5 Reasons NOT To Charge An EV By 3 Pin Socket!

[@NicolasRaimo]

Sign up to Octopus Energy and split a £100 with me! share.octopus.energy/straw-moon-586 Looking for an ev charger go to rightcharge.co.uk/evnick To all the comments who think granny cable charging is fine as it comes with your car the manuals for your car state there for emergency use. It's also in the electrical code under BS EN61851 and BS7671

[@EP-bb1rm]

My manual doesn't state emergency. Have you read every cars manual? Doubt it... And it's not "emergency" in the BS EN either 🤣

[@MrTesla219]

My dad brought the plug to plug in to your outlet or phone or an iPad or a mask, but you can it comes with a different adapters so if you have a math book it comes with a big adapter and it comes with a different cable and the iPads and phones it has

[@nihilriv3r]

Channel owner seems to be petty based on his comments and digs he likes to make. No constructive comments, only telling people they are wrong. What a winner.

[@pjeaton58]

Money in it !

[@hiyaimamelia]

I’ve used the granny charger route with my ev for many years now without any issues. As long as you make sure the socket is well maintained and don’t leave it plugged in all the time you won’t have any issues. :)

[@NicolasRaimo]

That’s like saying you’ve never used your seat belt but long as you drive slow your be fine… there’s risk as noted in video

[@hiyaimamelia]

@@NicolasRaimo yes but the risk is incredibly low, it’s exaggerated to sell the more expensive product. My father is a qualified electrician and has said it’s perfectly safe to use outside sockets for electric vehicles. He was able to check that the wiring was up to scratch and safe for use. I understand that there’s a risk for some situations but if maintained properly it’s really not that dangerous. I don’t think that comparison is really fair as the risk is completely different and is significantly lower.

[@NicolasRaimo]

@@hiyaimamelia have you fitted an earth rod?

[@hiyaimamelia]

@@NicolasRaimo I assume he would’ve done to make sure it’s safe. :)

[@NicolasRaimo]

@@hiyaimamelia bet he hasn’t

[@RexBase]

Because of where my electricity box is installing a 7kw point is coming in at over £1200. Been using the granny charger overnight a couple of times a week for 6 months with no issues.

[@NicolasRaimo]

Just because it’s been fine so far doesn’t take the level of risk away, that’s like saying “am a free climbing up the Empire State Building loads of people done it before and had no issues”

[@RexBase]

@@NicolasRaimo I dont think the risk is quite the same as that! I'd fall off before I started. My comment was just for some balance. I haven't seen any news articles where using a 13a granny charger has caused a fire. Tumble dryers seem a lot worse. Although a 7kw charger is the way to go especially if using Economy 7/Octopus, it's not the only option if it's not viable, the granny is OK!

[@NicolasRaimo]

@@RexBase the number of people with EVs and chargers is relatively low, as these increase the number of people at risk increases, the regs and codes are in place to protect people of course as always people with less care about safety will always exist

[@jeta1f35]

@@NicolasRaimo I've been watching the guys at 'efixx' for some time and don't doubt the concerns they raise. That said if the concerns are valid then does that bring into question the use of granny cables at all. Or, at least, with some very clear caveats around their usage. The problem with that is that it then puts a question mark over the convenience of EV charging with a granny cable, which is slightly against the EV message. People buying EV's vary from those who research the heck out of the concept and go in with their eyes 100% wide open, to those who are less well prepared and perhaps rely on the good advice (?) of folks such as car salesmen to ensure that customers are well informed. This matter might be regarded as counterproductive to making a sale. IF granny cables are risk-rated to being "occasional use" devices, for safety reasons then this needs to be made much clearer. Conversely, if the risk is considered to be "manageable" then that should be made clear.

[@NicolasRaimo]

Stephen most car makes say just that on the cable or manual now, and that’s another reason why this video was made to help educate and spread the word

[@MrAvant123]

I am retired, so 13a is fine for me as 50% of days I dont drive the car. I am an electrical engineer and am confident in my garage/home wiring so dont fear any fires/disasters ! For dodgy electrics your scaremongering may be valid. What you guys are selling may be okay for those that still commute/drive every day.

[@NicolasRaimo]

Pen fault doesn’t care about your wiring

[@jam99]

@@NicolasRaimo But what if the pen fault detection device fails? Because of this, surely it should be important to wear rubber boots when plugging and unplugging the car.

[@NicolasRaimo]

@@jam99 if the device failed the power would be off

[@jam99]

@@NicolasRaimo So it is impossible for a PEN fault detector to fail in the 'on' state is it?

[@NicolasRaimo]

@@jam99 I’d need to check with some engineers but they are designed to self check and daily check and if a self fault is detected it’s designed to shut off I think the relays are designed in an always off position and only when system is on is power on

[@bdeithrick]

Great video. Nobody knows this stuff. The spring pins just can’t cope.

[@anthonydyer3939]

In terms of heat buildup, many people do have 2-3kW room heaters in various flavours. Often they only get used when the main boiler packs up. Don’t they constitute a continuous load, especially if the house is stone cold and it’ll be a while before the thermostat turns it off? Wouldn’t the socket be adequate for this kind of use? If so, isn’t this issue nothing new? I have an EV charger at home, but I do use the granny charger when on holiday or visiting relatives. They have their uses, and I’d be rather inconvenienced without it.

[@marklola12]

all granny cables have a thermal sensor in the plug. tbh nothing wrong with them all this video is about is to try get people to have a 7kw charger when alot can not have them

[@martinwinlow]

No, they don't - or shouldn't as eventually they will heat the room enough to turn on the heater's built in thermostat and switch off. It'll come on again in due course to maintain what ever heat setting the user has implemented but if, somehow, left on for too long, they will trip their built-in protection to prevent continuous use. But pease read my other replies here - essentially the video is tripe (for the vast majority of users) and is just yet another scare-mongering tactic by the electrical industry to drum up completely necessary work (along with PEN loss, metal consumer units, EU-imposed wiring colour-change (from red and black to brown and blue), yada, yada, yada). Clearly *no one* has ever done a proper, realistic risk assessment on any of this twaddle as if they had they would find that the reduction in deaths and serious injuries from all of it put together is minimal. Someone will always find a way to kill themselves no matter what precautions industry/HMG take and the cost of trying to prove me wrong is, meanwhile, crippling the country.

[@woodster83]

I can't believe you are not considering people who live in terrace houses and havent the luxury of a proper charger. It's all well and good throwing the mud around but you aren't helping the guys who need to charge with a granny charger. Any chance you could do a video highlighting the best possible way to charge with a granny charger, I bet you'd get 10 times the views of slagging it off!

[@NicolasRaimo]

Matt its not that am not considering people who live in a terrace house its just am stating facts of 3 pin granny charging. People in terrace homes can still have options of fitting these chargers why would they not? I don't condone granny charging as a frequent use of charging as I know the risks but you can limit the risks by installing all the safety devices listed by which point you may of just fitted a dedicated unit...

[@woodster83]

@@NicolasRaimo like I said, if you did a video on the safest way to charge and all the options available on granny charging you’ll get a lot more hits 👍🏼

[@NicolasRaimo]

@@woodster83 again its not something i agree on there's no excuse not to get a dedicated unit fitted for everyday charging I'd rather no condone something I think has higher levels of risk than needed for the sake of someone being cheap

[@woodster83]

@@NicolasRaimo my parking space is 25m from my house and my fuse box is the other end of my house. There is no way for me to be able to get a charge point to my car, but for you to call me cheap?! Are you ok?!!!!

[@NicolasRaimo]

@@woodster83 Please see efixx video where they did just that. You'd run a cable from your meter threw the floorbroads assuming your a mid terrace not an end, you could also run in loft space if its not converted/living area, then run it down the house maybe following a drain pipe, then across the garden either digging it up or down the fence. Yes it would cost more but this is the only safe way of doing it. 1 thing you should NEVER do with a granny cable is plug it into an extension cord

[@melgigg]

I’ve been doing all my Tesla charging with a three pin charger for sixteen months now, two or three times a week overnight is enough for my average weekly mileage, no problems at all 👍

[@NicolasRaimo]

I've been driving my car for over 15 years now never had to use my seat belt yet, but if i ever do ill be glad i followed the rules set out

[@ricky302v8]

@@NicolasRaimo What 'rules' do you think melgigg hasn't followed?

