4x4 Recovery, How to Winch more Efficiently

[@LockyourHubs4WDing]

What's your best 4x4 recovery tip?

[@dustyfarmer]

My wife would say after a few days rain & give me a tip "Don't go for a drive around the paddock, you know your going to get bogged". "Nah, she'll be right" I'd say......Down to the axles again.

[@LockyourHubs4WDing]

@@dustyfarmer and you never get, "I told you so" afterward either......

[@dustyfarmer]

@@LockyourHubs4WDing My wife just looks at me, she doesn't have to say a word.

[@LockyourHubs4WDing]

@@dustyfarmer hahaha!

[@neutronstorm]

Go out wheeling with a mate

[@4west7]

Great video again guys, unequivocal proof and pure fact as usual 👌

[@LockyourHubs4WDing]

Cheers, thanks mate, appreciate it.

[@davidlovell4390]

Another great video. Well thought out and executed. it could be argued you are the Mark "Larko" Larkham of the bush.....

[@LockyourHubs4WDing]

Larko! I didn't even mention a Watts Linkage! :)

[@davidlovell4390]

@@LockyourHubs4WDing Watts Linkage that’s more Crompo ....

[@LockyourHubs4WDing]

@@davidlovell4390 haha!

[@pen1910]

good stuff .. always learning .. knew the bottom layer had a higher rate but not to that degree

[@LockyourHubs4WDing]

Thanks mate!

[@muzzaball]

Good one Simon, the proof in the pudding again. Thanks mate, and Happy Valentine's Day!!

[@LockyourHubs4WDing]

You too mate, and every Victorian bloke like me who might have forgotten about Valentines, is officially off the hook! Lol

[@kenmuggli4613]

Thank you for the interesting video.

[@LockyourHubs4WDing]

Glad you enjoyed it

[@SirFuseable]

It's exactly what I would expect. Basic physics - more leverage when using the base layer.

[@LockyourHubs4WDing]

Exactly!

[@NJSInstructional]

Great video Simon, well done!

[@LockyourHubs4WDing]

Thanks mate, really like your work as well!

[@MynameisGeoff82]

I'm more impressed that the winch had 3 pulls in in, didn't sound like it was even going to move the 906kg Suk at the beginning 😂

[@LockyourHubs4WDing]

O ye, of little faith! While I prefer the warn in the 'Cruiser, the VRS in the SGV hasn't let me down yet.

[@OverlandPNW]

Just like gears on a bike ! Great video.

[@LockyourHubs4WDing]

Exactly!

[@steveallen1340]

Great Video, very interesting. Been mulling this over for the last half hour, what I can come up with: As the wraps of rope increase the force required to stall the winch reduces but the winch produced more work. Maximum torque of a DC motor is at Zero RPM, we don’t know the maximum power rpm. You gained power as the winch slowed, evidenced by the greater work over the same time. I’m guessing there will be a point where that falls off. The winches must be designed to produce maximum power (but not pulling force) with a few wraps.

[@LockyourHubs4WDing]

With an abundance of torque at low rpm, I don't think the winch would have slowed considerably with the extra load caused by the decrease in mechanical advantage of the extra rope wraps, and we did move further. Though we did see an increase in peak current draw, so there was additional load on the winch motor.

[@Ren-qp5dt]

Another great informative video, great stuff simon , cheers from Wagga Wagga

[@LockyourHubs4WDing]

Glad you liked it mate.

[@eds4wdcamping]

Well the testing says it all thanks for the Video 👍

[@LockyourHubs4WDing]

Glad you liked it mate, let's hope the winches don't get dragged out in March! Nah, just kidding, of course they are :)

[@drewhodge3820]

Great video again.

[@LockyourHubs4WDing]

Thanks mate, appreciate it.

[@neutronstorm]

You didn't take into accout that the distance travelled was longer. When you looked at the comparison. Wouldn't it have been better to calculate an amp hour per metre figure? Agree that keeping current draw down is a good idea, minimises load on everything, battery, gearbox, etc. Also, if you pull extra cable out to get to the bottom layer you can also setup a double line pull with the spare rope fairly easily. Don't most winch spec show you the current draw, line speed and load in the specifications? You could probably work this out without going outside. Thanks for the video.

[@LockyourHubs4WDing]

Ah vs distance travelled would be the best way to calculate efficiency, unfortunatley I don't have an Ah meter that'll handle hundreds of amps. Your right that a double line pull would be doubley beneficial, you would get about double the rope off of the winch and benifet by the mechanical advantage of the pulley setup.

[@neutronstorm]

@@LockyourHubs4WDing I make a google sheet with the calculations done using only the specs from the winch manufacturer. You are correct, the Ah/m is significantly less when using the first wrap and increases linearly. The larger the load, the more significant the increase. docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1M7astudlZwqANEmlZjl0NED8NBsVv25zMCE8JKaD33I/edit?usp=sharing

[@brbadventurer]

This is like splitting hairs, it is nice to know that the bigger the spool the more work the winch is doing, but if you are really stuck, don't you just want to get yourself out and not worry what layer of rope you are winding on? This is like saying if your tires/tyres are smaller they don't weigh as much and a 1/4 tank of gas/petrol weighs less than a full tank of gas so if you don't want to stress your winch use smaller tires/tyres and only have 1/4 tank of gas/petrol on board, reducing weight benefits the pulling power of your winch but over all it is not practical.

[@steveentwistle1873]

I have a modified GV mines 2012 made, thing is I have all the gear except bash plates, I have ordered from Ironman. But cancelled after waiting for 8 months and being told will be a further 4 months , need to know where I can get underbody to suit , any ideas , ps love your work. And thanks to you I got those recovery points too!

