40K - ANGRON & THE BUTCHERS NAILS | Warhammer 40,000 History / Loregear

[@Luetin09]

Let the Galaxy and the Scambots BURN - been a while since the last Loregear - got more new stuff on the way soon. Working on Part 2 of the Apocalypse stuff as well. If you enjoyed as always help me out - drop a LIKE - tell me your thoughts on Angron? Could he have been a good son if he wasnt so horribly broken before the Emperor found him?

[@reigningmonarch]

I've wanted to learn more about this topic! Thank you for the vid! I was completely shocked to see you upload again so soon and it made me taking an L on my math quiz much better!

[@InfamousUber]

PURGE THE SCAMBOTS BROTHERS

[@bigfil1981]

I love the question that you posed, of what could Angron have achieved had he not been under such distress.

[@distilledfour25]

(Posting for a second time on a different video hoping to get answer from someone) So I'm a bit confused as to why/how malcadors soul was burned up powering the golden throne but the emperors isnt? Is it because the psychers they scarifice everday? And if thats the case why didnt they just prepare a back log of psychers while the throne was being built? And is malcador a perceptual? From what weve been told about the golden throne they knew that they would have to do sacrifices. Just makes me wonder if its just a plot hole or maybe malcador finding a way to escape with out the eternal soul torturing if he isnt a perpetual. A little dark i know. But I keep getting conflicting answers where ever i look for information about malcador being a perpetual or not.

[@Luetin09]

@@distilledfour25 It simply shows how powerful the Emperor is comparative to all others. Hes insanely powerful a psyker, but theres always possibilities of other things going on that we may never understand.

[@DocLefty1]

And thus, fate looked upon Angron and said: “Fuck that guy.”

[@GusMortis]

The fate weaver?🤔

[@utes5532]

"lol, lmao." -Tzeentch, probably

[@obfuscated3090]

"Fate" being the Emperor.

[@windblownleaf6450]

@@obfuscated3090 have to agree. didnt rescure his buds. took one look at the butchers nails and gave up. let him fuck up his own legions with the same process. really does seem like he simply couldnt be assed

[@coastyfish1]

Working through the solar war books and every part with Kharn makes me so sad. Like part of him is fighting to be the old space marine but he’s constantly being overridden by the butcher’s nails

[@leachofsouls]

Kharn is Both Tragic and in his own Chaosy way an absolute badass. He is both A mindless psychopath and a masterful warrior.

[@ElonTusks]

I can’t believe it was garro that got him smashed of the land speeder

[@liannadrake6265]

Im on those atm currently on mortis

[@alexreiz6128]

Same. Recently read "Warhawk" and must say small part involving Kharn was masterstroke. Small yet perfect addition to already one of best characters in Warhammer.

[@jellydamgood]

You gotta understand why he chose to follow Angron's orders. All he and his brothers want is to grow closer to their genefather. And that is the true tragedy of the world eaters.

[@adaeptzulander2928]

What made me sympathetic (a bit) to Angron, is that before the Heresy, he is the only primarch who called out that the Emperor was building a totalitarian slave state. He refuse to pretend that he loved his father or that what he was ordered to do was bringing "enlightenment" to far flung cultures.

[@briancates3576]

That quote of his from Betrayer is chilling...and accurate

[@dustyboi8975]

Angron honestly had some pretty based takes on authoritarianism in Betrayer. It’s sadder when you read his primarch novel and learn that his power as a primarch was actually healing too. He was intended by the emperor to be the exact opposite of what he became

[@Schwarzvogel1]

@@dustyboi8975 My take on Angron is that without the Nails, he would have been _the "first Heretic"_ the first one to rebel against the Emperor. Angron without the Nails would have started an uprising against Big E, and probably would have garnered plenty of followers, because his cause was just. In _Betrayer_, Angron states that without the Nails, he would not only be a "just, man, a righteous man" like Leman Russ, but that'd he would "ascend the steps of our father's palace and take the slaving bastard's head." The Emperor wasn't looking for a freedom fighter or a champion of the oppressed, which is what Angron originally was. Big E made his primarchs to be weapons, and with Angron, he needed an Eviscerator, not a powered rapier. Angron with the Nails was a bloody-minded butcher untroubled by compunctions of conscience, morality, or honour. He and his Legion were what the Emperor needed if Big E decided that he needed to slaughter an entire civilisation. I also believe the Emperor *could* have removed the Butcher's Nails, despite what Arkham Land remembered the Emperor saying. The Mechanicum even at that time had the technology to conduct full brain transplants and grow human brains in a vat, ffs. By M40, Arrian Zorzi, a former World Eaters apothecary and a member of Fabius Bile's consortium, had rigged up a chemical nullifier that allowed him to basically switch his own Nails on and off at will (or at least postpone their bite a bit like how you can postpone annoying Windows updates). If they really wanted to, the Imperium could have removed Angron's Nails and put him into a Primarch-sized dreadnought that would provide him with the life support functions he'd need with the Nails removed. But the Emperor didn't, because Angron with the Nails was more convenient for his plans than the empathetic freedom fighter which Angron originally was.

