496 BBC BLOWER TEST

[@joshmajors5963]

Hope everyone stays safe over there. Wildfire going on and Richard still throwing information out. Definitely a dedicated man. Thank you sir.

[@projectinlinesix]

The look of an 871 and dual quads on a jet boat can't be beat!

[@dr_tate]

The look of an 871 with duals on my skate board would be cool 😎

[@Turbo_Todd]

Can't beat the 8-71 looks! Love to see intercooler stacked under that blower!

[@thisisyourcaptainspeaking2259]

Yeah I agree, needs an intercooler for sure.

[@Dylanschillin]

The carbs help cool the air charge

[@Knightmare-gz9ls]

Love the torque of the roots blower. Plus great power. 900 and mid to upper 700ftlbs. Is a blast on the street.

[@andrewmoss8909]

Well pray for ya! Stay safe! AND GET THOSE CAMS OUTS!!!😉

[@Matt-sv2ft]

I’ve always been a fan of the roots blowers! Geuss I’m more old school. But I would love to see this same engine with the 8-71 and some nitrous shots! It’s the build I’m planning and saving for now!

[@brentsmith9121]

I love the instant punch of the roots blower I run a 8-71 on a 509 , but I can not go without saying that a Whipple Supercharger is hands down superior even the little 3.3 is strong power maker but the 5.0 liter is bad to the bone need more how about an 8.3 liter screw blower unbelievable

[@Dr_Xyzt]

The power difference is so small. The roots blower is the cat's meow if you run alcohol to keep it cool. --That said, the centrifugal doesn't build boost all the time, and that keeps engine bay temperatures down when you're cruising. -- It's all up to what you're trying to do. The roots setup in a '74 C10 would be a sick burnout machine. -- The centrifugal setup would be sweet in a 90's GM truck. -- In a '68 Chevelle, I'd want nitrous oxide.....

[@Jeremyv1980]

No winners and no losers on this test. Looks goes to the roots, high end goes to the vortec. Both cool.

[@ChielScape]

I want to see this test between an old roots and modern twin screw and analyze the efficiency. Im curious how much difference modern positive displacement tech makes.

[@richardholdener1727]

its a lot

[@garyhosier4765]

Dito

[@Sir.VicsMasher]

I would too but only if they tested it against the latest twin screw like the Gen 5 Whipple due to its massive increase in efficiency similar to the new TVS 2650 design. Not as interested in what a 15+ year old Kenne Bell 2.1L or Gen 2 Whipple does.. Since Richard typically uses used parts maybe use a Hellcat twin screw.

[@stevelacker358]

I agree, throwing a modern twin screw to the mix would be interesting. Obviously it’s the preferred tech for OEMs (Hellcat, etc.) these days, so let’s see how efficient it really is, and if it matches the Roots instant boost.

[@daveoneal5544]

@@richardholdener1727 factor in the higher boost of the 8-71 along with the parasitic loss it faced up top. Thus the reason for screw type and others. Think high compression engine, high torque starter.

[@hblair37]

I'm putting blower shop 8-71's on my 496's in my boat, this video was very informative. Thanks.

[@johnbehneman1546]

I LOVE IT!!!! GREAT VIDEO RICHARD!!!!! THANKS FOR SHARING!!!! I LEARNED SO MUCH!!!!!

[@cfrank925]

Omg!!! You are so close to me!! I'm in Martinez!!! Well if that's Vacaville, CA.

[@realhqcustoms]

Honestly I think the centrifugal blowers are great for a big cube application on the street, with less torque you can actually keep traction and have a slightly easier to control torque and HP curve! I've got one on my ls1 and honestly I need more cubes, but she cranks out over 700hp on the top end!

[@bdugle1]

You mentioned this combo was even stronger with a tunnel ram NA. I think it’s crying for that tunnel ram and two eBay GT-45s. With just a single 4-hole throttle body and injecting E85 in the plenum, pointed at the runners, this thing could make serious power on low boost without an intercooler. I found a nice 6.0 for my truck, but this gives me displacement envy!

