$500,000 Kickstarter Scandal: The Story Of Yogventures

[@Izzzyzzz]

Go to buyraycon.com/Izzy for 15% off your order! Brought to you by Raycon!

[@Solarstormflare]

yay new video :DDD

[@Phizzy]

lol

[@TheInfinityRed]

@@Solarstormflare ww

[@TheInfinityRed]

Dddddd

[@ErgonomicChair]

Raycons are literally scams. They rebrand $15 earbuds, using $4.50 of driver hardware and the rest is in the plastic cheap housing and copper. They are trash, they are $120-140, which is $60-80 more than better testing competitors. Moondrops are better in EVERY WAY and they offer a $60, 80, and $150 competitor. Raycons are LITERALLY scam, and and people are scumbags for plugging them. They are more expensive, cheaply made, and they SOUND AWFUL. They do the trick that gaming headsets do, they overblow the bass so it sounds like aa blown out vibration which tricks kids into thinking "oh man the bass is so loud!" But in actuality you aren't hearing all the bass in a song. You are hearing hi-bass and that's IT. No sub, no mid, Raycons are literally a scam.

[@WickedMarkio]

i really hope people realize not to back games with huge goals but small budgets even if it isnt a scam their planning will fall apart

[@gingermaniac5484]

No. If your videos where worth watching you would have an audience by now. You wouldn’t have to do the online equivalent of crashing a wedding just to propose to your mannequin to try and swindle others to come to your wedding instead It’s disrespectful to the op Piss off or engage in actual conversation

[@vglycorpse2001]

​@@gingermaniac5484 They're just bots, no point in wasting your time with them. only KZbin can fix the bot issues but obviously they care more about hurting innocent creators lmao

[@Xokoy]

This is a pretty major problem. Moreso than most people realise. Josh Strife Hayes has made a career on youtube just talking about bad MMORPGs and badly designed MMORPGs. It feels like the MMORPG genre is falling apart.

[@blowfishfootman]

Especially by people who have 0 experience developing games

[@akichanplay]

Its better to support small games with small goals, yes. Because if they'll succeed - they can be big, and you can be even more happy. and if it will be small - you'll got nothing to lose. they told you that.

[@lenaboyer6981]

Any time I hear about these kickstarter MMO disasters I’m reminded of the time I read a beginner’s guide to html/css and thought I could build my own tumblr theme

[@_-insertname-_]

So, can you?

[@luka-6388]

Literally me a few weeks ago 💀

[@xandermin]

idk if you're still interested in coding tumblr themes, but imo the best way to learn is by fiddling with already existing themes (for personal use ofc, always follow the original creator's tou). that's how i learned & i now know how to write my own basic tumblr themes from scratch :)

[@opossumontheinternet9864]

@Don't Read My Profile Photo Okay.

[@LieseFury]

@@opossumontheinternet9864 don't respond, just report

[@inthegrass11]

Izzy cold-opened with "yogscast was the original dsmp" and sent me spiralling into orbit huh

[@Belliqua]

when dsmp was described to me first thing out of my mouth was "so this dude is remaking the yogscast tekkit server"

[@EdJonesVideos]

I have never felt so old

[@KermitBagel]

The yogs were definitely pioneers for the minecraft roleplay genre :))

[@alyssinclair8598]

Is true tho. People are just mad at the younger generations kids content

[@mesmoe-rizing]

I'm still salty about Shadow of Israphel tbh

[@SorasShadow1]

This is an important event to remember when discussing Kickstarter fuck ups in the mid 2010s but always felt like it got majorly overshadowed by the Homestuck kickstarter fiasco

[@MassHaste]

What is Homestuck and what happened? Before you say anything. I do want to know.

[@qequals]

@@MassHaste homestuck was a super popular web comic back in the mid to late 2010s with an enormous fan base, izzzyzzz actually made a video about one of the scandals. but long story short the creator of homestuck also made a kickstarter for a video game and the original devs were paid but started developing a different game with the kickstarter funds (I think) causing the game to switch developers and to be delayed for like 5 years than originally planned and a bunch of other drama. it was a mess, like most tumblr fueled kickstarters back in those days

[@KetsubanSolo]

@@qequals It's a little more complicated than that. The Odd Gentlemen allegedly didn't even get a design document from Hussie until very late in their development (that's really important). But yeah that Kickstarter basically sunk Homestuck's reputation since there was like a good year of no content while both parties accomplished nothing

[@bnewtz7492]

@@MassHaste The plot and gameplay mechanics of the kickstarter Homestuck videogame inspired Toby Fox to create Undertale.

[@kamonskye240]

@@bnewtz7492 No. Undertale's demo was already out long before this happened.

[@MF-R]

"500,000$; that's hire whoever you want money!" Obviously that person has no idea how much making something like a AAA game costs. Which is basically what Yogscast wanted to do. 500K is maybe enough to make a 2D platformer that runs well and looks good. Why do you think so many companies reuse assets/engines? That stuff is expensive.

[@alejandrovallejo6763]

For real tho, for example, Rocket League costed 2 million to make, and thats a very simple concept, no open world, sandbox or building.

[@SaitoGray]

And the reward, taxe and kickstarter cut take a HUGE chunk of this amount. The team probably ad not even half of that.

[@judyh3707]

500k is "pitifully underfunded money"

[@rhys1264]

I laughed at the 'hire whoever you want money' like. Do they not realize how much games cost to make? What a game dev's salary *is*? That's barely enough to support 10 people, and I'm going to guess the lump sum money for the artists and other devs was going to be for a year? That isn't sustainable either.

[@souleaterevans4589]

This! For a game trying to break ground (as in, break into the industry starting from 0) the costs are insane for a relatively small and simple game. Remember Frogger? That simple little obstacle game with like 30 minutes of gameplay? That cost TWENTY-FOUR MILLION just to manufacture, which is closer to SIXTY million now. And Halo 3, which was partially made using existing assets and designs, costed 30 million on JUST development.

[@thelastchannelonyoutube]

While I sympathize with the people who were upset that the game they funded never came out. The accusation that the developers were given too much money to develop a fully fleshed out sandbox game is ridiculous. Every time a crowdfunding project like this comes out, there are always people who shout “you’re asking for too much!” When in reality, the budget is a fraction of what a big studio has to spend.

[@doopclann3428]

Maybe people who don't make video games shouldn't make video games from Kickstarter promises, maybe they should fund it like how cuphead started.

