4th Edition is Busted Already

So 4th Edition Age of Sigmar isnt even on pre order yet and we have drama over the rules.
Does this command ability need an FAQ or are people been silly.
Lets chat about it.
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[@johnymiller7245]

This rule doesn't need a FAQ the core rule 29.0 (contradictory rule) clearly says that the rule take precedent when it specifically override the other rule and that's the case here since the rule clearly says : " It can pass through...".

[@lorenzosgarallino]

then we complain that rules are complex, redundant, inefficient and that new players have hard time through the faq documents. we are the cause of all of this. those who always try to distorce the language to their 2dimensional brain.

[@pixelmix.]

Ah yea it doesn't say you can pass through models. It just says you can pass through combat ranges. Either way an FAQ would definitely be helpful clearing it up. Writers and those privy to the intention of the rules get what they are trying to say. But, they also tend to forget that not everyone has the same info they have and don't "dumb" it down for clarity.

[@paulsalay]

Im on the side of being able to move through an enemy unit, but then again I could be wrong LOL ... If I was going to bet, I would bet on passing through but knowing GW I would lose money

[@Aki777craft]

Bruh this isn’t a complex rule and this is extremely clear.

[@PointyPaints]

Your right. What side of the fence are you on

[@Marhathor]

- I can see how you can interpret it as "It can pass through - and end that move within the combat ranges of - enemy units", but there are no - symbols and no commas, so it would not be 100% properly written. - The Riders of Ruin ability on the Blood Knights' warscroll states: "When this unit moves, it can pass through models in enemy Infantry units and can pass through the combat ranges of enemy Infantry units, but it cannot end a move in combat unless specified in the ability used." This is roughly how it would be phrased if it allowed you to pass through models. People are been silly indeed. It's a huge stretch of interpretation that obviously doesn't hold up, as if it was true, GW wouldn't have made it that unclear. Main reason is probably one or two streamers read the rule over too quick and said the wrong thing and few enough people fact checked it. To be fair, it does make sense with the flavour of the ability and I'm not sure the original intent wasn't to allow you to pass through models, so hell, maybe GW will release an FAQ, but not to tell us that it doesn't let you.

[@blkjet117]

This sounds like an ability for Calvary, and line breaker units. It seems OK to me, a very thematic ability.

[@j.rivera1974]

Not sure why you keep stating it is not a move ability when not only does it say move in the keyword it basically states that it can move through combat range when the rules normally prevents that. So I interpret it as a MOVE ability that allows you to supersede the original rule that doesn't allow you to pass through models.

[@PointyPaints]

Nice interpretation. See why it needs an faq

[@j.rivera1974]

​@@PointyPaintsthey just FAQ'd it apparently you do not move through the unit unless you can fly.

[@WarsmithHuggy]

Also, just to say, I agree, imagine the Iron Jawz Gore Gruntaz, they ain't stopping for shit lmao

[@DecrepitGaming]

Actually impossible to balance this lol. No idea how this is a tournament set of rules

[@ganondraker]

Take a shot every time Pointy Paints says "Move"

[@PointyPaints]

A lot of movement in that rule lol

[@afairy]

Its a move ability, thats what the tag is. It says you can pass through combat ranges, not pass through models.

[@PointyPaints]

It’s not a move ability because that wouldn’t let you pass though combat ranges.

[@Marhathor]

@@PointyPaints It's an ability with the Move keyword. That makes it a Move ability. The core rules specify more specific rules, like ones written in abilities, overwrite core rules. That makes perfect sense, as otherwise the entire wall of text would be redundant, which would be a wild thing to actually believe.

[@PointyPaints]

@@Marhathor doesn’t say anything about using a move ability, it says you can move up to your move characteristic, it’s same for the Cities order that lets you move 3” but not use a move ability.

[@Marhathor]

@@PointyPaints The ability doesn't need to specify that it counts as a move ability in the rules text when it can just have 1 (key)word at the bottom instead. It: - Is an ability. - Is classified as "Move" In the case of the CoS order, that's not a move ability, therefore doesn't trigger reactions that react to move abilities, (but would trigger reactions that react to "finishing a move", presumably) whereas Power Through does. I assume the CoS order lacks the keyword due to a core rule that states each unit can only use one move ability per phase, and again, the order doesn't count as it lacks the move keyword. Haven't tried looking for the rule, but it makes sense in my mind.

[@PointyPaints]

@@Marhathor show me a reaction that is triggered at the end of a turn when a unit moves. It’s not redeploy as that’s in the movement phase This isn’t a move ability or it wouldn’t let you move though combat ranges.

