5 Accidents Wrap Up 2023: Baron, Debonair, Aztec, Lancair IVP, M20C

[@theresacaron4238]

I once ferried a 172 on a 4-hour night flight (5 hours of fuel), the destination runway was not lit, had very narrow pavement 2300' long with powerlines & trees at the western end. The owner had indicated he would use torches to light the runway and his vehicle pointed down the runway at the obstacle threshold in order for me to land. When I arrived over the field there were no lit fuel pots, and his vehicle was not identifiable from pattern altitude. I diverted to the nearest commercial airport (10 min. away) where I was met by the owner asking why I diverted as he was lighting the runway with his headlights. My airmanship guided my decision making, my butt is worth a lot more than a machine. I set personal minimums when I had about 200 hrs. and stayed alive by never exceeding them. As a private pilot I'd say, if you got time to spare go by air. I'm sure I've pissed off a few friend passengers over time with delays, diversions and cancellations, but hey, I'm still here while 16 of my flying friends/acquaintances are not.

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

Good on ya Theresa! Great story!

[@jonasbaine3538]

16 😔

[@philiporourke7896]

Great comment, thanx.

[@neatstuff1988]

Scott I would like your take on why dan grider's tennessee fly girl was removed. It came out first as usual and called it a stall spin , but i'm not sure it was. A rare miss for dan😅 if it was

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

@@neatstuff1988 Dan is always in a hurry to get his videos out, he's wrong more than you think. On the roughest of knowledge he forms an opinion. He doesn't pull any punches either, and at times that makes it intensely personal

[@garyplewa9277]

Scott, I've seen your posts on BeechTalk so I suspect you also read the posts made by others. Your assessment of TNFlygirl was very mild compared to what others have said, There was one video by "Pilotcritic" posted in CrashTalk where Jenny is flying from Rockwood TN to Knoxville Downtown. The course is basically due east. She departed on Rwy 04 and then began immediately poking at her iPad. She never looked at the compass or DG. She also never touched the prop control, leaving it at full TO RPM the entire time. Instead of proceeding on course, she meandered in an S turn followed by 3 circles trying to figure out which way she should be going, relying soley on the little airplane and magenta line on the iPad. One time she turned on the autopilot "to see where this takes us". I don't believe she had the NAV source set properly to Knoxville because the plane veared off in the wrong direction. Her situational awareness was all but non-existent. She didn't know how to use the basic flight instruments nor how to fly a complex aircraft. This was NOT an autopilot issue with her it was a basic airmanship issue and quite frankly, at her demonstrated skill level in that airplane, she had no business behind the controls, especially with a passenger. Her father was equally clueless as to what his daughter knew and didn't know, and he died as a result of placing faith in his daughter. Who ever trained her and signed her off did her a disservice, one that she and her father ultimately paid for with their lives.

[@jimdavis1939]

Well said, You are correct, Scott was charitable in his characterization of Ms Blalock, that's his style, but the end result of her utter incompetence has sadly been displayed for all to see. The 1st 10-15 minutes of that flight was mind-boggling, the S-turn and the 360's said it all, utterly clueless, incompetent, and dangerous. And one more piece of trivia, in addition to leaving the prop at TO RPM, the mixture was still at full rich.

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

She had no boundaries.

[@GeorgeSemel]

The real question is how she passed a Private Pilot oral exam and checkride in the first place. She had some really sloppy instructions that were clear to me just watching one of her videos.

[@Mike-01234]

How did she pass a Checkride is my question.

[@jameshennighan8193]

GARY, Spot on.....! This is what happens with the generation (s) we now have who just cannot live, move, eat or sleep without reference to their smartphone or I-pad...........even down to paying for a bar of chocolate using their Cellphone and the appropriate App....... Chicks especially........but not exclusively so.........cannot do anything without their 'Personal Device Speaking Instrument' in their hand all the time...... The madness of simpletons....! James Hennighan Yorkshire, England

[@brian9man499]

One of my early flight instructors told me "there's always time to panic". Helped me to keep a cool head and fly within my capabilities.

[@Mrflightlogic]

Regarding the Baron in Alaska, I did a talk to the FAA during the development of glass EFIS. I brought a piece of wax paper along for the talk. I did a demo about "scud running" by periodically raising the wax paper between me and the audience. I think I made my point. After a thousand hours of bush flying, the reality of risk was very, very apparent. The accident rate in Alaska is still alarming. Unforgiving scenarios are the norm...

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

Interesting idea!

[@davidmangold1838]

I began in general aviation, until airline job. 2,500 hours. After that, I flew big airliner jets for 40 years, 25,500 hours. Never any big issues. Now, flying my old bonanza, I’m the most cautious ever. Always have an escape route for weather, mor than enough fuel reserve, and always ready to deal with the crap hitting the fan! Be prepared for everything!

[@easttexan2933]

just have a hard time believing that a commercial airline pilot with 25K hrs of flight time would refer to flying commercial airliners as "flying big airliner jets".....You sound like you're 18.

[@Quisqueyax]

@@easttexan2933 he means A380 40 years ago. 🤫

[@wayneroyal3137]

Scott, I was chief pilot for an aerial survey company. I had a crew leave Jacksonville Fl and head to Lee Summit in a turbo 210. They ran out of gas 6 miles from the airport. I will never, never understand some of the decision making of some pilots. They survived but destroyed the aircraft. Great video as usual

[@boommasterkc-135____8]

Good hands are never a substitute for good judgment. I used to watch mishap videos thinking, “how can they be so stupid?” to now realizing, “how can I prevent myself from going down that path?”

[@williamtrusler1508]

Great video, Scott. With reference to the scenario you outlined, I had that situation happen to me many years ago. I arrived at the unlit destination airport after dark and thought I could see good enough. Those neck hairs stood right up though,so I diverted to an airport with lights several miles away. The passengers weren’t very happy, but I never regretted the chice I made.

