It took 3 Years to make this Warhammer army & now I can't use it?

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My latest Age of Sigmar Stormcast army has taken 3 years to complete. Now it seems a lot of the miniatures in the army are getting retired from the game. In this video I talk about how I deal with this. This video is also a SHOWCASE of the Owlcast / Stormcast army.
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These two playlists takes you to all my work with the Stormcast:
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Owlcast: • The Owlcast Army
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#warhammer #ageofsigmar #stormcasteternals #52miniatures

[@rottendeadite]

There is something GW has never quite figured out, and it's called "Perceived Value." People don't buy Warhammer models, they invest in them. They're expensive in terms of both out-of-pocket cost, but also the cost of learning the rules, assembly and painting, and practice. When they pull a stunt like this, the Perceived Value of the Stormcast models drops like a stone, and people justifiably get upset. They feel like they just lost something of value - money, time, whatever. The investment is not as valuable.

[@garrettw5166]

From a consumer standpoint that is spot on.

[@FALLINGJIGSAW]

Same goes for the lore and the settings

[@zeroonedirty8175]

This is exactly how I felt when the completely changed kill team, all my time, money and work was worthless over night. I ended up selling them up and buying models I liked the look of until warcry got me hooked, I'll never sell that up like I did my kill team, I'll just continue to play the old rules.

[@jamesn2830]

So I feel that way, but I do wonder how much other people really do. I mean think about how big the average pile of shame is for many hobbyists. Often times bigger than will ever be fully painted. I think GW sadly, and successfully, markets towards impulse buying and I think it’s hard to say if this move will ultimately change their markets spending habits. I guess time will tell

[@photonfartsqueeze6694]

I guess. Financially moves like this pay off for them. Look at the move to AoS 10 years ago. GW made a killing from squatting fantasy.

[@Jack-cc3qm]

The first step is to realize you are in an abusive relationship. The second step is to leave that relationship.

[@52Miniatures]

But the minis are so pretty!

[@MarkNiceyard]

@@52Miniatures I got off from GW 15 years ago because the lawyers of this fine company took down my hobby page (because I did own paintings of SpaceMarines and other stuff). Now I play other games with my GW miniatures. Games that are open to all sorts of minis and have better rules on top. I'm sure you could find a new game for your minis to play with.

[@sirrathersplendid4825]

@@52Miniatures- Keep the minis. Just play them with a non-GW ruleset! GW games are pretty rubbish anyway: much better systems out there!

[@viewtifuljoe4412]

Having realistic expectations after learning how GW operates as well as getting stuff because it looks cool regardless of rules helps.

[@maddlarkin]

Honestly it was this sort of shit that made me quit 40k in 5th editon, new codex released, not only was every army I had instantly illegal, they nerfed the hell out of them and removed all the flavour, then had the front to jack the prices up on plastics 100% by halving all the box contents while keeping the same price... lot of people quit that year

[@Zer0Hour17]

Wait they retire armies? Bro I’m so glad I never got into the tabletop, I would go feral if I spent that much and then I was told I couldn’t use it.

[@TheHamgamer]

The only real popular war game (that I know of) like this that has never had a rotating rule set is Battletech.

[@Redguns4life]

There used to be a traitor guard army for 40k called The Lost and the Damned. People who invested in TLatD way back then were justifiably upset when GW retired them and refused to let their codex be used in any official capacity. Granted, you could still field them in a Chaos army by making them count as Imperial Guard allies, but still.

[@toothyweasel2705]

This is why a lot of Warhammer Fantasy players dipped when Age of Sigmar first happened. Entire armies or large selection of armies suddenly were reduced to a bunch of joke rules if not outright retired and square bases were a detriment to have with the new rules. Years and years of collections and painting to suddenly be told "Nope, sorry. New game."

[@jameshill8493]

@@toothyweasel2705is it just me or do age of sigmar models look weird, like it’s trying too hard and doing too much.

[@clickbait9125]

Look into OnePageRules! They have their own figures but also allow you to use old Warhammer ones on a standardized ruleset! I faced my brothers retired 40k army with my goblins a few days ago.

[@matthewmcguigan4293]

They can't retire your army if you have friends who will still play with you!

[@tomtom34b]

Ofc they cannot.

[@thorgrimb2416]

This is why older editions of rule books still have value no matter how much GamesWorkshop try moneygrabbing by making new editions which in reality is a few more glossy pictures obsolete and worthless fans of the game say otherwise and still GamesWorkshop can't see all they are doing is encouraging people to buy used armies and used rulebooks and codex's. How long before other companies openly refute GamesWorshops blatent rip off.

[@Chuck9852]

Have you ever met a european? They are bred to follow trends.

[@nateguiger2641]

As a former MTG player I honestly don't understand why Warhammer players would go along with something like this at all, I've never even heard someone talk about an official Warhammer tournament. Who even gives a shit what games workshop says about your figurines?

[@silo_olis]

​@@nateguiger2641 you may not have heard of tournaments but there absolutely are Warhammer tournaments across the world with recognizable players and everything. Just like MTG though, people can also play casually using whatever banned minis ofc

[@Sup3rH4ns]

The most effective thing GW have managed to do is to convince everyone that when a new rule book comes out, the old one is effectively defunct. I'm not the biggest gamer, but I have a few friends I play games with, and generally speaking, we buy into a game and keep playing it until we're bored - regardless of what happens with new releases, and will often go back to play old rules that have since been updated. Tabletop games are not the equivalent of always online, automatically updated computer games, you can just choose to play older versions if you can find other people with the same mindset.

[@WolfHreda]

Those old rules are defunct, if you're playing in an official setting. But just hanging out in your basement with a friend, spending your weekend in glorious combat, those books are every bit as valid as the new ones.

[@Strade8]

@@WolfHreda Miniature aren't though.. you can play old miniature with new rules, just need people to understand it. I think the community should be united on this one. Discontinued miniature should be usable in tournaments instead of other of the same army.

[@quitequiet5281]

By becoming influenced by narcissistic socioeconomic exploitation cultists in the form of Black Rock, Vanguard and the like... I suspect that they unleashed their once content community... The three year subscription program and you will own nothing and be happy is going to be turned upside down by creative people... They will own their intellectual property rights and copyrighted material but tabletop miniature gaming can break free from their controls and agendas. They have undermined their position and doubled down.

[@jeffreysouthgate9834]

@@Strade8 Play the game you enjoy, with the edition you enjoy ,with friends who share your enthusiasm. and ignore the official tournaments, they're a pointless exercise in qw self-aggrandisement.

[@cody7812]

If you are playing amongst friends, you can do whatever you like, Kinda like magic the gathering they do the same thing, they remove/change rules cards decks and flat our remove entire series of cards away from the game, when they do that, it does not mean you can't use those cards anymore, but you cannot use them in ANY official game. Even if it is not a serious official game a ton of game shops that run small local games only want players who are playing the most recent series with the most recent set of rules which includes removal of cards rules or miniatures that have been ousted by the company from your deck/army. Especially when even the smallest of reward money or in store credit prizes are offered to the winners you can bet your life, they will only be doing what is currently official. This is also why I do not play 40k table top, I like to buy some of the miniatures paint them up and shelf them I LOVE to read the books and watch anything on the lore I have 2500 hours in TWW2 and 3 I love so much about Warhammer fantasy and Warhammer 40k but I refuse to toss so much time and money into a ever changing table top game when so much else of the hobby interest me far more, this is nothing new they have been doing this pretty much since the start lol.

