to the drain pipe running down through the wall. I'm pretty sure the whole thing would have failed code even with a normal piece of pipe.

[@jeffostroff]

@@Beastphilosophy Yikes, so it looks like the previous "plumber", for lack of a better word was too lazy or did not know how to cement PVC fittings and pipes together. I hope you had it replaced with the real deal when you had the remodel done. The other thing that makes me cringe when I see these stories is all the wasted junk that has to end up in the landfill because the job is essentially being done twice now.

[@iPlaneFun]

My plumber never returned to re-work my plumbing after they installed a dishwasher. So I got sick of not using the new dishwasher. I wish I found your videos on the j-flex no-no before I did the job. It works, but I had a feeling it wasn’t right. Thinking to myself the ridges are going to catch everything. I’ll re-do the plumbing and know what to do thanks to your other video on off-set drain connections. Found and subscribed to your channel due to your outstanding Champlain Towers reporting. Now when everyone says “you tube it” for home repairs - you are the go to! Thanks!

[@sgardner4313]

Thanks so much for this vid. I'd considered one of the flex-traps for a custom vanity where the sink hole was slightly offset. I ended up redrilling the sink hole to make it line up, and now I'm glad I did. Now my problem is an old cast-iron toilet pipe that extends up over the floor and was beaten down over the closet flange....

[@jeffostroff]

Ooooh, cast iron, we've played that game a few times, I hate it. They develop hole sin the pipes like cancer, and sewer gas leaks in the houses.

[@sgardner4313]

@@jeffostroff *sigh* Oh great. And if I wanted to replace that I'd have to rip up the entire floor and find out where it connects? I don't know, it's super-old and doesn't seem to have holes, fortunately. However, the pipe narrows as it goes down, causing all sort of other problems (like... trying to fit in a new flange, even one of those made to be inserted into those pipes).

[@MannyFontes1968]

FYI, not all handyman do bad work as you say with that "handyman special" dig you mentioned on the accordion quick fix. I've been a handyman for many years and have had to correct mistakes that supposid licensed and professional plumbers had done only to have the customer complain to me about their shoddy work. I'm doing a remodel now that a previous plumber used that exact P-trap on a bath vanity just to cut corners. Not only that, but he re-ran all new plumbing in this house and didn't even remove the old supply valves and it looks like crap next to the new ones.

[@jeffostroff]

Well, you shouldn't be offended, because you're not the guy that installs those incorrect parts. But, I also doubt whether real plumbers put those accordions in. Maybe they were put in after fact by someone else? Unless the city inspectors missed it... But yes you're right plumbers do sometimes get sloppy, keep in mind most of the construction of new houses might be permitted by license plumbers, but their worker bees are sometimes not the most talented, and I too have had to fit fix many plumbing issues done wrong by builders plumbers.

[@MannyFontes1968]

@@jeffostroff I wasn't offended but was only making a point and in my case, my customer paid a plumber and that was the result. I agree that yes, not all work is done by the licensed guy but I would think that he would at least check the work of his guys.

[@jeffostroff]

@@MannyFontes1968 A local plumber that I have used in the past would stop by the job near the end and make sure the work was done by his guys properly.

[@Jack-Surreal_Panes]

Used these on many occasions. 10 years later, went to a home, still there and functioning fine. Sure , will hard pipe but some of these older homes have been altered so much a plumber will charge outrageous prices. Local plumber charged $80 to replace a toilet flat valve.

[@jeffostroff]

@@Jack-Surreal_Panes That's why I tell people that learn how to change their own flappers

[@rickhoupt6933]

Nice video, I wished there were more solutions for the “wrong” one’s. I am currently doing a Tub install on concrete slab. Same size tub but new tub drain is about 1 1/2” offset from trap which is attached via fernco to led 1 1/2”. As is there’s no way to line up. Whats the best way to handle offset besides flex tail piece? Thanks for your input

[@louierodriguez1630]

Great information. Found out I had one of these illegal devices after noticing my sink draining slowly.

[@jeffostroff]

Did you get it fixed? what did you replace it with?

[@ztuber7763]

I shifted my vanity over a few inches and had to use the accordion hi line at 10:25. I'm a diy and couldn't find any regular pvc to use as a solution plus the pipe going into the wall is wider than standard so my options are limited. I can confirm that gunk does accumulate in the flex and stinks after a while. When i get around to it, i'll see if i can find a better solution. Thought of using plastic tubing, and using a sealant, but they aren't flexible enough

[@jeffostroff]

Yes, this is why forming the exact length and path using the PVC fittings is critical.

[@rydfree]

The "Snappy " traps are flexible yet smooth on the inside and code approved . They work very well . They do have to installed properly however or you may create another issue which can violate code .

[@1942nn]

I had similar problems when installing new sinks (7 total in my home for near complete remodeling). I bought ABS tubes, fittings, ABS glue, and it took me a few days of trial and errors to get the first one done correctly (meaning everything line up and glued properly. The remaining six become quite easy as I know what parts to use and the proper sequence to connect and glue them. To get exact length and path, I connect but do not glue. then cut if too long or cut another piece of too short. Only when they fit properly then I start gluing.

[@sergioramos6913]

Thanks!

[@jeffostroff]

Thanks for the tip Sergio!

[@adriver3528]

You don't need a tool to remove a ferrule (olive in UK) Jeff - fine hacksaw across the width until nearly through, flat blade screwdriver in the cut, twist and it's off.

[@jeffostroff]

You guys are very talented over there. when you see some of the sloppy work I find in some properties, you'll not want to see certain people with a hack saw trying this delicate surgery. I'm more concerned that they'll cut through the pipe. At least the tools I showed you are effortless and quick with no hack sawing back and forth.

