5 things we hate about Shimano 105 Di2

[@grvl307]

1: the price. 2: the price 3: the price 4: the price 5: the price. It's just idiotic.

[@CoreQ]

Price is never products problem .

[@escamunicha4276]

the cassette limitation . you cant use 11-28, 11-30, 11-32

[@countspokeula539]

It'll get cheaper

[@MrBoggins1234]

Hopefully sales will reflect the absurd pricing here in the UK and they will revisit and or reveal the extent of import duties for goods coming from the Shimanos hub in the EU.

[@richardharrowell7779]

It seems like a totally suicidal decision to drop the cheap 105 groupsets. Chinese companies like Sensah have been improving, but there has not been the need to risk it when there was a very affordable and trustworthy 105 option available. Looks like Shimano has just opened the door to the new competitors and invited them in.

[@vinnyl.canuel6172]

And in other way open the door to Campy too. Right now the cheapest 11 speed groupset from a major brand (sram/Shimano/Campy) are not 105 R7000 mecanical but Campagnolo Centaur 11 speed ... if they update it (Chorus 12 speed are available in Rim brake and 12 speed too) they can take that space too

[@monty2078]

105 Lacks gear options no power meter , shifts cassette slowly. I have 2 Di2 Ultegra bikes and the bike I just built has Sram Rival etap, which shifts the cassette better and gives me the gear range I need (43/30 x 10/36). I can add a power meter and blips and to top it all off it was a whole bunch h cheaper

[@RicardoRocha-lg1xo]

Can’t believe Shimano has overlooked all of these concerns. It seems I’ll be stocking up on mechanical components to keep me riding without batteries for years to come

[@grahamelliott6041]

Will you ?

[@RicardoRocha-lg1xo]

I kinda did. I’ve got a set of brand new mechanical levers and a rear derailleur (1x set) stashed away. I’m running mechanical discs on both my bikes. We’ll see if I go back to rim brakes when it’s time to retire either of those bikes.

[@grahamelliott6041]

@@RicardoRocha-lg1xo good for you

[@michaelfox6800]

Rival AXS eTap for me. Karoo 2 compatibility. Power meter upgrade for $263. Better gear range. Also, no real battery concerns. The rear battery will die sooner than the front battery. If that happens (which it hasn’t), all you need to do is swap them out to get home.

[@moritzaufenanger2537]

Coming from.. 5 Years of eTap 11 Speed, the front Dies earlier than the rear for me. By quite a far shot actually. Does not really change the value of your point tho, Sram it is!

[@michaelfox6800]

@@moritzaufenanger2537 Hmm. I'm not familiar with eTap from that generation. It is Red? Maybe after 5 years, you just need a new battery? I use my RD ten time more than my FD. So far, I haven't even come close to the battery dying. I'm about 500 miles (800 km) in on the new bike, and I've recharged twice, and that was in preparation for long rides...

[@moritzaufenanger2537]

@@michaelfox6800 Yes, 11 speed etap only was available as Red. Nono, i have ~8 Batterys running in cycles. Ive had Force AXS too for a while, and the FD also always went red first too.

[@jackyharuhiko]

@@moritzaufenanger2537 how come…I charged my rear derailleur battery twice but never once for the front. Mine is Rival eTap AXS though.

[@simonRt]

@@michaelfox6800 front mech uses approximately 5 times more energy then rear (if I remember correctly), so it really depends on the individual usage. In the mountains you would use it once after the climb, and then on the bottom of next one. On the flats probably even less. Hilly terrain -I'm constantly shifting, can't really cover it on one or the other.

[@ptpns]

In an era where most of the Cycling Press is trying to praise the various Companies decisions, its great to see articles trying to simply spit out true facts on their face. Thumbs up, keep up the good work 👍

[@a1white]

Yup. You wouldn’t hear GCN saying all this.

[@jonathanellis1842]

I just hope that Campagnolo sees the market niche and keeps making group sets with mechanical and rim bake options, some of us old Luddites would appreciate that😀

[@RicardoRocha-lg1xo]

I hope so too

[@davidvrkoc5491]

Campagnolo's answer is: Chorus 12s

[@tesmith47]

Anything Campy will cost you a arm and your first born

[@randellgribben9772]

@@tesmith47 but you childern can ride it 20 years from now

[@Jack42Frost]

Sorry to say, Campagnolo hate their customers. I run all my bikes with campy, I expect no help from the firm Campagnolo

[@davekendall1338]

The price makes no sense. It's not inexpensive enough to create real separation between it and Ultegra, especially when you consider the upgrades you get with Ultegra (hood buttons, hyperglide, servowave).

