#487

[@massgeneral9873]

Just in relation to the 'early 90s pessimism" covered at the beginning of the conversation -- we were over a decade into the HIV/AIDS crisis and the diminishing returns of treatments such as AZT/the distance from anything resembling a "cure," were not leading any of the experts to predict 1996 (the cocktail, combination therapy) would arrive so soon.

[@ericmetts2289]

It's fascinating how Francis Fukuyama's "The End of History" took on a life of its own throughout the years in very pernicious and pollyanish ways that seriously diverged from the nuances and central thesis of his argument.

[@canadianroots7681]

My experience of the 90s as a young adult included my high school graduation (91), return to Canada (93), my US green card (94), and college graduation (2000). With that said, here's a few of my observations... Feeling of optimism as the Berlin Wall came down and we saw the dissolution of the Soviet Union. And looking back, we then forgot about many of those countries, particularly Russia. And look where we are today as a result. INS showed up at our door to deport my sister (a masters student) in a city filled with illegal immigrants (El Paso). During Operation Hold the Line, media tried to portray it as unpopular but it actually had a high level of support, particularly by those south of I-10 who saw this as addressing some of their crime issues. And today, we still have a broken immigration system. Clinton's impeachment was a big deal. Of course now every president gets impeached; it's SOP now. I guess we're moving on to criminal prosecutions now. Auto unions made and got exceptional demands. And then i watched Chrysler lay off a large percentage of their corporate workers in a very dehumanizing way. Now we have weak manufacturing, profit over quality (Boeing), and weak unions. So, yes, i do blame much of what is wrong today with the crap we tollerated in the 90s.

[@kal2487]

This was a super interesting conversation, thank you!

[@rrayudu]

Terrific discussion gentlemen

[@famfamfam5782]

Top tier observations all round great stuff

[@tomasfontes3616]

I liked Marshall's pressing on the issue of actually offering counter-policies and not just critics. Another thing that Marshall sometimes does with 'post-neoliberal consensus' guests, but today didn't particularly do, is to actually press them to precisely define terminology and not just say platitudes like 'get back to New Deal' (if they're on the left) or national conservatism (if they're on the right), without recognizing why some of the policies they defend were abandoned.

[@danielkelly8949]

Interesting convo. Don't agree with the take on Ralph Nadar trying to convince us that the neocons were the same on both sides when they really werent in the early 2000s though. If you look at actual policies then , both parties were super neoconified at that point.

[@sonofjoanne1969]

I graduated college in western PA in 1992. That time set the tone for today. Lots lfrom the 70's ed up to what happened in the 90's , but the 90's was where the lines were drawn that existed till at least Trump time and still today.

[@2Pax123]

These little boys were grade school in the 90s. They know so much about the 90s

[@progKansas]

Then there was NAFTA.

[@spiritualhammer392]

The 1990s were the most depressing decade after the 80s, so much got ruined and changed for the worse by 2000. Then 2001 hit and we all know how it's been since then. The 90s were like a hangover compared to the party 80s.

[@Sugarnaut]

Wonderful show, fellas! Subscribed.

[@adame7149]

I was in elementary through high school during the ‘90s. I had the perception that the ‘90s were an amazing time. A lot of racial/gender progress with an expectation it would only get better. Lots of patriotism. But when I reexamine the period, I see how festering problems were swept under the rug, only to become more aparrent in the 2000s. The internet has also been big in my life. In the ‘90s, it felt hard for me to understand forign policy and political issues because I was limited to only what the people around me could tell me. I think it’s pomising that younger generations can grow uo with knowledge at their fingertips. I hope they’ll resist the peer pressure to buy into the dominant ideals of America and won’t back down from fully reforming our ecomic and political institutions.

[@DDCrp]

I disagree but I love the guest regardless, fascinated by what he's drawn out here. He's no slouch! Great insight.

[@famfamfam5782]

Other way around about Perot I would say-he was conservative, not right wing. Perot wasn’t xenophobic, or ultranationalist, nor did he have any edgy militaristic edge( his VP choice was a mild mannered, intellectually curious actual veteran warrior poet type). I would call all those other things right wing. Perot was a gentle conservative in comparison, albeit of a very nationalist bent. Perot wasn’t a cultural reactionary (just economic and yes from the right).

