4 to 8 stroke engine: what if you add 4 wasted strokes to engine cycle?

[@cmcb7230]

These guys are my heroes, they just come up with the craziest contraptions and just send it. No over thinking, just make it happen.

[@billmyke746]

Damn straight.

[@volvo09]

Yep, just when you think "what else could they do to a car?" They come up with another crazy idea!

[@Chris6R97]

👍🏻🔧

[@Njazmo]

Russians? Heroes?

[@volvo09]

@@Njazmo dude they are people, they have no connection to what their government does. FYI the US is not innocent in global conflict. By your response I assume you are from the US.

[@youandiryan]

I love this channel. They work so hard at constantly pushing out new videos and new ideas. They don't care about what's going on with their country. And they don't talk about it. They just keep pushing out great content. Loyal to their channel and fans. No matter where in the world we live

[@VeraTR909]

I wonder if some of their crew have been conscripted, but these are not the people causing the problems going on. They actually show that mechanically minded people all enjoy these things no matter where they're from.

[@peggenlejoncar9529]

@@VeraTR909 is it nato parrot talking now? Lets involve you in there, 💣🎇🤣

[@youandiryan]

@@peggenlejoncar9529 come on guys no fighting. Is already too much of that. Let's just all get along!

[@youandiryan]

@@VeraTR909 I hope not brother.

[@VeraTR909]

@@peggenlejoncar9529 I wrote you a poem:

[@Cyores]

I love this channel. These people are so original and unpretentious, they stick to the true identity of their channel.

[@brandonatwood8409]

Delayed speed of camshaft means longer duration on all stages. Incredibly long periods of time leaving exhaust and intake valves closed leads to a hard crank condition among other related issues.

[@georgehughes3832]

Or, alternatively, the valves will be open and closed at the wrong time, that way not allowing the engine to breathe properly.

[@tomrogers9467]

Beat me to it. Dwell angle and timing will be way off.

[@MikeHoncho0811]

Exactly the valves are working too slowly in order for it to work with their setup the cams would need to have some extremely steep lobes

[@tomrogers9467]

@@MikeHoncho0811. If the distributor is camshaft driven…..oh, I can’t be bothered to figure out how that would even work!

[@scofab]

Ya I came to say the same thing, too much duration.

[@Kristjan10a]

You need to modify the cam shaft as well. When there are extra strokes the valves will be half open, half closed, and it will take fuel and air in, but will actually expell the fuel when there is a wasted stroke between intake and compression stroke, the valves are opened and will expell fuel and air from the intake. The camshaft needs the lobes moddified so the valves are closed during intake and compression strokes ,and are opened when exhaust stroke is in action. It can be done but camshaft needs a lot of work even if it even can be done. This will make engine have les horspower and will waste a lot of fuel. On paper it can be done but in real life it will be realy hard.

[@joshuagibson2520]

All that wasted fuel is just going to wash the cylinders and end up in the oil pan diluting the oil.

[@andrewt9204]

Yeah, it's a lot of wasted fuel....

[@FuckGoogle502]

Won't waste any fuel. Intakes and exhausts will be closed during the wasted strokes. It should spin twice as fast and make a slightly lower horsepower. Edit: It's basically just compressing the air, then springing back when the air wants to expand on the wasted strokes, like a diesel trying to engine brake without a Jake brake. Double edit: Actually, it shouldn't be compressing much air since the intake and exhaust will be closed, so either the pressure of vacuum will cause it to slow and lose power or it really won't make much difference in power at all, other than needing to spin at twice the RPM to make it as the original configuration. I'd love to see them actually try this.

[@chrissanders2562]

Ultimately this setup is only going to hinder an engine with no benefits gained.

[@simonallan9941]

​@joshuagibson2520 no it will be pushed back out the still open inlet valve when the piston goes back up 😅

[@jkent9915]

Make a 3 cylinder engine that is 2 stroke diesel on the front cylinder and 4 stroke gasoline on the middle back two. Using 3 out of 4 cylinders on your Lada engine the crankshaft will already be right. You just need a cam shaft with extra lobes for the 2 stroke cylinder, and an exhaust that works. A flat-plane 3 cylinder effectively firing like a 4 cylinder. Firing order 1-3-1-2. Make that work and then build an in-line 6 engine with the front and rear cylinders 2 stroke. A cross-plane in-line 6 cylinder effectively firing like a 8 cylinder. Firing order 1-5-6-2-1-4-6-3.