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

Thanks for sharing! William, excellent story and a better result!

[@karrpilot7092]

When available, i fly a 182 VFR. I only used the auto pilot once. I engaged it in smooth clear air over Iowa. I found it to be sloppy, inaccurate, and loose. I could hold a course and heading better. Then i shut it off. Haven't used it in over 10 years.

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

Let me guess... an Stec?

[@podtri419]

The night scenario described a the end of the video dictates I go to another airport with lights and fly to this destination the next morning when the sun is up. I would not even attempt it. There is nowhere I ever need to be that bad. Great video.

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

I like that idea!

[@flying8dm622]

Scott, great job reminding all of us to focus on flying the airplane within our own capabilities and the airplanes. The bottom of all my checklists have a simple reminder, “Stop & Think”. A reminder to myself to not blindly charge forward. Thanks again, Mike Bonanza N228DM

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

Well said!

[@RonGlasgow-s7l]

Scotty, you are doing a very good job at presentation.

[@johncox4273]

Hi Scott, I have been watching your KZbin channel for a while now, and want to thank you for your excellent accident analysis and your promotion of aviation safety. I always enjoy your thoughts and presentation. I’m a retired corporate pilot with 43 years in the industry, and feel very fortunate to have had a long career doing something that I loved. Please keep up your excellent and very valuable work.

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

Thanks John, I appreciate that!

[@kenkarger6594]

Love this video. I think the assessments are spot on. My wife and I are retired and relatively new pilots. We have set very strict boundaries. We have around 400 hours or more in our two years of flying of which 200 of those hours are with CFIs and CFIIs. We did our IFR rating and now working on our commercial. We do not want to be a smoking hole. We don't run short on fuel, fly into even remotely bad weather, always use an IFR flight plan or flight following and know our avionics well. We also practice hand flying continuously. We avoid the five deadly attitudes like the plague. In other words, we take your advice like it was the Bible. Keep up the great work. Btw, we fly out of Possum Kingdom and Graham.

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

Thanks Ken, glad you guys are enjoying flying! It's never too late. I've got lots of friends around your area, pretty country!

[@garyprince7309]

Great summry Scott. I enjoy your analysis of what pilots do right and wrong. Personally, I don't land if I can't see. I don't box myself in by planning too close on fuel. So close that I can't make a well lit divert. I dont let fuel quantities become my bases for decisions. This is so easy to plan your way out of.

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

Well said!

[@Mrflightlogic]

I lost two colleagues landing a IV-P on a short private runway. They are fast and unforgiving of mistakes. When asked to be a flight instructor for Lancair types, I looked closely at the demonstrated performance. Could not even get a straight answer about spin behavior. I declined the endorsement and never looked back. I miss the two guys that did not survive. The one pilot who did survive scared me on two flights, with questionable judgement. Flying experimental on the "bleeding edge" requires even more caution, I believe, than most other GA flight ops. I recently passed the 50 year point eligible for Wright Bros. cert. The old and not bold adage has been born out over time, at least for me. Cheers Juan and keep reporting...

[@davestarr7112]

One of your best Scott, without a doubt. Thanks for all you do to help educate us. (And by the way, in today's world of credit cards and self-serve fue; pumps, if you feel embarrassed at having to land short and tale on some "just in case" fuel, no one but your credit card carrier need ever know. :=) )

[@Starship007]

TN girl relied too much on the autopilot. Agree, when in doubt turn it off. As a young pilot practice keeping altitude and heading

[@RaysDad]

I'd say an 87 year-old pilot who attempts a 5 hour non-stop flight doesn't have appropriate boundaries. To be safe divide that 5 hour flight into 2-3 hour legs with a nice break for lunch (and maybe a nap).

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

That works for me, and I'm not 87.

[@karrpilot7092]

I use the bladder method of flying. 2-3 hours tops. Then I'm getting gas, food, and a bathroom. It's never failed me.)

[@RaysDad]

@@karrpilot7092 Ha! It's true, an enlarged prostate can be a safety feature for aging pilots. Also, owning an old Luscombe with a 14 gallon fuel capacity as a first plane teaches you keep the trip legs short.

[@angusmclennan8747]

i used to own m20c and I would never fly more than 4 hours on full tanks, 4 hrs is enough any time??

[@JL-hg4wk]

Always nice to see more content from you Scott. Happy New Year!

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

Thanks! I hope to do better this year. 23 was a time suck!

[@libertine5606]

This sounds like a question that I did multiple times into Mammoth, California. I had flown into Mammoth a couple of times in the day time. We were renting a condo for the Winter season. I would leave Banning after dark, then fly all the way to Fresno, then to Mammoth following the airway at MEA. Which was 14,000 feet. I would then turn the lights on at the airport and circle all the way down , never leaving the confines of the airport pattern until I got to pattern altitude., then do a standard pattern. It would have been faster, maybe 20 minutes, if I went up Owens Valley. But going up a valley, at night, with very few lights and cities, 14,000 foot peaks on both sides, and one lonely highway which may not have any cars on it to be able to track your path seemed like suicide to me. What's 20 minutes on a 2 hour and 30 minute flight with 5 hours of fuel? Nothing. This is what I do at these types of airports check the AFD to make sure that the pattern is standard. Don't leave the pattern until you are at MEA on the IFR chart. Whether landing or taking off just don't leave the pattern. And fly your pattern by the numbers. At the time we were renting the condo at Mammoth all I had was a yoke mounted, hand held GPS. After many day trips I tracked out and saved waypoints through Owens Valley. I did also find out that there wasn't anytime that highway 395 doesn't have traffic so I did start using that route at night. But at first I would much rather fly it by the numbers using the MEAs on the IFR chart. Even if it added time to the trip.