[@LilBadPanik]

I see where you're coming from, but half a million dollar for the first -unreasonably ambicious- project of a small team with no prior experience in game development is ludicrous as well. It would have been much better for everyone involved if the scale of the project had been reevaluated way down prior to having it crowdfunded.

[@UnreasonableOpinions]

The only people who understand game dev costs less than people running doomed Kickstarters are people funding doomed Kickstarters. Just because it is more money than you have ever conceived of before doesn't make it anything like actual game money.

[@nickrustyson8124]

Fuck GTA Vice City costed like 8 million, and sure a sizeable chunk of that is for the soundtrack, and some for the cast, but the budget would still be in the 6 million dollar range, and Vice City is pretty bare bones

[@MayaMint]

This. Even in 2010's money 500k is too low for a game with the scope they wanted. That kind of project would need at least a million or a total downsize of features.

[@inabeena8407]

The first red flag was the budget of 250K for the type of experience they were asking for and the year they were planning to spend on development. That barely would cover the costs of hiring a programmer, environment artist, and character artist. (This isn't even considering UI, VFX or QA and any non-labor costs of running a studio) Games are expensive to make! It makes sense how easily a studio can blow through half a million. Yogscast and the studio probably realized real quick how inexperienced they were for the task.

[@MiloKuroshiro]

A game like that would need so many people workign on it that 250k wouldnt pay 6 months of salaries

[@connordarvall8482]

I tried budgeting a game company as an exercise and realised to create a small game, a cheap greenhorne professional would cost $100,000 to hire for 2 years. A game this ambitious would take somewhere between 5-7 years to make. Get a team of 20 and suddenly your game costs $1,000,000 a year. If sold at the price of a AAA game, over 100,000 copies would have to be sold on average to break even on employment costs and that's not taking equipment, office space, the advertising budget and the other costs of running a company into account.

[@LikaLaruku]

I'm not sure if the budget was the first flag or "MMO + First game we ever made" was.

[@MarcHendry]

yeah you'd think they would have googled how much games cost to make before starting a studio lol it's crazy when experienced people even have this lack of foresight

[@inabeena8407]

@@connordarvall8482 Absolutely! The game development pipeline and costs are pretty unknown to most gamers I think, so they wouldn’t even realize their Kickstarter goal is a 🚩🚩🚩 If I had a dime for every time I saw someone on a gamedev forum looking for people to help them with their “post-apocalyptic, survival, open-world FPS sandbox experience with crafting mechanics game” it would fund a game itself lol

[@ssgohan296]

I can't believe anyone was naive enough to think $500k is enough to make a full fledged open world video game, let alone $250k. That's a laughably small amount of money for anything even approaching that scope. It wouldn't even be enough for a decent salary for 10 people for a year.

[@rootyful]

Was about to comment exactly this.

[@nemjef121]

Damn if $50k isn't a decent salary then I am immensely underpaid as a professional game artist

[@mcgfn]

Anyone who wants to make a game needs to understand that you legitimately need close to a million dollars just to make what you envisioned

[@LikaLaruku]

Is it even possible to make for for less than a million, unless it's done in Unreal, RPG Maker, or Unity?

[@sethk5396]

Exactly this. It really reads like a very young fan who doesn't understand how money works lol. And yet that's what the team of adults promised. It's weird too, because with the level of interest in the project they could have just gotten a publisher. But it was a vanity project, like a lot of failed kickstarters that promise way too much tend to be.

[@outerzevin1366]

I was prepared to become a the world's greatest Yogsventures KZbinr but those plans turned to ashes in my mouth...

[@gingermaniac5484]

Piss off with your scam spam, back to the darkness from whence you came shame on your family I curse thee to a warm pillow every hot sweaty night and weird clicking distracting in the back of your head every time you walk uphill

[@exammole4545]

@Don't Read My Profile Photo Oh my god shut up

[@EvTheBadConlanger]

@Don't Read My Profile Photo Sure. I won’t.

[@pyrofur_nx]

@Don't Read My Profile Photo ok ig lol

[@maddy8328]

I had a stroke reading this

[@TheRealSplexy]

Word of advice: Be skeptical of youtuber movies, games and music. Its usually just done out of a momentary high and not because they know what they're doing.

[@xandermin]

true! i'm very familiar with the pr management industry, & a lot of the time it's agents & managers pushing online celebrities to take on as many projects as possible cos the more money the talent makes, the more money the agent makes.

[@EricE549]

@@xandermin i know a bit about that from people on twitter talking about it, and i agree that generally the artists are not fully in control of the major projects they take part in. if being fully independent was sustainable i would _highly_ encourage artists to go that route, because the industry is a creatively bankrupt wasteland that deserves to be reformed in some way.

[@teffley2766]

Well said.

[@0b13F4st3]

Very good advice.

[@valletas]

Many of them are praised by fans... Only for years later people look back and say "oh yeah that was really bad" Like the AVGN movie or every movie doug walker has made (with the only exeption being the review must go on)

[@ArekusaSan]

They were absolutely the world’s first DSMP. I was there for the announcement and pretty excited, even though I hadn’t been into Minceraft as heavily as I was back in 2011. Between Yogscast, Captainsparklez, and Hat Films (who I swear to god I was one of the only mega fans at the time), 2010-2012 Minceraft was a magical time to be alive. Oh, and if current DSMP fans seem cringey as hell, let it be known that I was drawing fanart and made an entire Hunger Games themed story in my head where people were forced to survive in the MC world, and I also had a self-insert who was powerful and could turn into a bird humanoid. I never posted my art, but I still have it, and it goes to show that everyone goes through their cringe phase and that’s okay.

[@solarprogeny6736]

What about LdShadowlady, Joey Graceffa, Stacyplays, Smallishbeans, Seapeekay, Shubble, etc? They were doing everything DSMP and Hermitcraft does at least 7 years earlier, yet they get snubbed

[@ArekusaSan]

@@solarprogeny6736 I have no clue who those people are. If they became prominent after 2012 then I won’t know em. I was only into Mimecraft for like a year tops

[@Gigi-q5t1o]

@@solarprogeny6736 omg finally someone who remembers them, I remember watching their videos around 2016-18, it was a great time for me

[@aromanticfranziskavonkarma]

@@solarprogeny6736 OH MY GOD STACYPLAYS!!!! i vividly remember crying my eyes out to my mom when her mermaid mod series with amylee33 ended

[@jolynejoestar2106]

@@solarprogeny6736 hermitcraft started in 2012 tho

[@M-Soares]

"Half a million dollars. That's 'hire whoever you need' money" LMAO people really have no idea how much game development costs, huh?