[@maczzangsam]

Garage 54 is by far the most underrated channel on KZbin! These guys are absolutely amazing. Thank you for the awesome content ❤

[@srdjansolomun3869]

If they reduce speed of camshaft twice that mean:on intake stroke valve stay open when piston go down and up, for compresion stroke. That explain why carburator leak fuel on air filter side, piston push back air fuel mixture. On next crankshaft rotation, piston go down and up but all valve is closes so ignition mixture is weak because in previus crankshaft rotation piston push out thrue carburatior most of mixture, that explain poor performane and hard to start engine. I think they need to change camshaft to short time for valve open pozition.

[@Deviation4360]

These guys are making a mockery out of most established engineering thought and trends. Incredible working welded crankshafts, now this. I personally was expecting a carburetor to go into orbit and nothing else.

[@GrantJohnston-dr9rt]

That's why it's fun!

[@Riv_Longsnoot]

Interestingly, this isn’t a particularly new idea - in the early 1900s, single cylinder 8-stroke engines were produced under the name “Aermotor”. They did it mainly to improve cooling if I remember correctly. Seeing it done with more than one cylinder is pretty neat!

[@jblob5764]

Sounds less efficient than a hit and miss engine in the long run

[@v3xx3r]

​@@jblob5764to be fair only like 3 people even knew how an engine worked at the time

[@pacosancas0]

Great video! You´ll need to re-shape the cam lobes as well. Otherwise, the intake valve will not yet be fully open when the intake stroke ends, but will be fully open at some point during the upwards 'waste' stroke after it. Similarly, the exhaust valve will be fully open during the downwards 'waste' stroke after the upwards exhaust stroke. The engine might run, as you demonstrated, but with great loss of power and wasted fuel too.

[@christianborghi7544]

To get that to work you would need a custom grind cam as valves would be open for two full strokes not one

[@DocSprocket]

That's where my head was at. Wouldn't the cam lobes need to be ground to half the original duration? And probably retimed at that?

[@kidkidu2]

@@DocSprocket I was looking for comments regarding it being able to work. I was thinking it would be : stroke 1 - intake stroke 2 - push out the gas trough the intake and the valve closes and from there on there would be no gas to burn in the cylinder and all of the other strokes would be pointless.

[@DocSprocket]

@kidkidu2 Hell, I dunno. I think if you fiddled with the cam timing enough, you could sort of achieve a duration average in which it sorta worked, like it did in the video. However... I think they were trying to achieve a full otto cycle (per cylinder) followed by a "dead" cycle. I don't believe that's what happened. It would run like death- exactly like 2 dead holes on a four cylinder. Instead, I think they achieve that average I mentioned, which resulted in no "dead" strokes- just no performance, either.

[@kidkidu2]

@@DocSprocket Presuming the cam timing modification, if they'd push the cam timing back 1 stroke, you could have the cycle starting at BDC, and then stroke 1 pushing out the intake, stroke 2 intake and then the valve closing, then stroke 3 compression with a spark, stroke 4 would be a power stroke, 5 and 6 going down and up with the gasses trapped, then 7 opening the exhaust and pushing the gasses out, then sucking them back in at the 8th stroke, and then 1st stroke pushing the exhaust up in the intake and then getting some gas back in and so on. But yeah, it would run like shit if it even worked.

[@illbeyourmonster3591]

These guys are going to have their minds blown when they discover timing lights.

[@Njazmo]

And WW3

[@jagmarc]

It is quicker overall to just waggle the distributor back and forth for the right sound, but that is only for 'normal' engines

[@feelingold2995]

@@NjazmoOk lil Commie..🤣🤣

[@sgtbrown4273]

​@feelingold2995 you have it backwards 🤦‍♂️

[@kanaric]

lol which media? KZbin and X are where people talk about WW3.@@manitoba-op4jx

[@aidanlyons1155]

Thats amazing it ran even idled! Now of course, if we are to be honest, its probably cutting the already modest power output of that Lada in half. Just like a two stroke makes roughly twice as much power as a four stroke, this would make very little power since the combustion is happening so infrequently and the crank is basically coasting for longer in between explosions. I bet theres a use for it in some industrial setting though, and probably is already. Good job as usual boys!

