5 Games We Just Can't Love No Matter How Hard We Try

We love games here at Oxboxtra but there are some beloved videogames that, for whatever reason, we just can't bring ourselves to enjoy, no matter how hard we try. Watch on to find out the team's picks on this topic, and let us know your own choices in the comments!
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[@yasminw312]

Now we need "7 Games We Love But Really Shouldn’t" on all the games we love but are technically garbage

[@voidaspects9173]

Oh my god yes!!

[@animegaming4057]

Mine is wanted:dead, I shouldn’t love it, it has all the hall marks of a crap game, but I love it! I love the gameplay, the nonsense pacing, the questionable dialogue… it’s The Room of video games

[@zJoriz]

Good idea!

[@Katastr0phic_Katicorn]

Primal...

[@SimuLord]

Fallout 4. I've called it "the worst game I ever loved." The writing, world design, quest design, everything that makes an action RPG what it is (and especially when contrasted against games like Witcher 3 and Red Dead 2) is absolute trash. But I can't help myself, Bethesda, at least until 2015, made games that were a ton of fun to just load up and play, completely ignoring the world and all the game's ten million flaws.

[@Hailstormand]

When Jane starts going deep on space exploration issues, I am immediately reminded that Jane has a master's degree in physics.

[@ManiaMac1613]

I had no idea Jane had a master's in physics

[@Growly.]

@@ManiaMac1613 3 kittens are on a slanted roof. Which one falls down first? the one with the smallest mew Explanation: The letter µ (MU) in physics: Coefficient of friction It was funnier when Jane told it on a stream

[@thierryfux7318]

Starfield made Jane sad; GET IT! 🤜🏻

[@gorillazfan3]

No she doesn't.

[@nvh119]

​@@gorillazfan3yes she does. In the friendship video she explained that people thought she has a PhD but she "only" has a masters in physics.

[@dizzyroseblade]

I LOVE these less-scripted videos where everyone gets to just talk about how they really feel about different games and we get to understand more about the way y'all see gameplay and worldbuilding and things. Hearing everyone talk about the way they fully experience games really passionately and personally, it's so refreshing in modern-games-journalism-times where usually everything just has to be snappy and quick, I would listen to this type of video for hours.

[@wolfdwarf]

mhm, this Channels really hitting a nice balance between these giving a nice break between the scripted 7 X Things in Gaming, and these freeform videos among other things. good content :)

[@Prof_Hawk]

Loved Jane's take! We are definitely moving away from a Star Trek future and more towards a Dead Space/Lethal Company Future 😢

[@alexbrown7708]

At least the latter two don't pretend to be a desirable future unlike For All Man Kind.

[@baldwinhestrut402]

Was surprised she said she'd still play it

[@andyb1653]

Dead Space/Lethal Company? That's possible, but I think the future we're headed for will resemble Cyberpunk 2077 more than anything else. And we probably won't even get the nifty tech part, just the corporations-more-powerful-than-most-countries part. We're halfway there already. Musk is like Saburo Arasaka if the latter were dropped on his head as a child.

[@anotherdimension8140]

And Jane certainly isn't all that upset about this.

[@andyb1653]

@@anotherdimension8140 Jane doesn't get upset about ANYTHING, it's not just her looks that make her attractive. Ya dig?

[@ducksaucefreeforall]

I wish yall did more personal opinion lists. Love the less scripted ones so much.

[@Lordpooz09]

I think that's why I like the live streams so much, no script, just hanging out.

[@koolaid33]

They do more of these on Outside Xtra if that's your fancy.

[@RanMouri82]

I like both. Sometimes I just have the time and energy for the scripted lists.

[@Mini_Squatch]

I understand Ellen's feelings - its painful when a game series you loved grows in a direction that takes away the joy for you. Its kind of a "dont go where i cant follow" moment and its just bittersweet.

[@danielfishburn7042]

Assassins creed really is like a true sad example of modern gaming lmao started off as an instant hit, then hit after hit, then every year kinda monotonous “here’s the next game” and now it’s what it is. I never liked them but I had so many friends who did and I think black flag was the last one for almost all of them

[@MatthewFronsoe]

@@danielfishburn7042 I'm currently 170 hours into Valhalla and it is a TREAT.

[@custos3249]

*pours one out for Final Fantasy

[@FreshHorses]

Oh, Borderlands...

[@nOOn3nOOn3]

what do you mean? fallout 76 stayed true to the original fallout game play and world building. I still can't get over the fact i paid full price for that game.

[@Rodrigo-ei4ht]

"If the cake is rubbish, sprinkles won't get enjoyed." Wise words indeed Ellen

[@VanillaLoaf]

Good news, Mike! You can set the win conditions in Civ games. Just handcuff the AI by turning off all victory conditions except domination and get stomping.

[@littlebear274]

I definitely get what he's saying even if you set it to only have military and science though. There are a lot of different things that will still be *in* the game and you have to figure out what they are and how they interact to know whether they're important or just distractions you can ignore. Like in the original game even if you wanted to do a military victory it was still important to have some science focus so you could get new military units or you'd fall behind, so you can't just assume that everything that isn't specifically about the military is useless. Religion in particular can give some really great bonuses to combat, not to mention all the unique traits and features of different civilisations which didn't exist until about Civ 5. 2 and 3 started to have *vague* differences, like each civilisation would have two traits out of a list of six or eight or so, and I don't remember what 4 had because I couldn't stand it enough to play more than a few hours in total. So even picking who to play can feel like you need to do a lot of research. There's no way to learn the game mechanics by themselves by playing a generic civ, you have to learn the game mechanics *and* the specific civ mechanics at the same time and be able to remember which are which so you know what will change if you try playing as someone else. It's pretty overwhelming.

[@MartynWilkinson45]

I mean, you could set the max turns to one, score only victory, and insta-win as Peter on Diety. I think Mike means he wants to understand and actually win as the game intends.

[@LapisAndroid17ParkRanger]

Yeh this is the first civ game I've ever played and I don't understand it at all lol.

[@TheSchultinator]

​@@LapisAndroid17ParkRanger I played a lot of Civ 5, and I've bounced off of Civ 6. There's definitely a steeper learning curve for 6, a lot more you need to figure out. I just never felt like I knew what to do or when.

[@RuptimusPrime]

​@@TheSchultinator I was pretty good at Civ 5, but could not for the life of me get a win in Civ 6 until I googled a guide that helped me piece together what I'm supposed to do and how to keep track of which enemies are nearing which win conditions and how to stop them, etc. After reading that guide and giving it a shot, I managed to snatch a win once - and then I never played the game again.

[@Macapta]

Damn Jane go off. Came for the games, stayed for the rant on commercialism.

[@toratio8547]

One of the best things about OX are these moments, honestly. Jane’s whole monologue blew me away

[@SimuLord]

@@toratio8547I love how the same channel can give me deep moments like Jane making everyone think deeply on the entire value of the space program... ...and then I'll load up a Show of the Weekend and just smile like a dummy at Ellen having an uncontrollable giggle fit because Luke made a groaner of a pun that tickled her fancy. Few channels can hit both highbrow and lowbrow absolutely perfectly.

[@robber233]

I mean i understand...but space was always gonna go the Alien (movie universe wise) route compared to star trek. That said i do agree that as a game it should have had that sense of wonder and discovery thats comes with exploration, and it did not. (Please do not take this comment as a slight against her opinions or your own just saying from what i've seen of humanity it seemed inevitable)

[@neshirst-ashuach1881]

Commercialisation of space is such an incredibly weird complaint. The original space rocketry research was about building better rockets to carry nukes. That was the subtext of the space race; " Look how good my rockets are, and be grateful they aren't carrying nukes towards your cities". It was never about some sort of pure love of exploration! This is what you miss? And those modern space companies have brought down the costs of accessing space by literally 10 fold. NASA's SLS rocket costs over 2 billion per launch, wheras the slightly more powerful private SpaceX rocket Spaceship is less than 200 million. Its those private companies that are allowing us to massively increase space exploration, rather than keep on stagnating as we were for decades. Whats the complaint here? You dont like that SpaceX is making loads of money from outcompeting other satellite internet companies? Why? How is this possibly a problem for you? I'd love it if Jane talked about this more, because I'm totally lost as to what her issue is.

