4WD Tech: A sanity check on recovery points (aftermarket vs standard). | Auto Expert John Cadogan

[@bushy0299]

The better your 4wd is, the further you have to walk to get a tractor.

[@chriswaters3442]

The walk to get the tractor, the slow drive back to the bog of boisterous bravado, the slow return drive with the tractor, and the final walk back (in the rain, of course) to the bog are great character-building interludes in the great tapestry of life best learned in one’s early teens.

[@mrgoodman6620]

Whatever gets you in, its a Toyota that's getting you out. LOL Funny story though. The tractor wasn't far away, but it couldn't recover the vehicle, but my cousin had a masive bull! that was as friendly as he was strong. My cousin put the rope through a truck tyre and shackled each end either side of the vehicle, so forming a V from tyre to car, he then called Bully, (yes honestly the bulls name) who came up, put his horns through the tyre and effortlessly!! Walked off bringing the vehicle along.

[@jeffreyhansen6740]

For shackles here in the states they sell shackles made in China 🇨🇳 my son threw mine away

[@jasonbarnes5605]

@@mrgoodman6620if you're stuck one day and a patrol rolls up, would you want to be recovered?

[@mrgoodman6620]

@@jasonbarnes5605 D'ho lol

[@tonynicholson3328]

Big jerks can be useful in recovery, but only if they are on the end of a shovel...

[@FishandHunt]

😂👍🏻

[@subwayfacemelt4325]

That was beautiful, thank you Tony.

[@johncunningham4820]

PERFECT Statement .

[@TRAVISGOLDIE]

I was professional overland guide for years, I’m sick to death of the sponsored kit craze which I call shiny kit syndrome, it was the same in the army everyone wanted a gadget to make life “easier” the reason I don’t call myself a 4wd ear is because I don’t like breaking my cars or carrying on like a pork chop just on weekends I tend to travel for months and cannot afford to break my stuff as it’s too much of a risk to my friends and clients

[@brad1367]

nobody cares

[@whya2ndaccount]

I've spent quite a while on armoured fighting vehicles (tanks, APCs, etc.) and have done a fair bit of recovery. I am stunned that recreational 4WD recovery seems to be a crowd sport with families gathered around "live" cables etc. There seems to be a complete absence of people spending a bit of time having a think as to the best option or going with the common sense approach (temporarily unload some of the load, reduce tyre pressures if necessary, etc.). I'm not an expert but have some experience and am just amazed at the usual approach of "just yank it out".

[@paddymccarthy6212]

Gday John Nice work again. Mad Mat 4WD is a good place to learn. 4WD/24/7, all for adventure, is not Cheers

[@Paul-45-70]

Don’t forget Ronny in that last group.

[@operation4wheelz]

My 2 bobs worth… go and do a 4wd training course, in particular “FWPCOT3326 - Recover 4wd vehicle” module. The 4wd industry is a debacle when it comes to ratings of equipment, requires proper learning and this question can’t be properly answered in 1 video. John.. the tow ball is NOT a viable option. It’s not the ball that breaks. It’s the welds!! Do not do it!!! Don’t even entrain it as an option.

[@stagggerlee]

The problem with common sense is that it isn't very common any more. I don't know about Australian schools but here in 'merica we quit teaching any actually useful life skills, like shop or wood working, or "home economics" (cooking, sewing, etc.) about 35 years ago. Now they only ask how they feel about themselves, and question whether they feel like they have the right genitals. Most people seem to know f all about f all and are proud of it. I really enjoy your channel, thank you!

[@ddsgardening7437]

It's exactly what's happening down here WTF

[@lindsaybrown7357]

Yes, same happened in Australia. state governments closed tech schools all over the place. Nowadays too many are armchair experts getting all their knowledge off the internet, not actually out there and doing it.

[@SalvoDan]

One benefit of “rated recovery points” is that it discourages the dickheads from fastening onto random locations like suspension components or chassis crossmembers. Also, doing a nice, safe 3-line winch pull is much easier when you have a hard point dedicated to the task. Also, some very prettily painted (or anodised aluminium) recovery points are much easier to find in the fetid mud or testicle-freezing cold water of dingo piss creek than a chassis-black factory tie down point, and also adds a lot of street-cred to your mall-crawler.

[@carmelotripolone8236]

A can of flouro paint is cheaper than Al anodised bits.