[@AlterOssi]

Hi guys, i have to say i love your experiments very much. I never heard or even thought about a 8 stoke engine. But you just did the experiment open minded. This is so impressive and refreshing ! Realy good work!

[@nonoyorbusness]

Hmm 1st april coming up!

[@georgestam1710]

Though that too.......

[@thatguyalex2835]

Same here. Wonder what April 1st pranks G54 will play on us. :)

[@stephenjones464]

An innovative way to ~halve the power of an engine and increase the friction!

[@19Daantje98]

I don't believe they actually did it, it's not possible in the way they did it. Having a camshaftsprocket twice the size means the intake valve is open when the piston goes down and also back up, pushing out all the air and gasoline. Then the wasted stroke, then powerstroke at the end of the wasted stroke. At 12:05 you can see they have fitted a bigger cranksprocket to make the ratio 2:1 again, which is normal for a 4 stroke engine. The 8 stroke engine would've needed a 4:1 gear ratio.

[@maxine_q]

That's how they made it work. I did not notice that.

[@ninjaturtles1010]

This is the most fun car channel on KZbin!

[@christianhunt7382]

this a real meta episode, where you fuck it up for the sake of fucking it up, cause everything i've ever seen you guys do, you fuck shit up. keep at it fellas!

[@TheRattyBiker]

Fantastic you got it to run at all, let alone drive.

[@jeffryblackmon4846]

As always, great content. I appreciate the translations. I wonder why all the automakers have not thought of this a century ago.

[@danmaycock9238]

Your ideas never cease to astound me, nice work 👍 Had a thought that if you were to incorporate a few of these ideas to one car and do loads of tests on it on a dyno, mpg, 0-60, tweakability etc. Imagine a crossplane 8 stroke with unequal manifolds both sides just sounding proper mind bending but ACTUALLY being...future.

[@danmaycock9238]

Maybe use water injection on the next power cycle too??

[@Bad_Idea_Garage]

I'm honestly fascinated that you got this to run, on a carburetor no less. With a stock spec camshaft, you double the duration specs which means... Well a lot of things. I doubt it would have real benefit to retrofit something into this, but it is super neat to see that something could, in fact, run this way. And a hell of a conversation topic especially for new mechanics or those in school to learn.

[@PapiDoesIt]

I want to hear the exhaust sound. It should be quite different.

[@manomyth11]

at 7:44 I say the extra cycle sucks in one cycle's worth of fuel without any combustion, so that extra fuel is just sitting there waiting, then another cycle's worth of fuel comes again, but it's too much for it to fire properly', and that's what is happening'

[@Gary-yo4rs]

I suggested an 8 stroke cycle in a Senior project in 1971. The idea was based on the Eaton/GM 8/6/4 system idea. Rather than shut down a cylinder bank or a set of cylinders until extra power was needed each cylinder was left fallow for 4 cycles (2 revs) before another power cycle begins. This would have an engine from say an 8 cylinder engine to a 4 cylinder. This can now be done with electronics controlling spark and fuel, even valves if necessary. This keeps the cylinders warm for better efficiency. That being better wear, emissions and reduced friction on unpowered cycles. I think this would give around 30% improvement in efficiency. I outlined this in a paper at my university in Valparaiso Indiana. Unfortunately technical and time deficiencies precluded physical modeling. Check with university for any patent issues. Cheers.

[@markchapman2585]

You guy's have the best car idea's on KZbin.

[@Ghastly24]

i think this engine concept should go into production, i mean id buy it for long roadtrips and mild hauling

[@MrGringo466]

i think you forgot about the compression, the valves are closed by default which would cause restrictions when the "wasted stroke" happens which is likely why the starter was having such a hard time. if you had one of the valves open this problem would be somewhat alleviated, if you use the exhausts you will be sucking pollutants back into the engine further contaminating the oil, if you use the intake then you mess with the vacuum/intake physics. best thing would be a "open air" valve but this would require more engine modifications than a single video would cover. maybe multiple videos but it would require much more than just crank/valve ratios. Using only 4 cyl engine this makes it much more difficult since you are moving 3 pistons with a single piston providing the power so this issue would be much more pronounced vs something like a I8 or I6 engine.

