#4 - Sugar Ray Leonard, Rocky Marciano Beats Modern Heavyweights?

[@osvaldourena988]

Please never stop making these! Everything you both talk about its amazing and thanks for the knowledge!

[@UBboxing]

I agree with you bro this is amazing

[@poppiethestable1090]

Knowledge??? Opinions

[@um52]

With his work ethic, I feel if rocky had nutritionists to bulk up and had access to the equipment elite athletes use today..he’d defeat the current heavy weights. His stamina, chin and power is just insane.

[@charlesciminera5881]

Rocky fought in 1950's if you put him in today's generation he would be much bigger than he was back then because generations get bigger he would be taller and heavier

[@DHEMGHJS]

When was his stamina and chin tested against a modern sized ,class heavyweight? We judge fighters by what they actually were, not some mythical hybrid.Adding more weight to Marciano's small frame would make him slower and appreciably affect his stamina,imo. He fought at 185.188 for a reason,it was where he was most effective. suppositions about modern diet etc is just wishful thinking imo.

[@DHEMGHJS]

@@charlesciminera5881 Then he wouldnt be Marciano would he! lol

[@johncerminaro4549]

@@charlesciminera5881 Was just wondering if we're related? My uncle Charlie KO'd Barney Ross during sparring (before the Canzoneri bout). Our family, from Taylor st. in Chicago, sometimes used nom de guerres: Ciminera, Cerminn, Cermak, Ciminero, etc. & Cervinara (like our hometown in So. Italy before the early 1900's; across the mountain range of the Marchegiano family). My grandfather was Giuseppi Cerminaro. Best regards, either way... Addio, paisan, JC

[@charlesciminera5881]

@@johncerminaro4549 I'll have my nephew look into it John he is into gemology thanks for asking and best regards to you as well I get back to you

[@andreadevaleri5990]

Rocco Marchegiano was the number one. The king! Rest in peace...

[@Grizzlied2525]

Rocky ducked Marty Marshall, Johnson, Maxim, Pompey, Bivins, Satterfield, Valdez, Lloyd Marshall, Oakland Billy Smith, Clarence Henry, Curtis "Hatchetman" Sheppard, Jackson, Bucceroni and Baker just to name a few. *It's no secret that Rocky's manager Al Weill worked for mafia boss Frankie Carbo. Rocky was very carefully managed, tomato can after tomato can. Fast forward to the end of his extremely short career and all that was left were has-beens. WWII Korea back to back. Don't fight any that could beat us then leave before the young exposes us.* He knew he'd eventually have to confront Cleveland Williams, Johansson, Patterson, Liston, Machen, Folley, Valdez, Cooper, Miteff, London, Mildenberger, Jones, Terrell, Chuvalo, Clay, Bonavena, Quarry, Martin and Ellis just to name a few. *We all could have found out how little Rocky would have done against all these guys had he not "UP-N-QUIT" during his prime after a measley (7) years while everyone else was fighting (15) to (25) years. For Pete's sake he was only 31 his last fight and to make matters even worse than quitting at only 31 years of age,, his last fight had to be against a 41 year old named Archie Moore born "1913" wikipedia!* There's no way to sugarcoat it,, Rocky's 175 lb Heavyweight division was the smallest and weakest Heavyweight division in boxing history!

[@mikemilliken3596]

@@Grizzlied2525 your a liar. He never ducked anyone and he would of ko,d all those guys you mentioned,49-0-0 .

[@mikemilliken3596]

@@Grizzlied2525 you don't know shit. You named some of the black murderers row fighters, ezzard Charles beat all of them and Marciano beat ezzard Charles twice and kod him .Charles was 33 and Marciano was 31 so you can't say Charles was old. Walcott was at his best at 38 when Marciano kod him with one punch. Marciano was the only one to ever KO the great jersey Joe Walcott. Those guys back then had every punch and they could really fight and they were tough as hell.their will never be another marchegiano, never 49-0-0. Eat that.

[@mikemilliken3596]

@@Grizzlied2525 your so mad and jealous, again. Not one of those guys you named could handle rocky. The more I watch the heavyweights of the 70,s the more they look overrated. Marciano beat up Ali and dropped him with a body punch and Ali couldn't move when they sparred for the computer fight, ask Lou duva ,he was there, Ali should,nt of pissed Marciano off, rocky was 45 at the time .right before he died in the plane crash. Some of you guys think because bonevana and chuvalo look a little like Rocky that they could fight like him. Bonevana was good but he was nothing like Rocky.

[@mikemilliken3596]

@@andreadevaleri5990 their will never be another marchegiano, never.👍the greatest.

[@pepsiccolausa8857]

Older fighters like Marciano,Louis,Ali had a lot more class. They had the right attitude.True champions you have to love. unlike a lot of the circus shows that go on today. That’s the real difference.

[@DHEMGHJS]

Marciano was court martialled for mugging a civilian when he was a stationed in the UK during the war put in the stockade while his unit went to France..After he retired Marciano loan sharked.He had class as a champion though he was often a dirty fighter.his class pre champion and after is debateable.

[@francollins4036]

Rocky's short arms created an automatic set up whereby when he weaved under the longe r reach of his opponents he automatically could launch his power punches from his feet. If he had long arms he would have to step back again or become tangled/held by his opponent. His short reach became an asset.

[@carminetocco9334]

Ya, I remember my father sayings Rocky would come up from the floor with his punches now I know what he meant by that.

[@albanyorganics3030]

The lack of reach also meant that Marciano could never win any contest on points. Every fight was KO or lose. That's one reason his fighting style is so intense. He also had to solve every fighter's style, going inside with body punches, and taking hits on the way in, continually losing points while probing for the opening leading to the KO. Given these limitations, getting blinded by red pepper for three rounds in the Walcott fight was a serious obstacle to overcome, as was the split nose by Charles that would have stopped the fight in the next round. But against all odds the Rock rose to the occasion every time.

[@carminetocco9334]

Yes, it's all clear. Rocco was the best thanks for the reply

[@DHEMGHJS]

Riddick Bowe was an excellent inside fighter as was Liston, Lewis was pretty decent too.Bowe's reach is 81 in Liston's 84in, Lewis' 84 in.Marciano was blinded by his own corner when they allowed cut solvent for a gash on his hairline to get in his eyes.

[@albanyorganics3030]

@@DHEMGHJS The lack of reach meant fighting at range was never an option. What boxer would willingly make a career out of doing that? Mayweather jr has perfected the art of not getting touched. Marciano fighting inside meant taking and trading hits, not jab/cross or counter then grab and hold, but delivering harder blows, and more blows, than blows taken. That is a high risk strategy for fighter, manager and trainer. Walcott dismissed Rocky's chances before the 1st fight, noting how easy it was to hit him, and came out swinging for the fences. But after the kd Joe started taking hits. Even though he scored more points in every round, Joe slows down after Marciano's vision clears because of those hits. And Rocky never lets up for a moment. Fighting out of a crouch meant taking hits on the thickest part of the skull, on the front, where he was cut on the hairline.

[@albanyorganics3030]

Rocky Marciano never took a backwards step.

[@francollins4036]

I agree.

[@DHEMGHJS]

Neither did Frazier until he met a big modern sized banger .How did he do then?Being limited, because of your stature, to only fighting one way is not a plus ,it's a minus.Taking punishment at range because you are so short of both height and reach means that you must get inside to be in any way effective,thats fine when your opponent is around 40years old and only a few pounds heavier,but not so great when he is 25/27 , 60lbs heavier and hits like a truck!

[@francollins4036]

@@DHEMGHJS Frazier did not have the style anywhere like Rockies. Marciano never took the big risk as Joe did. Range is dependent upon your boxing skill,.

[@DHEMGHJS]

@@francollins4036 Range is dependent on 2 things, reach ,and timing.

[@francollins4036]

@@DHEMGHJS I know. But Joe always charged towards his opponents - Rocky had a wide foot stance with his lead arm well forward, he never charged in, he calculated his forward movement which is why he flattened his opponents and Joe beat them down with hooks - joe only used hooks. Rocky set up his Susie Q. George Foreman would not knock Rocky down as he did Joe - NOT saying George would not stop Rocky but Rocky would get to Georges chin where as Jose could not.

[@outdoorrn2980]

Ray Leonard had heart, that is what carried him when he needed it........

[@GreenDistantStar]

Marciano would be a cruiserweight today, maybe light-heavy, and walks through them all.

[@daryllebeau4333]

LMAO!!!

[@mrjw6701]

Rocky was a natural 200lbs he chose to fight at 187lbs. He could easily fight at 210-215 lbs.

[@EbonyBunny1]

Light heavyweights were heavier than Maciano, even in his day. He only fought as a heavyweight because of his punching power, not because of his size.

[@surrealistidealist]

He'd be taller and heavier enough to remain a heavyweight today.

