5 Reasons the Spirit is not a 3rd Person (Genesis 1.2) I Easy Apologetics - Sean & Emily Jones

[@trumpershaveblinderson7470]

Wherefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus, and love unto all the saints, Cease not to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers; That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him. (Ephesians 1:15-17) Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God. (John 20:17)

[@inventionsfree6004]

THE HOLY SPIRIT is a PERSON The Holy Spirit has a Mind Romans 8 27 The Holy Spirit knows the depths of God Corinthians 2 10 11 The Holy Spirit can love Matthew 4 1 The Holy Spirit loves Romans 15 30 The Holy Spirit creates Job 33 4 The Holy Spirit is called Lord in Corinthians 3 17 The Holy Spirit speaks Revelation 2 29 The Holy Spirit directs John 16 13 The Holy Spirit hears John 16 13 The Holy Spirit is the comforter John 16 14 The Holy Spirit orders Acts 11 12 The Holy Spirit forbids Acts 16 6,7 The Holy Spirit testifies to Romans 8 16 The Holy Spirit prophesies First Peter 1 11 First Timothy 4 1,2 The Holy Spirit intercedes for humanity Romans 8 26 The Holy Spirit gives gifts to First Corinthians 12 4 to 7 The Holy Spirit took pity on Ephesians 4 30 The Holy Spirit teaches Luke 12 12 The Holy Spirit invites man to the Kingdom of Heaven Revelation 22 17 the Holy Spirit can be blasphemed Matthew 12 31 The Holy Spirit can be troubled Isaiah 63 10 people can lie to the Holy Spirit of 5 3 The Holy Spirit is called God Acts 5 4 people can Experience the Holy Spirit Acts 5 9 The Holy Spirit can be hurt by the Jews 10 29 The Holy Spirit decides who can be appointed for God's work Acts 13 2 The Holy Spirit has a will First Corinthians 12 11 The Holy Spirit sends God's workers Acts 13 14 The Holy Spirit makes decisions Acts 18 28 The Holy Spirit witnesses Acts 20 23 The Holy Spirit appoints overseers Acts 20 28 The Holy Spirit sanctifies Romans 15 16 The Holy Spirit in communion with man Second Corinthians 13 14 one can speak against the Holy Spirit Matthew 20 32 The Holy Spirit assures John 16 18 The Holy Spirit teaches Nehemiah 9:20 The Holy Spirit argues Genesis 6 3 The Holy Spirit seals Ephesians 4:13 The Holy Spirit is given to those who seek Him Luke 11 13

[@androzdov]

Because it is God the Father doing all of it by and through His Spirit - Himself . , Just simple analogy, if someone grieved my spirit( made me said) did they grieved me or some separated person differently than me? Of course if someone grieved my spirit they grieved me personally. And that is why in the Bible it said if you lie or blaspheme against HS it is against God the Father Himself and Jesus said Father is greater than me. There is a heavenly order.

[@leenieledejo6849]

Did you copy and paste this without reading it?? I only got to your first verse: Matthew 4:1. Please read it again.

[@inventionsfree6004]

@@leenieledejo6849 you can blaspheme the Holy Spirit, which means that He has a personality because you cannot blaspheme impersonal energy Read again .. carefully

[@leenieledejo6849]

@@inventionsfree6004 It's the SPIRIT OF GOD! In some verses in Paul's epistles, it's referred to as "the Spirit of Christ" (probably because it's the same Spirit that indwelt Christ). Obviously Jesus is not here physically and neither does he indwell people physically (2 Corinthians 13:5) but through his SPIRIT (John 14:16-17) and therefore yes, you can blaspheme the Holy Spirit. It doesn't mean that the Holy Spirit is a separate "person". Far from it!

[@leenieledejo6849]

@@inventionsfree6004 I notice that you deflect too from my point about Matthew 4:1!!!

[@princessadella95]

The Holy Spirit is the mind and power of God it was never a separate person but belonging to the Father.

[@neweyz3396]

The Spirit of God is God’s POWER that He Uses to Send Forth what He wills to be Done for Him , it’s His Holy Spirit ! Amen ! Thanks for bringing this to the table Sean & Emily Great stuff loved it all Blessings bother & sister ! ❤😊

[@HyperScepterOfficial]

And whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.