[@NormanMorris-n4r]

i remember my first recovery experience. 8 4wds, 3 winches, 2 come-a-longs, and at least 6 snatch straps, plus shackles, dampers and various pulleys etc. lead vehicle bogged down into sand. nearest solid ground was about 12 metres from the rear of the lead vehicle. being new i was vehicle 6 and the least experienced. bob (not real name, to protect the stupid) was vehicle 2, grabbed 2 snatch straps and a couple of shackles, climbed under is vehicle and used a shackle to attach the strap to a point on his bulbar. then used shackles to link the straps together. then dropped the strap over the tow ball of the lead vehicle. we moved well back, as bob was known to be pig headed and a know-it-all, he gunned his vehicle in reverse. nothing. went for a second and third time, with little success. on his fourth attempt, the tow ball broke free, shot backwards and went through both the front windscreen and out the back, including going thru a cargo barrier. if he had his family in the vehicle the ball would have hit his wife and at least 1 child in the back seat. eventually cooler heads prevailed. bob was never invited back out on a trip, and his wife divorced him later that same year. we all undertook some training from the local towing company. I've never had another recovery. going on almost 2 decades, touch wood

[@teeanahera8949]

So the tow ball broke free meaning the nut came off, if the nut was loose then a nut was in charge. They’re about 20mm of high tensile steel and thicker than any shackle.

[@Chris_the_Muso]

Just got a fourby back in my life this year. The first piece of recovery gear I got was a trenching shovel.

[@johnanthonycolley3803]

Followed closely by the " Jack All " high lift racket jack .. 😊

[@Chris_the_Muso]

@@johnanthonycolley3803 ...Still got one in the shed 😂

[@dustyfarmer]

Did you get a pink handled one so the wife can operate it when needed?

[@Chris_the_Muso]

@@dustyfarmer Get her in a fourby? Not ferkin likely LOL.

[@bubbleobill267]

A sense of humor is essential too!.

[@nigelliam153]

My father was a recovery mechanic in the army in the 50's. They didn't have flash recovery gear back than. He taught me how to safely recover a 4wd. He also told me some horror stories like where he arrived at scenes were people had decapitated themselves trying recover tanks and trucks or slept under their trucks on soft sand to keep warm only to be crushed to death as it sank down. I also found Russell Coit videos both educational and funny for the 4by enthusiast.

[@johncunningham4820]

Yeah , Russell Coight was EXCELLENT at demonstrating what a " Dickhead " means .

[@matthewblack5656]

You should see the things I've done to tie down points in many years of tow trucking. They're remarkably strong. Especially if not pulled sideways. I also studied a BSc way back, plenty of engineering and maths in that.

[@matthewblack5656]

One caveat is I don't snatch, just steady winch.

[@ppal64]

Batchelor?

[@JohnSmith-pl2bk]

@@ppal64 Batch a laureate?

[@matthewblack5656]

Ooh. I fucked that didn't I. Bachelor.

[@JeremyHutchinson-t2w]

I’m not crawling in the mud if I don’t have to. Tow balls are my go to when I have to drag a a car on the truck.

[@hackfabrication139]

'When better dickheads are needed, humanity will invent them'. Well suited comment for the current global political scene if 'elect' is substituted for 'invent'.

[@dfross87]

In all the time I've been out 4WDing, I've never been involved in a snatch recovery. Never needed it. I carry and use a snatch strap -- as a glorified tow rope with a bit of built in shock absorption. As one of my 4WD mentors/mates always said: "AS SLOW AS POSSIBLE, as fast as necessary."

[@joecraig6056]

Lost a school mate last year through precisely this type of circumstance...A tractor recovery using chains of dubious provenance (30-50 yrs old), and He was spectating. At 67 years old he knew better. A side point also, the majority of fatalities in the Ag. sector are seemingly +50 years old and male. Wakey wakey fellers

[@MrXaeox]

Also if you do plan on using a snatch strap, inspect it before using it. Check for fraying, nicks or cuts in the strap. Wash your straps particularly if the strap gets dirty, you've just essentially put a bunch of abrasive medium into the center of the fibers where the stretching occurs slowly (actually rather quickly) abrading and cutting away the material 1 fiber at a time. I've got no issues jumping straight to a snatch strap for recovery but maintain your gear and not performing snatch recovery like your taking off for a drag race will do a lot to mitigate risk.

[@michaelsecomb4115]

Wouldn't use a towball because the rope could come off, but it's okay to put the pin through it. Don't floor it either. I prefer to use my winch for a slow recovery minimising the load. Slow and steady is the go.

[@darrensamuels1511]

Shock loading your gear will end badly at some stage.

[@marcellinden7305]

Been 4x4ing for 23y in my Prado, 42y over my life time. Successfully recovered lots of people from all kinds of silly and nasty spots, most of the time with some logical thought and only a hunk of rope and my tow hitch. Never been bogged, except for the three times where we needed a bogged 4x4 vehicle to recover during advanced driver training... But I agree totally with you John, there is always a better idiot that ignores experience and insists they know a better (often wrong) way to do things...

[@FlakeyPM]

@marcellinden7305 The rope is an amazing invention isn't it. That is all I carry besides the shovel and compressor. And the longer the rope the better. (and safer)

[@ln5747]

Presumably not a ball hitch?