[@hardrock1826]

A Driver When I saw the video, I was going to recommend the same thing as you. That's how I do it as well. Got my small bladed bow hacksaw, never fails.

[@jeffostroff]

@@hardrock1826 Isn't it easier to just pull it off with the duck puller tool than it is to sit there and hack back-and-forth with the saw?

[@hardrock1826]

@@jeffostroff Perhaps, I have never tried that. But it only takes seconds really the way I have always done it. That ferrule is soft material, that allows a better seal and it's very thin. It doesn't take much to score the surface and pop it off. Like anything, once you do it for a while and develop your technique, it becomes automatic.

[@jeffostroff]

@@hardrock1826 Maybe I'll do a video this week on that try both methods have you ever accidentally cut into the pipe with the saw?

[@whitetiger8652]

Thanks Jeff, all great info but in the case of the saddle valve you showed that its a code violation but you did not show what the correct procedure was which would have been very helpful as I have a couple of these in my house and I can solder. Thanks for your time anyway Jeff.

[@jeffostroff]

My preferred method for avoiding the saddle valve is to get a double angle stop under the kitchen sink, like this one below, then you don't have to solder, just tighten this onto the pipe. www.homedepot.com/p/BrassCraft-1-2-in-Nominal-Inlet-x-3-8-in-O-D-Comp-x-1-4-in-O-D-Dual-Outlet-Dual-Shut-Off-1-4-in-Turn-Angle-Ball-Valve-KTCR1900DVX-R1/203309317

[@scurling2993]

It's called $$$$$. Also, items such as the saddle valve can be used, as intended, in areas other than house plumbing. Are other type connections better for the long term, yes, of course, but the saddle valve does provide a quick, low flow, connection tap.

[@seadog915]

​@@jeffostroff That's exactly what I was gonna suggest,either that or replace the sink valve with a 3/8"+1/4"outlet,depending on what you are hooking up.

[@mlindholm]

I used a compression tee, with a rubber seal on the female side, just like the flexible lines themselves use: Plumb Works® 3/8"Female Compression x 3/8"Compression x 3/8"Compression Supply Tee at Menards www.menards.com/main/p-1444437569319.htm Or for ice makers (1/4" line) Plumb Works® 3/8"Female Compression x 3/8"Compression x 1/4"Compression Supply Tee at Menards www.menards.com/main/p-1444437569216.htm

[@fitbuff7665]

Thank you ! I am a DIYer but I still like to follow the codes, I appreciate your advice. I am also thankful for your explanation of the codes.

[@tomcole3846]

Venturi effect, lad. Capillary action is how solder wick works, or a paper towel. I am enjoying this! Watched further and the floss was also an excellent example of capillary action.

[@uhmgawa6533]

How does that occur with typical "waxed" dental floss??

[@pontiacg445]

@@uhmgawa6533 Venturi effect is pressure differential causing flow, like a carburetor. For an s-trap the drain is the carb jet, and the toilet drain or otherwise is the bore of the carb. Capillary action is surface tension causing the flow, maybe with a slight side of gravity siphoning. Waxed dental floss probably makes it worse, it's hygroscopic so the water beads up and increases the tension all the more. Like watching raindrops on the windshield, they sit and pool till they get too big, then they streak down all at once, draining the entire drop. Surface tension held it there, and surface tension drags it all down.

[@johnmurray9422]

I've looked down the thread here and several Brits have rightly commented that the quickest and easiest method of removing a ferrule (olive) is to cut a diagonal groove across it with a junior hacksaw until nearly through, then inset a flat blade screwdriver in that groove and twist. Replies have suggested this may be in some way difficult, or liable to damage the pipe. It takes only 7 or 8 passes with the saw to give the depth of cut needed and it pops off easily. There is no need for special tools which will often not fit in the kind of restricted spaces plumbers work in all the time anyway, when such a quick, simple and foolproof method is available to anyone regardless of skill level.

[@jeffostroff]

"regardless of skill level.", LOL John I've seen some really stupid people out there. Even good friends who are dumber than a door nail that I've gone to help do repairs in their house, they could never handle that. Sure it's a good idea for those who know how to do it, but not for Joe Sixpack

[@deadmanprodinc]

Thank you, I've come to learn that the path of least resistance and/or going the cheapest route is often not the answer. You've proved that in 4-different ways, and there's more....good job setting us straight!

[@jeffostroff]

Thanks glad to help!

[@mattmonaghan3354]

Whoa whoa back the truck up. A few years ago I was told I had to install S traps instead of P traps that's coming from my city inspector. I'm in Michigan.

[@craig3342]

that is because you are in Michigan...

[@d5whilmer]

As a plumber for 30+ yrs. I have to agree with almost everything you taught in this video. What I didn't understand was two-fold. Why would anyone try to use something as flimsy as a handle puller to try to remove a compression nut and ferrule? Why pull it in the first place? Dope and tape on the new angle stop will merry up very well with the old nut and ferrule. Only time I've ever change the compression ferrule is on very old copper and there is damage to the copper or old ferrule. Many times having to resort to getting my tiny tim out and saw off the old ferrule because of too little copper exposure between the wall escutcheon and end of the copper. Show em how to do that...not easy but, I've done it many times.

[@jeffostroff]

Hilmer: Husky touts this tool as a handle puller and a sleeve puller. They even have 2 sets of instructions on the back for whichever mode you use it in. A lot of properties I deal with have corrosion on the pipes or the old valve stop, so I always change the ferrule by policy anyway. The new valve comes with a new ferrule so why not use it. I always remove it, polish off the copper pipe nice and shiny, and install everything brand new again.