[@alganhar1]

Yah, called out the Emperor for being totalitarian and forced his marines to subject themselves to the nails. You know what that is called? Where I am from it is called Hypocrisy. The only Traitor Primarch who did not have a choice was Magnus. The rest CHOSE their route, with Magnus it was forced on him. Nails or no, Angron COULD have resisted them, he was a Primarch for fucks sake, not a weak willed base human. He chose not to.

[@adaeptzulander2928]

@@alganhar1 Well, when your brain has been scrambled by irreversible alien tech to the point where your neural pathways are rewritten, and part of your brain and spine have been replaced, I don't think he ever really had a choice. Chaos really did a number on him, more so than the other primarchs.

[@geodixohard1616]

The World Eaters didn't fall to Khorne. It was more of a small hop downwards.

[@heathenpride7931]

At least they still had to go a little downward, unlike the Night Lords. They stayed right where they are.

[@PrivacyTermsCopyriii]

@@heathenpride7931 they may have even moved up...

[@relishcakes4525]

Probably gave it an elbow drop…

[@fuchsmichael93]

Khorne at the Start of the Heresy: Yep, that Chapter over there, that´s my Boys.

[@chimchu3232]

Seriously lol. Even before the heresy, the traitor legions were concerned angron was too brutal

[@MsPuffykinz]

I always imagined the butchers nails as being something originally built to quell chronic pain. I don’t know why but that always made sense to me.

[@theotherccount4481]

A medical device made to help with the managmwnt of pain re-worked as a mental torture device that is used to amplify anger to inflict harm unto others? Wonderfully grimdark and a tragedy befitting the grimdark future of the 41st millennium.

[@snakeyman5560]

I liked the theory that they were used by Nuceria during the war against the Men of Iron to mass transform the civilians into an fearless mass of raging warriors.

[@cavareenvius7886]

My Theory is that they are made for hard to control livestock like Groks and had the opposite effect to what they do now.

[@NowioFel]

So basically exactly what Elon is tinkering on right now?

[@seekingabsolution1907]

@@NowioFel ugh, do not bring up that monster and his horrific animal cruelty.

[@TheGammabomb06]

The craziest part is that Angron was meant to embody the Emperors empathy, before he had unwanted brain reconstruction. Makes me wonder what legacy he would have left if he landed on....i dont know...mccrage or nocturne, instead of nuceria

[@georgekostaras]

Angron is proof that even the strongest men can only choose from the paths before them. in a weird way he's a refutation of the great man of history idea. Despite being the most powerful being on his planet, he never had a chance.

[@lowkeyarki7091]

Weirdly enough angron landing on Nuceria is not the damning part, but the eldars that attacked him the moment he crawled out cause they foresaw him being a powerful enemy in the future making it possible for the slavers to capture him.

[@sggcaboose1]

"You my son shall represent my empathy for all humanity and so I shall name you angry" - The emperor of mankind probably

[@ilcrawfo]

His story is very grim dark.

[@trevordavis6830]

Honestly I don’t think the butcher nails was what doomed him to the path of anger. It definitely helped, but I think the true death nail(I couldn’t resist) to Antron’s empathy was the Emperor forcing him to watch his fellow slaves get slaughtered without being able to help.

[@darkscholar625]

My heart tears for Angron. The man was never even given a chance to be good. If ever there was a victim of circumstance, itd be Angron.

[@alganhar1]

So he forced his entire Legion to bear the nails... yeah, real good guy. Don't forget that he literally FORCED his Legion to take the Nails. Karn was just the first one to SURVIVE the process..... If he was so holy, if he cared that much, he would have not forced his Legion to bear the nails. He did. Which makes him a hypocritical piece of garbage in my mind.

[@darkscholar625]

@@alganhar1 How much of that was him, and how much of that was the nails? The man had literal chunks ripped out of his brain. He’s not the man he’s supposed to be. His judgment is compromised by trauma and barbaric augmentation. He barely has the capacity to speak at all. It literally pains him to think. I’m not much of an apologist for most people. But I cannot help but feel that he is not completely responsible for the choices he made. Every significant choice in his life was made for him. And what he did is not justified, but it’s understandable. Anybody would be bitter and wrathful to the universe that treated them that way.