[@Seraphonsteve-x5g]

You are breaking the rule sentence into two parts when its one sentence. Both “pass through” and “end that move” refer to the “combat ranges of enemy units” but. The rule says nothing about models. If you look at a similar ability on the Ironjawz Maw-grunta it specifically states that it lets you pass through MODELS and combat ranges. The core movement rules don’t let you move through models (Section 15 of new rules). The Ironjawz ability gives you permission to break that, Power Through does not.

[@PointyPaints]

This isn’t a core move ability

[@joshuaparks9274]

It is two sentences though. "And" is joining two separate sentences into one here. Two separate statements are being made and joined into a complex sentence with the conjunction "and". The question is, are the two statements being made, "it can pass through the combat ranges of enemy units...." "It can end the move within the combat ranges of enemy units..." Or are the two sentences, "it can pass through enemy units...." "It can end the move within the combat ranges of enemy units..." The rule is written so ambiguously that there really isn't any way to tell what was intended just from what was written. It could easily be either and definitely needs a faq.

[@PointyPaints]

@@joshuaparks9274 so you can pass though combat ranges and stay in combat with the unit you started the ability with or you can move out of combat. I don’t see how this is difficult

[@joshuaparks9274]

@@PointyPaints yeah but passing through combat ranges and passing through units are two very different things. I'm more on your side as far as the RAI goes, it doesn't make much sense to write a rule that does mortal damage to a unit if you're just walking gingerly around them instead of knocking them down and putting the boots in as you move through them. But when you look at just the rule text and nothing else it could easily be either interpretation.

[@PointyPaints]

@@joshuaparks9274 that’s why I think it needs an FAQ and mainly for the pass though part

[@massimorolli4414]

An ability with the MOVE keyword is a move ability.

[@PointyPaints]

If it was a move ability you couldn’t move though combat ranges

[@massimorolli4414]

@@PointyPaints No general rule says anywhere in the leaked rulebook that you cannot move through combat ranges when you use a MOVE ability. That is specified in the "normal move" and "run" abilities. The "retreat" ability (another move ability) specifies the opposite. Page 205 of the leaked rulebook (or page 12 of the pdf if we have the same one.

[@PointyPaints]

@@massimorolli4414 yes but this isn’t a move ability otherwise you wouldn’t be able to move though combat ranges.

[@massimorolli4414]

@@PointyPaintsPlease read the retreat ability. The thing you are saying (If this was a move ability you could not move through combat ranges) literally is not written anywhere and is not a rule. I don't know where you got it from, but from the rulebook I have read that general statement is just not correct. Move abilities are a category of abilities. Some like "normal move" and "run" do not allow to move through combat ranges, some like "retreat" and "power through" do allow it. If I am wrong (I may be) if you have read the leaked rulebook, tell me the page where is this rule.

[@PointyPaints]

@@massimorolli4414 this isn’t a move ability. The rule just says you can move up to your move characteristic, says nothing about using a core ability. Same as the CoS order

[@Chrisjustice11]

There is nothing here to suggest you csn move through enemy models, its not even remotely ambiguous. You cant just take the words "pass through" in isolation and apply them however you want. The rule states you can pass through combat range. Cut and dried.

[@kewanzahedinour7304]

Needs NO FAQ, the core rules cleary state, that regardless of the type of move, models can NOt move through other models. So no need for an FAQ. No comma between pass "through" and "and" so it is referring to the combat ranges. REGARDLESS ty for the video and thumbs up, keep the conversations up, so we can all learn about the game.

[@PointyPaints]

The core rules also say you can’t move into combat range but the Blades of Khorne can. But I get your point

[@joshuaparks9274]

There wouldn't be a comma in this case. It is a complex sentence expressing two ideas, but both have the same subject. You'd only need the comma before the "and" if it was connecting two complete sentences. For example "I have a complete Khorne army, and my brother has a complete nurgle army." But no comma is needed for: "I have a complete Khorne army and a complete Nurgle army." The rule is written very ambiguously and "it can pass through" could either be referring to the "combat ranges of enemy units" or just to "enemy units". There really isn't any way to tell exactly what is meant from just the text of the rule and it needs a faq.

[@WarsmithHuggy]

Is it just me or does it seem like they aren't checking what they're making. 9th and 10th both went through this at launch too

[@davidratcliffe3039]

Completely agree with you, it seems pretty clear. It would be simple to clarify by adding "the Target" after "pass though".

[@richardgutierrez2555]

I am in favor of you pass through the enemy unit. The title of the ability is called Power Through. If the enemy unit stopped my unit then I am not really powering through anything am I.