[@pieterpuk7684]

I remember a long long time ago. Two starry eyed boys buying warhammer figures to paint and play with. We loved it. This would be our forever hobby. We poured money, time and effort into it. Then one day, one of the boys said "theres a warhammer store in the next city over and we can play there". We took a bus, a train and another bus. Carefully carrying our little toy armies that we where so so proud of. When we got to the store, we where so excited to try our armies against other people than each other. And then we got the news. Most of it was "garbage". It was "non meta", it was "from an old edition", it was... not allowed in "real" games by the store owner who explained he could only facilitate play if people kept buying the outrageously expensive models. We did play a few games, borrowing from others and with some other rules slapped on some of the minis we had. It was fun.... but on the road back we noticed that despite having a good time we felt duped. We felt like our hard work and dedication meant nothing. That we would never be able to deliver enough newspapers or harvest enough tomatoes to pay for this hobby. We played a few times after that, but we never bought another miniature. In a few months we had basically quit the hobby. We both felt that we had been promised so much, if we just put in the effort. But it was not to be true. The game was great. The miniatures where great. The hobby was great. The community was great. All that was lacking was a game company that gave a damn about the little guy. I guess they are just like mobile game developers... just aiming for the whales. Those like Bas who will spend thousands upon thousands... They did not care about us, or the bitter taste they left in our mouths. So we stopped caring about them.

[@tarnocdoino3857]

And that’s why them dumping mordheim and the community carrying on with it has been a gem. Also 5th edition is coming back as popular. And of course, one page rules has made all of this company irrelevant.

[@wiaf8937]

i remember p much this. i was flamed for badly painted as well, i had a proper orc waaghh in fantasy.

[@panamajack5972]

NOBODY gives a fuck about the little guy. It's a business. Tell OPR to get their shit together and try harder and things might change.

[@hhjhj393]

Poor little tomato harvesters 😭

[@Deathtroit.]

What probably made things even worse was the jerk store owner. Telling young kids he would not let you to play your models in "real games" unless you spend tons of money in his store. Most (not all) hobbie store owners can be the biggest jerks to walk the earth.

[@lazlopwent7960]

You bring up a very important thought on GW products. I had a *very* serious drinking problem when I was in my early twenties (beyond self-destructive). A friend introduced me to an early Second Edition Warhammer 40K. I didn't stop drinking instantly, but I did slow down drastically. Eventually over about a year, I became a recovering alcoholic with a real love of building and painting miniatures. In the thirty years since, I have built and given away a dozen armies, sold a few, and used some for a substantial bits-box. I owe a great deal to the *hobby* but I do not feel I owe anything to Games Workshop. It is the hobby that changes lives, makes friendships that can last a lifetime, and creates memories as lasting as Mount Everest. Games Workshop and the hordes of hobbyists would be wise to remember this very simple fact.

[@DarkMorningFilms]

Grats man. Best of luck on your journey!

[@Matt-md5yt]

It's a great feeling when a hobby can help kick a bad habit.

[@guillaumeyeka]

I can only say one thing. Bravo for stopping this poison.

[@xxrockraiderxx]

For me building models has been a thing I grew up doing, but as GW got more expensive and provided less in each box, I've looked to move away from it. I've instead started buying more Airfix kits and having fun kitbashing. I started Star Wars Legion cos the prices whilst a bit cheaper than GW provide more plastic per kit at said price. (It'll cost me about £200 to finish my 40K army, or for that price I can buy an entire Star Wars Legion army.) As you've said, it's the hobby that we're devoted to, and GW is simply one part of it. We should never have to feel like we're caged to just that part or to be driven out of the hobby because of GW's bad practices.

[@schnuersi]

Fully agree. Its the hobby that matters and not the company that supplies products for it. Everything can be replaced. There are so many good games and cool minis out there. Just not enough time to play them all and paint them all.

[@vectorshaman338]

In the old days GW showed you how to make a tank out of the plastic a stick of deodorant came in, now your banned from tournaments if you have 3d printed heads on your minis. It seems they have lost a bit of the magic, that made them so great in the beginning. Those dragons look great and should make an appearance in some DnD games!

[@52Miniatures]

Thank you, I'm very proud of the dragons.

[@acrpprca6951]

The 3D printed heads are illegal, but I think the deodorant stick tank is still legal.

[@Kid_Charlemagne]

Yeah, thought about getting into this but I’ve seen stuff “dead” or “retired” which would be fine if it was digital content? Maaaybe? But physical and after you spend all that money, I’d rather just 3d print all the stuff and just have fun with friends.

[@Mikey__R]

GW has always been at least a little bit abusive, but the new GW is now both abusive and not fun anymore. I think I've still got that WD with the cardboard Baneblade in my collection!

[@lanterns_glow]

Theyre against fun and affordability

[@Chronic_Gainz]

Why would a tabletop game have a legal rotation? This game isn’t cheap and it’s time consuming to even get started. I was thinking about playing this game… glad I saw this video.

[@BlueCometGamer]

It isn't worth it to me anymore. Unless you are enticed by a hobby that is promoted as a lore based army building hobby experience only to realize the company only pushes the bare minimum of effort in their lore to further promote a constantly shifting tournament meta list construction hobby and collection scheme, and have money to burn in your pursuit of the MOST OP EFFECTIVE ITC CHAMPION ARMY ever, and even then, you could just play Magic the Gathering. Shit the latest Marine codex barely even has any lore in it. The Tyranid codex which used to have some of the coolest model showcase of different schemes now reduced to having 3 schemes only... It's not what it used to be.

[@Chronic_Gainz]

@@BlueCometGamer I’m going to try the ultimate starter set (probably next year, as I’m not in a rush and I just started my first campaign of D&D) but I doubt we get super into it as this info will be in the back of my head constantly. Speaking of Magic the Gathering, Warhammer should just have a Standard & Modern formats… think that would make sense. You spend all this money on a figurine… then poof it’s nearly worthless… so lame.

[@BlueCometGamer]

​@Chronic_Gainz thats the mentality theyre trying to convey with matched vs open play, but they have not done a good job of working open play into sonething seen as fun or comparible to standard.

[@Chronic_Gainz]

@@BlueCometGamer ah… what makes it not work? Are they just not implementing things how they should or hardly pushing it? Don’t each army piece or group have certain rules for them?

[@benjaminbaer5485]

@@Chronic_GainzI mean, classic warhammer was that. But it also meant that if you have made your army 30 years ago, you do not ever buy anything except the new rulebook. Which is why they scrapped it and introduced age of sigmar as a rotation format. Of course they could also just go the magic route and release new units without rotating out old ones, leading to a massive variety to learn for newcomers. Capitalism sadly will try to ruin any hobby.

[@MercutioUK2006]

Dear loyal customer - we appreciate your support over the years, so now you can support us to a greater extent by purchasing another army to paint and customise.

[@xenostim]

Regards, -The Administratum

[@malificajones7674]

The funny thing is he bought the army from eBay. So he isn't a loyal customer, and he wasn't supporting Games Workshop. I can guess exactly how much sympathy Games Workshop has for people who buy used armies.

[@MercutioUK2006]

@@malificajones7674 GW is hiking their prices even further, and honestly......if the only way to financially realise an army is to get it from Ebay then the problem is still Games Workshop, not the end consumer. Even if you do buy used models, I would be very surprised if, at some juncture, a keen player wouldn't purchase from GW to some degree.

[@LEGALMENTELOCO-qy2mt]

​@@malificajones7674 FUNNY THING: Any army "bought from eBay" was previously bought from Games Workshop. Who cares if you are the first or the second owner? One day YOUR army will become useless. FUNNY THING 2: this is happening to "FIRST OWNERS" too. Im a "first owner" buyer of "brand new boxes" and "brand new books" watching many of my books AND some of my uits becoming useless (malignants, skeleton horde, etc...)

[@RMCbreezy]

​@@malificajones7674While youre correct he wasnt an actual customer.. what about the people who do buy direct AND still get their mini's retired? Youre just being a douche

[@suddenlysarablog]

GW continues to be the best advertising for One Page Rules I've ever seen

[@fateweaver9844]

They honestly don't. OPR is boring as hell. OPR isn't going to bankrupt GW. They aren't even a blip on GWs radar.

