INEOS GRENADIER PASS OR FAIL? @4xoverland

Has the Ineos Grenadier succeeded in its attempt to recreate a worthy replacement for the Land Rover Defender? I was hoping that they would make a vehicle, as they said they would, to replace the Defender. IMO, if they had, the base offering would be less well equipped with a starting price far lower than it is.
#ineosgrenadiers #ineosgrenadier #landroverdefender
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4xOverland is the world's first global 4WD adventure off-road motoring channel. Established in 1996, it is hosted by well-known 4x4 writer, explorer and filmmaker, Andrew St Pierre White. AKA: ASPW.

[@thejackaroo4WDcampingchannel]

Wow Andrew, this is definitely one of the best and most honest and accurate reviews I have ever seen. You are spot on with this.

[@bastogne315]

This man is not who he says.. He is david attenborough on.. Carbon

[@alwynvanwyk1851]

A fake, yes, not a brand loyalist , David Technicolour Dreamcoat style, like a cameleon 😂😂😂😂

[@DanMasterBlaster]

I’ve got a lot of respect for Andrew. I like him a lot but a lot of these points sadly are just for Clickbait and most are moot points. Anyone who talks about payload (check the comments below) there is no stock vehicle that is superior in payload or towing then the Grenadier. To Andrews point about having a fully laden vehicle, does he really think this vehicle cannot travel fully laden? I challenge anyone to find and share a video on KZbin where any other manufacture has fully laden their 4x4 vehicle and provided a challenging off-road/4x4 course for journalist to test drive their vehicle. Quite simply the Grenadier is the best stock 4 x 4 vehicle ever made. I challenge anyone to fully laden any vehicle and put it side-by-side with Ineos Grenadier and show me superior performance. Bear in mind, the Toyotas and Nissan have much less brake horsepower and torque in their stock vehicles. Regarding seats, Andrew you can always take the seats out and put other less comfortable seats if you don’t want them. However this car has designed for the majority of buyers not for 0.001% of fussy buyers like Andrew, which would be a recipe for financial ruin. Andrew has a very extreme specific requirement and no one is going to make a bespoke vehicle just for him only. Andrew also spends between 20 - $30,000 to get his vehicle modified after purchase The people that buy a Grenadier are high-end buyers and the only other high-end rival is a Mercedes G wagon. They are the genuine tier one 4x4/Overlanding vehicles that you can drive straight out of the showroom and do an expedition with no modification, other than lithium batteries and a rooftop tent and jerrycan holders. With Toyota Land cruiser and Nissan patrol you still need to spend quite a bit of time and money to modify these to get them ready for an overland expedition. Andrew puts his vehicle into a specialist where it takes 4 to 6 weeks for modification before he takes it on an overland adventure. watch his modification videos. Don’t listen to anyone who says you can drive a Land Cruiser straight out of the showroom and drive it through Sahara desert, Atlas Mountains and the west coast of Africa with no further modifications. The final point on 90 L fuel capacity is not far off the Nissan Armada at 106L which gets 462 miles on a Full tank Vs the Grenadier diesel, which gives you 461 miles. Nissan and land cruiser is usually have five or six speed transmission which are significantly more fuel thirsty than the Grenadier. With the optional extra fuel tank, These are carried in a precarious position under the chassis where if you are rock crawling you can rip the fuel tank open. Personally I prefer to carry 2x 20 L jerrycans either side, externally in a secure lockable cage on the rear panniers. Get what you want your choice, but is there a chance mate no mistake. The Grenadier is the most capable all-round over landing, 4x4 stock vehicle.

[@Andrew-dg7qm]

Like Andrew said, “you’re missing the point”. A new grenadier is $70,000+, and a new wrangler is $33k. Jeep have got it right A a new defender is 56,000 and a ‘97 defender in good condition is about the same. My wrangler has similarly held its value…could sell it now for what it cost new in ‘99 The key is the access to the base vehicle and the accessories market. Otherwise what’s the point of replacing the old defender…they’re competing with a G wagon instead

[@3204clivesinclair]

​@@Andrew-dg7qm But travel to any country outside the USA and see how few Jeep products are used for serious overland journeys.

[@nicholasszkiler3954]

I'm an Ex- Land Rover Dealer Principal with 38 years Defender 110 experience - hundreds of thousands of miles towing with 110s. 2000 miles now on my new Grenadier Fieldmaster and just returned from a 400 mile trip towing a huge enclosed 7 metre trailer with an E'type Jag in the back. Gross train weight about 6 tons. 19.1 MPG. Hugely impressed. Its a tank! I've never towed with anything so stable. Its track, weight and tyre size make it feel like my 2016 Defender's big brother. All that said Andrew, I agree about the need for a stripped down Grenadier 'Utility' . There is a market for that.

[@stephenhankey688]

Well said, me the same in my line of work towing plant machinery around, the Grenadier in my opinion knocks, the older defenders into a cocked hat, with out doubt. Safely..

[@BrexitVision]

@@stephenhankey688 Thanks Stephen!

[@scaifefab4585]

All good and well but the pick up only has 760kgs of payload. Will proberbly tow even beter than the van as is 12 inch longer but payload stops it being vat reclameable (accountant still looking at that) My 130 defender with dropside bed had 1300kgs payload and tows twice as good as a 110 of whitch ive had a good few of also have a v6 amarok which tows very good as well well over 1 tonne payload with a gmv upgrade think grenadier neede to think about buisness users a bit more and shaved 240 kgs off the quartermaster

[@bernardmccann7676]

No leg room in them your left foot is sitting on the rise where exhaust goes what we’re they thinking sorry they weren’t thinking

[@bradleycruse2763]

​@@johncolley3317sub 30k is impossible for them. It'll be 45k even at the most basic

[@camro210]

While I agree with everything you're saying, I think we both "know" that all of this is very intentional from Ineos. They aren't ACTUALLY trying to replace the Defender in that sense, it's just their clever way of marketing this product that's close enough to the Defender to take advantage of that portion of the Defender's fan base which is now aging and has money to burn on a more upscale version.

[@Chapmanana]

Agreed that it is not a Defender replacement but the Defender you are talking about ceased production in 2016 or whenever it was and there was undoubtedly a business/financial reason for that. Any "replacement" is going to have to be different. The basic premise of the video I support, however.

[@SiCrewe]

Spot on. Given the stories about how Jim Ratcliffe originally attempted to restart production of the Defender, I'm willing to accept that he originally intended to built a true "utility vehicle" but that intention has clearly changed as Ineos embarked on designing and building a vehicle of their own.

[@camro210]

@@SiCrewe That's fair. And perhaps from a more optimistic angle, if the current Grenadier brings the company success and starts to build a good reputation for the vehicle, then that could give Ineos management more comfort in pursuing a stripped-down version for the broader market. Let's hope that turns out to be the case.

[@SiCrewe]

@@camro210 Thing is, it's possible (despite Defender prices getting silly recently) for almost anybody to buy into a Defender of some sort. That can only happen because farmers, utility companies, the military and NGOs bought them for decades and maintained them to varying standards (or not) so they ARE there to be had. Sooner or later, owners will spend money on OEM stuff and JLR will continue to get revenue from that vast pool of used vehicles. With the Grenadier, Ineos has been forced to start from scratch, with (almost) their only source of revenue being new car sales. Maybe they ARE playing the "long game" and hoping the Grenadier will become as ubiquitous as the Defender was but I'd be very surprised if a company's management/shareholders would be willing to take that risk, or wait that long for a return on their investment. Honestly, I'm surprised Ineos didn't just scrap the whole project when they found they couldn't continue production of the Defender so I guess you've got to give them credit for seeing it through.

[@camro210]

@@johncolley3317 Sure, I have no argument with that. But that young demographic is very unlikely to care how suitable the Grenadier is as a replacement for the Defender. They'll want one regardless.

[@Pandora882]

Well after 3/4 of a million miles in Defenders all I can say the last 2K in a Trialmaster petrol have been a pleasure . Yes. it's expensive but you have to pay for quality weather it's the drivetrain engine, gearbox, axles or the chassis( 3mm thick gestamp same as G wagen) The seats are comfortable its quiet and after a day at the wheel your not knackered. The engine is powerful enough with out being over stressed gearbox. a dream.And yes I have driven it off road in ice snow and mud didn't put a foot wrong. The HDC is very good no groaning as in other vehicles I have driven . Good on the road as any live axle vehicle . As a Pom I can detect whinging a mile off, the boats sailed . Why don't you just go and drive one(not on a journey day get one for a week or so) and then you can make your mind up if it's not for you all well and good .The seats are very comfortable adjustable fantastic heaters too. If you keep the price low all components suffer.

[@rawnature8148]

Where did you find ice and snow in the UK at this time of year?

[@Pandora882]

@@rawnature8148 Last December 22

[@stephenhankey688]

I agree whole heartedly with you comments, I think APW is wrong, and is after hits,Grenadier has just completed a top offroad rally in Poland, never missed a beat.

[@rawnature8148]

@@stephenhankey688 let's see when they start getting 200k kms +.

[@rawnature8148]

@@Pandora882 so in 7 months you have done 2000kms? That's not even two days worth of driving.

