Why Is Defender Such a Poor Choice for Adventure? @4xoverland

[@grahamthebaronhesketh.]

Asa tow truck driver I had to pickup a new discovery one time and take it back to the main dealer. The fault was it only went backwards. On arrival at the dealership the guy was in the car with his laptop and by the time I had winched it to the road the car was going forwards under it's own steam again. Software update he said................Say no more.

[@johncunningham4820]

As a Former Tow Operator I have had the Exact Same experience .

[@motioncompensation1544]

The Defender is a perfect choice for adventure. Your trip will be very adventurous for sure.

[@kubenkain7169]

As my friends keep reminding me, owning the landrover product WAS the adventure!

[@moab2312]

Mechanical adventures

[@onetonlandrover]

😅😅😅

[@kubenkain7169]

@@moab2312 and electronic

[@motioncompensation1544]

@@moab2312 With some electronic ones mixed in between and no way to tell the difference

[@IncisalArt]

I am right at 60,000 miles on my 2021 P400. I am a wildlife photographer and I have given this vehicle pure hell and it has been absolutely amazing!!!!! I have owned 3 Range Rovers and this is my first Land Rover. It absolutely the best all around vehicle I’ve ever owned .

[@Shadow_Wraith]

A Range Rover is a Landrover.

[@Joe-kx7bl]

I agree best all around daily I’ve ever had. I did put KO2’s on it to toughen up the look a bit.

[@simono4991]

That's not the sort of comment they want around here 🙂.

[@hammycow26]

Jeremy Clarkson went on Harry's Garage and talked about the doors opening killing the battery on the 2010 Range Rovers they would use as crew cars on Top Gear. For that year model, they introduced the digital gauge cluster, which would do a welcome animation every time the door was opened. The crews were constantly in and out of the cars retrieving film equipment. If I remember rightly, he said it'd only take about 10-15 door openings to kill the battery. A very stupid, very modern problem.

[@k24hybrid]

Wow!!! 👍👍

[@GregsMowing]

Yep not great. Saw that video a few times. The non chinsey grill is the one to have in the right green

[@jimmys6566]

Not true. 15 door openings could never flatten the battery

[@jaime4022]

Why would any amount of door openings kill a battery any way?

[@hammycow26]

@@jaime4022 you’ve got interior lights, headlights, taillights, and welcome lights that activate, cars with proximity keys may be unlocking and locking doors as you approach/leave, many cars activate the fuel pump when the door is unlocked to prime the engine to start, the gauge cluster and infotainment screens turns on in most cars when you open the door, etc.

[@tropical.romance]

“True adventure begins when everything goes wrong“ Yvon Chouinard (Patagonia founder) Therefore, the defender must be the perfect “adventure” vehicle

[@albertdesalvo7273]

Indeed, but not when it goes wrong all the time and at great expense.

[@Veldtian1]

🤣🤣🤣

[@drive-channel1834]

This defender is the perfect vehicle for your next overlanding adventure at the local mall parking lot

[@lelandmize8120]

I’m happy to share my story in detail but in summary: I’m in a loaner because my two month old Defender P400 shut down on the interstate at 75mph and went dead as a hammer. Tow company had to drag it onto the flatbed bc with a dead vehicle “Neutral” doesn’t exist and the jump pack didn’t work. It has been a week and I am still waiting on a solution. It will be out of my fleet immediately once I get it back from the dealer 6 hours away from my home where it failed. This vehicle is the beautiful girl that has inner demons that you wish you never met.

[@scandinavia6271]

Sorry for your bad experience - but this happens for all car brands including Toyotas (read the Toyota stories in this thread). Maybe this “pretty girl” is not for you - but I would not leave her for something like this. It’s a brand new car under warranty.

[@1129DSJ]

@@scandinavia6271 Toyota v Landrover reliability, not even close !!!! I live in Outback Australia and no one drives Landrovers other than to soccer practice 🤣

[@scandinavia6271]

@@1129DSJThe Old soccer mon / mall crawler story again… Please also share how you in AUS have a saying around “if you want to go in the outback bring a Land Rover - if you want to come back again bring a Toyota” - I am frankly tired of these hear say stories from people who never owned an LR. Fact of the matter is: (1) My 2016 RR is the most reliable vehicle I have ever owned (2) In my country LR offers 5 year / 150k km warranty (Toyota only 3 years/100k - their warranty suck big time!)

[@1129DSJ]

@@scandinavia6271 I’ve owned Range Rovers hence why i now own Toyota Landcruisers, you see i just like getting home i guess and also being able to find parts pretty much anywhere. Oh btw I’m an ex Aus Army operator who used many Landrovers all over this country, I’m tired of people who believe Landrovers are anything other than an overpriced Soccer Mom car, but if you’re brave enough to venture into the unknown in one Goodluck as you’re going to need it !!!!!!

[@DeCSSData]

@@scandinavia6271 In my country you have a lifetime warranty for your Toyota if you make the service inspecions by the book at a Toyota dealer...

[@koborkutya7338]

Was never into overlanding but this video made me smile and made my day :) So in line with my thinking. My dad toured Africa a few times and told me car cannot have a technical support there - the car itself IS the technical support. If you can't repair something at the roadside so it keeps on rolling (lousy maybe but still) then you should not dare into the outback with it.

[@johnperry7534]

Good report . From 1992 to 2002 I was responsible for the training of 100 staff of aPolice department to use four wheel drives in the snowy mountains in australia ,and we used non turbo land cruisers and Nissan patrols and in all that time over all those miles using multiple new student drivers over a good 120 cars, in hard conditions and the cars were used 24 hours in the bush and on country roads and highways we had not one breakdown , not one minor glitch, not one failure of any component . I can’t recall any time at all those cars would not start . So why would anyone settle for less in their own car with their own money ?

[@bendgeddes]

Sadly a 300 series is now plagued with bings,bongs, dings and dongs for a multitude of inexplicable reasons. I’d still feel comfortable in the outback with one but tech for the sake of tech is taking over😢.

[@zhamed9587]

@@bendgeddes The LC300 is still fairly new though right? It usually takes a few years to iron out issues.

[@ivanvarykino8202]

Exactly. Just say no to land rover products. Made for posers. I trust nothing less than Lexus/Toyota on and off road.

[@nathankitts1903]

I have a L663 New Defender 110. I take it overlanding, camping and multi day off road adventures. The battery thing is true unfortunately. Having said that, it’s never left me with a dead battery but I try not to lock and unlock the doors often while camping. I don’t think it deserves as much criticism though. Let me explain, I off road pretty hard and broke a front right axle and also ripped out the front right wheel speed sensor. The defender didn’t leave me stranded. I had to drive it off road nearly 2 miles to get it back to a safe location. Hearing the axle clicking around I had my friend who was off roading with me flat tow me with his Jeep on a forest road to get back to a country dirt road that was suitable for a flatbed tow truck to pick me up. I will say there was a weird process we had to go through to get the transmission fully in neutral for flat towing. Not sure why Land Rover has so many warnings about damaging the transmission flat towing, the transmission is a pretty standard 8 speed ZF. I think carrying a scanner is a good idea for any new vehicle. All new vehicles are rolling computers, even the new Ineos Grenadier which boast about simplicity is not in terms of electronics. It has nearly the same amount of computer components as the new Defender. If I’m not mistaken they even have the same 8 speed ZF transmission just different transfer cases, mechanical vs electronic shift for high/low. I knew what I was getting when I bought it and wouldn’t trade it for any other 4x4 on the market. It is more complex than some others but if you know how it works and what components to maintain and can accept some of the quirks it’s an amazing 4x4 that can take you anywhere. Just my opinion of course and experience with the L663.

[@daveg4963]

So you had to get rescued by a Jeep. Right on!

[@4xoverland]

Hello. It's me. 'Conspiracy theory' can be applied to anything one would prefer not to believe. In that world evidence is no longer valid. "All his videos are like this". So my successfully taking a 47 year old Range Rover across the Canning Stock Route was also a conspiracy theory? Okay. Good luck, fella.

[@10007will]

Well said. Simply referring to every issue and not mentioning every success shows that this is written by someone who has an agenda. There is no balanced reporting here. All click bate ....

[@Skidaddl]

Human beings will go to great lengths to justify their purchase decisions.