[@robertwhittaker1801]

The best thing to do is get some training in how to drive properly and most courses include how to safely get out of trouble

[@10burna10]

"Rated recovery points" and "tie down points" are one of the big myths (in my opinion) in 4wd circles. There's no evidence of any testing with these "rated" products, they don't come with a certificate indicating they've been tested and even if there has been, the vehicle chassis hasn't been included so there's every chance you'll do more damage to your car with one of these points on. The factory points also aren't for tying down on the ship like everyone claims (there's plenty of new cars being transported without these fitted by the manufacturer), they're tow points for using when old mate comes to tow you onto the flatbed when you've had a breakdown. Again, just my opinion, these factory points are plenty strong (on a Hilux/Prado at least) if you just have a little think about what you're doing before treating them like indestructible points like one of the 'full noise boys'.

[@Paul-45-70]

You beat me too it! These “rated recovery “ items are aimed at the same dickheads that get the GVM upgrade.

[@cjjoe2385]

You obviously have little idea on how recovery points get their rating. I have first hand known companies that use a vehicle chassis and recovery points during destructive testing in order to get their rating.

[@10burna10]

@@cjjoe2385 I can only form a view based on being a [potential] customer. For my vehicle at least, none has had any evidence of testing. I'd be interested to see testing especially involving the chassis for every vehicle they make these recovery points for, if you'd be so good as to supply it. I still won't be buying any though as I haven't needed them so far and I don't think I will.

[@JAStheACE]

@@10burna10 I have fitted many dumb things to fourbies over many years as a job. I always are more concerned about how these products are going to be treated or if even needed. Some of the bolt packs and associated fitting instructions and fitting "neat" to the vehicle are not what I would ever use. Usually most Car Manufacturers accessories that are covered by warranty fit and work well. I would hesitate to use aftermarket garbage, considering most people buying it are floggers and don't even know why they need it.

[@peterantonic6923]

Hi John, very nicely done I must say. All that is really needed is some common sense, but then if common sense was more common, wouldn’t we find it more often? 🤔 You’re right on the money, too many cowboys out there don’t take into consideration what could go wrong in such a recovery, and just jump on the gas pedal and hope for the best.😁👍🇦🇺

[@Croozzen]

Your absolutely spot on with this one John. I have been using my 80 series original tie down points for 25 years. I've been tugged and tugged plenty with them and have not even come close to breaking any of them or the gear. The standard original points are just fine when used properly...👍👍👍

[@GSSurry]

I have driven 4WD professionally in Australia and Africa for many years. I have got stuck a number of times, but a lot less than most because preparation is the key to success. My advice, don't go down the track if the weather can turn against you, don't take the house with you because it will bog you and know how to use the recovery gear before you head off into the Sahara or Tanami desert.

[@ggbogo935]

"profressional 4WD" lmfao

[@Low760]

Personal responsibility!? Nah. Can't do that! Pass the vb/xxxx gold!

[@hoyks1]

The problem I've seen is that when you are stuck and standing at the side of the track with a forlorn look on your face and a snatch strap in your hands, you're at the mercy of a passing vehicle. No matter how much you brief that "It only needs a gentle pull", you might not know you're connected your strap to a dickhead until there is a cloud of black smoke and the tow vehicle disappears at a rate of knots. From that point you're just a passenger. I've seen 'rated' recovery points tear the front left shock tower out of an R50 Pathfinder. The add on tow points were solid, the attached vehicle... not so much.

[@ronnohall2380]

I agree with most of what’s been said on this video, with the exception of being ok with using a tow ball for recovery. WTF!!! It may be ok to use it for a simple light recovery not on sand, However, you may have the best intentions to recover gently but there’s always 2 people involved in a vehicle to vehicle recovery, so ask yourself are you prepared to place your life in another’s hands? because they turn into cannon balls “Dude” if the general public starts to think that it’s ok to do then that’s a bad outcome, and sorry John, it happens a lot more regularly than you think. I’ve taken plenty of beginners off-road that do not understand the danger of tow ball + snatch strap recovery the first thing most newbies will do is go buy a snatch strap from Anaconda and a set of boards and that’s about it. So using your profile to disseminate an obviously dangerous practice is very irresponsible.

[@fatplumber3887]

I tried to pull out a bogged truck with a bobcat a few years ago. The 10 ton snatch strap broke off the back of the machine and punched a giant hole in the front of the truck. This shits no joke

[@lexicase8805]

5:06 my girl not only encourages me to buy things i like, she gives me the money to do so ❤ i consider myself very lucky

[@12jazion]

Recovery points? Around here we just connect to anything easily accessible and drag them out. Wheel spokes are a favorite connection point for the tow truck drivers and tow balls if it's a truck with a hitch. Control arms and rear axles are next on the list then comes motor mounts and subframes and if its a real bad situation they just roll down the windows and loop the strap thru the vehicle. I saw one truck or ute as you upside down people would call it get folded in half when they were pulling it out of a lake, vehicles don't always look the same when the tow truck guys get done with them.

[@OBSCUR767]

On '21 triton/L200, on LHD vehicle at least, the front right hand hook is for tie-down, the front left hand hook is for towing/recovery. It's in the manual, they seem pretty insistent on this.

[@aslkdfjhg]

I have no idea how these new Vlogers with their Unimogs are going to get unstuck if they get bogged on the beach.