[@watda011]

A basic troopy costs 105k at a dealer now, l paid 103k on road for a Trialmaster with all the trimmings. I don't understand you saying it costs so much. On a troopy you still have to spend for a electrician $110 a hour to instal a second battery, DC converter, spotlight wiring, ladder, Recaro seats, etc etc etc and end up spending 150k plus

[@theeahsee]

Before you even said it, I was thinking of the Jimny. In spite of market trends and conventional wisdom, Suzuki went all out with an honest throwback with some tongue-in-cheek humour and proven authenticity, with just enough modern amentity to surprise you. Whoever designed the Jimny should be handed the patent for the Defender.

[@mindtraveller100]

Yes. And, also look at the price. In my country, a Jimny costs only 1/3 of the price of most modern 4 by 4´s...

[@steveofengland]

@mindtraveller100 yes, and the Jimny has a 1.5 liter petrol engine, weighs sweet F all, and carries 2 people and their luggage. Hardly and apples to apples comparison. Everyone loves bringing up the jimny, but everyone I know who's driven one or bought one, soon moves on.

[@mindtraveller100]

@@steveofengland Of course it´s not an apples to apples comparison. Jimny is better than some of them...

[@Baebon6259]

@@steveofengland same here. Pretty much everyone I know of owning the Jimmy moved on to the LC.

[@theeahsee]

@@yuglesstube maybe I'm biased as a owner, but I've swapped from a commodore ute to a jimny. I frequently make 900kms trips from syd to mel, and its fine on the freeway. A little buzzy but I was expecting much worse. It would definitely appreciate a 6th gear, and a heavy load would slow it down, but as long as you're aware you're not driving a huge diesel it's more than adequate on the highway.

[@steveofengland]

Andrew, my wife and I drove our grenadier from the UK to albania, taking in many offroad routes on the way. We were fully loaded with a roof tent and cargo, fridge etc. There's no problem with suspension height. As for price, I paid less for mine than an well specced prado here in the UK.. go figure. You really have a bee in your bonnet about the Grenadier 😅.

[@themagician7734]

UK prices seem to be different than most of the world. A 'Prado' in the US (GX 460) can be had for ~60k. A Grenadier starts at $73k and a Trialmaster easily gets to $87k. To compare, a fully equipped Jeep Rubicon with 35" tires is around $72k.

[@xxpierrotxx]

Hi Steve ! UK to Albania, ok thats a distance !!! May I ask ... did you had any issues with dirty sensors in offroad conditions, or "car-start-problems" caused by the doors ?

[@dav4x487]

How much fuel, food, water, tools and recovery equipment were you carrying, did you take an additional spare tyre?

[@_Ben4810]

''You really have a bee in your bonnet about the Grenadier.....'' How many of Andrew's previous videos have you watched...?!? He's got more bees in his bonnet than a Capilano honey beehive...& that's precisely why we love & respect him so much...! 🐝🍯🚙❤

[@bakepl]

just wasted 20 minutes won't get back. Am I hearing this right.. the seats are too comfortable so Ineos should make them uncomfortable enough so they need to be replaced, it's not as cheap as a Jimny..... the overhead console is a waste of money ...for some. Click Bait, where's the video gone with the rant about Ineos not giving you a free Grenadier..😶

[@kacperzabczyk4559]

We get your point Andrew, but if you think about it. How much money do you need to spend on a 70 series to make it right. It’s around 100k aud for the vehicle and modifications, what if you can have a car that’s already built right for the same amount. How much do you need to spend on a defender? It’s all around a 100k. The important thing you’re not talking about is buying a used car vs a new one. Sure you can buy a defender now to 50k but to make it reliable and trusty you’ll spend another 50.

[@baxtersfarm]

Having had mine for 6 weeks and doing just over 1K Miles I am finding it brilliant. Yes , it could have been cheaper and lighter but it is heavy for a reason. It is extremely solid and well put together. It tows fantasticly on and off road. What other vehicle will be one minute on the road doing 70 miles an hour in comfort and the next minute crossing an arable field pulling a heavy trailer. There is, in my mind, nothing that will do what I want and need for the money. Its not as cheap as many would have wished but the fact that it is selling in good numbers must be an indication that there is a market out there. I agree that the Jimny is very good and if it was bigger with a greater towing capability it would find a large customer base. There is a market for both the Grenadier and the Jimny. Horses for Courses.

[@BabaNovac792]

See you after a couple of years to see how it handles age and passing miles ;)

[@CJ-rk5eg]

You can’t please everyone all the time

[@cyclemoto8744]

@@BabaNovac792 Yes we will see just like any new model. The commentator has put his hard earned money down and will do that for the rest of us who are unwilling to do so. And I look forward to the results and hope for positives. Cheers

[@timbayes141]

I don’t believe at any stage ineos decided to build a replacement of the defender . The truth is you couldn’t possibly do so. Since the defenders creation and evolution we live in a completely different legal a manufacturing principled world. I might possibly suggest Instead Ineos intended to take the spirt of the defender and apply it as much as they could with the design boundaries of the world today. I would suggest the theme and tittle is naive or may be there to provoke ! I’ve just returned from Iceland in the grenadier we where in a group with land cruisers land rovers and g wagons.. hand on heart the most capable vehicle was the grenadier…. Incredible engineering…But it does need lifting … next Job 👍👍

[@cyclemoto8744]

@@timbayes141 Other than your first hand experience with the vehicle (because I don't own one), I absolutely agree with you. Cheers

[@ReimerKeith]

I hope Ineos listens and releases an Ineos Spartan.

[@matthewkeith8605]

That would be the right name for it!

[@k2svpete]

Perfect name for it!

[@telliottaus1]

I took my Grenadier out to Ilkurlka roadhouse and back along the Anne Beadell hwy from Laverton. Fully loaded 2 people ... survived to tell the story... some valid comments re pricing and accessories - i have used overhead panel switches etc, love the seats...

[@BackyardTouring]

Absolutely hit the nail on the head Andrew!! It would be so great to see any manufacturer release a 4x4 with minimal electronics and unnecessary extras, let us decide how we want to build our off road vehicles. 👍

[@jimmycricket5366]

I'm trusting once they recoup some costs on sales of the current line up, they will release a basic pickup with half the electronic sh*t and much less expensive.

[@steinar.offroad]

they might be able to in small markets like Australia, but european emission regulation simply means you can't have a big heavy car without a ton of electronics to get fuel consumption down.

[@ToxxicMafia]

@steinar.offroad i thought Australia is one of the biggest markets for such a vehicle

[@steinar.offroad]

@@ToxxicMafia not that many people live in Australia when compared to Europe or North America, and there is a LOT more competition in Australia than there is in Europe.

[@ToxxicMafia]

@@steinar.offroad makes sense

[@TrazzaBoy]

Andrew, I own a Trialmaster and am very happy with it (although I haven't heavily tested it offroad yet). I do agree that it would be great if a cheaper/more basic option could be made available to open ownership to a wider market. However, I disagree with your comment on Ineos closing the market for accessory providers to take advantage themselves. The roof-rack is an option the vehicle comes with but it is made by Rhino-Rack (not Ineos) and there is no requirement to purchase this brand as many others will fit. Also, the switch panel in the roof with blank switches will be very useful to me, as an enthusiast, as I will be able to easily wire up 3rd party accessories that I require. At present Ineos provides little in the way of accessories and if the roof-rack serves as an indicator of the direction they intend to follow it looks like the accessory market will be open to all (although only time will tell). As a Series 3 Land Rover owner as well I never expected the Grenadier to be as fully basic as a Defender but it is still a vehicle that is extremely capable, adaptable to what I want it to be but is not so gentrified that it cannot be hosed out when dirty inside like Defender.

[@CJ-rk5eg]

Well said! Andrews comments about accessories were incorrect. There’s an accessory catalogue on the website but the aftermarket is beginning to offer options. Just be patient Andrew !

[@hmp125]

Watched a video the other day from a firm in Switzerland that already has an extensive range of aftermarket gear for the Ineos. Including a very ingenious roof rack system.

[@tomjet1000]

@@hmp125 yep Black Sheep, went to see them yesterday and they do great quality work with fantastic innovations....even though I stilll drive and love my 110 😉

[@louisfourie3302]

"it cannot be hosed out when dirty inside like Defender" You are wrong for you can do exactly that with the Trialmaster. Go check their website.

[@dlansburg2673]

As with every utility type vehicle,I want basic and inexpensive,You nailed it

[@DarrylSheather]

Purchase a Toyota, change the seats for Recaro's and thats ok. A manufacturer puts in decent seats from factory and thats not ok? Seriously. Personally I've spent a reasonable amount of time crawling over the Ineos and agree, it's no Landrover. After owning an older 110 and really wanting to buy the last of the Defenders it took a test drive to tell me the romantic notion didn't align with reality. Ineos is a modern vehicle and frankly for those that want a modern vehicle of that type, it's perfect and those with them seem to like them. Not for me, but thats ok. The fact that we now have another player in the live axle market is a good thing, not bad.

[@papa2k]

Andrew, I think you should sit down and interview a business manager/accountant from LR or Ineos and see why a stripped-out low cost version is just not viable. If they can’t make money, they can’t make the cars!

