5:1 Pulley System with a Petzl Reverso

This video demonstrates how to set up a 'Complex 5:1' with a Petzl Reverso. The word 'complex' in this context does not mean it's complicated- it simply refers to the fact that the 2:1 pulley was incorporated inside the 3:1 to add up to a 5:1. If the 2:1 was on the outside, it would be a 'compound' pulley and would create a 6:1. (note: we will post other videos that will explain these fundamental concepts soon. If you are interested in more info on pulleys, subscribe to the SIET channel!)
Note that the Reverso acts as a 'progress capturing device' as it allows slack to feed into the device but not back out, much like a one-way valve. However, it adds quite a bit of friction to the system. With a 3:1 pulley, it is very difficult to haul someone for more than a few feet, and that is if you can haul them at all. The 5:1 shown in this video will allow you to increase the mechanical advantage and haul with more ease.
This video was reviewed by 2 or more AMGA Certified Guides and/or SIET Instructors and produced by industry professionals. However, this video may contain misinformation, may lack important details, may assume a certain knowledge base by the viewer, and is not intended for novices. SIET and it's employees and affiliates, recommend professional training for anyone taking part in mountaineering/climbing/skiing activities and attempting to implement skills demonstrated in these videos. Videos produced by SIET should not be used as a substitute for professional instruction!
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[@sierrabcski]

Thanks for creating and posting these! All of your videos are excellent. Much appreciated!

[@gregpetliski7271]

Thanks for making this short sweet and concise!

[@2rfg949]

you can get a lot more power and reduce your effort/fatigue by redirecting the pull strand through another pulley (carabiner) at the anchor so that you are pulling down using your body weight to lift the climber rather than the awkward pulling up motion in the video. You're probably aware of that but just mentioning it for people not as experienced.

[@HeyNylo]

Absolutely! Pulling upwards or pushing the haul end above your position as demonstrated puts your strength at a poor ergonomic disadvantage. You want to pull down with your body weight and large lat muscles.

[@sebastianloessl7982]

well, you need the keep in mind however that you will actually only be pulling with half your body weight due to the friction from the last redirect carabiner. Also, you can wrap the rope around your back and be pushing up with your leg muscles. I also used to be a big fan of redirecting the rope through a highpoint, but after doing the math on how much friction is at play in such a system, i am quite unsure of it. For example, in reality the systems shown here are only just about a 3:1, by adding the redirect it becomes a 1.5:1

[@danstheman33]

Great video! Two points: - In practice I really think you should put a backup safety knot on the brake end of the rope before completely letting go to setup any haul system(especially because your ATC is upside-down in these videos). Just throw in any knot on a bite, and undo it before you start hauling. - When attaching a prusik loop, it's best to offset the knot from the middle, so you're not clipping the carabiner right on top of the knot forming the loop. That's just sloppy and makes the knot less secure. (Or use a sewn prusik)

[@boudibla4011]

No Backup required: Petzl Reverso in Plaquette mode is Full Strength system

[@smeghead666]

It's the future here, you were definitely wrong, that reverso (not atc) is in guide mode, the hole you see is a release hole for a carabiner to release the braking action when under load

[@nipunikakedia9081]

I love the back end of the rope method

[@annabrancati3861]

+Dan Africk the ATC isn't upside in this video, it's in guide mode. Which per the manufacture's recommendations is fully auto-blocking, meaning it's acceptable to go hands free. That being said I will often tie off with a mule knot or a backup safety knot as you've said, but that is more for piece of mind.

[@danstheman33]

Anna Brancati I know what guide mode is, I use it all the time. It still must be used in proper orientation, per the manufacturer's instructions. And it is not acceptable to go hands free while belaying with any belay device, assisted braking or not, without some sort of backup in place. That is also explicitly stated/illustrated in the manufacturer's instructions. I've read them. The term 'auto-blocking' does not appear anywhere in Petzl's instructions (instructions). I suggest you read them again.

[@danstheman33]

Dan Africk Same goes for Black Diamond ATC-Guide by the way.

[@JoshBeckner]

+Dan Africk At the risk fanning this fire, which is that last thing I want to do, I'm aiming to help educate the community, I'll say that letting go of the break hand is a personal preference and it's an acceptable industry standard. Yes, Dan, the Petzl instructions do clearly say that you shouldn't let go of the break hand. However, this is not how most practitioners are operating this device. I'd say 95% or more of the highly trained and highly professional guides I work with feel just fine letting go of the break hand, even in a self rescue scenario. The device has been used like this for a long time and we don't have any data to show that we need to change the standard. I think any Petzl rep will tell you that the manual is just to cover their own ass. Also, the 'upside down' Reverso thing...there's good arguments to show that having the blocking 'biner on the outside is a good thing...but that's a whole other topic, I'm personally fine with it.

[@eyescreamcake]

"brake hand" and "peace of mind" 🤦‍♂️

[@tonyjewell478]

Very well demonstrated and explained! I'm wondering if this 5:1 system has a specific name to distinguish it from other 5:1 systems? Perhaps a 3:1 with a 2:1 insert, but that seems a little wordy.

[@martinszpuk5665]

Today I tried it out on a horizontal surface. So perfect for learning. Between two trees. According to the Petzl manual, a 7:1 pulley system. The finding is that if you don't have pulleys, there is so much friction between the rope and the carabiners that perhaps only 3:1 is good. Has anyone really tried pulling a person and full weight through carabiners and reverso only?

[@miketaiwanwalkcity6355]

Great techniques, I'll try ! Thanks

[@chrisjokinen217]

Love the content, but please never film in portrait again.

