500% Efficient Heat Pumps - Are They Real?

[@jacko101]

I'd only have one if you install it. 😄

[@aidandillon9520]

Me too! 😊

[@elslopez]

Same

[@CommercialGasEngineerVideos]

Hear hear, that's a good shout. Unless you get the right installer like our good friend, then there's hardly any point.

[@neilbissett1240]

And me too great video mate 👏😎

[@tomroguk]

100% agree, would totally take one on just heard too many horror stories of bad installs!

[@Ben-gm9lo]

You sir, are an artisan of your trade. I absolutely love your content and never miss a video. This one in particular was ace. Professionals and pioneers like you are making our human inhabitation of this precious planet a bit safer day by day, little by little.

[@TuubiMun]

even his copper is extra shiny...

[@EB1156]

I live in the Northwest of the USA and am installing a heat pump and underfloor heating, partially based on your and other's experiences. None of my friends/ colleagues understand why or what I'm talking about because what we see here are mostly forced-air furnaces or, less often, air-to-air heat pump systems. I just wanted to say thank you and keep the heat pump content coming. Eric

[@goldenretriever6261]

Washington? Not that cold in the winter. Not sure these systems will work in places like Montana or Wyoming without back up heat.

[@calmeilles]

@@goldenretriever6261 Worth searching for examples here and elsewhere because there are people for whom they have worked. I think Alec of Technology Connections said that his system functioned in the -20°F arctic blast, possible on his side channel. But certainly it is necessary to know the limitations of a system and under what conditions alternate heat would be required.

[@ram64man]

I have a heat split in buffalo ny insulation is key far higher than regulations us key , r30 minimum and insulate the external connected wall as well , the underfloor and main house all 1900 didn’t cope with 14f and needed supplementary support, the annex with modern insulation runs s dankin air to air 16kwh air to air is the best way to go in my experience heating 2600 ft property we have no removed the air to water system completely and gone for a 55000 btu Bosch tankless heater , and had no issues keeping it at 75f yet still keep the air to air heat pump as that has been brilliant

[@rogerphelps9939]

Anyrhing that burns fossil fuels for heat will be banned eventually.

[@razvanlex]

@@goldenretriever6261 These systems work in Norway, Sweden and Denmark since the '80's and before. If the temperature drops many degreed below zero they all have back-up electric heat. I'm using one heat pump for my house that has a gas boiler for back-up (and for DHW) and the vacation house has also a heat pump but with an electric boiler as back-up. I love in Romania and two weeks ago it was -14°C. The total cost for one heat pump was 2.700 EUR, installation included.

[@limeparallelogram7221]

I’ll be really honest here, I always used to think of plumbing as kind of un unskilled / boring labour job but you and your videos have single handedly changed my mind. The quality, care and talent you display in these videos is so evident it’s inspirational - so much so that as someone who is currently studying computer science at university, I’m considering spending a few years installing heat pumps after I graduate. It’s something that I feel is such an important part of the decarbonisation process and there aren’t enough installers like you. ❤️

[@Tim_Small]

After you do that, use your software engineering skills to create some software to help out the rest of the heat pump industry...

[@m0aze611]

I’m not a sceptic but like most do my homework, at my age I want comfort and as a bonus save a bit at the same time. We are il informed and lack data for our own homes. I can only do a few of the things you’ve done and my EPC is already at C and it needs more loft insulation. My boiler will need replacing in the next few years and I;m already preparing for a ASHP. It’s not about ROI as I’m too old. Great vid thanks Mike

[@richardcorns8553]

Always love your videos, and find them a great way to understand how heatpumps work. We've had our Viessmann 150a 10kw heatpump installed since end of October last year and we're over the moon with its performance. Currently its 4c outside and the pump is pulling 1.04kw to provide 5.43kw heat. Flow temp at 33.7c UFH throughout. 22c temperature in the house. Very cosy.

[@zyks4628]

Agreed. I had a Viessmann 151 10kw heatpump installed last May and have been delighted with it. System SCOP to date 4.6. Heating SCOP 5.1, DHW 3.6. Currently 5C outside, flow temp is 29C and house at 22C!

[@JOOI525]

Great example of doing it the correct way around. Lesson to everyone has to be 'do the basics first', - improve a homes insulation. I like many others get great pleasure and inspiration from watching crafts people at work. I know it takes a lot of effort to put the videos together, but it is appreciated.

[@TomTomicMic]

Improve the homes insulation by fitting 50mm foam and plasterboard internally to external walls (As well as loft insulation and double glazing) and your bills will be half anyway £6k cost, it's not worth doing the heat pump/ solar/ battery malarkey as it's not economical in a 10 to 15 year span (It's lifetime!) cost £23k!?!

[@UrbanPlumbers]

@TomTomicMic internal wall insulation can be very tricky. Most builders just do dot and dab which is a recipe for a disaster. Correctly done IWA without leaving any air gaps between insulation and the wall is tricky, expensive and very few builders know how to do it correctly.