[@alexklunder4374]

​@@fateweaver9844they are not trying to compete with GW. They are just offering a way for young kids and others access to wargaming. GW games are prohibitively expensive. And I would have never got into the hobby if I didn't find OPR. I have played enough videogames though to know EA when I see it. And GW is just another EA.

[@flameknightdragon]

@@fateweaver9844 better than anything GW puts out.

[@fateweaver9844]

@@flameknightdragon keep telling yourself that. I'm not a fan of current AoS but I don't fall asleep playing AoS like I did the ONE time I tried OPR. Seriously I'd rather suffer a hernia than play OPR

[@RichardMillerish]

@@fateweaver9844 almost everyone else says the exact opposite from you though, since OPR has “I go, you go” unit activations - there is a lot less downtime Also OPR has several supplements that help you to add modular complexity if you want it

[@maccullaghcorcoran3589]

Not gonna lie, GW constantly updating their editions to make more revenue and then releasing constant updates throughout the year is pissing me off. What is the point in buying an army book? The rules will change, so the numbers and stats do not matter and usually does not look that much different from the previous editions. Plus they will most likely replace some of your beloved units that cost way to much in the first place. Such an amazing idea, universe, story not being delivered in the long run.

[@yanceyboyz]

It's a business. It's a very profitable business. And they retire the stuff that's stopped selling. They have staff to pay and bills to pay. They have profit margins to meet. Nobody is forcing you to buy a new rule book and box set. Just like you can still play your PS2....if YOUR friends group stop you using models that's a local problem to you. I have a "genestealer cult" army that is entirely made up of necromunda models and oop metal stuff, because that's what I like.

[@maccullaghcorcoran3589]

@@yanceyboyz Yeah, and that is a poor business model.

[@GrimViridian]

With how many people are printing their own armies in an effort to fuck gw I'm shocked there isn't a sizeable group dedicated to playing old editions to boycott bs like this

[@yanceyboyz]

@@maccullaghcorcoran3589 they've just had the most successful decade of their history and the last 5 years they have broken records in the UK for their growth. Their stock is up like +1500%. They are operating with a 39% profitability and have 144 million in liquid cash. In the last fiscal year they paid all their staff a few thousand pounds as a one off bonus payment on top of normal bonus etc, because they had such a successful FY. If you bought one share yesterday, you'd already be up £60. You'd be up £470 this year with one share. That's an army paid for. If you can't afford to invest in one share of GW (GAW trading name) then you shouldn't be buying plastic toys in the first place. Bad business model...hottest take of the year hahaha

[@affegpus4195]

​@@yanceyboyz it's an issue when you are emotionally invested into something, and the other side is only trying to see how much money they can suck out of you

[@fudgin7778]

Yep, that's the reason why I stopped running the treadmill years ago. Having to renew half my army every year or so was getting old really fast. The great thing with this hobby is that, unless you are into official tournaments, all you need is a like-minded friend to continue playing whichever edition you want.

[@ItsBoyRed]

Orrrrr OnePageRules. Where everyone plays the same game, with whatever models they want. You dont have to support GW, you know..

[@johntheknight3062]

@@ItsBoyRed Exactly. That's what I never understood. Why are people so fixated on these updates? Just ignore them and play however you want, problem solved.

[@Hopkinsamadeus]

Still play mordheim 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@niklasulrich4725]

even in official tournaments no one cares. Here in Germany you can still use the models as something else, no problem with that.

[@fudgin7778]

@@niklasulrich4725 You're lucky, it is far from being universal. I've seen tournaments where models that were too old/not the latest edition weren't accepted.

[@hellix6894]

One thing I learned as a Warhammer Fantasy Battle fan is: *Rules vanish, miniatures are eternals.* Warhammer Battle has been killed 10 years ago to grow on its graveyard Age Of Sigmar. But first miniatures I painted in my life 15 years ago as a child reached this year for the first time a battleground in the V8 of Warhammer Battle thanks to a on living community. Never sell your army, never repeint it, never break it. If you fell sad when you look at it, just put it safely in a box. One day they will give you joy again. For me this is not the end of the story of your Customized Stormcast army, this is just the last page of it's first book. The second one is waiting for you on the shelf for when you will be ready for it, and it will be great. With time the joy you had by imagining and crerating your army always overcome sadest sides.

[@Dadum-bass]

Amen. I started off playing Warhammer Fantasy: Wood Elves. Those days, the army didn't even have an official codex. And the loose collection of rules from WD, often contradicted themself. Wood elf archers were either incredibly OP, or a complete waste of points. No in-between.

[@frankbauerful]

If your friends don't allow you to use your miniatures, you don't need new miniatures, you need new friends.

[@theoneandonlyweener]

I believe that it is also entirely possible to find other game systems which you can use you warhammer minis for, if that is your thing. Buy minis because you like the look or want the kit, but never if your only reason is them being good in the game.

[@KnightofEkron]

GW is such a bizzarely self-destructive company.

[@Kywu]

fr, they don't even know what are they doing, they do all on papers too like, they're just a bunch of boomers having a company that don't know his potential

[@Blopusanian]

I think it’s a small scale nepotism operation whose only goal is to give their little clique an easy life. They don’t expand their shitty production even during the company’s peak, never hire more, always just stagnating. I don’t think any of them have an interest in Warhammer whatsoever. 3D printing will kill them even if it takes years.

[@weignerleigner3037]

@@Blopusanianit’s kind of ironic you say that because that’s the state of humanity in their own story lol they are basically the imperium and we are all hoping the emperor wakes up and takes command again lol

[@ThermicLight]

@@Kywu - What does being a boomer have to do with anything here? As if by contrast are we to believe young people fully grasp their potential? This young vs old game is very childish and absolutely reeks of mommy and daddy issues.

[@Kywu]

@@ThermicLight There entreprise structure is old and doesn't work much, they're halving the potential to do more and yet they prefer to have predatory marketing and media sharing, the fact that they still rely on papers for most communications make them old and overall goofy for something so big, they're just old people that don't want to change in their ways of doing it even that could benefit them

[@OldManRogers]

My army was themed around sacrosanct and now that whole army is dead going forward. I'm fed up a lot with GW corporate attitudes

[@kapitanbeuteltier5889]

The army isnt dead. You can play it AS Sacrosanct for AT LEAST three and a half years. And afterwards your Dudes with Melee Weapon and Shield (Sequitors) can just be different dudes with Melee Weapon and Shield (Liberators or Vindictors) for example.

[@ivanrosa405]

Come play OPR, friend. You can use ALL your models, always.

[@NotTheStinkyCheese]

the army is only "dead" if you want to play the latest iteration of the rules. No one is forcing you to switch versions, unless you want to play in tournaments (or have friends who do)

[@OldManRogers]

@@NotTheStinkyCheese As things go on it will be difficult to find players and rules for it. AoS was already tough enough to get games locally, so starting to sub-niche into different editions isn't really going to work

[@photonfartsqueeze6694]

@@kapitanbeuteltier5889 What do you mean three and a half years? They said the models are officially being removed a year into the next edition.

[@ESOdanny]

I had the exact same thing happen with my Khorne Daemonkin army. I guess this is how everybody ends up collecting Space Marines. It's as inevitable as playing a stealth archer in Skyrim.

[@ldeming]

Funny enough even Space Marines aren't immune to it. I've been trying to build a Dark Angels army for a couple years and rules changes and/or models going to Legends has already burned me several times. I had thought slow-growing an evergreen faction would insulate me from the day-to-day fluctuations of the meta, but instead it just made it so right when I got up the nerve to commit to begin building a new unit, something would happen to discourage me again. I'm much happier to play and paint something like Infinity, where even factions that have been OOP for years are still supported by the game, or Kings of War, where you can paste any theme you want onto a set of army rules and a unit can be basically anything you want it to be as long as it's on the right sized base.

