40-65 Winchester Using 3F Black Powder

[@ramsaycountry1177]

That's awesome Toad, using all the tricks (drop tube, vibration, and seating a wad) to get the most powder in those cases. Those black powder rifles are surprisingly accurate. Everyone I've shot shoot shoots pretty good. Stay safe brother 🙏 👍

[@GhostRiderUSA]

That's the 1st time I've seen rounds like that. Very interesting loading procedure.

[@ToadleyBrowne]

Black powder is a hoot.:)

[@Re-Booter]

I haven an old Swede Rolling block 1874 action with a heavy match barrel in 40-65, I was given this rifle with bunch of brass and bullets and loading data. It is impressive accuracy on these old warriors.

[@slowhand1198]

Nice adaptation of the rig. It's remarkable what you can get out of stuff you have when improvisation is called for.

[@ToadleyBrowne]

Getting comfortable on the ground was a small project:) Thanks!

[@billrea66]

I just finished reloading 39/50 cases (lost 9. 7 due to die abberation while expanding and 4 due to bullet too deep in case )I used IMR 4198 powder ranging from 23.5 gr to 26 gr pushing a 250 gr RNFP projectile . Rifle is a custom Scheutzen with Lyman Superspot scope . Haven't fired it yet ...

[@stephensexton5572]

I load black powder cartridges for a 444 Marlin Rolling Block that almost match your loads... 435 grain bullet, 59 grains of goex olde eynsford 3f

[@davidjensen2411]

That's really interesting, thanks for sharing!

[@ToadleyBrowne]

Thank you for watching.

[@bobhaehn5470]

Black powder, lead whappers and iron sights. YOWZA Toad!

[@JReed305]

One of these days I will get a Sharps in 40-65.

[@8023120SL]

Hi from Austrlia. I also use loose seated bullets in my .40-65 Pedersoli Sharps. Mine have a lube cookie over 57 gns Wano 3F. Powder is very slowly drop tube then compressed. Using a 420gn NEI Postell style bullet. Twice I''ve shot MOA at 600 yards with it. I dont blow tube or wipe the barrel between shots. It's a very succesful load.

[@ToadleyBrowne]

Thanks for the reloading tips! I too have gone to the side of not using a bow tube as well. Swiss 1and1/2 Caviar works very well in 45-70 @ 65 grains with 545 grainers. Very low fouling and it does allow for minima cleaning as well.

[@PilotMcbride]

Glad to see you survived the 3Fg loads mate, 😆😆. Those die setups are great, will have to give them a try, great stuff. For wads, I only use 3 light cardboard wads, too cheap to buy the vege wads, 😂😂. Cheers mate, thanks for posting.

[@ToadleyBrowne]

The full length die works as the finest taper crimp on the 40-65 and you can still use the expander. Want to try again but they are calling for snow tonight. Last 3 years it has snowed in mid May. Might do a video with a little 9mm rifle for a change to avoid rattling my noggin too much. Thanks Pilot!

[@PilotMcbride]

Yeah, rattlin’ that melon of yours could loosen some seeds 🤣🤣🤣. I can sacrifice the small expander insert on the universal expander die to the mighty grinder god to make the compressing head, also got the universal decapping die as well, so there’s most bases covered. All I need now is to regain access to my reloading gear 🤣🤣. The missus has been busy stacking her bird keeping rubbish in MY area 😡😡🤬

[@garycorbier9123]

@@ToadleyBrowne Must be that Global Warming the democrats keep talking about.

[@ToadleyBrowne]

@@garycorbier9123 Watch for my next video. There is a segment discussing that very thing and some Garand plinking. Thanks for watching.

[@johnnyholland8765]

First rule of using a blow tube..... NEVER inhale. 40 cals seem to be inherently a little more accurate. At least that has been my experience. Going to try the oring trick too.

[@JPsaysno]

Great tip on the rock chucker . I use an oring under my dies.

[@ToadleyBrowne]

If I had a dollar for every bullet loaded on that press.....I would buy more powder and bullets:). You get that barrel off?

[@JPsaysno]

@@ToadleyBrowne nope. I'm going to have to cut the barrel and maybe a little heat. Broke a 2ft cheater pipe off last attempt.

[@ToadleyBrowne]

@@JPsaysno That doesn't sound like you are having any fun. I hope I never run into one like that. If you were in the area drop it off and I could give it a try. Let me know, just hope the action isn't deformed.

[@luftgewhrschutz7099]

Do you wipe or just use the blow tube? Thanks good video.

[@ToadleyBrowne]

I like to be able to fire 5 shots using blow tube between. I used to really jam the loaded round into the rifling. That caused some rounds to require a lot of force to get the bolt closed. So at the time I was wiping between shots. I now have the bullets jump. Feeding is easier and I have not noticed much of an accuracy difference. Cleaning between each shot can be accurate. For steel I don't see the benefit. Also you can have a lean burning black powder bullet combination where the fouling is half as much. That requires some experimentation. Thank you for watching the video.