[@Yannerson]

Sensah Empire Pro. Mechanical and rim brake. Nicely fills the gap now vacated by Shimano. Excellent VFM as well as quality.

[@alexandermanchev1616]

How about instead of 105, we give credit to Campagnolo ? The Campagnolo 2x11 Centaur is a wonderful groupset and in my humble opinion more than enough for most riders looking for training or recreational riding.Here in the Nethetlands you can find Campagnolo Centaur for around 500€, if you want the Campagnolo Chorus around 1000€.

[@markj.a351]

It's nice to see a bike marketing channel not talk about rim brakes like you're going to die if you use them. Maybe the logic of Shimano is that only top level riders would still pick the weight saving of rim brakes. Hence why they made Ultegra and DA with rim brake compatible shifters. Also, they do have to consider that frame makers simply aren't making rim brake frames anymore (for the most part). The only market will be the ever decreasing upgrade market of

[@markgorman9935]

I've been running rim brakes and mechanical shifting since I started riding, I'm getting on a bit. I won't be changing. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

[@harpoon2445]

1) the wireless design also did away with the cables through the handlebars, junction box A and junction box B is now also not needed. The wired derailleurs allow for a big internal battery that by the time you need to charge you already forgot when it was last charged.

[@davidvrkoc5491]

Because I want to have rim brakes, 12 speeds and mechanical shifting. I have not bought neither 105 nor Rival. I have Chorus.

[@marcelomx9351]

It’s impressive how the industry is pushing us to substitute our bikes: disc brakes, wider rims, more rigid frames, tubeless tires, electronic shifting… everything for you to spend more and more money… we don’t need all this crap to really enjoy the pleasure of riding a bike!

[@maxlloyd3740]

Yes, You are correct it is easy routing the Di2 cable down the downtube but what about the handlebars? Trying to find space for hydraulic hoses and Di2 cables through one piece carbon bars/stems sometimes is a challenge! Certainly the wireless set up from bars makes this a lot easier with custom builds!

[@pierrex3226]

Time to try sensah empire disc with juin tech brakes and hybrid pads. The price of 105 is just insulting, and the other concerns raised here are very valid too. Especially the RD being so exposed and expensive to replace.

[@jensenhealey907efi]

I have been using a older 10spd DI2 setup for a couple of years now and I have never had a problem with running low on battery power for the shifting. In fact the battery I have holds a charge for an amazingly long time.

[@ricardorusso1462]

5 things I hate about it: 1. Price 2. Price 3. Price 4. Price 5. Price

[@spartanbike2260]

shimano is hugely discounted after 1 year in the marketplace. at the oem level 105 bikes are cheaper than rival version. sram is noisy/clunky and the brakes have crap modulation. road.cc another bad editorial but this is par for course

[@yilmanbabilonia]

how many charges does the battery take?

[@savagepro9060]

I enjoy and praise your feelings for the adorable and endurable rim brakes!👊🤛👏

[@DangNguyen-xx3zi]

I'm riding a 105 rim brake setup. I'm happy to switch to disc once my bike reaches end of life, but you bet I'll be riding mechanical until they stop making those. No reason why my bike should be bricked just because the battery runs out or the electronics got a glitch. You want electronic groupset cause it's 'pro', be prepared to spend pro money and pray that you have pro tech support

[@dragonnetx]

I’ll stay with hassle free mechanical shifting.

[@333wheeler]

Think I will stick to my old school 8 speed bar end cable shifter system.. If it ainnt broke ..

[@savagepro9060]

The expected DEARTH of rim-brake parts will be satisfied by smart Chinese producers. Mark my word!

[@Sir-Prizse]

I am a Shimano person.... I've always ridden Shimano (except for my first bike with Campa Victory) and the new incredibly expensive groupsets make life difficult for me. Because I'll be honest, there's no reason for me to buy the new 105 Di2 R7150. I can only hope that a new Tiagra comes out that is a relabeled 105 R7000.

[@davidlenneberg4303]

This is some of the many reasons why I went over to Campagnolo which is brilliant l used to really like Shimano but they’re lost the plot what do they say Shimano wears out Campagnolo wears in.