[@androzdov]

This means to speak against the Father Himself, because Everything Comes from Him !!!!

[@aaronsanchez3141]

We need more of this in churches. Less teaching and more discussion

[@ViralChristianity]

Yeah! There will be more of this in churches because this is the time the spirit of antichrist is taking over the Church.

[@bardowesselius4121]

What about proclaiming the truth boldly without endless discussion or debates? Like Jesus and the apostles did. People who are convinced by their position are not going to accept otherwise. Just plants the seeds, God will use others to water them.

[@ViralChristianity]

@@bardowesselius4121 You need more of the spirit of @ntichrist in churches? Why?!

[@bardowesselius4121]

@@ViralChristianity you are twisting my words. We are taught by the Spirit. And the Spirit teaches us not to engage in endless debates with people who already made up their minds. We need to get rid of the religious mindset. Like I said, just proclaim the truth and leave when they will not listen.

[@ViralChristianity]

@@bardowesselius4121 You are of the spirit of @ntichrist who denies that Jesus is God made flesh. Plain and simple.

[@mizzou7244]

God bless..keep speaking the truth in love.

[@ViralChristianity]

This is not truth. This "truth" is of the spirit of @ntichrist.

[@alexcampbell3032]

Keep taking those big juicy Boosters! ​@@ViralChristianity

[@mizzou7244]

@ViralChristianity so say you. Isn't it interesting in every one of Paul's epistles to the churches he starts with grace to you and peace from Father and the Lord Jesus Christ or a close variation of it. No mention of the holy spirit. We both know this God is holy and God is spirit. Holy Spirit is another name, not person, for God. 1 Timothy 2:5 says it all. You better be doubly sure before you start throwing around phrases like antichrist.

[@ViralChristianity]

@@mizzou7244 Exactly! Jesus is Yahweh and the Father is our God in the Shema. In some scriptures only the Holy spirit is mentioned, it doesn't mean there is no God the Father or the Lord Jesus.

[@ViralChristianity]

@@mizzou7244 Your argumentation against the Triune God of the Bible is hilarious.

[@juniormonteiro6323]

Thank you!

[@FOMC6780]

Here is what the Trinity is three personalities in one being to me that is schizophrenic? If you say God is three persons and they are co-equal but are separate in their roles therefore you have to say personalities.

[@Scott48-w9i]

Three distinct persons same divine nature

[@emchristian4793]

​@@Scott48-w9iStill = 3 people or 3 Gods

[@Scott48-w9i]

@@emchristian4793 three Gods

[@chabirajpersaud9647]

I love you people ,am just like you but I live in Guyana 🇬🇾 dominated by trinitarian churches,islam and Hinduism, Catholics and Jehovah s witness, always wanted a church of yours to be built here❤

[@trumpershaveblinderson7470]

Jehovah witnesses don't believe in the Trinity. But they don't believe in the lake of fire either.

[@craigyoung836]

Very good presentation. I believed in the Trinity a long time until recently. You guys have a lot of the Bible explained correctly. One God. Jesus the Messiah being the Son of God and not God the Son. Good job guys.

[@choicegospelnetwork]

THANKS GUYS , It's Soo Sad and painful to see millions Under this false Trinity and Oneness Delusion . But Scriptures must be fullfield 1 John 2:22..

[@c1arkj]

The holy spirit is man's way to define God's active power between God and our dimension.

[@rudya.hernandez7238]

This is what happens when one attempts to reinvent the wheel in every generation.

[@inventionsfree6004]