[@sean5comet]

Stroker kit for your 6.0...

[@JohnnyAnderson1]

@@sean5comet $$$$$$

[@LT3Fluffy]

We're in fairfield working on my turbo LS c10 in the soot haha stay safe richard. We can't lose you!

[@OCofthe3]

Richard, at 12 min in your talk about the boost level vs power output. This gets into efficiency of the supercharger and is a topic you never go into. It would be great if you could cover that.

[@prestonedmonds4128]

I like the centrifugal for a street car. It'd be easier to control the power on the street.

[@hotrodtodd7609]

Hell yeah!!! That was Tom!! I haven’t seen him from the J&A days!

[@3800TURBO]

Id run smaller pulleys on the centrifical blower and mount a 60mm waste gate on the charge pipe to regulate boost. Probably use a bigger procharger too.

[@morton2200]

My theory is the Vortech takes less crankshaft power to run at an equivalent boost level than the 8-71. Therefore more total engine horsepower is produced at the same boost.

[@Paulster2]

Was going to state the 8-71 is going to have more parasitic losses than the Vortech (meaning the same thing, just said differently). The higher you spin the 8-71, the greater the losses.

[@ericlarkin6563]

We are dealing with the same thing here in Sonoma County, be safe, great videos!

[@erenzoscroggins8056]

Yessir Richard.... Let's keep the good content going baby💪🏾💪🏼💪🏻

[@bloodasp90]

glad to hear that you didnt have to evacuate, but sadly my friends ranch over the hill was completely lost. Thankfully he didnt loose any of his horses.

[@OzarksWildman]

Mmta mmta mmta mmta ner na na ner, me beatboxing the intro lol!

[@MLFranklin]

Very educational. Thanks for sharing these!

[@turbo67gt]

Thanks Richard great job

[@inspectorbusiness4892]

Comes down to what you have for traction and class rules. Big tires or small. And vehicle weight. If I was running the street with factory style suspension. Centrifugal. Pro street I would choose the 8-71.

[@ni_wink84]

Hope all is well for you Richard! I have tons of friends in town there and it looks bad, stay safe and I hope you and yours don’t have any issues

[@trentdawg2832]

Up here in Vacaville. ......I always thought you guys were in so.cal.......be safe brother, best to you and your family.......my eliminator eagle 230 has a gm vortec 8.1 fuel injected with that being said I'd take the centrifugal supercharger. ....it's a prop drive boat if that matters! !!!!!

[@MsKatjie]

Very impressive NA power, Richard. Stay safe.

[@madmod]

I've driven a kb supercharged small block ford but never a centri car. The positive displacement has that torque shelf which is a blast on the street. The centri seems like it would feel more tame for most driving but ultimately be the faster combo both on track and street.

[@RyTrapp0]

The main difference is that the centrifugals feel like they keep pulling harder as RPM rises, while PD blowers will fall off sooner and you can feel that. No better, no worse, just different.

[@bcbloc02]

Thanks for the testing! Would have been nice to log intake temps as well.

[@johnparker1787]

Hi,Richard, thanks for all your tests. I think the 335 heads would outperform 315s if you had more lift on cam and more rpm. Look how hp was still climbing at end of pull on boost. How about a 1471 and 385 heads? I'm sick can't get enough.

[@Sir.VicsMasher]

I would love to see this test performed with a Ram Jet, Pro Flo or similar front feed EFI intake for us guys that want to keep our factory hoods.