[@ChrisGilliamOffGrid]

I stopped using compression stops a couple of years ago. Sharkbites at the toilet. Easy to change. Also can take it off to change the escutcheon. Sometimes I use a sweat on stop, because it can be sweated off. Biggest problem is idiots cutting the stub out off all the way back at the wall. That pisses me off cuz I use chrome plated supply lines at toilets.

[@ronmexico79]

@@ChrisGilliamOffGrid sharkbites at the toilet is hack come on man

[@ChrisGilliamOffGrid]

@@ronmexico79 Nope. I do million dollar homes. The competition stubs out blue PEX and uses crimp on stops at toilet, with braided line. That is garbage. A copper stub out, sharkbite stop, and chrome supply line is by far the best looking way to do it.

[@phantomcreamer]

I ordered a jet tub that comes with a flexible pipe to hook up the drain. Is it okay for tubs?

[@jeffostroff]

Yes, they seem to use those on the overflow and it's OK, probably because overflow is not the main drain it might get used once a year.

[@phantomcreamer]

@@jeffostroff It comes right from my bottom drain, not the overflow though.

[@nelson2231]

The husky tool works fine when used correctly. First you have to use all of the parts. The most critical is the one that rolled off of your table when you picked up the tool. That was the insert that fits the tool to the end of the pipe just like your other tool does. The wings are not used for sleeve pulling, just faucet handles. It doesn't have the leverage that the wrench driven one does, but will easily pull all but the most stubborn sleeves.

[@wonjuchoi9941]

Agreed. I though the same way Jeff did, but I read the manual again and found I need to put the round insert and screw. No wings are necessary here.

[@brianreinhardt4050]

Isn't it funny a "qualified" and "licensed" plumber is too inept to read instructions...and then complain about the tool he used improperly.

[@NoppeNband]

@@brianreinhardt4050 hey mr. bob villa, no one is perfect and the instructions are not very clear. I used it wrong at first too, its a consumer grade tool not something pros would buy (and I had an emergency repair to make, HD only had that tool available, so it had to work)

[@pjmazar4533]

Lots of good information on things I come across quite often in my remodeling business. It gives me plenty of repair work. Though I have my own method of removing the brass sleeves, I think you missed something when using the Husky tool. The L arms should rest in the 2 notches which will allow the T handle to rotate easily. Once you start to snug it up, you can grip the L arms around the nut.

[@jeffostroff]

Great point! But, the newer instructions don't have you using those arms at all, just the middle part of the tool that screws ontot he compression nut.

[@EpicBenjo]

I haven’t used that Husky puller before but it looks like you’re supposed to put those two metal arms into the notches? That way you aren’t hurting your hands to hold the two arm pieces together?

[@jeffostroff]

Yes, but they have also changed the instructions since then to make it clearer

[@JohnPonzini]

In 40 years as a lawyer I have never heard of a home owners insurance company threatening to cancel a policy over using a flex p trap or anything remotely similar. I think you are out in left field overstating your case. I do agree you should not use these quick fixes.

[@jeffostroff]

John the reason you as a lawyer have not heard of this before is because it's not a legal issue. You can call me out in left field all you want, but I've been called into 3 different widow lady friend's houses because their insurance company performed a 4 point inspection on the house and called them back and threatened to cancel the insurance if the code violations were not removed. I had to take photos of the repairs to send into the insurance companies. I certainly did not imagine that. This is not a legal matter which is why you never saw it before. I would still rather have the insurance companies force me to remove code violations, than to reject my claim because of code violations.

[@chrisgraham2904]

The home insurance companies make their own rules. I had an approved wood stove installed to meet all the requirements of the building code in my workshop. I changed insurance companies one year to achieve a better rate. After four months on the new policy, the insurance company requested an inspection of the home, since all the information exchanged when the policy was established had been done verbally and through email. They said it was "just standard procedure to randomly physically check new home policies". Following inspection by the insurer's "independent risk management company", the insurer demanded that the wood stove be decommissioned within 30 days. I confirmed with the building inspector that the installation met or exceeded all of the current building codes for safe operation. There was no code violation. The insurance company continued to demand that the stove be removed or my homeowner's policy would be voided. They also noted, that no other insurance company would write a policy following the cancellation of this policy. The wood burning appliance was removed and replaced with a propane heating system at a cost of $4,000.00 . Yes....Insurance companies are making their own rules.

[@mikemichaelz135]

@@chrisgraham2904 you should have just got a new policy b4 the one in place was canceled. there are many insurance companies out there

[@chrisgraham2904]

@@mikemichaelz135 It was the new insurance company that threatened to cancel the policy. I contacted nine other insurers and all refused to write a policy with a wood stove heating the shop. One stated that they would consider a policy if they first did their own inspection, but also advised that the policy would likely carry a premium of about $1,000.00 per year.

[@fivish]

Insurance companies dont survey the house for breaches of code. The Local Planning/Building Regulation Authority does that when it signs it off. In any case, if the house was built with P traps prior to the changes in code then they are legal.

[@otisplunk2599]

In most states, insurance carriers must issue 'legal notice of cancellation' which is customarily 60 days notice. So they may give an insured 48 hours notice of their intention to issue a 60 day notice of cancellation but they can not get off the policy in 48 hours.