[@DocHattori]

Exactly even space marines arent save (also DA Player)

[@fromthefire4176]

@@ldemingas a lore fan who could only ever afford to get and paint a few minis over the years, I was more the type that grew into an artist to make my own settings, stories, and games. To imagine making a successful Ip which aside from costing too much, inherently opens players up to the wonders of meditative artistic hobby like everything involved in making an army, and then to obstruct that with random arbitrary rule changes that disqualify game pieces loyal fans invested a not insignificant amount of time and money into… Jfc. Like there’s being a business and wanting to make money, but then there’s just being so rabid about it you drive people off and that’s the story of our era, but seeing it happen with something like a tabletop game. Like, you’ll never hear of me or the probably 10000 other people doing the same right now, so much is involved in becoming successful making games, to see the current reigning champion IP run by people who just have no pride or loyalty to their fans/customers, like they’re some shameless dirty junky who lives for the high, pushing people out of the way to get to their fix. Disgusting.

[@kevinmyers6747]

The majority of my 2000 points of iron hands isn’t playable in 10th edition. They’re all nicely painted and converted with GW upgrade kits and custom bases, I can’t even field 1000points now because so much has moved to legends. Even space marines aren’t immune.

[@bulldozer8950]

@@ldemingdark angels got so fucked with the changes. Lose like 4 chapter models plus most of the generic units that can be used in ravenwing, and suddenly the terminators losing half their weapon options just because the lion came back and to get inner circle companions. What lion not a fan of lightning claws and thunder hammers for some reason?

[@Doctorduckbutter77]

First time? I was a Squat player in the 90s. I pushed a lawn mower in the Florida heat to buy my army. Then my army was eliminated, and I couldn't play anymore.

[@desano5572]

Most aos players won't mind if you proxy a few of your units as long as you are transparant about it, with the exception of maybe certain tournaments. Armored guy with hammer can be like 6 different stormcasts, dont let GW tell you what you can and cannot play.

[@necaacen]

yeah, and he couldnt have played with 3d printed and heavly converted models at those tournaments anyway. gw arnt even trying to tell people what models they can use when playing, they just have too many redundant models to fit in the rules or their manufacturing schedule. people will be running old stormcast and firstborn marines as new stormcast and primaris 10 years from now and no one is really gonna care.

[@Nero24200]

I think this comment should be pinned. The title of the video should be changed to "It took 3 years to paint an army that I can't use in certain tournaments." Honestly 90% of the problems people have with GW would disappear if they embraced that unofficial =/= unusable. My friends and I used to have this problem but once we realised none of us planned to go to official tournaments suddenly a lot of the model issues became non-issues.

[@alexanderhoclippiunus7644]

​@@Nero24200 true, but there is a certain amount of upset over the models no longer being in production. I don't use many of the models I own as the units they were, and the vast majority of them weren't "limited time," despite disappearing from the shop one day. Ask CSM players why they're mad about Ferrus Infernus dreadnoughts; it's not just because the rules disappeared. Still, this is much more warning than we've gotten in the past. Shame about all those Warcry and Underworlds models, though.

[@bliantfive]

This is such a strange take I never understood about warhammer in general. "most players wont mind if you proxy a few of your units." Yeah no shit. You are playing war with plastic soldiers. This shouldnt even be a discussion. If someone shows up with a 100% proxy army, made of paper, hand drawn, with crayons, I will absolutely play him. Why wouldnt I? What if he shows up with a 100% printed proxy army? How far up a single companies ass would I have to be to even think about demanding "official models"? It's completely insane.

[@obluraschibus]

@@bliantfive 100% printed proxy army is the way to go. I'd still buy the latest official rules, because let's face it that's what most tournaments, even the unofficial ones, run, but 3d printer goes brrrr

[@MSPaints]

Felt like a bittersweet end to the project. Superb dragons!

[@52Miniatures]

I'm very happy about the dragons! Makes me think I should probably do something more fantasy than the Stormcast perhaps.

[@robertstahl5694]

It's stuff like this that got me into warmaster revolution. I now 3D print everything. The rules get updated by the community but no armies are made obsolete.

[@plastikpanzerfactory6733]

The best part about Nurgle, everything is so bloated and rotted you can run it as anything.

[@52Miniatures]

Small green blob! Big green blob! Indeed! One of my proudest moments in Aos was smiting a great unclean one. I probably lost the game but I took that big blob down.

[@plastikpanzerfactory6733]

@@52Miniatures any who slay a daemon, are the true victors

[@Naxthural]

And ironic for nurgle! To endure through inevitable changes, and remain the same. To surrender to inevitable cycles of decay and renewal.

[@3Xero3]

I'm already converting Blight Lords into Death Guard. Pretty much only needs a few weapon swaps or a few bits.

[@benjaminbaudouin2807]

Hello, Not with stormcast in my opinion. Since when they die they vanish and get recast. Would bd strangexto see a nurgle stormcast.

[@kursedklown]

as someone who collects World Eaters and started building them with 2 melee loadouts only to GW then making it illegal, I didn't know where to continue. Then after a while I decided to build 2 different armies, but with similar color scheme, world eaters and red corsairs. my plan was to build them as versatile as possible, so I can use both armies even if they were originally from different legions/warbands, basically as proxies but their color scheme being so similar, nobody wouldn't notice. I kept doing it a while, stripping my berserkers and adding bolt pistols for them so I wouldn't have to buy another set and start all over again, I was a returning hobbyist at this point and didn't know where to go with my armies. long story short, I bought 3D printer, because fuck GW and fuck them changing rules every 5 minutes before I could even prime my new miniatures. couldn't be happier nowadays, even started making Iron Warriors kill team just for shits and giggles.

[@vhsdeluxe]

Been reading 40K for a while and so excited to get into the war gaming. Unfortunately due to comments like this there is no way I’ll be buying a single product from GW and will just buy a printer instead lmao

[@propagandapandas]

The 3d printer turn made me legit lol

[@MrBoniec]

The fact that tabletop game has updates and rotation is mindblowing for me. Guess there is some guy knocking on your doors to confiscate your army

[@King_of_Sofa]

That's why I just collect cool looking models with no expectations towards supported rule sets. I'll use minis from any company and I'm building my own world/game

[@chunkycornbread4773]

Same kinda, I love necromunda and have fleshed out what I envision that look to be in my mind. If I find a mini that fits it’s in.

[@soerenp.e.ziemens5939]

Thats how a hobby should be like. Doing/ collecting the things you want. I collect Night Lords and if they should look like I want them- they must be individualized. Also the human meat/ slaves. If they would be the fucked up mutated cultists that you only can buy as renegade Night Lord slaves, they would end up flayed by there masters (in the Lore)... Also the Night Lords themselves. They create a Lore and there is no good opportunity to have an army like in the Lore without customizing the models. Not every Atramentar has Horns on the helmet. And I don't want to buy 4 Nemesis claws (and it took long enough to get a real Night Lord theme unit).

[@TreasureTrain]

making big maps with Heroscape tiles and pitting minis from every game I've collected while using made up stats and rules is the most fun I've had rolling dice

[@yourgoodliness]

I don't blame you at all for feeling deflated. There are a lot of emotions and identity wrapped up in these little guys we spend so much time building. I still have high elves in my Cities of Sigmar force, I just use them as proxies for the mostly similar dark elves still in that range. If those get cut too, no problem, I'll just move to The Old World or another game. Cheers Alex, I look forward to your next great project no matter what it is.

[@52Miniatures]

Thanks YG! I'm thinking historicals right? I mean, Napoleon will always look like Napoleon. 😂

[@johnbruce4004]

​​@@52Miniaturesunless he looks like Joaquin Phoenix 😂. If you like colour try Neapolitan Horse Guard Artillery 😮

[@basstedson]

Your local kings of war community wants you and will welcome you with open arms.

[@grisch4329]

Have you met my friend Warhammer Fantasy Battles 6th edition? He may be a bit crusty, but he’s never going to change anything up on you. He also has just as low a model count as The Old World and some interesting mechanics like surrounding enemy units. Your high elves will be more than welcome there too.