[@ianweal3081]

Have to add, I'd gladly tour in one if I could, but as you say, know your vehicle. Start by reading the manual cover to cover for some insight on what you have just acquired, then drive it. The wondrous Andrew has just ordered a new (1980 4 cylinder Prado 4 cylinder auto) Troopie to tour in. Yes, Toyota successfully reproduce & sell a 40 year vehicle to Land Cruiser fanatic. 😂😂😂 Fatigue from driving them has affected his judgement. Once you own that auto Prado, (sorry Troopie) and read the hand manual you'll also discover you can't tow it either. Place it in neutral & tow it, haha not likely. You'll need to remove rear drive shaft prior to towing it. Any automatic I've owned, the manuals says, "Do Not Tow in Neutral" I've not looked into the Defender drive yet, but I'm certain I'd find a way around it, removing drive shafts, front & rear ? Yes Andrew, you did report how good it was, but once any vehicle fails it becomes a headache, especially in the hands of unknowing, not just L/R product. Christ, a novice could fail on the plenty highway in a Hyundai and have no idea how to recover it neither, it's not just a L/R issue.

[@Conan3145]

Another beautiful, expensive and flawed LR. My dad told me: “A Landrover will get you where you want to go in Australia, but if you want to get back you will need a Toyota”. No change in LR fundamentals in 30 years. I bought a new Discovery, loved it, was so lucky to trade it before too many $$$ surprises. A solid review.

[@nunyabidness3075]

Yes, everyone’s dad said that. I know because the same story comes up every time Rover reliability is discussed.

[@babushkaboi5618]

@@nunyabidness3075 😂

[@abeedihsan8263]

Hahaha......I like the comment

[@Jaico2024trd]

😂😂

[@scandinavia6271]

Luckily the World moved on since your dad - so did LR. In my experience they are indeed reliable.

[@theotherbrad5650]

The Defender I drove had error messages and a very glitchy center screen on the test drive. I purchased a TRD Off Road Premium 4Runner instead and I friggin' love it!

[@yeti5631]

Reminds me of a local farmer who spent £94000 on a Range Rover but only used it at the weekends, spending the working week running around in his old Trooper 3.1. The Range Rover would run its battery down during the week and not start when he wanted to use it. After several returns to the LR dealer he was told to "you have to drive it more often" so he paid a further £300 to have a spare battery with a changeover switch fitted in the rear to ensure that he always had power to start..................LR then told him he had invalidated his warranty.

[@stop_lying_bro]

Well, LR is right. Modern vehicles are packed with electronics and need to be driven. By modifying the vehicle he technically did void his warranty. This happens to other brands as well.

[@Arda86ca]

​@@stop_lying_bro i left a lexus lx570 parked in the garage for 2 months. It started right up. It is also a modern luxury SUV

[@BubblesTheCat1]

​@@Arda86caBut it's made by a proper car company. It's not a Land Rover or BMW piece of shit😅😁👍🏻

[@stop_lying_bro]

@@Arda86ca That Lexus doesn't have near as many modules running it as a new Defender or even Range Rover. There are Tons! Thus why Toyota can get away with reliability. They use super old drivetrains and okay electronics that aren't complex. They aren't even in the same class of vehicles though even though they are commonly cross shopped.

[@dfloper]

No Lexus is engineered by the best of the best of University graduates. Toyota has proper quality controls in place. Jaguar Land Rover are just scammers who sell overprice cars, not properly designed or tested, but full with electronic gizmos, leather, lush paint to make them appear luxurious. In other words Jaguar Land Rover will concentrate mostly on the outside, and the cabin, the engineering is an afterthought. Lexus will concentrate on the whole car with emphasis on reliability. In other words to put it simply. The Lexus engine and drive-train is will outlast many Land-rover engines and gearboxes. Vote with your wallet. @@stop_lying_bro

[@CHAGrady]

Andrew absolutely love your enthusiasm about this !! Also having a chuckle as us real Defender owners know fine well, it’s a Pretender, not a defender. Keep em coming !!

[@villadazzler]

I am 2.5 yrs and 70k km in to my MY21 110 Defender. It's a weapon both on and off road. In that time, I've drained the battery 4 times while camping beside the vehicle before I worked out what the issue was. Disable keyless entry and remember to disconnect your Bluetooth OBD scan tool and you will never have a battery drain issue, no matter how many times you open the doors. If you want to be super sure, press and hold the light switch to disable cabin lights, and only open the barn door when grabbing your beers. This doesn't fire up the pivi pro computer. If you can't forgo the convenience, carry a 1500A lithium jump starter.

[@landrover-ib7wo]

Yawn

[@hitawny]

I should have read your comment before my trip to Acadia NP last month, 😂

[@jason2174]

I love this dudes delivery so much.

[@klimraamkosie]

The exact same thing happens with my 2015 Subaru Outback. We'd be camping for 2 days in and out of the car (fridge was in there) and then dead. I finally figured out two hacks. 1. Pull the key proximity sensor fuse when I'm going to be at a camp site. 2. When the rear hatch is open (fridge, food, clothes access), put a carabiner through the hatch lock as it's coming down to make it think the car is closed so that the lights won't stay on. And this car has LEDs inside, not power hungry. But that proximity sensor just chewed threw the battery. Thank goodness I had a lithium battery being charged off of solar that I could use to trickle charge a jump starter that eventually got the car going again (and I didn't turn it off that day...) We were in Big Bend State Park (in West Texas) with the closest ranger house 45 minute drive way that week but the 3 month old survived just fine. I now have a Prado (Lexus GX).

[@leonjoffe6380]

As someone who owned a 2001 TD5 and travelled 160000km with my wife through 9 African countries and over some of the toughest roads and terrains imaginable, often without seeing another vehicle for hours, I am most saddened that Landrover gave the name Dedender to their new beautiful electronic suburban prestige car. It demeans the name, and is a disgusting advertising stunt. The True Defenser was and always will be identified with the greatest overland car ever designed and built (with apologies to my Landcruiser friends 😊

[@victorsjournal8346]

I love the ending. Been looking for a comprehensive explanation on the performance of the 'New Defender ' and its capability off road and it goes without saying I will stick to my 300tdi

[@onetonlandrover]

Hear hear!

[@oldcargeezer]

Have you actually driven the new Defender?

[@onetonlandrover]

@@oldcargeezer What relevance is that? I could list many, many cars/vehicles that are head and shoulders above the new Defender. It's not all about how it drives. Why are we only allowed to dislike cars we have driven? I've never driven a Porsche. I don't want to. I don't like them. I don't like the style or the image. Ditto the new Defender and in all honesty, everything else LR currently produces.

[@oldcargeezer]

@@onetonlandrover You can't make an informed judgement on a vehicle you've not even driven. l've done around 150,000 miles in the old Defenders, and around 70,000 miles in new Defender How do you know a vehicle is better than the Defender when you've never driven one. Unless you mean you prefer the looks (l don't like Porsches although l've owned one) l prefer Ferrari, probably because l like the looks more. (l've also owned one of those) But of course if you've got a thing against Land Rover you will be biased against anything they produce. What do you think of the lneos Grenadier? l've driven one and love it. lf it wasn't so expensive l would swap my Defender for one. ls it better than the Defender? lt depends on what you plan to do with it. As a Mall Cruiser, no. As an Overlander, l would say definitely.

[@bogdanhh]

But Andrew, I had a similar issue with the new Isuzu d-max ;). Opening/closing the door, for some reason, killed the battery. It's not a Defender issue, it's a car with lots of electronics issues. Yes, the d-max is full - leather and a gazzilion of sensors.

[@patricklawrence2755]

I owned a LR Discovery (95) model...with the center lockers, full time 4WD...i loved it. it was a tank. and then it started to break, and kept breaking across 3 years. And no, i didnt get a Land Cruiser, but i did get a 4Runner (a modern day LC60)...and its run for the past 10yrs, off road, on road, snow, ice, mud, stuck, unstuck, with the only problem being my remote lock actuators dont work anymore. I dont know what the LR designers, engineers, and builders are doing, but they miss the mark when it comes to building an adventure vehicle that is actually tough in any way.

[@zalllon]

I agree with this. As someone who is looking at getting a vehicle that I could use for some off-road adventure, knowing that I also have to live with it as my daily driver, I initially was looking at a jeep gladiator back in January 2022. Locally, in Toronto, Canada area, the pricing back then was, not just high due to raised MSRP call Mom, but the additional pricing layered in by dealers. I couldn’t justify spending almost 80 grand. So I started looking at other products both new and used, and the discovery is one of them, also looking at Toyota 4Runner and Ford bronco. Ford bronco was also pretty expensive with the reduced supply, and then, of course, some issues with build quality. The defender looked really good on paper and in person, but a couple of neighbours who have them had some initial quality issues. Only one of those two neighbours actually was setting up to do offloading, in which he experienced getting stuck, which I can’t recall if it was a an electrical issue or a transmission issue. The other neighbour that never took it off Roading, she never had any issues until more recently in which it seem to be an electrical issue. I ended up getting a Toyota 4Runner, which I actually got below MSRP, but I just had to wait six months to get it. I have now had it a year, and has done some mild off routing, and have done quite a bit of modifications on it, with most of the modifications happening in the last five months. It has been a great daily driver, even with the added, weight and larger tires. While it hasn’t been the greatest on gas compared to the competition, the overall savings on buying the vehicle, even with my added modifications, I’m still ahead.