[@AndyR1982]

Even the old b and m 144s were ok looking. There is a guy in town that has one on a 267 in a rat rod here in town. I asked him one time why a 267, he replied cuz it was free. Best answer ever

[@MinionnitrousBHPtoBHP]

Y would u dislike this sort of vids lol not a engine man lol

[@HijazWay]

So basically, the vortec centrifugal SC is easier on the engine on daily driving, but when you push it hard it out perfumes the roots SC on high RPM

[@thegdfp6447]

Traction concerns may make the Vortech more practical, IMO

[@CrankAddict]

since a roots blower packs in more air at all rpms, it makes a small block perform like a big block. How about testing a 700hp blown small block vs a 700 hp big block and compare efficiencies? What would work better on the street? Which would get better gas mileage. Are they really equal?

[@RyTrapp0]

@Mod Zozer You're going to have a difficult time beating a BBC anywhere on the curve with a SBC I believe - even if we reduce the bore size of the BB to eliminate that breathing advantage, BB heads(and intakes for that matter) are still intended from the start to flow more air than SB heads. You could conceivably do this pretty easily with a 396 BBC and a 400 SBC; the 396 has a 4.094 bore X 3.760 stroke(even better - the '70-'72 '396' was actually a 402 with a 4.124 bore) while the 400 has a 4.120 bore X 3.750 stroke, that's pretty damn close while being able to use cheap OEM/stock replacement components. Without putting the worst factory head on the BB and any nice race head on the SB, I don't see how you make up the head flow difference of the BB. And, if you're going to put such drastically different heads on them, then what are we really testing? This would be 100% dependent on the heads, full stop. With all else being [basically] equal, whatever you do with the head choices is going to determine the result. And, if you use heads intended for similar use for each engine, then the BB should come out on top 10/10. Space is a luxury for moving air, it allows for larger ports, larger valves/more valves, better valve placement, etc. Lets not overlook the fact that the BB has bigger heads for a reason - because it can support significantly more cubes. As such, it also weighs more than an SB of comparable displacement, which is of course the advantage of a large displacement SB. While it's an interesting experiment, I don't suspect it would make a difference to anyone's plans; if you're building a BBC to only 396 cubes, you're doing it wrong!

[@norcalguy0869]

That’s nuts. Been subscribed and watching your videos for a while now and had no idea you were in Vacaville. I was in Vacaville for a while but just moved back to Dixon. Maybe I’ll see ya around 👍🏼

[@mgbchuck6527]

Nice Richard! Roots FTW! (good luck with the fires, my employer had to evacuate his ranch near Vacaville yesterday). So your in Vacaville, I'm in Hayward, I'd love to show you my MGB someday

[@richardholdener1727]

I spent a lot of time in an MGB back in high school with my Buddy Bobby

[@mgbchuck6527]

@@richardholdener1727 imagine how much fun that MGB would of been with better suspension, better brakes, better tires, a full chassis and a healthy SBC---BIG FUN (it's funny how many people had experience with MGBs back in the day)(I've never ridden in a stock one)

[@danmyers9372]

Had a boss with an MG back in the 70’s. Car spent half its life in repair shops. Because it’s BRITISH!!

[@mgbchuck6527]

@@danmyers9372 --------my MGB has NO MG under it's body--basically I fixed it

[@ScottysChev]

Hey always love your videos! This build is very close to mine. My dream is 1000hp with a 871( dont have the blower yet) what was the pulley ratio for the 871?

[@hom240]

It all depends if you want to be able to use it or not. Nothing gathers a following (mostly by those with blue and red lights on top) like a big old school roots blower sticking out of the hood.

[@edvisme]

Oh yea, a Roots 8-71 sticking up out of the hood of my 83 Caprice Classic Wagon would be awesome.

[@TwoLotus2]

93 cougar 302 here. Nobody could tell--sleeper wars.. It would be a little bit tacky though. Maybe if I painted it yellow and put a Cougar emblem on it......

[@lloydholt6511]

Great test! My two cents. For a boat the 8-71. For an auto the centrifugal blower. For bragging and show you can’t beat the roots.

