Shimano 105 Di2 Vs Dura-Ace: What’s The Difference?

[@gcntech]

What groupset do you have on your bike?

[@matthewho1053]

Ultegra R8000 mechanical

[@chrisspeksnijder1717]

Sh Ultegra Di2 with D-fly, from 2016..... Yeah, still going strong.

[@420HumptyDumpty]

Ultegra R8070 di2

[@guidonvanonder]

Campy mate

[@onehourmusicbc]

R8000 and 5800 on the other bike of course

[@Mbetman]

Dura Ace is far lighter than 105, why? Because your wallet you take on the ride has nothing in it anymore xD

[@neemyn407]

It takes all the coins, notes, it goes straight for your composites in your wallet to be able to pay for it ( Credit Card ).

[@luisfernandezquero5787]

Well, seeing the 105 price, is quite light as well ,😂

[@gcntech]

Would you go 105 over Dura Ace?

[@amishrider]

@@gcntech yes. 105 is solid and the differences you've highlighted here do not justify the price for dura-ace

[@alexandervansteenberge1308]

@@gcntech yes

[@DanRC69]

105 is definitely the better option, especially when 105 cranksets don't disintegrate like Dura-Ace ones do.

[@scottsutoob]

I wonder if this new crankset keeps the old 7000 design that was less likely to fail or adopts the Ultegra/Dura Ace design that debonds.

[@piast99]

Unfortunately, 12 speed 105 cranks are also glued together. If they did not improve their process they'd fail the same as Ultegra and Dura Ace.

[@scottsutoob]

@@piast99 This has got to be less of a problem than we all think it is. Otherwise Shimano would reengineer the cranks. The internet does amplify a bias. Here is what I mean. Say Shimano sells a million Ultegra cranks (I have no clue what the actual number is). And 5000 fail. This is a 0.5% failure rate, not that bad. But hundreds of those failures will end up being posted on the internet. Suddenly every one thinks all Ultegra cranks fail. Nobody posts, "I rode 150 km today and my cranks worked fine."

[@ImAnEmergency]

@@scottsutoob that’s a very good point and well said

[@willum5175]

I have killed two Ultegra bonded R8000 cranks at a rate of about 14 months each. I still have the third one and barely used it before just taking it out of service. My situation is probably a little off from others but not out of the range of how it’s meant to be used. If you use it long enough, I’m pretty convinced it WILL fail. But I do understand why you might feel the way you do about how often it happens.

[@Silidons91]

Still running mechanical here, and will for the foreseeable future!

[@stevefraser7501]

A similar comparison between 105 & Ultegra would be very useful.

[@damiankelly8945]

I agree! That’s the decision for me, Ultegra or 105. I went 105, as for an amateur, pleasure cyclist I want tech, but don’t want to pay more than I need to. 105 yet to be fitted, not doing it myself :/D

[@djmanahan9466]

I bet thats the least they want us to know. The difference is too narrow, no one will buy ultegra

[@gcntech]

Noted, Thanks steve! 🙌

[@jasonxiong8259]

When every winter my weight gains into 98kg, sora works the same as dura-ace to me.

[@gcntech]

Glad you enjoy Sora, a great workhorse groupset 🙌

[@jasonxiong8259]

@@gcntech Hopefully one day I’ll get a chance to really appreciate dura-ace after a successful weight loss XD

[@10ktube]

If you have to pay for Dura-Ace, you don't need it. Doesn't mean you shouldn't have it, doesn't mean you shouldn't eat Corn Flakes for a month to help save up for it, but the differences aren't that big of a deal to anyone to matter. That said, DA is really really nice, and Corn Flakes aren't so bad.

[@stevek8829]

have you checked the price of corn flakes by weight? Back to gruel (oatmeal) it is. Don't forget the ramen.

[@gcntech]

If Dura Ace get's you out riding then that is great 🙌 cornflakes for a year ⚖ Dura Ace... tough decision! 🤔

[@JoeriVerraest]

Made me laugh, great comment!

[@jk1984]

Could you do a video on the differences between GRX di2 and 105 di2?