[@stephenhankey688]

Like Andrew couldn't make films you mean !!🤣 yes to me it's very Hypocritical

[@remlap42]

to keep from having to meet safety and emissions ratings they can only make a small amount per year, and they are already selling them

[@GregsMowing]

there won't be a cheap car, prices for materials have gone up loads since 2020. Maybe the plan for the grenadier was to be 40k but steel went up 400%!! yet alone everything else and lots of wiring etc comes from Ukraine and Russia.

[@ranjithpowell6791]

Land Rover was cheap and very successful!

[@martinuso7446]

@@ranjithpowell6791 Indeed: Was...

[@Thesilverrat]

After Andrew lost it over the beeping in a PAJERO, I take what he says now with a large pinch of salt. But still enjoy the traveling side of what he does so happy to stay subscribed. And before ya'll get upset, I paid to see the early release of him using the 40year old range rover to support his channel.

[@TopOfTheRiverKangarooisland]

As Jeremy Clarkson said on this vehicle: Ït's sad. I really wanted it to be brilliant. I even sort of wanted one."

[@fartymud]

100% right Andrew. The base model work horse that can be fitted out along the way is by far more desirable and garners respect from the average user.

[@Bartraeger]

I have just taken delivery of my Trialmaster after a very long wait. Loving it. Those thinking it is expensive seem out of touch with what vehicles cost these days, also to be compliant with modern safety and environmental regulations a ton of technology is necessary which just wasn’t a topic all those years ago. I have driven thousands of Kilometres in Series 3 / Defender / Wolf and am very happy with the Ineos Grenadiers modern take on these vehicles. The Recaro seats are great btw - why would you bother installing anything else?

[@hughsmitham722]

I love this take.

[@martinuso7446]

Andrew loves to spend a lot of money in little bits, not in one go. He is just jealous he did not came up with the overhead buttons himself and Ineos already putting in good seats. Now he has got no excuse to put in a full leather interior, like sitting inside a cow, himself. And that nags him.

[@ChristianMillerUS]

I still have my deposit in but I can't justify to spend the cost for this vehicle even in a basic form. $5K for a winch! Certainly there is inflation but that's just wrong. I think the Prado 250 will take my money.

[@andrewhurstcars]

Biggest problem with the Grenadier is the weight. Harry’s Garage weighed his at 2,950kg with just the driver on board. Doesn’t leave much capacity for passengers and luggage. It’s some 400kg more than the new Defender. That much extra weight is going to have a negative impact off-road. I don’t think your complaints about the Recaro seats are justified. People nowadays want a minimum standard of seat, and that Recaro in cloth trim is just that. Comparing it to the Jimny is also fruitless; that is no longer on sale in Europe due to emissions. Until you have actually driven one extensively, then this rant style monologue isn’t justified. It also comes across in a bad light given that you asked to work with Ineos in development, and they said no to you.

[@imnotusingmyrealname4566]

oh wow I did not know that, I really wanted to know what waa the reason for his shift of opinion, first it was that it's built in France but this video was still a surprise to me how negative it is his rant makes no sense, no company today can start making something extremely basic, you could start an agricultural machine manufacturing company 100 years ago but not today it's also very funny how in the video on the updated 70 series he praises it to the high heavens that it has an automatic and is sad because the seats are the same old shit😂 and he said Toyota looks out for the enthusiasts because they added the narrow body indicators, even on the Toyota Gibraltar Stockholdings website they talk about how legendary the Land Cruiser is, and just copying an old design of yours is neither bold nor brilliant also as if every 70 Series doesn't look the same with ARB bullbar, ARB winch and all the same other stuff I just really really wished Mercedes still sold the solid front axle G-Class to civilians, that would wipe the floor with the 70 Series exceeding it in everything

[@Alaster-]

Haven't seen Harry's garage, but I do know a lot of the weight of the Ineos over other comparable vehicles' is down to the standard options that don't get counted on other vehicle weights. There's a whole bunch of standard stuff on the Ineos that is add-on for most other vehicles, especially something like the 70 series, that is standard on the Ineos. Stuff like full underbody protection, front and rear bars, tow bar, sound deadening, roof racks, pre-installed wiring looms, air bags... Weigh a fully loaded 70 series and it will be touching 3T as well - my brother's 78, that wasn't fully loaded, came in at ~2700kg.

[@andrewhurstcars]

@@Alaster- I’m comparing like for like on the road weight out of the dealership, and in that scenario even with a tow bar, the Grenadier still weighs some 400kg more than a new Defender, 2,850kg vs 2,400kg. Don’t forget the live axles on the 70 and Grenadier weigh a lot more than independent suspension.

[@Alaster-]

@@andrewhurstcars yeah that's kinda my point, like for like doesn't exist between the Ineos and most others as standard off-road kit on the Ineos is not counted. Along with the drive train components you mentioned, there's also a bunch of aluminium and plastic on the Defender where there would be steel on the Ineos, not to mention a whole ladder frame. You're better off comparing the 200 series LC for weight (2665kg, before adding off-road kit). Realistically, the Ineos and Defender are not really the same class of vehicle, and shouldn't be cross-shopped. The Defender is a tarted up shopping trolley, for people who wish they could take it off road (even if it might be better off-road than many), and the Ineos has been made as a work horse that can handle offroad. I got told by Ineos Australia, on their proto tour, that hard-core 4x4 use wasn't as high a priority to them as mines, agriculture, NGOs and commercial. It kind of shows too, as it's proving to have some design features that don't lend well to modifying.

[@thomassjcowley]

@@Alaster- having been under a Grenadier, all that 'underbody protection is tin. I'll get smashed up quick-smart and not protect it, particularly not the low hanging wheel speed sensors. There seem to be enough people taking new Defenders on expeditions successfully, so maybe it is a well-engineered vehicle and your opinion is poorly informed....

[@arconcritter]

My impression is that what Ineos was actually trying to create was a slightly more butch and slightly more “affordable” G-Wagon for urban “off-roaders”

[@stonemarten1400]

Correct, you’ll see a lot of them driven by wealthy mums on the school run - what a waste!

[@zelenizub2036]

Maybe they didn't go wit G wagon i mind, but that's what they created. Cheeper G wagon.

[@ElevationEveryWeekend]

Scott Brady from Expedition Portal just took delivery of his year long Grenadier loaner in South Africa and will be driving North thru the continent. It should be a good and balanced test of this vehicle.

[@chihweiteng253]

that's what he's sore about.

[@jjames2162]

Brady is a lot of things but objective, intentional, and critical of vehicles and brands is not one of them. He can too many business interests between the journal and website to be able to be direct and honest

[@CJ-rk5eg]

@@chihweiteng253 yeah probably

[@charlesgunn9324]

As much as I really wanted a Troopcarrier. Grenadier for the win. Minus your 4 grand for acceptable seats in the Troopy the starting price of the Grenadier was the same at the time of my order. I still have heaps of mods planned but don't have to contend with major engineering issues like the underslung leaf springs, wheeltrack correction and no passenger rear doors. Also check out the location of the stater motor on the Grenadier. It ticks a lot of boxes and I bet for a lot less than an equivalent fitted out Troopy or 300. You'll come round eventually!

[@stevengunter4990]

But the troopy is propably the more robust and reliable car. Its overengineered to accomodate minesites etc. I on the other hand already towed my first grenadier. I think i would gladly pay 10% extra to get 50% more reliable car.

[@luisclaro3386]

You can correct the troopcarrier wheeltrack easier than the left foot issue on the grenadier (LHD)... also, good luck with that BMW engine and Hitech gearbox... lets see how many mechanics in the middle of Africa can take care of it...

[@doyle4140]

Absolutely true

[@karelleroux3214]

It seems to me that nothing is ever good enough for this guy. He loved the defender……but ! It’s gone !!! Hats off to you Grenadier

[@dominiccox8294]

Enthusiasts won’t make the vehicle viable so you have to appeal to a wider customer base, look 3 to 5 years down the road at the second hand market and that’s where you will find the enthusiasts just like the 79 series

[@stonemarten1400]

Second-hand values for 3 year old hardcore off-roaders in the UK are absolutely bonkers, not far off the original purchase prices. I think there’s a deliberate policy to restrict these vehicles only to the wealthy, as another example of the ongoing war on motor enthusiasts.

[@dominiccox8294]

@@stonemarten1400 interesting statement.

[@aquilaphotofilm]

I kinda disagree, look at the jimmy and why it's such a hit. Loads of people loved the original and the new one is basically a comfortable modern version that is perfect for the enthusiast to customise and play around with. I see more customised ones than stock ones.

[@stonemarten1400]

@@aquilaphotofilm You can only by a commercial variant of the Suzuki Jimny in the UK now, due to emissions standards. It has a bulkhead and cage behind the front seat. Someone above average height will find it very uncomfortable if not undriveable. The new price is also high and second hand prices often above the original value.

[@escdefender]

@@stonemarten1400 you must be fun at parties, Mr tin foil hat. No wonder your wife cheats on you!

[@alexwbakker]

I have watched this channel a long time, but I think you go a bit far here in speaking for “the community”. I for one am happy to buy a vehicle that is basically done, and will require minimal mods. I’ve never liked having to pull diffs apart or chop frame mounts just to make a car clear the shocks and tires I want. Yeah, it’s expensive, but it’s not really very expensive compared with similar size vehicles that I would need to put a lot of time and money into to get them working the same. I do wish we had a diesel in the US, though.