[@thedemonhater7748]

Angron is such a thorough deconstruction of the idea that people are “born good or bad.” People can definitely have violent or empathetic tendencies, but what matters is which of those tendencies your environment nurtures or not.

[@darkscholar625]

@@thedemonhater7748 Oh I got a prime example of that tonight. I just had the cops called on me for no reason. Just minding my business. Now I’m moving out. Can’t live around two faced people

[@BluJean6692]

I'm obsessed with the detail that parts of his brain were REMOVED, it's likely that those priceless pieces of genecraft were just discarded but it's crazy to think that they may still be out there; preserved by someone who saw their value as specimens...

[@rickconnolly5006]

Surprised that Big E didn't subject the rulers of the world to some unspeakable horrible end for desecrating a Primarch's brain. Like "Send in the 8th" levels of unspeakable...

[@ferrumchnop6617]

Perfect hook for a ttrpg campaign 😉

[@heathmcrigsby]

But who will end up with it? Cawl or Bile?

[@rickconnolly5006]

@@heathmcrigsby Bile for sure

[@GusMortis]

Imagine if the parts where put back.

[@Mike5Brown]

I was not expecting a new video this soon, but I’m very happy to have it. Especially on Angron, his story is one of my “favorites”.

[@Mike5Brown]

Wow interesting bit about The Terminal Man, I’m 100% convinced that it is the inspiration for Angron, looks like it is available for rent on quite a few services.

[@geodixohard1616]

MY favorite primarch! Been a World Eaters Fan boi since I learned about this hobby lol

[@monkeyskitz]

I always think angrons tale is so tragic. If he had landed on another planet, or if the emperor had got to him before the nails were implanted, he may never have turned traitor.

[@andrewpandrew7786]

I’m not sure. On one hand he was the embodiment of the emperor’s empathy and was most likely a very kind man pre nails. On the other he hated tyrants to his core, nails or no nails…and the emperor (whether for the betterment of humanity or not) was most certainly a tyrant. The worst of all.

[@jman8725]

@@andrewpandrew7786 not to mention he forced him to leave his fellow slaves to die fighting while he was made to go with the emperor

[@drkittyphd6205]

He actually landed on the perfect planet for shaping him as an individual. It was the eldar's interference that damned him, as the aftermath of their battle was what convinced the tyrants to make him a gladiator in the first place. Angron could have been adopted by a noble or simple peasant family, and grown to be similar to his brothers Corus and Mortarion, a liberator with a strong hatred for tyrants and slavery

[@castor3020]

@@andrewpandrew7786 Tyrant to whom is the question, to Angron sure but someone that agreed with him; no.

[@bardic_bumblebee]

If he'd landed on a different planet, sure I could imagine a loyalist angron. But the emperor just getting to him earlier? No way. The imperium would look and feel way too much like his homeworlds aristocracy, nails or not. I think he'd still have turned traitor - probably a more well put together, tactical, empathetic force than he ended up as, but still a traitor

[@testinghydra5652]

One of the reasons that the nails are so much more damaging to Angron than most others is often overlooked. The nails were made for humans, a primarch is not your typical human. So the implantation was extremely sloppy, like a square peg to a round hole.

[@draad3112]

"Mankind's appetite to inflict inhumanity upon itself," that's a good one Luetin, bravo.

[@TheRockofEasyCo]

Angron definitely feels like a victim, but not just of his masters, but I think also of the Emperor, I think he could've helped him more.

[@azuth8955]

I don't think he cared to. His primarch power was empathetic, he could feel and take people's pain. I think that means he was never meant to be one of the specialist warriors like the lion or the Vulcan, he was supposed to be a mental/emotional leader more like Lorgar as an orator or Guilliman as an organizer. By the time Big E got there the nails had ruined Anggron's primarch special sauce and I don't think the emperor had much use for him. He was just a crappier version of Russ with even more control issues.

[@TresBS1]

To an extent, yes, but if you look at it long term, I can kind of see why he didn't. There was nothing that could done. There was no way to help and just writing Angron off would have destroyed the World Eater's morale, which was at the breaking point. Stuck between a rock and hard place. So, Emps went full damage control and just used Angron as the bloody weapon he'd been forged into. Angron was always going to degenerate and had the Great Crusade succeeded, he'd never fit into it. Why waste effort on a battle that couldn't be won? Why not get the most use that you can? Emps was working on a very strict schedule and needed to keep things moving for his greater plans. It was noted by Malcador to the Khan that they were running out of time and needed to conquer the galaxy as quickly as possible...and that was like 34 years before Angron was rediscovered and about 100 years into the Great Crusade. So, why devote resources to something that isn't really going to payoff? Angron was damaged beyond repair in the Emperor's eyes and he had many, many other things that he needed to oversee and get done for the Crusade to succeed. It's cold and callous but when you compare the life of one who's all but doomed to the entire fate of humanity that's still in the air...is it even a choice??