[@kellygleason861]

During my PPL training I was fortunate enough to survive almost this exact scenario. I wince writing this, as I can’t fathom this level of bad decision making anymore. However…my 20-year-old flight instructor had ok'd us to do my night cross country to a small, untowered field in the foothills that neither of us had been to. Dark night, tree country. We couldn’t get the pilot-controlled lighting to work, and after 20 minutes of circling and talking to ATC, we eventually gave up and diverted to a much larger class-D airport. When I finally flew in there, during daylight, I saw what would have been impossible to see at night: massive pines on both ends of the runway. I’m so thankful the pilot-controlled lighting wasn’t working that night.

[@RonBumstead]

Well done, you are one of three of my goto Aviation Channels. Blancolirio and Dan Grydor. Although Dan Grydor goes out on a limb and people don't like being criticism. But he goes after everyone, so he achieving his objectives. Getting GA Pilots to practice Scenarios to get yourself out of a Failure you weren't expecting.

[@Dilley_G45]

Yep Dan is abrasive to some but he is fighting for GA and he isn't hateful or anything. He has a few more talents as well. I particularly loved the crash of that ex Tarzan / weightless diva couple and friends. He did some awesome research on them and their cult. Like he was helped by Dr Grande and "Fighting for the Faith" (discernment channel, talks about false money grabbing TV prophets/pastors). The amount of knowledge about their fake pseudoChristian cult, and how the psychology might have played into it, and how he did all that with thorough research and came up with a result faster than ntsb, I was impressed

[@kdawson020279]

Dan is a lightning rod, but would you rather be offended or dead? I tend to think of him as the gruesome driver's education safety films of people who got mangled and killed of the aviation world. His content can come across a bit harsh, but far less harsh than a plane crash that he hopes to prevent.

[@chucksnightmare7674]

@@kdawson020279 I'm the type of person that would want Mr DAN to be my Instructor.

[@jimmydulin928]

I like the concept of take it down a notch, Scott. Lacking organization finding myself not as good a multitask manager at high airspeed as some, I elected to stay in simple prop airplanes crop dusting and patrolling pipelines. That gave me ample time to deal with many emergencies over many years. Also I had neither the speed nor the bladder for long distance sorties.

[@richardgreen6857]

…the only fuel bladder in my airplane is in me!

[@emergencylowmaneuvering7350]

As a Crop Duster you dont have to do long boring cross country trips, but you do multitask a lot.. No copilot or observer help onboard, you have to climb, descend, turn and change location precisely hundreds of times a day. Precise Low Maneuvering is for me more demanding than any airline flying far from the ground, with a ATC and a Copilot helping you every second.

[@stanschoeppey9396]

Nice job Scott as usual. Your experience is valuable to all who tune in.

[@JamesWilliams-en3os]

Good discussion again, Scott. I watch videos like this as a means to check my personal minimums as a pilot, and I’m sure other pilots do too. Keep ‘em coming. As for your hypothetical, my answer to “how do you land at this unlit airport in the dark” is simple: I WON’T. I will divert to an alternate airport with runway lights and/or approach plates. I had an unscheduled off-airport landing 3 years ago due to a catastrophic engine failure. The fact that I am typing this now could not have happened if I had been unable to see the ground and pick an appropriate field on which to do a dead-stick landing. In the dark, I wouldn’t have been able to see the gullies, ditches, trees, and other deadly obstructions located very near the pasture I put my airplane down in. Because of this experience, I no longer fly at night, nor over low IFR conditions. I NEED to see the ground to be able to line up a safe approach to land. And that is now my hard boundary.

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

I’m with you James!

[@Four_Words_And_Much_More]

I love your description of flying outside the reasonable boundaries for the specific pilot. A great description! Thus create boundaries for each pilot. It is the processing capacity for each pilot. Hard to develop a clear understanding, but essential.

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

Well said!

[@mutthaam2396]

Outstanding!!!!!! Thank you.

[@LargoFlyBoy]

Wow! 5 degrees is the stop on my V35A and at those speeds must be a tremendous control pressure. In a video fly girl posted it showed her disconnecting the AP in an out of trim state and abruptly nose over…. Such a shame but a reminder that simple things misunderstood are just as deadly has complicated ones.

[@ShortFinal]

That was my thought as well. I rarely see more than 1 degree nose down in my F33A, so 5 nose down is an insane amount of force against the servos.

[@billdurham8477]

#3 sounds like the Pan Am pilot who landed his S38 Sikorsky on the runway with gear up. It wound up on it's back. Onlookers then noticed the landing gear extending ( it was hand cranked ). Pilot claimed it was down the whole time.🤔

[@mygremlin1]

I flew out of an small airport that had only a NDB approach. Thankfully I had a nearby airport just 20 miles away with an ILS so I had an "out" when WX was a concern.

[@Pokertyme2009]

My brother was an instructor pilot in the T38. He would say that the first thing to do in an emergency is 'wind the clock.' Of course the cockpit didn't have a clock, but this saying means he would do nothing for the first couple of seconds because one wrong move makes the situation two times worse. I am not a pilot but I am still amazed at his planning, thinking and skill level. He's alive and kickin'.

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

Your brother and I went through the same program.

[@Pokertyme2009]

@@FlyWirescottperdue He was stationed in Del Rio, TX most of the 70's.

[@user-iw3mr2lv6f]

Thanks Scott Happy 2024❤ Thanks for what you do 😀🇺🇸

[@mazerat4q2]

My answer to engine failure was get a glider rating. Never had engine failure but knew exactly what I would do. My answer to vmc into imc was learn and practice flight on instruments regularly. It saved me a bunch of times. If you try a short runway at night with no lights your crazy. If you scud run you better stay exactly over the middle of a highway or railroad if you can't then climb out to msa and turn around. When you lack experience fly with someone in the right seat that has a zillion hours of experience. Many many crashes I've looked at, every one of them caused by a mistake. Some mistakes are forced on you by situations. But you must deal with them. The only rule about flying is don't hit anything

[@UncleKennysPlace]

Just don't get too used to that double-digit L/D ratio!