[@79series]

The reason there has not been any broken down in the out back is due to the fact no one takes them to the outback. Just like you don't see any lions in the Aussie out back due to the fact....... we don't have lions in the outback.

[@paulcallaghan4287]

What a stupid comment....! I've had mine in the outback, 2 years, 57000klms absolutely no issues and I have towed a caravan for most of this 57000klms

[@paulelledge8977]

​@@BubblesTheCat1there are several KZbin channels of people taking their Defenders in the back country.

[@sbGOM]

@paulcallaghan4287 this whole video is an invitation to make stupid comments.

[@paulcallaghan4287]

@@sbGOM Oh, well that's true... Video by someone who has never owed one. Almost like he has a problem rather than reporting on a genuine issue

[@jerrymyahzcat]

I take my Discovery Sport (Petrol) into the Outback. 202,000km on it.

[@larrycitra300]

As a Defender 110 owner I totally agree with you! I experienced the “opening the doors to many times” scenario while packing it for a trip … what were they thinking??? It has been towed to the dealership on 2 occasions because it wouldn’t steer (this requires a ferry ride form the Island I live on) Luckily it was in my driveway both times. This condition was diagnosed as a low battery. Apparently you can disconnect the negative terminal, wait for a bit, then reconnect effectively rebooting the computer. I carry a 10 mm wrench in the glove box now but haven’t had the need to try it. Oh, and if you have the passenger seat too far back and it electric you would have to physically remove the seat to get at the negative terminal … try that out in the bush!!! Latest firm ware update finally fixed the entertainment system so that you no longer have to be in Kansas, wearing red shoes and clicking your heals together to get it to work properly, but now the windscreen wipers come on for 1 swipe every time you open and close a door …. Arrrrh ???? As you say, lovely ride, wonderful interior, great tow vehicle, quiet and powerful, BUT, as I told the dealership “I wouldn’t trust this vehicle across my lawn let alone the Gobi desert. Toyota looks good except for the 2 WD/4 WD system … I really prefer the All-Wheel drive system 😩

[@moloono1]

Get a Lexus GX or LX or Land Cruiser. All those has full-time 4wd

[@fkmbmw]

New Lexus GX and all Landcruiser have an all wheel drive, not part time

[@beyondthehorizon27]

Calling flat battery breakdown is bit to much i would say. You can (and most of the people should) buy Gap II tool £300 and you can read clear faults, adjust and service your car. There is nothing special, no laptop just tool and your phone. Plus with xlifter you have benefit of extra variability with different heights and selfleveling for sleeping. And as an extra it has ABS failure recovery mode so vehicle will not lower itself and you can get back home. And in the worst case scenario you can always put shredder valve on line and pump up your suspension. Every modern car is more electric sensitive and every car will drain battery in some time, agree that some faster some slower. But pls don’t complain that you need scan gauge (which will help you and pay itself in couple of moths) when you are spending thousands of $$$$ for other accessory. And remember even your unbeatable Toyota had some failures… transmission unable to engage 4wd etc… It is not onlyabout preparing the vehicle but also about preparing yourself ( if you don’t know how things works even small brakes pads failure or wheel bearing failure can stop you)

[@EWBnery]

I'm totally agree. I owned a old Defender 90 year 2000 and recently drove the new Defender . They are completely different animals, not just a modernized version. Great video.

[@ClipsByMiles]

The "transmission park release" is a separate lever under the bonnet of the car - it physically disconnects the park brake from the electronic motor that's used to engage it, giving you unlimited time to move the car. The overall point still stands though - the car simply isn't built to be used in a rugged environment where things WILL fail - the car needs to continue to function in a reduced capacity when this happens, not turn into a paperweight. Edit - WAIT, apparently this may only apply up until MY22 when they might have removed it? It's possibly become a release via software: ignition on but don't start the car, hold brake pedal with left foot, then with your other foot press the accelerator for one second, off the accelerator for a second, then back on the accelerator until a service mode message appears on the dash. How pathetically hopeless :( What are you supposed to do when your car is dead?

[@lanceislateagain]

"What are you supposed to do when your car is dead?" "Buy another one." - Land Rover, probably.

[@safetysandals]

In theory, if it's completely dead (or you disconnected the battery) the handbrake can't activate, since there's no power going to it. This does raise the issue of if you do want the parking brake on while there's no power, but...

[@JimYeats]

That second part in your edit is the instructions for the electronic parking brake. Not the transmission release mechanism. I think you would only need to do that if you had activated it already and needed to deactivate.

[@keyboarddancers7751]

Good grief; by the time you'd worked all that out, you'd've used up all your food and water!

[@markswanson2716]

Quite frankly, these tales mean the new defender is not only not suitable for the CSR, it could be considered dangerous. Not a place to be stranded. I am a Landy man and have been for 40 years, currently have a D2 Td5, there is always something to fix but it's awesome and while it is a complicated beast, little bit computerised, it is largely mechanical and can be fixed. Not the new defender. The blokes at the top of JLR are Muppets and have blown the opportunity to reinvent the defender in a way that may never happen again. It is so disappointing and a kick in the guts for old faithfuls.

[@catchawakeup6411]

Deep down all Toyota fan boys wants a Defender. Just one of those things you cannot deny!

[@4xoverland]

sounds like wishful thinking on the part of Defender owners. Maybe they need something to cheer them up.

[@gippy6105]

Not sticking up for Defender but i was informed on a recent trip to Oodnadatta they wont touch any newish computerized vehicle no matter the brand too difficult to repair out in the back blocks.

[@seanlander9321]

Exactly.

[@dermotwallace5533]

With utmost gratitude, thank you, Sir. You just saved me.

[@j.bin_genex1927]

same here haha

[@mikehogan9265]

Back in the 70's I had a Series 2 that I called my hobby car. Do a trip from Durban to Sodwana Bay to go diving for a long weekend and spend the following weekend repairing it. Since then I have only had Japanese four wheel drives and I have never had a mechanical breakdown despite multiple trips off road around Queensland.

[@pincermovement72]

To be fair I think the new defender is a massive success , Land Rover realised that there are more people who want to pretend than do , that is why they are selling so many . It’s a shame because they had a lot of loyal customers who wanted to stay with the brand , perhaps in the future they will use the platform to produce a none electrical fully old school one .

[@reabers]

Exactly! They could have made something that us classic defender enthusiasts would have been scrambling to buy, but it wouldn't have made economic sense. As much as I love slinging dung on the pretender, I have to admit that it's been a massive success in that it's appealing to a much larger demographic than the real defender did.

[@leangrypoulet7523]

It's only a success in the 'poaching sense'. If you strip out sales in the 'all new' American market (which they would have got with any all-new vehicle anyway) then Defender sales figures are commensurate with drops in sales for the Disco and the RRS. Same customer base, (drug dealer, footballer or wide-boy Instagram influencer and some families), but almost no new customers from those outside the Green Oval stable. You'll get some of the said 'drug dealers, footballers or wide-boy Instagram influencers' who might have driven G-wagens or SQ7s cross-decking (if they're really stupid and have no understanding of LR reliability issues), but most sales are Defender poaching from other model lines. Indeed, look at sales of the Disco 5 and they're almost non-existent because the Defender, which is in effect a Disco 6, has taken them all. And if they ever did a survey of previous classic Defender owners, whether commercial, fleet, military or indeed private, and see how many of them are buying the ND, and I am sure the figures would be minuscule, how can that be a success? Imagine what business a properly utilitarian Defender could have given them. Instead of having a client buying one car to park outside the house in the heart of the jungle, Epping, they could have had clients asking for hundreds. But Land Rover would never have the balls to do that survey. And as I write all this, the car that the new Defender should have been (looks, ability, simplicity, price point etc), has just come to market thanks to Toyota. The new Land Cruiser has made the ND look and be dated in just 4 years. And with the successes of other recent launches, such as the Bronco and new G-Wagen, (where a vehicle can still have off-road purpose, still look retro, still be simple, still be utilitarian, still be modifiable, and all whilst not costing too much), it begs the question why they did it. They could have swept away all comers if they'd launched the ND as the Disco 6 AND launched a proper Defender replacement as Toyota just have with the LC. LR must secretly be kicking themselves or Gerry.....