[@WhatEverComesToMlnd]

"How hard can it be, just hire 5 guys and thats it right? I could probably make a game with half the money!". Maybe those people think that game development takes a year max? Like sure, you can pay a few people for about a year, but then what? Also 35.000$ for a full time programmer sounds like very little money. I know that the video game industry usually pays less than other IT branches, but still.

[@draculactica]

i love that "scammy/over-ambitious crowd-funded MMO vaporware produced by ppl who've never made a game" has become just, like, a genre of thing

[@0uttaS1TE]

Shout out to that one time BBC Radio One played Diggy Diggy Hole. That felt like a decent indicator of popularity at least by 2013-14 standards

[@antichrist1975]

They did that?! That’s fucking gold lmao

[@nman551]

Holy..shit

[@briochie]

Half a million dollars is NOT "hire whoever you want money." That's, like, "hire like 5 full time senior devs for like a year" money. You want an industry veteran? They’re going to cost you more. A game that amount does not make without a lot, and I meant a LOT, of crunch.

[@malum9478]

you could probably get em for a year, but the sentiment is the same.

[@briochie]

@@malum9478 you’re totally right, I messed up the math in my head when I first made the comment lol. You could possibly hire up five senior devs for a year with that, unless they’re in like Seattle or San Fran, but if you want an industry veteran? They’re gonna come with a MUCH higher price tag.

[@MyDadIsBillGates]

500k for a senior dev? what u been smoking and can i have some?

[@briochie]

@@MyDadIsBillGates I already corrected that number in another comment lol.

[@briochie]

@@AJTheInvisibleGirl money isn’t all you need. You need to measure money, time, and scope. For that money, that short of time, and that big of scope? A buggy alpha is exactly what I expect.

[@CharlatanWonder]

dang, we went through an entire primer on the YOGSCast without bringing up SA or goon Shenanigans. Those were truly wild times on early KZbin.

[@paranormeow]

omg somethingawful… can’t believe I forgot

[@Radloveka]

Oh, it's you! The guy who's videos made me spend my vacation playing Deus ex

[@ConnorTheUndying]

@@paranormeow Oh I thought they meant something ENTIRELY different by SA.

[@mauve894]

@@ConnorTheUndying same💀

[@lobstersonskateboards3988]

@@ConnorTheUndying same ngl

[@hoboworldeater]

Your outfits, make-up, and hair styles is like half of the reason why I love your videos. Constantly amazed by how well it always is.

[@Zenocius]

Is that a garfield reference?

[@totoroFan]

I desperatly want to know where that amazing jellyfish shirt is from!

[@solarprogeny6736]

so only half is due to the actual substance and research 😅

[@wagenenr8140]

Honestly the no obligation thing sounds like something a lawyer would ask to be put in lol

[@spectre9340]

It was very much akin to "out of the goodness of my heart," to make it seem like they're being generous instead of doing the bare minimum

[@fudgeyman99]

Almost certainly what happened it's so out of place with the rest of the message.

[@AracheNerd]

While yes, it's a tragedy what happened with Winterkewl, the leadership and team absolutely was not experienced enough to take on a project like this. Making a game is absolutely costly and work-heavy, and I wouldn't wish that crunch on anyone. Glad Chris is doing better now.

[@waifowo]

yogscast being the dsmp of the early 2010s was such a bold take but so correct

[@Diamond1234]

I think the sad thing about this kickstarter is that they actually did mean to do the project and did their best and accidentally wasted half a million dollars. I wish them all luck, I wish you the best. This wasn't a scam and the fact that it failed so horribly is really sad.

[@LikaLaruku]

Yeah, it was never intended to be a rugpull scam where they either slapped something together in Unreal & hoped no one recognized the assets, or didn't make a game at all, take the money, & run. Same goes for the AVGN asking his fans to back Cheetahmen II. He wasn't making it himself, he put his own money into it, he expected a product, he got every bit as scammed as the other backers, & it hurt his reputation.

[@shytendeakatamanoir9740]

They were incredibly naive though. In hindsight, it was clearly doomed from the start. It's pretty easy to say that nowadays though, since we've seen many ambitious projects fail miserably (on the MMO side, New World's failure is still happening right now.).

[@algumnomeaihehe]

these are grown adults.

[@SaintxGlobal]

@@algumnomeaihehe like adults can’t make mistakes.

[@zacknattack]

@Hannah Smith weirdly comforting message

[@ARDERUUD]

What I'd love to see is a deep dive into whatever they've got going on in those Roblox cafe roleplay games. There is such a dedication to the positions and rules in those games re: the "staff" that I can't help but pop in just to properly order a single pastry while the user next to me threatens to file a lawsuit on a virtual boba tea shop with zero stakes. I need to know what compels these folks to go through an actual separate interview process, train up to be a SENIOR BARISTA meanwhile "customers" are often acting worse than they do irl, and all of it for free- nay, for FUN. It will weigh on my mind forever tbh

[@mchlle2121]

I used to play those years ago, and even made it up to higher rank levels in becoming COO of a cafe roleplay game... people would take their jobs very seriously there. They'd require us to fill out weekly forms evaluating different employees and yourself, and you'd have to constantly apply and interview to continue moving up the ranks. It probably had something to do with wanting to gain more power and respect cause higher ranks would get access to a few admin commands. At least that's what I can say for the "staff" on those games.

[@davidmurray3542]

People Make Games have a very good documentary on the problematic nature of Roblox, although it focuses on developer abuse rather than the games themselves.

[@sta._rina]

I remember one time being on one of those groups, making my way up to like "manager" or "interviewer" or something like that. i had even been put on the "employee of the month" podium thing outside the restaurant! whats important tho is that i had access to editing the group page. I was so intrigued, i clicked on the edit page and looked through everything, it felt surreal, until i accidentally deleted a group ally. i cant remember if i had fessed up or not but needless to say i was scolded and demoted. 9 year old me was very salty and promptly quit LMAO but on the other side of the spectrum as a customer i think these games can be fun. one time me and my online friends went to a rlly fancy restaurant. we all dressed up our avatars, sat at well modeled tables and ate well modeled food. i think part of the appeal for the dedication can be feeling like a grown up, having a sense of community, and having something to do on roblox lol. roleplaying is fun esp with games like boho salon where you do outfits but with simple cafe games, i dont rlly see the appeal in working there so intensely or even visiting to eat as a customer

[@jury76cyberpenguintv63]

that is literally also just starbucks in roblox but then it rebranded as frappe for copyright infringement. I would know, I was a senior barista there. you had to memorize the combinations like the real Starbucks but it's ROBLOX.