[@silk3778]

Not against James Tony .. And definitely not against Roy Jones Jr... Marciano wouldn't Make it as a professional boxer .. Especially in the heavyweights.... he'll been a street brawler Maybe...

[@itsgleneaton4883]

I’ll have to disagree about Rocky not beating Wilder. Rocky made his shortcomings his assets. Dipping low made him a hard target to hit and difficult to grab his head.

[@outlaw49x10]

Haha. Who said wilder would beat Marciano? My gosh that guy Wilder is a terrible boxer

[@alessandrofarinelli9285]

@@outlaw49x10 Wilder lose by Clemente Russo LOL . Marciano kill Wilder

[@DHEMGHJS]

@@outlaw49x10 And Rocky was a larger Willie Pep? lol

[@outlaw49x10]

@@DHEMGHJS Rocky was Rocky

[@DHEMGHJS]

@@outlaw49x10 Wow! Thanks for the valuable insight!

[@jimmyd4897]

Nobody could last 15 rounds with Marciano and win. See Ezzard Charles fight.

[@albanyorganics3030]

Exactly right!

[@carminetocco9334]

And Charles was one hell of a fighter just he was built like a great boxer that he was. But the Rock was a punching machine,flat footed and short arm's no great style but if he caught you with the right punch it was over.

[@DHEMGHJS]

None of the older ex lhv's and cruisers he fought anyway.What makes you sure he could go 15 rds with a Lennox Lewis ?He was cut and bleeding in all his major fights and dropped by two elderly men.Why do you think he could absorb shots from super heavies in their prime?When did he ever prove he could?Charles had nearly100 fights on his clock when he fought Rocky ,was past his prime and better at 175lbs.Who is to say a younger fresher Charles might not have beaten Rocky?

[@DHEMGHJS]

@@carminetocco9334 Marciano was an attrition puncher ,he wore you down with incessant aggression and a steady bombardment and all his major wins were over men past their prime.Great fighter ,fortunate to be around when the old guard of the previous decade was on the way out.

[@richardbranton7396]

@@DHEMGHJS Charles was most certainly in the early stages of Lou Gehrigs disease when he fought Marciano

[@johnluongo4230]

Reading a lot of these comments and they never cease to amaze. No one says that Dempsey beat an old man when he beat Willard who was 37, just that he beat a “giant.” No one says Joe Louis beat up an old light heavyweight when he beat Braddock. No one says Floyd Patterson beat an old man when he beat Archie Moore a year after Marciano. (“Old Man Moore by the way, had 43 fights after the Marciano fight, more than most fighters today). No one says Cassius Clay beat an old man when he beat Archie Moore 7 years after Marciano fought him. And no one says that Muhammad Ali beat an old man when he beat Sonny Liston, just that he beat then “baddest man on the planet” who could have been 40 or older. Marciano is the only heavyweight in history to fight the number one contender in every title defense. Moore by the way was the number 2 contender but earned the shot by beating the number one contender Nino Valdez who was 6’3” and around 210. I’d like to be old like Archie Moore. I remember when Joey Giardello beat Ray Robinson, I was a kid, and I said “well Robinson is old anyway.” The old timers all said to me, “we don’t care how old Robinson is, you beat him you did something, he’s that great.” I feel the same way about Louis, Walcott, Charles and Moore. You beat them you did something, they were that great. Watch the films. All fought like champions. If they are knocked or simply discarded in an effort to knock Marciano, something many people just love to do, we diminish the careers of truly great fighters. Not one of them knocked Marciano, just had praise and Rocky respected them also. Question - if it was easy to be 49 and 0 as a heavyweight how come none of these other fighters were able to do it? Let’s pick 1900-2020, 120 years. In a hundred and twenty years no other heavyweight, many truly great fighters among them, has been able to do it. Holmes came closest, and Holmes was a true pro, but no one could match that record. The Rock is the Rock, probably the best conditioned athlete of the 20th century, no one disagrees that no one worked harder. And if it was just about punching power Shavers would have been heavyweight champ forever. We all know he didn’t make it. Time to give credit where credit is due. Marciano was probably the toughest most determined fighter to ever lace them up. Were there better boxers? We’re there bigger men? Yes, just about all of them. All he did was win. There is an intangible here that can’t be measured in height or weight. We should all have a heart the size of Marciano’s.

[@DHEMGHJS]

1.Braddock had turned 32 that month he had been fighting heavyweights for 8 years and at197 he was the same weight as Louis plus he was an inch taller. Everyone knows Dempsey beat an old Willard its mentioned everytime the fight comes up! Patterson did beat an old Moore, and so did Marciano a year earlier. Valdes was the number one contender at the end of 53 and 54, how come he never got a title shot? How difficult it is to be 49-0 would depend on how good your opposition was would it not? The difference is that when Holmes failed to beat Spinks he was 35 to Spinks' 29,whereas Marciano was 32 to Moore's 40!lol As Holmes said after the Spinks fight." Rocky was a young man fighting old men,I'm an old man fighting young ones! If Holmes had padded his record with the light heavies and cruisers Marciano was fed he would likely have been 60-0! Sometimes the truth is just too unpalatable for some people. Rocky was a great fighter,great champ, and a fine man,BUT he was lucky to be around when he was, the three best fighters of his division were 33,37 and 38 and the other quality challenger was 40 years old Stating the truth is not tearing down him or his legacy,its just facing facts.Something that is extremely difficult for"Rockista's," to do!

[@johnluongo4230]

@@DHEMGHJS You must have a lot of time on your hands. I’ll just say that I respectfully disagree with your one sided, obviously biased assessment, of everything related to Marciano. Your faulty logic can be applied to every fighter that ever laced up the gloves, something you obviously never did, but you are however, entitled to your opinion. That aside, where you really lost me was your comment on Jersey Joe. It’s a glaring indication that your ability to objectively assess boxing talent is flawed. So be it and there will be no further comment from me except for the following. If 49 and 0 is that unpalatable to you let’s not refer to the numbers any longer. I’m sorry if you are offended by it as these numbers seem to be a real bone of contention. We can simply replace them with undefeated.

[@DHEMGHJS]

@@johnluongo4230 Once again you make incorrect assumptions first I dont know anything about post war heavies.[Ive forgotten more about them than you have yet to learn including speaking to Cockell,]What is wrong with my assessment of Walcott? I said he was inconsistent .True or False?During his own time Walcott was regarded as a stop gap champion,in the late 50's Boxing Illustrated ran a poll of the heavyweight champions up to that time Walcott and Charles came out in the middle with the comment not the best not the worst.I have the 50's Ring magazines,been collecting them and others for over 50 years, you should read their writers contemporary perception of Jersey Joe. Joe Louis who fought both Walcott and Charles when he himself was past his best did not rate Walcott highly and said so, he also stated that in his prime he would have stopped Charles inside 7 rounds. Charles was never rated highly as a heavyweight in his own life time.Back to Walcott, Joe was ko'd by moderate Abe Simon in1940,outboxed by journeyman Johnny Allen 21 - 19-0 in45,lost to powder puff puncher light heavy Maxim in46,[ a fight he may have deserved to win ]and lost to Elmer Ray whose fearsome rep is built up on obscure nobodies N.B. Ray was kod in sparring by welterweight Charley Burley.Walcott squeeked a majority dec past Ray in the rematch.Walcott was well beaten by 22 years old Rex Layne who was fighting with a badly cut eye handicap. Walcott needed5 attempts to win the title and finished with a 49-20-1record. That is not the record of a great fighter imo. Walcott and Charles standing has been rehabilitated in large part by Marciano fans ,by doing so they inflate the importance of his wins over them,just as they insist Louis was still the Brown Bomber when Rocky wore him down.They point to Rocky's win over him as proof that Marciano could beat the bigger class guys this became so wearingly predictable they even included a sketch on it in an Eddie Murphy film! Time on my hands?Yes all I want, I've been retired for16 years and am comfortably fixed so that I can indulge myself with my interests. Now don't run away again ! Consider my points and,if you think I'm biased, illustrate where I am biased ,if my logic is flawed demonstrate where it is! I have the courage of my convictions ,now have yours! Maybe your standards are lower than mine? If you have the nerve to respond to this, please do not offer the excuse Walcott was half starved in the fights he lost,instead check out what he weighed in them! Now I've laid out my stall and given my reasons why Walcott is not a great fighter as I understand the term. Let's hear your reasons why you think he is?

[@John-pc2yr]

Great post

[@John-pc2yr]

​@@DHEMGHJSof course you bring up Archie Moore being old against rocky, but u won't say nothing about Ali being in early 20s fighting Moore almost a decade after rocky beat him .that's 🐒👈 logic, or lack there of.

[@jackflashproductions6898]

For the record: Lewis was older, BUT still the heavy favorite to win; just as Marciano vs Charles and Wolcott. Marciano didn't turn pro, until he was 25.

[@mrjw6701]

Marciano had his first pro fight at 23 and then returned to the amateur ranks for a year. He went back to pro at 24.