[@MG-qo5ge]

You are quite right 10/ 12 years ago I had a system specified by others and it came with a non inverter 8.2kW air water heat pump with no weather compensation ...a bit of a disaster the unit kept cycling and COP never got much better than 3.4, I have now after testing and gone back to basics and come up with a figure of 3.4 kW to heat the house to 21'C at -5 'C with modern refrigerants and DC drive compressor and fans I have found a heat pump that will cycle down to 800 W. the moral of this is do the sums right by an independent designer be careful with back of envelope design and figures by 'expert' sales people.

[@johnfreshwater3790]

Excellent video again. I am a huge fan of heat pumps and have one in my 200 sq metre 220 year old stone house and it's cheaper to run than the old oil boiler. But trying to convince people that they work is hard work and I have given up trying My house is also on radiators only a garden room has underfloor.

[@steveearley8352]

I’m always so impressed with the quality of the work. My little fizzy brain loves seeing how well explained it all is as well as how neat and tidy everything is. Sets such a high bar for everyone else!

[@UFZ7482]

I've just started my own self install of a Vaillant 7kw aroTHERM plus and am using some of your videos and tidiness as a benchmark!

[@michaelridley2864]

Wow, great presentation, agree with other comments that was an absolute masterclass, inspiring to those of us looking to go down a similar path. Even to a lay person, your plant room was a thing of beauty. Thankyou, and please more videos.

[@Neilhuny]

Yes! That plant room was fantastic!

[@terryrigden4860]

Very interesting we also had our Vaillant heat pump installed mid January. I'm getting reported COPs of 5+ on the App and didn't believe it, but as you are getting that from a proper heat meter I'm inclined to believe it now. I took careful note of all the pointers for good heat pump system design installation and set up from your previous videos and its paying off , THANK YOU! Since 17th of January we have only used 180Kwh and have been warmer and more comfortable. We are getting the bulk of our power at the cheap rate and about half the time we get through the day on battery power plus a bit from the solar panels which has cut our average heating cost to about £1 a day. I'm expecting to heat for free by the end of the month as solar production increases.

[@wajopek2679]

Nice job! Preparation is key to everything. Having space for a plant room is another.

[@Gazmaz]

That is my biggest issue with a change from our combi boiler to a heat pump. Space. :(

[@rolandrohde]

Thanks for providing these insightful videos! I also have the 5KW Vaillant system, but installed more "traditionally" with a small buffer and everything. My COP values are not that high usually, but the overall energy consumption looks good so far. If the trend continues we will end up with about 1500kWh of electricity for the first year, despite having more than one cold spell going all the way down to -13°C here in Germany. I am on the fence about asking my Installer for a quote on some changes to the system, since it likely won't be worthwhile...but I haven't ruled it out yet.

[@rabhaw2327]

Strange that the average 2 bed house uses around 2000 kWh a year without a heat pump?

[@rolandrohde]

@@rabhaw2327 The 1500kWh are just the heat pump

[@mmettania]

Congrats on the progress and finally getting your own heat pump.

[@UrbanPlumbers]

Thanks 👍

[@andrewdeans2179]

Thanks I have had a 8kw Ecodan heat pump installed. I calculated I only need 4kw and it’s showing 2.5 scop on hot water only . I got heat energy monitoring installed . I am looking forward To higher SCOP once the weather compensation sorted. I am encouraged by your videos and hope eventually to keep improving the system Cheers Andrew

[@johnburns4017]

Inside the garage on the wall between the garage and house, fix insulation. It is a large area. It all adds up. Easy and cheap to fit as well.

[@_Dougaldog]

Urban plumber has set this up as a showpiece to advertise his business, and the quality they offer. A showpiece backdrop for the videos. My Heat Pump paraphernalia is in a four foot square boiler cupboard, where the old boiler was removed from. Cylinder, volumiser (25l), expansion vessel, etc... Leaving the airing cupboard free for use. Two bedroom semi, moderate insulation.

[@johnburns4017]

@@_Dougaldog My point is _insulation._ there is a large area of wall that can be insulated very easily and cheaply. It will give a good bang for buck.

[@meterpoint]

Very nice! Ignoring the insulation for the underfloor heating and says "to heck with it - I'm going to make the floor slab sit at 22C instead of 15C" is an interesting approach. I guess when the floor doesn't need to be *that* warm to heat the building (as the heat loss is now low enough and in this case it's tiled rather than hiding under carpet or wood) you are not materially increasing the losses through the floor to the ground and indeed the uplift in COP rom having the underlfoor likley offsets those heat losses anyway. Wish I'd thought of that when renovating a property! Daft ideas: Would it have been feasible to series-feed the radiators and underfloor? Rads first; to benefit from higher flow temperatures; then the underflor to really drag down the return. Might allow rads to be downsized furhter (or run at a lower flow temp) Rads setup for a dP of say 15 kPa, in parallel with an auto-bpyass, feeding the underfloor circuit. Rads would be hotter / more responsive. Bedroom TRVs coud then throttle down whist the heat pump feeds the floor. Or just a bathroom towel rail that feeds the floor towards the shoulder seasons? Why is the the valved off "Experimental" volumiser is on the return rather than the flow to the space heating circuit? (genuine question - I'm supposed to be putting in a fixie ground source unit this spring and need to decide whether to put the volumiser on the retun or the flow - and instructions suggest the flow rather than the return) Waste Water Heat Recovery probably the next best avaialble option for reducing heat load?

