500% Efficient Heat Pumps - Are They Real?

#heatpump #heating #efficiency
My heat pump is now up and running. You can see its live performance on Open Energy Monitor right here:
emoncms.org/ap...

[@jacko101]

I'd only have one if you install it. 😄

[@aidandillon9520]

Me too! 😊

[@elslopez]

Same

[@CommercialGasEngineerVideos]

Hear hear, that's a good shout. Unless you get the right installer like our good friend, then there's hardly any point.

[@neilbissett1240]

And me too great video mate 👏😎

[@tomroguk]

100% agree, would totally take one on just heard too many horror stories of bad installs!

[@EB1156]

I live in the Northwest of the USA and am installing a heat pump and underfloor heating, partially based on your and other's experiences. None of my friends/ colleagues understand why or what I'm talking about because what we see here are mostly forced-air furnaces or, less often, air-to-air heat pump systems. I just wanted to say thank you and keep the heat pump content coming. Eric

[@goldenretriever6261]

Washington? Not that cold in the winter. Not sure these systems will work in places like Montana or Wyoming without back up heat.

[@calmeilles]

@@goldenretriever6261 Worth searching for examples here and elsewhere because there are people for whom they have worked. I think Alec of Technology Connections said that his system functioned in the -20°F arctic blast, possible on his side channel. But certainly it is necessary to know the limitations of a system and under what conditions alternate heat would be required.

[@ram64man]

I have a heat split in buffalo ny insulation is key far higher than regulations us key , r30 minimum and insulate the external connected wall as well , the underfloor and main house all 1900 didn’t cope with 14f and needed supplementary support, the annex with modern insulation runs s dankin air to air 16kwh air to air is the best way to go in my experience heating 2600 ft property we have no removed the air to water system completely and gone for a 55000 btu Bosch tankless heater , and had no issues keeping it at 75f yet still keep the air to air heat pump as that has been brilliant

[@rogerphelps9939]

Anyrhing that burns fossil fuels for heat will be banned eventually.

[@razvanlex]

@@goldenretriever6261 These systems work in Norway, Sweden and Denmark since the '80's and before. If the temperature drops many degreed below zero they all have back-up electric heat. I'm using one heat pump for my house that has a gas boiler for back-up (and for DHW) and the vacation house has also a heat pump but with an electric boiler as back-up. I love in Romania and two weeks ago it was -14°C. The total cost for one heat pump was 2.700 EUR, installation included.

[@Ben-gm9lo]

You sir, are an artisan of your trade. I absolutely love your content and never miss a video. This one in particular was ace. Professionals and pioneers like you are making our human inhabitation of this precious planet a bit safer day by day, little by little.

[@TuubiMun]

even his copper is extra shiny...

[@limeparallelogram7221]

I’ll be really honest here, I always used to think of plumbing as kind of un unskilled / boring labour job but you and your videos have single handedly changed my mind. The quality, care and talent you display in these videos is so evident it’s inspirational - so much so that as someone who is currently studying computer science at university, I’m considering spending a few years installing heat pumps after I graduate. It’s something that I feel is such an important part of the decarbonisation process and there aren’t enough installers like you. ❤️

[@Tim_Small]

After you do that, use your software engineering skills to create some software to help out the rest of the heat pump industry...

[@JOOI525]

Great example of doing it the correct way around. Lesson to everyone has to be 'do the basics first', - improve a homes insulation. I like many others get great pleasure and inspiration from watching crafts people at work. I know it takes a lot of effort to put the videos together, but it is appreciated.

[@TomTomicMic]

Improve the homes insulation by fitting 50mm foam and plasterboard internally to external walls (As well as loft insulation and double glazing) and your bills will be half anyway £6k cost, it's not worth doing the heat pump/ solar/ battery malarkey as it's not economical in a 10 to 15 year span (It's lifetime!) cost £23k!?!

[@UrbanPlumbers]

@TomTomicMic internal wall insulation can be very tricky. Most builders just do dot and dab which is a recipe for a disaster. Correctly done IWA without leaving any air gaps between insulation and the wall is tricky, expensive and very few builders know how to do it correctly.