[@ronshazbut2723]

If you are doing the average 12,000 miles per year the average charge time per day is about 4 hours on a 3 pin plug. Many granny chargers have built in safety devices. On the very rare occasions I need to charge faster there are plenty of rapid chargers in my area.

[@jam99]

@@ronshazbut2723 You should still be aware of the strain on the plug and domestic wiring at 10A. Something like only an hour may be enough to cause a breakdown of a socket and resistance losses may be great if wiring is iffy. You just need to be aware of your home wiring condition and circuits, and state of your socket on the circuit you will be using. Even better, though, and not mentioned at all but ideal for low mileage users is the fact that granny leads are available that offer charging rates switchable between 6A, 8A or 10A charging. 6A and 8A have far less risk. The PEN fault issue is separate and is up to your own risk analysis. What should be happening is that the DNO's should roll out grid isolation switches to all domestic premises as well as PEN fault detection devices in all homes but there is no profit benefit, unlike with smart meters, so it is unlikely to happen. Instead, if you want to use electricity safely, the consumer must pay. I believe the regs say that electricians should not be installing 3-pin domestic sockets intended for lots of EV charging unless PEN fault detection is implemented. It would be nice to see the stats on PEN faults relating to EV charging. Last time I looked I think there were something like 100 reported PEN incidents per year in the UK and few were fatal. There are almost 70million people in the UK. However, the increase of unprotected outside electricity use on isolated 'earth' wired metal devices (e.g. granny charging a car) is likely to push the figures up. Regardless, it should be the responsibility of the DNO to ensure that electricity is being supplied safely upstream of the meter. If a fault occurs outside of your home creating a PEN fault then it should be the responsibility of the DNO to detect it and cut your supply, not the consumer.

[@maxflight777]

@@ronshazbut2723Well said !

[@DisturbedM86]

Love coming across this in July 2022 when we're on 28p kWh going up to the 40s soon and no possibility of changing to eco 7 or EV tariff.

[@NicolasRaimo]

There is! Stay tuned Saturday video

[@johnburns4017]

Is that 21 hours for the 330 mile Tesla? If so, a comfortable 200 miles will be approx 14 hours. As most people never let a car's tank run below 1/4, the average to ensure a fully charged battery is 10 hrs. That is, if you plug your car in overnight you wake up to a fully charged battery in the morning. *But the 7kW chargers **_are_** better for sure, if a **_quick charge_** is needed.* And realistically the charger should be on it own circuit. Charging off a 13A ring will also induce voltage drop on that circuit maybe affecting other appliances.

[@cjmillsnun]

Two of my favourite KZbin channels collaborating. Love it.

[@NicolasRaimo]

Check out 2 videos i did over at efixx ;)

[@emilylouise1979]

I'm always wary when I see the word " collaborating "

[@GSHElectrical]

Wow team eFIXX invade the channel - love it - great content EV Nick 🦾

[@NicolasRaimo]

Efixx were great to work with, the younger guy called Gary is top notch as well i think Gordon's his dad?

[@upmyown]

Thanks for a very interesting video. I'm a retired electrician, and have learnt a lot from this!

[@NicolasRaimo]

Glad you enjoyed it there is a range of EV chargers for sale with different functions tons of them I have to review on my channel, also Efixx demo some of the safety aspects of them

[@martinriley106]

Well done guys! Educate the country on what to do when you buy an EV. We had potential guests trying to con us into believing that they charge their car on a 13amp socket. But because I’m an electrician anyway I had already researched this when EV’s started coming out, so I know better. People need to ask their car supplier to provide full details of what is required to charge their car safely?

[@NicolasRaimo]

Fit an EV charger for your guest and charge for use of it your get more clients

[@maxflight777]

🤦‍♂️

[@paulkeenan1771]

Great video I've charged my phev from a 3 pin socket since i bought it 1 year ago with no problem

[@REMICHANICS]

Great video Nick! The only worrying thing is when professional electricians speak of a 70 kW battery...

[@NicolasRaimo]

It just proves how easy it is to verbally make mistakes with no script even when you know what your talking about if they wrote it down they’d do it instantly

[@steveharvey2001]

@@NicolasRaimo they even wrote "70kW battery" on the whiteboard 😫

[@efixx]

The other glaring error is it takes more than 70kWh to charge a 70kWh battery 🔋- but car manufacturers don’t talk about that shhhhh!

[@NicolasRaimo]

@@efixx sssh don’t talk about loses

[@jam99]

The cost analysis also failed to include standing charge differences between economy 7, Octopus and others, and the fact that with economy 7 and Octopus, the on peak price is likely to be higher than on an alternative tariff. It's all up in the air at the moment with the volatility and distortion due to the price cap, so general comparisons cannot really be made just now. But it was certainly the case a while back.

[@gazzaman28]

In the 18 months I've been charging using the granny charger and an RCD extension lead I've had a socket crack, and another socket just stop working entirely. I'm finally getting a drive built so I can then get a proper EV charger fitted, so at the moment I'm doing it in full knowledge of the risks involved.

[@NicolasRaimo]

many think there is no risk....

[@jonanders76]

@@NicolasRaimo . There are a lot of dim wits in England and they hate listening to experts

[@ianhamilton3113]

We have been charging our 40 kWh Leaf on a granny for nearly 4 years with no issues. Our electrician had upgraded our system 4 years before we bought 2 EV's and quoted us for a charger installation which required upgrades - due to new reg's not because they were actually required. He said we could charge both EV's without issue on our grannies. We sold our 24kWh Leaf last year, so down to one car now. Seven hours night rate at 8p gives us 43%.

[@NicolasRaimo]

The age old it hasn't gone wrong yet so its fine argument.... I wonder if you feel same way about airbags on your car if I took them all out?

[@ianhamilton3113]

@@NicolasRaimo Is that really a good analogy?. You could measure the lives lost without air bags but homicidal granny cables!!? Roughly 1850 deaths on UK roads every year. So I am taking much, much more risk driving the thing than charging it. And I did check with my qualified electrician and he was happy. I do get your point in the video though, for many people they will need a dedicated charger for speed and I will install one at some point when I add solar. You will be the first to know if I have to eat humble pie - well after the fire brigade.

[@NicolasRaimo]

@@ianhamilton3113 it’s not just heat risk the PEN fault risk could kill also and then we have DC leakage

[@russvhill2]

Although the guys presented "perfect storm" scenarios, and it's good to know what to look out for, what the Maths guy didn't include in his flip chart calculations is the horrendous cost of having a 7kw charger installed. If you're lucky you might pay the £700+ quoted in adverts, however all my quotes came to twice that amount and that would make my fuel costs the same as petrol for probably a couple of years at my annual mileage. As you say Nick, you are not an electrician, and those jolly guys in the fancy red uniforms trying to sell their services and putting the frighteners on The Public, look like the Electrician versions of a used car salesman.

[@NicolasRaimo]

Efixx is not an installer they don’t sell or fit charge points Gary used to be a lecture

[@efixx]

First time we’ve been referred to as used car salesmen - could be a new calling for us. Questions for you - How old is the electrical installation in your home and how are you charging at the moment.

[@NicolasRaimo]

@@efixx can I add... when was the last time you had your electrics tested

[@100tinsoldiers]

@@efixx if it helps I'd buy a used Cortina from you.

[@efixx]

@@100tinsoldiers The Cortina has just gone - We do however have a beautiful Austin Maestro - low mileage, one careful lady owner.

[@feline-fox]

Hmm interesting video.... it is strange that this was recommended to me after watching the efix video about specific EV rated 13A outdoor sockets. It is strange you don't cover that in this video - would be good to see an updated one.