[@Spunro]

fr i dont understand how people spend months climbing ranks by working in a virtual cafe and enjoy it??

[@cathylatte741]

I think it would be really cool to dive into the digital 'pocket friend' craze of the early 2000s - Tamagotchi, Pixel Chix, Littlest Pet Shop digital pets - and how that whole craze of toys began. They were so popular and such an integral part of so many childhoods!

[@Pandurz]

And having their revival so it would totally be timely to drop this!!

[@greengrendel]

The Yogs definitely have learned from that experience, and are doing much better now in regards to games publishing, they've partnered with small devs and have published a total of 7 games, including Caveblazers and Helheim Hassle.

[@MazHem]

Caveblazers is pretty fun

[@user-Beans2017]

Good for them! =D

[@faimynth6030]

That's actually really cool to hear, i was wondering if something like this would have driven them out of the industry permantly so it's cool to hear they actually really learned from it.

[@JustKelso1993]

Never heard of them so they aren't doing that great😂

[@Zastier]

Ironic for Notch to make comments about "f-bombing kids" considering how he turned out the past couple years.

[@Planag7]

Recently what I was thinking

[@5xg378]

Eeh, i'd say there is a difference between saying fuck at minecon and on your social media years after ypu left the project. Tho in recent years im more inclined to believe the Yogcast just casually said fuck and only Notch made a big deal about it.

[@Zastier]

@@5xg378 Notch is a far right antisemite and got scrubbed from the brand lmfao. Way worse than casually swearing.

[@fern5505]

@@5xg378 maybe i’m misunderstanding you, but i don’t think they were saying that it’s bad that notch swears, they were saying it’s bad that notch is kinda a bad dude.

[@kenirainseeker539]

Notch never even heard/saw them doing any of that, it was all just hearsay.

[@uhhhhhhamelia]

i’ve literally never seen nor heard of yogventures but it looks so nostalgic..

[@sonicwave779]

Lots of similar projects were started around that time period.

[@uhhhhhhamelia]

@@sonicwave779 no i don’t mean nostalgic that way i mean like EXACTLY like something i’ve seen before

[@justine4581]

Maybe Minecraft song parody? There was a really popular one by them a while back by them called Diggy Diggy Hole and even Screw the Nether

[@amelianekomimi1936]

Gives me free realms vibes

[@doopclann3428]

@@justine4581 those sound so lame

[@user-nr8co9cn4r]

Wow what a throwback, I used to watch these guys all the time in like 2013-2015. I remember sometimes people would bring up the Yogventures stuff up on a stream and they'd always seem so damn embarrassed about the whole thing. If you ever want to do more videos on these guys, there was a recent scandal where several really big members got kicked out because of some sexual misconduct thing. I remember reading the accusations on Tumblr when they first were made way back when, and then hearing that the person actually got kicked out years later!

[@TeaUnicorn]

i don't think that'd be a very fun video, the shit sjin did was absolutely disgusting. i think a better followup video would be the drama they had around merchandise and paying their artists, which is a big reason a lot of their fanbase left them

[@thesadtoaster]

@@user-lk2qf4rt3m Sjin is no longer part of The Yogscast. He may have his own youtube channel, but in no way is he working under the company anymore, or with any of the people associated with The Yogscast. The investigation initially started with their Chief Executive Officer Turps, who ended up getting fired, after having worked for them since 2011. I can't imagine that it was an easy decision for them, as everyone at The Yogscast, at least to the public, appear to be friends. Though Lewis made the right decision, even if it wasn't an easy one.

[@user-nr8co9cn4r]

@@TeaUnicorn oh interesting! I haven't even heard of that. So crazy to think how much drama came from the group. And I totally believe it re: Sjin, not to mention how many people still supported him after it all came out. Such a shame. I didn't watch any of them at that point but remember scrolling down reddit + their youtube comments super disgusted.

[@thesadtoaster]

@@user-lk2qf4rt3m It's not, it's simply called Sjin. I'm unsure where you got that information, as simply looking him up on youtube will show that.

[@TeaUnicorn]

@@user-lk2qf4rt3m i think it was mostly a credit issue? as well as being underpaid. i think it resolved with a promise to do better but i dont think affected artists were compensated. im probably wrong though! its definitely worth a google!

[@Jastiriae]

Thanks for making this Izzy!! Its such a massive throwback seeing all of this again. I met my husband through the Yogs fandom, and moved overseas for him many years ago. Todays, wildly, our 5 year wedding anniversary! This video felt like a huge reminder of where our relationship started. I know this has nothing to do with the video, which was wonderfully put together and gave me a lot of nostalgia. The yogs have always been lovely at cons in my experience, though the fandom drama was something I've gladly left behind. Amazing work as always, this video made our day extra special with some reminiscing

[@Kryptidcreative]

You could dig into every kickstarter scam/scandal ever, and I wouldn't be bored. Love this shit.

[@doopclann3428]

Peachy Printer

[@lenaboyer6981]

If you like these types of stories you might already know Josh Strife Hayes, but he’s got some great videos on kickstarter MMO failures/scams!

[@YouW00t]

Man, imagine throwing your relationships in the bin, marriage included, over a Yogscast Minecraft clone... I feel bad for the guy.

[@nowandaround312]

I doubt it's as extreme as he described. There had to be other factors involved. Who gets a divorce just because their spouse spent extra time working for a few months?

[@mrziiz6893]

Well, I think it was that if he didn’t succeed, he’d be ruined financially. Contracts can be ruthless, and I bet he was stuck either choosing definite ruin or the slimmest chance to make it out without their life ruined. They just took the choice that gave them a chance.

[@mrziiz6893]

@@nowandaround312 Welcome to America, my friend.

[@KitKat-pz9hp]

I don't!

[@nowandaround312]

@@mrziiz6893 How is their nationality relevant? No one in a healthy, loving, stable relationship gets divorced just because one spouse had to do some extra work for a few months on a temporary project. That's not an American thing. There were other reasons they got divorced

[@starrats3767]

As someone who is incredibly well versed in the yogs and their incredibly vast/numerous scandals, dramas and scams this was a blast from the past to see in my feed tbh.

[@asturias0267]

What are some other scandals and scams that they've done?

[@starrats3767]

@@asturias0267 they've had numerous ex-members outed as sexual predators, one ex-member told a fan to kill themselves and he was kept on staff for years after that, another current member tried to dox a child, they've stolen art for merch before in the past and there's the matter of the fact that when the allegations against one of the predators they had on staff were brought to the guy in charge's attention he told the ppl concerned to "go fuck themselves"

[@galic6068]

.