[@richardcorns8553]

Always love your videos, and find them a great way to understand how heatpumps work. We've had our Viessmann 150a 10kw heatpump installed since end of October last year and we're over the moon with its performance. Currently its 4c outside and the pump is pulling 1.04kw to provide 5.43kw heat. Flow temp at 33.7c UFH throughout. 22c temperature in the house. Very cosy.

[@zyks4628]

Agreed. I had a Viessmann 151 10kw heatpump installed last May and have been delighted with it. System SCOP to date 4.6. Heating SCOP 5.1, DHW 3.6. Currently 5C outside, flow temp is 29C and house at 22C!

[@steveearley8352]

I’m always so impressed with the quality of the work. My little fizzy brain loves seeing how well explained it all is as well as how neat and tidy everything is. Sets such a high bar for everyone else!

[@johnfreshwater3790]

Excellent video again. I am a huge fan of heat pumps and have one in my 200 sq metre 220 year old stone house and it's cheaper to run than the old oil boiler. But trying to convince people that they work is hard work and I have given up trying My house is also on radiators only a garden room has underfloor.

[@mmettania]

Congrats on the progress and finally getting your own heat pump.

[@UrbanPlumbers]

Thanks 👍

[@terryrigden4860]

Very interesting we also had our Vaillant heat pump installed mid January. I'm getting reported COPs of 5+ on the App and didn't believe it, but as you are getting that from a proper heat meter I'm inclined to believe it now. I took careful note of all the pointers for good heat pump system design installation and set up from your previous videos and its paying off , THANK YOU! Since 17th of January we have only used 180Kwh and have been warmer and more comfortable. We are getting the bulk of our power at the cheap rate and about half the time we get through the day on battery power plus a bit from the solar panels which has cut our average heating cost to about £1 a day. I'm expecting to heat for free by the end of the month as solar production increases.

[@wajopek2679]

Nice job! Preparation is key to everything. Having space for a plant room is another.

[@Gazmaz]

That is my biggest issue with a change from our combi boiler to a heat pump. Space. :(

[@rolandrohde]

Thanks for providing these insightful videos! I also have the 5KW Vaillant system, but installed more "traditionally" with a small buffer and everything. My COP values are not that high usually, but the overall energy consumption looks good so far. If the trend continues we will end up with about 1500kWh of electricity for the first year, despite having more than one cold spell going all the way down to -13°C here in Germany. I am on the fence about asking my Installer for a quote on some changes to the system, since it likely won't be worthwhile...but I haven't ruled it out yet.

[@rabhaw2327]

Strange that the average 2 bed house uses around 2000 kWh a year without a heat pump?

[@rolandrohde]

@@rabhaw2327 The 1500kWh are just the heat pump

[@johnburns4017]

Inside the garage on the wall between the garage and house, fix insulation. It is a large area. It all adds up. Easy and cheap to fit as well.

[@_Dougaldog]

Urban plumber has set this up as a showpiece to advertise his business, and the quality they offer. A showpiece backdrop for the videos. My Heat Pump paraphernalia is in a four foot square boiler cupboard, where the old boiler was removed from. Cylinder, volumiser (25l), expansion vessel, etc... Leaving the airing cupboard free for use. Two bedroom semi, moderate insulation.

[@johnburns4017]

@@_Dougaldog My point is _insulation._ there is a large area of wall that can be insulated very easily and cheaply. It will give a good bang for buck.

[@UFZ7482]

I've just started my own self install of a Vaillant 7kw aroTHERM plus and am using some of your videos and tidiness as a benchmark!

[@michaelridley2864]

Wow, great presentation, agree with other comments that was an absolute masterclass, inspiring to those of us looking to go down a similar path. Even to a lay person, your plant room was a thing of beauty. Thankyou, and please more videos.

[@Neilhuny]

Yes! That plant room was fantastic!