[@NicolasRaimo]

Joe missed out on certain parts of the regs from that video see efixx livestream week after with me on

[@jakegreek1]

What if you have an ev that has a far smaller battery than a Tesla. For example a 41kwh battery and you use a wall socket granny charger just to top it up... The charger is on for 4 hours max whilst under supervision.. surely this will still be beneficial for charging

[@NicolasRaimo]

Your missing out on lots of safety aspects and also missing out on cheap rates a 41lwh battery would take much longer than 4 hours to charge that frequent use of the charger would also mean the issue we mentioned could happen to socket as it ages

[@jakegreek1]

@@NicolasRaimo the problem I currently have is I'm not allowed to have a charger box fitted but I'm allowed to use the three pin. I only use it for short periods just to top up the car as my journeys are not very long... Maybe it would just be better to use commercial ones at shopping areas or electric stations in the future

[@NicolasRaimo]

@@jakegreek1 why can’t you have a charger?

[@jakegreek1]

@@NicolasRaimo this is probably a strange one for most people to understand... I work and live at the same place, in staff accommodation. They won't have a home charger put in but allow me to use a three pin socket. I think it's for money reasons but I have said I'll pay, still a no...

[@NicolasRaimo]

@@jakegreek1 would they consider maybe using it at marketing to say there being green?

[@jsw1976]

It would be nice if this video presented some practical steps to take to reduce the risk of using a granny charger for those who can’t get a charger installed immediately/can’t afford one immediately etc. Despite the responses from the creator and his comrades, there is a lot of fear mongering going on here with no perspective on risk.

[@NicolasRaimo]

If you own a car your privileged however if you own an EV your also privileged and have a good amount of income, the cost of an EV charger to be fitted starts at £650 a small cost on safety. The step we provide to reduce the risk is a dedicated charge point. Most the issues we discussed can't be reduced as it requires additional equipment WHICH we mentioned in video. No fear mongering safety and electrical code exist to limit risk. I've made you aware of the risk if you choice to ignore it that's your choice.

[@VideoGameKillCounts]

I am in the military and there are restrictions on me installing an EV charger. Sad I know, so I’m keenly looking at using the Granny Charger once per week but the scare mongering is unreal. I have a Tesla Charger awaiting approval to install, but until then. I have to use the public chargers which are not conveniently located for me in the middle of nowhere wheee at a military base. The base has chargers, no public vehicles allowed either. So in my situation, I rely on the granny lead to top up. I have yet to use this method as the risk/fear perpetuated vs those with no issues is a factor I will have to figure out myself.

[@JamKick]

Some commando sockets have rcd protection switch attached. What wrong with using that? Especially whwn installed by a qualified elec.

[@NicolasRaimo]

We mentioned that if installed to regs it’s fine but most are not and if you gone to that effort your almost price of a charger

[@JamKick]

@@NicolasRaimo no you didnt. At 9:15 when the socket was mentioned I believe you said morally he shouldnt install it as it has none of the protection features.. Commando socket with rcd built in is less than £200. Those chargers beging above £400. All i want os someone with the knowledge to give me a fair honest opinion.

[@NicolasRaimo]

@@JamKick pen fault systems more than that

[@JamKick]

@@NicolasRaimo so commando with rcd and pen fault added, if not already on the house and we are good as have an EVS? Still sounds like the more affordable option. Most cars have timers to set when to charge amd when to stop so again struggling to see why the £400 plus pound spend.

[@JamKick]

@@NicolasRaimo some chargers dont have pen fault as well i understand so may still need to have that added..

[@ShaunDobbie]

A lot of chargers have a temperature sensor in the plug and options to charge at a slower rate.

[@NicolasRaimo]

They still be missing the other safety equipment

[@100tinsoldiers]

That's great, so only 42hrs for a full charge

[@box.10]

Yes and Boris Johnson may fall from a chopper through my roof on a Wednesday too....

[@bernardcharlesworth9860]

Not seen that is it a rtd. Thermocouple or thermistor device.the control equipment connected to that would be interesting.

[@InappropriatePuppets]

If the comments weren't led by a pinned comment with trackers that have commissions associated with them a lot of people wouldn't be quite as defiant. Is there a risk? Yes. Is the risk greater than the number of house fires that have been caused by charging mobile phones? No. Is there anyone who has watched and commented on this video who has had any issue with 3-pin charging, or know anything who has had it? Seemingly not. Does that mean the risk doesn't exist? No. Does that mean the risk is acceptable for the vast majority of people for one reason or another? Yes.

[@frauditorsubslickboots]

Pin this!

[@sumiruddin3044]

if these granny chargers arnt safe then why does the dealership sell them. my car is a plugin hybrid it has 8.7kw battery it takes 4hours to charge and i get 36miles is that ok to charge for 4 hours

[@NicolasRaimo]

They should be banned however technically there allowed because they have no control what you plug into, if you decide to use a non fully protected socket that’s your issue no there’s. They do now all say however on the label for occasional use only

[@MUFCSINCE90]

4:59 Oh! Where did you get those tiny pallet coasters ❤❤ they’re gorj ❤❤

[@zexalex]

Those 13amps sockets are not fit for this purpose. But you can install a proper one. And in EU you have proper EV certified 16 amps sockets. These can be suitable for plug in hybrids, if you do not mind charging at 10amps for 7 or 8 hours.

[@jondonnelly3]

Aye not designed for continuous load. Not hard to replace a socket with a Euro Schuko one and most charge leads come with one.

[@azw409]

I don't understand why granny chargers don't come with two 13A plugs and then you could split the load over two sockets and ramp it up to say 15A.

[@salibaba]

Whoa what a thumbnail, if my feed wasn’t as busy with everything electric, you’ve now started crossovers lol

[@NicolasRaimo]

Did this thumbnail swing you into watching me... Welcome!

[@salibaba]

@@NicolasRaimo well I’ve already caught a few of your videos so will probably just sub and be done with it :) the efixx guys are also a regular feature on my feed as I’m still swaying on which evse to have installed following my recent renovation and rewire as I’ve only got a 13A outside socket to use for my driveway charging. I’ve got a chargeplace post at the end of my road which sits empty most of the time so I’ve just been sticking it on that overnight once a week while it’s free for now. Will need to get something better at home for convenience plus I’m considering solar when funds allow.

[@NicolasRaimo]

@@salibaba welcome as a new sub then ;) few charge reviews already on channel and more to come soon

[@matthewhicketts3242]

Thanks for the referral Nick, we bought our little second hand ZOE in February and it’s only when I got the electric bill I realised we’re paying 16p per Kw. I’ve just switched now using ure code

[@NicolasRaimo]

Thanks so much for using my code

[@colinhea]

I think this is just an add to sell their product Obviously something that charges faster is better .But if it is dangerous to charge by plugging in to your home 13amp supply .They would not be allowed to supply the cable to do it.

[@NicolasRaimo]

Non of us sell chargers or fit them not a single one of us

[@jam99]

One problem is that the DNO no longer takes responsibility for supplying you with a safe electricity supply. It will fix a fault but it is up to you to detect a PEN fault outside of your home before it kills you. Separately, the warnings about poor domestic wiring and poor sockets being incapable of supplying 10A continuously are very valid and you should take heed. The problem here is that the specification of something is only good for a small amount of time and when installed by someone competent. Much electrical work has been subject to incompetence and is old. The 10A granny charger relies on safety measures and specifications that were not the concern of its manufacturer.

[@briangriffiths114]

I was quite happy with my Masterplug granny charger, which is permanently plugged into a previously unused garage socket and was only used for a maximum of 2.5 hours at 8 amps. But then I saw this video and had a 7KW tethered charger installed, which I now use without any nagging doubts about safety.

[@maxflight777]

You’ve been frightened by people making money from 7KWh chargers !