[@lkdenve]

Jane nailed it. The expectation of so many space games is to see a bright fantastical future and what Starfield gave us was the current mundane life, in space.

[@muhash14]

Imagine if such a game existed in Mass Effect's world

[@landonewts]

I kind of agree, but I also kind of loved some of those more homey aspects of the game.

[@lkdenve]

@@landonewtsI can definitely see that.

[@machevellian79]

I have it installed, want to love it but I keep going back to Outerworlds.

[@beladendron]

To be honest, there was no point in history when space exploration was "pure and noble." Previously we painted it with a shiny coat of propaganda about "for science" but it was a cold war fight even then. With the end of the Cold War, the drive died. And I'm certain even back then businessmen funded and sought to profit from it.

[@khodexus4963]

So it seems what Jane really wanted from Starfield was Mass Effect Andromeda, but not completely undermined and ultimately abandoned by EA.

[@jazzystar601]

Period

[@Dovah_Slayer]

Oh my god MEA that was such a disappointing game

[@khodexus4963]

@@Dovah_Slayer I agree, largely because it had so much unmet potential. I still think there are aspects of it worth appreciating, but it's hard not to be distracted by everything that just didn't get enough polish.

[@Her_Imperious_Condescension]

​@@Dovah_Slayer I think disappointing is subjective. It depends on what you were expecting. I loved it. I played it to death, but... apparantly I was the only one in the fucking galaxy to do so.

[@Dovah_Slayer]

@Her_Imperious_Condesension well let's see I was A) expecting actual care put into the faces of it B) wasn't expecting Ryder to be an alien planet exploiting DOUCHEBAG as that was a HARD pivot from the previous 3 games need I continue? Because I absolutely can I have plenty more gripes with the story alone

[@danwithah]

Aw don’t give up on space exploration Jane! I’m an early learning educator and I still have kids telling me they want to be astronauts when they grow up. There’ll always be forces trying to commercialise space but it can also still be magical depending on your lens 👍

[@JetpackSniper085]

More of this kind of off the cuff format. Loving that “just chatting” energy I don’t get to express enough as a dang adult.

[@SimuLord]

Go through their back catalog and look for any list that has 5 entries on it instead of 7. Chances are very good you'll get a video like this, and they are indeed the best non-livestream videos on the site.

[@ptonpc]

Same here. I much prefer this type of video. Where they chat instead of read off scripts.

[@carlsiouxfalls]

I like both. The 7 lists aren't really "top 7" lists just 7 fun entries that lets them deliver polished jokes and (shudder) puns, perhaps while exploring an unseen moment of an obscure game or two depending on the entry. The 5 lists are more personal, apparently "off the cuff" bits where their individual preferences and personalities come out.

[@joost0133]

The ones about music are probably my favourites of the entire channel

[@jennieivins]

+

[@huntery3568]

That was a surprisingly heartfelt reason from Jane, and very well expressed. I hadn't really thought about the tarnishing of the idealism of space... We have treaties against the militarization of space, but none about the commercialization of it, which could prove to be even more harmful.

[@magicjuand]

why should we have treaties against commercializing space?

[@username1660]

@@magicjuand Considering what commercialization has done to various environments here on Earth, I feel like it's worth at least reining it in a bit before we hit space in earnest.

[@magicjuand]

@@username1660 but that's exactly why commercialization in space is so much better: there are no environments. we should replace all earth-based mining with asteroid mining as soon as possible.

[@huntery3568]

@@magicjuand I'd say that the industrial revolution has some good lessons to teach us about the importance of regulation of exploitation of new frontiers.

[@Irisverse]

@@magicjuand Do you think the rockets are going to have zero environmental impact?

[@seandevine3695]

My biggest issue with DBD is that the gameplay just doesn’t go with the slasher characters. No matter which slasher you are up against, it’s always “run through a smallish maze of some kind, trying to avoid getting sacrificed to the Spider God on a meat hook.” That would be fine for one (not all) of the original characters, but none of the licensed IP slashers has anything to do with Spider gods, and very few involve meat hooks. It makes the slashers we know and love feel pasted-on to a game that’s not about them at all.

[@RuptimusPrime]

That's why Friday The 13th is so much better, imo. It makes sense for the characters. And also you're actually working towards escaping in a variety of ways rather than just fixing generators. Honestly I never understood why DBD is the more successful game

[@Cam-xh8vy]

@@RuptimusPrime f13 got lawsuited and thus the game had to die basically

[@TheRIsForRizzo]

Andy is soooooo spot on. By all accounts, DBD "should" be fun. But it just.... isn't. BHVR really knows how to split the difference between "good" and "fun"

[@xGodWontSaveUx]

Youre bad at the game its okay

[@8ballmoe]

Learn to accept people have opinions bruh...... ​@@xGodWontSaveUx

[@ka-mai]

Maaaaybe it's just a shitty game? The core gameplay is incredibly repetitive and uninspired.

[@chrismanuel9768]

​@@xGodWontSaveUxNo, the game is bad. There's a reason it has a very small "dedicated" fan base, like Redfall or Starfield.

[@kodychesire]

Personally I started playing it recently with my brother and we enjoy the hell out of it but to each their own. Only thing I really dislike is how pricey the skins are.

[@insainraven9875]

Luke’s point on castlevania is my whole deal with Five Nights at Freddy’s. I love the theory videos, I love the discussions, I love way the lore has twisted and shaped the let’s plays the everything and then you play the game and I’m just like how did this ever become a thing

[@histkontext]

100% my situation too. All the cool interesting lore and mythos around it, and then you play the "jumpscare simulator 101"

[@voidaspects9173]

I'm actually a massive fan of the franchise, and despite owning all the games, I've only beaten, like... two of them? They aren't exactly the most accessible type of gameplay, that's for sure. Like, they weren't supposed to be, it's not like the games failed at being approachable, it's just something that inherently appeals to a very niche audience when viewing it from the gameplay alone

[@icarusthefinal3206]

It became a thing because a ton of big KZbinrs played the first game and made it really popular for the algorithm. Tbf it was pretty fun to watch.

[@MatthewFronsoe]

I'm the same way with God of War 2018. I tried twice to get into it but the game parts of the game just bored me. The story, direction, acting, and all the movie bits are PHENOMENAL and I love watching videos showing the cutscenes but I just cannot enjoy it as a video game. I always joke that it's an excellent movie and I hope they make a game of it one day 😋

[@danielfishburn7042]

I agree I even enjoyed the movie lmao but the games suuuuuck

[@Vanamonde]

As someone with 1000+ hours in DBD and every character prestiged at least once, Andys complaints are 100% valid. Also the ridiculously large perk pool and everything makes it hard for new players to even know whats going on or why sometimes.

[@CorridorCulprit]

And then the community is so bad that they bully any new player for not knowing all 1073 perks

[@rickypedia999]

I have had a love/hate relationship with it for years. I first started after Legion was added and they announced Plague about 2 weeks after I quit because of how toxic the other players were. So pretty much 5 years ago. I still kept tabs on the game to see trailers and read lore, because I did find it so interesting even though I quit the game. I came back for Chucky because between one of his perks and Endgame Collapse, I finally had a counter for all of the things people did to mess with me when I was killer (flashlight bullies that just wouldn't leave after essentially winning.) I've gotten a lot better over the last month though and can 100% recommend for anyone new that wants to be killer that they try to get the Nurse's Calling from Nurse and the Spies From the Shadows perks. They can help a lot with learning new killers because it becomes so much easier to find people in general.

[@phillipbailey2525]

I always thought DBD gets a bad rap, I like the game but it’s not one I can play for hours on end as the gameplay loop is admittedly repetitive. I play on console so don’t have chat etc enabled so I’ve never really had any abuse etc. the worst aspect is waiting to find a game only for people to be AFK or people who just don’t try and mess around. It’s a great game when it’s actually played properly!