[@IMLYINGISWEAR]

How many defenders have broken down in the outback? I was recently on a big trip across the top of Arnhem Land and came across my first Defender in the wild... and believe it or not, it was broken. The vehicle was less than 6 months old and was in limp mode 250km on gravel from the nearest fuel (Maningrida).

[@lostandnotfound927]

As a vehicle detailer I can confirm Defenders constantly go flat within 1 hour of working on them with doors open.

[@oldcargeezer]

Mine doesn't The battery is 100Ah so to cause a battery depletion in one hour the vehicle would have to draw over 50A assuming the battery isn't fully charged. lf it was fully charged you'd have to draw over 90A to run it down in an hour.

[@jasontait8768]

As an owner of a 2023 Defender I can confirm that my vehicle does not go flat in one hour with doors open

[@avyeal]

lmao i hand detail my '23 90 V8 and leave the doors open for 2-3 hours at a time and can confirm this does NOT happen

[@AndyP4X]

Imagine making something up lmao.

[@peterthomas8652]

You can turn the lights off by pressing the interior Lighs for 10 sec, the interior light will not come on again until you press it again.

[@alanmilton8056]

Ah, Andrew, technology is wonderful when it works. As our old South African mechanic said about our 30 year old Disco 1, you can fix it with a hammer & coat hanger ! Still going strong. By the way check out, if not already, the Harry's Garage/Clarkson episode.

[@goldenboyi1989]

The Truth will hurt many but honesty is the best policy. Andrew always slices it will-even though he said the Prado is Ugly and yet drives a troop carrier which is uglier.But he has so valid points about the defender even thought the new one was made for soccer mums and the flashy hollywood types who just like the car for prestige and as a show off device

[@stefanvanhees8364]

Not many people can rant in such a professional way. Keep doing that!

[@Discovery_Dad]

I think you need to read the Toyota LC-70 (Troopy) manual as well. Whilst it doesn't use warnings as scary as those used by Land Rover, the pictures clearly show that the recommended method of towing for the LC-70 is to have something under it's wheels if a flatbed recovery isn't available. *IF* you have to tow with the vehicle on the ground, it clearly states this should ONLY be done on a hard surface for a short distance. And that all the items that are likely to mean you needed a tow in the first place are in good condition. (p215) OK, the LC-70 has a manual transmission, but they still recommend being in neutral and H2 to avoid damage. If any of the drive train is damaged it clearly recommends use of a dolly or preferably flatbed recovery truck. So, if you stick to both Land Rover and Toyota's recommendations, both are unsuitable for 'proper' adventures as both manufacturers only 'support' towing in certain limited scenarios. On a modern vehicle like the Defender, something like the Gap IID tool is a must carry item. You don't need a laptop, just your smartphone which is almost certainly going to be present. Whilst the Defender (and many other modern vehicles) clearly have power draw issues, for overlanding there is normally an additional leisure battery installed, and you would presumably have some kind of jump start capability. Land Rover could & should develop a camping mode for the car that disables all auto-start of various items without pressing the start button, and optionally allow you to configure what lights come on when a door is opened. Having one is probably useful. That would allow frequent door opening without huge battery drain.

[@FH-km5pe]

Exactly. My Discovery 3 used to give me all sorts of phantom electronic gremlins. (nothing the GAP tool couldn't deal with easily) Once I added a second battery and solar, they all went away. I only added the second battery and the solar panel to run my fridge but both batteries are kept in a voltage range that the CPU's like, and I haven't had any issues for 2ish years.

[@chaquisa1]

Exactly !!!@@FH-km5pe

[@thewonderfrog]

Its been 42 years since my last vehicle had a break down. 41 years ago i bought a land cruiser.

[@stul5000]

Poking bears this week 🤣🤣 100% your right though, as a master tech who's spent 16 years in roadside breakdown, there's nothing easy about dealing with Landover when they go wrong, and when trying to "bush fix" there is a constant risk of causing issues elsewhere, unless you have the new parts available, its very hard to keep them going. Can't think of a worse companion for a full expedition. On the plus side the park brake release is easy to activate, but your still restricted by speed and distance, although the hand book sits on the fence by stating "may" cause damage.

[@raul.cuevas]

I have a 2023 Defender 110 and using it for an overlanding trip on the north of Spain. precisely 2 days ago I had the car parked at a camping constantly opening and closing doors, there was actually a warning, sound and symbol in the screens saying the battery was low and to start the engine to avoid running out of battery. Maybe it was included in the last software update 4.0.1 launched in July, but that is a simple big improvement they added just via OTA.

[@agent74113]

I bought my first Land Rover about a a year ago. it's a 2008 Range Rover Sport (i absolutely love it despite a few minor problems). One of the issues it came with is that my driver door sensors almost ALWYS thinks my door is open. Thankfully it doesn't cause this particular issue. I did get an interfacing machine for it to clear codes and do things like calibrate my suspension and whatnot, and that has already been the best $200 i could have spent on tools.

[@davevisse]

My wife overlands to the mall regularly in it....and loves it. I didn't love the 2 month wait for the replacement for a broken front heated windshield....the fact it cost $4k...was a just a bit gutting. (how long will insurance companies cover this) Oh, then prior to 8K miles, we had a 1 week repair of the cooling system....no loaner. But so far, the car is surving mall trips and the grocery store! (for the record...my wife really wanted it.... because it was cute ;-) She has put up with me for over 30 years, so she gets what she wants.

[@francisold9166]

Spot on Andrew- I have some old defenders - doubled in value when they brought out the new! The new is far to complex which makes it a liability in a isolated setting. I don’t love the old defender but what I like about it is it so adaptable and no end of options for modification changes it into a a bespoke truck. I like the Grenadier but put of by price and lack of adaptability.

[@scandinavia6271]

The market price for old defenders have not doubled in my country…

[@sadsciuidae3425]

Ive had a couple 3 L-Rs and luved having them, I have a 98 Disco now and am converting it to a drilling machine for setting posts and poles. Ive ripped the body off, moved the radiator to the X-passenger seat floor, welded a heavy front bumper set up, 5 gal fuel tank is mounted on the chassis behind in front of the right rear wheel. bobbed back of chassis 12 inches to install the mast. Military wheels sporting 33 in MTs. An upgraded version of a 4X tractor with more HP.

[@paulbehrens9873]

I'm fairly sure the same opening doors problem also exists on my 2012 Disco 4. I often got a low battery warning after a day or two of standing in the bush, opening and closing doors as one does while camping. It also felt to me that locking the vehicle at night saved the battery too. Being less computer hungry I always caught it in time and then got into the habit of running the car for at least 15 minutes every day. WRT air suspension, wonderful ride, but a big problem when your compressor dies in the middle of Botswana and you have to get a 4x4 Flatbed at great expense to get you out, never mind the repair cost. Ruins the holiday a bit.

[@StephenStHill-si7en]

I heard a rumour that maintaining the normal suspension position while parked for a long period can drain the battery. This is due to the car correcting it's position. Apparently this can be avoided by leaving the suspension in the low/access position. Good luck.

[@vicentealvarez4406]

Very clear report! I can only confirm all what you say. I am very happy that just sold my 2010 Discovery 4, which has the same kind of mechanics. The air suspension breaks once a year. When the turbos fail, and they do after 100k km, you have to dismantle the vehicle almost completely to get there and fix; it costs you a fortune. Etc. Not a reliable mechanics, but indeed, when it works, it drives fantastically. To travel to remote areas, at least in Africa, unfortunately there is only Toyota. Hence their arrogant price tags!

[@andrewjones-productions]

Powerful UK Ltd have on their KZbin Channel done extensive tests on how much power is being used by simply opening and closing the doors. As a Discovery 5 owner, I paid close attention and now carry a Jackery jump lead adapter that I can plug into the Jackery. Just in case. Simon of Powerful UK Ltd has suggested that Land Rover (and other manufacturers) have a 'Camp function' which one can press that would stop the infotainment system from booting up every time someone opens a door. I cannot agree more. I have to agree with you Andrew, as much as I love the Land Rover Defender and think, as you do, that it is a very good car, Land Rover have spoilt it with the programming of their electronics. Unfortunately, it reflects the current UK. Seemingly good ideas, but take the lid off of the can and look inside and the contents are more often than not, half-baked. The joke being that Land Rover have a professor designing their vehicle. Yes, a PROFESSOR no less. I'd say, he needs to go back to school.