[@anthonyrowland9072]

He was the last gasp of the classic republican that you could at least deal with. Nixon might've been a maniac racist but we got the EPA out of him... The Ward Cleaver republican died with him Perot.

[@famfamfam5782]

@@anthonyrowland9072 Perot as last ward cleaver republican I like that

[@campbellpaul]

Rush Limbaugh's trickle-down economics theory was popularized in the early 90s

[@Stashley78]

~10 years after Cheney-Rumsfeld found a useful idiot in the young naive economist named Art Laffer who wondered if rich people got even more money through lower taxes, would they spend more, "trickling down" to middle and lower class? Laffer Curve. Rush was a paid shill. Trump the populist pretender knighted him in Congress. Sigh.

[@peaceandpocket]

7:30 2000 murders a day?! Is that real?

[@anthonyrowland9072]

He meant a year but that's still a crazy stat.

[@mercedesb2299]

The violent crime rate in the 90s was the highest that it has ever been before or after. I don't think it was 2000 a day, more like a year but it was apparently really high. That being said, I was a teenager/early 20s in the 90s and I don't remember ever feeling unsafe or in danger. A large portion of that super-high violent crime rate was hardcore gang violence which also peaked in the 1990s. The major street gangs were getting established in the 90s and there was a lot of violence involved in that, but it settled down once territories were clearly staked out. The crime rate was not that high all over the US. It was more centered in LA and NYC, maybe Chicago. I was in Phoenix, and went into LA often and I don't recall feeling afraid, even when I was in LA.

[@mediaversenetwork]

sounds like you found Gen X.;) we never forgot.. only the media induced culture did. we told you the future ;) no one wanted to hear it.

[@direwolf6234]

why didn't anyone tell ganz that the placement of his mic covering his face detracted from the message ..

[@skylinefever]

You might like dissident right commenter Distributist Dave. He often heard people say that we just need to go back to the 1990s. He counter argues that going back to the 1990s is like Sisyphus rolling the rock uphill again, and expecting it not to roll back down on us. I say similar things about "Go back to the 1950s" when some lame right winger says something about muh family values. I just ask "Are you bringing back jobs that only require an HS diploma to qualify for? Are you going to have businesses structured so that an entry level worker can expect to climb the corporate ladder with work ethic? Are you going to end housing as investment vehicles? If not, forget it!" I frequently argue that the 1960s happened because there are no perfect systems. There are only tradeoffs. Some people had enough of the 1950s tradeoffs and would risk joining the sexual revolution. One thing that pisses me off about eugenics, is that people just jump to the forcible stuff and not say a thing about opting in. I often joke about what would happen if there were more Neil DeGrasse Tysons and Thomas Sowells out there. I also oppose immigration. I see it as the rich manipulating supply and demand of labor in their favor, not in the favor of the commoner.

[@chickenfishhybrid44]

There is nothing wrong with people feeling nostalgia for "family values" or the 50s without necessarily understanding policy nuances.

[@nicholashildenbrand8632]

He said the era of landslides is over but what if Biden wins by a landslide? I think it's possible. (Now I'm either going to sound brilliant or like an absolute moron come November. No in-between 😂)

[@chickenfishhybrid44]

Don't think that's happening

[@nicholashildenbrand8632]

@chickenfishhybrid44 what's your theory

[@rhmendelson]

Sad for screwed factory workers, but shouldn’t a 3rd or more generation American aspire to a better kind of job?

[@chickenfishhybrid44]

Yeah, since there seem to be so many "better kind of jobs" available to a large chunk of our college educated population.

[@rhmendelson]

@@chickenfishhybrid44 It depends on what you study, of course.

[@rhmendelson]

@ Yeah actually there is. Where do you live? I’m amongst people successful educated professionals in high income brackets; houses, new cars, trips abroad. The jobs are there!

[@waltarenouf7351]

Mr Ganz: If you want to sell your written word, you will need to improve your oral presentation, which is just plain sloppy.

[@DS-ux9ld]

Why can't you let the guest speak instead of interrupting all the time.

[@CoachRP]

It started well with a 90’s cultural evaluation/critic…and then devolved into a current democratic strategy failure podcast. 🥱 Sorry. I love the intent of the pod. However, the true motivations/conclusions of the guest are getting redundant & tired…”orange man bad. Here’s where America, specifically led by the right, harbored racial prejudice. That’s how they won.”

[@chickenfishhybrid44]

Long been an undercurrent of this pod.