[@davidleach4689]

Rockys stamina was unmatched and he could take a beating used his legs to add insane power for uppercuts and body shots.

[@johncerminaro4549]

Thank you for posting this---a reality check: Marciano 49-0 w/43 KOs

[@DHEMGHJS]

Reality check 39 of those were under 200lbs,5 under180lbs.The average age of his opponents in his five major fights is 36 years old! 13 of his opponents had losing records!

[@johncerminaro4549]

@@DHEMGHJS You evidently don't know much about the quality opponents of the post-WWII era or you wouldn't refer to them by weight & age. Mike Tyson is far more generous than you when discussing the great champion. Shove your statistical outlook, young man.

[@DHEMGHJS]

@@johncerminaro4549 I'd say I know more than you do .Joe Louis was champ when I was born! Want to compare your all time top ten to mine, or are you just going to assume you know ?Tell me about the quality of the era? An era in which DonCockell could be number 2 ! I've only about150 books and 50 films on it and I've been collecting,and studying boxing films since the middle 60's! I refer to the fact that Marciano's best opponents had an average age of 36,that his best 4 wins were over men past prime, two of whom retired immediately after! lol Come on Professor, lets discuss Earl Walls, Clarence Henry,Bob Baker,Karel Sys,HeinTen Hoff,Bob Dunlap,Bill Gilliam,Bob Satterfield,Lee Oma,Omelio Agramonte,Jimmy Bivins,Rex Layne,Coley Wallace,Harold Johnson,Roland Lastarza,etc! Lets see you educate me! NB The quality of the 50's is reflected in the age of the top ranked men.Pick any heavyweight and I'll school you on him! While you're at it watch what Emmanuel Steward has to say on the subject when rating the best all time heavies ,its on You Tube.Then read up what historians have to say about the quality of the post war heavies.Looking forward to your reply!

[@johncerminaro4549]

@@DHEMGHJS It's about a unique champion's heart--the central point you seem not grasp--and, upon which, am content to disagree w/you until the end of time.

[@DHEMGHJS]

@@johncerminaro4549 So you don't want to test your knowledge of the era against mine?lol Best not assume you know more than me then!

[@silvernblackr35]

Marciano was not a small man like everyone says, short arms and height but he was built like a brick shithouse and he was lean. He was in incredible shape in his fighting days and practically starved himself during training and when you look at him in after retiring you realize how big of a guy he was. His head was bigger than Floyd Patterson's torso.

[@peterbartolomeo5542]

He was 5'10" 187 ...for a light heavyweight he would be undersized he fought as a heavyweight. He hit like a Super heavy weight

[@FakuaBlock]

Marciano would in todays era not be above the new limit for the heavyweight division. Remember there is a division between Cruiser and Heavyweight coming out soon.

[@John-pc2yr]

​@@peterbartolomeo5542he got down to that weight in order to go hard for 15 rounds..he could've fought at 205 if he wanted too

[@johnluongo4230]

@@John-pc2yr Most people don’t know that Marciano ran 7-8 miles a day, every day, throughout his career. He was never out of shape. His weight, while running 7 days/365 at this time was about 205. When a fight came up he upped it to 14 or 15 miles a day plus all the other work such as sparring and bag work and then dropped another 20 lbs. Get yourself into great shape by running 7 miles a day for a year. After that, challenge yourself and try dropping another 20 lbs. it ain’t easy. Marciano was undoubtedly the best conditioned athlete of the 20th century.

[@DHEMGHJS]

Marciano's chest measurement was under 40 inches his biceps under 14 inches.His best weight was 185/188lbs tiny by todays standards.

[@peterbartolomeo9574]

The mob left Marciano alone . He would never throw a fight. It became a religious thing with all Italians. The Mob respected how great Marciano was. He started boxing at 25 when most heavyweights are almost finished. Joe Lewis was 37 Rocky was 29.

[@Ryuksgelus]

Ali did have big shoulders by the time he faced Foreman. I was surprised how big he looked vs Holmes. The Foreman fight is oddly depicted in discussion. He didn't look much smaller than Foreman at all. He also was hurting Foreman as early as the 3rd round with 1-2s, eating tons of body shots long before the rope-a-dope. He out toughed Foreman. He didn't just outsmart or out maneuver him like you always hear.

[@UBboxing]

Sugar ray Robinson is mostly ranked at top 1 for p4p greatest he’s truly a great fighter. I saw a video on rummys corner about it and I sore a scoring system that ranked him at number 1 with 2320 points and the Max points you can get is 2400.

[@SouthPawGuy1977]

Great video! Great to listen to a couple of boxing experts!

[@husain4718]

Keep up the great work man.

[@UBboxing]

Have a good day

[@bigcj6279]

Rocky Marciano is just unbeatable, that’s it 🇮🇹

[@DHEMGHJS]

The fighter hasn't been born who is unbeatable.

[@SCfanIam100]

@@DHEMGHJS Well one wasn't born that proved that against Marciano.

[@DHEMGHJS]

@@SCfanIam100 There are no, Ali's,Liston's,Foreman's,Holmes'.Bowe's, Holyfield's Lewis',Dempsey's,prime Louis,Frazier's,Tyson's,on his record. I think quite a few champs would go undefeated against the men Marciano fought.37 of whom were under 200lbs,21 under 190lbs,and 6 under 180lbs.Did he really beat Lowry first time around?Did he beat Lastarza in their 1 st fight?Or did he just get favourable decisions?

[@carminetocco9334]

You bet he was.and sill would be if he was alive in his prime.

[@bigcj6279]

In his prime the weights were those. He fought monsters who weighted 15-20 kg more dumb ass

[@lendrury2771]

Excellent video First time seeing this

[@pepsiccolausa8857]

They asked Ali in a interview if he went back all the way to the days of John L Sullivan. Which champion would give you the most trouble. He said rocky Marciano because he has no style

[@chucknchar]

I can see the funny scene of Rocky standing over a laid out Fury.

[@GabelhelmSogarbraten]

I love Roy foreman, he always says what he thinks and makes extremely good points, also his brother is my biggest boxing hero

[@listrahtes]

That may sound delusional but I dont see any way Wilder would win vs Rocky. The most important aspect is footwork. Marciano had great timing and reach for his left hook and to get inside. Wilder would be brutalized up close and countered all day. Watch how he tries to backpedal vs Fury. Wouldnt work at all. Wilder is not a great champ. AJ I would also bet on Marciano. Marciano would have wreaked havoc even in the 70s and I would definitely favour him vs Mike Tyson.

[@greek1237]

I would not be shock if the Rock beat Wilder. Marciano was not some dumb brawler, but he think his way to cut the ring off, he was always weaving and leaning(Vs Frazier's or Dempsey's bobbing and Weaving) and timing his counters or dodging his foes's punching's.

[@Ididntaskforahandleyoutube]

I do not like Wilder and I have the highest respect for Marciano but Wilder would utterly destroy and possibly kill Rocky. Wilder would win 10/10 times. It would be like George Foreman fighting Jack Dempsey. It would be a bloodbath. Cheers.

[@12000gp]

I don’t see Wilder beating many great heavyweights in history, too lacking in the fundamentals for me. Obviously that right hand gives him a chance in any fight but I don’t see him winning more times than losing.

[@discernment8963]

Frankly, yours is 1 of the most sensible observations I've seen in a while. It seems the vast majority of commenters haven't done or been around any real boxing themselves, but are coming from a "Bang Bang"fanboy type place of emotion rather than that of even a fan of boxing &or skilled fighting in general. In other words, "the big inked up knarley" dude with a monster punch (& next to nothing else) just goes through everybody like a red hot knife through butter. How many of those coming in 1 form or another do we not remember anymore? Boxing, (heavyweight in particular)is so watered down these days with the existence of the NFL, NBA especially, but all big money athletic opportunities it allows for a "Wilder" type to progress as far as he has. In earlier times Wilder would've gotten weeded out much, much, much earlier by some cagey Journeyman who wasn't intimidated by anybody, but just wasn't quite genetically gifted enough to crack the top 5 during times when everybody could at least box. Those reading this who know the sport will understand precisely what I'm getting at.

[@albanyorganics3030]

Only Holyfield matches up with Marciano as a warrior.

[@Nagy50Magyar]

Roy Foreman: Marciano would be a slightly different fighter today than he was in the 1950s, unless he was just transported into the future. I suggest Marciano's genetic package be born in the modern era, which would make him a different fighter, just as a modern fighter is fairly matched in a previous era by having him born there. Thus fairly matched, Marciano would be 1. an inch or two taller, and 20 pounds heavier, due to the growth hormones, growth inducing antibiotics, and steroids in modern meat. 2. fighting 12 rounds, instead of 15, Marciano could train to go 15, or 16. Matched fairly against a modern fighter, he would be bigger, stronger, yet just as well conditioned to go full bore the entire fight. He would thus be a far greater headache for modern fighters than most think. You and George are the few today who realize Marciano would be no pushover for anyone at any time. Add my suggestion to the mix, and you have a very formidable match for anyone at any time.