[@Basil_Ghothickovitch]

Just to note that I think it's crazy: "GW betrayed me, so I'll go to the Old World." This is stupid revenge. Old World is the same Games Workshop game, it’s not an alternative, it’s the same thing. You still give your money to GW. GW will inevitably make the same decisions regarding the Old World too. Why is everyone dissatisfied with the female Custodes, but calmly accepted the Bretonnian Afro-female foot knights?

[@gotifan]

I finally got my Beasts of Chaos dream army collected, built, and primed, had just started painting them...aaaaaand they completely cancelled them. I have an Ogor army (probably two full Ogor armies, tbh) but I am definitely still salty af. Good thing there's still Battletech...

[@shtarpark7938]

The first red flag about Games Workshop was a long way back, when I used to read White Dwarf magazine. A readers letters asked why there was now so much Warhammer stuff in it, and why was all the other stuff being dropped. It was a fair point, as the magazine used to cover a lot of games...Runequest, Traveller, Call of Cthulu RPG to name a few... but that content was being replaced in favour of Games Workshop games. The letter asked 'since when was this the Games Workshop house magazine?' The answer was really telling; they said it had _always_ been the Games Workshop house magazine, although they might, now and again, include some other things, almost like they were doing a favour. This just wasn't true, as anyone who had read the magazine for a while knew; I wondered why they'd even bother printing the letter, if they were going to blatantly lie to answer it...but the term 'gaslighting' wasn't a familiar one to me at the time. Skip a few years, and their Blood Bowl Companion featured a new rule about cheerleaders...owning the _official_ cheerleader miniatures gave you an advantage in the game, and if they were painted in your team colours you got another advantage...but _only_ if you used Citadel paints. it's been quite sad, over the years, watching them rise to dominance in the genre using the simple strategy of taking the piss.

[@woofergranade2044]

No one is going to bat an eye if you use the minis you like as proxies. My group does that almost every game. It works great as long as the base size is the same and the model makes sense.

[@legionnaire5947]

You've got a beautiful custom army; thanks for sharing for someone new around here. I really appreciate your attitudes and perspectives too.

[@PhosPhryne]

I'm so excited to see you expand outside of the GW bubble - From infinity, to Malifaux, to 3d print games and countless others. I can't wait to see what you do.

[@wietsesartsythings969]

I have heard a lot of good things about Malifaux. Their miniatures look great and the setting seems realy nice.

[@boredcryptek5513]

I am definitely getting into Malifaux and i love everything about it.

[@stingray4567]

Yes! So much this!

[@mitchbeau6534]

Got to give a thumbs up for Malifaux. Been playing it since the beginning of 2nd ed and its been a great ride. If you like a game with a lot of depth, and a great combination of flavor and rules, then its definitely worth looking into.

[@gryphon3241]

I'l add a vote to infinity, if for no other reason than to see the paint jobs Alex puts on the minis. There basically isnt an infinity community in my immediate area, but damn the models are gorgeous, so i buy a few every now and again

[@StormofSteelWargaming]

You've still got the rules, you've still got the figures. You can still play the game.

[@dblevins343]

True, but un true all at the same time. AoS is not a light game. In order to find a good opponent, you have to have someone who also plays the game as much as you do. It's not easy convincing new people to play a varient that doesn't exist anymore.

[@mojothemigo]

@@dblevins343 Stormcasts are still a thing and I don't see why he can't use what he has for other Stormcast units. GW shop models, Stormcast used as Stormcast. I see no problem

[@TNTspaz]

Imo. While there are other factors and it's just overall dumb to defend to find excuses for GW's decision making. The main issue is official events and tournaments. Events that are forced to follow GW rules or they can't be held. There has been some hush hush ignoring of model retirement over the years but the scale they have been doing it recently is basically impossible to ignore. They are almost completely changing the game.

[@StormofSteelWargaming]

@@TNTspaz I'm not defending GW or their decisions. I couldn't care less about their games, rules, figures, company or tournaments. All I'm saying is, if you still own the rules, you still own the figures, then you can still play the game. Just play with people who don't care about official events or tournaments either.

[@DracosKasurani]

@@dblevins343 There also the cost to introduce someone else into the game. Those figure aren't cheap if you want strong one in general which also reduce the number of player who want to start playing. In general, you will need to invest into 2 good army(with similar strengh) if you want to introduce someone else into the game.

[@FamousJX]

Beautiful miniatures. Excellent 3D Printed Shields, Looking forward to everyone doing this from now on and forever. More than just for shields.

[@52Miniatures]

Thank you F

[@MiaTsukiyoko]

I wish more people would try miniature agnostic systems, like OnePageRules, were you can play with what you want as long as it vaguely ressemble what it's named after. In the end, stormcast are just knights, or holy warriors,... So just find a game where this kind of unit exist, and play with them. The true hard part, is getting people to get away from GW rulesets to try some other ones.

[@ruas4721]

Sadly the GW fanbase is even more "stubborn" (nicely said) than apple users. And apple has quality for its way to high prices, GW has not.

[@MiaTsukiyoko]

@@ruas4721 nah, as someone who work in the tech, apple are 3 to 5 years late compared to their concurent. Apple and GW are the same but in their own domain

[@ruas4721]

@@MiaTsukiyoko Sure they are late, but the quality is alright. Games Workshops quaulity ist shit most of the time (beside the material quality of the models)

[@fgregerfeaxcwfeffece]

Same problem no matter what you look at: Marketing budget works And a company with a marketing budget wants to make money. You don't make the absolute maximum amount of money by incentivizing not buying strictly from you. People love getting walled into certain gardens. Apple display stand for 1100$. Mate, If it can't beat "The World" I am not interested in a stand for over 1000$.

[@MountainsideTabletop]

Great to hear this measured, and reasonable response to what I'm sure was quite a frustrating blow! The first thing that popped into my mind upon reading that article was your Owlcast. I will certainly continue to revisit the videos documenting that army whenever I need inspiration.

[@52Miniatures]

I appreciate it MT

[@adezzz7896]

I started collecting Stormcast with the Mortal Realms collection, and adding some extra minis from the newer Stormbringer collection I finally managed to get a 2000 points army... Or I would've, if they hadn't scrapped half of our units. The good news is, most non-Stormcast players won't be able to tell the difference between one guy with armor and a hammer and another guy with a slightly different armor and hammer, so it's easy enough to proxy some units. And those I couldn't proxy, I grabbed my hobby knife, cement and green stuff and got to converting them into other units. It's not a meta army by any means, but it's definitely unique! I love your Stormcast, by the way! You've inspired me to try some paint schemes that I had thought of but wasn't sure about, but seeing how beautiful yours look I might as well just try.

[@AleriaStarlight]

Moments like this reminds me why I only paint minis. They might not be playable anymore but they're still small pieces of art with a story to them that we were here for to watch and follow along for. But I think the worst part is that 3 years to hear 300+ Euroes aren't playable anymore is such short notice... Man... GW is such a mess right now... Either way, whatever project you'll pick up next Alex, it'll be great to watch. GW or not : )

[@oskar6661]

Well, to be fair...GW makes terrible games. There are tons of brilliant games out there, just don't play GW ones. GW does good lore, good models, etc...but their actual rules are hot garbage (and often just derivative of their old work or other better games).

[@TheTrueLeafless]

@@oskar6661 I disagree when it comes to Underworlds....just that that is the most under the radar game

[@edwardkenworthy7013]

I'm very much in your camp. The Warhammer rules are terrible, I'd say unplayable except at conventions I see a lot of people playing them. (But then I used to play DBA competetively so, as a recovering masochist, I can hardly throw stones.) I have a lot of WH40K Nurgle, mainly Death Guard. I'll never play them but I love painting them (not such a fan of building them though).

[@52Miniatures]

Thank Aleria!

[@professorkatze1123]

why not just use rules that allows you to play with the army? do people HAVE to use the newest rules?