[@alscustomerservice187]

Good presentation! Thanks

[@toddivey1032]

Great video Scott. Very informative. Very professional.

[@cherylgoodwin4798]

Thanks for another great video!

[@toadflax636]

Pilot's egos and daring to rub up to limits is amazing.

[@topgunaircraftsales4408]

Scott, I was in the Marine F4/F18 community and a StanO/ASO. The situation in the Aero Country Lanceair accident was complicated by the fact that McKinney National Airport approximately 7 miles East of Aero Country was closed for construction. I flew that day from T31 and was not aware of the KTKI closure until that morning during my preflight prep. Additionally the mishap Pilot reportedly had planned the flight with the purpose of visiting local relatives after a recent Birth. Add that to the loss of Pressurization, Prop Overspeed, the control knob failure and as you pointed out from past Accident experience a definite chain of events that ended in this Accident. I question why the Pilot didn't slow down assess his situation, orbit overhead and screw the knob back on the power lever and consider flying to Addison KADS, or Mesquite KHQZ both with Towers and long wide runways. Another issue with the Dallas Airpark accident not only is the Runway short, it's narrow, only 30 feet wide and IMHO if your not familiar tends to result in Pilots landing at higher speeds. It's surface tends to be rough and not a good runway for anyone who has not recently used it, especially at night. After a 5 hour flight I would be concerned the excessive bank angle with low fuel may have uncovered the fuel line, causing the engine to stumble and the fatigued Pilot to become distracted leading to a Stall.

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

Thanks for watching and your comments. I've heard that, but don't know the situation with TKI firsthand. Dallas Airpark is a substandard runway anyway you slice it. I tend not to get too far in the weeds as to chain of events, if there are no facts to support them. The Lancair pilot sure didn't want to slow things down.

[@RickA440]

Excellent presentation. As to your scenario at the end, it seems to me that a prudent pilot would have taken steps earlier in the flight, or preferably in the planning to avoid the situation altogether. Thus to become the old pilot rather than the bold pilot fondly remembered by friends and family.

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

Thanks Rick, I think you got the point of the scenario!

[@Cedartreetechnologies]

i allowed myself to get into Scott's hypothetical IRL, as a student pilot. Night clear, calm, moonless. Rural unlit airport. Fortunately, my instructor whose name should have been Yoda, took command for the last 50'. Perfect landing. Aand I plan to never fly at night again. It was deeply concerning in the moment. It was twrrifying in retrospect. 'Way too many ways to die.

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

Thanks for sharing!

[@redb.3885]

I'm a low time pilot but I can't understand why TNflygirl didn't turn off the autopilot and just fly the plane. Aviate, navigate, communicate.

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

I can't either!

[@davidmangold1838]

As a weak, relatively low time pilot, in a high performance complex airplane, she needed the autopilot to help/save her bad flying ability. But, she never fully understood how it was to be used and how it operated. All the way to the end-look at her course, right on track the whole flight. It was the altitude hold/vertical mode she didn’t understand. She and I were friends. I offered to go on this trip. Instead, she took her non-pilot dad😞. In hindsight, she was not competent in fully understanding the physics of flight, nor in flying this complex high performance airplane. RIP Jenny and her dad Jim.

[@rodneywallace2984]

​@@davidmangold1838Sad to say but boy did you dodge a bullet that day... Not your time...

[@igclapp]

​@@rodneywallace2984I think what he's saying is that if he was on that flight, he could have prevented the accident.

[@aerotube7291]

Very sad and I share your moment in wishing eternal peace.

[@mattj65816]

The Golden Rule of Autopilots @ 5:12. The first thing my instructor taught me during my first flight with an autopilot.

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

Know all the ways to turn it off!

[@jimstanley_49]

The thing is, you have to be able to take control when the autopilot lets go. If you've trimmed the airplane into a configuration that takes the mechanical strength of AP servos to fly, turning it off may be the last thing you do. I suspect it was the last thing she did before the emergency call.

[@Byzmax]

Great video as always and Happy New Year. As for the scenario you outlined. Know enough about your flight and the destination to have left earlier so as to arrive in suitable conditions. If for some reason you made a mistake in your planning or judgement that meant you did arrive at said place anyhow, you should divert to somewhere that improves your chances of success. That somewhere being well lit would be a good start. In reality though don't get to this point. The decision to use an alternate strip should have been made before leaving.

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

Great point!!

[@rafdecc]

Excellent review of all those accidents with without being partial I am a low time pilot and maybe 500 hours and I'm now 78 years old I had an incident coming back from a little airport and actually on an island off the coast of Maryland and with my ex-wife arriving at our destination millville airport I believe it's miv the lights were not on and that's a former military uncontrolled field my Eta told me I should be there but as you stated road lights other distractions night flying did not require ifr rating. Thankfully I had ifr training did a vector with two vor radios called field to turn lights on landed safely. Ifr rating is essential for night flying as spin training. I bought a home built Pitts a beauty gaining aerobatic training for unusual conditions. MOMMA TOOK MY T BIRD AWAY I E DIVORCE 😢

[@nightwaves3203]

Climb Cuss Click again. First thing I'd think would be check what flight service gave for dewpoint temp spread and recheck freq for turning the lights on and maybe cuss I might of missed seeing a lights NOTAM. Whatever the case, climb to safe terrain alt and for sure do the usual and have had full tanks to have time. Oh yah cuss some more.