[@jeffho13]

The sole purpose and being for any automaker is to generate profits and increase sales. By that measure the Defender has been a knockout success- I sell these for a living and people are buying them hand over fist- it's currently the No. 1 selling model by volume that JLR makes. Unfortunately for hardcore enthusiasts, LR has veered away from it's rough and tumble roots as the "farmer's friend" and has stated their intention is to become a hyper luxury brand like Bentley and Aston Martin. Kind of reminds me of how the Simplo Filler Pen Co, maker of basic office supplies morphed into Montblanc. Time for overland enthusiast to let go and move on to a different automaker.

[@nickwf70]

So true

[@warren6899]

Mahindra here I come

[@philipbellew9645]

9 months ago Simon at Powerful uk did a deep delve into this power drain issue on his You Tube channel and its worth a look at just how much power is activated by the opening of the doors.

[@antonywoodward8997]

great channel too!

[@Paulo01111]

Andrew, a ZF 8 speed Defender does have a manual disabling of the parking pawl, it is located under the gearbox ( a bolt that you have to tighten up to push the parking pawl up to disengage it)

[@anbu999]

Defender is the perfect vehicle for content creator. Dramas, breakdowns attract viewers.

[@person.X.]

🤣🤣🤣

[@drrumak5928]

It is common in my experience of owning late model land rovers that it makes cranky old men even crankier.

[@ajones0000]

As a 2021 Defender owner, I'm holding out hope the electrical and software issues will all eventually be fixed. I couldn't agree with you more that other than that, it's really a great vehicle. Remember all software eventually works; all hardware eventually fails. 🙂

[@harrisonmcdowall2794]

Actually that's not really true. Bad software typically gets abandoned, turns to obsolescence, fails to function with new updates, and continues to just get worse overtime.

[@fantabuloussnuffaluffagus]

All hardware does eventually fail, the difference being, some fail in 6 months and some wait 20 years. Electrics on a British cars have always been crap, and the mechanicals are always dodgey, at best. I'll take a 10 year old Toyota over a 2 year old Landrover every day of the week. Have fun driving your Indian car.

[@LeonieHall-c4o]

And that is why Landcruiser 80 series are so prized. Expensive? Not as expensive as a modern electronic nightmare

[@will_274]

Bingo 🎯

[@richardsimms251]

In the 1950’s and 1960’s my Dad had many Land Rovers and they all had endless problems. RS. Canada

[@burgerbirger2221]

It will draw 13-15 amps for about 15 minutes when you open the door. Because it boots up and getting ready to drive. They should program an «oveland mode» which disengages the boot up of all the systems.

[@tcpnetworks]

How about this? Do nothing until you hit the key... Just like everything else on the market. This isn't Bosch being dicks - this is landrover firing up everything on the off-chance. LR set the configuration options. Dumb.... 20 minutes with an unlocked computer and all this crap could be reconfigured to start on button-push.

[@duncan.scobie]

Hi...been driving a new Defender for the last 3 weeks and gave to say it's the best car I've ever driven . Last year I was talking to a car hire person in Icelands International Airport and he was telling be about some recent bad weather where the airport was cut off from civilisation for quite some days due to snow and storms . Travellers had to sleep there and they were running out of food and drink . The first vehicle that managed to make it through to the airport was a new Defender . It succeeded where other 4x4s failed...and I'm sure you've seen the incredible custom 4x4s in Iceland in your travels !!!

[@edward3189]

The D4 has the battery drain issue as well, but the workaround is just to leave driver door halfway closed (partially latched closed, not all the way) whilst camping. You can then open and close the boot and other doors as many times as you want without draining the battery.

[@mikeb53]

When I had mine wrapped in thick self healing film as I do use my D4 off road... the wrappers nearly killed my battery by opening and closing doors constantly. Took a very long drive and a solar charger to sort it out.

[@AidanRIR]

You can disable the cabin lights by holding in the switch on the front top light panel ... it'll eventually flash a number of times to indicate it's off. This will help battery issues when camping for extended periods and not running the vehicle.

[@simonuden8450]

@@AidanRIR It's not the lights. When you open the door, it wakes up all the electronics ready for you to drive off, and they can take between minutes and hours to go back to sleep. I think someone else mentioned a 'camping mode', which would mean you could tell it not to wake up when opening doors. Don't know if that's a wish or whether it exists

[@nihallee]

Good trick Edmond. And yes "Camp Mode" from LR or from GAP IID would be nice. Or else I'm sure there is a fuse to pull or a wire to add a switch on somewhere. I'm able to delete the infotainment system using the IID tool but I don't want to flash my ECU every week-end. There has to be another way. All in all, LR trucks like any other vehicle needs proper prep before going on an adventure. Andrew spends months modifying a Toyota and then compares it to a stock LR. Can't wait to see the follow-up video he said he'd post after this. I just hope it will make more sense then this "I know 1 guy..." video.

[@jimmycricket5366]

​@@AidanRIRBut why all the BS issues that we never had with older vehicles? What is it all in the name of? Climate change or some such?

[@pablomax9376]

It reminds me of when the new LR3 came out in the US. I was lucky enough to go on an offroad weekend sponsored by LR in the SoCal desert. Overall the car was great off road, until it wasn't. On a particularly tricky hard break-over situation, the computer for the suspension crashed and lowered us onto the rocks so we were high centered and stuck. They had to ultimately disconnect the battery for several hours until the little backup battery to save the computer state also died and the system could go back to the default state. Naturally... I did not buy the the LR3, nor any subsequent LR product.

[@lunamaria1048]

I had one at release and was guilty of buying into the hype. I also wasn't knowledgeable in articulation and the difference between body-on-frame and unibody, back then. The Defender was great for everything, but off road use. Take it on technical terrain, and it wheel lifts excessively, like a car. That is very dangerous here in the mountains. I gave it up after 8 months, because I needed an adventure rig, not a second daily driver. Had I needed a daily, I'd have kept it.

[@MrXerxes]

What did you replace it with? Something with solid axles, it sounds like?

[@lunamaria1048]

@@MrXerxes Actually I had already owned a modified 4Runner TRD Off Road, so kept on using that for my offroad adventures

[@MrXerxes]

@@lunamaria1048 Those are excellent. I have owned the cousin vehicles ... Tacoma and Land Cruiser. All very capable.

[@simonuden8450]

Great until you need ground clearance under your differential, then you're better off with independent suspension and even more so with air suspension. The differential on a solid axle is always in the same place with respect to the contact point of its two tyres. On an independent setup, it can vary enormously. Another thing, whilst you might see the independently suspended vehicle lift a wheel in articulation, even a solid axle with the same wheel in contact with the ground will no doubt be completely unloaded and so will not be able to transfer much, if any, traction to the ground. Land Rovers have one of the best traction control systems around, so it doesn't 't really matter if it lifts a wheel in an axle articulation scenario.

[@paulbarry1044]

@@simonuden8450 Something like the Land Cruiser 200,and more so the 300 has more wheel travel and a traction control system as good as any LR.Have a look at some of the off road tests comparing the two.The Defender does have no low diff pumpkins,so has more clearence.But more complications,means more problems and worse reliability.And more expensive maintenance costs,particularly with the suspension.

[@chrisshellabear5610]

I have a new defender 110. I confess to loving the car. I have driven through the Kimberleys, including the Gibb River Road. I have travelled across in an easterly direction from Port Hedland across the canning stock route, through to the Northern Territory border, and then up through some uncharted territory to the Tanami track. Through all of this, we went through dust, mud and plenty of river crossings. It also included some fairly gnarly work on flinty rocks when we got it wrong. I have kitted out my car with long-range fuel tanks, and truck tyres which is a necessity and I have removed the compressed felt under the car and replaced it with eight mil aluminium bash plate. A lot of this time I was towing a light camper trailer. The car performed beautifully and then I got back to the city and with smaller trips and taking the dogs to the beach. The battery warning light went on. So it is an issue. I’m now going to seek a solution for the towing because you just never know!