[@countinglampposts]

What are you using for progress capture? The ATC in guide mode?

[@sietschoolforinternational5234]

Yes. It's super reliable but creates a ton of friction!

[@maximesimard4988]

could you redirect the break strand on the anchor to be able to pull down instead ?

[@sietschoolforinternational5234]

Yes, but it adds a lot of friction and sometimes makes it impossible to haul for lighter folks, like Marisol.

[@osmariojorgenunesdeoliveir5576]

Hey! Great video... nice technique! I'm gonna try this on my next climb. best regards!

[@MrPoprck]

I just wander how heavy is your co-climber on the load part of the rope, cause you are pulling with such a ease I can't imagine. I put up the same system and I asked my 60 kg friend to lift me up, and he was struggling quite hard, I have a 75kg. ?

[@JoshBeckner]

The load was only about 20kg.

[@MrPoprck]

Is there any better system than this one, it's the same they teach us in school for alpinists, but it's not very effective at heavy loads or big weight difference at climber partners? And is very difficult on the end where you have to literally drag a load on to the anchor. Except if you always carry a protraxion or minitraxion pulleys, but thats not a common practice. Which system they use when lifting equipment bags with portaledges in big wall?

[@danstheman33]

Uroš Žvokelj In reality friction at each pulley greatly reduces efficiency of the system- carabiners are only about 55 - 65% efficient, plus you have more friction at the ATC, rope stretch, etc.. So in practice a 3:1 simple pulley will be more like 2:1 or less, and a 5:1 will probably be closer to 3:1. Adding a re-direct so you can pull downward using your body weight can help make it easier, but also adds more friction to reduce the mechanical advantage even further. Using one or two pulleys or 'Revolver' carabiners instead of simple carabiners can help a lot, so it's a good idea to carry them if you think hauling is likely.

[@Kespecial1]

+Uroš Žvokelj this is a "complex" 5:1. Using the same amount of equipment, or less of you remove the sling, you could create a "simple" 5:1 and have fewer resets....pulleys pray least using HMS carabiners with a low-er friction coefficient would be ideal.

[@danielgockerell]

I don’t know if this helps but I always carry two prusik minded pulleys. It will greatly reduce the friction in the system caused by the biners and actually give you a legit mechanical advantage. I don’t know. It helps when i have to hump up gear or practice hauling in an unconscious partner. Try it out. I would strongly recommend practicing mechanical advantage, different belay escapes and releasing loaded auto locks on reversos and ATC guides. Always be prepared.

[@nick74climb]

this is a compound 6:1 6:1 Compound Pulley System

[@boudibla4011]

negative: 5:1 do the math

[@johnnybgood5666]

no he is right - in a compound pulley system - one where the 2 sets of pulleys are not collapsing at the same rate, you multiply the 2 x 3 = 6:1 ... if it were a simple pulley , and all the pulleys were collapsing at the same rate, then you add . get good at things before you post angry comments

[@drqazlop]

It's funny to see one SIET video referenced to contradict another SIET video

[@ianbrown_777]

​@@boudibla4011You are correct, just to be clear (if anyone else reads all this). It may seem to be a compound system at first glance but it is not. It is 5:1. That other video is not the same as this... that one is 6:1.

[@geometerfpv2804]

@@johnnybgood5666 It is a 5 to 1, follow the tension through all the redirects. You don't need any "rule", you can calculate it directly. Any strand that goes through a pulley is assumed to have the same tension on either side of the pulley, and the rope in her hand is said to have T=1. If you have T=1 on both sides of a pulley, the thing the pulley is attached two experiences T=2. You'll end up getting 5 total.

[@eyescreamcake]

Cool! But I won't remember this when I need it…

[@realrockkerry2239]

Go out and practice!

[@realrockkerry2239]

... Or off the banisters of the stairs like me during lockdown 😅

[@travisbieber7167]

Hold it horizontal

[@doyoudive]

酷，好方法！

[@beingaware8542]

Recording is the wrong way. Can't get full screen.

[@johnbarrett1763]

If you add a 2 to 1 to a 3 to 1 you times it not add it up.

[@pan_czerwony5437]

Actually the 3:1 is inside of the 2:1 so they add up

[@ryancorsaut5177]

Only if you compound it through prusiking the systems together. Not to mention a 3 to one times a 2 to one is a 6 to one. A six to one needs to have the terminating knot on the anchor side, which it is more then likely is on the climber/ the load side.

[@kimjacobs911]

Theoretically 5:1, practically 2:1. When you use pulleys, that does affect efficiency a lot. but even when used pulleys with high efficiency bearings, it would still not be a practical 5:1. And another thing, when you make prussic slings, make sure you use the right knot and then still load the slings correctly. Very bad example of teaching methods.

[@JoshBeckner]

+kimjacobs911 I think you're about right with the difference of the 5:1 actually being a 2 or 3:1 in practice- really depends on what you're running your rope through. I'm not sure what you mean by the 'right knot'. I know the knot that we used in the vid, the flat overhand, is stronger than the prusik- that's been tested. I know some folks think you should only use a grapevine but the flat overhand is an acceptable industry practice for many applications now. "make sure you use the right knot and then still load the slings correctly"...well, is self rescue, as opposed to professional rescue teams (with much bigger loads!), it doesn't matter if the 'biner clips the knot.

[@adivladi]

wow its alot friction on the system when you useing carabiners... far away from 5:1

[@geometerfpv2804]

Yeah, using the Reverso is really messing with the efficiency, you can see it isn't even letting slack through let alone the full amount of tension. This would be great for hauling a second past a few moves, though: you don't want to have to somehow get them on your microtraxion.