[@2serveand2protect]

Interesting.

[@samueljbeckett]

Yes! I've been saying this as well! People back then were just smaller on average. There's a reason heavyweights have gotten bigger over time. Modern training methods play a role too. Back then they didn't lift weights because they thought it would stiffen them up. And they had much less info about nutrition as well. Marciano would be bigger, faster, stronger and potentially have even more endurance fighting in the modern era because they would know how to eat to fuel the body even better. Using a modern example, there's Evander Holyfield who started his career as a light heavy, went on to become undisputed cruiserweight champion, then went on to become undisputed heavyweight champion. If he could do it, I don't see why people think Marciano couldn't.

[@crawfordgalbraith73]

@@samueljbeckett Find the interview with legendary trainer Don Turner about Marciano (it's on youtube). He talks about Holyfield coming into camp at 190lbs if memory serves. Then he bulked up with his "vitamins" etc. Turner says that he would have been even better if he had stayed lighter. Sharper, more stamina etc. Don Turner should know. Marciano was supremely fit. He was trained by an old school master trainer in Charlie Goldman who knew the art of conditioning a fighter. Knowledge that has now been lost. Goldman knew the even older school trainers who trained supermen, ironmen like Battling Nelson, Ad Wolgast, Joe Gans who fought insane distances in 4 oz gloves. These trainers were on the circuit and shared this priceless knowledge, sitting up into the wee small hours in fight camps long after their fighters had gone to bed, learning from each other. Professors of the art of boxing and conditioning like Jimmy De Forest, Ray Arcel. Look up who these guys trained and developed. Arcel for example trained both Benny Leonard AND Roberto Duran. That's why Duran was so great. Ray Arcel and Freddie Brown in his corner giving him old school technique and knowledge that was vastly superior to his opponents. Check out Joe Louis trainer Jack Blackburn's history. He was teaching Joe Louis technique he learned from the time of Joe Gans. Louis used to easily crush giant sized heavy weights like Carnera, Buddy Baer and Abe Simon. Greg Peralta, a former light heavyweight title challenger gave George Foreman and Ron Lyle fits when Peralta was close to 40 yrs old. Peralta was no Gene Tunney or Jack Dempsey. Ken Norton was brutally knocked out by Jose Luis Garcia who weighed 188lbs. Check it out. Sonny Liston was taken the distance twice by Bert Whitehurst who weighed 185/190 lbs. Henry Cooper nearly KO'd Ali and was doing great in2nd fight only his cuts stopped him. Check out Cooper's weight in both fights. In the 2nd he said he had weights down his shorts because he only weighed 180lbs on the day of the fight. Styles make fights. Lots of great smaller fighters from yesteryear would have had a picnic today.

[@samueljbeckett]

@@crawfordgalbraith73 I completely agree! I think people really underestimate a lot of the smaller fighters. I basically think if these guys wanted to bulk up, they could have. But in many cases I think coming in lighter can be more advantageous too. Smaller guys routinely beat bigger guys in the past, so it all depends on styles and skills like you said.

[@Boxeo250]

That’s what I’ve been saying, Marciano would plough all the top heavys today with this.

[@Joe-gu6oe]

Friendly for once. Thanks to David and Roy.

[@jeffreyloskoskill4901]

The thumbnail got me. Is that guy drinking a tea pitcher full of coffee?

[@jasongenareo]

I think that when Marciano gets compared to modern fighters, the comparison needs to be fully fleshed out. If MarcIano fought today he would have access to modern nutrition and supplementation that would put him in the ring between 200-210 lbs. He would maintain, if not grow his punching power based on the added muscle. Due to the fact that fights are no longer 15 rounds, but 12, he would still train like a maniac so the added muscle would not be a problem by affecting his endurance. The modern giants, most of whom gas out after 4 rounds, would be hard pressed to find any breathing room if they didnt get him out quick (which no one did). The added muscle makes it much harder on them to keep him off of them and I think he beats most of them.

[@DHEMGHJS]

It woudlnt make him any taller ,or his reach any longer,extra weight would just slow him down

[@DHEMGHJS]

Would he be any taller? Would his reach be any longer? Would he be any quicker? Would his skin be anymore resistant to cuts?

[@mikemilliken3596]

@@jasongenareo he did.nt need more punching power and he didn't need to be bigger, I don't think the modern training is better except for the steroids they take and I know a lot of them do now, these big guys now get tired fast and don't even throw many punches. Rock never got tired and never stopped punching. These big overrated overweight guys would poop out and be on their backs against Rocco by the fifth or sixth round.

[@StevenCryar]

With modern day training and nutrition I absolutely think Marciano could hold his own in any era. Not saying he would be the best or go undefeated but with his heart and natural power he could hold his own

[@discernment8963]

I don't think there's been an "intangible" type a fighter (particularly heavyweight) since Marciano. You talk about a Genetic Freaks like Ali for example. He had Lightweight speed, endurance, gracefulness etc with heavyweight size and power, incredible! I believe Marciano was just as much of a positive Genetic Freak in his own way, mentality, capacity for getting in the endurance condition of a Lightweight also, yet his power as well as capacity to handle punishment was that of a Giant. Knockout power in both hands with his overhand right always in the argument for the hardest punch there is. In his prime, no matter how ridiculous it might look on paper (intangibles) you'd be wrong to count him against any fighter from any era.

[@2serveand2protect]

Very well put.

[@albanyorganics3030]

Hit as hard as Frank Bruno but 30lbs lighter.

[@discernment8963]

@@albanyorganics3030 Marciano's Susie Q was hard as anything Foreman, Shavers or whoever you wanna name ever threw. It's impossible to say who threw the absolute hardest punch ever thrown, but anybody mentioned or even thought of in the conversation we're having had a punch capable of causing slumber. I want to mention Max Baer hit insanely hard also, it's as unfortunate as well as it is all to common (particularly in past era's) that once a guy had scaled that mountain, many times they're mandatory insatiable hunger was lost. Had Baer been in the best of shape and focused, I think he stood a very good chance of beating Joe Louis. Tony Galento's another one if he'd of been focused, who knows? He put Louis on his ass then ran outta gas. Galento's idea of training camp was leaving the bar a little earlier than usual.

[@albanyorganics3030]

@@discernment8963 The Marciano punch was tested by the military as having armor piercing impact, equivalent to a .44 magnum. He trained to deliver that impact for 15 or 20 or 25 rounds. The only fighter to go 15 rounds against him was Ezzard Charles, the atg light heavyweight, after which at the age of 32 was nothing more than .500 against mediocre opponents until he retired a few years later. Muhammed Ali publically disrespected every fighter except Rocky, who hit him with a flurry in the computer bout (age 46 and 14 years retired) that made him stop the filming and demand more money to continue. Joe Louis would not say he could take a prime Marciano in his own prime. Like Ali he knew firsthand what that would be like. There isn't, and wasn't, and never will be a fighter who could withstand what Rocky delivered over and over again. Baer could hit as hard as anyone but not for long, and never bothered with defense. Max was never the same after killing that guy in the ring.Two-Ton Tony knocked down Joe Louis for sure. He also knocked out a Jackie Gleason in a one punch fight outside the club who didn't know who he was, and wasn't told. Galento was certainly a character but he was never a class act. The Rock was always a gentleman outside the ring and an unstoppable force of will inside it.

[@stevesmith2171]

Archie Moore was past his prime when he fought Marciano. I was told by a friend of mine who’s passed away that Archie told him that he wasn’t hitting Marciano with everything but the kitchen sink, he was hitting him with the kitchen sink and every time he did he got hit back with five refrigerators. Rockys hands must of been made of steel because he would hit someone anywhere he could,places other fighters would avoid to keep from hurting their hands,and just keep throwing more punches at the same spots.

[@claudedalton8970]

LOVED SUGAR! LOVED MARCIANO! ALWAYS WILL!

[@2serveand2protect]

Very well put, but I still think that "thing" Marciano and others of his era had - the thing you call "HUNGER" and I call "WILLPOWER" would make him extremely dangerous to anyone today. PS. Not to mention ...he faced way bigger odds than being (quote): "pushed around by someone bigger" (to be honest! ...they were ALL bigger had more reach and weighed more than Marciano - even Archie Moore!) - and yet he knocked them down one after the other. Walcott practically BEAT HIM UP for thirteen rounds knocking him down with a perfect shot at the thrid round - all it took was one placed shot by Marciano to win the fight and Jersey Joe to sleep for 5-7 minutes on the canvas... There just aren't guys like that anymore - guys like Louis, Robinson or Marciano - for these people it meant life or death (sometimes litterally!) ...today - well! - they fight for show. Who the hell fights each two months anymore?? - 4 - 5 - 6 times each year?? WHO?

[@DHEMGHJS]

No Charles was lighter for their first fight and Moore was the same weight.Mathews was a few pounds lighter too.