[@G0rkaM0rka42]

This story really speaks to me! Although my case isn't as severe. I am working on my first ever 40k army (Ork Freebooters) and my centerpiece units are Kaptin Badrukk and Flash Gitz. Needless to say, it was a gut punch to see Badrukk get removed from the codex in 10th after I had spent about a year painting 1000 points of Orks...

[@cynicaltigeruk4546]

Warhammer fantasy Tomb kings army players: So you're new here.

[@52Miniatures]

Ha ha! Good one, thanks C

[@ekis3]

I still have my bretonnian, tomb kings and high elves armies. All three nuked

[@AlexAlex-zt3hi]

Fantasy players you mean, right? As well as Mordheim, Epic, Warmaster, Blood bowl (the old good blood bowl), Gorka Morka, Shadow War: Armaggedon, Battle Fleet, Space Hulk. A bit of LOTR. And we can talk about the Space Marines, Squats, etc

[@photonfartsqueeze6694]

@@ekis3 Bretonnians and Tomb Kings are playable armies…

[@ekis3]

@photonfartsqueeze6694 not really when age of sigmar came out. Now with the "new" old world they are. So all he have to do is wait nine years to play his stormcasts again 😅

[@Dan_Does]

Really enjoyed this, Alex. Never known someone to hold back so much rage.

[@52Miniatures]

I'm not angry, my eye twitching is a rare medical condition caused by staring at drying paint for to long.

[@Colorcrayons]

@@52Miniatures I love that. I am now subbed because of that remark. Not because it is funny (it is) but because I need more redirection of rage in my life, by recognizing the absurdities and taking my agency back from it, instead of it directing me. You've proven to be a good example of restrained disgust, and I think its the best way to handle the disappointment in how the time you have invested has been treated by those you entrusted it with. By the way, you never did mention what the next big time investment was going to be. I know I will eventually find out now that I am subbed, but...

[@52Miniatures]

@@Colorcrayons Hah, well welcome to the channel. I'm not sure about the next big project. I'd like to try a few games, maybe do some "introduction" videos before embarking on a massive army project. I do really need to get armies for "A War Transformed" together though.

[@hedu5017]

Hadn't fully appreciated the Roman touches to these conversions when you posted about this army before, the gladiator helmets and rectangular shields look epic! Thanks also for your honest reflections in the video. I think you should keep playing with these minis using some old or alternative rules for sure

[@52Miniatures]

Thanks H! I really like how the shields work and hope to bring them into other projects as well.

[@rDunfee]

Bring them over to Anthems of War! Miniature agnostic fantasy skirmish game with narrative elements. You can literally stat up any mini you have with the rules

[@52Miniatures]

Never heard of it! Will have to check out, thank you

[@rDunfee]

@@52Miniatures Luke's APS did a read for it on his final video. You'll love it

[@michaelmiller2570]

The incredible art you've made remains.

[@52Miniatures]

Thank you Michael!

[@TwistedFew]

You have a truly lovely mindset when it comes to things you are so grounded.

[@Brofisticus]

I'd love to see you bring Battletech's Black Marauder to life. There aren't any psychic powers, interfering gods, or spooky magics in the setting. The story of the Black Marauder is one of those tavern tales you use to scare the hell out of rookies while a haunted veteran stares a thousand yards into the bottom of his glass.

[@Geistermoor]

I like your way of handling the situation - you seem a bit heartbroken, but not defeated or overly angry. As somebody who mainly paints without any real ambition of playing, the whole thing isn't as bad. My stormcasts are sitting (still mainly grey) in their shelve and enjoy the view upon my hobby desk. As they will in the future. I'm really excited to see what you will do next. I would love to see your spin on goblins, but I'm up for the journey where ever it will take us.

[@52Miniatures]

Thanks Bea! 🙏

[@christopherstephens2699]

Corvus Belli Infinity. Even if models are out of print they allow substitution, all the rules are online in pdf on their website, and the game is actually very nuanced and cool.

[@52Miniatures]

Yeah, i just made a video about Infinity, you should check it out :)

[@PannkakaMedSylt]

I'm in the same boat too! 2300 pts of sacrosancts, and only 500pts of other STC stuff. But I'm fine with this, for 2 reasons. 1: They'll be officially legal with updated rules for 1,5 year longer, they aren't getting retired right away with 4.0, a year after. 2: It's our hobby, our miniatures, our community, and we tend to do small house rules as it is already! and just like you do, we tend to convert and make our armies uniqe anyway! So as you said, you can use any of the stormcast beeing cut as something looking and beeing a similar role without anyone in the community bashing an eye :) Examples: Sequitors, they were already pretty much Liberators with some robes, so Liberators they'll be for me! Most heroes will just play as some hero thats avaible, sacrosanct wizard, will just play as a Thunderstrike armour wizard. My Protectors will most likely be those new Elite models getting released. The old shooty boys will just play as one of the new shooty boys. Basically, it's disheartening when models that aren't even that OLD gets retired already, but among my 11 warhammer armies for AoS/40k (Or ToW) almost every army is using old miniatures not sold anymore, often with an updated sculpt avaible, but I like the old models still, and most of my armies are heavily converted! My stormcast army is an Bretonian themed army, with all bretonian helmets, symbols redone and so on, so I often had to clear up what they were anyway. I'm from Stockholm myself, and know the AoS community here and in most countries are very open minded and love personalised armies, and woulnd't want you to stop using your lovely models :) One again, You are justified in feeling bummed out about this, but just to let you know you can still use your miniatures :)

[@James-xb7qc]

They have rules support for all of 4th edition, its just tournament support that ends next summer.

[@PannkakaMedSylt]

@@James-xb7qc Aye, you'r right.

[@alexhamilton6188]

Heart breaking! At least you know what there is in the greater wargaming world, look forward to your next project and great to meet at Salute.

[@52Miniatures]

Thanks Alex! great to meet you too.

[@Lightscribe225]

This is why I kitbash. It doesn't matter if units are made obsolete if it only looked vaguely like that unit anyway. Most cases I don't even need to do anything, and it's now whatever new units were added. My kitbashed liberators became sequitors and now they're liberators again. Cause they were old chaos warrior models with the chaos icons sanded down and given stormcast helms. Weaponry is so varied and vague enough I can call them anything.

[@52Miniatures]

🙌

[@fulldrawpainting]

Well ill do you one better, my entire stormcast army was discontinued....all of it. Every last one. My entire 2k list painted has now left me 100s of ££ down. All to release more models for a range that didnt need them. Shocking from GW

[@N3mdraz]

GW underestimates the loyal playerbase loss by discontinuing armies. Completely stopping Warhammer fantasy made me not wanna buy any GW miniatures for 5 years because of resentment. I finally bought AoS and 1 year later they reintroduced fantasy. I know friends who sold their old armies and now pulling their hairs

[@kingbonezai4925]

You can also use those models as proxies for other units, if that model is no longer a dedicated unit, then you can say "its a GW model that cant be confused for another profile, so it is 100% legal" especially if it is customized in any way

[@Trazynn]

GW found an infinite money glitch!

[@ObsceneSuperMatt]

The CFO quit and sold two-thirds of her shares, it seems. The Chief Financial Officer, person who manages the books. So, perhaps not so infinite.

[@sirrathersplendid4825]

Not a glitch. It’s a core feature. Keep updating the figures, keep updating the rules. The suckers will buy it all regardless.

[@BloodyArchangelus]

@@ObsceneSuperMatt because gw is dying and amazon deal is tax-evading scum for amazon. But gw would not die. they just have to adapt.

[@Wolfboy607]

@@BloodyArchangelus my man, they've been doing this longer than I can remember. I'm 30 now. Amazon has nothing to do with it, scum though they are. GW is just also scum. Corpo bootlickers all the way down the line.

[@frasercake]

@@BloodyArchangelus dying? they were the best selling company through covid 19, they had record highs above any other company in the world, they have enough bank to survive for years on inflation and interest, they returned workers "bonuses" the government paid to people who struggled through covid and paid their workers themselves they done so well, the CEO changed a few years ago and was an ex buissness manager not a designer or game maker so his goal is more profits than ever by raising the price above inflation of materials by massive margins.

