50 ZEALOTS v 90 MARINES v 200 ZERGLINGS

[@swordarmstudios6052]

Interesting to observe the balance of how Zealot is superior in not-upgraded matchups, but Marines rock when fully upgraded.

[@HellecticMojo]

it's sad that Zealot is awful to use early game as well because they can be micro'd to hell by terrans and queens are more than enough to take care of them.

[@CallsignYukiMizuki]

Because the Marine's upgrades effectively bumps their number up to 135 at the start of every engagement. (+10 HP from shields, -10 from stim for +50% RoF for 20 sec which equals to the same firepower as 135 Marines) while Zealot and Zergling upgrades dont snowball to this scale. They also have the advantage in range, so they can continously engaging and output damage consistently unlike the other two which keepn dancing at the back or need to reposition while getting shot at. It's definitely very intersting because a little micro and some setup can very much change these matchups

[@bluenicholasbf2142]

The primary reason is because the determining factor is not the weapon and armour upgrades (since they basically cancel each other out i.e. 3 armour negates 3 attack somewhat), so the definining factor is the unique upgrades. For the zealots, their only unique upgrade is speed, which allows them to close the distance faster but does nothing to affect their actual combat once they are attacking. For the other 2, stim and adrenal glands increase their attack speed which does significantly affect their combat potential. If the zealots had an upgrade that also increased their attack speed like the other 2 the fight might very well go their way!

[@HellecticMojo]

@@bluenicholasbf2142 or if their impact damage didn't get patched out. They said it was to improve late game adept usage, but we all know that never happened

[@ulisesmorones5222]

Also, it was not perfectly balanced to resources, maybe 10 more marines in the upgraded engagement could have made that into a victory for the marines

[@BluePhoenix_]

Elite warriors vs prisoners with guns Sadly zealots don't have any combat upgrades, they only do be zooming. The other two get combat upgrades.

[@sonoffenix3399]

Charge originally did an impact damage, too, but it made them actually effective, so the Bug Nonce team took it back off them.

[@gamechanger8908]

@@sonoffenix3399 they really need to add that back.

[@sonoffenix3399]

@@gamechanger8908 Zealots back to 80/80, attack down to 1.1 from 1.2 in line with BW (no, that bullshit change to 100/60 doesn't deserve acknowledging), give Charge back its Sundering Strike impact, reduce their vision to 8 from 9.

[@sonoffenix3399]

I have a *stack* of these, primarily for Protoss, that I've been working on for my own balance approach, but nowhere near the time the community has...

[@dimitarlinov2393]

@@sonoffenix3399 doesn't 80/80 hurt them more? Because 0 base shield armor and +20 shields to emp/widow mine?

[@tauIrrydah]

You can really see here that the issue is almost always for the melee pawns, pathing, getting muddled and confused and not being able to optimize where to go is killing the upgraded zealots.

[@ashoka9306]

true but if you put advanced ai or a player good at micromanaging units they would equally use the to stutter step or smartly deploy all those marines

[@ZC.Andrew]

@@ashoka9306 Yup. In fact it becomes much worse. A-move AI is a better scenario for the melee units than humans

[@argokarrus2731]

It's interesting that the Marines are 500 minerals less. Maybe try this with equal cost for all three sides?

[@janshmat8363]

Marines, and all ranged units have a massive advantage in these large clump battles because they don't need surface area contact to deal damage. If there were an even number of marines they would win every fight.

[@nicholasng9814]

@@janshmat8363 correct but its also true that zealots have almost 4 times more hp than marines and also does about twice the dps. Bear in mind aswell that that the price of marines accounts for the fact that it can shoot both air and ground therefore its efficiency for that 50mineral is less because it is solely ground battle vs lings and zealots. When you pay you pay for the versatility. Who needs versatility when its solely ground

[@aboithatsaboi182]

@@nicholasng9814 the thing is though that Terran units have better cost efficiency than other races units, and marines also are balanced by being absolutely destroyed by any splash damage. Against any unit without splash damage, they will easily win.