[@richardparkin6119]

Pretty sure they say Shimano wears out and Campagnolo wears in. I like SRAM a lot but it doesn't have the longevity of Campagnolo. Campagnolo is vastly superior to Shimano in terms of ergonomics and aesthetics

[@deanf2259]

@@richardparkin6119 Having always used Campagnolo, currently have 3 bikes on Campag 11 speed. I took the plunge and bought a new winter bike with Shimano GRX Disc 11 speed groupset. I have done alot of mileage on it but Campagnolo has better ergonomics, levers less prone to scratching because the brake levers are not angled out like Shimano. No matter how much I use Shimano I will never really get use to the fact that you have to move the brake levers to change gear. It's just odd. Also can be very easy to make incorrect gears shifts with thick winter gloves on Shimano as the two shift levers are so close to each other. This is just not possible on Campagnolo as the two levers are different positions. I'm not a Shimano hater just my opinion based of my experience. However, Shimano are losing the plot. Why got to 12 speed only road group sets and only offer 11/32 and 11/34 cassettes. Not long ago these where 2 by mountain bike gears ratios.

[@danc1829]

Dura ace and ultegra 12 speed are still available in rim brakes 🤷‍♂️ Not sure what u mean by ultegra and dura ace loosing their models 🤔

[@LainOTN]

And you can drop an ultegra shifters with 105 components as long as they are all 12 speed.... So no big deal, 105 HAS rim brakes options.

[@markj.a351]

What is annoying though is that the rim brake versions are still fully wired. I was going to get Ultegra rim brake until i found this out.

[@LainOTN]

@@markj.a351 wireless is absurd, the shifter are not going away from the deraulliers anytime soon. Coin cells are a pain in the ass.

[@MarkMcGuireD]

Honestly after using 105 R7000 for the last few years, I tried Campagnolo Centaur on a refreshed bike and really prefer the Centaur. It’s mechanical and easy to work with.

[@richardhaselwood9478]

Great analysis. As someone who has destroyed 2 rear mech's over the last 8 years, a lot of this stresses me. I'll say one thing though. I am overjoyed at the imminent death of rim brakes.

[@tesmith47]

Are you daft man? ???!!!?? Why?

[@bobzuidema3560]

The price, certainly when compared to it's predecessor, simply is outragious. I would pick SRAM any day of the week since I have a Hammerhead headunit. And what isn't mentioned in the video is the restricted gearing option 105 has to offer these days.

[@a1white]

I’d be more likely to want a Tiagra equipped bike. Like you say, ride what you can afford to replace. 10 speed is just fine by me and I love the simplicity of mechanical shifting think how much cheaper replacement 10 speed cassettes are vs 12 speed

[@chickenpoodle]

i think tiagra is probably going to inherit all the old 11speed parts (old 105, ultegra, etc) from their warehouses in the next iteration.

[@a1white]

@@chickenpoodle yeah probably, and get a price bump in the process. Tbh, the mechanical shifters are all pretty much the same now, so as long as they still do a 10 speed groupset (be it the next Sora or whatever), I’d be happy with that.

[@arturogonzalez658]

On point. Ride what you can afford. Dont be forced to purchase expensive equipment and because others are just showing off

[@chickenpoodle]

and one thing i'll add, that i forgot to say, was you can even slowly transition from 10speed to 11speed by making a frankenstein tiagra/105 combination, for example.

[@jorgeeduardozamoraacosta8627]

Best mechanichal groupsets: campagnolo; best electronic groupsets: sram; cheapest groupsets: sensah. What's the point on purchasing shimano???

[@deltagchemistry12]

I’m running mechanical 105 and will eventually upgrade to dura ace I guess now with 105 di2. How long will shi Mano make mechanical parts

[@dlbrickerstudio]

That is why I am keeping my 105 r7000 rim

[@Nikolas_karakitsos]

One correction the ultegra and dura ace 12speed have rim brake versions.

[@a1white]

Yeah I thought they did?

[@tomrachellesfirstdance7843]

They do just hard to find, that's one reason I'm surprised they dropped 105 rim

[@LainOTN]

​@@tomrachellesfirstdance7843 Because you can have ultegra shifters with 105 components? not worth having a 105 branded one when ultegra 12speed rim breakes levers are alredy "cheap" considering di2 prices. R7170 di2 hydro levers 390GBP vs R8150 di2 rim lever 299GBP.

[@Tony.in.motion]

I’ll keep riding my Rim brake Ultegra group set….

[@ShogunSamurai]

All of my road bikes are Ultegra rim brake. None of the frames are di2 compatible. I've been abandoned.