We know from the Gospel that you can blaspheme the Holy Spirit, which means that He has a personality because you cannot blaspheme impersonal energy THE HOLY SPIRIT is a PERSON The Holy Spirit has a Mind Romans 8 27 The Holy Spirit knows the depths of God Corinthians 2 10 11 The Holy Spirit can love Matthew 4 1 The Holy Spirit loves Romans 15 30 The Holy Spirit creates Job 33 4 The Holy Spirit is called Lord in Corinthians 3 17 The Holy Spirit speaks Revelation 2 29 The Holy Spirit directs John 16 13 The Holy Spirit hears John 16 13 The Holy Spirit is the comforter John 16 14 The Holy Spirit orders Acts 11 12 The Holy Spirit forbids Acts 16 6,7 The Holy Spirit testifies to Romans 8 16 The Holy Spirit prophesies First Peter 1 11 First Timothy 4 1,2 The Holy Spirit intercedes for humanity Romans 8 26 The Holy Spirit gives gifts to First Corinthians 12 4 to 7 The Holy Spirit took pity on Ephesians 4 30 The Holy Spirit teaches Luke 12 12 The Holy Spirit invites man to the Kingdom of Heaven Revelation 22 17 the Holy Spirit can be blasphemed Matthew 12 31 The Holy Spirit can be troubled Isaiah 63 10 people can lie to the Holy Spirit of 5 3 The Holy Spirit is called God Acts 5 4 people can Experience the Holy Spirit Acts 5 9 The Holy Spirit can be hurt by the Jews 10 29 The Holy Spirit decides who can be appointed for God's work Acts 13 2 The Holy Spirit has a will First Corinthians 12 11 The Holy Spirit sends God's workers Acts 13 14 The Holy Spirit makes decisions Acts 18 28 The Holy Spirit witnesses Acts 20 23 The Holy Spirit appoints overseers Acts 20 28 The Holy Spirit sanctifies Romans 15 16 The Holy Spirit in communion with man Second Corinthians 13 14 one can speak against the Holy Spirit Matthew 20 32 The Holy Spirit assures John 16 18 The Holy Spirit teaches Nehemiah 9:20 The Holy Spirit argues Genesis 6 3 The Holy Spirit seals Ephesians 4:13 The Holy Spirit is given to those who seek Him Luke 11 13

[@hondotheology]

try again, pagans

[@Watchmanonthewall77]

I don't get your comment🤔

[@dianaz4200]

Are a Muslim? a Roman Catholic? a Protestant? or who? 🤔 Do you understand what "pagan" word means? Those two speakers, though they are young in ages, they do understand the Holy Bible well, I myself, following the teaching of Yeshua The Messiah, since 1978, amazed with their ability. So, young man, please watch out you mouth. Especially, if you are so called "Christian" as I do. The Spirit of God is not arrogant, but love and humble. the Holy Spirit in the believers (of Messiah) to teach us Truth.✍️. God blesses us. 🕎

[@Watchmanonthewall77]

@@dianaz4200 I'm sorry, I'm having trouble reading your message. I know exactly what a pagan is. I'm just asking who you are calling a pagan? That's all.

[@dianaz4200]

@@Watchmanonthewall77 I think you should ask to Hondotheology. 😉

[@Scott48-w9i]

@@Watchmanonthewall77 Trinitarianism is often called pagan

[@byronumphress3805]

SO IMMANUEL JESUS CHRIST IS NOT SOMEONE EITHER, SITTING ON GODS RIGHT SIDE, ? JOHN 14:26, IMMANUEL JESUS CHRIST CAME IN FLESH AND MANY MISSED HE ! ✝️ WAS, 🌹IS, 🕊AND TO COME ! SHALOM

[@byronumphress3805]

THE HOLY SPIRT DESCENDED UPON HIM IN “ BODY” FORM, AS A DOVE ! SHALOM

[@byronumphress3805]

ISAIAH 46:9-10 SHALOM

[@Scott48-w9i]

@@byronumphress3805 not literally

[@KyrieEleisonMaranatha]

The Bible is quite clear the Holy Spirit is a person with multiple personal attributes. To deny that is to deny the plain reading of the text.

[@jimharmon2300]

You have a spirit . Is it a separate person from you ? The spirit of jealousy, is it a person ? The spirit of hate , is it a separate person ? Many spirits are in the world . These spirits change a person’s personality but that spirit is not a separate person .

[@jimharmon2300]

@@Scott48-w9i Spirit Jesus describes what a spirit is . John 3:8 (KJV) The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit. It is not something to be seen but like the wind it can be felt you can see the effects of it . Many spirits in the world. Spirit of jealousy. Spirit of hate . Spirit of love . Spirit of doubt. Spirit of faith .

[@jimharmon2300]

@@Scott48-w9i In thought In heart In walk In action In speech

[@KyrieEleisonMaranatha]

@@Scott48-w9i but I'm not God.

[@KyrieEleisonMaranatha]

@@jimharmon2300 technically yes my spirit is a person and that person receives a glorified spiritual body at the resurrection. Paul explains this all in 1 Corinthians 15:40-44.