[@jeffostroff]

It's funny how once in a while someone comes in here with this same phrase and thinks they are a lawyer, LOL. Otis, this verbiage is for when companies decide not to renew like here in Florida all the time insurance companies drop you because they don't want to cover hurricanes anymore. What we are talking about is code violations, or you are violating the terms of the insurance policy by using parts known to cause floods. When you violate the terms of the insurance policy, they can drop you immediately. Also, many people I know who had flood damage had their insurance companies just plain old decline claim for these very reasons, so it does you no good to be paying for the insurance anyway that you can't use anyway.

[@henrykiser8880]

On the compression fitting, couldn’t use just use the existing nut and ferule when connecting the new valve?

[@jeffostroff]

Yes you can, I prefer to remove the old one and replace it with the new one that comes in the ew valve box. Gives you a great chance to examine the pipe under the old ferrule a swell.

[@jimmarcum7362]

Jeff, I actually used the Superior Brand Ferrule/handle puller last night. It was very similar to the Husky brand, if not the same. Those two puller claws are not used to pull the the ferrule off, they are used to pull faucets handles off. I watched the Superior video and those claws were only used to pull handles off. The Superior brand did the job for six pipes with no problems. Yes the the T handle could could be longer for more leverage. I noticed you omitted putting the silver insert into the pipe before coupling the puller to the nut. That is the reason why the T handle was striking the back of the puller. So I can see why you were having problems using the tool. I wish they omitted the puller claws that were used to pull handles of with. Yes the tool is awkward and uncomfortable, but it was the only one I could find in stock. I would have bought a better one if it was available, and probably will order one online for future projects. But for 11 bucks and 6 leaking stops, this tool worked great. Maybe the Husky brand instruction are different? But the pullers look identical. BTW all the stops and pipe had the green corrosion and the sleeves were on there. The way you were demonstrating using the Husky tool is my opinion was incorrect. Sorry, I usually enjoy your videos and get a lot of useful information, but this time the demonstration on how to use the cheap Husky puller missed the boat. Here is a good video for reference kzbin.info/www/bejne/bXynlmt3eLCdrcU

[@redmatrix]

I love how silent Jeff is on this.

[@dtester]

@@redmatrix He's actually responded to a few similar comments, but he seems too hard headed to except the fact that he screwed up and used the tool wrong in the video. It makes me suspect he's never used it correctly and maybe it also reveals a part of his character.

[@FreeAmerican-mm2my]

@@dtester Busted, You said except when you intended to say accept. Your failure to edit this post to speak in proper English reveals a part of your charachter.

[@dtester]

@@FreeAmerican-mm2my Omg! Nooooo!

[@hjoe4473]

You’re absolutely right. Thank you for the detailed description of how to use the tool properly.

[@drugtalk101]

I hate how Home Depot misleads people who wouldn’t know better I also hate handymen who give my business a bad name! I’ve worked for many companies in many trades and through hard honest work I’ve made a business for myself. But there are those who think you can just call yourself a handyman and watch KZbin videos for all your info! Ugh! Thanks for the informative videos!! 🤘😷🤙

[@jeffostroff]

Good to hear from one of the smart ones! I know they gotta earn a buck too, but if many of them would leave plumbing and electrical out of the equation they would be OK.

[@dessiewatkins1565]

You are so right. I only learn how to do it myself because I can't afford to pay professionals for their expertise. If I gain experience, the less trial and error, the happier I am with the savings.

[@Abonilla031]

*6 yrs plumbing. Yeah, never liked saddle valves. It creates too much work that isn't neccesssary. Rather throw on a duo 3/8 by 1/4 inch angle stop and run the line. Great vid🤙

[@luvdady]

yeah it should be called 6 months to 2 yrs insurance claim valve for your ice maker

[@brianglade848]

Or run a street coupler with a Denning valve

[@terrysmith7454]

do you have a video on getting rid of a garbage disposal for good when you have septic system it is bad to have .

[@jeffostroff]

No sorry, I have no experience with septic systems, everything in our area is all on city water.

[@craig4451]

$40 for a small cast cylinder sleeve and a bolt. That's why people go for $5 saddle valves - we can't all make $60 an hour like plumbers.

[@antidecepticon]

Verry true those bendy pipes have what i think are called in gold mining are riffles. they cause the water to do little centrifugal spins as it flow,s and the bottom of the rifle is very slow moving or stagnant so anything heavier than water falls and stays in the bottom of the valleys. So if you are a gold miner you might want these ....

[@PeterSzymanski]

What's your take on Pasco 13-2706 Compression Sleeve Puller Tool? Ever tried it?

[@jeffostroff]

I have the Pasco, recently bought it, but have not opened it yet, I plan to do a tool review video in the coming weeks, comparing it to other competing sleeve pullers.

[@BigBrotherIsTooBig]

Please don't throw all DIY'ers and Handymen into the "subpar" "don't know what they're doing category". There are DIY'ers and Handymen that will do a better job than a certified plumber and vice versa. This is not the case with just plumbing either. As an example, you stated the plumbing code is required in all 50 states. That isn't correct. My state, Missouri leaves it up to the individual counties who then either adopt a code or let the individual municipalities choose. In my municipality the code is the 2009 version, in the adjacent municipality it's 2006. There are adjacent counties that do not require it at all. I know this and I'm a DIY'er. I am remodeling my house, as a DIY'er and even though my code is 2009, I'm using 2018 for improved methods and safety.