[@rangersmith4652]

For all but pro racers, there's no real-world, practical reason to go for Dura-Ace over 105. But a lot of wannabe racers will pop for the Dura-Ace set anyway, and that's fine. Two key things to consider when making the choice: 1) Ultegra, which sits in between and can scratch the ego itch similarly, and 2) all the other things that two-grand difference can buy, such as a way better frameset or a round trip ticket from the US midwest to Italy.

[@gcntech]

Whatever makes you fired up to get riding is the best option 🔥

[@gbusby]

I test road a Trek Domane+SLR6 last week with 105Di2. It was very smooth

[@moorsal]

Yes! Bring on more Nerd editions 👍👍👍

[@gcntech]

Glad you enjoyed it 🙌

[@thomasblak5315]

No doubt in my mind that I will be purchasing the new Dura Ace to replace my 11 speed Ultegra. This video just cemented the deal.

[@gcntech]

Enjoy 👌 Dura Ace it dreamy 🤤

[@andreemurray7039]

The dura ace power Crank is not very accurate and a lot of reviews have said it not good and price of the group set have go very high and do we really need 12 speed I find personally 10 speed is fine and a good mercancal set up is fine and no battery problems

[@backpacker3421]

So I was listening along here in America while also working on something else. I heard "there's a whopping difference... 2000 pounds to be precise" and I had to go back and listen. For a second I thought you'd bungled the weight difference... that would be a huge difference! Honestly, 2000 pound sterling difference from Dura Ace to 105 is not nearly as big a jump as it used to be. Back in the day, Ultegra to Dura Ace was almost that big a jump for a whole throughset.

[@ulrichz4099]

I literally went for Ultegra yesterday. Without the cranks, because I don't like Shimano cranks. Upgrading from mechanical 105, I didn't want my bike to get heavier, so 105 DI2 was not an option. Plus I wanted to get the button on top of the shifter to switch tabs on my Garmin. Let's see how it will work out once I received all the stuff and upgraded my bike :)

[@gcntech]

Oooo very nice! Enjoy 👌

[@thedownunderverse]

Which cranks did you get

[@ulrichz4099]

@@thedownunderverse I have Rotor Aldhu 30mm cranks

[@thedownunderverse]

@@ulrichz4099 nice. Ive been considering similar (but 24mm) - any issues with chain drops using (I assume) the 43.5mm axle? What rings do you use?

[@ulrichz4099]

@@thedownunderverse i'm using the 52/36 chainrings from rotor. The whole crankset is lighter than DuraAce at a similar price and no problems so far. (Using the rotor crankset almost 2 years I think) I can't remember the last time my chain dropped. I have a chain catcher on the inside, just in case. But I think it's more common to drop the chain on the outside when shifting up and putting pressure down too early. If the setup of the derailleur is done correctly, it works perfectly fine

[@markcowen9538]

105 r7000, can’t be beaten for my needs

[@moovik1020]

It's à must have

[@chrisridesbicycles]

Talking upgrades: Can you make a video about the compatibility. 105 with Ultegra levers seems like a good idea to me. You get the additional buttons plus servo wave (if that works together)

[@GeorgeD1]

As far as I know Ultegra shifters won't work with 105 derailleurs because of the different firmware (and different construction of the front derailleur) which Alex mentions. Another shady move...

[@BetterShifting]

You can mix 105 / Ultegra / dura-ace just fine :)

[@gcntech]

Great idea, Maybe we'll look into compatibility next 🙌

[@andrewmcalister3462]

Yeah, Ultegra/DA shifters for the extra buttons, with a 105 rear mech seems to offer the best functionality.

[@steven_willems]

@@gcntech It works just fine. It’s also the way to go to get 105 Di2 on your rim brake bike.

[@adambranson1095]

WOW, how many times has that Orbea with 105 dropped its chain? Look at the frame damage through the chainring.

[@DM-tg8es]

Great video. Curious what watch you are wearing in the video. Thought it was the Garmin Epix, but the buttons don't look the same as mine. Thanks!

[@chrisspeksnijder1717]

Both bikes are beauties..... Thanks prof.