[@LockyourHubs4WDing]

I did a video on their installation, on the Brolga website! I've also got the ironman bash plates. Sorry don't know of any others.

[@jackofjr]

That was interesting thanks , what about the same test using a double line pull .

[@LockyourHubs4WDing]

Thanks, that's a great idea. I'll pop it on the list.

[@dustyfarmer]

My winching is dictated by available winching point tree's. Much of the time there is only one tree suitable as an anchor & my WARN winch does an outstanding job of pulling the 3 tonne Landcruiser out of the poo even if it is top or upper layer line pull. Four of those cheap eBay tread or max tracks are also a must have to get your car up & out of the soft ground otherwise you'll just drag yourself through it. Last few years have been off the bogging factor scale here on my place with springs popping up everywhere after soaking rain in the decomposed granite soil.

[@LockyourHubs4WDing]

If you're limited in anchor choice, you could shorten the rope using the daisy chain technique or even better, do a double line pull to get the rope off of the drum. I love the Warn on my 80, it's like an Eveready battery, it just keeps going!

[@dustyfarmer]

@@LockyourHubs4WDing The only thing I find unlimited for choice is my ability to string together every known swear word in one long sentence once I find myself in the middle of a large bog patch. I drive around in the dry & see the huge recovery it took to get back to solid ground, you wouldn't know it to look at it. Some energy company twit once told me "You can't get bogged going up hill".....BULLSHIT! I said.

[@LockyourHubs4WDing]

@@dustyfarmer I've been bogged going uphill, downhill and on the flat. One day my time will come with bogged upside down as well no doubt!

[@dustyfarmer]

@@LockyourHubs4WDing I got majorly bogged not long ago going sideways across a hill with the nose facing uphill while spinning all four wheels madly actually going downhill backwards in low 2nd. A long walk all uphill in the cold rain to get the quadbike & recovery tracks & snow chains.

[@LockyourHubs4WDing]

It never happens on sunny days around lunch!

[@GrumpysBeast]

I suppose it all depends whether you have a conveniently placed tree growing in the right position or you are able to find some other anchor point to tie to either close or the right distance to unwind the winch rope and it would depend on the severity of how bogged you were i guess. If more winch pulling power is needed a snatch block would be handy.

[@LockyourHubs4WDing]

I've used a snatch block primarily to get the rope off of the drum, or as in the video, I used the "daisy chain technique" to shorten the rope.

[@GrumpysBeast]

@@LockyourHubs4WDing I Googled "daisy chain technique" to remind myself of what it looked like and the "definitions" where varied.

[@LockyourHubs4WDing]

@@GrumpysBeast Not sure I've demonstrated it in a video. I'll demonstrate it in the next winching video I do.

[@grahambrooker8261]

There are a lot of unknown variables. Did the car take the exacts same line every time? We’re there any rocks under the tyres? Does the track get steeper the farther up the car goes?

[@LockyourHubs4WDing]

I agree, that's why the star picket was placed on the ground, so we had a consistant starting point for all three tests.

[@me217]

So the motto is... always pull out... Next shot kids appear. Also go the mighty zook.

[@LockyourHubs4WDing]

Hahaha!

[@AdamAbello]

I think the amperage could have gone up due to heat load in the winche from just doing a pull , I don't understand how you got further by winching for the same time this is interesting, I would have like to see another control pull on the first layer again at the end. Great little test mate👍 it looks like the gain in distance is equal to the extra length unrolled from the drum

[@LockyourHubs4WDing]

The extra distance is because after the addtional wrap of rope is placed on the drum, it's effectively a larger diameter and therefore you winch further with every revolution of the winch drum. As long as the load on the winch isn't enough for the extra diameter and therefore leverage to slow down the winch.

[@AdamAbello]

@@LockyourHubs4WDing of cause you have at lest a half inch mechanical advantage on a full drum as apposed to 2 reels in, like the sprockets on a bike, the bigger the sprocket the easier it is to pedal, hence the lower amperage, but the pay-off is less distance ... 👌 loved this great idea

[@Ben3908ABC]

Is it the case where every time you put a layer on the winch, you are effectively shortening the rope between your car and the car on top of the hill - which is why it appears your going that little bit further each time?

[@LockyourHubs4WDing]

When you add a layer of rope on the drum, you're effectively increasing the diameter of the drum, so the circumfrence is also longer, therefore the car travels further for every revolution of the drum.

[@TimsBitsnPieces]

Just curious, what are you doing with the extra winch cable when you are on each layer? I don't see the vehicle at the top any further away or cable on the ground?

[@LockyourHubs4WDing]

We shortened it using the daisy chain method.

[@DeanoGoogleo]

@@LockyourHubs4WDing probably a stupid question but what is the Daisy chain method?

[@ozkite]

Another great video, well done! Maybe look at winch line rate vs load and current when winching at high loads. Example if you use a pulley block to 1/2 the load then most winches will not actually 1/2 in speed. As their load decreases they get more efficient and use less power but the actual winch line rate is faster. The pulley block be will halving the speed but due to the efficiency you will use way less current and get nearly the same speed of actual pull due to increased winch line speed/rotation speed. Have a look at winch speed vs load vs current specs expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/winch-efficiency-line-speed-amperage-and-heat-factor.155105/

[@LockyourHubs4WDing]

I've got a meter coming that'll be able to log voltage and current usage under load. I might give it a crack, thanks for the suggestion

[@cruzinoz8783]

Yep as I thought, as the drum gets bigger , you travel further; same as bigger tyres

[@LockyourHubs4WDing]

Exactly, but the current drawn down by the winch is disproportionately larger.

[@Utah_Mike]

That’s a 👍 from me

[@LockyourHubs4WDing]

Cheers!

[@stanislavshubin3447]

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