[@anti-socialbunny]

@@asturias0267 like three of the members were fired or let go within a year due to SA accusations lol

[@lexiwth4444]

@@anti-socialbunny omg ?? i didn’t know this at all, who was it ?

[@kassie3271]

I donated 5 dollars to yogventures! My mom was so mad when we found out it failed. I can’t even imagine how mad she would be if we donated thousands of dollars!

[@therecognitionscene3771]

Do you think you would ever do like, makeup tutorial stuff on a side channel or something? Even a Patreon exclusive thing; I’d probably pay for that. You always look incredibly cool and like. I want to learn about this stuff but never had anyone in my life to show me how. I love the shade of blue and how sparkly you are in this one!!

[@DemiseReturns]

I've seen smaller scale teams pull off really cool feats. FeralHeart Unleashed is made entirely by volunteers. However, MMOs are something that should only be made by sizeable companies with PLENTY of budget AND experience. Asking a random indie dev "hey let's make a huge online multiplayer sandbox" girl it ain't happening

[@davidmurray3542]

I feel like "scam" is kinda harsh. The Yogscast themselves (particularly Lewis) still bear a huge amount of guilt over how it turned out, and from what I understand it was primarily a problem of naivety on their part and overambition on the part of the developers.

[@JACpotatos]

I'm personally curious what happened to the $150,000. I guarantee that wasn't all spent sending out backer rewards

[@origami_dream]

They *should* have guilt, though. It's the appropriate response when you take a buncha peoples' money and don't give them what you promised them. Doesn't mean it's not a scam; just means they're not psychopaths. I don't know that i'd use the word "scam" but i'd agree it's "kinda harsh." But... being kinda harsh is the appropriate response when someone's taken a buncha peoples' money and not given them what they promised.

[@itsjustmaddisen]

@@JACpotatos Cocaine.

[@ComicCrossing]

@@JACpotatos Well Im sure they had to pay TUG something for replacement keys. Likely a lot of it went there. Well thats sorta being generous and assuming everything was above board and it was used appropriatley. If they did send out physical rewards it still wouldve cost a lot of money to make and ship that stuff.

[@LawrenceMiles1972]

"What they'd made was slow, buggy, and couldn't really be used to make anything interesting." It was inspired by Minecraft, but... they didn't figure out in advance how the environment would work? That's like opening a Lego factory and then, months later, realising the bricks should probably have studs.

[@MiloKuroshiro]

I'm glad that I saw the red flags in their first annoucement video and game demo, even If i was a big fan of their content at the time. It was pretty obvious that the game was too ambitious and the devs had no experience at all. It was an amateur studio that had no idea how to manage development and most devs werent even full time! Managing a game and a studio is no joke

[@EricE549]

as someone in the comments of that "science-based, 100% dragon MMO" post said: If this is the first game you've ever made, I'm begging you, don't go straight for the MMO. Take a little sub-section of your game, a minigame if you will, and build just that, as a single player game. You'll learn so much you didn't even know you needed to know. this is definitely one of those cases where being overtly ambitious slowly kills a project. if i was a type designer and wanted to make a very technical font family that comes in sans, serif, and mono, i probably wouldn't get very far if i didn't have at least some sort of practice.

[@merefinl6914]

I work at a game studio and for perspective 1 photoshopped background with some paint work over top costs the client $1500. That's to cover the payment of everyone involved in every step of getting that asset made and also makes the studio a profit. So many of these kickstarter campaigns have impossible budgets, and most people have no frame of reference to know if they're realistic or not. It's really too bad because I remember being a huge Yogscast fan, and I even remember seeing them post about their new game. Thank you for the throwback!

[@ForeverTraitor]

I still love watching the Yogscast main channel. The real travesty isn't Yogventurers, but that Shadow of Israphel will never have an ending.

[@nman551]

Yeah that sucks cause you know it’s why I lot of people watched them couldn’t agree more aqua

[@scribbletoby]

Speaking of kickstarter scandals... Izzy I would love to see you cover Furcadia's kickstarter / the game in general! It had almost 300k$ donated for alleged massive updates but very minimal updates have happened compared to what was promised. (Their website still proudly touts the Successful Kickstarter Badge an underpaid artist probably made for them.) The game itself is rife with enough drama and history (it's over 20 years old) it'd take a while to research, but the people who own/run the game are basically conartists and have relegated all of the game's artists / design team to churning out pay-to-own/pay-to-use avatars instead of the updates they promised. (The game used to have thousands of people on it back in the early to mid 2000s but is down to an average of 500 players online per day, with any % of that being alternate characters or bots.) It also has almost 0 in-game moderation and wholly requires on parental supervision/intervention to prevent minors from accessing adult maps. Sorry for the paragraph and thanks for your time!

[@greyscaleanatomy3529]

Omg I used to play Furcadia! Was actually thinking about it the other day. I remember really wanting a pair of wings as a kid haha.

[@LikaLaruku]

Haven't played it since 2002, but I'd be interested to hear it.

[@hellbreakfast]

Would also like to hear about it. I met the creator ~2010 either at FWA or Anthrocon, when he was doing a panel about furry games with some other devs. I didn't think of him poorly, but was warned not to work with him as an artist.

[@RealQwerty1998]

Rip my 13th birthday money… I really don’t blame the yogscast it sounds like they got roped into doing marketing for a company that had no business approaching them to make such an ambitious game and the yogscast were dumb for agreeing to put their names on the project, all in all it was a good learning experience for middle school me and I never kickstarted another game because they always end in disappointment, the lesson saved me a lot of money since 2 of my friends spent multiple paychecks each backing star citizen in our senior year of high school but I had already learned my lesson and saved my money

[@crypticcorvid]

I thought Star Citizen actually released though?

[@RealQwerty1998]

@@crypticcorvid I mean it “released” but it doesn’t have all the promised features and doesn’t look like the insanely complex game they said it would become and both of these dudes put over $1000 into the game and neither of them play it because it took like 6 years to get to a playable point and it’s still super disappointing compared to what they were promised all those years ago

[@WannabeMarysue]

This is a shame. A lot of kickstarter games are great. Undertale was a kickstarter game. I spent money on Double Fine Adventure (Broken Age) and Yooka Layle, two games which got kind of bad reviews, but I don't regret it. I played both, and yanno they were alright. Worth the money (which I didn't spend much of) even. Just don't get hyped into overspending. Give devs a little spending money, don't break your own bank. Don't spend a whole paycheck on a kickstarter, spend a tenner. A ten bucks here and there on a kickstarter never backfires, because the worst case scenario is losing ten bucks. Back kickstarters and support indie artists. Well, don't back kickstarters anymore because of the blockchain shit the company is pulling. Back indiegogos and other crowdfunders and support indie artists, though.