[@Minotaur-ey2lg]

“I’m the master of mankind. Look upon my genecraft and despair!” “Oh Master of Mankind, can you remove these brain implants and fix your broken son?” “Nah, that’s beyond me.” The more I learn about 40k, the more I realize Big E is just an apathetic idiot.

[@Jon-pw2ik]

More hugs for sure

[@ohamatchhams]

@@Minotaur-ey2lg Yeah, he could fix machineries of Mechanicum much to his dismay towards Religion in his Empire, to the point of making the entirety of techno-religious planet that is Mars to have treaties that skyrocketed his visions to unified humanity Yet somehow doesn't want to uses his definitely-not-overpowered abilities to miraculously fixes Angron, somehow TTS series with a voxcast about top favourite Primarchs is much more sensible than whatever the Black Library books bloody concocted about Emperor relationships with Angron and The World Eaters from the start, makes me somehow sadder with the fact that TTS is on current indefinite Hiatus at this point

[@lapislazuli5035]

Angron reminds me of Cujo. Both were big loveable teddy bears before their brains were hijacked by something beyond their control that turned them into monsters.

[@Jaytwisty23]

I didn't know a damn thing about Warhammer till I randomly came across a luetin video then I was hooked! Now I'm absolutely in love with the dark and grim universe of 40k! Can't wait for more content!

[@Dr-Froman]

Grim dark*

[@XimperialXx]

@@Dr-Froman literally the same idea

[@joeh5538]

@@XimperialXx Warmallet 4x10,000

[@XimperialXx]

@@joeh5538 facts

[@orygungeeksolitude1380]

Who's your favorite faction? Which unit? Always love to hear what brings people in specifically!

[@dic_tater376]

to me Angron was the most important to fall to chaos because of his empath powers that could have saved his brothers from their emotional problems and walked them back from the edge

[@liquidlilith1169]

and he was also the first primarch deamon prince

[@CousinJesse1]

Angron had endless potential. Could have been on par with Jaghatai and Vulkan had it not been for the butchers nails and a life of slavery.

[@PluvioZA]

You've caught me as I settled into bed... Well damn, time for the best kind of bed time story - wh40k lore

[@matthewgraham2283]

There would be a sort of sick irony if the nails where initially meant to prevent pain, seeing as Angrons primarch ability was to take others pain before he was implanted with the nails

[@DrEhrfurchtgebietend]

Suggested Videos: -The scattering of the primarchs -the awakening of the necrons -how do orcs shape reality? -Malcador the Sigillite

[@PeteToken]

Looking forward to this one, appreciate the upload as always! I've always felt the most sorry for Angron out of all the primachs.

[@josephbeaulieu4093]

The Emperor failed him in every single way possible.🤔

[@myself2noone]

I feel more sorry for the people he killed.

[@SwedetasticGames]

The Butcher's Nails and Angron are some of the most grimdark lore in 40k. I love it.

[@Toto-95]

My favorite tragic and underrated Primarch 💘 *Don't change my mind*

[@bappo2693]

Interesting fact: after all these years listening to your videos, my English has levelled up significantly. I'm achieveing verbal complexity of my native tongue, which is extremely beneficial in life as I'm a forever migrant. Thank you, I love you.

[@mediocrestreams3284]

Everytime I hear his story, I just think about what a bad deal angron got, his life is so tragic

[@tunguskalumberjack9987]

I love that you used a closeup of Dr.Channard poking around in a patient’s brain- I always hear in my head him saying, “The mind is a labyrinth”. The band Ministry used it as a sample in one of their songs from the album “The Mind Is A Terrible Thing To Taste”. Great video, as always!

[@Luetin09]

I need to do something about Hellraiser

[@tunguskalumberjack9987]

@@Luetin09 I would be so into that! (Just as soon as you’ve covered everything in 40K, right? 😆)

[@shrektheeloquentork1924]

Learning of a new Luetin vid (esp. Loregear) must be what its like hearing an litany blaring exorcist in the middle of battling daemons

[@ernstbergerbrent]

I love the use of the image of killbots from futurama when talking about the men of iron.

[@mprojekt72]

I had always seen the Butcher's Nails as being inspired by both Michael Crichton's "Terminal Man" as you suggest, and also by Larry Niven's wireheads and their drouds, a subculture of human pleasure addicts in Known Space who elected to have fine silver wires implanted into their brains and gathered together in a plug on the back of their head. These wireheads could self-administer jolts of joy, satisfaction, and ecstasy using a controller called a droud which connected to the plug and be removed as desired. There was even a sort of wireless droud, called a tasp, that could be used to remotely give people a hit of happiness.