[@gcntech]

Which one would you go for? 🤔

[@Hambini]

No mention of the cranks falling apart

[@thedownunderverse]

Of course not.

[@peterkerr164]

Great presentation!

[@GeorgeD1]

At its current price the new 105 is sadly just a decoy product to push you into spending more and going for Ultegra.

[@gcntech]

Would you opt for Ultegra?

[@GeorgeD1]

@@gcntech Actually, yes. 105 R7100 offers no Hyperglide+, last gen front derailleur, no extra buttons on the shifters, 3+ kg in weight...and still costs *almost three times* as much as the R7000 when it launched. It's even more expensive than Ultegra Di2 R8070 at launch...in 2018. I see the new Ultegra R8100 is in stock at around £2050/£2300 (at today's exchange rate) at one of my preferred retailers, which compared to 105 at roughly £2000 is just the obvious choice...which Shimano wants you to make.

[@thedownunderverse]

@@GeorgeD1things have since changed. I’m seeing 105 Di2 very cheap now

[@ttr6611]

I would prefer if Shimano would still sell a mechanical version of the Dura Ace groupset… Electronic groupsets make bikes way more expensive, as the prices are minimum doubled! So my choice is still the mechanical Ultegra groupset combined with Dura Ace disks. This is saving the (toxic) batteries, weight and money.

[@kurtverbrugge]

What would be a great topic to look into is what is the what is most value for money on cassette, brake disk and pad, chain. I have the ultegra and read somewhere that shimano said that the best component to upgrade is the chain. I will test that out, does it shift better like they claimed and is at as or more durable. I would like to know that for other components especially for the brakes, is it just weight ar does it also perform better.

[@dwampss]

Depends on what combination you're looking for and how you ride. I'm trying to figure out where might be the best upgrades to blend capabilities with the base being 105 Di2. The Dura Ace cassette and rotors look to be significantly better than 105 and have some of the larger weight savings impact as well. 105 chain is solid and very little upgrade to Dura Ace is likely to be found. Stay away from the Ultegra chain. I'm trying to figure out if I can simply put the Dura Ace cassette on the 105 and get Hyperglide+ or if that's also delivered through the rear derailleur firmware so would also require the Ultegra or Dura Ace rear derailleur. For me, I tend to almost exclusively use the rear gears so just the rear shifting is where I'd spend the money. Braking is also important to me as I'm in the city and peace of mind and performance on sudden braking is a performance and safety upgrade.

[@thecleaner81]

From the 105 groupset only the rear deraileur is interesting, because of the extra capacity (11-36 cassette). For the other parts Ultegra is just slightly more expensive but are much nicer in my opinion. Now I'm looking forward what the 12 speed GRX DI2 has to offer.

[@thedownunderverse]

I’m tipping there will be a 1x13 GRX

[@jrgenstutemeyer9185]

Great video 105 vs. Dura-ace. Could you do a video with the Campagnolo Super Record vs. Chorus (just for us who loves of everything Italian 🇮🇹😍, like Pinarello, Colnago, Wilier, Bianchi etc etc). I know that Campagnolo only makes the Super Record in an EPS-version, but you could do a comparison of the mechanical versions. And please also do a Dura-ace vs. Super Record EPS (and yes I know, there is a price difference between the Shimano DA Di2 and the Campagnolo SR EPS in favour of the Dura-ace).

[@Team5TL]

I would love to see the Campy comparison also.

[@gcntech]

Lots of request for some campag comparisons 🤔

[@andrewmcalister3462]

@@gcntech Campy ekar is really popular - definitely want to see more videos on this.

[@damu6678]

I never see anyone cover the TT version of Shimano Di2. Can you please cover that?

[@user-uy9qj6vs3f]

Same comparison for SRAM please

[@frankdelarosa9527]

What if you bling-out 105 with titanium bolts and other lightweight pieces. How close can you bring 105 to competing with DA weight wize.