[@Lawrencedukeb4]

I was so excited about the Grenadier. When I heard they were putting their USA headquarters in my city (Raleigh, NC), I was even more excited. I’ve been to all of their events within 500 miles. I’ve held a paid reservation for several years. I guessed they would be above their initial target price of $50k, but not by $40k. I can’t justify it. Two years of dreaming for naught. The value for money just isn’t there.

[@tomasarndt8139]

Guess a stripped version is on it’s way for the future. All car manufacturers start with the upgraded versions first, later adding the basic version.

[@v666fromhell6]

Yeah I mean, look at Tesla when they started out with the first generation Roadster which shared parts with Lotus sports car.

[@promenteryrobbins]

The Grenadier seats are really good - supportive & comfy. And the overhead switches mean I can just bolt on the roof lights and elec accessories I chose - the wiring’s already ‘plumbed in’. And the build quality is better than the old Defender - it’s more like the old G-Wagon - really, really ‘tough’ - but safe as well. I think you should take one for a test drive, and then you’ll see that the Grenadier really is a no-frills, highly capable and customisable 4x4 (in base form), but built for the modern age, to modern safety standards, highly customisable, doesn’t leak or make you feel uncomfortable when driving. I think Ineos got the build and spec about right. And on the price, well, one has to pay for quality… It’s a ‘pass’ from me…

[@Dragontasticvideos]

You don't get the point either. He isn't saying it's a bad car. Just a bad car for enthusiasts who want to customize their Ineos to their liking, who don't have a huge load of cash sitting in the back. Yes, they are customizable, but the absolute base for the start of said customization already sets the bar high for anyone to enter. People have to pay a lot for features they might not even really need, which completely misses the mark for a cheap buildable machine you can modify exactly to the specification you want/need. Yes, less than the new Defender, but it still isn't the same as the old Defender, which this video is all about. It's about their claim to have completely replaced the "old" Defender, which they haven't.

[@martinuso7446]

@@Dragontasticvideos Have you called them and asked if you can buy a bare chassis? Another thing, if you want to customize your 4x4 you need to have a shitload of cash. You think those leather chairs and interior came with a box of cheerios?

[@cordellej]

@@martinuso7446 so buy one for 50 grand pre pimped . or buy a bare shell for 30 grand spend 15 grand on it to pimp it thats 45 grand total and i have a vehicle thats totally built MY WAY and cant be had from the factory like that and still have 5 grand to spend on fuel 🤔

[@martinuso7446]

@@cordellej So you called them and a bare grenadier costs 30.000? Or are you just fantasizing? The last one is ok but you wont get a good new 4x4 for 30.000,-Look at the Toyota 70 series. What does a trooper costs? 70-80.000? And that's a car with nothing on it. So I think your cunning plan won't fly.

[@cordellej]

@@martinuso7446 when someone dont comprehend what was said but replies to it , the idiocracity of the comment shows alot

[@duncanwallace7760]

I knew you were going to say 'Jimny' before you said it! A solid vehicle without too much fancy stuff is the most exciting place to start. My troopy didn't even have a basic entertainment system when I bought it, just blank slots, which I love.

[@santiagoavellino3]

as usual ... the best free consultation an offroad brand can have is listening to Andrew.

[@adrianh.callais7565]

Andrew, you are indeed a brave one. Thank you for explaining in depth the heart and soul of the vehicle. My concern would be in the drivetrain. Alloy engine blocks overall seem to have a shorter lifespan than the older cast iron versions. My guess is you would have a solid opinion in the difference of the two.

[@The_Opinion_of_Matt]

Andrew, you are correct in your conclusion. And while I could argue that the Recarro seats from the factory probably don't cost that much more than a uncomfortable seat that has been designed from scratch. And I could argue that having the wiring and switches in place make adding things later much easier. Neither of those change the fact that I can't justify spending the money (US) for base Grenadier. And if I configure it the way I want (about $8k more than base) from Ineos I still struggle to justify the price because the price is still too high because of the starting point is too high. But then a Billionaire is going to struggle to understand the finances of the working person, and so design choices were made. The Grenadier wasn't designed for the working class man or woman. It was designed for the "well off" and higher person because the people that made the design decisions are incapable of understanding the finances of the masses.

[@stephenhankey688]

No he's not right in his conclusion, I suspect that if he was to divulge the labour costs of his last troop carrier build , you'd be more than shocked, possibly double the cost of the Grenadier, ask the question,?see how the finances compare. 👍

[@The_Opinion_of_Matt]

@@stephenhankey688 You seem triggered. May just be coming across the wrong way in written words though. What is it that you think is Andrew's conclusion? I kind of doubt you remember what the question was. I'll remind you. The question was, "Is the Grenadier a replacement for the original LR Defender?". The conclusion was, "No, it isn't." The original Defender was a affordable, decent off roader, that was uncomfortable, unreliable and required constant maintenance and had the driving characteristics that were just this side of the tractor that is the Uni-mog. I'm not even saying it is a bad thing that the Grenadier isn't a replacement for the Defender. The Grenadier is indeed a lot better than the Defender in many, many ways. The base cost for just the vehicle is the problem. If it was US$60K then it would be a lot more justifiable. But at US$71K not enough people will buy the basic version to provide the incentive for the aftermarket to make parts for the Grenadier. Less aftermarket support for the Grenadier means people will buy a Jeep or a Toyota because they have the aftermarket support. Maybe the price of the Grenadier will come down in a few years. Or the rest of the market will raise their prices and the Grenadier will become more attractive to buyers. And yes, I'm aware the Andrew's 70-series builds likely exceed a $100k price tag. The price difference between the base Grenadier and the base 70-series is the difference in what one can afford to purchase aftermarket parts and have them installed.

[@markelliott6105]

Andrew has defined himself into a niche that only fits a Frankenstein troopy build. He’ll have to compromise on his “must haves” to do anything new. His Grenadier videos have been among his most viewed in the last couple of years so I can understand his frustration that it’s not a troopy.

[@tomaszsankowski6682]

What a pleasure to listen to someone sensible, unbiased and knowledgable. I’ve been going through reviews but they all sound like scripted ads, even though when critical, there’s something utterly annoying about them, some ‘watch the cool vid, get hyped’ urgency in the way it’s directed. Here I can hear an honest man, being on topic in a down to earth, yet entertaining way. Thanks for that.

[@4xoverland]

Someone has summed it up perfectly: It’s a vehicle with an identity crisis, initially aiming to be a British built, basic, cheap, utility vehicle, but ended up being an Austrian designed, French built, complex and expensive toy for the wealthy.

[@WheresJoseToday-im1gr]

Very frustrating!!! Such potential for an amazing blank canvas-and they splattered layers of paint all over it! I would rather they offer a model with canvas seats, crappy on road tires, no carpet, roll up windows, no radio… call it “The Sergeant” or “The Dragoon” or “The Snail”… whatever! Just offer a basic one as you said!!! And when you asked about what it offers over a Jeep, I opened my mouth to speak but you said it! Payload alone is a big deal, but again, too fancy. Hopefully they will listen to you and common sense. We shall see! Anyway, great review!

[@bushedge7067]

My Grenadier does not replace the Defender it is a big step up from the Defender and less expensive than LRJ current models 😃

[@markhobbs7945]

My view is the Grenadier pricing in Australia is quite realisitic especially vs recent and new Defenders not to mention LC 300 or Nissan YG 62 or the G wagon.

[@stebee9743]

Yeh, spend 100k on a LC79, then another 50k upgrading all the basic and uncomfortable stuff.

[@espkh1549]

Never buy Japanese cars.. please remember how many people they killed during last war

[@neiljessop3510]

@@stebee9743 I couldn't agree more. Buy a new vehicle and remove half, so you can promote sponsors products.

[@DanHall777]

Or maybe they are all over priced… How is the lc79 DOUBLE the price of a crew cab 4x4 hilux?

[@espkh1549]

@@DanHall777 don’t buy japs cars…. Remember ww2?

[@scottstewart2211]

Really well done review and hit the mark. I live in the northwest US and was initially extremely excited about the Grenadier. I was able to see the prototype tour when it came to Seattle in Jan 2022. The group was small and we were able to have a 2-hour Q&A. No performance figures were given, but it was heavily hinted that the starting price would be around $65k US. I thought that was a little on the high side - yes, it is capable, but looking at the North American market you’re pitting it against the Jeeps and Toyota 4Runner and Tacomas. The Jeeps are similar in pricing, but the 4Runner has better performance for significantly lower pricing. We had one that was $47k new (with tax) and had very good off-road performance. And the North American market pales to what you can get globally (i.e.70-series Land Cruisers, Hilux pickups, etc.). The storage was significantly less than the 4Runner, which surprised me. I had every intention before I viewed it of putting a deposit down to get my place in line, but the facts above combined with the lack of specification information at that time led me not to. With the pricing and specs finally released starting at $71k US and a fuel economy of 15mpg US, I honestly don’t see the appeal. I was so excited to see Ineos pick up the ball where Land Rover dropped it, but comparing it to similar types of Toyota products is really no comparison.

[@DanMasterBlaster]

The Ineos Grenadier is really more aimed at the Mercedes G wagon as a rival. In America, people looking at a G wagon, don’t even consider a Ford, GM or Toyota.