[@RanMouri82]

Agreed, as a fellow DBD fan. With so many perks, they tend to depend on other perks to be useful.

[@RanMouri82]

​@CorridorCulprit Solo queue can be a pain in the ass with groups of survivors with their flashlights and booty shaking at the exit gate.

[@MystFox1314]

I adore the Dark Souls series and the other similar From Software titles, but I struggle so much to actually play them because when I try I just end up absolutely terrified of basically everything. Also horror games, I find horror so interesting on a conceptual level but I just can't stomach it and it sucks.

[@darwinheartford312]

We should here Jane's opinions on no man's sky as I think it really is what she's talking about with the explanation

[@JadeAnnabelArt]

I love NMS but it's so disappointing, I love games where you can explore and learn about the culture and races. But once you've seen every creature on a planet once, you've seen every creature on every planet. "Weird goat with tiny head and big body? Well here it's purple instead."

[@darwinheartford312]

@@JadeAnnabelArt I know what you mean but I would say there's so much content in the game that you aren't focusing on that sort of thing plus now not everything is the same and I would say there's some really good diversity

[@nsin121]

Wow. I never thought I'd hear a breakup conversation between a person and a game. Thanks Jane! lol

[@Kris-wo4pj]

She sounds so disappointed and sad

[@SimuLord]

"It's not you, it's...wait. It's totally you."

[@markj3169]

Starfield isn't taking this breakup well 🤣

[@SimuLord]

@@markj3169"But...but...you can fly! You can shoot! You can mine! You can loot!"

[@clothar23]

​@@SimuLord You can walk for hours through blank and uneventful spaces.

[@YankeeBlues21]

I really love hearing everyone’s personal opinions in a less scripted format. The usual list videos are perfectly fine, but more of this would be greatly appreciated.

[@CVL13]

Oh, this is an easy one for me: The Arkham games. Funnily enough, I did complete Arkham Asylum and Arkham City when they first came out. At the time, I wasn't really into the whole culture attached to gaming (KZbin, media outlets revolving around gaming, and so on), so I just played those games when my friend gave them to me back in high school. I liked them at the time, so years later, when I'd become much more involved with the parts of gaming around the actual playing, I decided to replay them. The Arkham games are consistently praised for their approach to superhero comics-turned games. I remember the hype when Arkham Knight came out in 2015 or so, so I decided to replay them, get back into the series, and play through this great franchise in full... It is now 2024. I think I have restarted Arkham Asylum five times since then, I have tried to play Origins (though I have heard more than once that that one's an outlier and is bad in comparison). I don't know why, I just can't get back into the series. No matter how much I try, the spark is just not there. I don't know if it is BECAUSE I consumed so much gaming-related media around the Arkham games and the actual games just don't live up to what I have read and heard in videos about them. The combat system is fun as hell, but at some point during the games, I get hung up, I'll put it down and then just let them sit for another X years until my next ill-fated attempt at rectifying this blight on my gamer record.

[@Summer_and_Rain]

I find that I loss the drive to continue a game if it is "to long". Even a 6 hour game can feel to long, if the story, game design or game play gets to repetitive/grind or just gets drown out. It has been a long time since I watch the arkham games, but I think I remember them being drown out a bit at some point, so that might be why you have not been able to finish them again :)

[@CVL13]

@@Summer_and_Rain Then why did I have no issues while amassing 180 hours in one Witcher III playthrough and have had the time of my life for about 120 hours playing Zelda BOTW over the past few months? :D I love expansive open world games, it's something about the Arkham games specifically that has made me stop multiple times whenever I've picked them back up.

[@Summer_and_Rain]

@@CVL13 Not easy to say :D but enjoyment is probably a good reason.

[@kayleyanna3164]

​@CVL13 I feel similarly. I played arkham asylum for the first time a few years ago. I enjoyed, it was fine, but was surprised to find so much praise for it online. Maybe it's cause I played it so long after it came out and so a lot of the mechanics have now been refined or better utilized in other games, which is of course not the game's fault. I found the combat really repetitive. Everything felt scripted in a way, like there was only one way to do things. That's not always a bad thing, but with this game specifically at one point I just kinda felt like I was going though the motions. A lot of the gadgets felt like keys rather than tools. Like you'd see something and go "oh this is where I use this thing." To go with your breath of the wild point, all the rune abilities can be used in a huge variety of ways that can feel very creative. I know botw has also gotten critism for lack of enemy variety, but I personally never minded because there were so many different approaches to combat. I think another big factor in the enviroments. I don't need to say anything about botw's environments, but I was definitely sick of the whole concrete prison/"hospital" aesthetic by the time I was done arkham asylum. It's obviously not fair to compared these games as they had vastly different budgets, scopes, and came out I different times, but I think it makes sense why you would get tired of one and not the other. I also felt the characters in arkham asylum fell a little flat for me. They were fine but there's better versions of all these characters out there. I get it's a video game and the villains are mostly here to be boss fights, but I feel like the villains' personalities are a huge part of the appeal with anything batman. All that to say I'm totally with you on this one.

[@boonlincoln]

Jane should read A City on Mars by the Weinersmiths... expresses a lot of concern about the current direction of space exploration.

[@GregorBarclay]

Weinersmith…fnar fnar

[@romantrofymenko8739]

The glimpse into staff's genuine personal feelings about these games is actually very sweet and pleasant type of content that I didn't expect to like as much as I actually do.

[@tasherratt]

With space, we wanted the Federation, we got the Ferengi.

[@Katastr0phic_Katicorn]

Thissssss

[@joshuahadams]

At least it’s not the Terran Empire. Yet.

[@langleymneely]

Amen to that! More Trek less The Expanse! (One of the greatest sci-fi shows of all time btw)

[@Daktangle]

It's going a bit Babylon season 2/3 honestly.

[@langleymneely]

@@Daktangle Ha! Totally! Z’ha’dum is just a jump away!😜

[@xananax21]

This is actually my favourite Outsidexbox video. There's something about the members talking more candidly about things they personally care about that makes it way more engaging.

[@sammi_jai]

I love when Physics Jane makes an appearance.

[@AdninAzmi]

Man.. that last shot of Jane's character in the middle of the dancing npcs (even dressed as one) in a space nightclub really had that sense of existential question about who we are as humans and all that talk about that drive to explore and learn things, only to find that everything is no longer as sacred and as magical as we thought it would be

[@anthonybowman3423]

When I was a child I lived next to a forest. My family told me I wasn't allowed to go play in the forest. I would get lost and the forest was dangerous. As a child, I always imagined the forest as a magical place with dragons and monsters and magic and treasure. It's just a little forest. Quite small really, now that I'm not a small child myself. No hidden caves full of magic or monster. The magical forest of my childhood died the moment I got big enough to walk through it. It's a beautiful forest. It's nice to walk in those woods. Peaceful.

[@AnonymousAnarchist2]

Jane did an excellent job of highlighting an existential part of the modern human experience, without directly addressing the political side of it or extrapolating into how it looks in modern human terms. Exploration here on earth should be exciting, enchanting and magical feeling. But. Its not. Its this base line muted average, a catering to the common desires and addictive traits of humans. Its not that its all been touched by humans. Its just like she said about space. The billionares have screwed it all up. Somehow we have forgotten that being human is not just enough, its kinda the only deal, the only value, its the source of value. It allows us to make infinite worlds in a single city and yet. Only safe investments are allowed. It allows us to have infinite possible interactions that change our lives our perpectives and paths. And yet only making or selling the hot new product is valued. the most important job anyone has is raising children readying them for the future teaching them to be better then ourselves. And its a negative value, its something that costs us money not a paying position. Weve devalued the magic of humanity, in search of merch.

[@assassindelasaucisse.4039]

Nah, just a mediocre game. Real life space exploration is still awesome.