[@BDN355]

Ive learned that nothing is impossible in Russia

[@TimpBizkit]

Do they have a custom cam shaft on this because simply halving the speed of the camshaft will not do what they want. Normally you have INTAKE valve open, then both valves closed for compression and ignition expansion, then EXHAUST valve open for the final stroke. Even if timed correctly at the beginning, a half speed camshaft will have the intake valve open on both drawing fuel in and the compression, trying to send fuel air mixture back where it came from (hence the carburettor spewing fuel), then you will have two complete crank shaft revolutions with both valves closed, and then the exhaust valve will be open to draw exhaust into the cylinder and blow it straight out again. That's if you avoid damaging the valves if they are open with the cylinder at top dead centre.

[@DocSprocket]

I'm having a bit of trouble with this one. Slowing the camshaft down to half speed (that was half, right?) is going to seriously mess with valve duration. I mean, yes it ran- but what the heck is going on inside that engine?

[@NoNeedForSensorsOnYouTube]

Ideas that nobody has tried yet. Great channel! 🤘

[@SunnnyDay]

This Team are great innovators and they are FEARLESS !

[@jamesfahey4508]

A 6-stroke was patented in 1917, and many times since, so no doubt people have tried this before.

[@alvinhyman6838]

These guys are great! They have done some crazy stuff and actually made it work. Their motor made of PVC that actually worked fair with 2 cylinders might fly if they used 8 cylinders. Always enjoy what they come up with.

[@Hammervore]

As per the timeshaft is rotating 4times less you have to reduce valve opening times on it because it might be open too long on intake and exhaust cycle loosing pressure.

[@65bug519]

The 8 stroke Aero motor was a small pumping engine but it held the intake valve open while coasting.

[@pimpstick2]

koenigsegg uses an 8 stroke engine to pressurize an air tank for the freevalve(camless electropneumatic valves) system. It would be cool if you guys could try to make this 8 stroke pressurize a tank for some air bags or a home made freevalve system like the miata guy.

[@thedarkknight1971]

04:25 - 24 volts frying everything? Ha! No... 😏.. Years back, I had an old Ford Orion 1.6, and one day she wouldn't start, so a friend came and helped me with a spare good battery and so we connected it up to the Orions' battery, but, STILL no joy... So... For sh!ts n giggles, I connected the batteries up in serial! F@ck yeah!!! she spun up QUICK! But, still wouldn't start... So, back to the 2 battery 12v way, and after more attempts, she FINALLY started up!!! 😎🇬🇧

[@erkinalp]

Now make a double action diesel engine ie both top and bottom faces of piston doing power strokes in turn. The crankshaft can be dealt with a double scotch yoke system.

[@GHOOGLEMALE]

Its Russian - It'll be a double vodka yoke 🤣

[@invisiblekid7374]

These dudes are awesome!! Been a fan for a while now and they never cease to amaze me!!

[@richardthomas1743]

This should sound awesome! Hell YEAH!!

[@wendellsmith1349]

4 extra stokes full of non burnt fuel.

[@danielsmith9500]

Y’all guys are pretty awesome. I love watching what y’all do

[@johnjelinek-g7b]

I figured it would have ZERO torque but you guys proved me wrong . lol Great job guys . :)

[@projector7141]

You could just halve the ignition timing to do the same thing.

[@joebloggs3116]

Hey guys, what i dont get is how did you change the 4:1 ratio by changing the tooth count from 44:11 to 42:11? 11 isn't even a multiple for 42! Didnt it bend all the valves when the cam got out of phase after a turn or two?

[@maxgood42]

I think it is a clearence stroke engine like the early RAV4 as in the valvse will not touch if the timing belt fails Also I think what is happening here is the cam is now closing the valves faster to get compression and due to the odd ratio it is cycling between tuned and untuned cylinders 🤣🤣🤣

[@MartinGamer6241]

Hello, im new to this channel, saw your videos and i love it, your channel is the best! New Subscriber!

[@digitalchaos1980]

Welcome! You won't be disappointed with these folks! 😎

[@thatguyalex2835]

If you liked Top Gear in the 2010s, Garage 54 is the best car channel of them all. These guys at G54 tinker more than Top Gear ever did, and is my fix for car stuff after the 2002 Top Gear ended in 2015. 11/10 best car channel.