[@MattKester]

I got out of the offroad game last year when I sold my Discovery 1. Thought the Grenadier was going to be my reentry point until I hopped on their configurator and saw what base price was here in the US. There’s just no way I could justify spending that much. What I fear is going to happen with this vehicle, at least here where I live in Scottsdale, Arizona, is they’ll all be specced and bought by the same crowd that buys G-Wagons and those who coveted NAS Defenders into 6 figure pricing, meaning most people will only see them braving the wilds of the Scottsdale Fashion Center parking garage, and very few, if any, ever touching a tire to dirt.

[@live4mac]

For the US market I disagree with your assessment of stripping it out. The base price of the grenadier in the US is $71k US which is a lot of money, but realistically it's only $5-15k more than a Jeep wrangler Rubicon. From the onset this was going to be an enthusiast vehicle that needed mass market appeal to survive. The standard buyer won't be doing expeditions across Africa or Australia and most people that can afford new cars like this are going to have well above average income or wealth. The base drivetrain and body for the vehicle likely makes up the first $60k and the creature comforts might make up the last $10k. Nobody that can afford a $60k vehicle is going to want to give up those power windows, climate control, or nicer seats. The most basic 4dr Jeep wrangler is $38k, but almost every one on the dealer lots are $50k+. The new Ford Bronco can easily hit $70k MSRP as well. New car buyers want the features and Grenadier has to have broader market appeal than just wealthy enthusiasts.

[@obusventer4798]

My dreams were also crushed by the high price tag. I agree that there should be a bare bones basic version. However. I think we're making two errors 1. Overestimation of the cost for the fancy stuff. 2. Underestimating the cost of engineering this vehicle. By design it will be expensive to make. The fancy stuff is added to enlarge appeal. As the sales fugures on the Wrangler, Gwagen Professional and the old Defender suggests, the market for a true bog standard vehicle is really small.

[@stevengunter4990]

Problem with a gclass professional isnt that there is no market here(germany) it just starts at like 50-60k euros...... a ranger or hilux is less than 45 brand new most of the time with all amenities; a barebones ranger costs 29k less than half the price of the gclass professional. And i know that they arent really comparable offroad wise, but most people would rather lift a 35K ranger and then struggle at some spots, instead of outright paying double for a grenadier or gclass

[@4xoverland]

you can buy three Jimnys for the price of one of these. Don't tell me it can't be done. They didn't try. They lost track of costs when the Austrians started on the engineering. They built a G-Wagen. Not a Defender.

[@ronnyermel8851]

i am also a owner of a greadier. for me is it a masterpiece. also the parts what i can buy form the factory is amazing. why i should spend more money for a winch if i can buy it from the factory? i think its a perfect way to buy it out of the factory with stuff i normally would by in the aftermarket. only the tuning circle is very bad. the suspension is great. also fully loaded. also verny good with 100kg on the roof. the car drives much much better that i expected on the road and offroad. the price yeah its too high. it is

[@stephenhankey688]

Well said 👏

[@xpeditionoverland]

Each eeeeeccchhhh! You're right, On INEOS journey they have missed all the road signs telling them to make it basic. Also, I agree with your take on Jimny. You need to mention that Suzuki needs to make the Jimny XL, the one we would love to have in the States! Great video Andrew! I also enjoyed seeing you driving at high speeds.

[@Kevin-dp1vy]

Suzuki sell a 4 door XL Jimny in India

[@mattyolo]

Those defender seats were the stuff of nightmares 😂😂

[@GenproEnterprises]

I'm the same age as Andrew, purchased my first 4WD in Perth Western Australia in 1978 G60 three-speed box, a top speed of 100km with 15mpg. Drove it back across the Nullabor to Adelaide. I joined the Australian Army the same year Engineers and learned how to drive trucks, land rovers, Unimogs, Kenwoths, Scamals, and Fords and the recovery of all vehicles. I had every Nissan patrol up to 2002 where I changed over to Land Rover 2 Discovery td5 and in 4 years of ownership had the rear engine seal replaced 3 times. I went to the Discovery 3 which was a fantasic 4wd and then a L320 Range Rover. I have 2 identical Discovery 2 V8 in my garage where they have been pulled down and rebuilt, new engines and a 2022 Pajero Sport. The discoveries tow twice as good as the Pajero and feel solid in comparison, both have ACE and I have towed each on a car trailer pushing the weight out to if not more than the 3500kg limit. The Pajero would not be capable of doing this. From being taught how to recover bogged 4x4, 4x6 vehicles in the Army as a civilian I have learnt not to get bogged or do something stupid to get bogged, leave it to all those 4wd cowboys on youtube. From following Andrew since he has set up in Australia one can see how passionate he is about 4wding and accessorising his 4wd's, but for me, I could follow him in any of my 4wd's and have no problems in stoke form. Most people don't have the luxury of having 2 vehicles and accessorising the 4wd where it carries every need for outback travel is not practical. For me I don't have a problem towing a camper trailer and the market has a size for every possible scenario so don't rule it out. I know Andrew is not a tow person so he has to deck his rig out to accommodate his needs. For me the 4wd industry has not developed a better 4wd than the Discovery 2 for ergonomics, practicality and function It is now over 20 years old, it's gone backwards. Personally, I think it's going to take a Chinese knock-off to enter the market for a wake up call to the industry. Just look at the amount of people going over to 4x4 trucks as an alternitive, that alone should be a wake up call!

[@Kevin-ee2tz]

Hi Andrew, Thanks for your insight, I believe there is merit in what you’re saying. I reside in Australia and had paid a reservation fee to reserve a Grenadier (as an early bird follower) but have since cancelled my order after test driving the pre-production model in North Qld. Personally, I believe there are more important issues with the Grenadier. A) Payload B) Fuel capacity and lack of available space to fit a long rang tank C) Right hand drive configuration Payload - I was disappointed in the poor payload given the hype and INEOS not dissuading all the forums when discussing a possible 1000kg payload throughout the RD phase. Let’s just do the Math. Grenadier Diesel Trailmaster, the variant of my choice, (90% fuel capacity, all liquids, no occupants) has 689kg payload as per recent published spec sheet (UK). Before I get all the replies saying that the above payload isn’t what’s in the AU brochure let me be very clear that I spoke with Ineos Reps when I test drove the vehicle and the above figure is correct for the Australia Trailmaster variant. Unfortunately, in the Australian brochure they only give weights for the base model and don't give you the weights for each variant (disappointing). I want to tow a 3500kg caravan, which is what the Grenadier is rated for. Standard rule 10% of ATM = 350kg. Take 350kg from payload of 689kg leaves me with 339kg payload. Be kind and put only two occupants in vehicle (too bad if you have kids) in my case, wife and I (170kg). 339kg minus 170kg = 169kg payload left. Only a 90ltr fuel tank in Grenadier which doesn’t work in Australia overlanding so either jerry cans or long-range fuel tank (another 90ltr to carry plus extra ad blu) let’s say 120kg. 169kg minus 120kg = 49kg. Now add on a winch - whoops! I can’t as that will overload me. But a winch is a must have in Australia’s outback. Then, if I want my bullbar (also a must in Australia) roof rack, recovery gear, tools/safety equip, Draw system to hold equip and any other basic accessories it’s not possible. I would have to go down the path of a costly GVM upgrade and really a GCM (which will require engineering, testing, and certification by some third-party company down the track if they decide to do it depending on number of sales. Could be a long wait? I did speak with ARB head office AU and they certainly have no appetite at present for GVM development. Fuel Capacity - 90 ltrs is simply a poor effort/design. Problem is when I spoke to Ineos Reps in AU about a long-range tank they stated the issue is the lack of available real estate under the car. As I want a diesel and the BMW engine requires Ad Blu there's already 20ltrs of space being taken up for Ad Blu tank. Ineos Reps told me there was an Australian company looking at a long rang tank however it appeared 20ltr was going to be max volume. Not enough. For Heaven’s sake my 2008 Prado 120 series has 180ltrs diesel fuel capacity standard from the factory! Right Hand drive Config - I'm 6,4" tall and while the Ineos wasn't as spacious as my 200 series I could live with it except that the massive footrest, which was never designed as a footrest but was a necessary raised floor pan to deal with the exhaust means that my left knee was up under my chin while the right knee was at a comfortable position on the accelerator. If you sit in the passenger front seat of a right-hand drive Ineos you will see what the footrest was meant to be, namely a smaller and much lower height which puts both your knees at an equal height in the normal driving position. And yes, for right hand drivers you do also sit slightly off centre as you pointed out in an earlier video of yours. The other little but big issue is that the ignition key is on the left of the steering wheel! Left handers will be clapping their hands but the majority of us are right handers and it's just frustrating to use and poor planning and lack of effort on Ineos’s part not to put the ignition on the right of steering column for countries that are right hand drive. My hope is INEOS will make changes in future models, where you can have the Trailmaster variant but with a 1000kg payload with proper size fuel tank/s 180ltr. And spend time and effort to properly configure for right hand drive Countries. Wasn’t that what the Grenadier was supposed to be - A Utilitarian 4 x 4 that you can ‘Load up’ - ‘Tow with’ for go anywhere off roading? I believe if Grenadier were to meet the above payload and fuel capacity specs and RH drive config sales would dramatically increase as they would become a class leader and not just another option. I’ll wait and hope.