[@paulofreitas9965]

ROCKY MARCIANO THE BEST HISTORY !

[@lorddemon8019]

Rocky Marciano would beat Wilder and Fury even in a 1 against 2, he had a lot of stamina, also Marciano chin was made of granite, he hit without holding back anything, you could see the bad intention in all his blows, he knew how to intimidate, and was aware of the fear that his fists caused in the rival, and the height or reach of the rival was never a problem for him, almost all his rivals were taller than him, and we all know how they ended up, in my land we have a proverb that goes like this ... "no matter how big you think you are, there have been higher towers that have fallen ".

[@johns7272]

hahahahahahahahahahaha....oh sorry - you were joking, right?

[@WeCube1898]

Not that he has a granite chin, but he has very difficult to hit

[@moegreen132]

@@johns7272 wilders a joke bro lol

[@beatlejim64]

Marciano was the best conditioned fighter ever. He had to be! He wasn't an entertainer...wearing stupid costumes....he came in to take whatever you had. You weren't going to outslug him...you weren't gonna be in better shape then he was...(no spare tire or "man boobs" on Marciano)...your work rate wasn't going to be higher than his...your heart wasn't going to be as big as his...your stamina isn't gonna be as good as his. He ruined guys...some fighters were never the same! He almost killed Carmine Vingo...(Vingo never fought again!)...had his nose split in half by Ezzard Charles in their second fight in Sept.1954. They couldn't stop the bleeding...doctor and ref were gonna stop the fight! Marciano stormed out...KO'd Charles...and kept the title.! Early in his career he fought Jerry Jackson...6'3 254lbs....Rocky KO's him with one punch in the first round. He was a beast in the ring...and all class outside the ring!

[@rodgerbane3825]

I seriously doubt he beats Fury, who is an excellent boxer and MUCH larger than Marciano. And Fury can take a punch quite well. I think Marciano kills Wilder.

[@husain4718]

WILDER CAN'T DEAL WITH PRESSURE FIGHTERS. FURY STRUGGLES WITH SMALLER FIGHTERS THAT HAVE A GREAT OVERHAND. I THINK AJ IS THE ONLY ONE THAT HAS A SERIOUS CHANCE TO WIN.

[@somethingrandom7026]

Facts, I was thinking the same exact thing but if Marciano catches AJ on the chin he could knock him out.

[@matepavic6929]

AJ has porculane chin, he can't handle Rock.

[@keymaker2112]

Naw, I think Fury has his number. The man has two distinct, "gears" of fighting now that he can call on, his slick pure boxer style, and his bullying style he used against Wilder. Bullying Marciano would be a hell of a lot more dangerous and difficult than Wilder, but Marciano was also a much smaller man with a MUCH shorter reach, so if Fury made the appropriate adjustments, I could see it being very one sided. AJ gets caught in my opinion, his defense isn't going to keep him safe like Fury's.

[@samueljbeckett]

I think Marciano would beat AJ as well. The fight with Ruiz exposed him a bit. And all credit to Andy Ruiz, but Marciano is a whole other type of beast. Can't see Joshua being able to handle that.

[@WeCube1898]

They would have done jab and run

[@jamest681]

When Rocky and Ali had that computerized fight, Rocky was surprised how fast Ali was and Ali was surprised how Rocky was able to corner him.

[@m.e.bentoo2271]

Which fight (I think it was SRL vs THearns??), where SR was beat & found a way to win rt at the end. Awesome fight. But, it was cuz he had fought Duran (1st fight), and was KO'd but on his feet. Got through it, tho he lost. After the fight SR looked 60 yrs old. But found out what it took, takes and that he had it. Methinks that.

[@xMerciless09x]

would love to hear Roy's solutions on corroption in boxing

[@dustinethridge5401]

Closing the distance was his specialty. He'd also dig his head into your chin/shoulders. To block your sight and follow with a shot you couldn't see coming. Once he clipped you, your in trouble.

[@albertogarcia305]

I coulda been a contender. I coulda been somebody.

[@brettgainsford4866]

Great conversation

[@dexocube]

This was great to listen to

[@henrywhenryw812]

Rocky is an inspersion to us all

[@itsgleneaton4883]

Many people have a tendency to judge fighters of different times in a way that indicates modern training compared to old training, equipment and so forth. But there was never a technique or method of training that made champions but it was certain individuals that no school or trainer could have developed.

[@waltereaton4420]

I appreciate the respect conveyed toward Marciano in assessing the Rock's potential against modern boxers.

[@connshawnery6489]

There’s been more than two Sugar Rays in history. There was Sugar Ray Seales, who won a gold medal in the summer Olympics in 1972 (he later fought Marvin Hagler as a pro). I’ve also heard one of or two more who also had pro careers.

[@DHEMGHJS]

Sugar Ray Costner?

[@Denner771]

15 round fight, Marciano would have kicked all their asses. Legendary trainer Don Turner said Marciano could beat both the Klitschko's at the same time. Shorter guys who can get inside would have an advantage over someone 6'7.

[@albanyorganics3030]

Tyson Fury also.

[@DHEMGHJS]

If they have the advantage how come nearly all the heavy champs of the last50 years were over 6 foot?Where are the five feet ten 185lbs heavyweight champs in the last70 years? DonTurner said Andre Ward,and Floyd Mayweather were just average, that cut men are a con. He's full of it.imo

[@DHEMGHJS]

Turner is a legend in his own kitchen .

[@Denner771]

@@DHEMGHJS Because the heavyweights as a whole over the last 20-30 years have been sub par at best with very few exceptions. How tall was Mike Tyson?

[@DHEMGHJS]

@@Denner771 I think the following heavies that were ranked in the last 30 years stack up very favourably against the likes of.Mathews,Cockell,Lastraza,Bucceroni,Dunlap,Holman,Sys,Neuhaus,Slade,Norkus.50's top ten Joshua,Fury,Wlad ,Vitali,Mercer,Morrison,Ruddock,Tucker,Douglas, Ibeabuchi,Tua,Holyfield,Moorer,Rahman,Tyson,Pulev,Povetkin,Ibragimov,Lewis,Bowe,Witherspoon,Tucker,Haye. Tyson was 36lbs heavier than Marciano.

[@jordancooke5980]

The Polish heavyweight.. Andrew Golata?

[@RR1OP]

Good talk all the way around from Leonard to mob backing with sizing

[@nagone11]

Rocky was subject to get beaten badly buy a good technical boxer with good lateral movement.. Walcott showed just what one could do, Walcott was just a bit too old when he fought Rocky. Guys like ALI would have really hurt him very badly.

[@claudedalton8970]

WOULD LOVE TO HEAR A CONVERSATION ABOUT THE GREAT GEORGE FOREMAN AND JACK DEMPSEY ON THIS LEVEL!

[@MrNonoya_Bizness]

Does Roy know mma? i rally want to know how much he follows it so i can feel right or not proposing mma eps

[@2serveand2protect]

(PS.) - and If I may add something - Marciano was quite disliked by the later Boxing "historians" (as they call themselves) < 1 > because of the Joe Louis fight (which has always been kinda odd to me, because Marciano and Louis always remained good friends) - and < 2 > because the world and America in particular LOVES a good "COMEBACK STORY". Marciano however never had to do any "comebacks" - he just paved his way winning all his fights one after the other.

[@DHEMGHJS]

I've never heard this and there is no evidence that it has any credibility.Charles suffered for being the man to succeed Louis as Tunney did for succeeding Dempsey .Marciano,being the first white champ since Braddock was welcomed enthusiastically as it was felt he would bring fans back to boxing.

[@2serveand2protect]

@@DHEMGHJS ? There's "no evidence" for WHAT exactly? ...for Marciano never having to do any "come-backs"?? You need "evidence" for that?

[@DHEMGHJS]

@@2serveand2protect I need evidence that his popularity was affected by him beating a 37years old ex champ who had already lost to Charles.simply put it's BS!

[@2serveand2protect]

@@DHEMGHJS Oooh - you mean you want to know whether is it true MARCIANO's popularity was affected by the Joe Louis fight?? :D Now I get it! Well - some articles say he was not "despised", but I saw a documentary where one of Rocky's friends spells it out crystal clear - (quote): "He was DESPISED FOR IT." I can give You the link if you want.

[@DHEMGHJS]

@@2serveand2protect "One of his friends said," is not evidence or a primary source of any kind.I have the Ring magazines from the 50's no mention of his popularity taking a hit because he beat Joe in them.Marciano was a very popular champ and his complexion helped there.

[@markwint605]

Weird with Marciano I feel he's overrated and underrated at the same time. He was a top seven champion you could rate him the number one or like number eight my opinion. Great fighter.

[@percyvaughan]

Exactly. Underrated with his heart, toughness, work ethic, and stamina. Overrated in being the best ever. His best fights against late 30s and mid 40s. If he fought in the 1960s/1970s or fought a Prime Joe Louis, Liston, Ali, Liston, Holmes, he would lose on cuts.