[@joelrobinson5457]

With all too many people celibrating commercialisation of human creativity, I feel this, and it makes me sad

[@tiffanywyatt5137]

To be fair a lot of things can be sacred but you choose to not keep them so

[@loopsnake]

Jane's deconstruction of the entire concept of space has absolutely rattled me

[@zJoriz]

Yeah! It was surprisingly succinct too, if I'm using that word correctly.

[@andrewclark8989]

Disagree on things like mining. If we last long enough, at some point we'll probably need to start getting resources from asteroids. Better to ravage dead rocks than trying to squeeze the last bits out of our fragile planet. Space tourism for bazillionaires can absolutely do one though. Enormous carbon footprints of space travel should be reserved for genuine scientific research or where there's a definite improvement for society in general, at least for now. Developing asteroid detection and deflection is clearly something worth putting effort into as well.

[@jmacosta]

@@andrewclark8989 The problem is not mining or finding expansion opportunities like that in space. The problem is that, from the get-go, before even travelling, the goal is not to explore and civilize, the goal is to monetize. Mind you, space will be owned by whoever gets out there first, and so that's their goal. Not noble at all. It's fueled by greed and not by wonder.

[@michaelandreipalon359]

Let's just say we shouldn't go the path of Universal Century, Future Century, After Colony, After War, and especially Turn A Gundam.

[@FortKnoxMovies]

It’s a bit of a double edge sword. NASA themselves has gone on record in favor of commercializing space exploration because private companies don’t have to go through the same bureaucracy as governments. To the point where if we want to reach a point where space travel is accessible to everyone then we might want to lean into commercialization of it. That being said I totally understand people’s concerns about these companies and billionaires being the ones to get us there.

[@lordrav4746]

This less scripted, more personal style of video is so charming! I'd love to see more of these from you guys!

[@The_WerewolfNobody]

I haven't checked other videos to see if she's played it, but I think Jane would get an absolute kick out of Outer Wilds based on her views on space travel games. Absolutely encapsulates the feeling of wonder and discovery.

[@Drakenborn]

That and it's just miles better than Starfield.

[@johnevans7967]

I really like this format where everyone shares their thoughts and feelings in a subject. More would be welcome!

[@askennedy6076]

I was also enjoying the more free-form style with discussion and ribbing. I'd love to see more videos in this format that are still professional but not as polished.

[@honteebee]

every dang time they post this kind of video there's always comments like this, even though they do this on the regs lol. not weekly like the normal 7 things video but they've never stopped doing it or something, they've done a bunch of this and I don't think thye're gonna stop

[@johnevans7967]

@@honteebeesorry for providing positive feedback, it’ll never happen again

[@arrrressss]

I think what Jane is getting at is that the wonder goes out of space exploration when it just becomes another frontier of capitalism. It's out there to exploit and get resources from rather than an endeavor that expands the limits of human knowledge. And I really agree. And why resource gathering in space and corporations in space (unless they're the villains) have never been appealing to me either.

[@ThatOldIcedTea]

It doesn't help that Stanfield rewards your exploration by telling you none of it matters. They didn't need 2/3rds of their map to tell their story.

[@nOOn3nOOn3]

What hasn't elon ruined?

[@Fraxzor]

So when you hear talk of building moon bases as a launch pad elsewhere (because of the reduced gravity) and using the rocks as building material to save on transporting materials there, that's exploiting resources so we shouldn't do it?

[@jodinsan]

@@Fraxzor No think we should... but the difficult part is it's all a balance. There is a razors edge between taking what we need and deciding we need _everything._ That is the part that we as a species can't and may never figure out.

[@skilletborne]

@@jodinsan There is literally nothing in space we need or that would be a better economic, environmental or social alternative to what is possible on Earth. All of our worries about finite resources and environmental damage are caused by the mismanagement of the biosphere, and boy, there aren't trees and fossil fuels in space. Going to the moon for some worthless silicate minerals or mining iron on an asteroid aren't going to save us.

[@AdamGD100]

Ellen nailed it with that Valhalla bit. Hit almost all the points i struggled with in that game. That said, i 100% both Valhalla and Odyssey, and i didnt feel that way about Odyssey at all, except with the faction support stuff. It was weird to choose one side or another in an arbitrary war where you arent actually aligned with either and theres no consequences for switching sides every battle

[@andrewbyrne2173]

It’s notable that Valhalla is one of the few games I never finished.

[@CliffCutterActual]

I feel the same as Mike, the first Civ game I played was Revolution and I was obsessed with it and played for years, but then I tried to play 5 and 6 and I just couldn't wrap my head around it all

[@timothyvanburen3431]

I'd *absolutely* watch Luke do the full chronological playthrough of all Castlevania games.

[@wiz3421]

I 2nd this. As punishment for speaking ill of such a wonderful franchise.

[@hans-ann]

I 3rd this

[@timothyvanburen3431]

Maybe he'll learn to love it, maybe he'll dislike it even more. Either way I imagine his commentary throughout would be hilarious.

[@wiz3421]

@@timothyvanburen3431 Shall we include all versions as well? Might as well pile it on lol. Japanese releases too!

[@neah2k11]

Well not exactly chronological... CoTM has been written out of the timeline by Iga

[@Ruskinses]

I thought I couldn't admire Jane anymore and then she goes and deconstructs the human spirit of exploration

[@lynell3902]

Now do "games everyone hates, but we love for some reason". Basically guilty pleasure games

[@Jaryth14]

Okay, having the rest of the cast chime in is such a staple of this format by now, why are we not putting a boom mic over the peanut gallery? Love you guys. Would be cool to be able to hear the rest of you when you talk.

[@donovanfaust3227]

It's subtitled at least.

[@Typhon-vs3dw]

Honestly it's way funnier when you hear them from across the room.

[@Rubrickety]

"It doesn't inspire me, but I'll keep playing it" is perhaps the most laudatory review of Starfield ever.

[@ZellyTheFangirl]

I'm here for you Ellen. I too miss the original sneaky sneaky Assassins Creed. Although I was already feeling the bloated mediocrity with Origins, because it's hard to do good parkour with no big fancy buildings to jump around!

[@amazingdany]

The new Creed Mirage should satisfy you!

[@MrBananaCheeks]

I enjoyed them until 4, then the whole “If you are spotted one time because NPCs just happened to walk into each other and glitched and now the entire mission starts over” became too much for me. Haven’t finished one since.

[@Her_Imperious_Condescension]

I think Odyssey was pretty fun, even if it has barely anything in common with its roots anymore.

[@monckey44]

I absolutely loved odyssey, but it didn’t feel like an assassin’s creed game at all. I wanted to like valhalla too, but idk, it just didn’t grab me. honestly I’m not entirely sure what I want from assassin’s creed anymore lol

[@raphaelsteyn6558]

When I was playing Valhalla, what made it really not feel like an AC game to me was that there was no real benefit/reason to not murdering everyone, as opposed to the incentive of xp and maybe money for killing stuff. You were also never the underdog in a fight after leaving Norway; the enemies that you might sneak around are always weaker than you. The only exception are the bosses, and those you can't sneak around or assassinate anyway.

[@gabib.6190]

Just a quick response to Ellen's point is that she's 100% not alone on her inability to get into AC Valhalla. My friends and I have tried so many times to start it, and we always get bored and end up quitting within a few hours. And combined we've played through every single other AC game out there, so it's pretty impressive that this is the one we can't manage. Also, the skill tree is IMPOSSIBLE :)

[@justinlast2lastharder749]

I didn't even bother with Valhalla. I liked Odyssey until about 3/4ths of the way through the game when it got old. The Battles are also very underwhelming for what they should be. How can Mount and Blade do it better with a fraction of the budget?

[@gabib.6190]

@@justinlast2lastharder749 Can't argue with you there, although I did actually (for some freaking reason, mostly boredom) nearly 100% both Odyssey and Origins. Valhalla is monumentally worse I've not heard of Mount and Blade, is it more like the older AC games, or what the newer ones tried to be?