[@pugcopter]

You could still use all these guys for an epic frostgrave campaign! That’s how I’m handling a lot of the issues.

[@Skjorn]

Stumbled on this in my recommended and it's one of the most constructive and wholesome perspectives I've seen online. I absolutely love it! Keep it up!

[@52Miniatures]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@BGP369]

The only reason to retire products is to force you to buy new products. Its up to you if you want to continue to be exploited like this or not with this company. If it were me, I would no longer give the company money - never support companies that show bad behavior.

[@benjamin2629]

I feel your frustration! I still remember walking into a GW store shortly after the release of AOS to look a the models and in a chat with the manager I mentioned that if feels like there is no place for my Bretonnians in AOS and the manger pointed to the Stormcast and said, "Here's your Bretonnians" I've never set foot in another GW store since. I wasnt angry they removed Bretonnians, I was a little frustrated they removed WH Fantasy, but we could still play that game as we had rulebooks and supplements. It was how little they gave a care about the years I had invested into the models and army. This sparked a big change in the way I treated GW, same as you. I still play Warcry with my kids, the rampant edition change doesnt effect us as we still play Warcry 1st ed rules. If we ever get into larger scale games I would grab one page rules though. I also play Blood Bowl at the FLGS, BB is remarkably static vs other GW titles. I hope you keep up the army sized projects from time to time, they make for good viewing. Just find a game or IP that gets the creative juices flowing. Dragons look lovely, the wings are perfect. Lets hope someone makes a 1st Law World wargame!

[@justinland1208]

Wow, those are beautifully done. You've got a real talent for modelling and painting.

[@52Miniatures]

Thank you very much!

[@itwassean]

I love the scheme and painting that you've come to in this army, and while I'm sorry that a lot of these models will be rotated out, you have still inspired me to try Sigmar for some painting projects. Thanks for the video, it was a blast to watch :)

[@52Miniatures]

Thanks W, I appreciate it.

[@Ancientreapers]

0:48 Of course, GW wants to sell you and get you to spend even more money for new miniatures.

[@SWW978]

Never let anyone tell you how you should play with your toys

[@Neolazaro91]

Player: ''It must have taken me hundreds, no, thousands of hours to make this army!'' GW: ''Hey look! I made a new model range. It only took me like, 10 seconds. 11 tops.''

[@HighLordCrypto8951]

This and many other reasons is why I have left GW, and it honestly is really sad and I feel bad for my miniatures... poor guys.

[@peterenis3507]

First warhammer video I have ever watched, the game's gotta be amazing if people put up with this. I love your way of presenting, it feels so calming almost asmr-like

[@gregorycafiero9688]

Adam Savage has a TED talk about trying to recreate a maltese falcon prop and all the steps, versions, improvements, and logistics of it, how different methods of casting adds and removes dinensions, etc. At the end he talks about the things he could do that would make it perfect and closes with the remark "but that has never been what this was all about". I think Ive taken a very similar approach in the hobby, where getting an army, painting it to the standards, picking schemes, improving skills and revisiting pieces and stripping and starting from scratch. All the things to make it absolutely perfect to out on the table and play, but really, to quote Savage, "thats not what it has ever really been about". GW can take away the most limiting and personally least fun aspect of your army, but cant take away what you spent almost all your time with the army doing. I wouldnt know you if all you did was play your army, but showing the real core of the hobby with it and making excellent videos on making it, youve inspired myself and others for all sorts of different things in the hobby, and that cant be taken away. Basically, rules are a great first step to get people into the hobby, but fast become the least important part of it.

[@52Miniatures]

Thank you G 🙏

[@XilejaffacakE]

Hi Alex, I know exactly how you're feeling at the moment. Yesterday a similar thing happened in Warhammer 40k. GW had released some amazing looking rules that were coming in the new books for Orks, that specifically made Grots (the little 40k goblins) and their fun little machines actually relatively competitive and wacky. As a player that has a very custom Grot army with a stupid amount of time and effort put into it you can imagine how excited I was. However, yesterday it was revealed that more than half of my entire army is being moved to legends and therefore essentially being dropped from the game and forgotten. I have now got literally no motivation to continue with my army now and really don't know what to do about it. Thank you for the video.

[@52Miniatures]

Grots are the best thing in 40k! I'm sorry to hear about this.

[@sirrathersplendid4825]

I don’t understand this. Surely you can continue playing them with a slightly tweaked form of the rules? Is someone actively there to police your game? Someone going to arrest you for using a supposedly “non-supported” army?

[@XilejaffacakE]

@@sirrathersplendid4825 People saying this are simply unhelpful. I know this. I enjoy all aspects of the hobby, including playing some small local tournaments. Even the fun, small local tournaments play matched play, which don't support Legends units. None of my Grot things will get updates in the future as they're Legends. I will still be happy to play with my close friends in casual, as I always do. As someone who likes playing matched play in local tournaments I am forced to not use any of these models. Therefore people shouting 'Just use them anyway, screw matched play!' are just unhelpful.

[@sirrathersplendid4825]

@@XilejaffacakE- OK, so you like tournaments. Fair enough. Then it’s a problem…. But I wonder what percentage of Warhammer gamers play tournaments?

[@XilejaffacakE]

@@sirrathersplendid4825 I'm not sure massive amounts of players go to tournaments, even the small fun local ones, but the 'usual' way people play Warhammer is matched. I cannot answer WHY that is the norm and a huge amount of players play it that way but that's just how it is. It's mainly because GW try to obviously balance their game but they do not account for any Legends units in their balancing. So that puts a sour taste in people's mouths if suddenly my Legends units were somehow horrendously overpowered. I'd feel really bad and wouldn't want to use my models if suddenly my Grot Tanks became really overpowered, as I wouldn't want to be seen as just trying to win at any cost.

[@RebelAdvantage]

People are following this channel because they love painting, not because they love Warhammer. I really look forward to more videos featuring minis from other publishers.

[@Wicknology]

I appreciate your positive spin on this, but the rules that make those units no longer usable should not stop you. If you arent playing in a GW store or a tournament, just use them and proxy them for other units? No one at a casual game or non-GW tournament is going to give you a hard time about it. You probably couldnt use this army at many official GW tournaments anyway since it includes 3D printed bits. I want to validate a lot of folks who are, rightly so, feeling burned by this announcement, but these minis are far from being useless.

[@52Miniatures]

Yes indeed! In the end it's just the round bases that matter if we really come down to it. Or square... if you're into that kind of weird stuff.. 🙃

[@acrpprca6951]

​@@52Miniatures Glad you caught this comment - the 3D printed bits already "invalidating" your army is a great point that I missed in mine. I'm firmly in the camp not just of "your toy soldiers, play with them how you see fit" but also "don't let the game ruin the play." It's just rolling dice and moving little guys around. Why make it more complicated than it needs to be? Like, I'm sure there are countless "better" rulesets for wargaming out there, and I know for sure there are companies who treat their players better (it's hard for a company to treat them worse, this kind of crap being a prime example) but life is just too damn short for me to be trying them out, picking out one to stick with, learning the rules to the point that I'm not in my own way in trying to play them, all before even trying to find other people who are interested in doing the same. All that time spent is time NOT spent actually playing the game. I started with Warhammer. The people I play with play Warhammer. So that's what I play. And that's what I'll continue to play, baggage or not.

[@Wicknology]

@@52MiniaturesI am a round base kinda person, but I am not here to "base-shame" the old world folks

[@GeorgMierau]

3 years cycle ends and a GW army turns into a pumpkin :/ Great models and a lot of inspirational content though!