[@darwindender5912]

Would there be any SRAM components video coming soon? Interested in that

[@jasonp3253]

Okay GCN now how far back in time do you have to go for the current 105 set to be better than the Dura-Ace? So compare today's 105 to say Dura-Ace from 5 years ago and so on until the 105 is better. Please.

[@robrob4224]

Recently bought myself a Cube Agree 105 di2 for 2899,-. The Ultegra di2 version was 700,- euros more expensive which was a no brainer for me

[@scottsutoob]

Are there plans for different cassette sizes? I live in a flat place, plus I am old and slow these days. I would never use a 11,12 or 34. Maybe a 30. These cogs are just a waste of cassette space. Rather have some extra cogs in the middle somewhere.and a 13 outer.

[@deswhite8268]

because of price will be looking at sensal or ltwoo. Mechanical but 12 speed. Only issue is my current bike is an Orbea e-bike using tiagra so unsure of durability

[@dmmaggi]

The new "weight doesn't matter" thing is interesting.

[@thepict5886]

I have Ultegra di2 on my summer bike and 105 di2 on my winter bike. The main difference I feel is when I change the front chainring. A bit clunkier on 105. Love them both though.

[@OrdinaryJoe12]

wooooooo whhoooppeee dooooo, good for you pal!

[@aidanmasterson50]

Changed out my Ultegra 12sp 52-36 for a Dura-Ace 50-34.hoping to shed some weight. Those 38 grams were so not worth it. Ultegra is the sweet spot.

[@uriskall]

Currently have mechanical 105.... new bike for next year gravel races and sportive...probably the same. Well at least keep the mechanical part but might upgrade to higher group set.

[@gcntech]

Good luck upgrading! You'll love it 🙌

[@tn9274]

does 105 crank still solid piece or follow ultegra & dura ace one hollow and bonded together?

[@TheKMov]

Dura-Ace rotor easier to bend compare to 105 rotor.

[@lukebarley8416]

Alex, I'm looking to go to 160mm crank arms and I currently have r8000 11 speed 170mm crank arms (with pf86 bb). Would the new 12 speed r8100 160mm option work with the 11 speed ultegra? Shimano don't recommend it but what's the reason?

[@danalec4742]

The chinese company Ltwoo presented a hydrolic mechanical road groupset last week. Its about 70% cheaper than Shimano DuraAce. End of the day it's all about the sport and the adventure and 30g heavier groupset than 105 its not a problem for me. High rated shimano groupsets are for the Pro cyclists. For me the best is riding for the pleasure and health and not thinking about expensive parts and few grams and few seconds difference. This is just an opinion. 😉

[@gcntech]

Great comment Dan! Hydro groupset sounds interesting 🤔 105 is still a great groupset!

[@andrewa.3304]

Does the ultegra 12 speed front mech be use for upgrade from 105?

[@donaldduck5731]

My great aunty Muriel had one bike all her life with a 3 speed stumey archer, got her to the bus depot during WW2 when she worked on the busses and then to work, the seaside at the weekend for fish and chips and back for the rest of her life. Will either of these goupsets last 50 years of daily use I wonder?

[@scifi2688]

Which one "doesn't" have any parts on the recall list?

[@JulAlxAU]

If you are an amateur or the weekend leisure ride, not too sure why you would get Dura-Ace!? Just hop on the bike, spin and enjoy your ride and you’ll end up saving a lot of money 👍

[@phillippitts6294]

Not really sure what groupset to get . I’d like to know which brand kept throwing chains at the tour , so I can steer away from it .

[@liquidSpin]

It’s that 25 seconds that made me get the Dura Ace Di2 9270 groupset 😅

[@andrewmcalister3462]

1:42 glasses but no white coat? That's a Nice in the Nerd Vault.

[@ChrisCapoccia]

Should do a compare of Shimano 105 Di2 vs SRAM Rival eTap AXS

[@ChrisCapoccia]

And maybe some comments from Orbea on why their 105 Di2 equipped Orca is only available at a completely different spec than one with Rival eTap with $1000 price difference

[@warlokk600]

So wich groupset is best for a right handed person ? :) (you never covered that...)

[@fiorum1]

Great assessment!