[@rogerraff6823]

Love all your videos

[@FPS1200]

Excellent video! It would be interesting to see the centrifugal tested against a non production 8-71. I have a Don Hampton prepped Hampton Super II and it's built very different than the Weiand. Not disrespecting the Weiand at all, but the Hampton is on another level.

[@robertkeime4907]

Great video

[@pauldulworth2768]

It would be cool to see the 8-71 compared to the Whipple 510AX or 510R.

[@bill2178]

Watch gale banks duramax vidys

[@RyTrapp0]

The Monster Truck engine series... kzbin.info/aero/PLwtmrqcWzLtRXpEFXeXa3YF-L0xSK2Ml2 ...he tested a roots, a screw, a turbo, and the turbo being blown into the screw and I believe the roots as well. Note that they did cook the roots because it was a tight roots intended for fuel draw through to help control temperature, and they were running it dry of course. Still useful data though. The notable episode IMO though is the methanol injection test - Banks shows evidence that meth injection can create detonation, impressive test, and a bit of a reality check on just dumping different fuels into our engines.

[@guyconnell2250]

The old over the road trucker in me would just have to have the Roots. That relatively flat low end torque curve (line) is just too hard to resist. In a boat, especially, that solid, consistent low end is very nice to get a skier out of the water.

[@danmyers9372]

Wow, surprised to hear you are up in Vacaville. I always assumed you were in So CA due to your connection with Westech. You are a LONG ways from Westech!

[@danmyers9372]

BTW, now I understand why you went through Fresno...

[@andyharman3022]

For a boat application, the dyno test needs to go down to below 3000 rpm to see if the engine has enough torque to get the boat onto plane. The Roots blower has the advantage there.

[@KLMALLENDER]

Something not adding up, an 8.4to1 496 with a 250 degree cam is not usually that strong when sucking air below 4000 revs.

[@ForneyRider]

114 overlap and 500ci

[@rexwarren3052]

My favorite motor love the power big block's scream

[@johnparrish9215]

A 496 with a Blower only needs one more ingredient, a 1940 Coupe of any make to drop it in.

[@tahcogunworks]

I used to race in jet boat classes. The roots is preferred due to the lower rpms run.

[@tmoneyme]

Hey Richard, how about doing a comparison of a SBC, BBC and LS all the same size. Something like 427-454? or something like two sbc 427, one with the 3.875 vs 4.00 stroke and the a 427 BBC? if you have the parts laying around. 12-13 compression with good cam solid roller cam

[@rcairforceone]

The LS will make more power, the heads are that good

[@tmoneyme]

All depends.... Airflow doesn't always dictate more hp. But I agree the ls heads are a better starting point than the traditional 23 degree heads.

[@RyTrapp0]

He never said to use factory parts(what would be the point again?) - aftermarket big block heads are still king, and they'll own every area of the curve. There's nothing 'special' about LSx heads, they're just newer/more modern than the 1960s-early 1990s junk; a similarly modern SBC head can keep up, and a similarly modern BBC head will continue pulling a lead.

[@travispfannmuller7717]

I doubt the sb head will keep up but a hybrid with ls heads might run away with it? It would be interesting for sure

[@tmoneyme]

@@RyTrapp0 agree, 15 degree aftermarket head vs stock ls would most likely do better. But a good set of 23 degree heads that flow 330 - 340, with enough area in the head can still produce 700+ on a sbc. For example AFR 245. Which is still on the verge of being maxed out on 3.875 - 4.00 stroke at 7000rpm

[@LT3Fluffy]

Roots=huge heat pump. Centrifugal all the way. Especially in something traction limited like a truck

[@escuelaviejafarms]

8-71 for the win, lol!

[@rokkebill]

Can you take a stock bigblock chevy and throw boost at it until it grenades please ??? I’d love to see how much it’ll take 😍😍

[@angelovasilikos7980]

Hope all is well with what’s going on Richard. I love the roots supercharger for the looks. Question. you are running 8 1/2 compression to keep it safe on this marine application. What if you were running it N/A? What would be a safe compression then? 9.5?