[@tunguska2370]

WarThunder player: Marine is an AA unit because .50 cal

[@Darlf_Sevil]

teran are balance ;3 tell no one zerg and protos mein never xd

[@Duongy94]

There is still much more that can be observed, being ranged, marines have the advantage of being able to micro, and that there is more damage coming from all marines since both zealots and zerglings need to get close and formulate the concave. It did seem that the use of stim was inconsistent, being used in the end to kill off the remaining zerglings. So it really, zerglings and zealots could win depending on their positioning. It would be nice to see more parameters explored within these experiments

[@Joseph-nx5gv]

Shows how gateway units become less effective over the course of the game and why the other races need splash damage to deal with marines.

[@snagsTS]

Marines just being the most cost effective tier 1 unit in the game. Add half decent micro to it and it just becomes ridiculous. I feel sorry for the Zealots.

[@AruSharma04]

Sorry for the zealots? Zealots are the only blind a-move basic attack unit in the game. Oh, did I mention they don't have a build time because they can just be warped in?

[@snagsTS]

@@AruSharma04 fair enough, but it feels like Zealots got left behind somewhere. I really don't see them as a threat besides their potential for runby's. Siege tanks just ruin them. Marines you can at least micro, as you said yourself, Zealots are just A+move units.

[@Skullhawk13]

@@snagsTS Co-Op zealots have it rough too. Centurions are OP but don’t see use cause DTs, Sentinels cost a lot for what you get so only a mineral dump meat shield, supplicants are literally just fuel, Legionnaires are only good to give Kaldalas a body. Only Artanis Zealots do damage, and they need his guard shell to do it. Which is a shame, Lorewise they’re super badass.

[@snagsTS]

@@Skullhawk13 oh I know. Lore wise I love Zealots and nearly everything about the Protoss. Even if you look at the LotV opening cinematic those Zealots are magnificent, yet the in game version is just meh. I suppose they suffice as a tier 1 unit, but compared to where Marines and Zerglings end up Zealots just feel underwhelming.

[@Skullhawk13]

@@snagsTS Agreed on all counts, and I’m Zerg girl

[@You-ul8qw]

Nice touch with the marines including combat shield in the little intro bit when they're upgraded.

[@newtybot]

Zerglings too. And Protoss get little leg nodes

[@jigokutsuushin]

If the marines had stutter-step micro they'd win vs protoss even in the unupgraded round, I think.

[@Frontline_view_kaiser]

Marines with sufficient micro beat pretty much everything that's melee

[@jimmyha1898]

@@Frontline_view_kaiser pretty sure 5-3 ultras shit on 3-3 stimmed marines stutter or not.

[@CrazynToughKiwi]

@@jimmyha1898 marines are almost as fast ultras, and can split up both to reduce cleave damage and so that whichever rines are being chased kite while the others fire away.

[@jimmyha1898]

@@CrazynToughKiwi The equation did not involve medivacs or medics, and the marines have 55 HP with combat shields. You stim 4 times and you can no longer stim. Good luck trying to stutter and split when you reach 5 hp. The ultras with 5-3 upgrades have what, 7 armor? I forget how much base armor ultras have in sc2 but it's either 6 or 7 with full ups, which means the ultras sure as hell can tank marine shots until you use 4 stims. Also, if what you said is true about stimmed (I assume stimmed?) marines being almost as fast as ultras, then it's even less likely. You can't kite something when you are slower than the other.

[@lancelindlelee7256]

I don't think they even need stutter step. They should have just clumped into a ball and give less surface area to the zealots. That's what happens when you a move anyway.

[@MusicHavenSG]

That's why with enough micro, mass marines are pretty effective against pretty much anything and one good stim just sends the burst DPS through the roof.

[@jimmyha1898]

They will not be able to beat colossi, sieged tanks, lurkers and Templar, micro or not. They also have a hell of a time vs BCs if upgrades are even.

[@1LERS1]

@@jimmyha1898 Considering that how many top players use the strategy of mass marines with medics, says a lot.

[@sirsiver]

that shows how insane marines are, they almost won every matchup with ease even if they were standing still. So immagine with a good micro how destructive they can be

[@Agent_Chieftain]

And this is why Marines can be a legit part of a late-game Terran army, while Zerglings and Zealots are usually regulated to small base harassment squads after the early game.