[@Rusty-METAL-J]

I tell you what Vlad, it's got Sooooooooooooo much torque at the wheels its off the charts. I could see it in the increase/decrease timings of the wheel spin.

[@blar2112]

It needs an extra heavy flywheel

[@spanishtreasure9551]

exactly it need 10 lbs + lead on flywheel

[@timw6596]

Trying to figure this one out hurts my brain ! Good job guys !

[@Kiyoone]

You guys are always doing something interesting! Thanks for the good laughs!!

[@nastyn8te328]

One day they are going to create something that changes the whole automotive industry

[@demplik3455]

do more experimenting and converting engine like this! i like this content 👍👍

[@fascistpedant758]

All it needed was a bigger crankshaft sprocket.

[@nikkids0272]

Russians and vodka can conquer the world with this engineering! Keep it up G54

[@Frosty_Icepck]

Add wasted spark for the wasted stroke

[@nastyn8te328]

24 volts should be ok as long as you only use 24volts for cranking the engine and when it starts up disconnect one of the 12 volt batteries used to make 24 volts I see people do it all the time

[@dongordon4464]

I believe it needs a special camshaft.

[@lordmmx1303]

do this to roadworthy car, add turbo and go somewhere to test eficiency and power and fuel consumption.

[@garyhardwick8489]

Try a 16 stroke engine next!

[@dimitar4y]

Wait, so now that there's a wasted stroke- feed the exhaust gases to it! Like a very advanced EGR

[@theangrypainter826]

I am surprised this worked! Well done everyone.

[@GAMINGOBRIEN69]

i love the art on your walls

[@YblockEnthusiast]

Man these guys are amazing mechanics and engineers

[@Kelita_penguin]

The issue is, all 4 'strokes' of the engine, in comp comb and ex all have a down and up of the piston, which completely undoes all of the stuff that stroke does

[@joey66436]

yep was hoping someone had picked up on that. With the cam timing advanced, the intake may open early, but close early, on the down stroke. Same and opposite for the exhaust. Surprised it ran!

[@georgemasouris4006]

That's the concrete roof lada! 😂

[@krisztianromer433]

Problem is now every stroke lasts twice as long, meaning during an intake stroke the piston goes down and then back up right? So it pushes the air back out

[@thedarkknight1971]

@Garage54 - How about a 4 cylinder 'Parallel twin'? ie Mod the crank, cam & timing so that cylinders 1 & 4 fire THEN cylinders 2 & 3 fire. HOW would that feel in driveability/traction/torque? 🤔😏👍 😎🇬🇧

[@borcsokszilveszter2566]

half the camshaft speed doubles the duration , you need narrower camlobes too

[@martinsv9183]

Would have been interesting if it was possible to somehow measure difference in fuel economy.

[@T_Burd_75]

I'm wondering if the original cam timing had a certain degree of advance, like 4 degrees, if it needed advanced to 8 degrees. Also with the ignition timing, if it also needed to be doubled. Like, instead of 5 degrees BTDC, if it needs advanced to 10 degrees BTDC.

[@m.b.82]

The cam duration will be crazy

[@foreverendeavors6210]

I say build a lada engine as extreme as possible, huge cam, 4 barrel, crazy intake, high compression pistons, ported head, unless you already did this build..

[@slantedperspective]

i would love to here the exhaust sounds

[@dole8001]

Can you bolt 2 Lada crankcases together to make a horizontally opposed 8 cylinder motor?

[@videosandmoremouse4626]

Love to see a 0. 60 speed test power

[@Gkuljian]

It's alive!

[@whispro4646]

Such a great channel

[@reinekewf7987]

i had tyed another ignition system thats half its speed or i had used a 8 cylinder inline ignition and used every second lead. i thinks the problem is the valve being open so long

[@bitkarek]

7:40 Engineering Explained parody ;)

[@str11pes]

Sergei is super smart

[@thehi-techredneck3011]

To make this work correctly you are going to have to shorten all the cam lobes by half the duration of an engine spinning at the same RPM as normal. The cam is now spinning 1 time to every 4 engine revolutions. The only true way to know if this is a power adder or not is with something that can test pulling power against a normal one. You are going to have to shorten that cam though so the coughing you were talking about can actually happen. With this, you will get the true definition of expansion, and the second burn is possible with an 8-stroke engine so potentially adding more fuel during the second stroke of compression could be used. As a tuner, I would put a second direct injector for the second stroke before the exhaust ever even opens. The second fuel injector will not need nearly as much fuel to ignite as there is not as much oxygen in the cylinder either and cylinder cooling could be something to worry with as achieving a true burn at 800 degrees or so might be an issue and building heat would take double or triple the time to do. Just food for thought.