[@ronmorrell9809]

The engineering and craftsmanship used with your installation is amazing. Living in USA, my house is much less historic than yours. By using a mini-split air-air heat pump with wall cassettes, I was able to do the installation myself of a 3-ton unit which heats half of my house in one week. The circulating fan is very quiet, unless turned to high. I didn't disturb the old furnace, so I have recourse in the event of very cold weather. Our coldest weather was 18F (-7C) and I didn't use the furnace. Where appropriate, such a hybrid approach can significantly reduce upfront costs, with only a small reduction of savings

[@doughay6263]

I'm in the process of installing a geothermal system. However, I did a knockdown/rebuild, rather than your ever creeping renovation... Cool stuff.

[@TC-V8]

Interesting video. I did the calculations on my house - similar to yours, small 3 bed link detatched, with an uninsulated slab and the heat loss into the floor with under floor heating was very high - nearly 1kw per hour - vs 300w which is current building regulations allowance.

[@paulappleyard5832]

Your conclusion are spot on. It's a scandal that all new builds aren't HP. You've done a lot of work on the property to get it to that COP

[@UrbanPlumbers]

Yes, but all new builds are even better than my house in terms of insulation! It’s a crime that most don’t perform like mine or have gas boilers installed

[@johnzach2057]

@@UrbanPlumbers What are the thermal loses of your house at -5 degrees Celsius? And what of her buildings?

[@UrbanPlumbers]

@@johnzach2057 around 4kW at -5

[@_Dougaldog]

No new builds in Scotland will have gas boilers from April this year, England and Wales April 2025. The heat pump market will be very busy.

[@johnzach2057]

@@_Dougaldog hopefully the installers will do a great job. But I'm not holding my breath

[@normanboyes4983]

Syzmon - that surpassed excellent and is an absolute masterclass. The installation not only achieves excellent performance but the layout on the black background is ‘artistic’. Any chance you could link the cavity wall outfit you used?

[@UrbanPlumbers]

thank you ! - it is EPS bids insulation from a compnay called Arrow insulation - they were quite cheap actually - some £1500 for the whole job.

[@normanboyes4983]

@@UrbanPlumbers Thanks👍

[@davedawson9851]

Hi Szymon. I'm currently looking for a reputable installer in North Wales. My new place is a stone cottage with 600mm solid walls and concrete floor. The only power available to me is the existing electricity without installing a new oil or liquid gas tank. Oil looks like a non-starter given the planned boiler ban and liquid gas could become expensive given current world events. Like others in the comments my main concern is getting hold of a good installer. Nearest Heat Geek Elite is 100 miles away! If I was on the gas grid I'd fit a gas boiler, basically because I've seen too many stories about bad design and installation of heat pumps. Yes I'll have a heat pump installed but I have to say it worries me.

[@DGT73]

Might want to look at IWI (internal wall insulation). I had a 14kW Mitsubishi in a Victorian stone terrace and it worked great, the walls act like a heat sink, don’t let anyone tell you heat pumps don’t work in old properties 👍

[@malcolmnew8973]

@@DGT73 I also live in North Wales with a solid wall terrace house. I'm on the gas grid but might still consider an ASHP if better grants were available. My main concern would be the quality of design and standard of fitting. The confusing somewhat suspicious ad campaigns don't help either. Plus lack of space for a plant room when I only have an aging combi boiler with no storage tank. Might consider a simpler air to air dry system split system with three or four point of use hot water points with solar panels and a battery (If I can find the space!) Won't be super efficient but air to air can still have a COP of over 4.

[@MartinPugh]

As always, your content is easy to follow and understand. We're just starting out looking at heat pumps as we have a relatively new build property and gas boiler but the more we learn the more we understand the process. You did have me a little worried at the start of the plant room section though when it looked like you were bringing in a buffer tank but glad to see it didn't make it into the final design.

[@UrbanPlumbers]

It did! It is a 100l volumiser and it is connected. Not sure if it is that much of a help yet, will run test with and without it soon

[@MartinPugh]

@@UrbanPlumbers I must have missed it it the final shots. We always look forward to seeing what the stats look like when you get to experiment.