[@JohnSmith-pl2bk]

Hopefully by winching themselves out with the help of a great ground anchor?

[@drtone]

Tip: recovery boards (especially the half size) work great, if not better, as a shovel when high sided in sand ;) they scoop more sand per scoop and can be held in unlimited flexible positions positions to get awkward access than the shovel handle. Still need shovel to wack zombies.

[@ianbrowne9304]

so very well explained 👏👏👌--- a little common duckin' sense and standard 4be will go further than most need to . in fact a 2wd goes further than a dummy driven modified 4wd. IMO; 4x4 mod marketing has become a billion dollar scam ! Idiots have so called "have to have" mods because those mods will often make a really sensible person do really idiotic stuff like get bogged just use those mods and justify to the little lady the money was a great investment .

[@chrisforgan731]

exactly.

[@timlarcombe6831]

Static and dynamic loading. Mine winder ropes have a static safety of 6 -1, if the converaynce hangs up in the shaft and a truck load of slack rope pays out, and the conveyance decides to free itself in the shaft with all that slack rope, its snap at the winder drum and its never good let alone if its man riding conveyance

[@patricksheringham5965]

Greetings from the UK, Would be really interested in your thoughts on the INEOS GRENADIER, I'm really quite impressed by it and the quality of the components, there's some good KZbin content out there from here in the UK and there in S'tralia but would like to hear your views from Dingo piss creek! Sorry if you've already done one and I've missed it 👍

[@dustyfarmer]

The new Suzuki Jimny has this massive tie down point hanging down from the front of its chassis that is just asking for a high speed snatch recovery or slow speed rock impact to bend it and its chassis / mounting point into the statutory write-off realm.

[@graemegrieve1953]

All I’ve done to my V6 Ranger is good quality A/T tyres and heavier suspension because with stock springs I was riding close to the bump stops when towing with some gear in the tub. Two things I DIDN’T fit were rated recovery points or a bull bar. I’ll do everything to reduce recovery load (boards & shovel) and from my really basic engineering study which was only an Associate Diploma I alway remember F=MA hence won’t fit a bull bar. Thanks for another great video…

[@SuperchargedSupercharged]

It is always better when you run out of vehicle, before you run out of skill.

[@madlucio70]

Thank you for the O-Light information videos. I recently received my Warrior 2 mini and it is seriously fantastic.

[@grahammcgrath6453]

Excellent advice as always JoHn.

[@Whiltshire_Staysharp]

Videos on topics like this are delicious yet spicy, likely to cause IBS in some.

[@davidvincent2051]

As a dedicated piss creakien I've always driven early model Patrols, but a few years back I bought a Navara and I loved the fact I had to really learn to drive a 4wd because if I got the line wrong in that I got stuck.

[@ghs7714]

Nice gay t-shirt John!!! From Movie world?

[@bbqcrew1]

A lot of recovery points are mounted to holes that are not specifically designed for the purpose. Furthermore the joint is often not a proper friction joint due to poor fit of the mating surfaces, meaning the bolts are acting in shear. So what is actually meant by rated? The recovery plate? Certainly not the connection point. By my calculations quite a few of the tow points on 4wds that I have looked at are capable of withstanding a pretty high pulling force. You can do the calculations based on the metal in the hoops and the welds used. From memory on a Prado it came out at well north of 4t per hoop. I know which I would put my money on. Good luck persuading the numpties seduced by clever marketing and bright yellow/red paint.

[@boilermaker1337]

That bright red paint adds at least 1t of capacity and the yellow approx. 2t. It's a lot like the top speed increase of 10-20 mph for red painted brake calipers. You can do the calculation, but you have to make some (hopefully conservative) assumptions about the ultimate tensile strength of the material, and whether the geometry gives rise to any substantial stress concentrations, etc. Stress calculations in the hands of the idiot can be pretty iffy. I did such calculations in industry, and I've seen some pretty dodgy analyses.

[@bbqcrew1]

​@@boilermaker1337 not sure of your point. As a mechanical engineer with quite a few years in the game I'll stand by my calculations. BTW, the tow points involve a lot more assumptions, but I won't waste my breath.

[@boilermaker1337]

@@bbqcrew1 I wasn't aiming my comment at you or at anyone else who has the background to do the calculations right -- quite the opposite. Since you do have experience as an ME, I'm sure you know it's all too easy to misunderstand (for example) the nature of the loads induced on individual components. Sorry, if it seemed like my response was a dig aimed at you personally.

[@bbqcrew1]

​@@boilermaker1337 thanks mate, I read it the wrong way.

[@davidpickard9393]

Here in the UK the Post person keeps dropping elastic bands. Would it OK to use several of these bands to recover a 2 ton LR

[@dinosshed]

I wonder what the Governor General of D.P. Creek will have to say about all this...? He'd probably agree after having it laid out for all lamens.