[@I.Live4oldcars.prospecting]

Awesome video. What does the bigger cam gear do does it make the camshaft rotate faster or slower?

[@devensautox4698]

You should make a 8-valve per cylinder head. For a world record!

[@francisgoldstien6153]

It would work if your cam lobes had half the duration

[@Dusky_The_Husky]

Ultimate challenge unlocked... A clear see through 8 stroke resin Engine. 🎉

[@Fieltrom]

Lean carb on 4 stroke would be rich on a 8 stroke, didn't see them touch it. Get that air/fuel ratio it should fire on it's own.

[@Wunstab]

Can you post HQ stills of your calculations? I'm an engineering major in a precalc class and I'm extra excited to see the practicality come to life with something I'm close to understanding

[@robinpage2730]

6 stroke engines injected water into the chamber between each exhaust and air intake stroke. They were the most efficient and powerful engines of WW2 fighter aircraft

[@13aceofspades13]

I don't recall any WWII fights being six stroke with water injection. Most aircraft used 4 strokes, either V-12s, inverted V-12S or radials, usually double row. There was one special engine which was the British Napier Sabre which used sleeve valves, but it was still 4 stroke. What engine are you referring to exactly that had 6 strokes. And from my understanding having 2 strokes out of 6 where water is being injected may only be a wasted of power.

[@d455ave]

They did use water injection. But it was misted into the intake air. Helped with cooling so you could run leaner and not burn up valves, iirc.

[@a64738]

That is just water injection, it does not make it 6 stroke... Some people do it on high performance turbo car engines to get even more power and cool down the engine so they can run even higher turbo boost.

[@imaginewonderwhy]

Aren't you slowing down the cam lobes so thee valves are probably open while the piston is up and down before the valve closes?

[@volvo09]

Since this is carbureted it would end up consuming more fuel, since there is a wasted intake and compression stroke sending unburned fuel out the exhaust. Cool that you got it to run though! I stink at that level of math.

[@grabasandwich]

Yeah, wouldn't it achieve the same result if they just cut the spark on every second firing stroke?

[@dirtysteve7866]

With the cam turning at half the speed, the intake valves are closed on every other intake stroke. Don't know how it's running with a dead intake and compression stroke.

[@Njazmo]

@@dirtysteve7866because Russians.

[@jagmarc]

would it? arent the valves closed during the dummy strokes?

[@jagmarc]

@@manitoba-op4jx When valves are closed piston moving there's almost no pumping losses drag. If you don't believe me try it remove a camshaft so all the valves closed the starter spins as if there's no cylinder head fitted.

[@randellgribben9772]

always interesting to see what you come up with..

[@carwashadamcooper1538]

I never saw the crank gear. I'm not certain they didn't fudge this one.. Entertaining, but was it an honest experiment? First time ever questioning garage 54, and I don't like the feeling....

[@joshzotz7445]

I'm right there with you. Something isn't right.

[@hylppy]

Yeah, this makes no sense. The last bit of logic flew out the window when they changed the gearing to 11-42. At least the ratio should be a whole number. Maybe they also swapped the crankshaft sprocket to 21T and decided not to show it, effectively not changing anything but replacing the belt drive with a DIY chain drive.

[@Chappomusic]

If you use something like Fiat’s Multiair for the valve train and program it right it might work ..

[@EvanPang-w4i]

I was not expecting that to fire up!

[@satanicinduction]

I did not expect that to work. I would love to know the valve and ignition timing that made that run.

[@seancollins9745]

You've doubled the cam lobe duration, so, you'll have to grind the lobes to half the duration

[@pq9727]

Hi guys, have you thought of converting a 4 cylinder, 4 stroke engine into a 5 stroke engine