[@meterpoint]

Very nice! Ignoring the insulation for the underfloor heating and says "to heck with it - I'm going to make the floor slab sit at 22C instead of 15C" is an interesting approach. I guess when the floor doesn't need to be *that* warm to heat the building (as the heat loss is now low enough and in this case it's tiled rather than hiding under carpet or wood) you are not materially increasing the losses through the floor to the ground and indeed the uplift in COP rom having the underlfoor likley offsets those heat losses anyway. Wish I'd thought of that when renovating a property! Daft ideas: Would it have been feasible to series-feed the radiators and underfloor? Rads first; to benefit from higher flow temperatures; then the underflor to really drag down the return. Might allow rads to be downsized furhter (or run at a lower flow temp) Rads setup for a dP of say 15 kPa, in parallel with an auto-bpyass, feeding the underfloor circuit. Rads would be hotter / more responsive. Bedroom TRVs coud then throttle down whist the heat pump feeds the floor. Or just a bathroom towel rail that feeds the floor towards the shoulder seasons? Why is the the valved off "Experimental" volumiser is on the return rather than the flow to the space heating circuit? (genuine question - I'm supposed to be putting in a fixie ground source unit this spring and need to decide whether to put the volumiser on the retun or the flow - and instructions suggest the flow rather than the return) Waste Water Heat Recovery probably the next best avaialble option for reducing heat load?

[@dickie997]

Great video Szymon, delighted you’ve been able to truely maximise the heat pump technology and great to see you invest up front (£’000s in renovations and insulation). I find the biggest barrier for folks is this upfront commitment and I hope vids like yours can change people’s perceptions. Good work. Personally I have gone the other way and hybrid my Viessmann 200 with a Vitocal 150. I’m doing renovations work one room at a time as it’s a very old (140yrs) Victorian Terrance in Newcastle. My scop is only about 3 and the two Viessmann units DON’T talk to each other so I’ve had to design and install a load of logic. I wish I’d gone with Vaillant but it’s too late now. I see that Vaillant has teamed up with OVO and Heat Geek, so that might bring some more interest here in Newcastle.

[@FrankReif]

Great point about the ground being a large accumulator. Its why I prefer suspended ground floors to be enclosed and conditioned with some MHRV supply. A DPM is worth it, but insulation isn't necessary. Instead, EWI that continues to the footing, perhaps with a perimeter drain/gutter storm drainage job, extends the path length the heat needs to travel to get round the insulation, eliminating the cold bridges and condensation risks. It's also worth remembering that MHRVs mainly recover latent heat from moisture in the home. If you have an exhaust vent in an airing cupboard/bathroom/utility room where that drying occurs, you basically get the most efficient way to dry clothing. It may not be as fast as a heat pump dryer, but it's cheaper and better for your clothes.

[@philipelliott5821]

Just two comments. 1 I think you should have put some insulation down on your flooring before you laid down your screed. 2 You are one of the best installers of heat pumps your understanding of system’s and workmanship is brilliant. But for the average Joe trying to understand a small part of what you do is a tall order. Then once it’s installed you need to keep a eye on system to see that it’s performing correctly. It takes up a fare amount of space . A lot of installer’s are not as good as you are. And it also costs a lot of money to have a good system designed and to have someone as good as yourself install it. Keep up the good work.🥵🥵

[@sebastianmaculewicz1540]

Hi Szymon. I’m great fan of yours. Your professionalism and passion is not something that I can see very often. Who would have thought that by being professional, honest ant passionate about what you do, you will find niche in the market. Strange times we are living in… but anyway, just wanted to ask you what software/plug ins do you use when designing heating systems? Many thanks Szymon for all your content 👌

[@UrbanPlumbers]

H2X - video coming soon, heat engineer software and photoshop

[@AaronCornick]

I was waiting for this to come out was chatting to tommy about your install today great work as always look forwarding to watching this on open monitor

[@martinlemke4440]

Nice Video. At least the black painted wall in your plant room... Looks like a studio setup to display a system to customers. 👍

[@newsgroup6948]

Wow, great workmanship, that install is a work of art. Not far from you so wouldn’t mind getting a quote, I do have 10mm microbore though which I’m hoping isn’t a stopper.