[@aussiebattler7789]

I am a land rover fan and have several including series 2a disco2 and until last week a freelander 2 . The old 2a can generally be kept moving easily with basic knowledge and tools and is a very capable 4wd , the disco 2 td5 is something completly different certainly ahead of its time when it was released 20 odd years ago due to its handling ,,comfort, ride , off road ability and use of electronics which are basic by todays standards . To keep it moving your most important tool is a nanocom and the knowledge to interpret the read outs as almost all of the problems are minor electrical issues such as corroded earths wiring insulation rubbed through and the major one oil in the injector harness , all of the big matal bits are mostly bullet proof . the freelander 2 has more electronics but seems much less prone to problems but has the same issues with the doors , the owners hand book has a warning about the issue and advises when camplng leave one door open all of the time if possible asd it does not take much to flatten the battery . I have had it happen a couple of times but always could get it started but the entertainment system which includes eversing camera and navigation woul need to be reset. Not a straight foward task as the hand book for the system is 84 A4 pages and is almost impossible to understand so it was never used . It is time to bring back switches and knobs . On the new Defender I would not even consider it on the basis of the wheels alone let alone the nightmare of the electronics

[@oot1960]

If I bought one Id definitely get the GAP iid tool. You can configure the Driveline Disconnect control module easily via BT and your mobile phone! Also diagnose, reset, recalibrate etc etc Btw I loved my D3.

[@fkmbmw]

Can u elaborate more on this ?

[@jasontait8768]

A couple of factual errors here Andrew. If the transmission park release is activated (as stated in the first warning) then you can tow the vehicle as far as you want, and the transmission will NOT select Park after 10 minutes. This is the purpose of the transmission park release. Secondly, smaller wheels are available on the Defender (mine has 19 inch wheels).

[@echothreezero]

I have no personal experience whether the defender is particularly good or bad, but unfortunately this video is based on such factually incorrect misunderstandings that I am still none the wiser from watching it.

[@OffTheBeatenPathAus]

Thanks for sharing the anecdotes as always Andrew. The door opening one is gold. Previous owner of my 76 series I think was paranoid about that and had taken all globes out of the interior lights....

[@wjsj69]

Proving that your initial concerns were 100% warranted. You knew these things would be issues and you were right. I really hope LR and other makers are paying attention. Make something that people actually want, not what you think we want or what will sell to certain people because it's so flashy. Actually LISTEN to people like Mr. White!

[@ngwakorapholo6313]

I am somehow convinced that it is deliberate. All they care about is making money, the more trips you make back to the dealership the more money they make. It is almost always the electronics that fail, at least from my experience with my Disco 4, like the dreaded electronic park brake which.

[@ryant1090]

Actually, I'm sure JLR did their homework and realized that they will sell far more cars to the masses than to the enthusiasts. For every 1 serious user, there could be 500 affluent weekend warriors who just want a sexier and more exclusive vehicle than a 4Runner, Wrangler, or Bronco. JLR is just taking the brand recognition and capitalizing on the current trend of overlanding. Lots of rich people wanting to cosplay overlanding, without actually having to do it. To fans like you, JLR is diluting the LR heritage. But the suits in the boardroom see nothing but $$$.

[@wjsj69]

@@ryant1090 You're absolutely right but since they abandoned their one true icon, Ineos, Ford and Toyota are going to capitalize on the void JLR has created. And now, with the (expected) problems these things have, they may not sell like JLR expected. They CERTAINLY won't sell more new ones than the original models. Not to mention the military sales. What will the Brits use now? Toyotas? Mercedes?

[@nlpnt]

I'm reminded of The Fast Lane's experience with theirs - the first one threw a code when they first took it off-road, and did it again after several weeks at the dealership and an LR factory tech flying from Solihull to Denver to look it over. The second one they were given by lemon law was basically totaled out when the LR dealership had to splice into the wiring to install the LR factory-approved winch and they replaced THAT one, finally Defender #3 worked.

[@ashole2424]

Discovery 4 is the newest LR I'd trust to adventure properly in - yes, lots of electronics, but nowhere near as many as LRs that followed, and much more recoverable with the appropriate OBD tools. And, let's get real for a moment - superbly capable with a change to the wheel and tyre package.

[@caryknapton7233]

Totally agree, I travelled many Southern African countries in a Disco 3 along roads that would kill most ordinary 4x4, and yes had a Nanocom diagnostic in hand. Andrews videos have never shown roads as bad as I have travelled, and that includes Lesotho and Mozambique. However he did do one trip to Lesotho which he did that in an Disco 4🤣. The truth is Andrew and others want LR to make a "modern" Defender in the style and mechanics of the old Defender. The truth is it would appeal to maybe 5% of the total global market place. No business is going to do that, Andrew needs to stop LR bashing as every modern 4x4 sold in the main markets are constrained by over complicated electronics...that's the way the modern world is, unfortunately. His videos are becoming tiresome, unfortunately, as a result.

[@OneHeartMission]

@@caryknapton7233 I agree. He goes on and on and on bashing Land Rover and it's tired and boring now!

[@Queensizemusic]

@@caryknapton7233and yet Jeep and Toyota are still manufacturing cars that are reliable with very few electronics. Andrew is right, here, and is plainly providing information that will help newer travelers and hip them to the perils of remote travel in what they’ve been sold to think will be problem free vehicle in the bush. They’re simply not simple. And that’s the issue.

[@caryknapton7233]

@Queensizemusic I agree in principle, but it continues to feel like Land Rover bashing. My point is that the issue is not just limited to Land-rover its the same for the majority of 4x4 owners who will have keyless entry and automatic gearboxes from the OE supplier that Land-rover uses which if I am not mistaken includes the Jeep Wrangler using the 8 speed ZF.. If Andrew had highlighted this in his video I would not be commenting now. The fact is that the issue he raises regarding gearboxes and door opening in the bush is a well known by those that have and continue to undertake these trips as has been mentioned already in this and others thread. Long and short buy a Discovery 2 to 4 and take a diagnostic tool like a Nanocom and a few essential sensor spares as I did such as crank sensor, height sensor and you will be good to go. Land-rover of this era have their issues but after many personal 10s of thousands of KM overland in Southern Africa never been left stranded in one that is prepared and well maintained.

[@ashole2424]

@@Queensizemusic I'm personally very keen to see how this holds up with the newest LC/Prado - the increase in electronics is noteworthy.

[@jdpst20]

Always love your compassion and brutal honesty. I had a 2017 Discovery US and when I took it over landing or camping yes…. Every time I would open and close the door the dome map lights would turn on and off again. I finally figured out how to turn them off completely so that it would not drain the battery or have the door open sequence start up. I wish I could get a newer Pajero or proper Patrol in the US

[@skinnytroopy]

The new defender makes the old one look good.

[@wigs1098]

It was and is good. 363k on mine and still going strong.

[@tnargs57]

And that’s not easy.

[@marka6591]

Both are more interesting than a beige Toyota

[@frodestock1676]

@@marka6591 Yes, reliability is so tedious🥱

[@oldcargeezer]

Have you driven both new and old Defender before making this comment?

[@andreasweber7828]

Would love to see a comparison between the new defender and the Ineos Grenadier. That would settle the argument about the Defenders Adventure capability. Or the lack of it

[@klarie6805]

Hm currently owning a 2017 JLR Disco Sport and the Grenadier will be there very soon. To the honour of the Disco, except of a Front Radar in the very 1st week and a new drive chain at 101t mls about 160 TKM I had no issues beyond brake pads, disks and normal wear despite using it off - the road but not hefty. (rather grass / mud) Its better than any other SUV, but no stand to a real offroader. JLR and other automotive industry seem to have abandoned real capable vehicles. JLR abandoned its heritage. Sir Jim of Ineos reinvented it, and then there is a bit of new Toyota and a bit of Jeep, Jeep ist a rock cat and designed for use on Trail (Sporty) not overlanding and serious purpose, - JLR Defender became a Chelsea tractor, a Range Rover in a different coat. Looking in the future - the market for serious off roader and utility will now be shared between Ineos and Toyota. The G Wagon - is so much luxury now -.. and beyond any affordability for real users. And there are a still some who need these vehicles and not just overlanding adventure. (In my case despite the fact I am in IT business, - my 2nd life is hunting, forest work, habitat management etc. ) I need one car that is a versatile and General Purpose utility with some comfort, does proper off roading and daily ride - that will be an Ineos Grenadier Fieldmaster. JLR has given up the hard way.

[@bendgeddes]

Personally, I still feel the electronics of the Grenadier are going to be an Achilles heal too. It’s 90% ideal and 10% high risk. 😬

[@klarie6805]

@@bendgeddes That will be the problem of any vehicle that is approved roadworthy and must meed regulatory requirements. To have a vehicle that uses magnetos, can be started with a hand crank - that time is over. Grenadier comes in its entry version with as minimum electronics as possible.