[@ronmorrell9809]

The engineering and craftsmanship used with your installation is amazing. Living in USA, my house is much less historic than yours. By using a mini-split air-air heat pump with wall cassettes, I was able to do the installation myself of a 3-ton unit which heats half of my house in one week. The circulating fan is very quiet, unless turned to high. I didn't disturb the old furnace, so I have recourse in the event of very cold weather. Our coldest weather was 18F (-7C) and I didn't use the furnace. Where appropriate, such a hybrid approach can significantly reduce upfront costs, with only a small reduction of savings

[@enm22]

Now I'm going to have to move just to ensure you install one for me 😁

[@ambrosiad1588]

Can you tell us more about the screed and how you got it so thin, (ideally post the company name 🙂). I've been told the minimum I can go is 50mm, I'd love to get it below 30mm

[@antonclaeys]

I have also installed my own vaillant arotherm 7 kw heat pump connected to my underfloor heating without buffers in a well insulated new build. I also have installed kamstrup heat flow meters. My SCOP is also higher than what the spec says should be

[@TC-V8]

Interesting video. I did the calculations on my house - similar to yours, small 3 bed link detatched, with an uninsulated slab and the heat loss into the floor with under floor heating was very high - nearly 1kw per hour - vs 300w which is current building regulations allowance.

[@MartinPugh]

As always, your content is easy to follow and understand. We're just starting out looking at heat pumps as we have a relatively new build property and gas boiler but the more we learn the more we understand the process. You did have me a little worried at the start of the plant room section though when it looked like you were bringing in a buffer tank but glad to see it didn't make it into the final design.

[@UrbanPlumbers]

It did! It is a 100l volumiser and it is connected. Not sure if it is that much of a help yet, will run test with and without it soon

[@MartinPugh]

@@UrbanPlumbers I must have missed it it the final shots. We always look forward to seeing what the stats look like when you get to experiment.

[@swisby3820]

Would be good to confirm what temp you generate and store hot water, 45C or 50C? Do you programme a legionella cycle at all?

[@marcdebattista]

You simply make the best videos on the subject. Hats off to you! Have you got anti- fracture matting under the tiles? What are your thoughts on the TOG increase these surely have? What are your thoughts on increasing system volume with a large volumizer to increase efficiency when it's relatively mild outside (>10C) and to also store energy during the night thanks to the cheaper tariff?

[@oswaldconsultancyltd3150]

Great job. You have a hot water cylinder and is that a buffer or volumiser next to it that you rolled in?

[@ZanderKaneUK]

What is the recovery time of such systems? Or does the system stay on 24/7? Typically a gas system will be off over night does this remain the same? You show 20.5 degree room temp how quickly could the system say go to 24 degrees?

[@UrbanPlumbers]

Around 2-3 hours per degree if run efficiently. - could be done quicker at a higher cost

[@clarkfinlay78]

My home is run on a combi boiler and I have for a long time now tried to understand the benefits of moving to a heat pump. As we have a combi boiler we don't have a hot water tank so where does that go is the first problem. We have solar and a decent amount of battery storage so can run the house completely on overnight electricity which is added to the battery and the solar tops it up or exports in the summer. So having electric heating and hot water would be super-efficient but when we got the heat loss calculations done it said we needed larger emitters to run at 45 degrees flow temperature, none of the rooms have space for larger radiators. Although we currently run our Worcester boiler at 45 degrees flow because MCS says it won't run at the design temperature me have another problem. The outside unit can just (by 10mm) be installed under permitted development and just passes the MCS 020 sound and its the quietest heat pump of its size (Vailiant naturally) but if the installer isn't exact we could hit major problems if we need to for planning after the installation. It just seems the whole process is nothing but problems. Plus now there is an idea of air-to-air heat pumps without any planning hoops likely cheaper even without a grant of 7500 and would cool in summer.

[@liamleech6844]

Tidy work mate 👌🏻 what’s that black backing board you have in the plant room? Starting my plant room in 2 weeks so would like to get it ordered in. Cheers

[@newsgroup6948]

Wow, great workmanship, that install is a work of art. Not far from you so wouldn’t mind getting a quote, I do have 10mm microbore though which I’m hoping isn’t a stopper.

[@jeffreyrex8232]

Can regularly outperform manufacturers design without issue at certain conditions. I like being surprised when commissioning new chillers.