[@RacingHippo]

I'd have been more receptive to the content of this video if you hadn't spent the first half making scary calculations based on one very false assumption: You don't need to charge a car to full in order to use it! Let's say I charge mine for 5 hours on its "granny charger" (limited to 10A). And let's assume that with losses/inefficiency I'll only get 2kW out of it instead of the theoretical 2.3kW. That's still 10kWh, and in my Hyundai Ioniq that'll get me on average 40 miles. The days that I need to do more than 40 miles in a day are very rare. If I need to go further, I'll charge on a public rapid charger. Most real-world actual EV-users are the same. Granny-chargers are for topping up small amounts for day-to-day use. I'd love to have a proper 7kW charger, but as the supply enters the house right in the centre of the building (under the stairs in a very small cupboard), it's just not feasible (which is why we haven't been able to fit a smart meter). Unfortunately, this smelled so badly of "inflated statistics intended for scaremongering" that I regarded the rest of the video with equal scepticism.

[@briangriffiths114]

I will be buying a small EV within the next few months and my motoring requirements appear very similar to yours. Your calculations almost exactly match mine and I would probably set a granny charger at 2 KW (many let you vary the load down right down to the electronic handshake) so that the EV was receiving 1.8KW) for up to 5 hours but initially check the socket temperature periodically as a safeguard. Whilst I take on board all the points made in this video and would buy a 7 KW EV charger once I my grant application was approved (and my installer can fit me into his busy schedule!) , there are thousands of people charging EVs via 3-pin sockets who are doing so without issues so long as they use their common sense and don't overload the system.

[@RacingHippo]

@@briangriffiths114 The biggest potential issue with granny chargers isn't the charger (EVSE) itself or even the socket it's plugged into - it's the path the current takes between the incoming supply to the house and the socket that you're plugged into. Ideally you'd have a radial circuit fed straight from its own MCB in the consumer unit, specifically for the purpose and with nothing else plugged into it. But this is rarely the case, even in the unlikely event that the user understands all of that - to most people one 13A socket is the same as any other. Alas, the "common sense" that you refer to isn't very common, and an awful lot of people would have no idea if they were "overloading the system". Slight imperfections in house wiring can go for decades without causing a problem, because they are never put under stress. Charging a car puts it under stress for hours at a time. The more often you do it, the more likely something will go "fzzzt". So it's good that you're on the path to getting a proper 7kW charger fitted!

[@briangriffiths114]

@@RacingHippo Thank you John, your comments are again bang on the money.

[@octaviancrainic429]

Great video.Is there an option to charge your car if you don't have off street parking?can I install one of this?

[@DanielK473]

Great format and lots of good information. Thank you!

[@Phoenix258]

ahh yes, just 412 likes and an advert for octopus energy. definately a video to be trusted.

[@NicolasRaimo]

efixx have half a MILLION youtube subscribers... your point being?

[@wanderingwilcoxs]

Well this is an unbiased video lol 😂 I’ve charged my car on a 13 amp socket All be it a ev approved one for 4 years no issue most people do less than 20 miles a day so topping up is perfectly fine for 95% of the time plus you have saved £750 to £1500 on a home charger to spend on the occasional public fast charger

[@NicolasRaimo]

How is it a biased video… the safety risks still exist unless you fitted the additional safety equipment your argument is like saying I only drive 2 miles a day so don’t need a seat belt

[@wanderingwilcoxs]

@@NicolasRaimo because they want everyone to buy a home charger it’s the business they are in they are hardly gonna say 3 pin charging is safe. Wake up and small the coffee !!

[@NicolasRaimo]

@@wanderingwilcoxs who’s in the business of home chargers? Non of people in video fit or sell them

[@chillmeister]

Hi Nick, my parents beat me to an EV! They’re looking at getting a charger installed. Is there any clear leader or do you have a personal recommendation on what brand and how to get fitted? Happy to be referred to other videos. Or if any other viewers want to chip in that would be good. BTW, I’m aware there’s loads of info out there, but it feels like a fairly fast moving topic.

[@chillmeister]

In case you were wondering, ID.3 is what they went for. I know the issues with software and interior, but it’s a great car for the money.

[@NicolasRaimo]

Hi James check out my playlist kzbin.info/aero/PL5PJg4d7Q2BKxdpaOFw6NK0oAThDyuSn0 this contains all the chargers I so far have reviewed and if you go to rightcharge.co.Uk/evnick they can help get one installed but clear winner is hard it’s down to features your parents need. For example Solar? Dynamique price shifting Load balancing Multi EV cars and chargers Sharing charged? Price? Or a combination of some of above

[@chillmeister]

@@NicolasRaimo Thanks. I’ll look through Nick, but to respond directly: no solar, one car charging, no dynamic pricing, cost (which I know conflicts with no dynamic pricing).

[@chillmeister]

@@NicolasRaimo BTW, on mobile at least that link to rightcharge doesn’t work.

[@NicolasRaimo]

@@chillmeister fixed try now

[@bradscott2432]

Im renting and my landlord won't let me fit a 7kw charger so I have to use the the 13a socket otherwise I'll have to not drive my ioniq electric and drive my diesel Megane instead

[@stephenclay6852]

Great video nick. I have a 7kw home charger and use that but also have a granny cable which I call it a get out of jail card. Not something you use to fully charge the car just enough to put sufficient electricity in to get you to a proper charger. Most new Ev’s now don’t come with the granny cable. My new Kia Ev6 for example didn’t nor does the Ford Mac e. But I know people that use the 3 pin plug on a regular basis

[@NicolasRaimo]

Thanks for the comment and welcome to the channel!

[@efixx]

Thanks for dropping in! - We couldn’t believe people would stick with a 13A socket for charging.

[@NicolasRaimo]

Its very common place in EV consumer market as they assume it came with the car its safe... As we know even a new install of a 13amp plug doesn't have the required safety to meet the regs if it was installed for the purpose of charging an EV and many customers I suspect ignore to tell the electrician that is the purpose of it!

[@EP-bb1rm]

You couldn't believe people would avoid spending £500 on a charger, whilst still safely charging their car with a good 13A socket?

[@lindasims7130]

@@NicolasRaimo the 13 amp plug on my cable is waterproof and sealed and came with a very substantial cable. I would not put it on an extension cable unless it could take 3kw. I always use less than 3kw ie 12.8Amp. In fact it has not drawn more than 2.4 kw on my BMW i3 and that is at maximum setting. I use my solar panels and can see what is going Ito the house what is going into my solar battery and what is being fed into or from the grid. When I go to my son's house he has waterproof outside socket which I have successfully used. I am retired and not in a hurry.to charge it. I have foundd commercial chargers very confusing. I have a range extender which gives great peace of mind.

[@jam99]

It’s not just £500 to buy and have a decent charger fitted. Firstly, the dno fuse may need replacing. The dno wiring may need replacing. The electricity supplier may have to liase with electrician/dno to upgrade meter wiring. Good luck with that. Then the electrician may say you need a new consumer unit. There will be no dno isolation switch so the electrician pulls the dno fuse against regs. Oh, but now the convenient regs say he has to install pen fault protection, Type B RCD and surge protection. Then the ev charger can be installed. Total cost could be £2k or more using a '£500' charger if he doesn’t decide any of your house needs re-wiring aswell.

[@EP-bb1rm]

@@jam99 500 was just an arbitrary number, I realise all those things are in effect. But you shouldn't be paying for an updated fuse, DNO does that for free. And you don't need a new consumer panel, electrician can use a sub-panel.

[@kjm-ch7jc]

Sounds ok if you are not in a hurry, low charge rate less battery stress.

[@maxflight777]

exactly

[@AngelFix]

Thank you for your efforts in making these videos, you are helping us a lot. I have owned Zoe 22 kw for 2 months. I only have one question for you. I travel about 20 km a day. I charge it 100% with granny cable and then drive until the battery drops to 50-60% and charge it to 100% for the whole evening. Is it better this way or to drive it to about 20-30% and charge it overnight to what percentage it charges. Which of the two is better for the battery? Greetings from Bulgaria! :)

[@NicolasRaimo]

There’s a video about charging your car to 100% on my channel kzbin.info/www/bejne/oWepe6SPnNKimas

[@paulrichards1061]

Couple of errors spotted... Octopus Go is for 4 hours not 5 hours per night from 12.30am to 4.30am. Octopus pay a SolarPV Export Tariff of 5.5p/KWh

[@NicolasRaimo]

Go faster can be 5 hours at 5.5p go is for 4 hours at 5p data correct. Export deal demands on energy company some pay nothing but your correct octopus pay 5.5p

[@NicolasRaimo]

Video on go faster on the top Right of this video or search for it on my channel they also do a 3 hour window for 4.5p

[@tonylaw7659]

what about connecting to the 30 amp ( blue) socket. Is there a connecter to use the 3 pin cable supplied with a EV ?