[@King_Deadpoolio]

I’ve never felt more heard then Mike talking about Civ 6. Because same friend Sameeeee

[@scorchfiend1597]

Yeeeah I agree with Jane. I know No Man’s Sky had a rough start, but I do remember having that sense of exploration and wonder for a brief time.

[@GwenActually]

I actually really loved the story once I started unlocking it! I always wonder how many people playing NMS actually get into the story. I found it touching at times and kind of horrifying at others

[@dorksanddragons]

My friends have tried very hard to get me into Monster Hunter. It looks cool, all the weapons and armor, the enemies are well-designed and carry real weight. But damn, hacking and slashing the same monster for minutes on end just to stun it to hopefully do more damage. Then chase it to another part of the map and do it all again just didn't work for me.

[@NottherealLucifer]

Yeah, I played a fair amount of World, but after that psychosis wore off I realized how genuinely not fun it is to fight a monster for half an hour, to like fifty minutes, to not even necessarily be able to kill it before it just runs away. To me they're like if any Dark Souls game only gave you a broken sword, and you couldn't use any other weapon, so all the fights take longer. It's artificial difficulty and I hate it.

[@zJoriz]

Same here. And that's not counting the cold, the food, crop management etc.

[@ZackC]

The thing that really put me off the MH games is that they’re not about fighting monsters, they’re about literally stalking them as they’re injured and trying to escape. Even real-life hunting (done properly) is focused on killing immediately with a minimum of suffering. The whole idea of beating and hacking at a scared, fleeing creature is absolutely grotesque. At least Dead by Daylight is upfront about being a horror villain.

[@cookiecomments846]

This is literally me with the resident evil series! I have several of them and I love the games, characters, and lore so very dearly. But I absolutely hate playing them! The stress levels and combat that the series is known for just isn’t for me

[@kyleconnelly1727]

@@ZackC I don't know how you can say its about stalking them as they're injured. You never really go after any monster that is injured most of the time unless you injured it after it was ready to kill you the moment it saw you. And yes we don't get to kill the monster immediately cause they are massive beasts that today could not flinch at full auto gun fire. Most monster you go at are encroaching on people's lives or causing havoc within the ecosystem.

[@GwenActually]

I did not expect Jane's answer to be so heartfelt and touching.. hit me deep

[@KellFendry]

I was not expecting the depth of introspection and self-reflection this video delivered, but it sure was an engaging watch for it!

[@neah2k11]

The games I'd really love to love are From Software games. People see them as tough but fair. I just see them as hard for no reason.

[@franck3279]

The key to success is not trying to appeal to everyone, and it’s totally ok for me, but I too don’t want to play this kind of gammes.

[@chrislevack405]

git gud

[@gabe608]

They look amazing but I know I would hate to play them as well.

[@irinaandreev6950]

Same. I get frustrated when games are difficult and can't push myself past it. Easy mode all the way. I would love to love From Software games but I just can't and that's ok.

[@KasumiRINA]

That's their appeal yeah, they make getting to a shopkeeper feel like an achievement so people get a lot of satisfaction from completing every action.

[@mistformsquirrel]

The premise of this video is *highly* relatable to me. So many games that it's like "This should be 100% up my alley, this is everything that appeals to me. I cannot get into it and I don't know why."

[@MichellePfan]

Excellent episode! I love the deeper dives into why you love what you do and how these seemingly “match-made-in-heaven” games fall short of those elements.

[@landonewts]

Love this video, always enjoy these candid, personal deep dives where the OX crew just talk about what they love and don’t love about games. I personally love Starfield, but I also enjoyed hearing what Jane thinks because she and I share a lot in what we love about space and sci fi, and her take is valid. She didn’t just do a knee jerk takedown, she had substantive and deeply personal thoughts. That’s rare, and I appreciate it.

[@SySoundwave]

I love Jane take on the loss of wonder of space exploration, she put it so well!!

[@marcelodias2518]

I agree. She made good points. Unlike Luke who missed the fast travel tutorial

[@Leith_Crowther]

I remember being in this Digimon RP group. Lovely people, lovely system, but there was just nothing new under the sun in the world they created. All the problems were solved, all the worlds were mapped, and there was just no central goal to work toward.

[@ParadisiacalDreams]

Hades for me. I desperately want to love that game - I love Greek mythology, the characters and art style are so cool, and I like the combat. I’m not sure if it’s just that I’m bad at Hades, or if the genre’s just not for me, but it feels like slamming over and over into a brick wall, and I don’t feel like I’m getting any better when I play it.

[@deathtozemotherland]

I felt like this untill I started to unlock more of the weapons/perk combinations and it had a very quick ramp to a tonne of fun. Definitely something that takes time to build up unfortunately

[@PickaHand]

While I didn't have this problem with Hades, I really sympathize with the "I don’t feel like I’m getting any better when I play it". I remember trying really hard to get into PUBG and it just sucked. Ideally you'd want as much gun fights as possible. Get some experience. Get used to the gunplay. But the "respawn" (leave the game, go to menu, find new game, parachute in) was so long that it pushed me to play it more carefully. And then I'd end among the last people alive and I had absolutely no chance to do anything against them because they just knew how to play the game. It sucked.

[@chukyuniqul]

Dying is what advances storylines tho...just don't treat it as a fail state as if you are somehow bad for being in it. Fitting, really, that death in a game about the the greek underworld is presented as a neutral aspect.

[@kaelinmiller1996]

fwiw I believe Hades has an option you can choose that makes you a bit stronger each time you die. If you enjoy the core gameplay but don't feel like you're progressing, that might be helpful

[@Vincentvondoom]

I'd turn on God Mode if its so hard it is not fun.

[@Eramiserasmus]

I appreciate this sweet talk and look into the staff's personal feelings and love of games.

[@GB-yx9xd]

Fun fact - Kk slider worked on the music for Castlevania which is probably why Luke listens to it constantly

[@BouncingTribbles]

Dead by Daylight definitely has a steep learning curve. Once you're good enough to get immersed it can be really fun, especially with friends. Your early experience as a killer can be especially frustrating when you end up facing a well coordinated team of ninja mechanics. Good luck to anyone who decides to join us in the fog, it's not a pretty place. The nightmare is endless.

[@merepseu]

2000 hours and I still can't really have fun with it. The game is really, really good at telling you you're not good at it. I have to be playing in a super casual SWF or it's just pure stress.

[@dallaselgin2636]

I've been playing for about 2 years and I love it. It's my only daily game at the moment.

[@tigerfalco]

Dead by daylight was a Game I got a hyper fixation on last year. Thing is...I knew I wouldn't play it. I'm just not a fan of horror. I wanted to play Dead by daylight but...well funnily enough he summed up my exact issues. When I'm survivor the Killer either stays on me most of the game and I'm too scared I'll get caught to do anything cuz I'm bad. And being Killer is better but it gives me performance anxiety, especially cuz survivors can be toxic...I don't wanna get tbagged at just because I missed a huntress hatchet...

[@Galliao]

I've given up on trying to be good. I play to troll. Head On and Blast Mine is on every build. I feel bad for the xenomorph. It has such a cute squeak when I hit it. When I play killer, I try to be a creepy Myers (T1 Mirror) ... try being the keyword...

[@stolenfreckles]

I’m a rare solo-q enjoyer … most of the time 😜 … DBD is a game that requires patience and the ability to not take a game too seriously to enjoy it. I play both sides, but I do have days where I realize “maybe today isn’t a day for dead by daylight” … and honestly, I’ve been heavily into the resident evil series lately that I haven’t touched it in weeks. Which is wild, since I used to be on daily myself.

[@sabretoo]

I really relate to Jane's description! Well said. Real space exploration has always been more complicated than the idealistic concept, but in recent years it's become less and less inspiring. Which is a shame. We could really use a big space-themed video game that has that sense of optimism and wonder.

[@HazeEmry]

Outer Wilds is the only one I can think of that hits it for me. Never played it myself but even just seeing a playthrough makes me emotional

[@sunarctus]

Yeah outerwilds defined hits that sense of wonder and curiosity just right

[@anthonybowman3423]

I think it's telling that I read this, immediately thought of Outer Wilds and then saw that that was already the game being recommended. If someone reads this and wants that kind of wonder and beauty of exploration, I think Outer Wilds does it really well.