[@LV-FOURTWENTYSIX]

My pet hate is using the towball as a recovey point. Im in rural NSW, We had 2 separate people killed last year by doing this. 1 was a bloke and his mate another was a father and son on a farm. Stay safe people.

[@Chris_the_Muso]

What's the mechanism though? You can't break it, unless there's something really wrong with it already. What you don't do is just drop a snatch strap or shackle over the ball, that's a recipe for disaster and I have seen even smart people make that mistake.

[@eaudedogue]

That's four people.

[@krissteel4074]

@@Chris_the_Muso Think of a very, very big slingshot with about 2000kg of force behind it and a towball sized projectile

[@LV-FOURTWENTYSIX]

@@Chris_the_Muso the 2 young fellas were 4x4ing, snatch strap over the ball trying to pull his mate out backwards, ball broke. The father and son was trying to pull a bogged harvester out with a chain, chain broke went through the back window and killed the son trying to pull the father out.

[@Rollin8.0]

​@@LV-FOURTWENTYSIXthey must have been pretty damn rough to break a towball, they're literally designed for towing.

[@johnmollet2637]

Not exact sure how I'd feel about Celine Dion in my lantern... Love your humor, have a great day.

[@kadmow]

yep, as with much to do with human behaviours, most of the problem lies in the software - AvE has some great sayings regarding these "features" of humanity - there are places, simply not to "do It". - A modern "adamant" obsession with soft shackles at every instance - they make sense for "downstream gear" - ie. connecting buts to other bits in the middle, but for the anchor point on the vehicle, if the shackle lets go (ie. separates from the vehicle, probably with another significant lump of steel connected), there must have been some hardcore mistakes made - for all the holes to line up and then cause a casualty.. - doing a big job with any non solid tow hitches - the ones that get shredded are the light duty SHS varieties (or some skookum homemade piece of trash.)

[@bigjay875]

Às the kids in my area say when stuck in the peat bogs say, pin it to win it! Ye ha! I've seen frames riped and cable shredded, ease in to it you dumb donkey kids. Lol we were all young once. But it is common sense for all kids that drive 4x4 get behind trees rocks other trucks as far away as possible from the action. Good luck all and understand the equipment you carry with you

[@bigjay875]

There's much to be said to follow best practice procedures young or old

[@cjjoe2385]

I think it’s best to listen to a responsible and experienced 4wd journalist such as Robert Pepper when you want advice about 4wding. How about discourage everyone from using the tow ball at all times for recovery. You disappoint again when it comes to dingo piss matters.

[@AutoExpertJC]

How about being realistic? Too hard?

[@cjjoe2385]

As you pointed out John, you don’t know the loads of a recovery. Your idea of a light recovery could be very different from the next person. The responsible thing to say would be just to never consider a tow ball under any circumstances.

[@10burna10]

@@cjjoe2385 Can't post a link. Google "Robert Pepper rated recovery points" and report back.

[@FlakeyPM]

@@cjjoe2385 No, I think the responsible thing is to never use a snatch strap on a towball. I hate snatch straps, a straight tow strap with a normal pull is always a safer option.

[@cjjoe2385]

I stated never use the tow ball. Better not to even use it for a straight pull. My first go to’s are a shovel, recovery boards, winch. Snatch is last resort and only of rated recovery points. I’ll walk away from a snatch if recovery points are not sufficient.

[@davidbrayshaw3529]

I've been hit in the head by two tow balls, three tow hitches, a bull bar and an axle housing. Didn't get hurt but, cuz I was wearin' me lucky Akubra each and every time. Only recovery that's ever gone wrong in my time was when me mates dog nicked the bacon out of the esky one night when we's were on the Bundie cans. Had to have another couple of Bundies to get me out of that one.

[@samrodian919]

Land Rover call the tie down points just that Tie Down points. And stress they are Never to be used as a means of towing the vehicle. I used to belong to a Land Rover club here in the UK and we held " Trials" every month. This consisted of one or two members the day before a trial setting out the nine or ten " courses" of ten gates through which everyone had to drive without stopping your score stared at ten and went down until you failed by hitting the gate or stopping. So if you went through to the ten gate you scored zero. When setting the courses, you had to make use of the terrain to make it as difficult as you could after about gate 5 lol after that well the more devious you could be the better! Water runs, gates at the top of an almost impossible near vertical bank and the easiest of all the cross axle, stopping the vehicle in its tracks 4 WD or not lol this gives the sort of idea of what we were doing, The only thing was each individual course HAD to have been driven by those who set it up. Some of the time snatch recovery had to be used , (no digging allowed as it altered the course for the following competitors) we never used kinetic straps as it was deemed to be a very dangerous operation. Generally though we would use two or three vehicles linked together to pull stuck Landies out without using the snatch method, but it was used if there were no room for two or three pulling vehicles to line up as most of our trial sites were in woods so space was tight. Unlike AUStralia! We only ever used winches if it were on the vehicle that was stuck and it was a class1 ( heavily modified " Land Rover based special ( chassis, engine and drive train all LR based). My own special had a front crossmember made of two C shaped RSJ's welded together ending up about 150 x 150mm to form a box and side plates of 150x 400 x 8 mm plate welded and reinforced tubing for bolts going through the chassis rails. D ring recovery points were on welded plates and bolted right through the 150 x 150 box on top of the welds. Belt and braces was me. Probably over the top but it never gave way and we all had twenty tonne ropes or strops as towing straps. Only once did I see a badly fitted recovery point fail and that was due to poor welding. The strap and shackle went straight through the back windscreen if a Discovery I fortunately the strop was short enough to stop the shackle injuring the driver. That's why I went belt and braces on my recovery crossmember!