[@NicolasRaimo]

32amp blue commando we discussed that....

[@nickieredshaw7835]

Another great video thanks

[@blackrocket2000]

Useful advice. In practice I never charge continuously at home for more than 8 hours. My car is scheduled from Midnight to 8:00am, but will only “top up” overnight typically 10-15kWh max. I have a Metal 13A socket, with RCD integral in socket. Plug or socket never feels warm. However I do have timber garage, a long way from the house. I would invest in 7kWHome Charger if I could get “moblie signal” for Smart Charging, and therefore save money.

[@NicolasRaimo]

Hi Andrew see my reviews of ev chargers some allow cat5 connection and some have cat5 with a RADIO hub to transmit the signal to the charge point! Also remember RCD won't trip if the car leaks DC which is common at times.. and sockets need to be tested in other manners also if your on PME system your need PEN fault or earth spike

[@ConnectCreativeDesign]

This is useful information until you find out your house is on a looped supply, making a fast charger install troublesome. I use a granny charger via a smart plug for 4hrs a night which is more than adequate. Plug only gets mildly warm.

[@NicolasRaimo]

DNO will unloop you for free and some DNO allow you to have a fast charger on looped supply if it has a dynamique load CT Clamp, your also able to install most these safety devices to 3 pin and should do for safety

[@ConnectCreativeDesign]

@@NicolasRaimo Thank you, I wasn't aware there's a possibility of using a charger on a looped supply at all. Even if the change from looped to normal was free, I'm not too keen on digging up my + neighbours driveway!

[@NicolasRaimo]

@@ConnectCreativeDesign won't be you digging it be your local DNO

[@jacko2815]

Any ides why the socket would crack when charging the car? Cables for socket all fine

[@jondonnelly3]

Fuse in the plug gets above 100oC for hours and heats the socket behind it. Yes it can get that hot and not blow. Think of like a mini heater with very localised heat. Put a 16amp Euro Schuko in. Cheap fix.

[@Splitscreen83]

​@@jondonnelly3Link please?

[@paulward5701]

Key cost missed out here, most people with EVs are also running solar, and this type of kit plus the charge units having a DC component need ideally a new type of trip, RCDs wont cut it. So by the time youve replaced your house main board, and put the charge unit in you e basically negated the whole point of the EV supposedly being cjeap to run in the first place. Best case youre lookong at about £2,000 from what im told. That 13 amp pkug seems fine now IMO.

[@NicolasRaimo]

What are you on about, EV charger is £900 installed works with solar and comes with everything needed

[@paulward5701]

@@NicolasRaimo only if it's not installed up to code and hooked up to an RCBO ... RCDs can't detect DC faults, your car can push DC to your house and blind a trip (it's actually one of the issues they talked about in this video). That's why you need to replace your main box in your house too in order to do this properly and that costs about as much as getting the charger installed.

[@paulward5701]

Most houses don't have upgraded car number units. I've gone through all this recently. Yes you can get a charger installed for £900 "assuming the best case" but the reality is there's always additional costs for some reason or another as you quite rightly pointed out, not having RCBOs on the DC kit can cause any RCDs to fail. For "decent" RCBOs you're talking £30 a pop, just for the breaker.

[@hotrex7779]

So does this pen fault protection. Work before or after some one is getting an electric shock ? As my understanding of the regs it is to prevent electric shock

[@NicolasRaimo]

Depends on the system some systems work similar to an RCD and trip when they detect the greater mass of earth, others can show fault and just not allow charging

[@hotrex7779]

@@NicolasRaimo At present I am not aware of any system that detect the loss of the pen conductor on a single phase supply. That do not have a earth Reference conductor Avalable. Ie an earth rod to give an independent. Value to measure against The zappi patent showed a rcd type sense coil to detect a flow of current to earth. But this workes only after the car has been touched and the person is getting a shock . When it then disconnects the earth conection to the car as well as the live and neutral ... it seems to me that the big issue is the fact that we connect the car shell to the house earthing system. Is it time that the motor industry should look at there chargers and why we need this earth conection ... why can’t it be earth free . Double insulated ?

[@NicolasRaimo]

Correct some use a earth reference electrode, some act like an RcD waiting for you to touch the car then trip and others use a combination of this and other techniques. Long as the disconnection is fast enough the risk of harm and risk is lowered. Regarding redesigning the entire motor industry you need to understand a few things. Cars have a 12v battery the negative is always connected to the body work of the car. Cars are protected in theory by being insulated with paint but for the same reason double insulation wouldn’t work and reason a shock can happen is people can damage there car in a crash or accident and unlike a damaged electric device they tape it up or have it painted and carry on,m. Also mechanics working on car could do a repair and remove any protection by mistake or sometimes on purpose like I’ve seen them remove heat shields as customer is complaining is banging.

[@jam99]

@@NicolasRaimo Paint = some level of insulation. Tape = some level of insulation. Rust = some level of insulation. Crash is unlikely to happen whilst charging. Yes, it can expose bare metal for a period. Professional mechanic is unlikely to be fixing bodywork while charging without PEN protection but could be. Most home charging will happen at ground level. Local protective earth is very likely connected to water and/or gas pipes in ground. So, with a PEN fault, what is voltage likely to be on the car body relative to what the person is standing on? Person is likely to be wearing shoes; added resistance. Likely shock current is what? Sure, at worst death, but similar is the result of ice dropping from an aeroplane slicing through your body. Most ground substrates are more than bone dry and it seems to me that one may be just as likely to get a shock from a white appliance inside the house when a PEN fault happens, particularly with wet hands on a washing machine. Most dangerous, I would hazard, would be outside water taps and those with bare or wet feet. How many injuries/fatalities from an EV charging PEN fault have their been? How many shocks? I would call it a freak accident and certainly massively less dangerous than driving a car which we seem to have no reservations about. Why? Because the motor industry is a huge part of our economy. It is not profitable to be safe and so the risk is downplayed and never spoken of. Please do show me figures if you have them. It seems to me that modern safety concerns with regard to risk is hugely biased towards improbability (insanity) because of those who can profit from selling and installing safety devices and every company and government consultant having the understandable desire to minimise the chances of getting successfully sued. Realistic safety concerns are therefore very hard to discern. Some people actually get out of bed in the morning; such behaviour is extremely dangerous. In all likelihood, a shock resulting from a PEN fault is going to come from the charging port flap when someone plugs in or unplugs their vehicle or maybe from a door handle. How about a £10 anti-static grounding strap anyone? Oh, no - no exhaust pipe to clamp it to an EV. As I have said many times, it should be the DNO's responsibility to install PEN detection in all homes with an electricity supply (along with a grid isolation switch). It really is basic stuff if we are expected to take safety regulations seriously and it should have happened way above smart meters in priority.

[@omarbenbouteldja8097]

Hi 👋 guys, what's CT clamp please

[@NicolasRaimo]

Current transformer. It measure electric passing threw it.

[@mars6394]

I’m looking at getting a power wall box installed for my ev car looking at the pod point brand have you done a review on this type of charger brand or could recommend something better or alike thanks

[@NicolasRaimo]

Check out my playlist of chargers reviews I’ve not done Pod-Point yet however there is nothing special or feature rich on them

[@robertsmith7667]

Is it safe to run a cable from an inside socket to my car outside

[@NicolasRaimo]

A plug socket or a dedicated EV charger?

[@SirHackaL0t.]