[@mycats7321]

Good points. I'm a DIYer & I know the plumbing code better & take more care than the local plumbers. I saw the botched job the "master" plumber did at my friend's house & it was horrible. Dude put the trap on a washing machine standpipe under the floor & busted a hole in the brick wall & didn't seal around it and then had a very short run of PVC up & slapped a crappy cheap AAV on it-- OUTSIDE. He didn't have to run it through the roof but he could have run it around the soffit & above the roof. He also didn't slope the soil pipe at all so it won't drain properly. The other plumber (there are only two licensed plumbers in the area) uses the wrong fittings-- will use sanitary tees on their backs when he should be using wyes.

[@agentone8550]

Not to mention that once all the things mentioned were at one point completely viable fixes or solutions for challenges. Those taps for water lines are still commonly used. If they were totally illegal to use they wouldn't be commercially available today.

[@lmckrosen123]

BigBrotherIsTooBig Absolutely! I’m a DIYer in Missouri, too and I take a lot of time and pride in my work. Plumbers and other professionals are there to make a maximum amount with minimum effort and spend as little time as possible. Many DIYers study the code and research the best methods to complete whatever has to be done. We also have the luxury of spending as much time as necessary to do it perfectly. Plus, we’re often working on our own homes which motivates us to do it right even more!

[@mycats7321]

​@@agentone8550 That's not completely true. Stores still sell things that are code violations (such as S-traps) because there is still a demand for them. In some places AAVs are banned but are still sold. The main issue is they won't pass inspection (and may lead to leaks or failure of the DWV system), but people will still use them either for convenience or out of ignorance. Unless the manufacturing was banned, they will still be available. Doesn't mean it is good to use them. So long as a profit can be made, companies will make things and sell them regardless of whether or not they are to code or work properly.

[@seanmulholland7597]

Yea bullshit..

[@SuperFunkmasterj]

Jeff - good tips on the illegal fittings, Thanks for all that! However, I'm pretty sure you're using the husky ferrule puller tool incorrectly. The two side straps that you're holding together by hand actually don't need to be held - if you look at the crossbar at the hand-side of the tool, you'll see there's two little notches, one on either end of the cross bar. The back end of the side straps fit into those notches. Once in place and tightened up slightly, you don't need to hold the pulling straps in place - just turn the screw. Also, setting the pulling straps into those notches provides a better angle at the work end and clears the bar so it doesn't bang into the straps while turning. Agree that the other two pulling tools are more elegant and compact, but the Husky tool can be made to work.

[@jeffostroff]

Newer versions of this tool the instructions tell you not to use those side arms when you are pulling ferrules, only when pulling shower knobs.

[@Marcoosianism]

The straps are only used for knobs.

[@AndrewDay_Aston-Martin-DBS5126]

At 4:05 you show the code requirements the list 6 designs of traps that are banned. Having said why the P trap is banned why not explain what the other 5 are? Is this type of trap: 'SA10V McALPINE 32mm Anti-Vac Basin Sink Waste U Bend P Trap' good or banned (is it a 'Crown vented trap'?). My basin has a P-trap but after the trap it heads straight down and into the floor not into the wall - is that OK?

[@jeffostroff]

While the product itself is designed to high standards and may conform to various international codes, explicit confirmation of its compliance with the UPC was not found. To ensure it is allowed under UPC plumbing codes, you should verify that the SA10V has been certified by IAPMO or another recognized body for UPC compliance. But I have installed similar devices like air admittance valves, these are used when you have no plumbing stack vent from your sink going up through the roof. So they need to get air somehow and that is where your ubend comes it.

[@jamesm568]

When I was at the hardware store and I had to replace my shutoff valves there was an option for iron and copper valves so I just bought the copper valve because I have copper pipes.

[@jeffostroff]

That makes sense, you don't want dissimilar metals coming in contact and causing corrosion.

[@notsure7874]

I agree totally - but one thing has always escaped me about the flex trap thing ... why would an insurance company care? If it's leaking - it's VERY readily apparent where the leak is, and very easy and cheap to fix. It's on a sink, how much water can it leak before somebody shuts off the faucet? I just don't see it doing any real damage. If it does it's 100% homeowner neglect and should be excluded from the policy. My house had one I wasn't aware of until I had to get new insurance less than a year after I bought it. My agent is an idiot and failed to communicate effectively between me and underwriting - but he told me they didn't want to write the policy "because the plumbing is old" (house is 30 years old), he said thats all they said and didn't say what to fix - I had to grill him before he said "Insurance co's don't like plumbing over 50 years old", I said my house is only 30, he came back with maybe it's this flex pipe in the inspection report ... it was a HUGE fiasco. In the end it was NOT the flex drain, but somehow those idiots thought my plumbing was over 50 years old in a 30 year old house? I DID replace the flex because I don't want it there, but the moral of the story is that insurance companies nitpick some really stupid stuff sometimes that have no bearing on what could cause any real damage. Case in point - the entire reason I had to get new insurance - is that my current insurance required me to REPLACE a 10 year old roof that's in perfect condition ... over a screen porch in a concrete block house. As for their 50 year thing - are we supposed to jackhammer up the concrete foundation to replace all the pipes every 50 years "just because"? Insurance companies and their employees are generally criminally stupid.

[@jeffostroff]

Perry your oinfo is good except for the hwole first paragraph. It is NEVER s VERY readily apparent where the leak isto most homeowners clueless on home maintenance. The flood stays inside the vanity rotting out th ebottom of the vanity, then after that they start noticing the rot on the floor and the bottom of the vanity, then it spreads up the drywall, then soaks to the interior of the drywall, then you have moist humidity inside the wall space, then you have mold growing inside your walls for weeks until you begin to smell it. By then it's 10,000 to $30000. I have fixed numerous friend's bathrooms over the last 5 years, and even kitchen sink vanitis where it rots out of the bottom.