[@philipelliott5821]

Just two comments. 1 I think you should have put some insulation down on your flooring before you laid down your screed. 2 You are one of the best installers of heat pumps your understanding of system’s and workmanship is brilliant. But for the average Joe trying to understand a small part of what you do is a tall order. Then once it’s installed you need to keep a eye on system to see that it’s performing correctly. It takes up a fare amount of space . A lot of installer’s are not as good as you are. And it also costs a lot of money to have a good system designed and to have someone as good as yourself install it. Keep up the good work.🥵🥵

[@FrankReif]

Great point about the ground being a large accumulator. Its why I prefer suspended ground floors to be enclosed and conditioned with some MHRV supply. A DPM is worth it, but insulation isn't necessary. Instead, EWI that continues to the footing, perhaps with a perimeter drain/gutter storm drainage job, extends the path length the heat needs to travel to get round the insulation, eliminating the cold bridges and condensation risks. It's also worth remembering that MHRVs mainly recover latent heat from moisture in the home. If you have an exhaust vent in an airing cupboard/bathroom/utility room where that drying occurs, you basically get the most efficient way to dry clothing. It may not be as fast as a heat pump dryer, but it's cheaper and better for your clothes.

[@martinlemke4440]

Nice Video. At least the black painted wall in your plant room... Looks like a studio setup to display a system to customers. 👍

[@doughay6263]

I'm in the process of installing a geothermal system. However, I did a knockdown/rebuild, rather than your ever creeping renovation... Cool stuff.

[@dickie997]

Great video Szymon, delighted you’ve been able to truely maximise the heat pump technology and great to see you invest up front (£’000s in renovations and insulation). I find the biggest barrier for folks is this upfront commitment and I hope vids like yours can change people’s perceptions. Good work. Personally I have gone the other way and hybrid my Viessmann 200 with a Vitocal 150. I’m doing renovations work one room at a time as it’s a very old (140yrs) Victorian Terrance in Newcastle. My scop is only about 3 and the two Viessmann units DON’T talk to each other so I’ve had to design and install a load of logic. I wish I’d gone with Vaillant but it’s too late now. I see that Vaillant has teamed up with OVO and Heat Geek, so that might bring some more interest here in Newcastle.

[@normanboyes4983]

Syzmon - that surpassed excellent and is an absolute masterclass. The installation not only achieves excellent performance but the layout on the black background is ‘artistic’. Any chance you could link the cavity wall outfit you used?

[@UrbanPlumbers]

thank you ! - it is EPS bids insulation from a compnay called Arrow insulation - they were quite cheap actually - some £1500 for the whole job.

[@normanboyes4983]

@@UrbanPlumbers Thanks👍

[@geoffhaylock6848]

Interested to know how you control moisture within the home. Well sealed homes, which are good for thermal loss, often have little airflow and require something like an MVHR system.

[@matt5401]

Great installation and results. Could you go over your settings? Curve? Setback times/temp? Dhw settings?

[@charliespence5962]

Chasing El Copo is brilliant. I'm stealing that if you don't mind. We are also getting SCOP's well into the high 4's sometimes even mid 5's on our installs. It's all very exciting!

[@Phil-kt6hc]

Absolutely love your channel. Your instal is mint! Yes... I'm now completely sold on heat pumps. I just need to find an installer as good as you... Oh crap...

[@chrisgemmix0815]

I loved watching this because I have the highest respect for your work, and I am in the process of preparing my own house for a low energy heating system as well. And I am very pleased that the concept I came up with is similar to what my favourite professional decided to do for his own house! 🙂 In some ways I am actually more radical, for example I use 50mm PIR insulation on the inside of the external walls, and in order to avoid cold bridges I ripped out every single internal wall so I can have an uninterrupted layer of insulation. There will be underfloor heating throughout the house so I don't need any big radiators, and I put in ducting for a heat recovery ventilation system. In fact, I started out doing all this to make my house as suitable as possible for a heat pump - but meanwhile I am beginning to wonder whether the energy consumption will be so low anyway that it's not worth buying a heat pump. I might end up using the electric combi boiler that I installed as a temporary CH+HW system for good, possibly supplemented by a hot water tank with electric heating element fed mostly by solar power.

[@shm5547]

If you've got room for the solar panels, it's actually not a bad idea. An electric boiler only has an efficiency of 100% compared to 500%-ish for a heat pump. The cost consideration is 5x the number of solar vs. the cost of a heat pump, for the same heat output. The advantage of an electric boiler, is no moving parts, harmful gases or noise. Could be quite a low maintenance system.

[@Umski]

Congrats 🎉 Looking at my own HP maybe this year - fabric seems okay but could be better - calcs and historical data seem to tally with 7kW at -2C for a 190m2 bungalow (2001 build but added loft insulation and changed glazing to 1.4 u-value) - the 7kW Vaillant seems to be the logical option but rads are all currently singles and would all need replacing to “go low flow” and suspect the aged Megaflow just doesn’t like anything below 50C having experimented a bit taking the existing boiler down - looking forward to analysing your openenergy data 👍

[@DMFPERFORMANCE]

Currently running at a flow temp of 25oC with a CoP of 6.7 today so far using the same 5kw aerotherm you have.

[@Autonomegast]

Wow! That is performance!