[@kathykarns9829]

Hard to imagine the flat battery issue. My old 2008 MDX shuts itself off if I leave the doors open…even if I leave the hatch open all night. I have. Only hang up was the Bluetooth. The board would run down the car bat. If I didn’t drive it for several days. Yanked out the board and found the problem was due to a cold solder. The board heated and cooled too much and the solder cracked. Popped the board into the oven at a certain temp for a certain time and presto the board worked…for a month or so. The solder was bad because the stupid EPA took the lead out! Antimony is not as good. It forms whiskers here and there. So it is with many components that heat and vibrate a lot. Quick answer…I guess avoid buying anything with antimony solder.

[@rafaelcid8510]

@@klarie6805 the Grenadier probably won't get a very good result in a crash test. The Land Rovers are some of the safest cars on the market. Good luck

[@rafaelgollach74]

Spot on Andrew. I can't think of a better combination than low profile tyres, Aussie outback corrugations and dust to damage all the sensors etc required to keep defenders going. Also good luck finding a spare tyre anywhere outside a capital city

[@frederikarmbrust]

Well home many times has Andrew upgraded his wheels and tires, almost every time. You can do that on a defender too, get 265/65/18 wheels, probably the most common outback wheel at the moment.

[@richardwhiite6244]

@@frederikarmbrust not in Australia!

[@frederikarmbrust]

@medicoverland exactly I have just got them on my Disco 4, future ready for a defender or disco 5 😉

[@frederikarmbrust]

@richardwhite6244 I live in Australia, so not sure what you mean with not in Australia! Check out every car coming on the market they are all 18” wheels or you can option for 18” for free (Ford Everest)

[@rafaelgollach74]

@@frederikarmbrustIll grant that 265/65r18 would be available. However, i can't imagine many would consider that to be a desirable choice for overlanding. The videos main point was that the Defender is great when everything is functioning as intended. The issue arises when there's a malfunction (a common occurrence with Land Rover products). In such cases, recovery requires both a flatbed and a Land Rover technician, rendering it unsuitable/ practical overlanding.

[@plantpower3048]

This is soothing to hear for people who can't afford it, but in reality this is the best 4x4 in the world. The only downside is if you get the 20 inch wheels instead of the 18 or 19. I had a 2022 discovery for 2 years, I took it off road every weekend and never had an issue, its a very tough car.

[@4xoverland]

Thanks man. The 'Best 4x4 in the World' can't be restarted by the operator if the battery goes flat. We and the world apply a very different meaning to the word, 'best'. Best at what? Really. Best at what? PS. The Disco 1 and 2 were great 4x4s. Especially the 1. I also had one of those. It shares a badge but nothing else.

[@plantpower3048]

@@4xoverland let me be more specific: Best 4x4 system of any vehicle in the world (check Suv battle russian channel), Best off road angles of any car, versatility to drive well on road and off road, thats what you get for paying premium for a land rover, they can do it all, you cna drive on the highway safely and comfortable then hit the mountain and do seriois off roading wich any mods, air suspension, a transmission that doesn't overheat, best in class ground clearence stock, etc. Why would the battery go flat? You are just nostalgic about old cars...but they havent gotten worse, thats not how it works

[@robbell4339]

You’ve probably seen Simon talking about the power drain on the PowerfullUK KZbin channel. It’s massive and a significant oversight on an “adventure vehicle”. You’re right Andrew - it needs a software update along the lines you’ve described, or at least some form of “camping mode” to turn off the anticipatory systems activation every time a door is opened.

[@carllawton9520]

You are correct and Simon PowerfullUK has just released a video on how to release the park & handbrake mode on the new Defender. I’m on my second new Defender and not had any problems. I bet he doesn’t have a new Defender

[@scandinavia6271]

Claiming to be a highly experienced “overlander”, I am quite surprised that Andrew doesn’t know; 1) Towing ANY automatic 4x4 is NOT straight forward 2) All modern cars drain battery when firing up computers He keeps bashing the new Defender - even though his beloved Land Cruisers (200/300)have the exact same “issues”..

[@ivorscruton5121]

In 1995 I was travelling from Belize to Antigua Guatemala in a BJ 40 Land Cruiser. A slow moving convoy impeded my progress in the Peten jungle, which I passed, turned out to be the Camel Trophy Discovery challenge and their support vehicles. So perhaps that's the secret, have factory support vehicles follow you when embarking on an adventure in the new Defender.

[@johnphillips519]

I used to have a BJ40 with diff locks, It was unstoppable and never ever broke down, It got me to some of the most amazing places in Oz that few people have ever seen, I wish i had never sold it.

[@ivorscruton5121]

@johnphillips519 Simplicity has a quality of its own. The 40 series was the tractor of automotive transportation. The foot vent AC never failed, a true workhorse lost in modern Apple Car Play, Android connectivity bull shit.

[@johnphillips519]

Absolutely agreed👍@@ivorscruton5121

[@ILCapo-mo5jj]

Spot on, Andrew! Your clip reaffirms my choice of keeping my older tech vehicles in top vigour.

[@jevgeniardassov]

My friend had an adventure in a New Defender. After getting it brand new from the dealership the MIL light came On after 126 km, it became undrivable after 156 km, towed back to the dealer and they could not figure out the fault for over a month. Good thing He is a lawyer. They quickly bought it back… That was the end of adventure and his love for Land Rover brand. Too bad, he was such an enthusiastic while waiting, he showed me dozens of videos, stories, man he was so happy to get it and then the ship sank, man was devastated. I have all the sympathy for all the engineers that did the brilliant work and the Money department that screwed it all up by buying the most cheap electronics they could get… Dammit, just buy the Denso parts from Toyota. 🤬

[@prof.dr.chrisschmiech8945]

Your comment shows that you are, politely saying, not very familiar with designing process of OEMs.

[@daler2577]

The same thing happens regarding flattening the battery on the L322 Range Rover. Where as my works Transit van, Ford seem to have killed that problem by having a second auxiliary battery that works similar to a caravan, so even if you left the radio on or interior lights on it doesn't affect the start battery.

[@PenryMMJ]

You're completely right Andrew, but in a world where marketing people have convinced the general public that a 2 wheel drive Nissan Qashqai is a utility vehicle I'm not remotely surprised. People who are used to adventure driving can easily avoid the marketing bs, and get a vehicle with the capabilities that they need. People new to the hobby do need to see videos like this, so that they don't end up stranded in a dangerous situation.

[@langwightman1896]

I have a 2021 110 Defender. It has let me down twice. The last time was a month ago on a trip back from Alaska. I ended up with a broken axle, a failed fuel pump module and a leak in one of the auxiliary radiators. Thank goodness I was back in the lower 48! The first time was in Moab and the thing was just inert and had to be trucked to a dealership. And I have seen the low battery warning multiple times at campsites when I open and close doors. One more time and that’s it! 😊😊

[@littlewink7941]

Defender,The Triumph of Form over Function. Perhaps Land Rover will sponsor a few Defenders to try a deep and remote bush trip, well away from cell phones, flat beds and dealerships.

[@judenealeinc8203]

Thank you for the review, you confirmed my second thoughts about purchasing the defender P110. i wanted to buy this vehicle thinking it was most suitable to do Northern BC Canada wilderness trips.

[@nihallee]

You can override the parking break with the GAP IID tool. You could also disconnect the battery so it doesn't engage when towing.

[@levisaxen614]

You could also get a Toyota and avoid all of this.

[@6th.replicant577]

Is it possible to flat tow a Land Cruiser 300 or the 2024 Prado?

[@avyeal]

Last year I bought a '22 Defender 90 4 cyl and LOVED it. I drove it for 3 months and then returned it because it continually popped into neutral whilst in drive, unexplainably, only to be driven back into a 90, but this time around a '23 with the V8. I absolutely f***ing love this vehicle and I never, ever want to get rid of it. The transmission error was apparently an electronic issue; this didn't comfort me at all that somehow there was an electronic bug that could change gears without an mechanical fail-safe in place. This terrified me because I have a beautiful husky that means the world to me, and plan on going anywhere and everywhere in my new 90 for many years. 4 months / 4K miles in so far on the 90 V8 and zero problems thus far; except once, the center console screen started flicking bright green like my old monitors from the 90s/00s used to do when they got old...but hoping that the '23s are at least a bit more ironed out.

[@ORileysAutos]

1: most modern vehicles will flatten the battery in a similar way. Even proximity keys wake the car up. 2: you cant tow most 4x4 with all wheels on the ground especially automatic ones. 3: it can be towed more than 10 minutes if you disconnect the park brake release mechanism. Most modern vehicles behave like this now. Welcome to the future 👍🏻

[@4xoverland]

Land Rover are selling an 'adventure' car. How can it possibly be suitable for adventure if even a simple flat battery can bring the adventure to an end - until an approved LR mechanic arrives? It's absurd.