[@heleneandersson7649]

I also thought about outer wilds. Number one game I wish I could experience again

[@VanBurenPhilips]

I doubt this will make much difference, but I really love this kind of content from you guys. I love hearing you talk unscripted about your passions & what makes you tick as gamers.

[@notoriousbmc1]

I think what I wanted from Starfield was "Interstellar" in space. The idea that this is the first time humanity has made that jump. First time to see a black hole (and beyond). Maybe Michael Caine reading poetry? As empty as most of Starfield felt, it was tainted, knowing that humanity had already been here.

[@GregorBarclay]

Interstellar in space? Interstellar IS in space

[@Pancake-ob1sv]

This is my favorite kind of video they do, the ones where they just talk about their own opinions on games.

[@Smeelio]

I see (or make myself!) comments like this on every video of this style they do, so I hope they've been doing more and plan to keep doing more because everyone really seems to like it! Not only are they all thoughtful and interesting people, but they've got so much experience in videogames and the industry and such, so hearing their opinions is always a treat because (despite being opinions) there's so much knowledge behind them

[@MichellePfan]

Agreed 100%

[@kelvin1316]

I have to agree with Jane, and thank you for putting into words the reason I had only put in a few hours into it. I just don't feel like I am in space while in space. The one thing Elite Dangerous got (mostly) right is you really feel like you are flying your shop, not just crusing around with autopilot. You land your ship, you take off and fly into space, you dock your ship on space stations. Starfield just does all that for you.

[@weneedaladder8384]

I really like Starfield as a Bethesda RPG, because I feel like it does all that stuff perfectly, but as a space game there is a real disconnect between the ground stuff and the space stuff. It's not as bad as Outer Worlds, where the ship is literally just a big fast-travel button, but at the same time I just can't put any time or skill points into upgrading my ship because I'm only gonna be on it for maybe a few minutes each hour I'm playing the game.

[@andrewclark8989]

It's a Bethesda RPG in the same vein as their others, not a space flight sim (apart from some fairly basic dog fighting). The best bits are probably the faction quest lines and some of the side quests. The ship building is quite fun once you get used to it and works as a decent money sink. It's a good reason to actually take jobs and sell loot as you'll need to upgrade your ship. It's very far from perfect, but I did enjoy it.

[@kelvin1316]

@@andrewclark8989 the thing is the ship is what is needed to make you feel like you are exploring in space. It doesn't need to be a full on sim, but as it stands the ship is nothing more than the horse drawn carriage in Skyrim. You can't even get into it without a loading screen. As you say, aside from a few dog fights you really do nothing in or with the ship of any meaning. Now I'm self aware enough to say I haven't got that far into the game, and haven't done any ship modifications, but the point I am at I just don't see the, er, point. You get on ship, you use it to magi-port yourself to another location, then magi-dock and your on foot again.

[@andrewclark8989]

@@kelvin1316 I suspect their engine wasn't built to handle the kind of scales needed to make flying around great distances work like the ED one is. IMO it could be worse if they had flying between planets and moons, but then had to make them absolutely tiny to make it work. But you're right, the encounters you have only happen when you jump to a body, there no point in flying around to try to find stuff that doesn't appear on your scopes straight away. It is more than the horse and cart though. You do need to survive being attacked (you can also board and capture other ships), you need cargo space to carry loot and materials around, you can increase the jump range to reduce the number of in between stops you make, you can make a little mobile home for yourself and crew, and you can try to do all that while making something that looks badass. At harder difficulty levels, you do need to be flying the best ship you can, and that became the main point of the game for me. I didn't bother with the settlement building at all though.

[@YankeeBlues21]

⁠@@weneedaladder8384 This was one of the things that killed Outer Worlds for me as well. I wanted to enjoy it, but the feeling of actually journeying through space with your ship is just so vital to any sci-fi/space fantasy setting that losing it means losing the magic of exploring the final frontier. Mass Effect showed that you don’t need to create a complex ship flying mechanic to do this, just make the ship more of a home where you actually WANT to spend time between planets instead of just being a fast travel zone

[@Superhands92]

I also went from Civilization as a kid straight into Civ VI on Switch. But I loved it, learning all the mechanics and finding new technologies was fascinating to me.

[@AlyrArkhon]

I totally agree with Jane in the topic of space exploration. I grew up reading a lot of scifi and waiting for a game (or more games) where I can explore space and discover new things. (in Mass Effect 1 when you can land on a lot of unmapped planet, there are moments of this. You can feel that maybe nobody climbed this mountain before, maybe I am the first intelligent being on this place, seeing this stars and sunset. But sadly these are just moments)

[@mohsin90ish]

I totally get Mikes choice but it's just funny that every time a new civ game comes out fans are complaining it's too easy and not complex anymore

[@justdrop]

It's because there are objectively best ways to play the game. Some Civs are avoided completely because the premise behind them is subpar on tougher difficulties, but as with pretty much any strategy game to improve you have to know the right choices for a situation. I played hundreds of hours of Paradox games and eventually I learned exactly how much I needed to paint the map in CK2, regardless of who I played as.

[@SimuLord]

@@justdrop As you point out, this is kind of a flaw of the genre; it's less a strategic planning experience and more like a kind of puzzle game where the object of the game is to discover the cheese strat.

[@ZackC]

Yeah, Civ games don’t last all that long if your goal is just finding a way to win. There’s very much a right way to play, unfortunately, and it usually carries across all the various win conditions.

[@superpants87]

@@SimuLord It's science. Science is always the cheese strat in games like Civilization. It enhances all other aspects of your civiliization. From finances to military. It's a victory condition and a catch up mechanic and a steamroll mechanism. Some civs are better than others because of it. Early military civs suck to play as if you don't get to the science civ before they turn the corner. And while you have hoplites, they've got musketmen. And they basically need two to stop your entire army until you catch up in science. And good luck with that.

[@armelior4610]

for me 4X are more a mix of strategy & roleplay : will I be a conqueror, a diplomat, a capitalist (not a pacifist of course that's just not an option with the AI)? but I rarely play on higher difficulties, where in civ 5 you can't even move your units through neighboring countries because there are too many military units in the way...

[@Sanguinis666]

"Castlevania's too hard, but I love from soft games" is such a hilarious irony from Luke.

[@mrmidlife2546]

I think the difference between Fromsoft and Konami games is that Konami has 1 correct way to play and 999 wrong ways to play, so have fun finding out which one it is. Fromsoft is difficult, but looser in how you get over obstacles.

[@Paulafan5]

@@mrmidlife2546 I found Fromsoft games (aside from Elden Ring) to be incredibly limiting (at least, early game). Castlevania is a breeze compared to FromSoft games.

[@hughoverend]

Yay! I love these style of videos you guys do, the long team opinion ones! This drop has made my January. Mine is the Arkham Series. Whilst everyone seems to love the combat system it just felt like to me that whilst what was happening on screen LOOKED amazing, i wasn't really contributing to it. Never been more aware that i'm "just pressing a button" somehow...

[@ka-mai]

Dunno why, but it always felt like I'm controlling a freight train, not a person. Somehow always not doing what I thought I did or half a second late. I enjoyed the exploration in Asylum but really struggled with combat that is universally praised (so that also made me feel kinda bad, that I don't get it).

[@Xiatter]

As someone who has beaten Symphony of the Night around 20 times, and does so roughly yearly as something of a meditative gamer reset, if you can only ever get through one Castlevsnia, I say make it Symphony of the Night. And when you think you've gotten through, maybe, unless you know the "twist", focus on getting 100 percent. Look it up, if you need to. Plenty of people aren't as fond of the second half of the game as I am, but the fact that it exists and that I had to figure out how to navigate everything all over again made this game absolutely legendary to me. Apart from that one end credits song. I still don't understand why that is there.

[@rbamba1731]

Jane's idea of space exploration is just almost the same as mine.