[@klx-y]

So Alex! if Shimano 105 is the groupset of the people, and Shimano durace the best Shimano can offer to the people. what bout Shimano Ultegra?

[@gcntech]

That's a whole tech show topic there! 🤯

[@testdirver]

all i want are a cheap reliable hidraulic brake levers for road as the mt200

[@thedownunderverse]

Flat bar

[@JCleggy]

I'm a musician. I showed up to an open mic/open jam with my BEST guitar that cost tons of money. It's an impressive instrument. I played pretty well. The next guitarist up came with a TERRIBLE, cheap, beat up guitar ...and he played so well that I looked like a beginner compared to him. There I was, the guy with deep pockets but not a ton of ability. I'd rather be on mechanical 105 looking fast than on di2 whatever and not performing as well as my bike might suggest. The cooler option is the stealthy option.

[@bleckb]

I wonder if the new HG+ cassette would be an advantage in shifting with previous generation Di2 mech, etc. I’m afraid to look at the price on those cassettes though.

[@ulrichz4099]

how would you be using a 12 speed cassette with an 11 speed mech?

[@bleckb]

@@ulrichz4099 Oh yeah. Guess that answers that! 🤣

[@gbusby]

$300

[@AaronMarasigan]

is the servo wave worth to get in ultegra than 105 that doesnt have it?

[@AlexssandroPhoto]

Hi, 105 di2 working with Shimano Shimano Dura Ace Di2 Sw-r9150?

[@dyzoly]

It is not IF, but WHEN your brakes rub.

[@sotoschristofides799]

I don’t agree with not being able to tell… I had the Shimano 105 cassette (As was recommended by my local bike shop) on my Ultegra groupset and very recently upgraded to the Ultegra one with hyperglide+ and the change is night and day…

[@creative907]

Ultegra Di2 is the forgotten middle child that no one talks about.

[@gcntech]

Never forgotten. Would that be your groupset of choice?

[@creative907]

@@gcntech I do prefer Ultegra because of the better value it provides vs. Dura-ace. And, the marginal weight gains over 105. My first road bike had a mechanical 105 (5700) groupset, so jumping from that to my current set up of Ultegra Di2 (8070) was a huge jump.

[@zodgzod]

Should do 105 vs Ultegra - “only” £800 difference, so more of a real world choice.

[@fennec13]

The only question of merit with 105 Di2 (still hugely expensive) and Dura Ace Di2 is : Is it worth $2,90 to have 630g less weight? I have GRX 810 on my bike.

[@2.old4this]

#AskGCNTech - Thanks Alex for a great show - you Guru Nerd! Q: my Giant Defy Advanced Pro has 105 mech from new this year but, I recently noticed the shop supplied it with Shimano’s cheapest 160mm disc rotors and not 105 rotors. Naughty! Maybe it was a parts shortage? Anyway, I’ve just bought 160mm Ultegra range rotors to enhance stopping power. My point: would you brake test Dura Ace v 105 Di2s please. Do rotor quality matter? Cheers.

[@Jamess92]

Best of both world would be 105 with a few cheap rolling dura ace parts like discs and casset.

[@reaodasdf]

I’ll be on my R7000 105 for a sling time

[@kaupo80]

The unit of mass is gram, "g" for short (not "G").

[@xtrailz]

Alex hanging around with Ollie has turned him into a bit of a professor. Once he lets his hair grow out and has a big floppy fringe, there will be no way of telling them apart.

[@gcntech]

Alex is giving Ollie a run for his money 🤣

[@tommi.r]

#AskGCNTech Hi GCN! If you start off with a 105 Di2 groupset, is it possible to incrementally upgrade to ultegra/dura-ace as and when each part needs replacing?

[@5891jonathan]

What components do you anticipate needing replacement, though? Crank? Bottom bracket?

[@tomrace3057]

Looking at the Di2 front mechs, I was wondering whether anyone had considered an aerodynamic faring over it? It looks like a fair chunk of plastic sitting in the airstream. Of course, it's insignificant compared with the body of the cyclist I guess, and it's all within the flow broken by the front wheel, cranks and rider's leg, the but it still looks ugly to me when the mechanical mech has much less substance.