[@wimdsock9419]

Lovely install. Do you feel that the immersion booster will be necessary with your R290 heat pump? I'm in Scotland, with arotherm plus and always use only the heat pump to heat the water regardless of outside temperature.

[@paulappleyard5832]

Your conclusion are spot on. It's a scandal that all new builds aren't HP. You've done a lot of work on the property to get it to that COP

[@UrbanPlumbers]

Yes, but all new builds are even better than my house in terms of insulation! It’s a crime that most don’t perform like mine or have gas boilers installed

[@johnzach2057]

@@UrbanPlumbers What are the thermal loses of your house at -5 degrees Celsius? And what of her buildings?

[@UrbanPlumbers]

@@johnzach2057 around 4kW at -5

[@_Dougaldog]

No new builds in Scotland will have gas boilers from April this year, England and Wales April 2025. The heat pump market will be very busy.

[@johnzach2057]

@@_Dougaldog hopefully the installers will do a great job. But I'm not holding my breath

[@stixstonesinvestors5413]

As always absolutely love your videos mate. I learn so much. Thank you 🙏🏼

[@UrbanPlumbers]

My pleasure!

[@PeterJFlower]

Well done, this is a great video, very clear and informative. The only thing I would add is a clear view of the plant room schematic, although the layout is fairly obvious to me. How do you get on with domestic hot water? Does the heating go off for long periods whilst the domestic hot water is heating up? Do you notice the temperature dropping in the house? I hope the cable in the cavity doesn't bridge the cavity and cause damp on the inside wall, I would be slightly worried about that. Probably be ok. I looked at the recent COP figures. The outside temp is going up, but your COP is going down, any idea why? Overall very good job, a nice simple and neat install.

[@UrbanPlumbers]

it is what is called 'Hot Water Priority' so hot water is never done at the same time as heating. COP is going down as my heating COP is around 5 and hot water is aroudn 4 - and now I am only doing how water so it will push the scop down towards 4 and then go back again in the winter. Just shows, that my system has the highest COPs in the winter!

[@davedawson9851]

Hi Szymon. I'm currently looking for a reputable installer in North Wales. My new place is a stone cottage with 600mm solid walls and concrete floor. The only power available to me is the existing electricity without installing a new oil or liquid gas tank. Oil looks like a non-starter given the planned boiler ban and liquid gas could become expensive given current world events. Like others in the comments my main concern is getting hold of a good installer. Nearest Heat Geek Elite is 100 miles away! If I was on the gas grid I'd fit a gas boiler, basically because I've seen too many stories about bad design and installation of heat pumps. Yes I'll have a heat pump installed but I have to say it worries me.

[@DGT73]

Might want to look at IWI (internal wall insulation). I had a 14kW Mitsubishi in a Victorian stone terrace and it worked great, the walls act like a heat sink, don’t let anyone tell you heat pumps don’t work in old properties 👍

[@malcolmnew8973]

@@DGT73 I also live in North Wales with a solid wall terrace house. I'm on the gas grid but might still consider an ASHP if better grants were available. My main concern would be the quality of design and standard of fitting. The confusing somewhat suspicious ad campaigns don't help either. Plus lack of space for a plant room when I only have an aging combi boiler with no storage tank. Might consider a simpler air to air dry system split system with three or four point of use hot water points with solar panels and a battery (If I can find the space!) Won't be super efficient but air to air can still have a COP of over 4.

[@mercian8051]

Great Job! I’m interested to know why zoning decreases efficiency?

[@nivenwoodfine1928]

How much was it to supply everything for the heat pump,including what the labour cost.underfloor heating,screeding. Wall cavity insulation,and wall insulation an loft insulation.EVERYTHING!!! I’m interested to know since that’s a pretty standard size house for most people ??????

[@davidscott3292]

Tens of thousands at a guess.

[@jackfulton6789]

A price point well out of reach for most people. Gas boilers are here to stay 👍

[@nivenwoodfine1928]

Yeah I know mate I’m a gas fitter I just fancied a laugh 😂

[@DrRogB]

Plenty of people spend ten k on a kitchen. It's pretty common for a house to get that sort of upgrade and for the cost to end up on the mortgage. In this case that "investment" has a return.

[@5axonm]

Hi, loving your work. This proves the sort of efficiencies that can be achieved with properly designed and installed systems. One question, why did you feel the need for a volumiser. I can only presume the system is so small this would lead to defrost issues? If this is the case, at what point do you advise the use of a volumiser.

[@markrainford1219]

Would you have bothered with internal insulation, if you had known about your empty cavity?

[@philreilly6959]

Great video. I really enjoy seeing how you go about your installations. Keep up the great work!

[@jameshazelip3998]

Lovely installation as always 👍 however I would to see a video on how you run the system such as set temp and setback temps etc and also why you fitted a buffer and different brand cylinder instead of vaillants own 👍

[@KavanOBrien]

Yes I would have a heat pump instead of gas boiler only if you would do it , the thing is I live in Devon , having watched a few of your videos now and keeping in mind I have a small terraced three bedroom house I think my instillation could be your easiest and quickest one you’ve ever done , would be willing to wait until you could fit me into your schedule, you could even wait till summer and combine the instillations with a break in Devon obviously cream teas would be served .