[@Luetin09]

Great comment :D appreciated.

[@Jon-pw2ik]

Sooo.....Hellraiser in space

[@chrislyne377]

Angron's treatment by the Emperor has always annoyed me. It's so out of character for Big E to be so completely inept at managing their relationship. It's always felt like poor storytelling to me

[@lapislazuli5035]

Some speculate that part of the Emperor's deal with the Chaos Gods was that some of the Primarchs needed to fall to Chaos, and Angron was one of the Primarchs thrown under the bus.

[@kylek1119]

Lends credence to the idea that Big E knew some of his sons would betray him and attempted to manipulate fate by mistreating those like Angron and Curze that he viewed as a lost cause while lifting up those like Guilliman and Dorn who he wished to keep. Of course, there were those traitors like Horus and Fulgrim who took the Emperor completely by surprise, and those like Khan who surprised him by remaining loyal.

[@cnut7383]

Also he mightve known that angron was beyond repair and gave up on him

[@johnlucas2838]

@@lapislazuli5035 I bet Angron before the nails was going to be one he kept but when he found out about the Nails and what it did to him, the Emperor chose to keep someone else instead.

[@jamesbaurus5928]

This is completely in line with the Emperor's actions throughout his life. Everything is a means to an end, including his "sons." Despite his supposed future vision, he was terrible at actually seeing out this future in any reasonable way.

[@jackal6505]

You were already one of the best 40k lore speakers, but the Deep Space 9 call back❤️..... You're winning hearts and minds over here. Please keep up the amazing content Luetin.

[@stephenbernard3003]

My dopamine system can only achieve happiness when Luetin releases a new awesome 40k video…

[@lonelystrategos]

The Loremaster's Nails.

[@bigalhamilton]

Odo: You'd shoot a man in the back? Garak: Well, it's the safest way, isn't it?

[@FloatOn77]

Ah, I love when Luetin bakes us up a fresh new batch of heresy.

[@jakehinton732]

"and then as Luetin looked out his window, he overheard a faint order through the Vox ". One word, that's all it took, he knew his Heresy had finally caught up with him, and as he glanced towards the sun setting for the last time he remembered how beautiful it really was as the final transmission repeated it's final word. ... "EXTERMINATUS!!!"

[@charlottegerken4477]

Nice, gotta love a reference to both my favorite author and my favorite Star Trek show! Way to go Luetin, excellent choices to help illustrate your point!

[@errantvice7335]

Oh this is wonderful! Just had a friend ask me about Ollanius Pius and he took an interest in 40K, specifically khorn stuff, well timed indeed LT!

[@jakehinton732]

The other thing about angron is no matter if he were allowed to stay behind and fight with his gladiator family even if they would have won it would not change his downfall , from the moment the butcher's nails were implanted his fate was sealed the emperor knew this, but is it not our human nature to stand in the face of overwhelming odds and not back down, this story of 40k is an epic, told across the expanse of time and the one thing that always stands out is the most undeniable aspect of our existence, we do not give up and we do not just stand by idle waiting to be confined to the halls of extinction like so many before us. The emperor knew this and he knew angron was lost before he was ever found, but he had to at least try.

[@Jylakir]

I think it is far fetched to say, Big E did know about the nails when he arrived on the planet. He already fucked up by getting Angron of the planet and not just send some dudes to the ground to help him out as "Father and Son". Maybe Angron would even had his grudge with this solution but at least his dudes would be still around and could be an anchor for him. But I think this would never happend. Angron needed to be this manice of violance because GW needed that character ..

[@leonidasvelasquez7547]

Ah yes, holy blessing in form of warhammer40k lore videos.

[@barraki6706]

Rejoice! Lutein has finally made a video dedicated to one of the Primarchs!

[@DaniMol]

One small correction due to new lore that Luetin couldn't have known at the time, but the Butcher's nails don't grant pleasure when killing, but rather they grant a reprieve from the constant pain. I.e, that's why Angron felt peace while killing. It wasn't that he felt joy in slaughter, no, never that, not even after his ascension. It turned Angron and the World Eaters into junkies. Killing to get their next hit, their next moment of peace, and it lasts only enough for them to realise what they have lost. It doesn't even give them a chance to sob before the pain and the blind desperation to kill comes again. And it only ever gets worse, and like addicts, they will sacrifice everything and everyone for their next hit. They are the worst kind of slaves, not ones that strive for rewards, but ones that do it to get away from pain. Even the chained deckhands aboard Imperial ships get extra rations or lo-sticks when they perform their duties above and beyond, or an extra hour of rest. Angron gets nothing. Khorne has him now, and his torment is, will be, and has always been eternal.

