5.7x28 | Cutting Edge Bullets' 30gr Raptor vs 32gr MTH

[@PlowenYourMommy]

I also wondered what happened to Roy Nelson after he left the UFC.

[@D45726Lkthsc]

Those are nasty! I might consider this caliber if I had those in it

[@ShastaBean]

Aside from recoil for speed & accuracy of follow-ups (which is def something), most commercial widely available loads offer no advantage over 9mm. But if you can handload, or the stuff from companies like he mentioned R&R or Vanguard...smokes 9mm in destructive damage (if we pretend Liberty doesn't exist). The F(udd)BI standard of 14-16" penetration is absurdity. This fast & fracturing technology is where it's at...in my (unpopular) opinion.

[@aos7194]

I wish someone would develop a mag fed 5.7 bolt action. I know dark mountain has 1 but its god awful ugly and is single shot. Any scuttle butt going around ?

[@ShastaBean]

Yes - ugly! Looks like something Mark Serbu dreamt up. As Jay from Elite has explained it to me, (approx) the 5.7 case needs to move during the pressure-spike and is why there isn't & won't be a fixed-breach and Savage tried...so, seeing that thing from Dark Mountain has me wondering if Jay knows what he's talking about (this happens) or if they created a safe gun over there at DM?

[@aos7194]

@ShastaBean I am by no means a firearms wizard, but wouldn't it be possible to build a lever action for the 5.7?

[@ShastaBean]

@@aos7194 I suppose that would still be considered a fixed-breach and not have the needed moving parts that the cartridge was designed for. The lacquer coating is on the case as part of this whole sequence and what's needed to happen & when. Same goes for the delayed blowback design (or S&W's tempo system) creating the specific timing needed. Locking it behind a bolt that won't move - fouls up that whole sequence. It's far more complex than I can describe so I'm just repeating what I think I understand. But the intent of its purpose was to function in a full-auto PDW and later made to work in a pistol. So it offers a lot, but if you want a bolt action centerfire in a .22 cal that isn't as powerful as .223 REM, you may be looking for .22 Hornet. Unless I heard Dark Mountain thoroughly explain how they arrived at this design that accounts for all of the cartridge's properties - to convince me it's safe? I'd not be holding it up anywhere near my face. And by looking at it? It doesn't seem they have.

[@aos7194]

@ShastaBean sir, you have a far greater understanding of the internal mechanics. Thanks for keeping it simple for someone like me to track what you're explaining. I'm of the experience that 1 is none, 2 is 1, and 3 is better. I have a pistol, bolt action, and AR platform for every caliber i have except for the 17hmr (no pistol) and the 5.7 ( no bolt action). Thanks for your knowledge.

[@joed3264]

I wish you guys would use the right kind of test block.

[@DantheGunMan1026]

I'm not sure I understand. Clear Ballistics' gel blocks are a direct replacement for traditional ordnance 240A ballistic gel, they're crystal clear, and can be reused multiple times without need for BB calibration. Even if they didn't meet certain requirements for standard ballistic testing, almost everyone is using these now, so at the very least, a new standard is being formed. I personally couldn't care less how the FBI does its testing; as long as you're using the same medium each time, you get comparable results.

[@joed3264]

@@DantheGunMan1026 sorry. I am a stickler for details. I have a Masters in Industrial Engineering. I do understand how difficult it is to make the proper blocks.

[@ShastaBean]

@@DantheGunMan1026 You'll perhaps care if you dismiss a viable defense or hunting option because it doesn't open or expand in these rubber blocks which are provably stingy with expansion. I've tested nearly every bullet in 5.7 and can give multiple examples where this is the case. The 40 gr Raptor with the tip inserted being one of them. So yeah, you'll get comparable results using these...if you are ok with false results. Clear gel is valuable in some ways you mentioned, but fails miserably in some ways. That being the biggest, by far imo. The two bullets you did today are perfectly fine in clear gel. Although actual meat is a whole new ballgame when it comes to seeing real damage in the way of a hole being made. The 30 gr Raptor is the chamber of my carry, followed by the 32 grain Controlled Chaos. Once a person knows just how to interpret the results, the 10% organic gel is virtually identical to meat. Clear gel has a fraction of the size of the damage that results from the temp-stretch cavity. In other words, it's wrong. Then, as for those "almost everyone" you mentioned - yes, they are creating a new standard...by harming bullet technology development, y'all. Bullets that expand just fine in actual tissue will get pulled from the market in some instances because they are failing to open in synthetic blocks. Just ask CCI.

[@DantheGunMan1026]

Have you ever been water tubing or skiing and hit the water at like 40mph? It's like hitting a brick wall, so I find it hard to believe that a projectile traveling in excess of 2,000fps hitting a gel block, any gel block, is an inadequate test of its ability to perform in an ideal situation. Brother, I'm here to have fun, do my thing, and share my results with others. I'm sorry if my tests don't meet your criteria. It doesn't matter how awesome you think your blocks are, real world results will always vary. Have you personally compared the results of your gel blocks to that of human flesh? Likely not, so you're simply arguing semantics. I get all the information I need with the clear blocks. I've tested many a projectile as well, and nine times out of ten, the ones which fail are some kind of expensive, Gucci brand, so if it hurts a manufacturer's feelings that their crappy projectile doesn't work as advertised, that's on them. I mean, that's literally the reason we test instead of accepting the word of manufacturers whose entire purpose in life is to make sales, even if they sometimes have to lie to make that happen. If they don't perform in clear ballistics gel, they likely aren't going to perform in anything other than maybe a water jug. Do you really want to trust a projectile which is so picky about where it will and won't work anyway?

[@joed3264]

@@DantheGunMan1026 I use Federal HST in all of my carry guns - 9, .40 and .45 ACP. BTW I don't go near the water as I can't swim. Gosh! How the heck did I make it through Ranger School?

[@Swampytheroot]

Rather not be hit by either