[@justinfalzon6854]

It's my perspective that people don't appreciate Marciano's greatness because they themselves never been in a fight or took/threw a punch. They can't comprehend the beast Marciano was. Its literally unbelievable. Pulverize is the perfect word for it. Its such a different fight because your instincts and adrenaline are spiking all over the place and your subconscious is like, YOU ALREADY LOST. ABORT. ABORT. AVOID CRITICAL DAMAGE. RUN. WHY ARE YOU STILL HERE. ABORT.

[@willleon9165]

Exactly bang on Marciano was one of them fighters who don't look much watching on tv, only those in there fighting him knew how hard to beat he was

[@ascendediam]

@@willleon9165 wrong outdated get glasses

[@ascendediam]

wrong outdated get glasses

[@alec2726]

Didn't Marciano run 15 miles each day, before training?

[@DHEMGHJS]

Nope!

[@colecampbell1906]

@@DHEMGHJS yes he did, during fight week. When he didn't have a fight coming up he'd still go 5-8 miles a day.

[@D.D.-ud9zt]

He ran 115 miles a day! They were built different back then.

[@pikkon899]

If taller fighters used their size and that's a key thing, if they know how to use their size against a smaller fighter, Rocky is in trouble. Foreman vs. Frazier is the best example of how a taller fighter uses the size advantage against a smaller, aggressive fighter. Foreman literally shoved Frazier out of the way everytime Frazier tried to get inside, forcing Frazier have to reset and start all over again. Because modern day Heavyweights are much taller, you don't see this anymore. Ruiz vs. Joshua was a good example of a taller fighter not using that size advantage against a smaller counter puncher to bully him around the ring. I think most heavyweights today would just try to go for the knock out quickly against the smaller Marciano instead of bullying him around the ring.

[@tonym994]

"kid, it's not your nite. we're goin' for the price on Wilson."

[@mikewhitney8615]

I know SRR is always thought of as the p4p best ever, but my gosh, was Leonard great. If he hadn't had the retina problem he'd have gone even further.

[@davidhirsh317]

Usyk showed Rocky would demolish those top heavyweight. not to mention Betarbiav Rockys size and great power beat USYK In amatours and droped him.....and in the prows everyone

[@Denmirden]

Those cubian in final was Andres Cabrera. He took next Olympic's gold medal. He was a tough guy. Cuba has great boxing school and fighters.

[@walter1893]

Andres also knocked out the legend mike mccallum in the 1979 pan american games. Which shows how good he was

[@WeCube1898]

Felix Savon

[@fmills1583]

I'm a Rocky fan but he should be talked about against guys that are cruiser weights. Not fair to Rocky put him vs guys 50-70 lbs heavier and 8 inches taller.

[@alfredoochoajr1525]

He'd still beat them

[@yes-qw6om]

stop trolling, rocky would beat them rock is top 10 up there with frazier, ali, foreman, louis

[@vinny6685]

I musta been hell for Roy growing up with young George as kids my brothers and I had all out brawls that were sometimes broken up by the police and none of us are Big George 😂.

[@Bismarck.1871]

Marciano had a right ALMOST as good as Wilder. Had a left ALMOST as good as Frazier. Had a chin ALMOST as strong as Chuvalo. Add this up and he can beat anyone

[@Bruins-vq5ey]

Wilder wished he had a right like Rocco

[@artisaprimus6306]

It's simply not fair to compare fighters from different eras. Athletes are just better today. Training, nutrition, are just two factors. Example, watch the NFL combine and see 300 pound plus men running 5 second or less 40 yard sprints. Rocky was a pioneer in cardiovascular training, but all athletes have access to the best science applied to all aspects of training. Rocky was a legend and deserves his place in boxing history.

[@colecampbell1906]

athletes today are bigger, not better. None of the boxers today could take the punishment he took and not only stay in the fight, but fight HARDER and actually turn it around and win. He didn't tire as the rounds went, if anything he started hitting faster and harder. Todays fighters have all these advantages but their comfortability in life makes them less advantageous. If fighters back then had the nutrients and stuff like that but still lived the hard lives with rigorous training, they'd kill any fighters today by a landslide.

[@artisaprimus6306]

@@colecampbell1906 Fighters of that era fought to feed the family. Some of them couldn't afford to fight as professionals without a part time job. They also fought 15 rounds instead of 12. I'm a big Rocky Marciano fan and I believe he was the greatest heavyweight in the history of boxing.

[@bensonhurst7272]

Louis was 37 and Rocky was 28. 9 years. Louis was older but not that much older.

[@williammurray2979]

I think the size of a heavyweight fighter is given too much consideration. Rocky liked fighting big fighters. They were easier for him to hit and they ran out of gas quicker. Big muscles require a lot of oxygen. Marciano would be on Tyson Fury as soon as the bell rang. Fury would think that he's standing in front of an airplane propeller. If the referee gave Fury a lot of leniency on grabbing and holding Marciano, he would be able to take it into the latter rounds. By the 9th or 10th round, Fury would go down.

[@DHEMGHJS]

Fury would rag doll Marciano he is nearly100lbs heavier and nearly a foot taller add to that he is a better boxer and quicker.

[@williammurray2979]

@@DHEMGHJS You should watch the Jack Dempsey - Jess Willard fight. That's what Marciano would do to Tyson Fury. You should also watch Don Turner's interview regarding Marciano kzbin.info/www/bejne/h3a0gYZqpLunmNE None of Fury opponents were in the class of Joe Louis, Ezzard Charles, Archie Moore, Roland LaStarza, etc. All those guys fought 100s of fights. That big balooka Fury gets in the ring once every two years, if he's sober.

[@DHEMGHJS]

@@williammurray2979I bought the Dempsey v Willard fight over 50 years ago ,and have probably watched it over a hundred times.Willard was a plodding cart horse content to stay behind his long jab.He was 37 years old when he fought Dempsey ,hadn't fought for 3 years and had one fight in the previous 4 years.Jess was a flabby ,rusty, overconfident champion with no footwork ,no finesse,and no speed.He was nothing like Fury who can move box and change stance from orthodox to southpaw with equal effectiveness. Louis was a one armed past it ex champ, getting by on his jab alone, fighting because he was indebt to the IRS.Charles was a great lhvy but not a great heavyweight he was also a ringworn 33 with nearly100 fights on his clock who had won 2 of his last 4 fights..Moore was a great lhvy but not a great heavy he was also,according to his Mother 41 years old!Moore said by the time he fought Marciano his legs were gone.Lastarza was a protected fighter who avoided all the IRON of the division two fights earlier he had been beaten by a journeyman lhvy ,not only beaten but knocked down he wouldnt make a decent sparring partner for the likes of gatekeeper Chisora ,let alone Fury! Don Turner? I'm not a fan, he talks a lot of BS imo and I've given a few examples of it on this site.I'm not a Fury fan, but he would embarrass Marciano who would look like a midget against him.

[@DHEMGHJS]

@@williammurray2979 DonTurner ,"the wise old sage of boxing".Turner asks "could Michael Carbajal beat Harold Dade?"Since Carbajal was a light flyweight and Dade was a bantamweight ,probably not!LOL! Don Turner is full of it!

[@williammurray2979]

@@DHEMGHJS Who has Fury fought? A 40 year old Klitschko. Chisora is a bum! Fury lost that first fight to Wilder. If a one punch Wilder can tag him, Fury must not be too slick of a boxer. I don't recognize anybody else that he has fought. All opponents (tomato cans). Marciano fought all the great challengers that were available during his rein. If Fury stays sober and beats Joshua and Ruiz, then maybe he's legit. I think Povetkin would knock Fury out. Man, you're drinking the koolaid on Fury because he's big guy. He's not that good.

[@ChristopherEvans-k1c]

Rocky beats all modern fighters, he was so tough and relentless he'd knock lumps of these guys,....his durability and stamina leaves modern fighters for dead, he could fight all night and never tired, today's fighters are blowing after a couple of rounds,...he'd never let these modern fighters breathe,...he'd swarm allover them ,...make no mistake about it,... Marciano was a fighter who'd trouble any one,.... You'd have to literally kill him to beat him

[@mikeriv60]

Funny all the people who never fought Marciano say " this and that" but when you look back a watch interviews with people who fought Marciano, they all say every every punch hurt in round 1 thru 15. So these discussions are pointless. Watch the 1st Marciano vs Walcott fight. Fantastic. Walcott using every dirty trick that he could. Holding Rocky's head with 1 hand and punching with the other lmao.

[@chucknchar]

Could Jessie Owens beat the top sprinters of today? So Rocky had his day and the only thing that we have is the refuse to lose mentality, Rocky's heart, Rocky would tell you, "You have to prove it to me.

[@arautus]

Right, Sugar Ray, Rocky Marciana fought at less than 190 pounds, he barely would be a cruiser weight. His chances would be much better vs the heavyweights of the 60s and early 70s.