[@traviskee990]

Speaking of Arrogance.... I do both Home Inspections and Handyman work. Electrician by trade, but can do just about everything in the construction industry by gaining experience. I'm home inspectors are not "code " inspectors, however I call the flex pipe out Everytime, and Everytime I get flack, normally from "flippers". Last week, I was asked to replace a saddle fitting. I told customer I would replace with a different type valve. "SHARK BITE", because I explained the issues with saddle valve, just like you did in this Video. (Today is first time seeing this) I guess I do need to practice my people skills, because I don't want to be perceived as an arrogant "professional" as yourself. Man, you should never feel you are above anybody. We are all in this grind together. Best of luck.

[@jeffostroff]

Thanks for the insight Travis

[@papabits5721]

I have saddle valves running 20 years now without failure

[@jeffostroff]

Keep your fingers crossed, it's always when you make the claim, that the claim comes to bite you in the butt!

[@garyK.45ACP]

The "codes" referred to are industry standards compiled by experienced professionals in each industry. When they say a device should not be used, it is because that device has an increased risk of causing a problem which outweighs the benefit of the risk. It is not based on the fact YOU have a valve that hasn't leaked for 20 years. YOU are not a "statistically significant sample". Sort of like saying "Smoking is not an increased risk of lung cancer because I have smoked for 40 years and I don't have lung cancer" or "Seat belts don't save lives because I never wear a seat belt and I have never been killed in a car accident" I do not assume you can grasp the concept of risk/benefit and "increased risk" so, to be clear... It does NOT mean "all these valves will leak". It does NOT mean "Most of these valves will leak" it MEANS "these valves will leak more often than the recommended alternative and the cost benefit, which is very small, does not make up for the increased risk." So, now, I think you may understand why your comment is irrelevant.

[@jimmorgan465]

I am a fixer of all, I fixed a new chinese 3/4 pipe New with a hole in it , with a piece of hose and a hose clamp , going on 30 years ago . No plex in my house , only galvanised and copper flares . 3/8 copper Fast hot water no waste , Valves have a 1/4 inch restriction in them , No lost pressure each pipe from source to fauset . 3/8 copper can freeze and not break .

[@TheEvie202]

Listen to Jeff about those saddle valves . There great until they fail and have to replace your drywall! Check the water line at least once a week.

[@bcarroll6274]

gary K I don’t think you had to write a book.

[@johngibson3594]

That’s why you need a properly vented system so that you have air movement. Then the s trap or p trap has no issue. Floor drains are a much more likely to allow gas as they set dry unless you pour water down them constantly. So many places I have been where gurgling occurs.

[@jeffostroff]

John your S-Trap may still self siphon, as the problem is mostly do the inertia of the water, a real long leg leaving the S-Trap, after a short leg entering the S-Trap.

[@sushyanlin]

Form n fit trap is used by my plumber a few days ago on a new sink. He is a licensed plumber from Thumbtack. Thanks for this video. I asked him to come back and fixed it and he did. Now it is all good.

[@jeffostroff]

Bad move, he should have known that is banned by plumbing codes in all 50 states

[@jonofham6658]

In the UK here. I've never seen those concertina traps used over here, though I'm sure you can get them. We commonly use them on our toilet wastes without issue. When used horizontally the valleys just fill with sediment, and eventually just form a smooth surface. Though the ridges are much finer. Though not the "professional" way, I've seen many saddle valves used and serviceable for years without issue. That Husky tool looks truly terrible as an olive (ferule) puller. I use a Rothenberger olive splitter that literally takes like 10 seconds to cut those things off. Or a Monument olive puller similar to the last tool you used. Your plumbing codes do seem to be rather overzealous over there. I can't imagine being told to change a trap, or my insurance policy would be invalid, how ridiculous! US plumbers also seem to be like UK electricians and gas fitters - rather arrogant when referring to handymen and DIYers.

[@jeffostroff]

Yes, some people get lucky, while others get $30,000 repair that the insurance company denies payment on for using items banned by plumbing codes

[@kansaskactusiijlk4986]

Thank you jon ofham, I appreciate hearing your perspective and how things are done elsewhere. I liked your word choices of arrogant and over zealous.

[@jcam7937]

Super helpful and informative! I’m just a homeowner, and don’t consider myself a diy-er. It is really great to understand what should not be used. Thanks!

[@jeffostroff]

Glad to help out and thank you for watching you Jen

[@raywood8187]

My icemaker has one of those saddle type connectors, no problems that I can see but what should I use to replace it? And apparently I have no common sense since I put it on 3 years ago.

[@nobster146]

Man, this kind of stuff is informative but your perspective is a bit enraging. I've hired multiple plumbers in my life who show up to point out the code violations done by the previous plumbers I've hired who then go on to violate another code. Do you guys just go around screwing things up and blaming it on DIYers? Not two weeks ago I had a bonified plumber come in and glue a PVC waste pipe to an ABS waste pipe only to find out later that gluing those together was against code. I had to fix it myself, correctly. You need to be honest that the people who have the most to gain by cutting corners are the plumbers charging full price for bad work. A DIYer wants it done well and the good ones research how to do it properly using videos like yours.

[@jeffostroff]

What I've seen over the years with plumbers and electricians, is the person showing up to do the work is not the owner of the company, the one with the master plumbing or electrician license, the one with 30 years experience, who has been shot down by every city inspector possible during their career, and knows what mistakes to avoid, who really cares about and understands the plumbing codes. Chances are the low man on the totem pole who shows up to do your work does not know much about codes, and has not fully developed their skills yet. 2 years ago I had plumbers come to work on a friend's house, replacing his water main shutoff outside, on a PVC pipe. It leaked the next day and we had to call him back. For a no-brainer cement PVC fitting. Apparently he forgot you have to twist the fitting 1/4 turn while cement is still drying, and hold for a minute before letting go or PVC won't stick. Yup, I know how you feel, this is why I keep making these videos.