[@n7citadel147]

It's understandable how Aiur fell to the Zerg

[@jarrakul]

Stimpack sure is an upgrade.

[@redReiRei]

it's mostly the stim+marine shields, they add +10 hp to marines which equals to one free stim (-10 hp). If the marines had no shield, they would fall a lot faster and be more squishy. They make a huge difference in fights, that added survivability makes them the closest to OP since Wings of Liberty.

[@jimmyha1898]

Ultra advanced aliens with godly tech still fight with melee blades :P

[@DZ1K]

It reminds me foudal Japan and how they refused to get black powder weapons. It's not that they are not advanced to stop using it, it is because of the lore and Zealots were good against Zerg (Still lore)

[@matthewskaggs8447]

Marines are still trained in hand to hand combat despite having firearms with air and artillery support.

[@averax9875]

Dune vs Starship Troopers

[@PastraniO1ER]

@@matthewskaggs8447 Yeah, buy no way in hell they have a chance on close quarters combat against zealots.

[@jimmyha1898]

@@PastraniO1ER Yea rofl a Zealot can probably kill a marine with his bare hands EASILY when the marine runs out of bullets. Kinda like Covenant Elites vs regular marines in Halo. In fact....almost exactly like it :O

[@christopherhall5361]

interesting but not surprising that zealots would be better early game, but I wasn't expecting the marines to win that handily, I was expecting it to be closer

[@avalonaura4076]

makes sense that upgraded marines are that strong. The game was quite literally balanced around stimpack.

[@klopko249]

Why 90 marines and no 100? They are missing some supplay

[@dadpounder4209]

cuz man With gun and drug is Most powerful force in universe.

[@wowwee6508]

@@dadpounder4209 yep, can slaughter civilized and uncivilized aliens

[@WTF2BlueTiger]

terran propaganda, gotta make their units look balanced somehow lmao

[@PastraniO1ER]

@@dadpounder4209 yeah lol. Man with gun and drugs can take down capital size ships lmao

[@quantgeekery6358]

Protoss is basically forced higher up the tech tree by late game because of the wider range of upgrades to low tier Terran & Zerg units.

[@flamescion5225]

"kiss ma ass" had me laughing

[@biotechv8809]

why only 90 Marines ???? The other race have 5000 crystal of units, not the terrans ???

[@zhenweilai799]

Guns

[@Skorpion1991]

and that marines still won almost everything so whats the sense ;]

[@girthicusmaximus]

cost for cost the marines are untouchable.

[@joaopadua7134]

Dude the marine is the best unit in the game

[@sulljoh1]

Genuinely surprised when the poor Zealots win anything SC2 did them dirty

[@DemonKnight94]

Zealots seem better in smaller groups combined with ranged units. So that the Zealots all are able to attack and not be blocked.

[@zes7215]

wrgg

[@mikoajfrycz884]

6/6 feels good man

[@hnfiiinc5993]

The keyword is auto attack vs micro. Its over for marines if you let zealots touch you since they have a wide splash melee area of damage.

[@kamikeserpentail3778]

They have no splash.

[@supermercado6848]

rofl. zealots with splash damage that would be great

[@hnfiiinc5993]

@@supermercado6848 you gotta love them blades locking (and could make lore out of it). They could have made it where adjacent units make the center buffed (like a stand together) than make zealots dummy thicc early game.

[@hnfiiinc5993]

@@kamikeserpentail3778 It was a joke on them being melee meat grinders if you don’t kite

[@RideAfterMidnight]

Did those marines lose any health from those stims?

[@greatdragonsigner9217]

I believe they did

[@darklucario0784]

Question, where can they do that?