[@clubgus07]

Thanks JC for the tips i also gather a pair of Max Trax or at least one will assist in recovery on unbalanced grounds

[@luckyjim51]

I have a 2017 Ram Promaster 2500. Unibody Bread Truck RV.... There is a screw in tow bolt that comes with the van. it has been suggested that its just screwed into sheet metal, hard to see? They also suggested there is a big hole in the front swingarm that is a better attachment point. Having this van on a flatbed hauler a couple times. I've noticed they hook to suspension components, rear axle and front tire. I am talking about gentle recovery of a FWD vehicle that weighs 8,000 lbs out of the sand in Dingo piss creek. How secure/robust are suspension components...?

[@jackfrost2146]

Don't bother with suspension based tow-outs. I've seen a few on KZbin where the whole front suspension gets completely torn out of the vehicle!

[@jonsoons]

I must thank you for single-handedly putting Dingo Piss Creek on the map and reviving its economy. We are thinking of erecting a statue to you on the main {and only} drag. Unfortunately it was washed out in a recent rain, a common occurrence.

[@graemejohnson9025]

on a recent, 4x4 trip, with my suzzy.. we came across a hilux stuck in the sand, and a pajero about to snap strap them out.. 3rd attempt.. i bet them i could get it out with suzzy.. so dug holes, installed max trax.. told owner low range 3ed gear.. and? Bingo... little suzzy pulled out a hilux with all the bs camping gear trayback.. big tyres, suspension lift etc.. i travel, fridge, swag, eprb, and 2way radio.. people believe all these you tube channels about touring around australia.. they have sponsors you numbnut, and huge camera crew to rescue the cars..

[@hectorshouse7348]

My Sheila’s got every mod possible…she’ll never get stuck💪

[@jamesdol]

I love the software update, John. Invariably, it mostly lies there. Well said.

[@colinboggust2950]

You Tube did you a real favour. The ad for me was some deer hunters driving around missing easy shots on a a Stag. Getting stuck in mud and having to brake really hard to miss the stag running across the track on the way home. I think it was an ad for mud tyres

[@PenryMMJ]

You can never make a recovery method idiot proof, because a genuine idiot will always do things that no rational person could predict.

[@BlackhawkPilot]

Always try to use at least two points on both vehicles during recovery. Less load at each point and more resistance to going sideways. On a drop hitch always pull from as high on the hitch as possible, i.e. next to the receiver.

[@robpinter5431]

Spot on John, yes the beard stroking blue singlet mob have a reputation to live up to in selling aftermarket bits for their sponsors, not once have I seen them actually stop and do the calculations on recovery loadings...as that is boring....blue singlet fans want noise and lots of exhaust soot. In the Army we had recovery mechanics attached to the RAEME corps, we all took the piss out of them as not being a real trade...but I would not have a hope in doing their recovery course due to the maths involved in determining recovery loads and angles.

[@seventytwo1001000]

I think it's really poor advice to advocate for the use of a tow ball as a recovery point. When time and again it has be shown that tow balls can be a lethal projectile when things go wrong in a recovery.

[@AutoExpertJC]

How many 'time and agains' exactly - it's always 'human dickhead' first.

[@Rollin8.0]

They're literally designed for towing. If you are sensible you shouldn't have an issue.

[@SalvoDan]

@@Rollin8.0it is 50mm tow ball. It is designed to easily attach and remove a 50mm socket that is always horizontal. They aren’t even that good for towing on anything other than flat, paved bitumen roads. It takes a great amount of effort and dickheadedness to attach a shackle, winch hook, winch-rope with thimble or even a soft-shackle or winch rope without a thimble to one. Even if you do put in that extra effort to modify your recovery equipment so that it fits a towball, it will just slide straight off as soon as any slackness is introduced to the pull. Unless your towball is actually a closed pintel hitch, please don’t use it as a recovery point.

[@Rollin8.0]

@@SalvoDan why would you bother with all that malarkey and not just drop the end of a tow rope over the ball? Nobody is suggesting you use it to recover a vehicle that's sitting in mud up to the sills but if you're a little bit stuck and just need a bit of help there is no issue.

[@GarretKrampe]

OMG simple answer is an Aussie BUSH WINCH . Get on with it.