[@RealQwerty1998]

@@WannabeMarysue yea you make a good point mr. Piss piss piss piss, it’s not that kickstarters themselves are always greedy jerks so just spend responsibily, I was an indie developer for a bit just make sure you don’t ever spend an amount that gives you a high Expectation of the product

[@SinglExplosiv]

i dont fund kickstarters anymore but when i did i always went in with the assumption that, at best the project is delayed by at least a year, and worst is abandoned. fortunately everything i backed came out eventually, but its always a big risk funding those projects. my best luck was projects that were already finished or close to finished, and just needed funding for distribution and such

[@asherwasher_]

I actually watched them as a kid and didn't know this happened wow I live under a rock

[@tailsknuxfan101]

You could say... that the Yogscast had a rough transition into 3D.

[@10kwithzerobitches20]

Ever since yogcast 2006 they havent been doing well

[@nman551]

NO NOT THAT MEME

[@willow3198]

THANK YOU for talking about this!!! I feel like NO ONE knows who the yogscast is anymore or have heard of the yogventures drama!!!

[@lucialovecraft]

I only ever heard of Yogscast but not this drama

[@rehreh92]

I was hugely into minecraft youtube in the 2010s and I’m so surprised I had no idea who the yogscast was

[@eldritchmoon3771]

your cat (assuming thats yours) is adorable :) love torties

[@flamepelt3092]

Your cat is cute, pet her for me.

[@willow3198]

thank you all who like my cat her name is molly 🥺

[@televisionplayback]

I remember during the earlier days of Yogscast, their message board was taking off and a moderator on their staff began acting very rudely to forum members. They basically ran amok and abused their rights, but it took a TON of complaining for Simon and Lewis to do anything about it. A little while later I heard about the Yogventures scandal and thought, "Well that's basically in line with everything else about them."

[@davidvasey5065]

They really haven't had that many controversies at all tbh

[@SSGErnestP]

Notch being an uncouth prick? Hang on, I have to find my surprised hat.

[@clarksterjnr]

Is it a surprised fedora?

[@estherstreet4582]

honestly this is the most interesting part of this video. Notch still had a lot of internet goodwill at the time, how did he get away with slagging off some popular youtubers?

[@Jonasansu]

I have worked in game dev, my first few jobs out of college were in game programming until I switched industries and I still do game jams with friends. It is so funny to me that so many of these people think they can jump into the industry with MMOs. There is a reason MMOs are called the final boss of game development and only a handful of the most talented AAAs like square or blizzard or insanely talented smaller companies like CCP are successful with them. The history of modern game development is full of the corpses of MMOs that never even launched. Those that do launch are rarely successful games that make back their money.

[@bucca2]

I grew up watching the Yogscast, and I still follow their tiktok account. Lewis and Simon are greying and look tired sometimes, but they’re still running a pretty successful media company, and it’s nice to see they’re still themselves. I never knew what the whole Yogventures thing was about because they rarely mentioned it and treated it like a dirty word, but credit where credit’s due: there is no dream SMP without the yogscast, and the resurgence of Minecraft’s popularity is due in part to creators like RTGame, who was inspired by the yogscast.

[@unorthodoxic4691]

Their original goal was 250k? That's not *nearly* enough to fund a game of this scale and ambition! Even with 500k, they'd need cash in the millions to even think about producing something on the level of Minecraft, especially with the style they were going for. Minecraft's style was built to be easier to create for. Their detail oriented, heavily stylized game would take forever to create for.

[@sophaphopha]

I love Izzzyzzz educating me on internet phenomenons I never paid attention to or was even aware of. Keep teaching queen, I am learning so much :)

[@No.1-Yellow-Wood-Sorrel-Fan]

As someone who’s been a fan of the Yogsacast for half my life, I still view this situation as both parties bitting off more than they could chew. They aimed for the moon and instead just tripped and fell down the stairs. I feel nothing but pity for everyone involved.

[@DeadMech1]

Forgot to hold space to slow down.

[@Lucy-uf6oi]

they're full grown adults. if you promise a product and collect almost 600k dollars you deliver the product.

[@theresemellum9567]

You should look into the Nancy Drew PC games and HerInteractive. They had a successful, well known company for 20 years, producing 2 point and click games per year to a fairly loyal fan base. Then in the mid 2010’s, they dropped their staple voice actor, went through major changes in staff, stated they were transitioning to 3D and essentially went silent for 4 years. When they did finally come out with something it was messy and buggy.

[@dqckie]

so happy to see this title omg. first video i ever watched on youtube was a hatfilms shatblock video, and i moved onto yoglabs and watched yogscast content religiously. my little 7 year old self is screaming

[@1800Hernandez]

This project had all of the same red flags that All or Nothing did, with the people behind the project making promises that they could never realistically keep, and wanting to make something on such a big scale despite having no experience and having no idea what they were doing. Everyone involved with Yogventures was in way over their heads, and it should've been obvious to everyone who chose to back it that this game was never going to happen.

[@AnnaMorgause]

Absolutely blew my mind to hear that comment that was like “500k is hire whoever you want money”. Like…. Dude. Do you not understand how expensive video games are to make????

[@TeaUnicorn]

so wild when the video is about something you were actually there for. i was an avid yogscast fan and i remember the original game reveal video and being excited. years later i was like huh now that i think about it, whatever happened to that game?? it was so easy to forget about if you weren't a backer LOL

[@ChibuJester]

Is it me, or is there a lot of people who go though divorces cause they get too busy working on their kickstarter?

[@yungoldman2823]

Maybe doomed to fail kickstarter projects are that way because theyre all lead by the kind of person who would divorce their wife over a kickstarter

[@Vault_69]

Kickstarter is the new leader cause of divorce it seems

[@Phasma]

Yeah I don't know what goes through your head to put work above your life partner, that is just... Not what you do

[@Amber-py5ts]

While this idea would make logical sense I don’t think this is what happens in practice. We don’t know the developer personally besides what we know through their posts so I think its unfair to make this assumption. In reality this precedent of development periods creating tension in relationships is quite common, for example it happened during the development of the Iphone, many employees personal lives were destroyed by the development process. Most of these people are just regular workers I’d argue divorce in this context isn’t entirely caused by some sort of personal failing on the behalf of an overworked developer but by the addition of other factors, namely how society encourages people to forego their work-life balance to achieve success in their field. This idea is very powerful in artistic & gaming communities where crunch culture is still a huge issue. So it isn’t surprising that even an indie developer which has little to no obligation to a boss can still feel the pressure to crunch themselves. The developer in question almost certainly bit off more than they can chew and put in their best effort. I don’t think it’s fair to bring up the divorce in this disscussion it just comes off as inappropriate.