[@ferebeefamily]

Thank you for the video.

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

Thanks for watching!

[@noel56z]

Thanks for the thought provoking video. To answer your ending question re flying at night into a dark hole airport I would say I don't do that anymore. Back in the day flying cancelled checks for the Federal Reserve banks in a Beech 18 our practice (as instructed by the Chief Pilot) was to always overfly the destination airport at no lower than the MEA or minimum safe altitude for the sector before descending into a normal traffic pattern. The other more risky practice was to pick out a light on the ground and fly toward it and if it didn't go out there was nothing between you and the light. Admittedly a very resky practice but slowing down to manuvering speed gave a bit more time get it done. Thanks again. Just turrned 82 so I guess I was just lucky!!

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

Sometimes, its better to be lucky than good!!

[@belliott538]

Not many old bold pilots out there…

[@terrancestodolka4829]

Great breakdown...In these crashes.

[@raiderdefendant2225]

Wow, that is crazy. I want it to be a pilot and when I took an introduction flight I was able to talk to a lot of people at the flight school and I noticed that they were rushing everyone to get ours and I realized safety isn’t first anymore. You got pilots with a lot of hours and little experience.

[@johnb7490]

Great job Scott

[@davekennedy6323]

I have said this before; you are skilled at teaching.

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

Thanks!

[@aviatortrucker6285]

The. Century 2000 autopilot manual does not mention or explain the “EXT” annunciator function on the panel. Been asking around if anyone knows.

[@JK-zl7vv]

I think the flygirl flight, she was fighting the trim, because she was not familiar with how to properly set the trim, in her last videos she would not know what direction to set the trim, so if it was set the wrong direction, she would be fighting the controls, the whole flight, which is what I believe caused her crash.

[@jameshennighan8193]

OUTSTANDING Outstanding analysis from Scott once again..... Unfamiliarity with the airplane......or parts of it seems high on the agenda here...... "......Your subconcscious tells you you're about to become a smoking hole in the ground........" Priceless observation.. James Hennighan Yorkshire, England

[@richardgreen6857]

Hey Scott, I’m not sure if I understand your scenario exactly - I’m in Canada and first, if it’s nighttime (past civil twilight) and I intend to land at a VFR only (or an IFR) airport it had better have lighting or you’re not only practicing unsafe flight you’re defying regulations (CARs here). Specifically CAR 602.40 (1) …no person shall conduct a landing or a takeoff in a heavier than air aircraft at night unless the aerodrome is lighted in accordance with… So, my answer would be as soon as I clicked the lights on, and I could see them at altitude. Admittedly, in a larger city it can be difficult to pick an airport out of all the other lights, but most I’ve ever flown into stood out reasonably well because of the darkness around that lighting (airport grounds). Is it that different in the US? We also have standards for a night rating, which is an endorsement.

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

In the US you get the privilege of being able to fly at night VFR with the private certificate. In the scenario I gave there is nothing to stop you from flying that approach except for good judgment. This actually happened and the runway was lighted but with LED solar powered lights.

[@richardgreen6857]

@@FlyWirescottperdue oh my…sometimes I guess the regs work IN your favour 😳

[@joeljasper3622]

Official sunset on November 22, 2023 at Dallas Air Park (F86) was 1722. Accident time was approximately 1748. 24 minutes after sunset. Official dark 30 would be 1810 when the sun is 12 degrees below the horizon. Our worst vision is Mesopic when the cones cells have lost the necessary light to see detail and there probably hasn’t been enough time for the rod cells to recover from being bleached out. The city lights probably have them bleached out anyway. The runway is “poor” black asphalt with no markings or lights and is 3080’ x 30’ set against a low contrast sod area, in the middle of an urban area. That runway is in a black hole. I’m just shy of 1,000 hours of NVG time and there is no way I’m attempting to land there at that time aided or unaided in an airplane.

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

Excellent points, Joel.

[@bobcfi1306]

Thanks

[@robertscranton8293]

I enjoy your demeanor.

[@poowg2657]

Re. the Lancair accident all I could think of was C.W McCalls' song Wolf Creek Pass: "You wanna screw that thing back on Earl?".

[@josephmistretta6211]

I think you said a 3000 ft runway. Land on the numbers. You had mentioned maybe divert, but if I'm sitting there with the throttle knob in my hand, I want to get that plane down.

[@Gronicle1]

When I was a new navigator in the dark ages I once shot an airborne radar approach that turned out to be on Highway 50 (?) outside of Sacramento. It was not as bad as your hypothetical, but I learned a lot really quick. Of course you would never willingly get yourself into the hypothetical you paint. If you review the J. F. K., Jr. crash when he was trying to go into Martha's. Vinyard just after dark, I think your boundary setting observation applies to his accident also.

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

I agree with you about the JFK crash.

[@Ddurocher82]

I came into a VFR airport about 30 mins after dusk. Still seemed pretty bright. Over Flew the field, and seemed like we would have trouble landing. Positioned for a final flight. I believe it's about 2700' runway. W90. Got about 200 AGL and was shocked how dark it seemed. I immediately diverted to a towered airport about 10 miles away. I couldn't believe how dark it was, I think if we had continued down in hopes of finding the runway we would have hit trees or hangers or something.

[@Ddurocher82]

My plan was that if I didn't see the runway at 200 AGL I would divert. But I figured I would try it and see how difficult it was to land in Low light conditions. Found out it's very difficult!

[@Starship007]

Agree, touch and goes with pressurize problems and prop rpm problem. What else can go wrong. Get off the runway not touch and goes

[@jwb2814]

How many ways are there to turn it off and where can I find them. Exactly ‼️ Made me want to jump and shout on that one.

[@dcxplant]

thanks for a reasoned synopsis without hyperbole.