[@bennheatley]

Please post a video showing how you approach retrofitting ventilation with heat recovery!

[@Zaph31]

Great video as always Szymon. But if I'm honest this is exactly why our current heat pump targets are doomed to fail - a small semi-detached retrofit should not require someone as smart as you to do this much planning and designing just for modest gains (net).

[@francoporco9780]

How do you get the hotwater up to temperature also you’ve had to do extensive renovations to get the property ready for the heat pump. What was the cost to install and what is the return on the cost spent. Thanks great job

[@tomthomas5929]

Lovely job Szymon

[@radfoo]

Hi. Great info, few questions though. Why did you choose the 5kw over the 3.5kw version? Interested in the design temp of -2.7? I have been messing around with Heat Loss calculators (currently using the Heat Punk one) and wondered what design temp to choose, is there a formula or reference you can choose based on location, sea level etc. ? Looking at your plan, the expansion vessel in the top right, is this in addition to one in the heat pump or does it not have one built in? Is the main benefit of the buffer to reduce cycling? Although less cycling surely heating more water in the buffer costs more? How many litres is it? Is it really needed? Love learning about this stuff, great work and great videos, thank you.

[@caseydbani1419]

Great video, and lot of effort! I think a good air to air heatpump has even better efficiency, as it has less temperature difference to work against. Just pumps against 20°C inside air, and not to 32°C water.

[@shm5547]

Those are low bills, nice job! For comparison, our medium sized '80's 4-bed-detached bill for last month with conventional gas boiler (s-plan, on/off controls with Nest) came to £295 … These charges are based on your meter readings. VAT is included. Electricity - £108.80 Gas - £186.53 8th January 2024 - 5th February 2024

[@simondownes5010]

Hey Urban Plumber! i enjoyed your vid as usual. One question i did have, you have a cordivari tank in your install, are you using this as a buffer tank or volumiser? If so can you explain your rational? Also i noticed a few points from your open energy stats. 1 - your hot water heat up cycles are generall peaking out at around 45 deg C, i pressume you are not living there or do you have some other method of heating the water beyond this? 2 - you seem to be getting a delta T of around 2-3 deg C for your heating system, ive heard you talk of a design delta T of 5 before, is this lower figure what you expected? Thanks in advance!

[@BerlietGBC]

Love it , my longer term plan is to go heat pump very much based on your work I have watched over the last few years

[@Bob_too]

Great job and of course Fabric First !! Can you share which type of Cavity Wall insulation you had blown in and perhaps why ? I think I’ve also found missing cavity wall insulation in our 2001 build house.

[@UrbanPlumbers]

eps bids insualtion - company is called Arrow insulation

[@myatix1]

Super cool video! Can you explain what cylinder you chose and how your DHW performs on the cylinder? It would also be really cool to have a follow up of the full system design! Including all the mass flow rates and velocity

[@georgeb8581]

Cool ! Proud of you Man! But in any case with gas boiler we have less issues than with ASHP, only regs mate ….

[@cc-tf3tb]

Really enjoyed watching this video and will follow along for updates on performance. Have you any experience of milled UFH and use with heat pumps. I have an un insulated slab and would love UFH without having to lose any height in the room by building up on top of the slab.

[@ChampionCCC]

Can you do a video on the monitoring, with regard to what's needed / what should be installed, and what's nice to install but not exactly necessary ? Or to be more exact, what have you monitored which the Vaillant WON'T give you ? And have you looked at sending data into Home Assistant ? Going with Solar PV and Batteries will surely push you in the direction of a common "Energy" interface. Thanks again for sharing your knowledge and experience. I have the missus totally onboard now to dump the gas boiler this year :)

[@davidtantz]

Mind blowing I am all in!

[@twelvebears1971]

This really give me hope for our installation. We are in. 2018 3 bed semi and also have the plastic microbore coming down from the first floor. House is generally pretty warm but have no idea if the cavity walls have been insulated or not.

[@jondor654]

One simple way might be a drill at the corners and inexpensive boroscope .

[@andrewkelly1485]

Symon you are the Davinci of Plummers !! 👌🏾 You have to do my ASHP and UFH, it would be a crime for me to have anyone else to do it, l dont mind paying even more that the average.. You'll hear from me soon

[@iancooper6975]

Fantastic video, editing game is getting better and better, as is the content! You live in my hometown but I hope you're willing to travel a little! Planning a full house renovation in Warwickshire with extension work as well, My hope is to take the opportunity to add a heat pump and perhaps MVHR (if the building allows this from a sealing perspective). I'd love to use you and your team for the work!