[@teaveins1466]

I backed this project back in the day and I think they made it up to us quite well, we got free keys for Everquest Pathfinder, Delver and IIRC Magicite, all games I got good mileage out of

[@Rein377]

I feel really sorry for the guy who lost his wife to this situation. Glad he's still working in the industry, maybe he can still go on to make great things, just with better budgeting and less unfounded ambitions.

[@solssun]

It was a mistake, Yogscast were the first Minecraft KZbinrs & were thrown into fame from being two obscure nerds (I say that endearingly). They couldn't have known the Hollywood studio were as incompetent as they were, I'm sure I'd probably believe they could do it If I were Yogs in that situation. If you put money into a Kickstart you need to accept the project might never happen

[@Cheapducky]

Actually they were pretty late adopters by 2011 standards. Prior to the late summer of that year, the big channels were Haat Films, SeaNanners, Deadmau5 (Yes, that one), and Bebop Vox.

[@algumnomeaihehe]

imagine blaming the devs here

[@Cheapducky]

@@algumnomeaihehe Considering one of the main devs was found to have used $30k of the backer funds to buy themselves a new car, I don't think their hands are clean

[@dizzypro4974]

@@Cheapducky the Yogscast main channel's first MC video was 2 months before Hat Films' first MC video, 20 days before Deadmau5's first MC video (that I can find), and a month before Bebop Vox's first MC video. The only person listed here that uploaded Minecraft before Lewis and Simon was SeaNanners who made a video on the game 4 months before them but I'd still consider all of these people in the first Minecraft KZbinrs (not to mention the fact that half of the channels you listed became part of the Yogscast later anyway)

[@Shmaples]

@@Cheapducky No.. just no.

[@the_internet_332]

If you were a newscaster, I'd check the weather 24/7 (prior I stopped here but i realized doing so sounded in a way I did not intend, so I'll add) because you have great energy, a soothing voice, and excellent fashion sense. :)

[@nephraret542]

Bro I get so fucking happy when you upload

[@user-pn4yo7mr4q]

Me too love this channel

[@dwitefry4157]

This was on my mental list of 'Things Izzzyzzz shouuld cover' - you style of covering things just makes it very easy for me understand it all you seee - so cheers!

[@senpaigutz]

God, I love your videos! They've become a default of mine to watch no matter what I'm doing! From drawing, playing a game, and even combing out a wig! Your content is always so interesting and I am here for it. Hey, have you thought of covering SnowTheSaltQueen? They became pretty infamous in the Danganronpa community and although there is definitely other videos covering it, I'd love to see one from you!

[@peachmango5784]

I love how eye-catching your makeup is in every video! It actually helps me pay attention because theirs always something cool to look at even when you don't have pictures on the screen.

[@kc4697]

To the youngin's who have never watched the yogacast, their influence on minecraft KZbin cannot be overstated. The yogscast walked so dreamsmp could run

[@nman551]

Their videos were pretty fun but I fell off from their stuff years ago

[@classicforreal]

12:55 the "we're under no obligation thing" is literally the reason nobody trusts Kickstarters and crowdfunding anymore

[@Shenkkazoo]

I was a TUG backer, and remember thinking how nice it was that the Yogventures backers would still get a completed game in the end… It’s funny to think about in retrospect lmao

[@river2307]

oh god i was obsessed w the yogscast when i was a kid its so crazy to see someone talking about them now !! this unlocked so much Deep Lore in my brain

[@geeshta]

The person saying half a mil dollars is "hire whoever you need money" has no idea

[@Ky-U]

One of the things i look forward too in your vids is your makeup. Its always so interesting and unique. Im a dude and normally dont give two hells about makeup but yours is always so amazing to see. Its great.

[@ryansnow8359]

The only time I've heard of yogscast before this was the collab they did with the game grumps. Had no idea this disaster was a thing. Thanks for another amaze deep dive! (Sidebar: my cringe jacket sent me an "omw" email and I'm so excited. 😍)

[@retropuppie]

another banger as usual, I actually had no idea this even happened. I've been watching for months and you're currently one of my favourite creators rn :D I'm always excited to see another video by you! You always look amazing too :DD

[@justafossil]

God I remember when this all happened. I think the whole "we can do it better" attitude while also not having any idea what they were doing (500k is a pittance for game dev, nevermind the initial 250k goal and the miniscule turnaround expectations for when a beta would be playable) was what turned me off following the yogs back then. On the subject of tumultuous kickstarter indie game projects, covering something like Day of Dragons or even that whole trend of relatively open-world immersive indie projects as a weird overarching thing on crowdfunding might make a good vid ahaha.

[@davidmurray3542]

To be honest, the original Minecraft started as a hobby project and succeeded - despite Notch's inexperience in programming and software design - because of its compelling sandbox gameplay which exploded in popularity (in part due to KZbinrs like the Yogscast). There's a good reason the game was rewritten from the ground up when Microsoft got involved 🤣

[@winterfox5]

Thanks for making this! I'd been watching the Yogs since that first SoI episode. I had stopped watching sometime after the Yogventure announcement but before it fell apart and by the time I returned it was only ever brought up as a joke or bit. Really interesting to see what actually happened in that mean time, and I'm glad that developer seems to have recovered from the disaster. Good video!

[@castlesteinway7741]

Hey izzy, could you do a video about Furcadia? That was my mmorpg of choice back in middle school and i always thought the "build your own little world for people to visit" aspect was so interesting. The players ended up building 90% of the areas you could go. I miss it

[@ojomaze7777]

Another interesting point I'd like to add is how the Yogscast has in more recent times become a game publisher, having helped multiple indie studios get off the ground (on top of many of the yogs also giving the game a go on their streams and whatnot). One of my favorite games from them so far is PlateUp. It's honestly just Overcooked, but rougelike and better.

[@RedSntDK]

It turns out that it's a lot easier to get games made by passionate people with a vision for the game they want to make instead of just forcing a project through by throwing money at it. And I'm glad they've gone that route.