[@richardholdener1727]

at least

[@justinfee819]

@@richardholdener1727 would 10:1.1 be ok on E85 this is what I'm building now 👍

[@hgwaterous]

It would be interesting to know how much horsepower each blower takes to run, versus how much adiabatic efficiency advantage the Vortec has over the roots.

[@daveoneal5544]

Top fuel guys dump about 1100 hp at full load to turn them

[@jasonfikes9514]

Great video as always. Where would the timing need to be set at for street use and also am I correct in thinking with race gas and a pulley swap this combo could make 4 digit power numbers?

[@richardholdener1727]

yes easy

[@abc-bm8pl]

Hi Richard, In your Honda injector position video you mentioned the domed piston limiting flame speed. Can you do a piston shape/design test showing the differences in ideal timing for each design?

[@adrianlaverick8040]

Hope you guys stay safe and the fire doesn't get out of hand.

[@kwb2260]

In truth, for a street application I’ve been disappointed by most of the centrifugal supercharged vehicles I’ve driven unless they’re pulleyed down on a light vehicle but they do usually make a big number! I would like to drive one with a wastegate to bring the boost in sooner. Personally I’ll take the roots any day!

[@Flitzer514]

Centrifugal all day long. Especially with an inter-cooler.

[@LT3Fluffy]

Centrifugal or turbo for sure. No need to pump that much air with the roots

[@larryh7760]

A nice polished 8-71 would look great in my 1971 Chevelle. That's my pick.

[@wakjob961]

I'd like to see an ignition system dyno shoot out...on any engine! Those 'Progression Ignition' dizzy's look interesting as hell.

[@stevezielonko1386]

I like the low end torque of the roots. And it looks way cooler.

[@superrodder2002]

I'd like to see the boost temperatures. That really shows how efficient the blower is

[@bartpang]

The roots will be cooler because of the charge cooling from the carbs.

[@richardholdener1727]

the vortech is a blow through so also charge cooling

[@bartpang]

@@richardholdener1727 my point was that you can't really compare the boost temps because the roots is being cooled from the start.

[@RyTrapp0]

@@bartpang It doesn't matter at what point the cooling of the compressed air charge occurs, it's still getting cooled either way. You can run draw through on a centrifugal - won't make a difference whether the carb is in front of or behind the blower. Hell, roots blowers have been blown through carbs before, back before mounting them in the 'vee' became the norm.

[@bartpang]

@@RyTrapp0 How do you measure it? That was his question. My point was you can't get a real comparable measurement.

[@JaMarvelousjmar]

Hoping you and your family stay safe

[@wisheye1]

Great combo for my riding mower😎

[@fredericrike5974]

Richard, have you done any work with two or three speed drives for turbo compressors? I'm very curious if this would (or could) make a big hp motor more "streetable". Going fast is always cool- but trying to work a huffed motor in sluggish traffic is not fun.

[@badsob83]

What about IAT's at sustained rpm. What happens to the roots as it becomes heatsoaked, still as much fun down low? Or just as comparable to the centrifugal in rising boost curve. Whats the maintenance interval on the rotor pack for sustained use?

[@richardholdener1727]

it still has charge cooling from the carbs

[@MunCompetition]

No twin-turbo testing? It would be awesome to see this compare to super chargers.

[@troydecker9685]

Richard, is the difference in low power level at lower RPM due to the displacement of the forced induction?

[@RandomLifeTimothy]

@richard Can you look into the dyno numbers being cut off on the left?

[@thisisyourcaptainspeaking2259]

I'd choose the roots blower for the wow factor but also for the low range performance b/c I'm not gonna run high RPM near as much as under 5,000RPM cruising around. Hopefully the jet pump has the capacity, getting close to practical limits with those HP levels there, I'm not sure... I can tell you not having a leg dragging in the water and scraping across sand bars, really does make a difference in about every way. But if you really want fast (lots of money going into this, looks like), perhaps direct drive is a better choice than jet pump? For even more cool factor IMO, twin turbos. Make sure there's room for an intercooler, well worth the trouble.