[@MrButuz]

Yes I am thinking of going the heat route pump in a year or two but first off, I want to replace my old combi boiler with just a hot water cylinder and then use overnight cheap electricity to heat my water via immersion heater to begin with. (I can then get rid of the combi boiler cancel the gas etc save money on gas fees and potentially work on installing some more efficient piping and radiators ready for when I do go the heatpump route). Then the heatpump can heat my existing hot water cylinder, and heat the new radiators too (and possibly underfloor heating in my garage if I am lucky). What do you think of this plan? I also have a small solar and battery system so I think it will work well eventually when it's all finished.

[@loving-plumbing]

Excellent video again. Interested to know what software you are using to design the plant room layout on. Seems better then what I currently have! Thanks

[@benkenta]

Interesting to see you were not worried about insulating the floor under the UFH. Almost everywhere online people say you must do this, but it is not always convenient in a retrofit. Does anyone think it makes a difference if the house is a cavity wall construction? As this potentially cuts the sideways losses in the slab...

[@UrbanPlumbers]

Makes little difference . I have been doing a lot of uninsulated UFH without any issues. Mine has been in almost a year now and I don’t think insulating the floor would make any difference

[@benkenta]

@@UrbanPlumbers Thanks. I guess insulating floors is really overrated, especially on a retrofit. And you have the added benefit of using it as a heat store. Just make sure you have a nice conductive floor covering like tiles...

[@UFZ7482]

Excellent, would love to see a full schematic of your system.

[@jchidley]

It's great news that you can beat the manufacturer's published performance. That gives me more confidence in my design as I have tried to do everything to maximise efficiency: all my core pipework is 22mm Copper with mostly just bends and 15mm to radiators. I have very large emitters (K3 in some places, K2 elsewhere) and I am currently running the system at 35C flow using my gas boiler. So far, this winter, the performance is good. I don't want to "upgrade" to underfloor heating owing to the massive disruption to my house. I'll be installing a 5kw Vaillant in the Summer/Autumn and removing my Vaillant combi and removing the gas meter.

[@ozzyozman1536]

Great video mate, did you change the microbore pipework in your house? I went on a Panasonic course and they said heat pumps can run on them

[@UrbanPlumbers]

yes, i didnt want any compromises on my own hosue. Microbore will work, but will usually require a buffer and another pump, making the system less efficeinct. Change it if yo can.

[@gavjlewis]

I have done the insulation part on my terraced house (or townhouse if you like). The problem is i have backed myself into a financial corner. So my expected gas usage for heating and hot water is 4679kWh for the year so about £325+£102 standing charge. I also dont have any place for a hot water tank as the current boiler is in the kitchen in a cupboard. Im tempted to go with a twin head A2A unit for the majority of heating and an electric boiler for hot water and the really cold days in the winter as topup heating. Not really ideal granted so for now I'll stick to gas and see how things pan out.

[@smp289]

Nice. You'll soon be in the COP 6.0 group. My best to date after Vailant 5kW install. 6.3 for heating; yesterday. 3.7 typically DHW.

[@UrbanPlumbers]

Vaillant controller shows 5.9 already, but it’s not as accurate as OEM

[@_Dougaldog]

@@UrbanPlumbers Will be interesting to see how the readings from both compare, as you say OpenEnergyMonitor should be the benchmark. Will you be posting your data on their site ?

[@_Dougaldog]

@@UrbanPlumbers I found your OEM link 👍

[@ianbeck5897]

Had it been in our previous home I'd have been on the phone to you in a heart beat as we were less than a mile away from you! I just searched for a Heat Geek Elite near me now. Having located our house, the site said that our heat loss is 17.7KW and too large an installation. I don't know how the site knows the details of our house, although I admit that it's reasonably large, old and detached - but that loss seems massive - especially as it has reasonable insulation, big thick walls, some cob, and Low E glazing. As things stand ATM, our oil boiler is running fine and isn't especially old. It is a little worrying that the Elite site suggests that we are loosing that much heat and it could be quite an exercise come heat pump time!

[@TheHeatingPeople]

The heat loss estimate on the Heat Geek Upgrades site used information available on line (Mostly the EPC), and data collected from heat loss calculations carried out on similar properties with similar EPCs. If you’ve made upgrades since the latest EPC, it’s likely your heat loss will be lower than estimated.

[@ianbeck5897]

@@TheHeatingPeople Thank you for explaining that. The EPC was done in 2013 by the previous owner. The basics of it appear to resemble the construction of the house but a fair bit has changed since that report was submitted - I suspect that these changes will have some positive affect upon the heat loss - but it will still be relatively high even so.

[@patrickwheeler2646]

Great video brother! New builds will only get decent cop if the construction companies start valuing us hearing engineers instead of paying plumbers to chuck in microbore.

[@UrbanPlumbers]

The quickest way to push for better quality will be consumer driven - once shown what is possible, customers will demand decent scops, some already do as we know.

[@rogerphelps9939]

My 4 bed extended detached house has a lot of microbore from when it was built in 1979. It originally had a vented central heating system and the radiator valves were all coaxial which meant that the flow and return went to only one end of each radiator. This made for convenience of installation but not much else. As part of my upgrade for a GSHP, I converted all of the radiators to double ended with TRV and lockshield valves using 15mm pipes. The work included increasing the radiator sizes where appropriatw. All the downstairs radiators are double panel double convector and upstairs they are double panel single convector. An extension has a suspended floor with underfloor heating. The GSP is a 9kw Ecoforest. In spite of the microbore the whole system worksvery well with the COP well over 5 on some days.