[@Lex-Hawthorn]

@@4xoverland I watch several recovery people in the US, and it is amazing that with 4x4s, they actually remove the drive shaft, to stop any damage to the running gear. If they worry about a normal 4x4? What chance does a new discovery have? Yes i reckon without a flatbed or a qualified technician at hand 24/7, it's and absolute lemon.

[@OshoLee]

I had a Discovery 2022, it was a beast and very reliable, had it for 2 years, but did off roading every weekend!

[@mountainconstructions]

This is gonna make those LR flogs cry

[@mattluszczak8095]

No

[@mattluszczak8095]

You can keep all the new ones

[@matthewl.8312]

From the LC300 manual. If a tow truck is not available in an emergency, your vehicle may be temporarily towed using cables or chains secured to the emergency towing hooks. This should only be attempted on hard surfaced roads for at most 80 km (50 miles) at under 30 km/h (18 mph).

[@brianmoore4778]

Lr3 runs around the Mohave desert quite frequently 230k. only problem, I blew transfer case doing extreme hill climbing still ran till I found time to repair. Have owned 3 land cruisers 91,94,2000 like lr3 HD the best so far. Also have lifted Touareg V8 2 in. Solid suspension.Fantastic mountain vehicle handling, braking 32 in duratrac tires.

[@JorenzTanada]

Can’t afford one anyway, so all good 😂 Besides, am happy with the simplicity of my LC-70 😊 Cheers on continued awesome content from you, @4xoverland !

[@davidburchill9333]

I'm sticking with my 100 series LC for the moment. Love it!

[@mwat22]

​@@davidburchill9333I think this was the pinnacle of land cruisers

[@sketchbabu]

@@davidburchill9333 Such a great vehicle.

[@BugsTours]

LC100 here.... OME for all parts at 144K the 2uzfe engine is an extreme reliable engine.

[@mwat22]

@@BugsTours I know the petrol engine is reliable and easy to maintain but gaddamn the fuel consumption is horrible 😭😂😂

[@user-cx2bk6pm2f]

Love it when Andrew rightfully calls out shortcomings! Not even Land Rover is immune to his focus. I love Land Rover as well but not above some direct constructive criticism.

[@genieb]

Because I lived in Nigeria, where access to good JLR mechanics was VERY expensive, I invested in a BlackBox Solutions Xtreme unit. I had a NAS spec 2006 Supercharged RR, that had sat in the import yard for 2 full years. So after the usual issues with the vehicle had been sorted (fuel system cleaned out etc.) it drove great, until the ZF gearbox issue pressure control solenoid started giving issues. This was NOT limited to the JLR, it happened to a small but significant amount of ZF gearbox users (and a lot of brands use it). Once that was sorted, both coolant to oil heat exchanger failed (within a month). This was a problem with all the Baer units in early cars (again not just JLR). Then I proceeded to update all ECUs (only BlackBox and JLR computers have that capability). Since then my old Supercharged worked great for years. Then I bought (no longer in Nigeria) a 2010 Supercharged and that was flawless from when I bought it, till I sold it. It did a bit of offroading in NZ but nothing crazy, including in the snow and ice of Mount Ruapehu. The 2010 SC was only 4 yrs old and clearly well maintained before and subsequently by me. Within the Fullfat RR group, we found that well maintained RRs are very reliable. Note, we also had a Landcruiser in Nigeria and that was not very reliable, the RR (once sorted) was better than the 2001 Landcruiser (with very little electronics). Also good friends of us took a brand new Landcruiser from Nigeria to Spain but never made it past Mali (Timbuktu !!) before it had to be flatbedded back. Electronics, the immobilizer failed, likely due to the rough roads. This was a 2012 model. I would happily take my RR into the outback and I would take my BlackBox computer. :)

[@nobiggeridiot]

Oddly enough, at least for the market I'm in, every time LR releases a new vehicle, my older one appreciates in market value...

[@fatmanoverlanding]

The KZbin channel "NextLevelOZ Big Lap Gap Year" had their Defender break down 300km from the nearest town in WA. And it took a couple of goes for it to get fixed by the dealer. He released an episode about a month ago where he goes through the entire experience, incl. false promises by Land Rover prior to purchase about what's covered by LR when a breakdown occurs in remote areas etc.

[@noelwhittle7922]

to clarify, they broke down 300km from town but the car got transported from Exmouth to Geraldton to be fixed approx 850km.

[@cgustaff4807]

Can't wait for the new all-electric Defender. You'll definitely have fun with that one.

[@roaming-aus]

Isn’t it obvious. It’s NOT a true defender!!!! It’s a dumbed down discovery!!!!!! Come on Land Rover. We’re not idiots!!!! I used a lot of !!!!! in my rant hey. Done. Never going Land Rover again and as a former 130 owner who loved its capabilities I can’t see a future for them

[@garystepp1054]

In the states, most Landrovers on the road are expensive and have NO mud on them. And that is where that brand has gone. Over engineered for yuppies who will never use it for the way it was intended.

[@thomasgoodchild]

I've found the discovery 4 gives you a warning to run the engine in the same situation, I'm surprised they didn't add this feature to the defender

[@MegaSkypes]

Yeah I have one and it’s good but I have to totally not have the interior lights off permanently as it increases this notification! Bollocks really! Love my Defender 110 Td5 Oh and my Series 3 which has a starting crank handle! Love my LandRover!

[@paulbarry1044]

With the Disco 4 we left one door on the first catch,when camping,problem sorted.The Defender is worse than the D4,it draws more current and wakes up for longer.For a remote area touring vehicle,it does not tick many boxes at all.For an around town vehicle,it ticks most boxes.

[@karma247ajm]

What if the engine is the reason for the breakdown?

[@oldcargeezer]

l've never had the low battery warning in mine and l've used it for camping where it's not moved for days and l've been in and out of the vehicle multiple times. lf this issue occurred l would sell it and go back to an old Defender

[@MegaSkypes]

@@oldcargeezer mate I had all the doors open today and the kids were out at the skate park and no issues!

[@simonbell2578]

I have heard this before. It started when they updated and gave L322 Range Rover a face lift with a shinny crome looking grill around 2010-2012. When you open the drivers door the car thinks your going somewhere and starts the electronics in preperation. I have an early L322 which I use on my farm and its fine. I had a facelift one from new and used it one day in a field we were repairing the fences and after about half a day of opening and closing the doors because Im in the UK and it was raining and the cows were also in the feild and if you have cows you know they love windows and mirrors on carsl/Land Rovers and tractors so the doors were closed. When went to start the Rangie the Battery was flat. Had to walk to farm and get tractor to tow back to the farm. I would of thought/wished/hoped LandRover might of either sorted this problem out or stopped using this method out. I didnt know about the Defender but obviously not. I dont have a New Defender as My old L322 is still fine as a nice tractor and still works as a car if I ned to tow a cattle trailer with sheep to the slaughter house or to pick up a takeaway etc. When this dies ill have to either figure out how to bypass this 'FEATURE' or find a newer old L322 to use or I dont know.....

[@jamiefay3028]

The door issue happens on Jaguars too. Sounds like someone’s just copy/pasted some standard code into the Defender…

[@michaelbautista5803]

Indian made car problems

[@shotsfiredandmissed9068]

very lazy, then again what do you expect from tata?

[@stephenfoley5292]

WATCH...Fast lane cars....it will make you cry 😢. Father and son got a brand NEW!! Defender, after just 120 miles, it broke down. And there story started... in the end Landrover couldn't fix it and were forced to offer them a new one and an upgrade. Great you might think but No!! Before they had even taken delivery Landrover while fitting a Winch cut the main wiring harness and on doing so the vehicle was also UNREPAIRABLE so we're forced to offer them yet another Defender by now they didn't get the colour they wanted the spec they wanted the wheels they wanted or the Winch they wanted. It's a fantastic vehicle let down by one thing ..The Software..

[@baristaprodigy7]

Landrover Defender, you get a dead battery, and you will be completely stranded. have it transported to the dealer for a technician to make the computer work again. What a waste, old landrover was legendary that once was.

[@svein-haraldribland8559]

How did you make such things? We did not with 6 cars in Botswana.

[@sbGOM]

Oh. That's right. Defenders are the only modern 4wds you can get stranded in when the battery goes flat!

[@JimYeats]

@@sbGOMDifference being it may not be easily fixed with just a booster or jump.

[@sbGOM]

@jimyeats Simon whathisname started a flat battery Defender with a power pack.

[@peterclancy3653]

I had a series 1 from 1976 to2005 Rough, uncomfortable,noisey but will get there