[@wacky_shuck]

Another Amazing Video from one of my favorite creators

[@wingedlionn]

watching this and forgetting that area 11 were so heavily involved with the yogscast and then getting jumpscared by parv and sparkles* on the list of members, then forgetting again, and 5 minutes later hearing the euphemia intro (yogscast outro), never went through so many raw emotions in such a short period before

[@enio9477]

First rule of gamedev (learned a hard way by an indie developer): never announce you're creating a game before you have AT LEAST a complete gamedesign documentation + some basic, primitive gameplay ready. Also, start small. Their idea is an example of typical "this is my first videogame and it's gonna be so gooood!!!". It's always open world, always RPG or something like that... And it never happens.

[@makokx7063]

Dunning-Kruger effect. I have been drawing for so long in my life that I know for a fact that whatever I make is going to be absolute garbage lol

[@hesherette]

you always look awesome but the dark hair + the blue makeup looks are extra incredible! this story was such a wild ride. i remember the game but not all the drama, thanks for the great deep dive as usual :)

[@stadiumseating]

this was my first and last kickstarter ive ever backed, and it stopped me from watching the yogs for a while. fascinating to hear the whole story years later!

[@Lumindir]

This unlocked a childhood memory… being a huge fan of the Yogscast when I was a kid, I was so hyped for this game.

[@ZMike38]

"half a million dollars, that's 'hire whoever you need' money!" holy shit, if there's one good thing from the kickstarter fail era, it's that people have a slightly better idea of what these things cost to make. and that scoping/pricing should be left in the hands of veteran producers.

[@sohzi5649]

It’s so impressive how quickly you come out with great and well-researched content

[@TwisterMayne]

It's crazy to hear about the extended side of Internet moments throughout the years from these videos. Like I'm 22 now, but I was completely unaware that this was even a thing, I even remember watching the Kickstarter video and had no clue what ever became of it. The nostalgia door that you opened was insane

[@AndromedaD]

Every hard lesson I learned about fandom, I learned from the Yogscast. Nilesy had a really great take on named fanbases, I think, that absolutely holds to this day. Why did people sink so much money into this? Why were allegations against certain members ignored for so long? Because we were Dave Exclamation Mark Yognaut, and we had the balls. When you don't have a lot else to define your identity by, like most young people don't, fandom can kind of take over who you are. It's hard to hear criticism of the thing you like, because it's hard to separate that from criticism of yourself. Echo chambers form, an in group/out group mindset develops, and fan spaces can get super toxic. That said, the Yognauts did a lot of good too, the holiday charity streams were always a ton of fun (except for that time they read a fan fic on steam and mocked it so much people had to start putting disclaimers on their work that they were not allowed to be read on stream like that. Like, don't do that. People use fan fic as a way to explore their identity and traumas, or write the kind of representation they don't get to see in pop culture, don't go mock it, what's wrong with you?) and usually raised a ton of money for a number of good causes.

[@doopclann3428]

This sounds tiring

[@AndromedaD]

@aaa Joke would have worked better if you'd said the Creeper instead of pickaxe.

[@caramel9154]

man why are people being such dicks in the thread here? dude just pointed out some observations on something they seemed to be into as a kiddo. kinda gives insight into how fandoms work and how to treat diehard fans more effectively in social situations if we ever come to that disagreement

[@34656enjhuuo]

I think people have the right to make fun of fanfiction that was written about them, likely without permission lol.

[@dizzypro4974]

I don't wanna be be mean about stuff made by kids but making fanfiction about real people is something you should expect to be mocked about, it's super weird to me

[@TheYambo121]

I still can't forgive them for never finishing Shadow of Israphel. I got in so much trouble for using up all the monthly internet allowance of the whole household in like 2 days bingewatching that series.

[@nman551]

Yeah I was so excited for the ending but it’s just never gonna be finished

[@jdmhbeats]

They are just humans. Life happens. Make your own life

[@boxspringzzz]

i would LOVE if you covered animation meme community stuff, or petpet park :0 !!! also, idk if u have seen goatlings but i think you would love it!!! it’s neopets but with only goats, the artwork is really cute and i love it

[@euoplo1007]

love your style btw, always nice to see people doing their own thing with looks

[@euoplo1007]

@bowen voowy uh why?

[@Dojan5]

Hahahaha. People thinking that $500k is a lot in software development terms. $500k is NOTHING. "Hire whoever you need money" my arse.

[@melasnexperience]

I had heard of Yogventures as one of the earlier examples of a video game Kickstarter that turned out to be a big mess that never delivered, but I didn't know it was an actual example of "We're gonna go make our own Minecraft!"

[@evamiller4886]

That was a mess, but I agree “scam” isn’t the right word for it.

[@hygiei]

many years ago, like... before this kickstarter even launched, someone commissioned me to draw the yogscast dudes. and they actually ended up being one of the only people ive worked with to never pay up once receiving the watermarked preview image, so i guess what I'm saying is what goes around comes around lol

[@yaggerdamn781]

i feel so bad for the lead developer, but im glad he was able to get back on the horse eventually!

[@babyandtheblues]

that one big tear drop in your makeup looks so 3D! that’s sick! great job i always love your makeup! 🖤🖤

[@fIorapetals]

Wow. I guess Minecraft has always been a place for chaos and drama huh? This isn't quite related, but it would be so fun if you would make a video talking about the history of fangans (Danganronpa fanfiction, Instagram stories, KZbin series, and fangames) or just talking about one you particularly like if any!

[@Cheapducky]

Yeah. Its definitely gotten a lot less chaotic and drama filled in recent years, but the 2010-2012 era was freaking nuts

[@confused5804]

As someone who used to want to make a fangan (and half still wants to), I think it would be really interesting.

[@eldrichnemo9312]

I never got into Danganronpa but I was a member of the SA forums when an ongoing LP suddenly got paywalled in the middle of it, leading to a a ton of drama and even someone cosplaying as the SA paywall webpage at a big Danganronpa cosplay event

[@nvexe8822]

I did a presentation on that for uni. I can link it if you want although it focused more on 2017-2020

[@spyscout7]

Watching this and your other Kickstarter scam video got me thinking about my favorite Tumblr Kickstarter scam. The ghost-oaks clown body pillow scam. I vaguely remember watching it happen live. He had made desperate updates on Kickstarter to just try to get people to shut up about it. He also kept trying to tell people he hadn't spent the ~$6000 on himself. (There was of course evidence of him spending the money) I know it's not as big of a scandal, but it is something I'll never forget about from my prime time on Tumblr.