[@heatheryyy]

If it makes you feel better, no one loves DbD. We all just suffer together.

[@Somedaysoon111]

This is such a great format for you guys - loved this

[@andrewlee4527]

Wow, I resonate with Civ 6 section soooo much!

[@nrxia]

I think Jane needs to give Elite Dangerous a try, in VR. What she wants from Star Field is kinda what Elite Dangerous does best. Do you want to really feel how massive our galaxy is and how insignificant we are humans and our tiny our Earth really is? You'll get that from ED. It's amazing. It melted my brain. It's an experience that no other game will give you.

[@alexbrown7708]

I tried it for about 14 hours and I don't get that vibe really. The universe is very much just a bunch of corporations fighting for power and the only aliens introduced are hostile 100% of the time. Also actually landing on any planet is paid dlc that is sitting at negative reviews. The fighting can be fun but you never really find anything interesting.

[@nicholasvinen]

It has some great elements but last I heard they were no longer supporting VR with the latest version (big mistake). It's also very grindy, especially if you want the tech to make a great exploring ship. Still, I spent thousands of hours playing it so I guess it can't be all bad...

[@MadsterV]

A weird suggestion is Megaton Rainfall in VR. It's not a "space game" per se, but you do go out in space at some point.... and then it's fully unrestricted.... you can go cruise around and the scale feels incredible and yes, even scary at times. I was very very surprised at the amount of "optional" content in that game. Space is where it's at, and VR is where it shines. Except for the sudden realignments that make you lose your bearings. But I can forgive that, it gets so many other things just right.

[@nrxia]

@@alexbrown7708 The universe (of Elite Dangerous) is a lot more than what you're describing. Sure, that background nonsense can play a big part in the game, but it can also be completely ignored in favor of just getting outside of the bubble and exploring. Additionally, you can still land on planets without the paid DLC, ED: Odyssey. Odyssey just lets you walk around and play some superfluous FPS stuff. I don't fault you for the opinion you hold, but you're going to need way more than 14 hours of play to pick up the vibes I'm talking about. For clarification, ED had the Horizons DLC expansion which allowed for planetary landing and exploration, but now Horizons is included with the base game, so now everyone can land on (certain) planets.

[@Griffon29]

I may be pilloried in the town square for this, but: Legend of Zelda games. They're really well made, I can definitely understand how they're popular, but they've never really hooked me in past the first couple of hours.

[@andyreynolds6194]

Yeah, I’ll join you on that one, even BOTW I started, played a few hours and just put it down to never pick up again. A whole load of meh, from the combat to the ‘character development’ it was a real disappointment. Maybe I’m being harsh, I’ll dig the switch out.

[@strangeandinteresting]

I agree with you there. I think they're so popular for the same reason I like them - The stories are genuinely good, they have quality presentation. The gameplay was my big problem, I'd never liked playing both the classic Zelda formula or the 3D titles, but I was heavily invested in watching let's plays. BOTW and TOTK are the first Zelda games I've finished start to end (Multiple times in terms of BOTW) since those gameplay changes really worked for me. I know they're not for everyone, but I deeply enjoy open world games like that, so combined with character design and writing I liked, I did deeply enjoy those.

[@NottherealLucifer]

The two most recent The Legend of Zelda games are just meh in general. The older ones are janky by modern standards, sure, but they're fantastic dungeon crawlers

[@gilbert8162]

You aren't alone. I've tried 4 different Zelda games and never got far into them because I just didn't care for them. Even though they are very popular.

[@Intr0vertical]

Same. I love RPGs but only Western ones. Like I just love creating a character and making dialogue and quest choices. None of which are in Zelda.

[@javierce8594]

Jane, If you haven't yet, please play "The Outer Wilds". I absolutely agree with what you said, and this game clicked like no other.

[@nousernameinputed]

I’ve really tried to love BotW and Elden Ring. I’ve played all the Zelda console games and every Soulsborne, so I played both games through once and it was such a chore. The world cannot sing the praises of those games any louder and I just don’t understand why everyone else loves having the good parts of those series spread out over so much game map that you start getting dry spots.

[@ValkyrieLadyK]

This was so fun! Another good list video idea would be: "Games we love but somehow never play", because I know there's several games that are amazing that I never seem to put time into because there's always something else I want to play more.

[@aishaali9771]

Ellen's take on Valhalla resonated with me. I played Odyssey and absolutely loved it, finished everything but the final bit of the last dlc, and it ranks as one of my favourite AC games. But with Valhalla I just... didn't have any fun. I played for two days soullessly, and then decided to give it one more try and called it quits on day three.

[@renegadetla9331]

Exactly the same, I adored Odyssey, but then I tried so so so hard to love Valhalla and I just…. Nope. I just couldn’t. I loved all the side quests and there wasn’t much “bloat” for me, I love just wandering around but something about that really worked for Odyssey with the big ships and the many islands and the amazing Greek landscape. And then Valhalla was like “you want that again? Yes? What about on a less grand scale and also it’s a shittier place that feels like it’s already been explored and also look; cold northern England and everyone hates you.” I couldn’t vibe with it. Didn’t even get close to finishing Valhalla. I just wasn’t interested in this (incredibly cool!) Viking guy/gal who was in a place where everyone hated them and the landscape was meh and the storyline was…. fine. When everything is just “good and okay I guess” there isn’t anything to keep me exploring. Despite magic and stuff existing, I didn’t even want to find stuff, whereas in Odyssey I wanted to see every island and explore every cave

[@scruffy_jobe]

Zelda: ToTK is my pick. I adore the older Zelda's, they are so well built. BotW was a huge step away, but I loved it too. But the new story, new powers, and the contraptions all just diluted what makes any Zelda great

[@yufi305]

I personally preferred tears of the kingdom over breath of the wild. To me Totk felt more like a Zelda game than Botw did. there was a lack of variety in enemies and dungeon bosses, the divine beasts didn’t feel like I was exploring a dungeon in Loz at all, I hated that all the dungeon bosses were just copies of calamity Ganon, and after playing several times, there’s just other flaws with it that disappointed me and I also got bored with it. Totk has more unique bosses, there is way more to explore with the surface, sky and depths, the world feels more full despite being huge and the story isn’t necessarily better then breath of wild’s plot but its amazing and really shook all my emotions more. Not to mention I’m way more intimidated by the gloom hands then I ever was the Guardians.

[@aliendiaries2580]

i felt like this was ur best video ever. i think because of the nature of the topic, the depth and passion in ur words spilled out more than usual. love it

[@jaymz1990]

I do love a glimpse into the teams mind rather than lists. Love these personal videos.

[@mjvdg4194]

My simple answer is Soulsborne games (or Souls-like). The lore, art, and atmosphere are all exactly what I love in games. I even really like the playstyle of them. I just know for a fact as soon as I start most of them that they will frustrate me to no end and the feeling I'll have playing them will be extremely negative.

[@bellyOfaTiger]

I'm on the same boat. Maybe if they came out when I was in high school, I would have gotten through them. But I work a lot, so I don't have the time or patience to play a game meant to frustrate you.

[@chrismanuel9768]

There's this weird culture of dudebros that has grown around them but they're not actually that hard. People just like to feel superior. They ARE hard and they require planning and learning, but no challenge can't be beaten by grinding out a few levels, tweaking your gear, and approaching the fight from a new angle. Try Dark Souls 3 or Elden Ring if you can find either one on sale. They're genuinely fun and the challenge of fighting enemies that aren't just number pools is great.

[@bast713]

Loved Jane's comments about space. It's nice to know she's a fellow Star Trek fan!

[@mtaur4113]

I played co-op Don't Starve once and it was like that sketch from Family Guy when Thomas Edison is across the street having an electric guitar concert with neon lights and a fog machine, and I'm still trying to sew three piles of leaves together and build a camp fire.