[@dandunlap8638]

I’ve watched several of TNFly videos. I got the impression, she approached flying like a Sunday drive in a car. She seemed to lack focus and didn’t appreciate the complexity of flying. She was over her head in that complex aircraft.

[@jimstanley_49]

I'm not sure it was even that the complex aircraft was over her head. I think she was too focused on getting her instrument rating and neglected to become proficient in a new aircraft. She probably would have had the same problems holding a course and altitude while futzing with a 430 in an IFR-configured 172.

[@dandunlap8638]

@@jimstanley_49 Agreed.

[@iamthevanavator281]

Regarding your hypothetical go to a better well lit airport. Had a variation on this scenario on a night training flight with a student pilot lost all electrical power. Had plenty of fuel on board (key). Went back to non towered home airport couldn’t activate runway lights pitch black. Made a low pass didn’t like what I didn’t see. Could have been animals, vehicles etc on the runway. Told my student okay we are going to KSMF. On the way there before we entered the Charlie, we saw the runway lights turn on at McClellan, some lady was flying in to pick up some friends. We headed over landed uneventfully. Turned out to be a worn out alternator circuit breaker.

[@Darkvirgo88xx]

I managed to watch TNflygirl's videos prior to them being taken down. She was getting a new autopilot it did have a problem that was fixed but she still continued to have trouble learning how to operate it. So she made a video prior to the accident asking subscribers what new autopilot to get. Then the day of the accident that was part of the avionics upgrades she was receiving. Also she had just fired her CFI trainer that was helping her in some of the videos. He was doing everything for her because she would ignore his advice or freeze up and he had to set things up. One time it was during the landing phase right new the airport they both were having trouble with the avionics and were flying all over the place it was bad. She would press and hold the buttons of the autopilot instead of pressing them once, also she wouldnt do what it said either like when it told her to trim she would just disconnect it then later reconnect it and try again. Anyway thanks for your knowledge and I always learn something new watching your videos even though im not a pilot. Just a small town cop lol. Oh and also the second accident that was in Plano. He attempted to land at a small non lit private airport instead of continuing to Addison. He told them he would attempt it but it may be too dark it was definitely too dark because pilots familiar with it said they wouldn't have done it. He crashed actually attempting a go around from what I recall. It was also captured on a dashcam. You see him come in level and after they park he comes back into from going back into a descending turn right into the shopping center. Im familiar with the area due to me deliviring doordash on the side so I found out as much as I could about it. I was actually near Plano that day.

[@Oldpuck81]

his speed wasn't consistent w/ traffic pattern (fast, slow, fast, slow) and he made the left turn going pretty slow and then nosed down. He might've had a medical caused by the stress of not being able to see the field which caused him to lose control. An accomplished pilot such as he would've/should've not gone into a turn/stall/spin (you would think) RIP sir.

[@edsal26]

The mental workload on a pilot is huge during preflight check. Every detail must be taken into consideration. Fuel, Weather, Weight and balance. Too much to list here but when a passenger starts demanding to get underway or other pressure on time gets in the equation, remember that every flight is a gamble. Some take chances and don’t get home that night.

[@noyfub]

Good Video.

[@rhkennerly]

Your question: f I can’t light it up with parachute flairs, i'd go elsewhere. Also don't underestimate the hazard of deer & turkey on the runway, particularly in the fall when the air is cool, but the asphalt warm.

[@sb859]

For the hypothetical case you presented...if I am familiar with the airport, I have some known cues to look for and give me a sense of comfort that I can safely land. If I don't recognize those cues, maybe after two attempts to land, then I divert. If I am unfamiliar with the airport, at night, low moon light, and I can't find it right away...then I divert.

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

Two attempts?

[@sb859]

@@FlyWirescottperdue 2 attempts to find the airport and get stabilized approach.

[@WolfPilot]

Hey Scott, I have to differ with you on your analysis of the F69 crash. I think his age (88 yo)(3 days short) played into this. Did you listen to the ATC recording? He was lost, confused and befuddled. . ATC gooed up and didn't tell him to maintain east of KADS centerline at all times. He was just way behind that Mooney M20C. I suspect that he didn't advance the power on his go around. KADS ATC also invited him to land there as he was having a hard time seeing the runway.( The lighting is kinda lame). Uncle Steve tells me that Mooney is harder to fly than your bonanza due to all the manual controls. I think the root cause was pilot fatigue and cockpit workload.

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

I agree that he was fatigued and the workload overcame him. I'm pretty sure I said that. Attempting a 5 plus hour flight did not help, and was likely a major factor. He did not allow for the fact he would likely get tired quicker at 87. As I said, he didn't have appropriate boundaries. The Mooney isn't hard to fly than the Bonanza. What auto controls are there in the Bonanza? I haven't found them. Mooney's require more attention/finesse to land due to the short gear putting the wing into ground effect. Speed control is a huge issue in all Mooney's, particularly so in the Long Body versions.

[@WolfPilot]

@@FlyWirescottperdue When I said auto controls, what I meant was electric. I thin kyour bonanza has electric flaps and an electric landing gear where the money has a hand pump setup for flaps and a johnson bar for gear. (if I understand correctly)

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

@@WolfPilot That depends on the model. Early short bodies yes, later short and all the long bodies... Not so much. Electric gerar came out the late 60's. Specific to this airplane, I'm not sure. The original M20Cs had manual gear, but there was an electric upgrade if I remember correctly. If the airplane was new to the pilot I can see manual controls having an effect, not so much if he was familiar but tired. Using a Johnson Bar for flaps works much faster than electric. Ditto for the gear.

[@Mike-01234]

I think Jenny got confused assumed the AP would not release when she pushed the release button. She actually had it so out of trim the yoke forces would be high making her think that. She hopelessly troubleshooted the AP not understanding the trim being 5 degrees down was the real problem.