[@Lightman68]

Nice editing

[@quym373]

Terran only have 90 marines because there are 10 SCVs in back up that will ask: what, you run out of marines if marines lost the battle, then the SCVs will defeat any opponents

[@kennynguyenvn]

then the M.U.L.E.S

[@willyariel2499]

Me gusta tu contenido 👀

[@mingsky]

i'm 100% believe that a surrounded range unit well be lost 100% at a time. im talking about a marine in a center while the zealots/zerglings are in all different angles/direction rather than straight forward. even in showed SC1 kzbin.info/www/bejne/gZbEqXSqZcqdi9k at 0:40 but i kinda hesitate since marine in SC2 boosts +5 HP and compare to SC1 and also with upgraded shield which gives additonal to +10 with a total HP of 55HP. i dont know if zerglings can handle it in sorrounded units but i still believe that zealots can handle it in a sorrounded units due to Charge upgrade even if they had 55HP total. in this video 2:23 you can even see how many wasted Zealots using Charge without hitting the enemy when doing a straight line battle compare to a surrounded battle.

[@achromicwhite2309]

Proper surprised that adrenal lings don't beat stim marines with shields.

[@ultimategeass24]

Moral of the story, remember the stims

[@redReiRei]

shield + stim. The added 10 hp makes a huge difference

[@kamnale1317]

make one where its a free for all 3 armies running to the middle at the same time :D

[@GraveUypo]

marines will win easy because zealots and lings will reach middle first and kill themselves before marines even get to engage

[@OneWhoKnowsThings6009]

I thought we would get a 3 way...

[@joshoconnor9666]

100 marines would have been the fair equivalent

[@alexanderchenf1]

Why would marines charge?

[@anthonyzheng7274]

zealot master race

[@Россиянин-ь6б]

why 90 marrines wtf. not 100.......

[@MultiBahader]

Does having 2 defensive upgrades for protoss give them any edge over other races ? It seems to be they are non factor against combat upgrades of marines and zerglings.

[@TiredOwl464]

If anything its a disadvantage unless they get time regenerating shield

[@kamikeserpentail3778]

They only ever benefit from one at a time anyway, so it's more of a disadvantage.

[@gabrielgardner4572]

The shields applies to everything where as with zerg ground only applies to ground and air to air and terran with infantry upgrades, mech upgrades and air upgrades

[@manemperorofmankind8119]

So toss are only viable early games then while Terran is basically hold out till your tech is maxed

[@joaopadua7134]

Tf you mean tech is maxed? marines are literally T1 units with most of their upgrades that matter being also T1

[@baron2062]

Marines are probably the most cost effective unit in the game rn. They're what the majority of pro Terrans go just because they're so incredible when microed

[@HachiroTheAmoger]

damn marines obliterated zerglings twice and then dominated the upgraded rounds, superior numbers of men with better gun is far more effective than anything else thrown at em

[@stevenmayer8528]

Absolutely Perfect

[@FeeDBacKMKII]

Can someone explain my why Marines have to fight with 500Mineral kes then others

[@NooniiToons]

No

[@Captain_Israel88]

In equal number they will be too strong, 500Mineral less then others still winning most of the fights

[@ildar.ishalin.chelovek]

Yeah, they are stronger and they should win, that's how it should be. It's not fair to make 10 less of them

[@kamikeserpentail3778]

How can you possibly need it explained?

[@joaopadua7134]

Cause they are op af

[@anthonymendozachavez6639]

nice video

[@azerovendetta7774]

Why 90 marines? should be 100?

[@Vakaria-plays]

Stimpacks often let marines win their matches, as its much more valuable than the other upgrades, if Zealots did not get the sprint, but marines didnt get the stimpack, i dont think that Marines could win.

[@francisalcazar2649]

What mode is this.... is this a simulation???????

[@Darlf_Sevil]

why terran 4,500 ? ok they have range attack but if we want see how they work realy we need use 5k vs 5k minerals

[@kamikeserpentail3778]

If you want to see how they work really you have support units and ramps and you might as well just watch a real game. Why are they at 4500? Because they're still winning most of their fights, and it's a bit more interesting if it's not just a slaughter. But having them in a big line like that with no terrain or anything automatically makes it not realistic, nor particularly enlightening.

[@52flyingbicycles]

Stimpack is the best defensive upgrade in StarCraft

[@FernasRPG]

Why 90 and not 100 Marines? That world make it same cost

[@Skorpion1991]

they are the best anyway, thats why. But you are right that they should add same cost

[@kamikeserpentail3778]

I can't believe you guys have to ask this.