[@darthvulcanis4002]

Had the same problem. Switch to SRAM (cheaper and no internal battery) or campy (still offers rim brake but expensive)

[@elvisderblasehase9522]

Better modulation? 🧐

[@Dzaen2]

The final point is really really good.

[@TheBassallyear100]

the rear derailleur is the brains for every eTap setup also. that said i'm still rocking my etap red 11-speed and have no problems through years of service other than having to replace a few batteries.

[@daytch9485]

You don't need electronic shifting . It may be nice for high end bikes for high end cyclists, but I'm afraid you've let the investors and financiers, along with marketing shove this down our throats

[@livibam]

There’s a good reason why it’s not wireless.. Shimano explained why. They were experiencing connectivity issues during pro races.

[@sbccbc7471]

It's just two wires, I can't get over why people are bothered by the sight of them, not a lot of them are sticking out!

[@5891jonathan]

Yes, the first “issue” raised in this video is ridiculous. It’s not an issue at all.

[@m1mbz]

@@5891jonathan Agree, having a common power bus is better than having to charge four or five separate devices, having multiple things that need charging is a massive downer, charging bike lights and the wahoo/garmin is bad enough.

[@skulluxe1]

@@sbccbc7471 I think it’s because Shimano insists on calling it wireless

[@johnstrac]

Agree with most of this but moaning about a flat Di2 battery when out on a ride is your own fault ! I don't set off to drive to Scotland with a 1/10th of a tank of fuel.

[@mareklesniak8768]

@2:46 you DO have rim brakes with the newest Ultegra (R8100) and Dura Ace (R9200) series.

[@dhanso928]

Shimano is no longer for me. No mechanical, no rim brake, and very expensive to accomplish the same things my current components do, with a lot of needlessly complex fluff. Stuff it, Shimano!

[@kmcbayne22]

I went with Ultegra di2. This has opened my 👀. I didn't think about the potential cost of replacing the rear derailleur.

[@tomdebevoise]

I never thought I would spend north of $5K for a bike; however, I was on a group ride 15 miles from my car, and my rear derailleur ripped off the hanger at 20mph. In addition, this would have been the 4th time this has happened over a long biking career. The benefit to me of the DI2 is that I do not have to worry about taking my bike in for a tune up every 2K miles because the mechanical shifting quit working properly. I know there are youtube videos; however, I could never tune it as well as the bike mechanic. In addition, my new bike features 32mm tires and rim brakes. I always get caught in a rainstorm at least 1x per year.

[@DjRudeboy254]

point number 5.... thank you

[@reyguarinnjbchannel5850]

Impressive group set

[@richcrompton6891]

Apart from the issues you flagged up, the lack of ‘racer’s’ gear ratios is a total turn off for where and how I ride.

[@habakuc]

During the last 2 years i have used AXS Rival, Force, Red, Ultegra di2 and 105 di2. And the 2 biggest benefits i found are both in Shimano. The fly buttons and the capacity of the Shimano battery, its crazy high!!!, With sram i have to charge it once every week at least, with Shimano i think im charging the battery arround once every 2 months, if even. The shifter speed is better in some of them againts other, but nothing too terrible, how smooth is the shifting it is something to notice, 105 di2 is very very hard. For me the worse option is Rival, i had too much issues in 2 bikes with the same cog. The best option Ultegra hands down!, havent been able to test Durace yet.

[@tianyi05]

If you are going to pay that much so that you can go just a little faster, buy an e-bike you'll get more bang for the buck. People talk about how smooth their ride is, sounds like they are sitting at home on their sofa playing video games. Nothing like 20Km of Belgian cobbles to make realize that getting feed back from levers when you shift is a plus.

[@YiZongOng]

Won't the new Tiagra just replace the old 105?😅🤷

[@Finx5008]

This channel has SO much potential. Why do you insist on these amateurish clickbait videos?

[@alexanderlatham2163]

If they put the brains/Bluetooth/etc… with the battery that goes inside the frame, the signals wouldn’t get there through metal frames…

[@Ther1cemaker]

Just to tick off more people, the difference between 105 di2 and ultegra di2 is around 600~700 USD. At that point, why WOULDN'T I go for Ultegra? I'd just wait a lil longer to save up money and buy Ultegra! Plus companies LOVE to make a lineup differences between 105 di2 and Ultegra di2, and usually complete Ultegra bikes tend to have better components out of the box( like one-piece carbon handlebar, carbon rims, better saddles etc.) It's just not enticing enough for me to swipe my card for it.