There are builders who are putting in 3 pin sockets for EV charging. Most frustrating. Try the new houses right next to the Maidstone Tesla chargers.

[@NicolasRaimo]

If it doesn’t compile to regs for example have all the safety we mentioned in video it doesn’t qualify under the planning

[@DJChipsandGarlic]

i want an elecetric car but its pretty impossible to charge at home. only way i can do it is with charging on a granny charger at work for free or super markets etc. is this viable? cheers, its likely i will only be using the car local and some camping trips maybe within 50 miles.

[@NicolasRaimo]

It’s viable to use only public chargers see comment above who does just that there’s also a blog with Els electric dream on my channel

[@geraldfast3d]

All chargers have their place. Including Granny cables. Very useful.

[@robsmith1a]

Great video. I have a 7kw charger at home (but no EV at present). I did find the granny cable useful for occasional charging at relatives and also at home when my Chargemaster unit wouldn't talk to my Zoe (frequently happened and I'm on my third charge unit now). My patio heater is 10.5 A, hopefully my wiring is all good.

[@NicolasRaimo]

Your patio heater will be on its own circuit, and also won't be running for the hours an electric car may be on charge for. Also some 13 amp sockets will be on a ring main with other sockets as well!

[@pauldowninguk]

Wiring a two gang socket with a single 2.5mm T&E is the most dangerous thing in this video!!! LOL....

[@ieatlotsoftoast]

Remember if you've got a Citroën Ami or smart fortwo and only do 20 miles a week you will need a special ev charger installed and not a 3 pin plug.

[@finchyfun1]

What do you think of this product BG Masterplug EVH132S1SPA Electric Vehicle Charger 2.3kW Electric Car Charging Would love to know your thoughts

[@NicolasRaimo]

Better than a standard 3 pin plug as it’s been tested for this application still missing PEN fault which would need to be installed with this plug under wiring regs so time you done that you may as well fit an EV charger

[@trevorshields7347]

I guess it all depends on your daily mileage.

[@NicolasRaimo]

The safety aspects don’t

[@kenrhos]

It seems you won't get a 7kw charger installed unless you have off road parking. Unfortunately, not everyone has a drive. Some live in terraces where they have no option but to park outside their homes, on public roads.

[@NicolasRaimo]

That’s not true, you could only get a grant if you had a driveway but there’s not grants

[@jondonnelly3]

A socket should be fed on a 20amp ring. So 10amp continuous should be OK. The plug though... That's a problem, the 13amp fuse is going to get very hot and the plug could melt or the socket will crack. It might be an idea to replace the UK socket with the Euro Schuko 16amp one which has no fuse and rated 3amps more. Maybe of these chargers have also that plug.

[@Splitscreen83]

Sounds very much like an advert for £1200 EV chargers.

[@NicolasRaimo]

But I don’t sell or fit EV chargers no one in video does

[@wobby1516]

It seem that your saying that a granny cable supplied buy the manufacturer isn’t safe ? Your say theirs no export payment anymore the government has stopped that. However you haven’t pointed out that some suppliers will pay for exported power, OctopusEnergy for one.

[@NicolasRaimo]

If your socket has all the protection of an EV charger and your charging for short periods and there a newest install there around the same safety still less due to the connection not being as solid and safe as an EV connection. It’s worth nothing by time you fitted all these extra safety devices your at price of an EV charger including them! Octopus pay export at 5.5p however at the price your much better using it!

[@wobby1516]

@@NicolasRaimo I’ve never used my granny! to charge our Nero and I agree ones much better with a dedicated 7 kw charge point but I feel one shouldn’t be too alarmist about using a granny if needed, on holiday for example. Whilst of course it’s better to use the power generated by ones solar panels, In summer my system can produce up to 40 kwh’s in a day and I can’t always use it all so 5p paid by OctopusEnergy is not to be sneezed at.

[@cjmillsnun]

@@wobby1516 I think the point is you shouldn't be using a Granny for everyday charging. Renault label theirs (a very expensive option) as for occasional use. Using whilst on holiday to get you a few miles extra is fine (or as I do, using it when I visit my mum and dad - Their house was rewired 2 years ago so I know their electrics are top notch) As an everyday charger it isn't a good idea.

[@Ej-en2lz]

Essentially - you’ve made me want a 32 amp, self installed for my Tesla

[@mondotv4216]

Well the granny chargers have the same ground fault detection as the 7kW EVSEs so they won't connect either if there is no ground present.

[@NicolasRaimo]

They don’t have PEN fault

[@meatstackers]

wow my plug socket temperature increased by 10C and my home caught fire. what can i do ?

[@edwardzhou6972]

Be careful! You need to change the plug big size(A) and maybe wire too!

[@oliver90owner]

I’ve not the time to scan through over 350 postings, but has the efficiency been addressed? ‘Granny’ chargers may be only 70% efficient at charging the vehicle while a 7kW charger is likely to be around, or over, 90% efficient. Losses will include that illustrated warming (in the socket and plug) and also the charger will get warm, but the largest loss will be that of running the car electronics during that extended charging period. Mine, I think, consumes over 200W of everything incoming. Throwing away 20% of my electricity is not favourite - and won’t take too long to chew a hole in the extra initial cost of a dumb 7kW charger, particularly if charging during the daytime while using the plugged-in charger. I would restrict that loss to ‘free’ energy, generated by solar, whenever possible. Second point is that solar energy can be exported (opposite to that stated on 😅the video) to the grid. No new FIT payments these days, but payment for exported power is available.

[@MrTesla219]

Why do you need to why do you need an outlet sucker? If you have a cleaner that has two buttons. One is four leaving it. Straight one is for gaining it down to relax and sit down and stage four. I have a plug and then I have a USB.

[@johnburns4017]

13A sockets were designed for short use pluggable portable appliances. Not high current appliance run for hours on end. In theory a 3 kW immersion heater can run off a ring circuit. A 3kW immersion heater (less than 13A) is always on its own circuit, with its own mcb/rcbo with a permanently connected supply.

[@andrewdavidson7951]

No, a 3 kW immersion heater is 16 amp, but Yes, it has its own circuit and not a plug.]

[@johnburns4017]

@@andrewdavidson7951 I am at *250 volt* in my house, which gives me 13.54 A for 3kW. Too big a current draw to be off a 13A FCU. That is if the 3kW immersion was designed for 240v and 13A, which most are, which gives a resistance of 18.46. The _fixed resistance_ of an immersion determines the amps drawn. Amps drawn rises and lowers to the voltage with a fixed resistance. The higher the voltage the higher the amps drawn. Most are taught the higher the volts the lower the amps, that can be the case but not always. 16A? Way out. To get 16A the voltage would need to be 296.64. So, to be sure, always have an immersion off a 16A supply, or off a final ring circuit using a 16A mcb and 20A switch, which is legal.

[@thomaspeacock8990]

My other half is running a Zoe 22kw and since we have had it we have spent £0 topping it up all the top ups have been done on a pod point charger at Tesco for free 👍🏻

[@NicolasRaimo]

My sister is the same

[@RWBHere]

@@NicolasRaimo We'll be doing the same with our Zoe, and only using a (good quality) granny cable for emergencies.

[@Ej-en2lz]

I e used. Cheap metre extension cable for 18 months…. Torrential rain and 41 degrees heat… never one had any issue

[@frauditorsubslickboots]

Same here - no issues whatsoever.

[@bernardcharlesworth9860]

I think if you are going to use a granny charger make sure it's a British made mk then you know it's been made to British standard .I please correct me if I am wrong but doesn't a granny charger have a F type DC trip built in.

[@NicolasRaimo]

I’ve seen 1 with DC leakage but not it’s by no means standard

[@jimmaxwell2259]

We have two different electric cars, one fully electric and one a PHEV, which take very different chargers. I use the 'granny' charger on the PHEV around mid day, so that i make full use of the 11A generated by my solar panels. If i charged at a higher rate, it would cost me more. The PHEV is only an 11kW battery, so charges up in about 4-5 hours if fully depleted. However, at no time was i told, that this 3-pin charger was for emergency use only. I have a dedicated single socket, straight from the CU (only Type A RCD protection). I always assumed this was 100% safe.....now you have me wondering!!! I've used my charging cable almost every day for 7 years now and i'm a bit appalled if the info given at point of sale has been misleading. I thought it was safe to use.