[@orangeshark2881]

this is why i upgrade marines

[@martinkurdi436]

Maybe Zealots should cost 25 less minerals or somethig, i feel like they fall off awfully fast

[@alkaratus9189]

Or, get tornado upgrade.

[@quym373]

marines could win all if they in circle formation

[@mastadero9343]

This is an uneven battle wtf?

[@dimitriych]

Чем меньше разовый урон, тем эффективнее апгрейд.

[@ПавелУшкин-п7р]

Тут это неважно, так как обе стороны получают и улучшение брони помимо урона, так что апгрейды атаки/защиты можно не считать

[@jktuert8630]

Only started video but money on marin's.

[@rmduwk]

Marines are best performing when there are medics(girls)

[@TubeTAG]

Are marines getting free stims? Like, not costing health?

[@angeladuviri9485]

Zerg buff pls

[@МахамбетМамыров]

Why not 100 marines? It makes this more round and the cost of the units would be the same

[@hectoragustinmansilla5730]

Protoss OP

[@haziqiman1317]

Conclusion: Protoss is great for early game pushing. But in late game, Terrans and Zergs has the better grasp

[@dhmo123]

Change "protoss" for "zealots" , "terran" for "marine" and "zerg" for "zergling" and i will agree with you.

[@ninjachihuahua4843]

Protoss op hurr durr

[@alexheyzavizky]

It turns out zealots are very underpowered. I gues that's because marines and lings have 2 upgrades each, and zealots have only one.

[@tomhe286]

No. The game does not work like that. Zealots are definetly not underpowered.

[@kamikeserpentail3778]

It turns out that if you have a bunch of units line up and move into each other without micro, they don''t at all represent the true capabilities of those units. Warping in and regenerating shields are a large part of their power.

[@supermercado6848]

I would say a large part of their power is that they are little tanks for everything else in your army

[@joaopadua7134]

Dude why would you ever just walk a bunch of zealots into a bunch of marines?

[@baron2062]

Zealots are really bad, like... Really really quite bad. I've only ever used them when going archon zealot quite a while ago, and when using colossi against zerg when I don't want to micro stalkers

[@flukalucas5732]

Zealots : i like fortnite

[@jesselee2792]

I’m deleting sc2 from now on.

[@Yondaime_Me]

Why?

[@jesselee2792]

@@Yondaime_Me losing interest in the game.

[@NooniiToons]

You'd think having the upgrade advantage into late game, that terran wouldn't need another cost effective unit like widow mines. Oh wait, that is why I left sc2 in 2013. Never played the game again. I was zerg

[@Captain_Israel88]

@@NooniiToons Now every zerg main said that ghost are op cause they counter every zerg late game unit

[@kamikeserpentail3778]

@@Captain_Israel88 Zerg in general has just always sucked to play. Except when they had the real Swarm Hosts, but those sucked for everyone.

[@AChouLaw]

Looks like zealots suck late game

[@scatterthewinds3126]

battle of who has the worst ai

[@solrainer7]

100 marines can Beat the 50 zealots. Buy there was only 90

[@Empanaditas571]

Zealot I like fortnite

[@Nazz-b7p]

Zealots are so weak lol and I'm a major toss player. Zealots are a waste of minerals and only good for run by on expansion

[@Captain_Israel88]

Zealots are the cheapest meatshield and save you a lot of gaz for archon. Im a toss main too

[@Nazz-b7p]

@@Captain_Israel88 I'm just complaining against Terran stepback with medivac, rendering them useless.

[@kamikeserpentail3778]

You're clearly a bad toss player. Going by this I'd have to say Zerglings are weak, but they're an amazing unit.

[@Nazz-b7p]

@@kamikeserpentail3778 you're clearly a unkind person, why choose to be? We all have within us to be kind to eachother. Especially when everyone and everything around us is so negative. So you deliberately were unkind. Thanks. Choose do be kinder in your next interaction, see how it goes.

[@baron2062]

No Zealots are truely just a bad unit, they're very mediocre even in their main tanking role, and basically exist to slap seige tanks