[@akan626]

Try to: 1. Hire a contractor that doesn’t have any employees and does it him (her) self. 2. Make note of his or her name on the invoice he or she gives you. 3. Make sure that you get a written warranty for the labor that is at least as long as the manufacturers warranty for the part that he installs. 4. For this one you will need to get to know him: Make sure he comes back to correct any problems in a timely matter and doesn’t charge you extra if it’s his fault. Is he a Man of his word? 5. Don’t be embarrassed about watching him work. A good contractor likes being watched. If he doesn’t like you to watch him, don’t hire him. You may even learn something if you talk to him.

[@WApnj]

That is not an issue since there is a specialty glue to connect PVC to ABS. I think it's green.... Called transition fitting cement..

[@717273mopar]

@@jeffostroff Another thing is plumbing codes vary state to state, my first house was an S-trap home and the problem was the velocity of the water going from the first floor to the basement where the main line was. Used one of these, not sure this is legal but it worked,www.amazon.com/Studor-20341-Mini-Vent-Adapter-Connection/dp/B00FQEX4UI/ref=asc_df_B00FQEX4UI/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=312186755465&hvpos=1o3&hvnetw=g&hvrand=8975938221840903121&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9003648&hvtargid=pla-434083428846&psc=1&tag=&ref=&adgrpid=61740029466&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvadid=312186755465&hvpos=1o3&hvnetw=g&hvrand=8975938221840903121&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9003648&hvtargid=pla-434083428846 If you flush your toilet and you suck the trap dry you have some restriction in your vent. I hate compression fittings, I always solder because I seen to many leaks over the years, also many refrigerators come with those pinch valves,I hate them to.

[@MrOwnerfinance]

I am not a plumber. But I had a plumber tell me you have to use a different glue for the ABS and PVC connection. I remember it was a green color. But who knows, the rules may have changed.

[@chrischapman276]

As a contractor myself (I think my screen name mentions that) I just LOVE "those calls" that start out with the phrase "MY HANDYMAN.....". You and I both know we're going to be fixing some crazy installed things.

[@jeffostroff]

LOL, that is so true!

[@BY-bj6ic]

That was really interesting. I don't know how I got here. Reading and understanding the code is important but your explanation helps us understand why the code forbids certain things. Thanks

[@jeffostroff]

Glad it was helpful! thanks for watching BY.

[@michaelprosperity3420]

Try installing a zero clearance p trap on a sink from Ikea.

[@apprenticelogic6642]

Why would you do that ?

[@michaelprosperity3420]

@@apprenticelogic6642 So a drawer can go under the sink. It is a 90 degree pipe that goes to the wall where you will have to install the trap. Total pain but what does one expect from IKEA.

[@apprenticelogic6642]

Ment install a trap u got in ikea

[@wingerrrrrrrrr]

@@michaelprosperity3420 so the trap needs to be inside the wall?

[@michaelprosperity3420]

@@wingerrrrrrrrr No up against the wall. At least for the sink I purchased. The top drawer of the vanity doesn't allow you to go straight down and install the trap in a traditional location.

[@torgersende]

Regarding the Husky puller, I think you may need to move the arms outward until they sit down into the recesses at either end of the frame. This would have the effect of 1. providing greater separation from the T-handle that you are turning with your thumb and fingers, and 2. create an angle for the teeth to bite into the back side of the nut you are trying to remove... Having said that, it is a pretty cheap looking tool, and either of your two alternatives look like a better design.

[@jeffostroff]

Sort of a moot point now because I do have 2 other tools that do the job just perfectly, allowing you to use the same Ridgid One Stop wrench.

[@yadsidhu5690]

Instead of saddle valve, can you add a T-joint with compression joints? I'm not a handyman...may be a stupid question

[@jeffostroff]

Yes a t fitting with small stubbout pipe and put a compression valve on end

[@Falco45able]

Fella the thing you’re calling a sleeve, is called a olive over this side , to get it off use a adjustable wrench /spanner , open the jaws to the size of the pipe then just put it on the pipe and run it to the nut and tap it off!😉

[@jeffostroff]

I prefer the duck puller tool because I don't ever want to risk banging the pipe and denting it, although if I had to in a pinch, would probably use your trick. Also, what about vice grips, you could lock them down around the sleeve, that way you don't bang on the pipe. you just bang on the vice grips, and they slide the sleeve right off the pipe.

[@Replicant9900]

Each situation is different. You might not have enough room to tap once you get the spanner on the far side of the nut.

[@mskud9996]

Why it isn't banned in the stores and from the suppliers, if they continue selling it, people will definitely buy em. Should be stop from the suppliers first. Personal opinion.

[@jeffostroff]

Erick, I have been wondering this for years myself. It's not a crime to own them, it is only against plumbing code to use them. It's up to city inspectors to stop you from using them by failing your inspection. Maybe the companies jsut reason that people will use it for very short immediate repair, and not make it permenant. Although, a saddle valve is permanent, there is no undo without cutting the pipe where the pin hole is and repairing it with a coupling.

[@glazierEd]

I C I’m a handyman that does research first. Don’t be angry at all handymen. I supply plumbers and electricians many hours of work, when I feel it’s past my ability.