[@ITasteBleachInMyHead]

This

[@troelsknudsen253]

Luetin: the curious excavator of depth, and parallels, in storylines I'd never uncover myself.

[@commandante6709]

Some of the best content on KZbin for years, and still going. What a legend! Luetin deserves some recognition from GW, in my opinion.

[@ethanr7378]

Luetin09 thank you for this video your lore videos got me into the hobby and World Eaters from 30k timeline are my favorite faction thank you again more please.

[@clintoncoey9840]

Another amazing lore master video, the Emperor be praised!

[@azkrouzreimertz9784]

Lets gooo!! I just started listening through all the horus herasy books and its so freaking good! I am truly greatful for you and your content, inspiring me to go deeper into the world of 40k

[@jdbeauchamp2919]

It is a good day when the lore master uploads a new video

[@Jacob_12th]

Oh hell yes! This was a VERY welcome surprise when I opened KZbin - thank you my dude!

[@Dead2Island]

Absolute pleasure to watch and listen to as always!

[@greyknighthyuga4946]

Really nothing better than opening the KZbin app after a long day just to find a new Leutin09 upload at the top of the recommended list

[@radjenovic6843]

I always love the urban myth that angron was named after a bouncer in Nottingham known as Angry Ron.

[@laundrymatt644]

Just saw the PKA clip with Kyle, AKA FPS Russia, talking about how your videos were too disturbing! Keep up the good work Aleutian!

[@Krylov223]

Great comparison to two of my favorites, Michael Crichton and Deep Space Nine! My first thought was the episode where an alien race programs convicts' minds with the memories of being in prison, so people wake up the next day as a hardened criminal.

[@SheedRanko777]

I really enjoyed this one, thanks for everything you do for the community Luetin

[@jacksonc3320]

I absolutely love the lore behind the World Eaters, could we get a video on Kharn at some point? Thanks for making such great videos Luetin :)

[@LeRoiDuFresne]

Seriously though, what would Angron have been like without the nails? Would the 12th have been like the war hounds? Different? Idk. But it’s fascinates me without end. Buuuuut, my true loyalties are clad in Midnight: AVE DOMINUS NOX! Luetin pls do something NL related 🥺 Ps. 🐍🐍🐍

[@jakehinton732]

Seems to me like the nails might have been a tool to reform prisoners maybe large penal colonies and maybe it was created by the men of iron to implant into humans to subjugate them as some fucked up twist of fate. The anger aspect is maybe just scratching the surface of what it actually is like looking at only one side of a messed up Rubik's cube you don't know what you're looking at until you completely solve the puzzle

[@a.gravemistake3061]

Weird how it's the World Eaters and not the Emperor's Children who are famous for getting nailed

[@harisjaved1379]

Thanks again my dude! Love your lore videos!

[@sergiocrowe9848]

Yessss, I was literally just wondering about this topic yesterday. Fortunate timing! Cheers mate

[@lieutenantartus]

Hey Luetin did you ever make the more in depth video of dreadnoughts you said you would? I would love to hear it. They are some of the most awesome and iconic units of 40k.

[@BM-is5ei]

And the saddest 😭

[@jeandiekreef85]

Great video Luetin. I was just reading about the Butcher's nails, and Angron, the other day. But as always, it is much more entertaining to watch your videos.

[@spiritbomber9359]

I honestly think angron is one of the most tragic of the primarchs, he could have easily been one of the loyalists without these horrifying devices. The nails are one of the most senselessly cruel creations of humanity, it just breaks my heart.

[@foreverfornever1124]

Reading extensive lore on Angron has made a full 360 of my opinions of him. His story is easily the saddest of the Primarchs. I would have loved to see the primarch he was meant to be

[@julien7386]

You mean a full 180° ?

[@danyael777]

Some of the best quotes from the book series are from Angron. To me he had the clearest sight on the Emperor, the crusades and the Imperium as a whole. I think it weren't the Butchers Nails but the glaring ignorance of the Emperor that let Angron fall to chaos eventually. IIRC the Tourette syndrome is being treated these days with a device that is a pacemaker for the brain. It doesn't trigger any emotions though. So one hasn't to look to SciFi to find something that resembles a possible past appliance for the Butchers Nails.

[@wessthemess117]

Fall is such a beautiful time, that's when Lutein likes to bless us

[@wessthemess117]

Errr

[@andrehanekom5665]

Fantastic I’m glad you are making new vids , love your absolutely deep detailed long videos analysis of your videos

[@gmtzholmes]

thanks man for the time and effort you put to give your great content. all hail the loremaster Leutin09!

[@lexguttman]

"...or maybe not." Great video as always Luetin. Thank you for sharing.

[@proymastergaming]

So happy to see a video as it appears.