[@WidescreenJohn]

I'm so on board with Ellen. I've played every Assassin's Creed and it's still one of my favorite franchises. Valhalla was an overbloated slog that violated the premise of what being an assassin is supposed to be. (Loudly raiding churches? Burning houses? Really?) And the maps were too big with way too much to do. I'll never play Valhalla again because it wasn't an Assassin's Creed game. It was a Vikings Creed game with some assassins' gear.

[@Cunnysmythe]

Strange how they've done that general conceit before but much more successfully. AC4 was a pirate game with assassin equipment but it's my favourite of the series so far

[@WidescreenJohn]

@@CunnysmytheYou're not wrong. It's also one of my favorites. Valhalla just had too much (and that's even ignoring the Valhalla "dream" section); but at least Kenway understood the creed and the role of the Assassins as the game went on. Eivor rejected the creed and just did her own thing throughout the game all the way to the DLC.

[@ethanlappin]

Yeah I've said to a few people now that Valhalla might've been a pretty good game... if it wasn't an assassin's creed. If they'd just made it as a Viking sim with no link to the AC series it might've been really well received as it does those aspects well and the assassin elements almost feel tacked on to maintain the connection, plus of course the fact that it was bloated to heck and far too big like Odyssey. It made a nice time filler for me as I like to be doing something whenever I'm grinding in a game so hunting down treasure makes a nice exercise for my brain while I'm binging a series on my phone and as a result found basically every treasure chest in England on my playthrough but it's sad if the highlight of a game in a series like AC is that it helped me switch my brain off

[@Eliah_Smith]

Couldn't agree more. Also, the fact that the mythology trilogy are boiled down RPGs rubbed me the wrong way. I miss the sequences to replay the more memorable missions with actual characters. Like the King of Beggars mission in AC: Unity.

[@michaelsneddon4300]

That’s becuase we weren’t playing an assassin, despite being called ASSASSINS CEEED evior never joined or wanted to be an assassin becuase it conflicted with the beliefs he had and was taught as a Viking (glory in combat and such, also I used the male avatar so I’m using he for my examples), he helped the assassins and let them stay in his village but this game was more like if we played AC2 and followed Leonardo da Vinci for his whole life and not just the times he was directly involved in the creeds plans, or ac3 But instead of following Connor, we followed George Washington’s life and Connors parts were just more in depth sections. It’s basically a game following the allies the assassins hired instead of the creed itself, like people said they made a Viking game with a coat of AC paint over it, which sucked cause an assassin during the Viking age sounds good enough as a premise. Hell standalone Viking game would’ve been cool if they didn’t try to tie it into assassin‘s Creed

[@slipvskorn]

Jane I get what you are saying 100%. Well said.

[@AimlessGoth]

So desperately wanted a star trekesque Star Field, and have been trying to love castlevania for years, I come last in every Civ game I play, this was a very relatable video!

[@SalKhayer]

Luke's Castlevania pick brings up some latent memories of my childhood, and Jane's pick for Starfield brings me to a realization about modern games that I'm not sure I wanted to know. I enjoyed this video.

[@suzarr8513]

Regarding Civ6, at least on the PC version, you can choose to start your game with custom settings and turn off some (or all) of those silly victory conditions. Personally I recommend it, and it might help Mike enjoy it a bit more if the Switch version has the same options. At least it focuses everyone down the path of the same victory conditions, so you don't lose by surprise. As far as responding to the brief, that game for me is Ark: Survival Evolved. I have such a love/hate relationship with that game. The concept is fantastic: you get to craft a base and survive in some of the harshest environments imaginable. You get to tame dinosaurs, and RIDE them, and use them to fight other dinosaurs! I mean come on! Unfortunately, the execution is just awful in so many ways. It's really an early-access game that they just declared "released" one day, without ever actually finishing it. It's a mess, and I hate it. And I've played around 1000 hours of it.

[@EndertheWeek]

I'm with Mike on this. Hours playing CIV but got less and less with each iteration. I watch play of 6 and it is of little interest. Never played a Resident Evil, Final Fantasy, Lara Croft or Assassin's Creed.

[@KryMoore]

You aren’t a gamer then. Go play COD or 2K.

[@EndertheWeek]

@@KryMoore Never played either of them. Been playing games since Atari console and the list of games I like is long but the title of this video is "Games we just can't love". RE - don't particularly like horror, Final Fantasy JRPG's just didn't cross my radar for whatever reason, Assassin's Creed - don't want to be a murderer (I know it's a game) ditto Hitman and Lara Croft gameplay has never been of interest. As for your pathetic response, why are you upset at my taste in games?

[@juliankennedy4304]

I have to disagree. Mainly becasuie I won the PC versiopn and ever since I upgraded my moniter to 4k I can't read teh writing ion the screen. It is so tiny and there is no resonable way to adjust it. I don;t have this issue with Civ V or any other games I can think off. Civ VI is just unplayable for me on PC.

[@KryMoore]

​@@EndertheWeek Not a gamer.

[@cameronrice2165]

Starfield has loads of dialogue and world building that supports Jane's view. Bethesda called themselves out on this one.

[@andystray4554]

Smite, i loved mobas, a friend raved about it, i thought the idea of learning about diffrent gods in history sounds really interesting and could learn something. Think it was the ui not knowing what my diffrent skills did, having to remember it all at the start, im sure theres a way to read during the game but you should probably be helping your team instead of reading

[@joshuapaper]

James’s comments on space exploration via Starfield. Really good points and an interesting take.

[@zJoriz]

My strategy (if you could call it that) for the old Sid Meyer's Civilization I played as a kid, is actually the same thing I did in Plants vs Zombies: counting on not getting bitten the first couple of rounds. So I would build settler units instead of combat units, and once three cities were going and -- more importantly -- were contributing lots of science resources, only then would I start building an army. Tried that in Civilization VI. The game repeatedly and very effectively thwarted that idea by putting several other nations in very close proximity. So yeah, I feel ya.

[@kaniamia]

I’m laughing so much at the gameplay text at 20:05: The game: (Backed by roaring, victorious music.) “Our glorious civilization has completed the United Nations wonder in the city of Washington! Now we will win a Cultural Victory!” The player: “OK.”

[@danielwolf8365]

Jane wanted an explorer's utopian adventure and instead got megacorporations, Starship Troopers, and mass exploitation of the few humans left in the galaxy. Totally fair criticism, but in Starfield's defence - Tardigrade Costume Spacesuit ;)

[@dojulegiweton6826]

for DBD you need to use the "perk" and its 4. every perk will decide your playstyle, for examples survivor can run out killer if u can see the pallet and window, every pallet u drop can see killer locations for 6 secs, every windows u vault can gain run speed for 3 second, and u can use flashlight related perk to fight back

[@IAmTheAce5]

I wish I could recommend Mars Horizon to Jane- for the meaning Jane finds in the noble pursuit of space, I can think of no better.

[@abhishekvalsangkar]

Luke, play Bloodstained. Its by the same people, same music composer (so at the very least, you get to listen to more wonderful songs). It takes all of the great ideas from every Castlevania game and bundles them into one meaty package. I especially recommend it if you have a Dark-Souls-shaped hole in your heart and need something to tide you over until Shadows of the Erdtree. It's got all the hallmarks of a Souls game, finding equipment that makes you gradually stronger, clearing out rooms and areas methodically then breezing through them after you've levelled up, finding secrets and shortcuts, the whole package. The dfficulty isn't as high as a Souls game, since you can freely swap gear and you'll quickly create your own OP combos and tricks.

[@jetcox6760]

"Space has become less interesting, less dangerous..." Damn, someone shoulda told that to the crew of the Columbia....they were apparently unaware....

[@ardenwarwick1087]

Things we learned from this video: Luke - remains an icon, even in the face of adversity Andy - shockingly, a Chucky-stan (not that shocking on consideration, because Chucky is the most consistent franchise) Jane - astoundingly loyal, even to that which questionably deserves it (and adds another reason to eat the rich for ruining her love of space exploration) Mike - doesn't believe in soft power geopolitics and would obviously see the world burn so he doesn't have to learn complex negotiation or nation building techniques Ellen - hates Norway