[@robertbandusky9565]

First thought, NEVER fly a SE aircraft at night. In the situation you mentioned, with fuel remaining, proceed to an airport with thirty minutes of fuel remaining on touchdown and with an instrument approach.👨‍✈️

[@erikvanname]

Scott, I was hoping this video would include a local accident we had here in Atlanta on 12/21/23. N23VS was a BE36 on a sightseeing flight over Lake Lanier. The pilot attempted to land on a very small parking lot at a lake resort. I’m having a hard time understanding the decision making here even if he had some kind of emergency. I’d appreciate you taking a look.

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

I hadn't heard of it. I'll see what is available.

[@igclapp]

There's a lot of discussion of this accident on Beechtalk. Sounds like an engine failure. The pilot could have ditched in the lake, but may have decided not to because the lake is fairly cold this time of year.

[@alscustomerservice187]

VFR on a dark night and no runway insight...I believe my no go point is 1000 AGL and 2 miles and I head to an alternate. I would like to think I would make this decision.

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

I hope you would as well!

[@gregpinetti1782]

Answer: If I had to divert to a non towered VFR only airport at night, in the dark country, Id set my GPS 'direct to' that airport so I can see distance and heading. My chart tells me field elevation, pattern direction, rwy length, CTAF, weather freq (if any), and rising terrain. If I can get rwy headings, I'd set my heading bug to the rwy I think has the best wind. En route Id be looking for the airport beacon, roads and bodies of water for emergency landings. Dial up, monitor CTAF, start making traffic calls and click on the lights asap. With rwy lights on Id cross over midfield at TPA (800'-1000'agl). Try to get a look at the sock, wind T, or whatever I can see down there. Maneuver into the downwind and do a lap in the pattern without landing, getting another good look at the rwy. Stay up at TPA, offset from the rwy reconfirming wind, checking rwy condition, rwy lights and looking at a touchdown point. If heading bug isn't set to rwy heading set it now. Do this as many times as needed (as fuel allows). I'd have a short final go around point at 1/2 mile 400'-500' If I dont like my speed (or anything really). I'd also have a touch down go around point, if I miss, float or bounce or get hit with a crosswind I cant handle, go around. With go around points established, I'd click the lights one more time, drop in and land. I would not do a straight in at night at an unfamiliar field or have a real large pattern. Especially in the country where on a long final you can easily do an accidental shallow approach (black hole) and hit power lines or trees. Having a moon up helps with lighting, spotting the horizion, and positioning - can be a good window reference. If the rwy lights don't work ...I'm diverting to the next airport and repeat. In my opinion, even with the best ADM, this is something a good pilot should be ready to do, if needed.

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

Greg, you're approach is well organized and that's good. A couple of points, the runway lights are very dim, because they are LED solar. There is no beacon. Trees block the view when you're in the traffic pattern, even close in during the day, much less at night. What about now?

[@gregpinetti1782]

As someone so eloquently said in the comments below... "I don't land if I can't see." Great quote, and I'd apply that here. Practicing night landings at different airports with with low intensity, medium and high intensity rwy lighting is good to do. And a lot of these non towered airports with LIRL will also not have a beacon. This can help you become comfortable with low lighting and no beacon airports. So, that's ok. Now, "very dim" lighting could be a deal breaker and trees blocking the view WOULD be a deal breaker. Double divert! As a pilot, I generally don't like surprises. Having to divert to this hypothetical airport at night and then learning upon arrival the lights are too dim and trees block the view would be bad news. That's why when you fly at night it's worth doing your research on ALL your divert airports along your route to avoid this. So, extra research and planning before the flight would have hopefully uncovered this dimly it, overgrown, blackhole airport ahead of time and it wouldn't even be considered as a night divert option. This is a good scenario question - but in my humble opinion there is more to the answer then just saying you wont get yourself in that position to begin with.

[@clarkcrawford1929]

One day in1962 I Plan for the day, Fly a B model Bonanza from Fort St.Joh, B.C. to Watson Lake NWT 390 miles. 2.8 hrs. 4 hour break on the ground. Then Fly South 480 miles, 3.5 hrs. Top off to 40 gallons fuel at each stop at about 30 cents a gallon. Fuel for humans on board (2) food snacks and water of course. Leave late afternoon for U.S.Customs at Bellingham, Washington 476 miles away that's another 3.4 hrs . flying time that makes it 9.6 hours total plan for the day. Arrival will be after dark and iI wiil be flying in river valleys out to the coast through mountain territory. That is not looking very plausible after a while enroute to Bellingham. Now as night is showing its edges and I am getting weary so I decide to stop at Kamloops ,an airport to East of Course and spend the night there instead of tempting fate of get there itis. Mountain surfaces turn solid after dark. The Notams at Prince George reported construction going on at Kamloops, a lighted airport. Arriving overhead Kamloops, no lights on airport dark runway, or bright lights anywhere else close by.. Well ,with this diversion I am not going on anywhere else, everything else is too far. So with landing lights on I drag the airport east-west runway located along a bench above the river to find the runway blacktop broken up here and there and equipment parked on the runway, I drag the parallel taxiway with landing lights at about 50-100 feet it is clear, I land on the taxiway, Taxi Clear, park. get out , pull sleeping bag out for a campout for the night right there under the low wing of prize possession Bonanza. A good rest until morning ,then on to customs next day in Bellingham. Sulfur fumes in the mountain air as I crossed the high country. later on a few miles I notice as I pass by Mount baker white plumes of fumes gently wafting North-Easterly out of snowy peak vents . Some of those fumes were what I was smelling earlier as I flew South-Westerly across Southern B.C. Mother Nature cooking breakfast I presume. I am still alive at more than 85. All you pilots stay alive . No need to hurry. Life is still fun in 80s and 90s those years will wait patiently for you. Stay alert .watch for other traffic as they say.