[@richardbest6588]

Question for you Mr Toad, can I safely loose seat and lightly crimp bullets like that over smokeless powder? I've found a source of 400gn Snover bullets here in UK... tried a few over 5744, hand seated in unsized brass. They seem to work fine, but just wondered if there are any potential hazards to using this method with smokeless? Thanks for the great videos💥

[@paesano24]

I really enjoyed the video. i read all the comments and responses. I'm new to this and trying to learn as much as I can. The only thing I didn't see and probably missed. Did you measure the powder by volume or did you weigh the powder charge. Also, what is the maximum amount of compression that you would consider safe? Thanks

[@ToadleyBrowne]

Thank you for watching video. Most important is that black powder is not treated the same way smokeless powder is. There are several ways to load black powder. All should have some degree of mild to moderate compression. When I construct a black powder charge the range of powder charges are within a range of 4 grains by weight when I am doing load development. Just for an example that would mean maybe starting at 57 grains and going up to 61 or so and doing 3 shot groups to see what does best. (Half grain increments 57.0-57.5- 58.0 etc.) Once I establish a by weight charge I will meter those charges into an unsized case. Regarding maximum amount of compression. It is not needed to over compress powder but if you are shooting long distances one may benefit from as much velocity as possible. I would consider 1/4 inch compression mild compression while others would think that is a lot. You can get good accuracy with 1/4 inch or so of compression. I have compressed powder charges to the point of swelling the brass and that is too much. Short of swelling the brass is fine if you plan to shoot within a few days. After that the compression will creep and the seating depth changes over time due to an overly compressed load. The easiest way is probably just mild compression 1/8 to 1/4 inch. You will find there are times it is difficult to get 65.0 grains of powder into a new 40-65 case. Also pressures will be lower with 2F. If you are just getting into BP 2f will provide slightly less pressure over 3F. Both are safe for 40-65. If I was using 45-70 then 2-f would be better. These are my ideas. There are many ways to do it. If you change projectiles the lengths are different so one would have to start over and repeat load development because the lengths are different.

[@paesano24]

@@ToadleyBrowne Thank you very much for your timely response. This is most helpful. Cheers, Muleskinner

[@jeffpittman8725]

Very interesting!

[@bradhiserote6057]

That is great idea saves money from buying a taper crimp die! Can you use a neck setting die to use as a tamper crimp die? Great video and great channel and keep up the great work!

[@georgiaboy4410]

Very interesting cartridge. That FFF seemed to shoot good for ya👍🏻

[@ToadleyBrowne]

Thanks! We are getting there.

[@rtrapper4life]

Awesome looks like a blast

[@SteelDinger]

Is the 40/65 a Bottleneck case, and another Question 40/65 or the 40/70 for a first time BPRC.

[@ToadleyBrowne]

Yes it is a tapered case. I would recommend 45-70 for someone who is new to black powder. There are more projectile options and the caliber is more forgiving when you get into bullets weighing over 500 grains for accuracy. Thanks for watching.

[@asherdog9248]

That is exactly how I load mine!

[@ToadleyBrowne]

I will be doing a video on a Browning BP rifle in 40-65 in the next few days. Thanks for watching.

[@paulvanheerden2642]

Thanks for that appreciated. I compress my powder the same way. But it seems to grow if you wait a while. What do you do to prevent it fom happening?

[@ToadleyBrowne]

If shooting them within a short time isn't the plan don't crimp the bullet. Remove bullet by hand and re-compress before shooting. I have a few that crept out as well. It is difficult to deal with as the powder is like the driveway.

[@utube7111961]

What do you use to clean your bore when shooting black powder? As always thx for all of the vids!

[@ToadleyBrowne]

Isopropyl Alcohol first for as many patches it takes until they come out clean. (usually less than 5)and then a brush with hoppes and then oil. Or you can use windex, they have premixed formulas for BP in stores and they work as well. Always follow up with a solvent and oil to avoid surface flash rusting. Unfortunately black powder cleans up best with things that dissolve with water. The choice at the top has worked well for me and it (The rubbing alcohol) can be purchased at any drug store.

[@utube7111961]

@@ToadleyBrowne Thank you!

[@ToadleyBrowne]

@@utube7111961 Just checked out your channel. It's great! I hit notifications and am looking forward to more videos.

[@utube7111961]

I just bought a Pedersoli Rocky Mountain Hawken. Doing all my research on how to shoot and clean it.

[@ToadleyBrowne]

@@utube7111961 Those are very nice looking rifles. No better way to spend the day.

[@jamespollard1670]

I bet that smoke kept the mosquitos away .

[@bradhiserote6057]

I just bought a Browning Hi Wall in 40 65 for Bpcr matches and very new to reloading black powder but been reloading smokeless po for long time, I see you don't compressed your loads. Wondering why?