[@lexmen1089]

This is why Im hating Legends more and more over at the WH40k side. Yes, Firstborns would be rare as Primaris have become easier to make, and conversion from Firstborn to Primaris have also became safer, but for EVERYONE to become Primaris instantly is kinda crazy, while most of their old Firstborn weapons become 'irrevelant' (which now i think bout it is odd, since I think a Primaris Tacticus can hold well a Melta rifle or a Grav-cannon without issues. This is worse when its Relic stuff, not only Contemptors and Leviathans, but Relic terminators are gone? Any Heresy-era weapons gone too? (Volkite are supposedly making a comeback as Neo-volkite pistols, but so far only a few elite units use them and they are generally quite unused) Literally most Firstborn units and vehicles simply shadowbanned?! and what I find so crazy is that Space marines arent the only ones with this issue, like Tau having Legends is kinda weird because "they are old" or out of production, but Chaos Marines? Orks!? *CHAOS DAEMONS?!* These are the armies you least expect to get rid of stuff because they dont make it no more. Before I parts off, yea you can still play with Legends, but its only on casuals, and overall not alot of people use Legends units as they are very often unbalanced. Currently we at 10 edition and most Legends units are updated to fit the edition's new image, but people still wont use them even when technically they are "newly updated".

[@BlizzAz]

Don't despair, the realms of One Page Rules would welcome your armies to join them for the greater glory that is gaming agnosticism.

[@elcruzador3795]

Bretonnians, Tomb Kings, Lizardmen: First time?

[@drdiscostu]

Hahaha I mean he's literally an AoS player complaining about GW taking away his army when AoS killed fantasy when it entered? With GW it seems there is 40k and there is a bunch of temporary games and that's that

[@Atraa]

​​@@drdiscostucame to say this. My poor dark elves

[@moonlightets3571]

I had 16 years into Warhammer Fantasy and came along Age Of Sigmar. Now I have many army’s obsoleted and well a life style gone.

[@thel1chking]

# 1 - Just proxy # 2 - Play OPR Age of Fantasy

[@Snaaaakey]

This business strategy will end up being GWs eventual downfall. Late exploitative capitalism always has the same ending.

[@NomadSoulfire]

I was under the impression that the storm cast models are being updated not the unit being squatted?

[@52Miniatures]

A difficult impression to make if acting on the first information they release through the document I refer to in the video. I just wish they would handle their communication differently.

[@VulpesChama]

I'll be honest here, but GW is the reason I'm not getting into this hobby.

[@noonia]

Ye I full on knew what I was getting into… I spent way too much money and now after 3 years I’m starting to regret it. But the gold thing, I can sell most minis for a markup since they rose the prices so much. So I’m making money on some of these.

[@hughmahn484]

Trust me, as someone who's been playing this game since childhood: Games Workshops C-suite is their own worst enemy.

[@SpeakyDeak]

happened to my Warhammer Empire army, they destroyed the whole world. and now the wokesters are in at games workshop and are killing 40K it can only get worse. im sorry dude

[@macm5542]

"Woke"...

[@taredin]

Maybe I can give you another perspective. I have the same problem with Warhammer Fantasy Battle, I built my entire chaos army in 4th edition (lizardmen vs. Bretons). One thing I took away from this is that all my generals no longer exist in the following editions, but since my friends started in the same edition of Warhammer, I have a house rule so that I don't have to retire my army. It's played according to the rules of the 4th edition and my friends have no problem with that, I'm just stuck in the timeline of the 4th edition, but that's ok for us. I've stopped buying new figures because it's an endless spiral with each new edition. I did the same thing as a former tournament player at Magic the Gathering, I have more than enough cards to feed 10 friends, I think it has to stop buying and from the perspective of an army collector. It doesn't mean that I've given up painting miniatures, I just only buy models that I want to have for the sake of painting. Thx for the Video.

[@52Miniatures]

Thanks T 🙏

[@rossrowley]

I'm the same, Ive been looking at LOTR games workshop minis, and they're about to stop making it???

[@Wijkert]

11:42 Really enjoyed this part of the video with close-ups of your work! Edit: KZbin telse me it's the most replayed part of the video, so I think other viewers enjoyed that part as well.

[@helvetika7173]

You did a wonderful job with those miniatures. I have never played WH, but I love painting the miniatures. They look nowhere near as good as yours, but I can tell you put a lot of love into them!

[@Joybuzzard]

In an age where you can go to your local public library and access a 3D printer, Games Workshop should be watching it's step and doing everything it can to avoid alienating it's customers, instead they seem to be trying to bury themselves.

[@acord4601]

This is one of many reasons I quit playing GW table top games. I used to play alot of 40k, but they kept making changes for "flavor of the month" models. So you had to keep buying more and more models or you were not competitive. Then when, or if, you did build up the army, they would just change the rules in the next edition.... costing even more money and changing the "flavor of the month" models.

[@Mesafina]

Are you in the Oslo Outlands by chance, around the 1:25 mark?

[@52Miniatures]

No, not Oslo :)

[@ddrozdov01]

About other games: i really enjoy playing Battletech. If you looking for a really good wargame with many options how to play and what role in a great scheam of combat to choose Battletech is a game for you !

[@DicemanCobrak]

If you haven't heard about it or looked into it, check out the game Kings Of War. They have a prime rule about miniatures that will let you use all those mini's you've put such great work into. Might have to rebase a few, but as long as you can clearly indicate what is supposed to be what, you'll be fine. It does play more towards old fantasy with blocks of bodies and movement trays rather than skirmish level like Age of Sigmar but at least you'll never have to worry about if your time and effort in making a badass looking army will go for naught.

[@PQuig]

Honestly, this was a really lovely combination of mature reflection and useful hobby tips. Thank you for your mature reflections through an annoying situation, its very much appreciated

[@52Miniatures]

I appreciate it, thank you PQ

[@perkulant4629]

My whole faction is retired :( R.I.P Beasts of Chaos.

[@musclenugget92]

Why dont they just release an updated ruleset for those specific minis?

[@4ksandknives]

The paint job and detail is amazing! They look phenomenol!

[@52Miniatures]

Thank you very much

[@kevinmyers6747]

This same thing has happened to me a few times over the years. I’ve got tons of nicely painted and converted squads moved to “legends” or just removed all together. Makes me feel totally justified 3d printing models and just using the ruleset that fits best with my models.

[@avalineriley6809]

Feel my pain. My first ever undead army is still sat in a display case because I haven't been able to use them, like, ever. I got into Warhammer as a kid and my first ever model was Nagash. I got the books, I asked people who were playing and built my army around this badass necromancer... Only for them to kill off Nagash and write him out of the rules a month after i'd got my final part to fill up the point requirement.

[@connorjensen9699]

Any chance we'll see some warmachine from you? I think the models would take your painting style really well, the rules are great, and I am playing tomorrow with an army that has models over 20 years old in it.

[@52Miniatures]

I don't know. Maybe!

[@charliecordell4760]

These paint jobs are absolutely stunning. I love your style.

[@52Miniatures]

Thank you Charlie!

[@ronin7992]

I've spent decades working on armies that are no longer 'usable'. I stopped paying any attention to gw's rules a few years ago. MY armies are still very good looking and as you say, the hobby side is strong.

[@JavlinVII]

An excellent presentation. There is much in what you say that I relate to, and you do a good job of expressing your thoughts without coming across as angry or bitter. Personally, I've had similar experiences with Warhammer Fantasy, 40k, Age of Sigmar, and most recently Underworlds. Though, you handle it with a good deal more grace than I have. If you would like a way to utilize your beautifully painted collection I would recommend looking into One Page Rules (OPR) and their Age of Fantasy ruleset. My local group has now completely converted from 40k / AoS, and we still get to use the models we bought for GW rules.

[@Calimbandil87]

They did this to me back in Warhammer Fantasy 6th edition. Back then Chaos was one united-ish faction. You could use Mortals, Daemons and Beast units in the same army. Choosing one as your core and the rest as special units. Mine was about equal parts of all three. Next edition they're fully separated and I'm stuck with 3 thirds of three different unplayable armies.