[@igclapp]

That's a great story! It would be nice to see photos or movies if you have any!

[@frankward67]

As far as your scenario, I personally would have never been in that situation to begin with. I would not plan to go to that kind of airport knowing that I would be there after dark.

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

Excellent idea!

[@bbat2159]

Scott. I agree with you 100%. Pilots without boundaries is the main cause of GA accidents. People being overconfident with no experience. Pretty much the bottom line there. Overconfidence can get anyone in trouble. Regardless of experience. Having learned from experience keeps people out of trouble most of the time.

[@tomdchi12]

You don’t know what you don’t know. It can be hard to set a limit or boundary for someone who doesn’t know that X can be a problem. Scud running (in the mountains!) and trying to squeak it home on low fuel are obvious issues for anyone. But for this Debonaire pilot, the amount of unknown unknowns was probably huge. If I indulge in stereotyping the turbine Lancair pilot perhaps he was someone with the money to buy a high performance plane but not the experience to realize the situation called for a diversion to a longer runway? This is exactly what I value in your videos - as someone who is ultra low time, exposure to these examples and drawing on your experience to comment on them goes a long way towards helping me understand where problems can lie, where boundaries are needed and what may be done when those boundaries are approached.

[@stevespra1]

A landing at night at a VFR only airport that's hard to find during the day is already quite a corner to be backed into. If someone were to do that, everything would have to be right. You'd have to be VERY familiar with the airport, it would have to be a clear night (hopefully commander's moon) and absolutely nothing would have gone wrong that day. Making some quasi approach with OBS etc. is out. Go somewhere else bigger.

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

Good point!

[@57Jimmy]

The one with the Lancair where that control knob came off in the pilots hands leads me to think the pilot was an accident waiting to happen. Look at the length of threading! To be that out of tune with the basic controls and not knowing that knob is unwinding and getting sloppy as it reaches the point of falling off to me is clearly a sign of not being in touch with the aircraft!

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

Ditto.

[@Dazza-u4c]

It would have only taken a few seconds for the Lancair pilot ( or pax) to have screwed the power lever ball back onto the lever by looking at the attachment thread.

[@neatstuff1988]

I think what happened with tennessee was that she was pulling back on the control with the auto pilot engaged indicating trim up. That's a bad prescription you're fighting. The servo in these cases would run you right into the ground. Sad and not necessary. Let's move on smarter. Don't touch what you don't know.😊

[@robertbandusky9565]

As you said, ANY trim problem, autopilot disconnect is a NO BRAINER 👨‍✈️

[@emergencylowmaneuvering7350]

NOOO !. Then we will have to fly the airplane. NOOOOOO !

[@aerotube7291]

Good on you Scott! I'm a bad FS pilot but it's nice to hear you, as an older survivor, gently offering these insights to those less experienced...happy new year from NZ

[@ForTheLoveOfRightRudder]

Have the sense to know you’re about to occupy a smoking hole. What a fantastic saying.

[@calebisrael7165]

I agree with the commentator. The Pilots didn't have personal limitations. A point pre-established that they wouldn't exceed.

[@Mrflightlogic]

Sorry Scott... I got to your channel via Blancolrio... and mixed up the names. Like your style of reporting.

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

All good

[@flybouy11]

As a general aviation pilot under p. 135, I controlled the cancelation due to weather.

[@mykofreder1682]

The autopilot before you start using it, figure out how to turn it off before you turn it on. They were touching the trim understand that, long before that this in manual trim it and if it is your plane mark that position, so in this situation you don't get confused and know where known good you marked is. The can't find the airport in the dark situation was one of the running out of gas in the hill and trees at night accident, 20/20 he had to find the airport. I would fly well above the trees over the airport and find it if possible and consider it if found. Night vision is an issue with age, not from myself but people I know who do not like driving at night anymore, personally I feel there is no difference from 20 years ago.

[@paulflegel8665]

please from a retired Delta brother. Get yourself a mentor pilot. Low time pilots, especially ones that can purchase an airplane beyond their capability have the tenancy to crash. Scott Purdue would be the best one you could possibly get, but there are others out there that would be more than able, and willing to sit along with you not intimidate you, but keep you out of this silly situation. at all times you are flying the aircraft even if George is flying it. Believe it. If you don’t have time to review the owners manual for your AP, then make sure that you have somebody who has thoroughly.

[@wespotter6985]

I'd love to hear the old military stories. Why was the f 4 such a handful. And what about 😮😮the transitions to the f 16 s

[@owenmerrick2377]

Your scenario: Figuring out that the arrival time at a strange, unknown, sketchy airport will be after dark. Nope. The pre-flight planning is far enough. I'd enjoy the moon and stars where I am.

[@CawfeeGasBlast]

Debonair: 300ft wreckage pattern equals straight into the ground?

[@igclapp]

Blalock hit a hillside at about 300mph and a 30 degree downward flight path. Because it was a hillside, the impact angle was more than 30 degrees.

[@CawfeeGasBlast]

​​@@igclappDont say straight in on one breathe and say 30 degrees on your next.

[@parkburrets4054]

Dark airport in the boonies? 1. Make sure you can get back to a suitable airport. 2. Go check it out up high (like the MEA comment) 3. If it's got good runway lights and the moon and stars (literally) line up, then land.

[@Qrail]

I am not a pilot. I have only been in a GA plane twice. A Tripacer, and a Lancer. Based on the scenario described by Scott, I would look for another airport within range with more amenities. Maybe even a tower. Get-there-itis is not a solution. I learned that long ago driving over Donner Pass in the snow. I could always turn around and find a motel, below the weather.

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

Maybe you're not a pilot, but you have a great perspective!