[@NicolasRaimo]

Safety is all about calculating and reducing risk, is driving without a seat belt meaning your going to have a car crash NO, but if the scenario had the right conditions then having a seat belt is important

[@jimmaxwell2259]

@@NicolasRaimo Exactly, so either the granny charger is safe to use or its not. If not, then the manufacturers should not be allowed to put these chargers into cars. You cannot have a situation where it is safe to use once in an emergency, but not safe to use 100 times. So, im now looking at a second instal at a grand a pop, plus if i change my car to a Tesla in a couple of years time, i'd be looking at even more for a third instal. Thanks for making me aware of this safety issue.

[@NicolasRaimo]

@@jimmaxwell2259 oem would argue there not responsible for what you plug into

[@jimmaxwell2259]

@@NicolasRaimo And I would argue their 'Duty of care' extends to this. At the very least, a disclaimer at point of sale that the 'granny cable' must not be used on a long term basis. Of course, they didn't want to do anything that would put people off buying them.

[@NicolasRaimo]

@@jimmaxwell2259 they do now

[@bamber119]

There are Ev standard plugs you can buy,if you’re running a non standard EV 3 pin then you’re asking for trouble. I’m away to fit a masterplug outdoor socket tomorrow.

[@4wheelsgood]

What about people who rent and could land £5-600 into a charger but would then have to pay an additional £150 to have it removed when they leave?

[@mikeselectricstuff]

That would be where a good plan would be to install a 32A commando socket, an plug the charger into that, so you can take it with you. (And £150 to remove a charger is taking the piss)

[@gazzaman28]

If your landlord was savvy he'd buy it off you when you left and make it a feature of the property for the next tennents.

[@jam99]

@@mikeselectricstuff Who will pay and arrange for the consumer unit, DNO uprating, PEN fault detection and installation of the 32A commando socket? Most landlords, lol?

[@geraldfast3d]

Ah.. But when out and about I like the convenience of 22 kw and 50 KW rapids for my Zoe ze50.. And the granny is great when visiting the in laws.. for a top up. Wonder what home charging will be like 10 years from now.. Banned perhaps!.. Houses with boxes on the walls may look so old fashioned then.. Thanks for the video.. Exciting times.. 😀👍

[@NicolasRaimo]

Charging by the granny cable is all about risk, the risk of danger to you is greater with charging by 3 pin plug if it’s just charging at in laws very in frequent I get fully why you’d not get a charger fitted but as we move to 2030 ban it makes more sense for them to have one fitted

[@geraldfast3d]

Many of us don’t have the property types suitable for home chargers, so we get along as best we can. As to risk, you are correct. Mmmm ..risk.. best not drive at all .. very risky! Thanks again, and take care..

[@mikek6049]

I guess there is a reason the 3 pin cables are called by many as granny chargers.... they do a job if you are visiting friends or family and you need a 1 off charge to get you on your way, but are not really designed to use day in day out for long term charges.

[@NicolasRaimo]

Spot on charging at your grannys

[@alancarlyon340]

Bollocks, I have used my Granny cable on my MG EV for 3 years now! This blog above is just another firm wanting your dosh!

[@NicolasRaimo]

I wore a seat belt for years never had a crash!

[@cityblue0202]

I got quoted £2500 for an ev charger so I will be using a 3 pin plug

[@NicolasRaimo]

Assume you have lots of groundwork to do?

[@jam99]

@@NicolasRaimo If no more room in consumer unit, this could be the cost of a new or separate consumer unit, type B RCD fitting, surge protector, PEN fault detection or an install with a 'nicer' charger with the bells and whistles e.g. Zappi. Or complications associated with rejigging an existing consumer unit to bring up to current regs. I was quoted £2k and £1.5k (the latter by an electrician, after meeting, I would not trust) for Zappi install on it's own separate consumer unit (i.e. electrician would not have had to touch any existing wiring other than to spot obvious danger) and a 5m run of outside cable. No groundwork and one hole in the wall for the SWA cable. This would be after I arranged the DNO to uprate their fuse and wiring, which is not free for many areas.

[@laurenf4407]

Only using mine until I get my charger next week then it’s literally for extreme emergencies only

[@foxylady1048]

Ok, so can you explain to me and the folks who have granny cable for electric cars why they shouldn’t use them. Is it because you want there money, and letting them charge over night on cheap rate takes away your business. Come on be truthful with us

[@NicolasRaimo]

Non of the people featured in the video sell chargers. It’s because of the safety aspects listed in the video and the electric code book it’s simply about what level of risk you have for you and your family some people care about risk some clearly don’t

[@foxylady1048]

So why do the companies have them with the sale of the cars if they are not safe. I have used mine for years and have never had any problems with over heating. I understand it is not a good thing to use these, but living in a second story flat, with nowhere else to charge from it is my only way to go. The council has no interest in running a cable to the garage, so between 5p per kWh and 30p kWh. It makes sense for me as a retired person to go EV and help clean up the planet, or go back to spending a fortune on petroleum and help to stink up our world.

[@NicolasRaimo]

@@foxylady1048 If your charging by granny charger be aware of the risks, if you can only use one for charging install the safety devices that dedicated chargers have and think of upgrading to an interlocking socket to get rid of the extra risk 3 pin charging has.

[@pjeaton58]

What if it`s your only choice - eg. you`re out of charge at a friend`s house and they don`t have a special charge socket ? Hot 13A fuse ? - bring back the good old 15A round pin radials, on an appropriate RCBO of course !

[@NicolasRaimo]

Why would you knowingly arrive at a friends with no charge?

[@pjeaton58]

@@NicolasRaimo Friend or any other place - Hypothetical question ! As for no charge, have you heard of traffic diversions, traffic congestion etc. Reality check ! Reality is a better sales pitch !

[@NicolasRaimo]

Would you siphon fuel out of a friends car if you arrived low on fuel?

[@pjeaton58]

@@NicolasRaimo If the friend gave permission - yes.

[@frauditorsubslickboots]

@@NicolasRaimo You certainly don't like people disagreeing with you - do you 'Nic' - I'd recommend a more engaging attitude if you want you channel to grow. I certainly won't be back - and I guess nor will a lot of these people in the comments. Think about it.

[@wonderingworld119]

We plug many DC chargers into our 240v sockets. Are you saying that none of these should be plugged in because they could potentially block our RCDs from working and we are all going to die a horrible death falling from the empire state building or flying through a window screen as a result? Typical examples include power tools, vacuum cleaners, laptops, mobile phones, bicycles, the list of dc chargers plugged into 240v sockets goes on and on and on. Most modern granny leads can now go as low as 6amps if people wish to leave them plugged in for very long periods. Are you going to come back with a claim that 6 amps is also unsafe for the wall socket?

[@voltagevillain7342]

Why are the chargers do expensive?

[@NicolasRaimo]

The tech and safety within in them isn’t cheap there’s chargers starting from about £300 to £800 then on top of that we have install cost

[@smiith7996]

What a waste of time. What we need to know is does the domestic wiring have to be altered to accept the charger?

[@frauditorsubslickboots]

Yes - you will need a new supply to cope with the increased current draw. You may also need a new consumer unit, and, potentially a new main fuse. These installations are NOT cheap.

[@colinphillipson4830]

Sadly the old kW and kWh incorrect terminologies. ☹️

[@NicolasRaimo]

Easy to verbally make mistakes even when you know the given subject when you do it non scripted and natural

[@efixx]

What’s an h between friends

[@colinphillipson4830]

@@NicolasRaimo The pre written example on the flip chart also states a 70kW battery.

[@ianmoss20102010]

so with the cost of installing a EV charger is around £1200 if you charge you car fully once a week with the price difference of £6.64 per full charge it will take 3.2 years in recoup the initial £1200 cost.