[@bryanromero1]

It's not banned in stores because people keep buying it and using it. Check out your local parts store that most likely sells window tint that is under the legal VLT limit. Sure, these examples aren't supposed to be used in the manner they end up being used (improperly). But, who's to say that's the only way they are used? Maybe that person wants a drain for some hydroponic system? Maybe the window tint that is too dark is used on some home window and not a car? Laissez faire! You wouldn't want the gov't to tell you how to spend your money would ya...?

[@maliktanzilkaleemel4995]

Whos doing what in the equation? Who's getting paid and who's doing the paying? The box store (corporation) + the City (corporation)+ Plumber (corporation) + you (the consumer).

[@lmckrosen123]

A hardware store employee in the hood where I used to live told me it was common for his customers to spend $6 for a roll of duct tape to repair a cracked $3 P-trap!

[@stephenhair5501]

Question about flushing an electric water heater. If the water heater has never been flushed and is over 12 years old, is there a problem with flushing it now? Or, am I just asking for trouble, considering the age of the unit. Thank you!!

[@jeffostroff]

I can't see any problem with draining the tank. There might be a lot of sediment in the bottom, which it will empty out. You might want to pull out the sacrificial anode if you have access to it, and if you don't see anything left on the rod, you might want to replace it to extend the life of the water heater. Most water heaters are good for 6 to 10 years, but changing the anode helps a lot.

[@stephenhair5501]

jeffostroff Thank you!! I have easy access so that should go much smoother. I appreciate your quick and helpful reply.

[@Cosmic_Soul]

Great tips and info Jeff; I’m forwarding this link to friends. Almost every second house has a Saddle Valve installed for a humidifier and a fridge, some installed by the builders in new houses here in Canada. Q: This week I got my basement kitchenette countertop and sink renewed. I am going to replace the flex hoses. One of the 1/4 turn compression valve is passing very little water at close position, no leaks though. I am hesitant to replace it because the pipe will need cutting which will shorten it for future repairs. 99.99% of the time the valve remains in open position. If needed, I can shut off the main. Your advice is appreciated.

[@jeffostroff]

If you have to cut the pipe cut the pipe you can always solder on new sections of copper pipe to make up for it but in my opinion getting rid of the saddle valve and putting in a real valve makes the most sense.

[@Cosmic_Soul]

@@jeffostroff I agree 100%. Some friends didn’t like the advice by saying no one uses Copper anymore, we have plastic pipes: Compared to copper, I hope these plastic pipes would last for 100-200 years otherwise it’s going to be a big problem. I have 3 failure examples. 1) Kitec pipes 2) Newly invented made in USA glue/sand mixture to hold the reclaimed land of Palm islands in Dubai, a failure. 3) A very special epoxy glue made in Germany with LIFETIME WARRANTY. In 1974 we used it in making Onyx marble gift items with 24K Gold plated fittings for export. Luckily, I still kept some items with me. After 30 years, some of them simply separated from the glue. That export company does not exist anymore 😊

[@rickyparr8001]

Thank You,i really,really appreciate being educated,i love to be educated,learning is forever.Thank you, again and again.

[@jeffostroff]

You are welcome Ricky!

[@santiagorojas9128]

Hey boss I have a question, which video you show how to use proper pipes I ran to that problem thanks.

[@jeffostroff]

Santiago, are you referring to this other video I uploaded? kzbin.info/www/bejne/jXyuo4h_g7aglbc

[@missige]

Who knew?! Thank you for this great informative vid!

[@MrLeo7627]

I got a free slop ( utility ) sink & installed it on the outside of my house next to the garage I used one of those accordion P- trap for the very reason that they are weak & can tear away if I accidentally hit the sink . Love my slop sink , from cleaning paint brushes to scaling fish . 10yrs no problems 5 years ago i got a free used cloths washer it set next to & drains into my slop sink, no problems . washes my painter tarps & floor mats. I hear Jerry ( makeyoulook ) washes his brass cases in a cloths washer . Is that to city code ? Lol

[@jeffostroff]

That's a good use outside the building

[@badkitty2011]

@@jeffostroff I think he is missing the point.

[@jackspringer9283]

So we're adding a dishwasher to an older home,all pvc drains and pex supply lines from manifold in basement..I can see and follow all lines easily ..dishwasher is not next (or convenient) to the sink so how should I connect to a vented drain on the basement side? I understand the need for p trap to prevent sewer vapors...any solutions/tips would be appreciated!!

[@jeffostroff]

The dishwasher does not necessarily have to be right next to the kitchen sink there is a distance maximum that they allow by the manufacturer otherwise they think that maybe it can't pump the water that far. You need to find out what that is first it's probably somewhere in the installation instructions or in the owners manual. Once you have that determined to see if you can have the dishwasher placed that close to the kitchen drain and then either connect it to the garbage disposal if you have one, or get it one of those kitchen drain downspouts that has the side stem for the dishwasher drain hose connection. This way now when the dishwasher several feet away starts to discharge it will go in connect to the kitchen sink drain and then down the P trap there.

[@johnkrim8377]

Water gets sucked out by siphonage not capillary attraction. ( not action ) . When a compression fitting is used for whatever reason , the ferrule is squeezed tight that it deforms the pipe enough so it can't come off. It's not supposed to.

[@apex007]

The reason they can sell the corrugated p trap and saddle valves is because they don't explicitly state what it should be used for. They sell screwdrivers, but nothing on a screwdriver states it cannot be used as a pipe.

[@mrshiney2]

Saturday morning, kids and wife asleep....and me??, I am watching plumbing videos for no reason what so ever. Cheers

[@jeffostroff]

Rise and shine!