[@ryanbangmendoza]

Can a 105 di2 rear and front mech compatible with ultegra di2 rim levers? Thanks! #askgcn

[@BK_BK_ME]

Thanks for your video, but now the price Di2 105 is rapidly down to below 1000$, it is the best group for Ammateur now.

[@thedownunderverse]

Totally agree. Just wish they’d do a 48/34 chainring.

[@Z-u-m-a]

New 105 costs the same as my entire new (Ribble) carbon bike with mechanical 105 on? Crikey.

[@gcntech]

There is a certainly a jump up to DI2, How are you getting on with mechanical? 🔎

[@Z-u-m-a]

@@gcntech Getting on great thanks. No issues at all.

[@tomglista]

I have Ultegra. Differences please.

[@Superfly1503]

Why doesn’t ultegra ever get a run in these tests? Seems like it’s the forgotten groupset.

[@trainiax]

Perhaps because it's so similar to Dura-Ace. I recall an older GCN video where they explained how previous generations of Ultegra and Dura-Ace were essentially developed in parallel, with the only difference being that Dura-Ace didn't have to meet a price point (hence the slight weight reduction)

[@richard.c.griffiths1468]

If 630g is 0.7% then why am I falling for the carbon spacer, titanium bolt con..?

[@devinmorrison7131]

Where are the rim brakes?

[@1835dueber]

Campy Record Ergo 11. Sorry, I'm a 75 year old retro grouch.

[@LFMC1]

Shimano SWB (suckers will buy).

[@dyzoly]

You call it trickle down tech, I call it trickle up price.

[@NeoPayneHK]

swap the R8100 FD will be all good

[@TuanMinh-sv2gq]

Why is all of this so unbelievably expensive? Even the mechanical 105 is so so so pricey. I just can't understand why. Why isnt it 1/5 the price? Anyone can explain?

[@andrew.triggs]

I think I'll stick with Tiagra and an upgraded crank.

[@shanewiseman5729]

Now the groupsets of the dentists and lawyers, the bike industry is laughing at the consumer at the moment.

[@kalijasin]

105 weighs more which is a downside but its repairable unlike dura ace because made from aluminum rather than carbon.

[@richardhaselwood9478]

Dura Ace is entirely aluminium, and carbon fibre is more repairable than aluminium

[@ayowser01]

The real question is whether mechanical shifts faster than di2 105.

[@PeteEllson5656]

Great video. Thanks Alex.

[@ervinbrakic5988]

Why do I still want Dura Ace? 😂

[@seattlegrrlie]

I'm planning to buy Ulterga. 105 bikes don't have the upgraded components and dura ace bikes are waaaaaaay too expensive for what I do. I'm not a pro and I'm not made of money. Ulterga is the happy middle

[@stigandersen5495]

We get stronger legs with heavy equipment😊

[@moovik1020]

105 , 3000g 1900e , ultegra 2700g 2800e, dura ace 2500g 3800e.. 1000e each 200g less 😢 i take 105

[@bobjohnson7207]

Dura Ace is a Durable they both work and always have. Go for the 54 There's things called downhills and tail winds. I hate those safety gear ratios.

[@cb6866]

Thanks Alex et al......eh.....

[@maikezhang4787]

except the 105 cassette, there are not much difference between da and 105, the 105 cassette is really heavy and da cassette shifts more smoothly than 105.

[@BixbyConsequence]

Unless there's significant prize money on the line I can't imagine caring in the least about 20 seconds on Huez.

[@massimoserafini8115]

If you squint your eyes, you can tell yourself that your 105 is Dura Ace 😂

[@gcntech]

Hahaha very true ! No shame in 105 🙌

[@kylehagertybanana]

I see more people on claris and lower than i see on 105 or higher

[@jimboukis9023]

If you have money to burn, NP. Unless you’re a pro racing, not needed. Lose a few pounds and you’re good to go. We’re talking grams of difference in terms of weight. JMHO

[@TheMoodyedge]

Oh look, another payed advert.