[@franklutton7149]

the average traveller needs to stop watching the popular 4x4 shows..... the attitude of " send it, send it" is all great when you have a financial team behind you..... most of the " send it " tracks are whinch tracks...... why flog your car??... wy flog the track ????.... og thats right, youtoob 4wd shows tell me to send it.... but they do not pay the repair bill..... so maybe whinch it if you want to see it, and have a 4wd at the end.

[@hippiebroughton5564]

Logic and risk management yes and that sense that is no longer common will win every time .

[@Tinman64]

Good info John. Absolutely agree only go as hard as need be and get the shovel out first. Tow balls, never hear anyone say take the tow ball off and put the bow shackle through the tongue. Had a winch on my 75 series for 32 years. Never used it to recover my vehicle , only others. Have mostly used it to drag trees from the tracks. Sick of my recovery gear being damaged by other people so I am reluctant to use it now.

[@jamesaustralian9829]

A recovery is like a plane landing. One you walk away from at the end destination is a good one.

[@ianmoore4327]

Agree,agree agree 👏👏👏. However have you considered that Darwin’s theory on natural selection could be playing a hand in these scenarios? Just sayin

[@gwaeron8630]

Can definitely recommend the Warrior Mini 3! Can't say a bad thing about it. edit: lack of choice in colours; orange or purple would have been nice.

[@franklutton7149]

you had me at "just add dickead"..... but i have to say.... add dash of utoob wanker and a tipple of hurry it up (were losing light for our "round the fire beer up) and yeah.... i think static point start to dread a dynamic pull....

[@neddy1703]

Honestly, in the interest a conservative approach, I think spending a few hundred $$$ on recovery points for your 4wd worth thousands is pretty easy to justify. It just means I can have a little more confidence in knowing the gear is less likely to fail. I'd also say that if you are expecting someone else to recover you and you don't have recovery points, they may not want to do it as they are the ones in the firing line of your tow points (as unlikely as they are to break). It's also much easier to attach recovery gear to recovery points than a tow point.

[@gcdocgcdoc8732]

Some friends that had been drinking Bush Chook thought it would be a good idea to use a rotting (young, small) whale carcass for the oil in it for a fire because of lack of wood (apparently had done it before). They tied a snatch strap to it to drag it up the beach. The carcass was slightly buried and was a bit tough to pull. The carcass tore/broke part way along the animal and the tail went through the rear window and hit the headrest at the back of the drivers seat with some force and made a smelly mess in the car. There is a lesson to be learned here, but im not sure how to express it.

[@alklapaxida850]

A sanity check on recovery points, , it might as well be "bong unblocking with a stoker" the audience may be more receptive , , ,

[@islasdad5775]

Bloody brilliant video mate! Actually refreshing to hear what I've being trying to get across for along time being an AWD owner.

[@BarraCartel]

Obviously not sponsored by ARB 🤣 Finally some commonsense

[@hamishking1381]

Isn't it illegal to carry any sort of knife with you without an acceptable reason??

[@alexmacleod6732]

HEY..DUDE!!! You got a road map to DINGO PISS CREEK????

[@angeloudy]

Ronny Dahl had a video trying to demonstrate why you shouldn't use a tow ball for recovery. However, he proved how strong a tow is. He snatched it with insane speed and still couldn't break it.

[@ggbogo935]

Rohnny Dahl is one of those "dickheads" John mentions in this video

[@adamdixon2251]

Different towballs are made differently. Some may be damaged. I would never risk it

[@DrDezaro]

I’m a fan of designed weakness … never put a bigger shackle on than the hook you are hooking up to.

[@dudless13]

Nicely done John. By way of into - I'm the orange jacket wearing "Yoda" in the photo on your web site. Always nice to hear your reasoned tones, as an instructor, it's a ongoing job to asist people in risk identifying and management. The "hold my beer" moments can be trully frightening. cheers John

[@ScottMurrayBestFamilyCars]

Your course down there in Werribee was fantastic, John. I learned a great deal in just one day. Never knew one could "drive through the brake".

[@dudless13]

Pleased to hear. Something sooo simple but it makes life a bit easier and safer. And you can practice anywhere!

[@DerekIreland0]

Rated recovery point (bit of plate steel) bolted to something that is not rated, so the system is, not rated?

[@ppal64]

Recovery. Depends . You can recover a vehicle using the seat belt anchor point or the pillar. Depends on how much damage you want to do.

[@JohnSmith-pl2bk]

You can use the whole B pillar with both front and rear windows wound down. Just use a rated 10 metre recovery strap with 15 people hanging onto it uphill on the bank across the track while a 4wd in front and a 4wd behind the subject vehicle slipping over the bank on the downhill side is gently pulled out backwards by both 4wds slowly moving backwards keeping the straps taut...and the people on the uphill B pillar strap moving slowly while pulling and keeping the vehicle as vertical as possible. The driver of the subject vehicle enthusiastically shook everyone's hand after he had sat in it during this maneouvre and steered the vehicle back onto the track....

[@michaeldebruij1047]

What's your thoughts on electric motor bikes? Like Surron?