[@venerablebrothergoriate5844]

“Angron.” “Fucker’s MAD.” -Bricky

[@nicsolo89]

Another great video, Luetin! Keep up the awesome work mate!

[@callenbray8703]

Fascinating storytelling as always Luetin

[@northernnaysayer1240]

Ok, so, hear me out here. I know you don’t like using implicit evidence but in his book Angron is implied to be a psychic empath. Now, this explains why the Nails messed him up worse than you would expect, if he was psychically able to feel only pain and anger due to the rest of his brain either being cut out or destroyed by the nails then in essence his anger is being supercharged by psychically drawing on everyone else’s anger and pain, especially when in battle, but, also when he was trying to separate himself from the rest of the legion and was slowly murdering every captain until Kharn. I know this might all seem obvious, but if you think about it, Big E had a reason for wanting specifically an empath(I suspect to use as an early warning for chaos traitors), but he created a legion called the War Hounds that used horrifically brutal tactics, and was going to have an Empath lead them.... which would have led to Angry Ronald turning out more or less the same.... at least on the battlefield... Also, while I’m at it, why on earth did big E name 3 of his Legions after canines? And does this actually imply the Canis Helix was used in the Luna Wolves and War Hounds? Because if it doesn’t, then that’s some super crap plot holing right there, I know nothing is specified but why use the helix in one legion named after Wolves and not the rest...

[@alganhar1]

If he was a psychic empath, and he was given the 12th?? What the hell would have happened if he did not have the nails? A psychic empath warrior? What idiot thought of that as a concept? Essentially it was shitty writing. Not saying soldiers cannot be empathic, but Psychically Empathic? Sorry, that was suggested by someone who has no fucking idea how the human brain would deal with that kind of thing. Angron would have been catatonic if he was that empathic, even with the nails. The only Traitor Primarch who was forced into what he became was Magnus. All the others had a choice.

[@Schwarzvogel1]

@@alganhar1 Primarchs don't have human brains. They may look human, but they aren't human in the same sense as your average man or woman. Also, Angron did *not* have a choice. The Emperor dragged him from Nuceria via teleportation when Angron wanted to stay and die with his true brothers and sisters. Angron didn't have a choice either to become a daemon prince--Lorgar forced it upon him to "save" his life. Angron was a slave his entire life. First to the high-riders of Nuceria, then to the pain machine grafted into his head, then to the Emperor's will, then to Khorne. The only freedom Angron could have experienced would have been the freedom of death, but thanks to Lorgar's manipulations, even that freedom is denied to him, since as a daemon prince, Angron can *never* die permanently. Read _Saturnine_ in the Siege of Terra series to get a better understanding of Angron's psychology after he was "elevated" into daemonhood.

[@jrmatthee111]

My favorite youtuber right here! I always yell something like "FUCK YEAH!" or "WOOOOOH!" when this dude posts new content.

[@SurelyYewJest]

Garek is definitely an ST character with a past that would have fit in with 40k.

[@arbeione]

I recently read Slave of Nuceria. It’s now my favourite Primarch novel. You really understand more about Angron’s true nature. It has to be one of the saddest Primarch stories and one of the Emperors biggest mistakes in how he handled the situation. Angron has always been portrayed as a mindless brute, which after the implantation of the Butchers nails is mostly true, but seeing what he was like before, really made me understand his true character. He is a man of respect and honour. The irony for me, is that if he hadn’t succumbed to the Butchers Nails and the Emperor handled the situation differently, Angron would of been one of the most loyal Primarchs to the imperium. If you haven’t read slave of Nuceria yet, I really recommend it.

[@Gormathius]

22:39 I'm the same way. There's soooo much information to keep track of to begin with, I have neither the time nor patience to worry about what order it comes in so long as the continuity doesn't get distorted.

[@danieljacob9717]

I really like the points you made when talking about the Real Horror of the nails. It got me thinking on how to make the discovery of an stc more interesting as I am not big fan of it being a big ‘I win’ button for the imperium. However, when you think about the humans of the modern timeline and those of the golden age were two very different people. To have created such advanced technology and weaponry without turning it upon themselves either out of greed or some other reason seems to suggest a level of responsibility and farsightedness that sadly is absent in the imperium. If written correctly the discovery of an intact stc could make an interesting plot point in the overall story of warhammer 40k.