[@shadowsocks7472]

Move to a left hand drive country, problem solved.

[@DanMasterBlaster]

Some valid points you’ve raised, however, carrying external jerrycans on lockable external cages left and right we’ll make up for that. You can comfortably get to 20 L jerrycans as a real left Panier and two on the right, which will give you an additional 80 L. Any more could go on the large roof rack. You mention the payload, but I can’t see that the Toyota land cruiser, Nissan patrol or indeed the Jeep wrangler has a superior payload. Finally, the ignition key being to the left of the steering wheel on the right hand drive is a very minor issue. Even a child should be able to put the key in with the left hand. This is also a good security feature for those people travelling through Africa, Middle East or Latin America, where people are carjacked at traffic lights and the key is taken out of the ignition through the open window. Much harder for a carjacker to take the keys hidden away between the steering wheel and the centre console.

[@mash5702]

Much appreciated this episode, when this dream started a number of years ago I wished for an updated Defender, but as the months rolled by and the coordinated news releases happened, my secret dream of Defender legacy been extended were slowly crushed. As you rightly state it is just another high status high price 4x4 which the original never was. I'll stick with my 105 and pay for my own upgrades and use my own hands to create my dream. ps. they could have charged more for a bog standard base model and made more money, doesnt make sense.

[@outlandyishrig2557]

Agree, I bought well looked after stock 105 GXL, 340 km,19k, spent 25+, only requires now diff locker and maybe auto upgrade, GVM and turbo engineered as well within 25k!

[@delwynhobbs3548]

Absolutely smashed the nail on the head! They are way to expensive for the people even interested in them.

[@stonemarten1400]

You’ll see lots of them driven by wealthy mothers on the school run, the polar opposite of whom should be buying these vehicles.

[@2157AF]

@@stonemarten1400 A sale is a sale.

[@stonemarten1400]

@@2157AFAye, true enough, but some might have buyers regret when negotiating a mini roundabout in the suburbs with the woeful 14m turning circle of the Grenadier!

[@mrknoch]

7:45 I said this, I believe, in the comments of your first video a couple years back when you covered the Ineos. I said this was just another lifestyle vehicle for rich guys and not a utility vehicle for all of the back roads of the world. Are there no companies that care about giving quality to people who aren't rich? I'm going into my second year, waiting for my ordered Ford Maverick. Ford was just paying lip service to the media when it was talking about releasing a budget pick up. VERY FEW inexpensive Mavericks are on the road. They always make the expensive orders first. Ineos: another plaything for rich guys. Love Andrew. Thanks for the honest videos.

[@atavachron27]

I do sense a bit of sour grapes here, as Ineos didn't respond to your requests to test a car. However, you are right on the cost aspect. Ineos have been marketing this as a no nonsense back to basics car but the cost doesnt reflect that. GWM are releasing the Tank 300 here in NZ and Australia that has everything the Grenadier has in terms of offroad gear, but is fully loaded with every comfort imaginable....for less than half the price of the Grenadier! And it has a 7 year unlimited miles warranty! 🤔

[@spudboy1328]

The Tank 300 has a payload of 394Kg. So you're not going to be taking much stuff on your overlanding trip in a Tank...

[@atavachron27]

@spudboy1328 people take far too much junk on trips in my view. It's more like glamping than overlanding!

[@spudboy1328]

@@atavachron27 I agree. We take almost 100L of water when we go remote, so there goes 100Kg of payload. That's never going to happen in a Tank 300.

[@JoeTimmons79]

Had one on order , found out MPG was 15MPG combined - bought a Jeep JL and love it.

[@peopleschamp7258]

Cool, so you saw the official EPA rating on the MPG. Cause the brochure is not the official number since they are still working on it. BTW, the EU guys using US standards are getting closer to combined 18 on their petrol which puts you right with you Jeep JL.

[@JoeTimmons79]

@@peopleschamp7258 the Jeep Wrangler gets an EPA-estimated 22 mpg combined - nice try though.

[@peopleschamp7258]

@JoeTimmons79 Joey, Joey baby, you might want to get your eyes checked. I thought maybe Joey kid is right and I was wrong. It happens. I went on Jeep's site and everyone I looked at had 17 city and 22 highway with combined of 20. The 392 was 13 city and 17 highway with 15 combined. I also noticed that jeep can only tow 2k pounds.

[@goingoverland6403]

@@peopleschamp7258 I am getting 24 mpg combined on road with my Jeep JLU 3.6 auto. I am easy on the gas, but that 8 Speed transmission really helps improve the fuel economy.

[@anandasharma1041]

Simply brilliant! You've hammered the nail on its head!

[@dustinortegon]

If only the U.S. 4x4 market was that simple. Everyone screams that they want a "Basic" 4x4, but then you read the forms about the Grenadier and they are screaming it's TOO basic with the manual seats, basic climate controls, and lack of smart cruise control, etc. Lets not pretend that the American consumer would spend the 75K+ AUD or the 55K USD on a new 70 series with the ride of a stage coach and the interior of an early 2000's pickup truck. And as a 4x4 enthusiast, I am bored to death with the Jeep. Everyone and their mother drives one, modded ones are a dime a dozen, and they are a handful to drive. I agree, the price is a bit steep, but am thankful to finally have something with triple lockers, manual H and L select, and doesn't look like every other soccer mom vehicle on the road these days. And I personally LOVE the overhead console. I dig the passion! Keep up these stellar reviews.

[@all4outdoor738]

Lol “ 13:23 will only stay dry if it doesn’t rain” love it!

[@PeteFromOZ]

Andrew I’ve followed you for a number of years as I make decisions on how to enter the overlanding community and find your content brilliant. As we will tow an off-road van for some of our travels our vehicle choice narrowed down to a landcruiser or grenadier. The quote for a GXL with a bull bar and tow bar was $3k more expensive than a heavily optioned grenadier trialmaster. I understand the point you make however the ineos is more affordable than a basic landcruiser. Comfortable seats are an option we would have opted for in a vehicle we plan to spend a lot of time in. Time will tell if we have made the right decision with the grenadier. There is also a big advantage for those of us not as mechanically capable as you in having warranties from the factory for accessories. I am interested in your commentary after driving a production vehicle. I don’t care so much about ineos replacing the old Land Rover, I’m more interested in whether the grenadier is a good vehicle and whether it represents value for money.

[@steved1385]

Andrew is NOT mechanically capable, his videos prove that. His more of a driver come film maker. Making the comments he does on the engineering of other cars is usually subjective and not based on anything other than personal preference.

[@ThemoosemanT]

You are quite right, an ineos squaddie would sell heaps. I'd've bought one. I considered a Grenadier but even at the initial price it made more sense to spend a quarter of the cost restoring and updating my Defender.

[@borkonikolcic6260]

I just delivered another 2023 Ram 2500 Crew Cab SXT 4x4 6 passenger truck with 6'4" box. 6.4 L Hemi. Payload 1460kg and 7000 kg towing capability. Anti-spin rear differential. Solid front and rear axles. Alberta Canada $67k taxes included. That would be close to 75k Australian dollars. I agree, it uses 14.5 liters in the city. Our gas ⛽ in Calgary is $1.28 for regular. For overlanding nothing beats it price and payload wise 👌

[@MattBlack6]

A base model Troopy is $75k The base model Grenadier is listed on Redbook as being $97,000. But it seems that you could not buy a brand new troop carrier for $75,000 for love nor money. Dealers have them listed for $100,000 or more with 50 or 60 km on the clock

[@SamSamSands]

This video clip would have come out quite differently if Ineos had Andrew on board, this would have helped them by using his experience & inputs while designing the all new Granadier. Andrew also seems to be displeased not getting the importance he expected from Ineos as a veteran off road journalist. They missed the opportunity by leaving out someone who is regarded by many as an expert in off road vehicles.

[@thejonoaffair]

I agree. I was going to consider buying one, but NOT AT THAT PRICE! My guess is they had to release them at the price they did in order to try and recover early production costs and some initial R&D. I'm sure once production ramps up and time draws on, they'll be able to sell them a little less expensively and expand on the range.

[@espkh1549]

Why? I like the price so I won’t be driving the same 4wd those redneck losers or teenagers drive

[@jonesySi]

Except they’ve already increased the price significantly

[@AKNigel]

It was a cool story in the beginning. Brit carrying the banner of a British heritage 4x4. Named after a British Pub. It immediately sold out with French manufacturing.

[@CharlesThornton-js7zt]

I am not a True off Rhoader. I have owned 1 Jeep Cherokee Sport and loved it. But I am quite fond of your reviews as you give the pros and cons and to whom they matter. Your experience and knowledge base is admirable, your plain language honesty clear and refreshing. You seem to care only for the facts. Well done.😊

[@davidgomesdonascimento5463]

Look, even with Land Rover built the same defender as back in days again, someone would complain. Plain and simple, nothing can replace that and the memories it created because it was built in a different world. Honestly, I think the important is to have a reliable, capable and good car.

[@MilGrip76]

Expensive? Yes. Too many standard options, perhaps. Let's be honest. In, now, 2023, even most enthusiasts don't want to drive an ox cart. The Defender goes too far in the plush direction, while the Ineos is probably a bit more balanced, without sacrificing some much needed improvements to bring it more current. Only manual, limited engines... the old Defender. That aged it prematurely imo.