[@NicolasRaimo]

88kwh battery? Or you using wrong price for electric… cheapest installs below £1000 also and charger warranties tend to be least 5 years

[@johnbelloni7821]

Hi interesting post I’m considering a Hybrid and they state a maximum 3.6Kw charge so a 7kw unit is unnecessary and I won’t be going full electric. Is there any portable 3.6 chargers you could recommend ? and surly I’ve seen some 3.6kw 16amp chargers with built in safety features plus on say a 20amp RCBO circuit would these be an option thanks everyone

[@NicolasRaimo]

Hi John just fit a 7kw charger now it will future proof you for when you do get an electric car be that 5 years. The 7kw charger will only charge your hybrid at the 3.6kw rate but means your future proof for when things change. If you see my reviews on chargers to help find the best charger. All chargers made now are 7kw however do have switches to limit the rate to 3.6kw however you don’t need to limit that switch if you fit it for 7kw as the car will limit the rate it takes

[@matc1603]

There are lots of 3.5kw portable chargers to choose from. Best bet would be to get an interlocked commando socket and a 3.5kw portable. If you want to schedule your charging fit a WiFi switch in the consumer unit. No point getting a 7ke charger, the technology changes so quick it will be obsolete in a few years anyway.

[@marshmellow377]

13a socket vs purpose build charger = same circuitry, meaning the same issues that apply to the 13a charger apply to the wall chargers. The only benefit is its faster...

[@NicolasRaimo]

It’s better but still not true… example you can’t disconnect a dedicated socket under load

[@jonanders76]

No they dont have the same issues at all, watch the video again. its not rocket science. Theres a big risk using a 13A socket as opposed to a dedicated charger with integral safety devices designed for EV charging.

[@marshmellow377]

@@jonanders76 I get the risk, but when your 3 pin sockets are on a 32a dedicated ring main, and the car is the only thing charging at 7a (only a 9.2kwh battery) there isn’t much of a risk. All wiring is rated to 32A, and ring has been tested

[@jonanders76]

@@marshmellow377 Hey Phil, its a little bit more complicated than that. Thats why an electrician would tell you its not a wise thing to do. Lets say the cables on your ring final circuit (RFC) are rated at 27A clipped direct and the circuit is in a healthy state. It was never designed to have a large load at one point for a long duration, but lets skip that. The 13A socket was never designed to carry that load either, but lets skip that. One of the most dangerous things, apart from an o-pen fault on the DNO cables outside (skip that for the moment) is the DC leakage and the type of RCD protection for your socket and the rest of the house. If its an AC type RCD (and it will be if the board hasn't been changed in the last couple of years) then this can blind the RCD so it won't function. This means you will have no additional protection on your house sockets and most likely the car charger too and therefore no protection from electric shock either in the house or at the car. Now if, and it should be using a 13A socket with an EV charger, your earthing system is TT, then you also have no fault protection either, meaning the mcbs or fuses are pretty much redundant only working on over load. Then theres the possibility of a protective earth neutral fault outside your premises which could cause a large current to flow along your earth path back to the car and into the house and with no working RCDs, no o-pen protection, its like Russian roulette. The odds are going against you, look how the infra structure in this country is on its knees and collapsing. Theres more to this than just having a normal healthy ring final circuit, hence why theres a whole section in BS7671 and numerous Guidance Notes for EV charging. Hope that helps

[@robberesford4741]

That's completely misleading as the temperature is barely hitting 35C. It just looks scary because in this display mode, "white" is simply showing the maximum temperature recorded and where. Only someone versed in FLIR would know this but everybody else would think "white" probably means white hot (it doesn't in this context). 35C is nothing and well within the margin of a 13 amp socket/plug. At this temperature, there is absolutely nothing to worry about. Would love to know what ambient temperature was because I doubt it is little different. If you put your hand on this plug, you'd be hard pressed to tell the difference but this is what FLIR is for; it will pick up the slightest differences in temperature, auto-ranging to show the lowest to the highest. If the plug was too hot to touch (60C+), that's when you need to be concerned and the cause would most likely be a poor connection, easily fixed by replace the plug and/or socket. Completely misleading!

[@NicolasRaimo]

Hi Rob for context; This was a BRAND new fitted socket with a brand new 3 pin charging lead fitted to a new backbox, this was filmed in the winter in the cold efixx studio with the ambient temperature about 6c. The car was on charge maybe 2 hours before filming. Now apply an older house socket used regular in the middle of summer for 12-15 hours of charging.

[@robberesford4741]

Nevertheless, 35C is far from an example of overheating. If you tested this after 15 hours, it would still show the same temperature as temperature has a finite limit and does not increase indefinitely as time passes. Again, FLIR in the wrong hands frequently leads to false conclusions. In the middle of June on a clear blue day, Try pointing FLIR vertically to a clear blue sky (not the sun). The result may surprise you given temperature is probably in excess of 25C. Can you explain why?

[@peterszczesiak6025]

Because of the price of electricity skyrocketing we might be back to the 3 pin socket being cheaper in the long run? Maybe an update would be good?

[@NicolasRaimo]

With the price of electricity skyrocketing makes EVEN more sense to charge off peak, video on the new rates THIS Saturday so ensure you've clicked the BELL next to the subscribe button not to miss it..... Plus 3 pin socket still missing all the safety devices in this video

[@khbg12006]

A lot of companys now will not offer off peak

[@echo71515]

5.5p/kWh? Lol they were the days. My tariff is 44p/kWh now.

[@NicolasRaimo]

Offpeak rate now 10p

[@doma5262]

Loooool my man loves staring into the camera when his buddy's are talking. Weird lol

[@xiropigado]

How negative, im considering getting an EV and am looking to charge at home via a 13amp when i am at home. If someone visits with an EV they really should make sure they are charged b4 arriving.

[@maxflight777]

In the words of Mandy Rice Davies; *“Well he would say that, wouldn’t he “* The video is partly bollox ! For most Tesla (efficient miles per KWh) owners, perhaps 85%, a 13A facility will suit their needs. (The car can limit to 10A, it’s certified and safe) In the video the electricians who make a living installing Chargers … advise that a 13A socket is insufficient. Imagine my surprise.

[@NicolasRaimo]

firstly am not an electrian, 2ndly the 2 people in the videos are from efixx which is an educational channel NON of them fit charger or sell them, so bollox back to you

[@maxflight777]

@@NicolasRaimo They are all part of the same Con ! I’ve owned Tesla’s for 3 years, covering 90K km across 2 cars. For the vast majority of EV users (unless you are an Uber driver) you can charge at 13A.) *don’t buy a charger* So many replies here saying this !

[@NicolasRaimo]

@@maxflight777 have you had a car crash in that time? No but you still wear a seat belt

[@Soulboy63]

I limit it to 9amps on my Tesla , until i decide which tarrif , charger i will use

[@gordonroutledge5475]

Useful information - why wouldn’t you just go for the proper EV charger so you can charger at a faster rate.

[@lindasims7130]

lock down. I hd an appointment cancelled and all through the lockdown I have used a pucker EV charging cable with a 3 pin socket. I also have solar panels. My BMW i3 has 3 settings maximum (2.4Kw) on my house circuit{ Reduced 1.7kw and low(1.4kw). I am retired and can adjust according to how much electricity it will draw on a 13 amp fused plug. I have had no problems. I have been using less than a bar electric fire!

[@lindasims7130]

2 bar electric fire

[@EP-bb1rm]

Why does everyone need to charge at a faster rate? 4 hours Octopus GO, call it 8kWh, 24 miles a charge, 8760 miles a year...

[@imho7250]

Not many can afford to install an EV charger at their house since they cost about $11,000 plus installation. Most would be better off using the charger which is built into the car, and just installing something that feeds that charger with up to its maximum current at the proper voltage, such as one of the many EVSE designed for home use. But there is a single phase 208-240v 25KW charger you can install at at home made by Bosch.

[@efixx]

@@EP-bb1rm it’s pretty useful when you get home late nearly empty and need to leave early in the morning.