[@michaelisgro-px7ex]

Re Marciano,there's merit in what they're saying him vs 3 big giants AJ,FURY,WILDER thou I'm not sure when this interview was done, reason being USYK must not have been heavyweight then... because he has clearly shown how to manhandle giants and destroy them as well as Andy Ruiz....so this clearly shows if Rocky was in today's era and administered the nutritional, substances to enhance power,speed etc....I believe he would've put 15-20 pounds on of pure devastation and would destroy all in front of him today! Thou I think he would be challenged with some of the heavyweights, i.e., Foreman, 80s, and 90s heavyweights.

[@willleon9165]

Leonard was great but didn't have long enough career to be ranked up there with greatest ever. Boy sure had atg level ability talent

[@saxa21]

The Rock hardest puncher in History. Nobody beats him.

[@JohnLuongo-bw8ni]

Undefeated is undefeated. What’s to ignore? In probably 130 years of heavyweight champions only one is undefeated. Just one. Did they all have tougher opponents than Marciano? I don’t think so. Don’t knock great fighters just because the guy we’re discussing doesn’t fit your agenda. Walcott, Charles, Louis and Moore were truly great fighters, and even at the age when Marciano fought them, would have beaten most of the heavyweights today. These guys today get by on size, their skills leave a lot to be desired.

[@srilaxmidalli3390]

Rocky Marciano Physical fitness.....Top Boxing skills.......Top He left Boxing, When he felt no, Ex Mohd Ali Didn't retire when Top, He left ring After loosing badly

[@JohnLuongo-bw8ni]

Valdes lost four straight in ‘52 and ‘53, Johnson, Moore and Baker. Pick another year.

[@jono8884]

Rocky would have fought in the light heavy weight or cruiser weights today.

[@JohnLuongo-bw8ni]

Right, Moore only knocked out a 100 guys. Charles killed a guy. Walcott had a left hook that could decapitate, ask Charles.

[@peterbartolomeo9574]

Look up trainer Don Turner on Marciano. He will set you straight. Marciano trained 8 months straight. Most fighters train 3 months. Marciano was the hardest hitting heavyweight that ever lived. He hit you in your arms you couldn't feel them after three rounds.

[@MrJusmobile]

Go to the Ali youtube video discussing Rocky, listen carefully to the way he describes Rocky and he said Rocky probably could have beaten him. He said he was sore when he said Rocky was older and just fooling with him. These guys you are discussing are BUMS!

[@Grizzlied2525]

Rocky ducked Marty Marshall, Johnson, Maxim, Pompey, Bivins, Satterfield, Valdez, Lloyd Marshall, Oakland Billy Smith, Clarence Henry, Curtis "Hatchetman" Sheppard, Jackson, Bucceroni and Baker just to name a few. *It's no secret that Rocky's manager Al Weill worked for mafia boss Frankie Carbo. Rocky was very carefully managed, tomato can after tomato can. Fast forward to the end of his extremely short career and all that was left were has-beens. WWII Korea back to back. Don't fight any that could beat us then leave before the young exposes us.* He knew he'd eventually have to confront Cleveland Williams, Johansson, Patterson, Liston, Machen, Folley, Valdez, Cooper, Miteff, London, Mildenberger, Jones, Terrell, Chuvalo, Clay, Bonavena, Quarry, Martin and Ellis just to name a few. We all could have found out how little Rocky would have done against all these guys had he not "UP-N-QUIT" during his prime after a measley (7) years while everyone else was fighting (15) to (25) years. For Pete's sake he was only 31 his last fight and to make matters even worse than quitting at only 31 years of age,, his last fight had to be against a 41 year old named Archie Moore born "1913" wikipedia! There's no way to sugarcoat it,, Rocky's 175 lb Heavyweight division was the smallest and weakest Heavyweight division in boxing history!

[@dannyburch2122]

Sugar Ray Robinson was the greatest Boxer of all time Rocky Marciano was the greatest Prize fighter of all time .

[@bingochoice]

marciano weighed 183lbs when he 1st won the title..

[@DHEMGHJS]

184 and a half actually.

[@Bruins-vq5ey]

These guys are giants today.. Klitschko Joshua wilder Fury.... But can they fight?

[@silk3778]

"Omg" Next they'll be saying Marciano Would've knocked out Mike Tyson ....

[@lastrada52]

Tyson Fury could not withstand that punching power against that Pillsbury Doughboy body that he has. Marciano was built like stone. Every fighter who ever mixed it up with Rocky came away saying their entire body hurt like hell, couldn't raise their arms & body punches took their oxygen from their lungs. Fury does not have the power to KO Marciano who had a great chin that was tested time and time again. Tyson Fury never went up against someone as aggressive as Rocky, had the endurance & stamina, and worked out the way he did for durability. Rocky was conditioned to go 15 rounds & I have seen Fury breathe through his mouth by the 4th round. Fury throws a lot of telegraphing arms & calls them punches. Almost every punch thrown by Rocky comes from the shoulder with 186 lbs behind it -- all KO punches. Fury likes to tie up, clinch, and hold on. Not with Rocky Marciano he won't. Rocky is double-fisted all the way, & Rocky knows how to cut off the ring. I can list a dozen more things about Rocky that put today's fighters at a disadvantage. We talk about why Rocky wouldn't win against today's fighters when we should be talking about why today's fighters couldn't win against Rocky Marciano or prime Jersey Joe Walcott. Look at his body. He did not have an ounce of fat on his muscular torso in the 50s when he was the champ & in far better condition than Tyson Fury. Since when is size a factor? If it was Jess Willard and Primo Carnera would have been champions for decades. With Marciano -- none of them hit opponents and sent them out of the ring more than Rocky. Over the ropes, collapsing in the corner & breaking noses, and cheekbones, severing teeth, and giving Carmen Vingo brain damage. None of them. KO artist Roland LaStarza had to go to the hospital after fighting Rocky. I'm sorry, I see big muscular guys in the ring but none to this day use a 300 LB punching bag, run 12 miles every day in training the way Rocky did. They're conditioned by pampering. None of today's fighters have ever met someone who comes forward aggressively, double-fisted, fast, powerful, unrelenting machine-like, head bobbing & using it to get you off balance, going low into a crouch and then putting his head on your hip and springs up going backward to let go with two punches to your head when you thought he was retreating. Rocky wasn't so much a boxer as a fighter. If the other guy was taller, heavier -- it didn't matter. We see it today in MMA & UFC. Fedor Emelianenko shouldn't have won many of the fights he did win. The men were too big, heavy, muscular, and experienced. But Fedor had skill, determination, and stamina, knew how to survive, and was crafty. I just described Rocky Marciano as well. The "old men" Rocky met in the ring were far more dangerous, skilled & experienced than all the fighters Sonny Liston met before Floyd Patterson. And then again, after losing to Cassius Clay (Ali) -- who did he fight who was a Rocky Marciano? None. No Jerry Quarry, Joe Frazier, Earnie Shavers, Oscar Bonavena or Jimmy Young. Ali met them...but not Sonny Liston. By the way, Floyd Patterson wasn't that big a heavyweight (6'0 & 188 lbs) & Sonny Liston was only 6'1 & 219 lbs. That's not exactly huge when you take into account that Rocky was probably in better shape than both of them. Lean, muscular, powerful with incredible breath endurance. Sonny was quite a lumbering type, not a fast heavyweight. His speed (in his jab) came in spurts while Rocky consistently pounded away. I think Sonny would get confused in a fight with someone like that. The Rocky aggression would certainly play a role. Sonny's expecting you to stand still. I think that's why they kept him away from Marciano. There was a risk. Sorry for the long post -- it's a passion -- as it is with you.

[@deanwaller8283]

No,much as I love the rock,he's not going to beat the likes of Lennox Lewis,the klitchkos,and so on,to small.

[@yes-qw6om]

fanboy, size dont matter when talking about rocky

[@colecampbell1906]

"too small" is what they said every fight before he knocked out the bigger man.