[@zanez14]

Couldn't have put it better myself. Would have loved a basic version here in the US.

[@runesteinsnnkristoffersen5641]

I think , I will keep my 2013 Defender ,with 205000 km on the clock, a `couple of years more`🤔 Then maybe Ineos have made a `stripped version` of the Grenadier . Good video 👍

[@IM_AKEEM]

just put a bmw diesel M57 or N57 into your defender... you will get better pulling power, get tokeep your defender and much cheaper than a Grenadier...

[@terrysweitzer6772]

All of us purists sing the same song!!! All we truly want is a great platform that is rugged and we can modify to fit our own unique needs. Truly practical off road focused vehicles are getting harder every day to find, and when something promising arrives on the horizon, we always seem to find disappointment with certain aspects of the construction. Jeeps are wonderful off road, but sorely lacking in the practicality aspect. I stand with you on this subject, just offer a stripped down version with basic features at a good price, and let us do the rest. Thanks for all you do, you are truly one of my favorite creators period. Cheers from the USA!

[@joezephyr]

The Jeep JK stopped manufacture 5 years ago. I am surprised that Andrew does not know that.

[@Torus2X]

Other than you, there isn't an auto journalist out there that would give a positive review to a stripped out Grenadier. The market demands a certain level of fit, finish and features. If the seats are crap, there goes any good reviews from journalists and the car wont sell. Just about every review I've seen, from a journalist, they simply LOVE the seats. Who wants to buy a cheap vehicle with school bus seats, then go find replacement seats just to make the driving experience somewhat decent? Not many people want that type of experience. In your scenario, you buy a new Ineos, then spend months customizing it to how you want it as the seats are terrible from day one. Just about everyone wants a vehicle that is good in every aspect from the start. Sure they will modify things over time, but most people want a vehicle ready to go right out of the showroom. What you are suggesting is basically like buying a brand new project car. I think your approach is better suited to the used car market. Go find a vehicle you like that is used and needs lots of things replaced. Then you can custom tailor the vehicle to how you want it. Ineos is off to a good start and many of their accessories are made by other manufactures who know the accessory market. Take the roof rack and winch as examples.

[@escdefender]

Andrew, a couple things. 1) there are already aftermarket solutions for roof racks, bullbars, rock, sliders, step rails, etc. 2) the original price for the Grenadier at least in North America was going to be at least $10,000 less but due to the outrageous inflation in the world ineos had to change the price of the vehicle to make it more profitable for them. It’s a real bummer but when you price a fully loaded jeep wrangler Rubicon X, it’s about 7 to 8 grand more but provides a full structural hardtop, more storage space heavier duty undercarriage, far greater payload and yes more unique feel so I think ultimately it is worth it. 3) the jeep JK has not been around since 2016. It is now called a JL since that debuted in 2018. If you don’t get your terminologies right nobody’s going to take you seriously. 4) lastly, let’s face it for all your talk about wanting them to put some stupid little seat in the car and have some burlap dashboard and make it ultimately super cheap and plasticky and crappy just to get the price down means that you’re literally an old ass dinosaur in today’s world. Anybody like you who wants to have a vehicle basically be exactly like an original defender that started in 1984 is seriously diluting them selves in today’s world. I guarantee you the changes that ineos made are going to make the vehicle a better seller overall, if you don’t like the fact that it cost too much, then it’s time to start making more money. Period. or just keep buying old ass cars and being your typical old man jealous self yelling at the clouds.

[@bernardmccann7676]

Way over priced no foot room for driver shit seats horrible driving position who wants switched up above your head need them wher you can see them they missed the boat I’m afraid KISS

[@mark2073]

How do you cut off the roof of a Grenadier and add a pop top with all that electronic junk up there? There's a reason my vehicles are 23, 25 and 42 years old.

[@escdefender]

@@mark2073 supposedly alucab is working on this as we speak, and if you don’t like it, keep your 42 year old truck forever and die alone sad and scared at change in the world.

[@kadmow]

@@mark2073 - rewiring, or deleting that electrical junk is all in a days work for any AE tech. Chopping off the roof still just takes a sawzall.

[@w00ey21]

Yeah strange i thought, he kept harping about "price for the enthusiast" yet most "enthusiasts" in Aus will buy a land cruiser for 120k and then spend another 80-100

[@taurota1554]

awesome as always.thanks for sharing and taking us along

[@CJ-rk5eg]

Agree that the Grenadier is expensive and there is a need for a less expensive edition. The base in the US is $71,900. Compare that to the Base Jeep Wrangler and yes, no comparison. But compare to the equally specd Wrangler Rubicon, then one is easily approaching the same price range. An important difference is that the Jeep does not offer 3 locking differentials. But it does offer a disconnecting front sway bar. When you start adding options to the Grenadier you can end up at $95K easily, which is same territory as the Jeep Wrangler Rubicon 392. Trade offs are everywhere - price / engine / interior space / payload / locking diffs / roof payload / and on and on. Just pick the one that is best for you! I disagree with Andrew that Grenadier as the “successor” to the Defender has failed. It is not the successor. Only JLR could do that and chose not to do so. Grenadier is INSPIRED by the Defender, Jeep, Land Cruiser, original Bronco, and every other solid axle vehicle 4x4 every made. It is it’s own answer to the question “what makes a great off road vehicle ?”

[@jerryjustfnride4467]

Brilliant Andrew! Couldn't agree more!

[@jeremymurfitt1512]

Interesting points. If JLR were to upgrade/renew the Defender (ie ladder chassis version), maybe bring in some new engines etc etc I wonder what the cost would be? I expect higher then you would think/like. A small UK manufactures and automotive consultant was saying only last week that major components/parts have increased in price by 30 to 40% over the past two years. I guess they will also be looking at potential world markets and looking to see if they are enough potential sales to "enthusiasts" to produce a stripped down basic version? Another thought is that the same vehicle many of the utility companies would like.

[@cyclemoto8744]

JLR have no interest....Cheers

[@markp4668]

Careful old boy this clip could be perceived as sourer grapes because you weren't invited to their South African pow wow.

[@lunamaria1048]

I clicked thumbs up and seen i'm not subscribed for some reason. I have been subbed forever! Great job KZbin... Thanks for this wonderful video! I always appreciate the wisdom you share!

[@yeti5631]

100% right, the Grenedier is not what the company promised. I was all set to buy one until the "basic" spec and price was revealed, it is of no use to me in its current state.

[@brendanfennell3552]

I attended the Goodwood festival of speed last week at Chichester in England like many motoring enthusiasts , and I wandered over to the Ineos stand to check out the current and upcoming versions most in the Right Hand Driver versions , The new Quartermaster Pickup version collected a lot of attention , although the rear seats in the cab are bit tighter than the station wagon version, I liked as a farmer the Agricultural version with the rear flat floor behind the front pair of seats and thee mesh guard ,great for collected newly born lambs out in the paddock or tossing in a couple of bales of hay as well, and there were some European Military Officers there commenting on the Quartermaster pickup as a replacement for the thousands of old Land Rover Defenders currently in use with all the Nato Forces in Europe

[@stephenhankey688]

Hey Jeremy Clarkson has stated its not a farmers 4x4 SO you can't have ONE 🤣🤣

[@brucerobinson3447]

As a 28 year old customized Defender tdi owner, well said Andrew. I agree with you 100%. The Defender was not perfect but that gave the enthusiest the ability to improve it, modify it, customize it, and make it unique and work for his/her requirements. And if you drilled a hole in the body in the wrong place, you just filled it with a rivet and nobody would notice. I also don't mind scratching or denting my Defender because that just adds to the character. I want a tough utlitarian vehicle that has military qualifications when I venture forth into deepest Africa.

[@lornestenabaugh8685]

This is by far the best review of any auto, your right on they made a one only kind of upscale 4 by 4 excluding the rest of the natural world of drivers. I drove a Suzuki a long time ago it was rough,uncomfortable,no gadgets, loud but boy in off-road use it couldn’t be beat. So to conclude a bunch of very wealthy people built a off road limousine that only their kind can afford. Again great review.

[@4xoverland]

yes!

[@mindtraveller100]

So, the way i see it, Suzuki has the opportunity of a lifetime. If they make something similar to the Jimny, but 50% bigger...

[@stonemarten1400]

They also need to change the engine in the Suzuki Jimny - the 1.5 litre normally aspirated petrol doesn’t cut it for power, economy or emissions.

[@mindtraveller100]

@@stonemarten1400 I agree.

[@karenlee7060]

Look at a GWM Tank........

[@Coenster1]

This review sounds more like jealousy than an honest review. If you want a Landcruiser, Andrew, buy one. That’s why OEMs differentiate.