[@leenieledejo6849]

Here's something: We know that Trinitarians call the Holy Spirit the "third person". Instead of "person", why don't they use "man"? We know why they don't. Because it would be ridiculous to call a SPIRIT a man! Well, it's equally ridiculous to call a spirit a PERSON!! [Unless you want to echo RC Sproul and insist that "person" actually means "persona" i.e mask or role. I mean, wow. He actually has a talk on KZbin where he says that. SATAN is the shape shifter, the "father of lies" - John 8:44 - and hypocrite (literally: to play a part, pretend) appearing sometimes as a scary monster figuratively speaking and other times *DISGUISING HIMSELF* as "an angel of light": 2 Corinthians 11:4]

[@ingus5552]

Philippians 2:6 (ESV) 6 who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, Philippians 2:6 (KJV) 6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

[@3RulesAndFaith]

I believe in God, the Father almighty, Creator of heaven and earth, and in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord, who was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary, suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died and was buried; he descended into hell; on the third day he rose again from the dead; he ascended into heaven, and is seated at the right hand of God the Father almighty; from there he will come to judge the living and the dead. I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy catholic Church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and life everlasting. Amen.

[@lutherbronner]

If you follow the reference in the Bible. Spirit of God is Holy Spirit . Written the scripture, empower, leading and guiding , the One give the believer the understanding of the scripture. In order to be born again you believe and ask in the Holy Spirit

[@jamessmallwood5906]

This is spot on, they failed to mention what came from Jesus mouth...John 20:17...and the truth shall be known.

[@qwerty-so6ml]

Genesis 1 is Lucifer and the fallen angels. They made man in their image. Man is an idol, a trap for angels. Only one Gospel: The Gospel of Reconciliation. Jesus Christ came into THEIR kingdom to reconcile fallen angels unto Himself. We are the fallen angels (ELOHIM) kept in DNA chains of darkness. If you do not confess being a fallen angel in Lucifer's kingdom, then you are an unbeliever. Unbeliever = those that claim to be made in the image of ELOHIM(gods). REPENT FALLEN ANGELS.

[@johnsey2625]

Come debate Sam Shamoun he is live every day 😊

[@Watchmanonthewall77]

I've watched Sam, I know he is super smart but I'm not sure he has the Spirit of Christ. He is full of pride and that is the sin if Satan. At least that is the fruit i see him bare. I hate saying that because i do admire his brilliance but he doesn't seem to do what he does with Love.😞

[@johnsey2625]

@@Watchmanonthewall77 No you are mistaking; Sam is spirit-filled. Would you say Jesus was loving when he called the Pharisees vile serpents or when he turned over the tables in the temples and whipped the merchants out of the temple?

[@Watchmanonthewall77]

Maybe, but Muslims are lost, not religious leaders who know better than to dishonor the house of God. The guy is full of pride. All it takes is a little discernment to see it. I'm sorry, personally i don't have anything against him. I just see what i see.

[@johnsey2625]

@@Watchmanonthewall77 actually faithful muslims are not that much different than pharisee. True muslims are antichrist denying Jesus is the son of God, which in fact dishonors God just as a majority of rabbinic jews do. Sam is a lion and zealous for the true God Yahweh. He is not always tough, he responds back to people the way they come at him; if aggressive and arrogant then he embarasses them; if humble and willing to learn then he responds accordingly. Ive seen it all too often, muslims and heretics will walk all over you if you are "nice person". Jesus was not such a "nice person". He told it how it is. he had a totally different deamenor with the groups he was dealing with ie. pharisess/antichrsits vs downcast repentant sinners.

[@Watchmanonthewall77]

@@johnsey2625 i see your point, may be i shouldn't say he doesn't have the mind or heart of Christ because im not the judge of that. But i still see pride. I have heard him make the statement, you think you are going to teach me about the bible". That is a statement of pride. Ever single one of us have flaws and blind spots in our beliefs about what the bible says. I have also seen him defend praying to the saints for Catholics. That is something the bible never gives us permission to do.

[@jimharmon2300]

Why is it so difficult? People get in the spirit of a game all the time . Sounds more as in thought , in feeling .

[@jimharmon2300]

Spirit Jesus describes what a spirit is . John 3:8 (KJV) The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit. It is not something to be seen but like the wind it can be felt you can see the effects of it .