[@mrwhiteshorts]

Id go Campag Chorus 12speed, mechanical, rim brake. £1100.

[@a1white]

Plus it looks so much nicer

[@Sr.D]

My plan was to get an entry level road bike, aluminum frame with carbon fork and probably Claris as nowadays looks like It's the bare minimum, and eventually start to upgrade the bike little by little, cause I like to tinker with my bikes, carbon components, maybe 105 in the future... But I'm starting to think that Chinese/Asian brands are going to be the future for a lot of people, and I can't see the point of an electronic group set if it's not really wireless like SRAM does. And lastly, disc brakes are not a market decision (not the case in MTB), but brands forcing us to buy more expensive products, relegating rim brakes to the lesser attractive bikes.

[@Ninja_Revenge]

Why not do full wireless?!!

[@jhnbtr]

This time next year there will be a rim brake version.

[@petedannatt]

I suspect Shimano is putting the brains in the rear derailleur as they are working towards a totally wireless groupset like SRAM. It. Might be safer in the front derailleur, but that wouldn't work for one by setups.

[@MK0-thestart]

Maybe in a few months we'll see some miracle in the Shimano 12-speed system

[@grahamelliott6041]

If your Di2 battery has run out of charge "several times" while you've been out riding, then should you really be working for a cycling magazine and dishing out advice on youtube ?

[@FH-cj7nm]

Just bought a complete Sram rival etap incl. Cassette for 750 Euros - so no Need for 105

[@bikemirror6620]

I just saw dura ace 12 speed rim brake di2 shifters. So likely there will be rim brake options for 105 di2

[@markj.a351]

They announced Ultegra and DA with rim brake models (they are still fully wired though). So if you want 105 rim brake you'll have to get Ultegra or DA shifters which can take the cable. It seems they didn't bother making 105 hoods with rim brake cable attachements. Maybe their logic is only top level riders would still bike the weight saving over disc brake performance.

[@davidjthornley2394]

rim brake ultegra 12 speed di2 is available in the uk

[@donwinston]

Why expire the mid and short cage rear derailleurs? The long one looks like a MTB derailleur. Yuk.

[@liu373]

i come from ultegra mechanical and wanted to switch to 105 di2, but the more weight is really too much in sum in the end, its about half a kilo

[@escamunicha4276]

the fact that you cant use 11-28, 11-30, 11-32 cassette. that's stupid

[@roadcc]

You could get the Ultegra cassette. But we'd say that 105 gearing is well-suited to the majority that are going to buy it

[@zeemon9623]

I think the argument for rim brakes here is kind of weak. While I agree that things getting more expensive is bad, that extra expense is much more to do with Di2 than with the braking system. My previous generation 105 disc brake equipped bike is cheaper than just the new groupset. The brakes are the same but the price is higher. There is no good argument for rim brake in the price hike of new 105. Furthermore, there will be a great amount of second hand bikes available even if new 105 will be too pricey. Older groupsets don't suddenly get worse and already produced parts don't suddenly vanish. The used market has always been the main avenue of the budget-oriented cyclist. EDIT: Just had a thought. You could theoretically (and with some conversion) hook up a hub dynamo to the battery to keep it topped up forever. Road cyclists could really learn something from commuters here.

[@KimJongSkill492]

Tiagras looking pretty good now tbh

[@petergiourelas3753]

Rim brakes are fine,be keeping mine

[@petergiourelas3753]

I'll be keeping my 86 105 groupset

[@thomaseser8359]

Maybe a grx disc brake groupset is an alternative. Or Campa

[@jakubpu]

Disagree with #1 completely. They have removed the worst cables, and got rid of a lot of complexity. Really good functional progress. Full wireless has its own problems - battery life, charging etc

[@Ravenblues]

You can charge the bike with a powerbank, if you are somewhere far from plugs chances are that you are already carrying one

[@EwanSupple]

Well I lament the death of rim brake/fuck electronic shifting...is the brain not in the RD simply to enable 1x setups?

[@agustinburgos8074]

try to route an internal di2 cable in hanlebar with a junction A, then the junction b ita pain:( this semi-wireless set up is much easier, but yea not really wirelles

[@timwong6818]

10mo later, problem solved because the price jumpped down to half the MSRP. (if you care about the boxes, and the 1-year warranty, then it is 75% of MSRP)

[@thomaseser8359]

For around 1500 Iwould buy a shimy Campagnolo Chorus mechanical groupset.