[@ToadleyBrowne]

At 2:15 you can see where the charge is prior to compression. There is about 1/2 inch of compression to get the bullet to seat to the first driving band. This is engaging the rifling when the cartridge is put in the chamber. I compress all my charges in 45-70, 40-65 and 40-82. If you review the video a few times it might help to understand that you 1-decide the seating depth , 2-make decision on black powder type, 3- create a system that once complete, sets the charge at the depth where the bullet setting on top ends up at the desired seating depth(1). Drop tubes and vibration assist in settling charge before compression. Be careful not to compress to the point the case bulges as it will if you try to put 65 grains of black in a 40-65. (There are guys out there getting that much in but they are using custom reamers extending the throat allowing to seat bullets out farther. Thanks for your comment and watching video.

[@bradhiserote6057]

@@ToadleyBrowne Ok thank you, the person I bought the gun from told me his reloading data and told me 1.5 Swiss but like to try other black powder like what you were using. Thank you for your help and advice as I'm a new to black powder reloading.

[@ToadleyBrowne]

@@bradhiserote6057 Swiss 1.5 is a fine powder that will give great results. I have ran low and am trying other 2F and 3F Goex which seems to give decent results. By weight I use these with a 400 grain bullet: swiss1.5- 60.5 grains. Goex2F- 58.1 grains. Goex 3F- 57.2 grains. For starting out have the bullet seat just off rifling. Compress powder charge so bullet ends up right at that point. If the cases you are using are new they need to be fired once and you will not have to resize after that. Like in the video you can use the full length sizing die to lightly taper crimp. Dont distort bullet. Just enough to hold the bullet down on powder charge. Powder, veggie wad, bullet. Blow tube or clean between shots for good accuracy. This is my way and there are many others but the concepts are similar. Good fun in your future.:)

[@bradhiserote6057]

@@ToadleyBrowne thank you, I'm excited about getting into this bp cartridge shooting & reloading thanks for your input

[@bradhiserote6057]

more questions? What is your recommendation for length of drop tube? I see 24 inches to 36 inches? Aluminum or brass for drop tube? Thank you. This is my next project to build a drop tube. Thank you. I subscribe to your channel

[@danpos1971]

Very cool! Do you find your 40/65 has much less of a kick than a 45/70? Very nice shooting. Thanks for the reloading tips.

[@ToadleyBrowne]

Thanks for watching. There is a slight difference in recoil. Not enough to buy a 40-65 expecting a big difference. With these big bore guns it is more beneficial to get either with a shotgun style stock that is flat in the rear. It does much more for recoil management as there aren't those curved edges to hurt your shoulder so much. I shoot a limbsaver on all of them. If it hurts too much all I have found is it teaches you how to flinch.:)

[@danpos1971]

I actually want a 45-70. I found a beautiful Shilou Sharps but it's chambered in 40-65 and I am concerned it won't be as exciting to shoot as a 45-70 is. I don't want a quiet low recoil rifle. I hate to pass on the Shilou Sharps because of the lack of recoil and bang factor. Thank.

[@ToadleyBrowne]

@@danpos1971 If the price was fair (under 2000.00 US dollars and had good sights) I would buy it. With load development you could do very well. Those Shilos can be very beautiful rifles that speak to you when you have them in your hands. They say, "If not now, when?"

[@danpos1971]

@@ToadleyBrowne Yes its fair. Just concerned the 40-65 will be underwhelming compared to a 45-70.

[@ToadleyBrowne]

@@danpos1971 You are right. It is a tough decision.

[@JoanieKennedy]

:) Good information thanks.

[@kaybar6225]

what did your rig cost, I have a Winchester model 1866 40-65, handed down to me, never fired it. My grandpa was the original owner and he barely used it.

[@ToadleyBrowne]

The model and caliber something is off. Does the gun look like this? www.ancestryguns.com/shop/antique-winchester-model-1886-lever-action-rifle-40-65-wcf-made-in-1889/

[@kaybar6225]

​@@ToadleyBrowne- yes mine barely has any scratches or marks. The same 1866 stamp, same manufactured by stamp, serial #12491 and the same patent dates..

[@ToadleyBrowne]

@@kaybar6225 The image I sent was an 1886. An 1866 is an entirely different gun. The first 1866 was #12476. If you have the 15th original 1866 in good condition you have something of great value. Here is a link to the Cody Museum where Winchester Records can be found. Just would recommend you first have the correct model as some of the numbers are patent numbers. The attachment shows serial numbers. Once again if it is original, they go into the tens of thousands of dollars. Some even more. If you want send me a picture @www.winchesterguns.com/content/dam/winchester-repeating-arms/support/faq/serial-number-reference/Winchester-Manufacture-Dates-by-Year-2012-Scanned-Documents.pdf

[@orangetlr]

Oh that smell....

[@ToadleyBrowne]

I think it cures Covid and just gives you a bad cough. The wind was blowing right at me for about 50 rounds. Cough, Cough....