[@MasterKeyMagic]

Why do you think you are better then the Ethiopian in Acts 8?

[@lutherbronner]

If you don’t believe in the 3 personalities of the God Head. You only have what you believe. 0,1,2,ur3 The natural man cannot understand the scriptures.

[@hopesandmemes]

If the natural man cannot understand the scriptures, the scriptures are not for the edification, faith, or belief of the natural man. I’d be careful walking that tight rope.

[@willcall9431]

Hypostatic Union.

[@c1arkj]

Ruach ha'kodesh. The holy spirit. Also the last letter of of the Hebrew word, ruach, is the Hebrew letter chet, which is a gutteral sound from the throat, and not a 'K' sound. Just something you could practice when saying the word which will make you sound more informed on the usage.

[@21stOneGod]

Thanks for feedback! Like we have said, we are still very new learners in the Greek and Hebrew! - Sean and Emily

[@c1arkj]

@@21stOneGod Love the channel. I've been in this debate since the early 2000s. we all start somewhere. But I do believe your position is sound.

[@imgage7317]

Talk to Sam Shamoun on live 😂

[@dianaz4200]

Sam Shomoun is very good Christian apologist in general, when talking to Muslims. But in Trinity Doctrine he is somehow like a brainwashed man - not using his brain well enough, talking without thinking and looking to the Holy Scriptures and The Church Story documents. 😉 God blesses us. 🕎

[@jimharmon2300]

So he can call your mother names .

[@Watchmanonthewall77]

This isn't the first time this has happened in my life, but i have pretty much changed my mind about the "Godhead". I was raised UPC and changed to Trinity becoming AG. But i have been listening to Dale Tuggy and though i still believe Jesus was the first created and all things are created through him and for him, i believe there are two. The Father and the son. So i disagree with you on the pre existence of Christ. I do agree that God is our heavenly Father and Jesus is his son the Messiah. Check out Isaiah 48:12-16. Then read chapter 49 and let me know how you guys deal with this scripture.

[@21stOneGod]

Thank you! May God bless in your truth seeking. He loves those who love his word and his truth. We will be discussing those scriptures in the future, but in the meantime, I have pulled a series Pastor J. Dan Gill taught on preexistence. He addresses many scriptures throughout this. If you would like to discuss this more as well, you can always email us at [e-mail] as well. Pastor Dan’s series part #1: kzbin.info/www/bejne/aonWdaKJlNGMhq8si=kzR28c0cNr4lLVO-

[@Watchmanonthewall77]

@@21stOneGod thank you

[@henryodera5726]

​@@Watchmanonthewall77Hi. With regards to Isaiah, you should note that he at times changes from speaker to speaker without alerting his audience.

[@henryodera5726]

​@@Watchmanonthewall77For example, let's take a look at Isaiah 5. From verse 1 to 2, the speaker is the friend of the well-beloved who owns a vineyard. This could be Isaiah or someone else. Anyway, in verse 3, the speaker shifts from that friend to the owner of the vineyard (YHVH). And this remains the case until verse 7, when the speaker once more shifts from YHVH to Isaiah.

[@henryodera5726]

​@@Watchmanonthewall77And again, when you go down to verse 9, it reads as if Isaiah is quoting YHVH's words in most translations. But then you'll notice that in most translations, punctuation marks make it seem as if Isaiah stops quoting YHVH in verse 10 and then starts speaking as himself again. But there's really nothing in the immediate text to signal that change, except for the quotation marks in most translations at the end of verse 10, until you get to verse 12 where Isaiah speaks of YHVH in the 3rd person. And then once you notice Isaiah speaking of YHVH in the third person in verse 12, immediately in the next verse (verse 13), Isaiah again seems to start quoting YHVH if the capitalized "My" in "My people" in the NASB is anything to go by. But then again in verse 16, Isaiah speaks of YHVH in the 3rd person.

[@kardiognostesministries8150]

As with the Father and Son being Persons, so too the Holy Spirit (Matthew 28:19).