[@randellgribben9772]

it will out last the 105 by decades

[@billkallas1762]

Shimano has been dead to me now, for a few years. I've had bikes with 7400, 7700, and 7800, but they now have lost me. I live in a relatively flat area, so I can big ring a 10 speed 12-25 over just about anything. Back in my 7 speed days, I'd use a 12-21 for everything. After a decade or two, it was a 12-23 9 and 10 speed. Now I use a 12-25.

[@mioutdoors426]

The only reason DI2 isn't fully wireless is because SRAM patents

[@andyGi888]

Shimano had the best value option in the past, now it doesn't.

[@robinseibel7540]

Campy Chorus 12-speed for me: all mechanical.

[@velogoo]

good points well made

[@izi941]

Di2 brains have always been in the RD, not just in the newest version.

[@broccoli5408]

I am not going to replace my shifters any more. Downtube shifters from now on. More accurate, lighter, and cheaper.

[@livinginsyn4814]

I'm waiting to see what will happen when one of the Chinese forms firms (like sensah) comes out with an electronic groupset

[@roadcc]

It'll likely be dependent on them getting a distributor in the west. But we'd love a bit more competition, especially if it brought prices down

[@sudariev]

If your battery dying on Di2 you still have the rear shifting. The front one dies first.

[@jimmyhor78]

Missed 3 points. 1. Slow and noisy front shifting using old last gen servo motor. 2. Its heavy. 3. Severely limited gearing options. Since its the cheapest Di2 option. Shimano really made consumers pay a hefty price/performance penalty

[@anthonyduncalf-uk]

It's time for another company to take their place. Brakes aren't used that often on road bikes compared to mountain bikes either so rim brakes aren't a big enough problem to get rid of them completely . The cost of mid range bikes will be pushed up due to the price if Di2 and for pretty much no reason whatsoever.

[@ernestoechevers4741]

Why did you say dura ace and ultegra 12s ditched rim brakes? That is not true my lbs has both for sale not that they are the great deal because rim brake 12s runs cables all over it it has no wireless feature shimano just made a lot of people go sram and capag here in Panama rep.

[@unreliablenarrator6649]

Shimano is not the only choice. Chinese brands such as Sensah a good values and fill the gaps. You should give these alternative more attention.

[@anthonyduncalf-uk]

I agree but it's just warranty issues with stuff from China compared to over here.

[@Soraviel]

Personally I do not like rim brakes, especially during the wet seasons rim brakes are useless. I've used both rim brakes and disc brakes, my pendulum will swing towards disc brakes. Disc brakes can be replaced (referring to the disc brake pads and love the power).

[@Silidons91]

That's just flat out not true. Maybe if you're using alloy pads on carbon wheels.

[@Soraviel]

@@Silidons91 are you trying to dictate my experience? 🤨 You can't honestly sit there and dictate what I experienced with rim brakes, I had so many issues with them on my previous road bikes again, I'm not sure what you're trying to imply with your response. 🤨

[@JogBird]

im the opposite of you, i'll keep my 13.5 lb rim brake mechanical da9000 bike thanks.. the 'wet season' is mtb time for me w disc brakes

[@richardparkin6119]

@@Soraviel Pretty sure he's just implying that rim brakes are not useless. Useless is a pretty strong term. Disc brakes are heavier, noisier, and uglier. They are a nightmare to travel with. Rim brakes are a more elegant solution

[@Silidons91]

@@Soraviel Yes I'm calling you out because you're saying rim brakes are useless in wet which is literally not true. It's like saying the sky is red when it's actually blue. It's not a subjective statement, it's a statement of fact or fiction, and your statement is not true.

[@hcw199]

In this day and age... Who can afford £3000 + for a road bike. Bike brands still need to offer affordable mechanical alternatives with rim brake options. I imagine most bikes sold are the cheaper variety aluminum frames etc.

[@rickbeckner9906]

It’s “brilliant” but you have 5 major complaints?

[@jmallit]

They are really not even wireless as you cannot update firmware on the shifters without connecting a di2 wire to them.

[@andreemurray7039]

To experience don't need 12 speed have 9100 mercancal works awesome no 105 is a massive mistake

[@aveedub7403]

I have now started looking at Campag, after decades away! Their chain sets are far more appealing aesthetically, that being said unless I had the money I'd go for electronic shifting despite the additional weight it has over mechanical. Only if I da the money, I dont so I mix and match mechanical. Shimano are pricing themselves outta the door and crapping on their customer base! The Chinese will take over from Shimano pretty soon!