[@mjcavender1230]

One of your finest videos. Everyone hopes they will listen to you. Thanks for making this video. 👍🏻👍🏻

[@dadventuretv2538]

They built a legit offroader for the Range Rover crowd. The only problem is, the Range Rover crowd doesn’t offroad. Here is the perfect example of what you are saying (someone can correct me if I’m wrong)- there is only one winch which will fit that they had specially designed by Warn and you have to buy from Grenadier. And man is it expensive. Like 2.5 what my after market bumper and winch cost, plus I did it myself with my kid and a buddy, which is what I wanted- there is a joy I get every time I look at it knowing that. I love the Grenadier. Very cool vehicle. And now the pick-up truck, which much better fits my needs. But you are 100% correct about price. It doesn’t look terrible at first glance, but build one out. Spec’d as closely as possible to my Jeep Gladiator, meaning with only the off-road essentials and a couple niceties which I refuse not to have (like heated seats and a good stereo) it is $88,000 US. That is over $25,000 more than my Gladiator would go for today, even including the Alucab Canopy (not the camper). And you still have 31.5 inch tires, which means it still needs wheels and tires and a lift. And here’s the thing about the load capacity- sure it’s great, but where does it go? Seats don’t fold flat. It’s not THAT big inside. So it all goes on the outside. I hate that. I hate having everything strapped to the outside of my rig. I know I know, it certifies one’s outdoorsy cred to the world, like the hiking shoes or Tevas people wear all the time, but I hate it. Sure in the 60s that’s how it was, cause that’s how it had to be given the rigs back then. But there are so many options today. Grenadier is not quite as capable it appears as Wrangler or Bronco for outright wheelin’, but not as good of. an overlander as a pick-up with a cap (Gladiator, ZR2, Taco, Ranger, Frontier Pro-4x), and way more expensive with unknown reliability compared to a 4-Runner and even probably the Land Cruiser that is coming back. So while I think it is really cool, I can’t figure out a use scenario for it. I bought my LR4 because as a kid I always loved the Disco. I overpaid for a veh that was harder to mod than others for nostalgia. And I loved it. But the Grenadier has no nostalgia. Euro-built? Pfft. Who cares. I’m not buying a veh for that. I’m beyond buying things as status symbols. I hope it does well. I hope enough people from Potomac and Great Falls and McLean buy these so they can look really cool when they go to Tyson’s 2, I just wonder if it will, at least here in the US.

[@iamoutofideas13]

I was extremely interested in the Grenadier, and wowed by their initial cost estimates. When the vehicle finally became available for sale I was dismayed by the final cost of the vehicle. Just as Andrew says, this has become a wealthy enthusiast's vehicle and that is a shame. I hope Ineos is able to refine their manufacturing processes in the future to cut costs and make this an accessible platform for enthusiasts as well as normal folks.

[@adamarnold1551]

Andrew, is the GWM TANK much different to the INEOS? And at half the price? Would love you to do a real world review.

[@leangrypoulet7523]

Whilst I came for Andrew's pass or fail assessment of the Grenadier, this is actually the best summary of what it means to be a 4x4 enthusiast and what we want from our base vehicle. This is the video he should have made BEFORE LR started designing their new SUV, sorry, Defender, although the mad professor would have probably ignored it anyway. But equally, Ineos should NOW take heed and launch a stripped down basic model, for those who want to tinker. LR have discarded 70 years of experience/heritage of making Utility vehicles (that are basic, cheap and entirely modifiable) in the search for pounds/dollars from the Urban SUV market, what a shame. Ineos have sought of found themselves stuck between the two. Neither quite completely in the utility vehicle market, nor in the bling urban runaround market. They need to address the first potential market as a matter of some urgency. If they do, they could shift many many more units.

[@motorhead69ification]

I agree 100% Andrew, as a previous Defender owner I think I'll stick with my pickup until Ineos decides to strip the Grenadier.

[@cbbbbbbbbbbbb]

Couldn't agree more. Day 1 preoeder here. I canceled the day they announced the American prices. That's not what I signed up for nor is it what they marketed as. Like you said, the accessories are great, but I would like to pick and choose to spend my money where I want. Nailed this review and I'm truly sad as I was looking forward to getting one.

[@escdefender]

What’s it like being poor?

[@cbbbbbbbbbbbb]

@@escdefender When you say poor, do you mean someone who makes responsible financial decisions? What idiot pays for something that they don't want, whether it's $0.01 or $1,000,000?

[@alexsystems2001]

I agree, I was an early wait lister with a deposit. I took my money and bought a brand new somewhat optioned Lexus GX460 for $11,000 LESS than the Grenadier. The base Grenadier doesn’t have lockers just like my GX, BUT my GX has a tow package for $11,000 less, and power seats, and double glazed glass, and 3 zone climate control, and a V8, and Toyota reliability, Toyota service and parts network, a gauge cluster, built in sat nav, a fantastic stereo and it’s built on the LC prado platform. I don’t understand if you take out all luxury goods out of a car, and you replace those luxury goods with a beefy front axle… still where does the extra $11,000 come in?

[@trevorhicks7852]

You're right on the money with this one, Andrew. Everything is so lavish and ridiculously expensive, and really not what I want. I think I'll just totally refurbish my existing tourer and still be $30k better off.

[@reichlha1968]

Missing video footage with loaded cars is a very good point. Given the idea that this car should be an overlander as well they should also promote the strength within that area.....

[@christianustvedtkavli3169]

In Norway this ridiculous vehicle costs 195,000 USD before you start ticking of on the extras. It's twice as much as the Wrangler.

[@10ECWalker615]

I can’t agree more about Ineos missing the mark. When Ineos first made their announcement about the Grenadier a few years ago, I had just sold my LC fj55. I loved every rusty spot, dent, and even the duck tape trying to cover the spring poking through the rear seat. I couldn’t wait to see each new announcement from Ineos. It was going to be basic and utilitarian. A simple vehicle you could work out of. Just like you Andrew, my heart sank when I saw the pricing. Here in the states, just north of $73,000. To me, this isn’t a vehicle to bang around in. This has become another luxury SUV. I also agree Ineos needs to have a stripped down version. Let the buyer build it up to fit their needs ,to have it BUILT FOR THEIR PURPOSE.

[@escdefender]

Oh look can you hear that?? It’s the whaaaaaaambulance!!!

[@stevengunter4990]

​@@escdefender you make a very compelling argument......the man is annoyed about one of the most important metrics a car can be measured in, PRICE and he thinks its too high, i would hardly call that an uncalled for comment. But thank you for enriching us with your insightful commentry

[@escdefender]

@@stevengunter4990 do I hear a little violin playing? Oh yes I do!! 🎻

[@stevengunter4990]

@@escdefender very grown up comment again, but i am not the violin kind of guy, i prefer pianos, there is a lot of sad tunes you can play on those aswell.

[@escdefender]

@@stevengunter4990 you must be fun at parties🥱💤

[@exmoorprinters1052]

Andrew, you are absolutely correct, I didn’t even quite know why I was so disappointed in the grenadine but everything you said has completely articulated my thoughts. Jimmy XL would be the way forward

[@bonjovi1354]

Jimny xl ?? Or 5 door jimny

[@andysaunders3708]

Although, Andrew, the Wg/WJ Grand Cherokee was a monocoque, but Porsche got involved, and, yep, it was still a monocoque. However, it was terrifically strong, with live axles, and they could, and still, be modified like crazy. I'm not a particular Jeep fan, having owned a ZG/ZJ Grand Cherokee ORVIS Editions, and 2 WG/WJ Grand Cherokee Overlands. 4.7 High Output OHC V8s on the last 2, and the blue one was taken off the road at 413,000km. That was a bloody stupid move on my part, as it was still stock, and road-legal - I became paranoid about valve seats dropping, as that is fatal to the HO engines, as you cannot repair the heads, (alone), for less than NZ $4K each. The silver one got sold, as I sold it at half the mileage, but Covid destroyed my business. I had to pay the bills, so off it went. I regret parting with the later2 - wasn't too fuss about the Orvis, even though is was the only one in the Southern Hemisphere. I sincerely don't believe that I'd buy another Jeep. Too, too many issues Your suggested version of the Ineos sounds attractive, but their being BMW-powered puts me off a hell of a lot, as I've had 2 consecutive awful BMW experiences. I agree about the Jimny, and I'm seeing more and more of them on the road here in NZ. They're a serious option.

[@tomhirschel8524]

Great video, so true. Less stuff, less weight. Back to basics. All car manufacturers are doing the same.

[@khaleda.7244]

This is the best review I have seen, and I have seen all the major ones. Right on mark sir

[@andrewhurstcars]

This isn’t a review, it’s a monologue opinion piece to camera. Watch L2SFBC Robert Pepper’s impartial off-road review, and Harry’s Farm hands-on review.

[@buschtaxi75driver55]

@@andrewhurstcars No but it is spot on regarding the one and only question why they did built it in the first place: is it a worthy replacement and surely, it is not !

[@TopOfTheRiverKangarooisland]

@@andrewhurstcars Robert Pepper's review wasn't impartial, he is a pom and loves pommy (crap) vehicles.

[@andrewhurstcars]

@@TopOfTheRiverKangarooisland lol, well at least he took it out on the trails and actually experimented with the diff locks etc, rather than just a rant to camera!

[@andrewhurstcars]

@@buschtaxi75driver55 the old Defender never sold in big numbers, so it wouldn’t make sense for a company to develop a new model that agricultural in such low numbers.

[@tonysmith26]

The thing with having a stripped down version is it may have the opposite impact on cost unless that’s the only one they make. As soon as variations come into manufacturing, complexity also gets added and then costs go up.