[@bardowesselius4121]

That passage is not undisputed as some trinitarian formula added in some versions, absent in other early versions. It is way more simple. The Holy Spirit is what God is, His power, presence. His mindset. It is like wind, you don't see it but you can see its effects by things moving, making sound etc. Jesus became a source of that Spirit. That is why the Lord is the Spirit. And as coheirs with Jesus Christ we become a source of God's spirit as well, a fountain of living waters to bless others.

[@kardiognostesministries8150]

@@bardowesselius4121 Not one Greek manuscript reads another way.

[@trumpershaveblinderson7470]

Wherefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus, and love unto all the saints, Cease not to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers; That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him. (Ephesians 1:15-17) Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God. (John 20:17) For I am God, and not man; the Holy One in the midst of thee. (Hosea 11:9) God is not a man … neither the son of man. (Numbers 23:19) For he [God] is not a man. (1 Samuel 15:29) Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord. (Deuternomy 6:4)

[@kardiognostesministries8150]

@@trumpershaveblinderson7470 When the Bible affirms that God is not a man that took place before Jesus was incarnated.

[@Scott48-w9i]

@@kardiognostesministries8150 It does not say God is not a man it says he is a man who does not lie

[@simonskinner1450]

Yes Christianity needs a 21st century reconstruction as it divorced from its roots as described in the epistles, John and Paul called out the very false teaching that formed Christianity. The Spirit operates for God in this universe like the software of a computer, and God is an invisible identity outside the universe as the hardware sending the Spirit as God sees fit. Of course Jesus did not come down from heaven, Jesus was witness to his Father to suit Deuteronomy 18:18, and his Father witness to Jesus as the Messiah by performing miracles due to the Spirit of God inside him. I have a Ytube video 'John 3:13 Did Jesus come down from heaven? No. #28 Myths in so-called Christianity', that identifies the Spirit Jesus mentioned in John 3:5.

[@ViralChristianity]

Jesus is Yahweh God of Israel in Genesis 18, Exodus 24:9-11, Isaiah 48:16, Zechariah 2:8-11, Isaiah 6, etc. The spirit in you that denies that Jesus is God manifested in the flesh is @ntichrist.

[@ViralChristianity]

"21st century reconstruction" is synonymous with a great falling away and the spirit of antichrist.

[@simonskinner1450]

@@ViralChristianity that may be your opinion but that denies God in Deuteronomy 18:18, where God said he would raise a prophet from his people, and I say that Jesus is the Messiah or the Christ. I think that makes you Antichrist in denial not me. John's gospel is written to prove Jesus as the Messiah, not that he was the Creator, but that he impersonated his Father to reveal him to us.

[@ViralChristianity]

@@simonskinner1450 Noahide, How exactly does Deuteronomy 18:18 prove your doctrine of dem0ns?

[@ViralChristianity]

@@simonskinner1450 *Jesus is Yahweh God of Israel (John 1 and the rest of the Bible) who emptied himself of his glory of the only true God that he shared with the Father before the world was (John 17:3-5) and came in the form of a prophet like Moses, a man of war (Exodus 15:2-3), God's servant meek and lowly to become salvation (Yeshua Jesus) unto the ends of the earth.*

[@davidcrane6593]

So we see Two seperate persons (independent Persons that make up One Holy God)before creation(Jesus and The Father) john 17:-->5And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. And we see Jesus before HE had a body being sent by The Father and also being sent by the Holy Spirit.Isaiah 48:-->16Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me.

[@bardowesselius4121]

With that interpretation you take Jesus being foreknown and predestined as being literally there from before creation. But those passages mean nothing more than Jesus being foreknown and predestined. It works in all of those so called preexistence prooftexts.

[@davidcrane6593]

@@bardowesselius4121 it's backed in scripture... .before HE manifested HIMSELF in flesh His Name Is The Word of God-->..........Revelation 19:13 KJV - And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. And we see Jesus(The Word of God) with the Father BEFORE Jesus created the universe-->John 1:1¶In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2The same was in the beginning with God. 3All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. Look at Jesus (The Word) Go....Go God!! Go!

[@bardowesselius4121]

Jesus became the personification and embodiment of God's Word. That is all those texts say. Something only the Spirit can show us.

[@davidcrane6593]

@@bardowesselius4121 No... Two independent Spirits. Of One Holy God.. with different wills -->Luke 22:42 KJV - Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.

[@Scott48-w9i]

@@davidcrane6593 in the beginning of the gospel the Word was made flesh at baptism