[@annwilliams2128]

Great video! But what about the Buick 3.8 series 2 turbo build ?

[@TheNumbers400]

Do you have fuel flow numbers? Thinking efficiency here. How much more fuel does the Roots use vs the VS

[@oceanz4me]

I have a question though. Yes 8/71 does look like the better choice, but the weight factor surely must come into affect? I'd love to know just how this comparison would go from engine Dyno to street. The gains of the Roots Vs the weight of the Vortex?

[@kennethpowers8995]

Hey have you ever had one of the 350CID LSX combos on your dyno? They just have a very unique bore and stroke so I’d like to see them get a work out. Obviously they do well building this combos for the COPO although I’d be happy to see it by itself breathing through the Ls7 heads even without the Whipple

[@AndyFromm]

Blow the vortex into the roots...

[@bill2178]

Best of both worlds

[@motorosso3349]

Blow the Vortec through an intercooler into the Roots. Probably would need lower compression (7.5:1) if the boost is much higher. Actually, this test shows how much power it takes to spin the Roots unit compared to the Vortec.

[@AndyFromm]

@@motorosso3349 roots shovels the air in, centrifugal pumps it in. There are better & worse designes over the years for efficiency. banks talked about some real bad ones that made boost but basically gave no hp improvement over na they made so much heat chopping the air.

[@bill2178]

@@motorosso3349 some of it is parasitic loss id say more is heat loss

[@bengerlach9958]

I was thinking how a 366 tall deck big block would respond. It's not a common build but it does come with forged internals factory

[@zarkeh3013]

another aspect is maintenance or repair. the roots setup has the carbs exposed while the centrifugal had it enclosed. I hate carbs, cos they always frick up on me and that's how I think. ... the roots blower looks cooler though, heh.

[@peterlyons4389]

Sound Please Us motor people need to hear 👂🏼 how it sounds !!!!!!

[@thamontgomeryz]

Have you done a video comparing the 496 bb vs the 496 vortec bb?

[@garyhunter2215]

Have you tested Bravo heads from Skipwhite?

[@unclesquirrel6951]

92.8k mr 🐿

[@jamiemuncy2219]

Man I know how ya feel with forest fires, I live on the top of a mountain here in Southern West Virginia and here you don’t get a lot of warning so in fire season gotta be on ya toes lol Good luck hope all is well. Hey question, got anything on the 460 BBF?? Bout to build one for a heads up N/A class. God speed🙏🙏

[@russelljackson7034]

Right on

[@vicmccartin]

Ill settle it. I choose TURBO lol. The roots do look like a wet dream on anything. But just as i told my buddy yesterday the gmc buses back in the day used the 671 and 871 in city buses a diesel with a blower badass had one at our local scrap yard when i was a kid. Id go roots for something big and heavy like a 4x4 suburban or something for the brute low end instant power. But if i had something light with traction problems outta the hole like a fox body or something id go centrifugal to avoid more spinning off the line. But at the end of the day turbos are skynet

[@Sir.VicsMasher]

Vacaville.. I didn't know you were a local NorCal guy, just assumed SoCal due to your relationship with Westech. Any recommendations where to find a LY6/4l80 from a HD Express around here?

[@danatkins6751]

LKQ

[@danatkins6751]

The e85 would cool the charge and should allow it to make more power !

[@neckcrank2663]

When I clicked on the like button it was #671!

[@jasonmarshall7374]

I would have liked to see him play with the pulleys on both set ups. Overdrive the roots a bit and watch it take off!! Overdrive the centrifugal and it will most likely match the roots down low.

[@glenstacey3740]

Awesome! Cheers🍻

[@AndyFromm]

Sweet