[@paulp82]

Szymon this is really making me rethink one of my development Jobs, I had an existing floor that I was going to insulate with the Lo-flow panels and then tile on top but I trust/know you know your stuff going direct. Also you mentioned a 25-30mm screed but I thought you needed 25mm over the ufh pipes, is that different with the screed you used? Many thanks

[@SamToy-h4q]

Hi, what underfloor heating did you use? Great channel, keep up the good work!

[@airspike1]

Good morning Szymon, one question please, if your heat loss calculation gave a figure of around 3Kwh heat loss was there any reason why you did not specify the 3.5Kwh Vaillant Arotherm Plus unit rather than the 5.0Kwh unit you did? Just curious!

[@UrbanPlumbers]

3.5 is the same unit with capped top. Would not modulate any lower and would take longer on DHW. 3.5 unit is a bit pointless as it is. I would love a real 3.5 unit - not a capped 5, that would be awesome

[@JamesJenksphltd]

Top work as always. Hows the performance comparison with and without the volumiser connected?

[@JanZamani]

Aweseome congrats! Do you prefr internal vs cavity wall insulation? Is there a risk of damp and what materials do you reccomend?

[@UrbanPlumbers]

External if possible, then cavity and internal as a last resort

[@martinlemke4440]

It would be great to see more in-depth details how you are logging your data from your heating system and which components are needed in detail. The out of the box data from Vaillant aren't enough to have a nice and complete monitoring.

[@solarguy4850]

You made my day with the uninsulated underfloor comment. I installed hydronic in my basement slab without insulating underneath it (sides insulated) thinking the thermal earth mass (gravel) under the slab would be helpful for maintaining temperature. For years everyone said this was a big mistake due to “infinite” heat loss through the ground (despite earth being an insulator itself). Anyway .. I never noticed any unusual issues /losses with my system but nevertheless thought I made a mistake .. but this video actually supports that I may even have made a smart choice after-all by forgoing this insulation as thermal mass helps heat pumps big time .. and I’ll be installing one as soon as we get cold-weather propane units in our market. Thanks.

[@lazocar1014]

I was hopping you'll be talking about your pipeing setup. As I can see you have a buffer installed is this because of zoning? How did you setup the zoning and underfloor heating? How long are your pipe circles in UFH?

[@UrbanPlumbers]

no zoning. no buffer. just volumiser. UFH pipe length is 75m per loop at 100mm centers

[@lazocar1014]

@@UrbanPlumbers is voulumizer needed for all the UFH or just in your setup?

[@lazocar1014]

@@UrbanPlumbers Will I get beter circulation if I go with 50m per loop on my UFH or it doesn't matter?

[@UrbanPlumbers]

@@lazocar1014 uo to 100m is acceptable if using 16mm pipeworks. I wanted the lowest possible pressure loss for lower pumping power.

[@lazocar1014]

@@UrbanPlumbers I'm trying to do UF pipework as yours, so 16mm at 100mm and I was planning to go 50 or 60 meters loops and 28mm from HP till manifolds(I have 2 manifolds). Now the question: Is the Valiant Arotherm pump capable to circulate through the system with the lowest pump power or do I maybe need to upgrade from 16mm to 17mm in loops and from 28 to 32 for manifolds to achieve better circulation? I'm in the process of building a new house so now have a chance to design UFH the best way possible.

[@Plan3tBob]

Hi, Do you have any opinion or experience with the new R290 heat pumps? Given the 75 deg temp they can achieve I'm assuming they could be retrofitted into existing radiator systems with little or no modification to main pipework... It would be interesting to hear your thoughts.

[@l2e4w6i8s]

Great video! It would be great to see a break down of the cost of heat loss upgrades achieved on the house and also the system cost to get an idea of investment in such a job. I feel like this is something people often are not willing to talk about, but should be known. Again, Great content as always. Your really helping the industry move in the right direction. I've just recently got my heat pump qualification and am looking forward to a new challenge as we move away from gas boilers!

[@chrisfletcher86]

Interesting video, how have you handled the raising of the floor with the underfloor piping and such? I think I heard you say that you weren't insulating (which suprised me) but even without that must have raised the floor by a few centimetres? If I did that here I'd need to adjust all the doors, the first step of the stairs would be off, new kitchen, etc etc.

[@mattmackenzie1111]

Great work Szymon! Where are you getting the underfloor heating kit you are using?

[@davidgordon773]

Fantastic. I’m hoping to get one fitted in a few months through Octopus. I can’t imagine that they will have anything like your skill and knowledge level. Is there anything that I should be insisting upon at the survey/ design stage.

[@LauraJim-nf5ef]

Great video as ever. What's your take on split systems? I don't see much about them.