[@axelknutt5065]

Never use a snatch-strap when recovering an electric motor bike from a boghole.

[@michaeldebruij1047]

@@axelknutt5065 I feel like there's a story here...?

[@LM42]

Watch matts off road recovery, learn a lot

[@BubblesTheCat1]

Matt is always sensible, and assess a recovery carefully before doing it. One can learn a lot from him😁👍🏻

[@davidholmes3323]

I had a look at the tow hooks on the front of a current model Toyota Hilux. They are pretty beefy with solid-looking welds.

[@matthewblack5656]

Yep. The tow points on the current Hilux and Prado are super beefy.

[@mcduck5]

It's almost like they know what will happen to them lol

[@sebastianramadan7863]

Attach straps to bumper you say?

[@swedishbob_7315]

oooo what's the new thingumabob in the background... light grey and red thingy... press of sorts😋 Just add... DH lmao

[@ScottMurrayBestFamilyCars]

Coffee grinder.

[@swedishbob_7315]

lmao... could be🤣@@ScottMurrayBestFamilyCars

[@indeepeterhopwood8106]

Tie-down points are for securing cars to boats/trucks/rail. This term has been bastardised

[@AutoExpertJC]

Agreed.

[@sydneymowerandautomotivece4319]

John do you sell this "common sense" stuff?

[@jeffreyhansen6740]

Love your Skunk 🦨 T QUESTION 🙋‍♂️ on other video of towing with Subaru. Is pulling with truck like dodge ram to the same limit or can you pull the camper tail ball or fifth wheel 🛞 FYI Ford Bronco Sport how you say what a piece of Ship Mental midgets plastic cardboard as rock 🪨 guard cheers

[@michelswerissen6544]

Recovery point for my hyundai tucson highlander diesel...........my local pub for a long long Recovery lunch........thinking of dingo piss creekeands beard strokers and such.

[@darrenbooker8144]

I use the pin in the tow ball receiver all the time with a snatch, when I need too, loop it in jobs done, but I'll never in recovery, will I shoot a rocket to Mars and expect great results, good basic info mate👍👍

[@teeanahera8949]

The tow ball has a thicker shaft than the pin and should be stronger, the tow ball is also rated, the pin is not.

[@LTVoyager]

@@teeanahera8949The tow ball is loaded in both shear and bending and is only loaded in single shear. The receiver pin is loaded primarily in shear (there is some bending due to the loose fit of the hitch in the receiver, but it is minor) and in double shear to boot. You really can’t compare the two and even a 1/2” miles steel pin in double shear has nearly 12,000 lbs of capacity.

[@darrenbooker8144]

Also if the pin fails you will most likely not have a crazy projectile coming at you at a rate of knots... Never ever use the toebull ever🤪

[@tonyjourneyman1944]

Back in the 80s as an impressionable idiot I bought a Holden Jackaroo 4wd and loaded it up with every piece of BS that was available, Jerry cans, snorkel, fat tyres, carried snow chains, winch, lights, etc. Then I got it bogged on the backblocks around Robe in SA. Guy who rescued me had a war era Jeep, literally. Charged me $50 If I recall and actually had to fix his own flat tyre during the rescue. A learning opportunity. Also lived in Canada for 15 years, never saw snow chains once despite frequent extreme snow conditions.

[@Tinman64]

Good info John. Absolutely agree only go as hard as need be and get the shovel out first. Tow balls, never hear anyone say take the tow ball off and put the bow shackle through the tongue. Had a winch on my 75 series for 32 years. Never used it to recover my vehicle , only others. Have mostly used it to drag trees from the tracks. Sick of my recovery gear being damaged by other people so I am reluctant to use it now.

[@mcduck5]

While im not promoting doing this sort of insanity i had an interesting experience the other day. I had a scrap metal merchant at my place collecting scrap post natural disaster. His truck (loaded) got stuck. I turned up with my 4x4 mitsi canter to pull him out. He chucked the chain around the tow ball. I said 'thats a dumb shit idea' he said 'it will be fine'. I looked at the angle of pull and figured it would most liekly bury it into hia front grill not the wind screen i figured hes been doing this since before i was born so this will be interesting. The tow ball didnt break. Even tho it was an old cheap low spec tow ball (ratted for 2250kg) with the mighty mitsubishi Canter using both of its horse power with lots of tugging and bouncing and it pulled it out. Eventually!

[@_bodgie]

Ratings are poorly misunderstood it seems. Must people prefer to believe the marketing spin of recovery equipment manufacturers over properly tested and specified living equipment that I prefer to use. You usually get people saying it's only rated to 1 tonne, but they don't understand this is in a lifting capacity with a huge safety margin. Ronny Dahl did some backyard testing of snatchinng from a towball. From memory it was pretty hard to break it. kzbin.info/www/bejne/m3enZXmaZZiVp5o

[@TB-zw7dt]

Trail Mater on KZbin has it figured out. If you like 4WD off road recovery videos you will probably enjoy the content.