[@MARINEMARINE-gy5lf]

The pushing, pulling and moving around would not work against Marciano. Pulling Marciano towards you would be insanity and pushing him around would be a waste of energy. Marciano could only fight on the inside due to his short arms. The giant heavyweights are terrible. Foreman vs Qaui fight have a similar disparity in height and Foreman used pushing his opponents as a technique. It is a fight that you the poster and Mr. Jones should watch. Too much emphasis is put on weight if Quai weighed 187 and in condition, he would have beaten old George. Marciano vs the giants would have been broken ribs. Boxing is a marathon and the giant heavyweights are not cut out for the pace. The 35 punches a round and half of them being jabs that today's heavyweights throw would not have worked. The division had always been 175 and up Louis fought and beat bigger men. Sam Langford had fought and beat bigger men. Ewart Potgieter was bigger than Shaq. The heavy weight division has been on the decline for a longtime and much of it is due to the heavyweights getting bigger. It would be hard to sell the baddest man on the planet when he is smaller than the average NFL punter. Heavyweight champs of the 70s comeback and beat top contenders in the 90s and Big George winning the title. Now there is talk of an exhibition with Mike Tyson and Tyson Furry. Boxing is a dead sport. Imagine if an idea of an exhibition was purposed for Marciano vs Dempsey or Louis vs Johnson. It would have been considered ridiculous. Tyson ad Jones exhibition was the #2 PPV combat event of the year highlights the sad state of boxing. Boxing is the only sport that was better in the past. The peak was right after WWII

[@John-pc2yr]

Joe louis wasn't 87 when scmelling beat him

[@JeffreyGlover65]

The 10th best Heavywieght of the '70s would beat any of the Heavywieghts fighting today. The division right now is pathetic

[@rockyfish3115]

marciano would murder modern hws because the clinch to much the rock was deadly inside

[@michaelbarlow6610]

Roy Jones Jr., as knowledgeable as he is about boxing, couldn't be more wrong about Marciano's chances against the modern heavyweight boxing champions like Tyson. Marciano would definitely knock out Mike Tyson because not only were Marciano's punches like being hit with a wrecking ball, but he had an unrelenting tenacity that Tyson lacked as was proven when Tyson failed to get up in time after being knocked to the canvas by Buster Douglas ( a good but definitely not all-time great fighter) with one of the most beautiful three-punch sequences ever seen in boxing history! As Teddy Atlas told Joe Rogan on the podcast, "The Joe Rogan Experience", Tyson lacked what so many of the great champions like Ali, Joe Louis, Marciano, Dempsey, Tunney, Jack Johnson, Joe Frazier and Evander Holyfield had and that is a "warrior's heart"! Marciano, by contrast, showed his tremendous heart and tenacity by knocking out Jersey Joe Walcott in the 13th round after trailing on both judges' scorecards after the 12th round! Contrary to popular belief, Walcott was not "washed-up" when he lost to Marciano in that fight! Although he was 38 or 39 years old and past his peak, he was still very, very good at that time and near the "top of his game" so to speak.

[@dannyburch2122]

Well said brother

[@michaelbarlow6610]

@@ascendediam . It is your comments that are certifiable nonsense! You are totally clueless as to just how great and tough-as-nails Rocky Marciano was in his pro boxing career! Marciano had one of the greatest, if not the greatest, boxing trainers in history in Charlie Goldman to teach him proper footwork, balance and how to work his way inside to pound the opponent while defending himself properly through quick head movement. Marciano was superb at using his immensely strong forearms and elbows to block opponents' punches and then launch vicious and outstanding counterattacks against opponents! So enjoy your delusion that Marciano would be creamed by modern heavyweights like Ali, Tyson, etc! And while you're at it, why not enlighten us all as to the current conditions on planet Mars since that is obviously where your delusional and exceedingly feeble, amoeba-level "brain" is currently residing!

[@ascendediam]

Roy Jones Jr., as knowledgeable as he is about boxing, couldn't be more wrong about Marciano's chances against the modern heavyweight boxing champions like Tyson. Marciano would definitely knock out Mike Tyson because not only were Marciano's punches like being hit with a wrecking ball, but he had an unrelenting tenacity that Tyson lacked as was proven when Tyson failed to get up in time after being knocked to the canvas by Buster Douglas ( a good but definitely not all-time great fighter) with one of the most beautiful three-punch sequences ever seen in boxing history! As Teddy Atlas told Joe Rogan on the podcast, "The Joe Rogan Experience", Tyson lacked what so many of the great champions like Ali, Joe Louis, Marciano, Dempsey, Tunney, Jack Johnson, Joe Frazier and Evander Holyfield had and that is a "warrior's heart"! Marciano, by contrast, showed his tremendous heart and tenacity by knocking out Jersey Joe Walcott in the 13th round after trailing on both judges' scorecards after the 12th round! Contrary to popular belief, Walcott was not "washed-up" when he lost to Marciano in that fight! Although he was 38 or 39 years old and past his peak, he was still very, very good at that time and near the "top of his game" so to speak.

[@ascendediam]

Roy Jones Jr., as knowledgeable as he is about boxing, couldn't be more wrong about Marciano's chances against the modern heavyweight boxing champions like Tyson. Marciano would definitely knock out Mike Tyson because not only were Marciano's punches like being hit with a wrecking ball, but he had an unrelenting tenacity that Tyson lacked as was proven when Tyson failed to get up in time after being knocked to the canvas by Buster Douglas ( a good but definitely not all-time great fighter) with one of the most beautiful three-punch sequences ever seen in boxing history! As Teddy Atlas told Joe Rogan on the podcast, "The Joe Rogan Experience", Tyson lacked what so many of the great champions like Ali, Joe Louis, Marciano, Dempsey, Tunney, Jack Johnson, Joe Frazier and Evander Holyfield had and that is a "warrior's heart"! Marciano, by contrast, showed his tremendous heart and tenacity by knocking out Jersey Joe Walcott in the 13th round after trailing on both judges' scorecards after the 12th round! Contrary to popular belief, Walcott was not "washed-up" when he lost to Marciano in that fight! Although he was 38 or 39 years old and past his peak, he was still very, very good at that time and near the "top of his game" so to speak.

[@ascendediam]

Roy Jones Jr., as knowledgeable as he is about boxing, couldn't be more wrong about Marciano's chances against the modern heavyweight boxing champions like Tyson. Marciano would definitely knock out Mike Tyson because not only were Marciano's punches like being hit with a wrecking ball, but he had an unrelenting tenacity that Tyson lacked as was proven when Tyson failed to get up in time after being knocked to the canvas by Buster Douglas ( a good but definitely not all-time great fighter) with one of the most beautiful three-punch sequences ever seen in boxing history! As Teddy Atlas told Joe Rogan on the podcast, "The Joe Rogan Experience", Tyson lacked what so many of the great champions like Ali, Joe Louis, Marciano, Dempsey, Tunney, Jack Johnson, Joe Frazier and Evander Holyfield had and that is a "warrior's heart"! Marciano, by contrast, showed his tremendous heart and tenacity by knocking out Jersey Joe Walcott in the 13th round after trailing on both judges' scorecards after the 12th round! Contrary to popular belief, Walcott was not "washed-up" when he lost to Marciano in that fight! Although he was 38 or 39 years old and past his peak, he was still very, very good at that time and near the "top of his game" so to speak.

[@dazhwood]

Fast fwd 40/60 years and scale the Rock up and see where the land lies 👊🏻 …all get smoked

[@davidleach4689]

Even ali said he didnt believe he could beat rocky.

[@richardcarlin1332]

With current boxing rules, Marciano would lose because he gets cut too easily so all the giant heavyweights have to do is jab until Marciano gets stopped on cuts.

[@GeorgiaBoy1961]

@ Richard Carlin: In one of his successful title defenses, Marciano's nose was split open by a punch fairly early in the fight, almost like someone had slashed it with a knife. He was literally breathing out the front of his nose as much as he was out of his nostrils. Didn't matter: Rock completed the fight without issue and won anyway. Marciano could absorb punishment that would have killed a lesser man. Even his fellow all-time great heavyweights were in awe of his apparent inability to feel pain. He was famous for taking punishment and then roaring back like a lion to win in the late rounds, often with a KO. Marciano was a genetic freak in terms of his attributes for the ring. It is unwise to count him out against any fighter of any era. Modern people assume that modern men are, by definition, stronger than people from the past, but it isn't always or even usually true. Marciano was also peerless in his conditioning. He worked harder to condition himself than any fighter in history, arguably. He wasn't pretty, but by God, he was a nightmare in the ring for other fighters.

[@colecampbell1906]

true, but throw them in his rules and he'd beat their asses down lol. They ain't going 15 rounds with him and they sure ain't stopping him.

[@bobgarrett7134]

Donny Lalonde was a bum. Ray Leonard abandoned the middleweight title he won from Hagler. He would have been forced to fight top contenders: Michael Nunn or Mike McCallum. They would have knocked Ray out. Ray finagled the easy Lalonde fight for a vacant title. Ray was clever. Ray ducked Michael Nunn, James Toney, and Mike McCallum at 160 to fight Terry Norris at 154. There were several fabulous middleweights who Leonard managed to avoid. Leonard knew Terry Norris had been KO'd by Julian Jackson. He knew Norris had a bad chin. But Norris beat the shit out of Leonard and made him retire at 34. That was it for Ray, except for an ill-fated comeback against Hector Camacho who stopped Leonard in 5 rounds.

[@handsom3jam955]

Robinson was amazing but Harry Greb is the best fighter to ever live. A natural welterweight who beat 16{the record} HOF boxers at their peak. He fought the most ducked murderers row and won. A natural welterweight who became lineal heavyweight champ and beat all-time HOF Heavyweights Like Gene Tunney.