[@georgem6651]

There's just something about the way you tell these stories that make them so compelling 👍 Luetin Necropolis part 2 when?? 😅

[@ericcloud1023]

For the algorithm! And your amazing content deserves as much of a boost as possible

[@ianspearing7805]

My favorite Angron moment or moments is during the battle for Terra during the HH. He first goes nuts on his own ship and is locked down in the lower levels so he can busy himself with the people who live down in the lower levels. Then the captain of his ship plus the first captain (I think) make a deal with another ship and manage to put Angron in a primarch jail. He's then dumped onto Terra where he comes down like a meteor and starts killing everyone. The crazy part is he's dumped out of the "jail" ship into space and decides to just fall onto Terra. Absolutely wild

[@jez.mont-vaxe5297]

Ah excellent timing, this supplement’s nicely my listening to Echoes of Eternity.

[@panicpills1777]

Love your videos, they really make the setting feel alive

[@ricorosendo9938]

Abuse begets abuse. Angron inflicted his own suffering on his legion because it was all he knew. Hits home kinda hard.

[@abucket14]

It's so ironic that i just finished reading Betrayer and then you uploaded this, watching it now because i didn't want to dive into this 2 seconds after i finished a whole book.

[@reaper66679]

Since listening to the audio books I have come across the butchers nails many times glad to know what they really are now. Thanks Luetin

[@Warlordalexi]

Nice reference to Garak, there. Easily one of my favourite DS:9 characters, and Star Trek in general.

[@circle7studios]

I've always wondered if Angron was intended originally to be the very opposite of what he became...was supposed to be the Primarch healer and statesman.

[@Jylakir]

Maybe he was setup to be the conscience of the crusade. The one who keeps everyone back on track when they get lost in their pride or being to zealous and causing to much damage to archive the goal of the crusade.

[@v10l3t40]

I've come up with a headcanon theory that is that the Butchers Nails work similarly in the way of the Harlequins Kiss where whatever got removed from the brain is replaced with pain inducing filaments (Only these don't melt your insides) even all the way down through the spinal cortex

[@o.w.n.1327]

Angron was unique among Primarchs. For he was the only Primarch his legion though of rebelling againts before the heresy.

[@Schwarzvogel1]

Not exactly. Sanguinius was the only Primarch who asked the Emperor "and what if I say no?" when the Emperor asked him to rejoin his legion. Konrad Curze suffered from prophetic nightmares of the Horus Heresy decades before Horus even landed on Davin. He tried confiding in Fulgrim, but the Palatine Phoenix basically told poor, crazy Konrad that he was barking mad and didn't take him seriously. Lorgar was *the first Heretic*. He was the first to turn against the Emperor and worship Chaos... and Erebus was the one who orchestrated the events to bring Horus to the Ruinous Powers. It's possible that Erebus and Horus also engineered the rebellion on Olympia that led to Perturabo turning against the Imperium. So Angron isn't unique for contemplating rebellion before the Horus Heresy. He was unique in the tragic sense that he was the *only* Primarch to not conquer the planet he landed on. And whilst all the other Primarchs have unique, fearsome honorifics like the Angel, the Hydra, the Gorgon, the Lord of Drakes, the Man of Stone, Angron's only honorifics are "the Red Angel" (a cheap copy of Sanguinius' title, considering that the World Eaters didn't start wearing red until _after_ the Horus Heresy) and "Slave of Nuceria."

[@o.w.n.1327]

@@Schwarzvogel1 you clearly did not understood what I meant and I am sorry for my poor choice of words but I meant to say that: Legion itself thought to rebel againts their own primarch.

[@rogerbrownreacts8528]

Emotion suppression could combat a psycher that could control or influence emotions. A emotionless leader would be totally fair in judgement. It could have been a control mechanism to employ captured enemy troops. I could see 3 quick exploitation’s of that type of technology.

[@eldoriath1]

Way I see it they could also been developed to basically have the opposite effect, that feelings of anger causes pain and other feelings are neutral and some are encouraged, like empathy. A tool to make dangerous people less dangerous and without the need for prisons and allowing the person to live a productive and full life but with decreased risk of becoming a danger to others. Some version of the device being made for good would thematically fit with Angron being an empath and healer in original intent, but corrupted by a device that in itself was a corrupted tool that originally was meant for healing/pacifying.

[@Shogun_Masta]

Always top tier, thanks for ur work!

[@bigfil1981]

Perfect release time! I was just hunting for one of your vids I might have not listened to yet 👍💕

[@ourcommonancestry6025]

When are you going to cover the real genius and greatest of Astartes, Fabius Bile? Not just a snipet, but the whole thing?

[@dylankkboss]

I just started Betrayer so imagine my surprise when I saw this video title on my fyp. Great video!!

[@darwinfowler8877]

Ah, Angronius. You had so much potential yet you suffered the worse of faits. I hope some day GW explores alternate universes so you have the chance to shine as the primarch you were meant to be.

[@tomasmisek5598]

Rather unlikely, unfortunately. Best we have is fanfiction

[@67P-CG]

What a treat this is