[@jeanh9641]

I am nervous about getting rid of gas but I am getting an Octopus survey. A system like yours would be mazing.

[@UrbanPlumbers]

Good luck with your installation.. Push octopus to desgin to max of 40C if you can. Pay more if needed.

[@jeanh9641]

@@UrbanPlumbers Thank you so for your advice.

[@razvanlex]

Why get rid of gas? Wouldn't be better to kept as bak-up if it's already there? I installed in 2022 a heap pump but kept my 2019 gas boiler for DHW and as back-up. Only had a hole in the wall for the flow and return and some cables and that's all of the "plant room". No big boiler for DHW as the instant DHW gas boiler still does that job.

[@DrRogB]

If you keep gas you still have to pay standing charges and maintenance fees, if you bother. Obviously any standby system benefits from excercise but that's £400 a year better spent on an emersion heater, a couple of fan heaters and a social life. 😊

[@hughmarcus1]

A very interesting video. I have a long term build that we are self funding, so doing it in phases. It is a low energy structure with 250mm pumped cellulose in the walls & a warm roof design. It’s all air tightened & will have MVHR. As we live in the uplands I was always wary of air source due to freezing of the heat exchangers. Recently I had a conversation with a plumber who’s installing Viesmann units. He got their German Head Office to calculate heat losses for the structure & specify a suitable unit. I’m 90% convinced to go with it. I’m wondering if you’ve any experience of Viesmann? Thanks Hugh.

[@patrickwheeler2646]

Great video brother! New builds will only get decent cop if the construction companies start valuing us hearing engineers instead of paying plumbers to chuck in microbore.

[@UrbanPlumbers]

The quickest way to push for better quality will be consumer driven - once shown what is possible, customers will demand decent scops, some already do as we know.

[@rogerphelps9939]

My 4 bed extended detached house has a lot of microbore from when it was built in 1979. It originally had a vented central heating system and the radiator valves were all coaxial which meant that the flow and return went to only one end of each radiator. This made for convenience of installation but not much else. As part of my upgrade for a GSHP, I converted all of the radiators to double ended with TRV and lockshield valves using 15mm pipes. The work included increasing the radiator sizes where appropriatw. All the downstairs radiators are double panel double convector and upstairs they are double panel single convector. An extension has a suspended floor with underfloor heating. The GSP is a 9kw Ecoforest. In spite of the microbore the whole system worksvery well with the COP well over 5 on some days.

[@markrainford1219]

Would you have bothered with internal insulation, if you had known about your empty cavity?

[@l2e4w6i8s]

Great video! It would be great to see a break down of the cost of heat loss upgrades achieved on the house and also the system cost to get an idea of investment in such a job. I feel like this is something people often are not willing to talk about, but should be known. Again, Great content as always. Your really helping the industry move in the right direction. I've just recently got my heat pump qualification and am looking forward to a new challenge as we move away from gas boilers!

[@chrisgemmix0815]

I loved watching this because I have the highest respect for your work, and I am in the process of preparing my own house for a low energy heating system as well. And I am very pleased that the concept I came up with is similar to what my favourite professional decided to do for his own house! 🙂 In some ways I am actually more radical, for example I use 50mm PIR insulation on the inside of the external walls, and in order to avoid cold bridges I ripped out every single internal wall so I can have an uninterrupted layer of insulation. There will be underfloor heating throughout the house so I don't need any big radiators, and I put in ducting for a heat recovery ventilation system. In fact, I started out doing all this to make my house as suitable as possible for a heat pump - but meanwhile I am beginning to wonder whether the energy consumption will be so low anyway that it's not worth buying a heat pump. I might end up using the electric combi boiler that I installed as a temporary CH+HW system for good, possibly supplemented by a hot water tank with electric heating element fed mostly by solar power.

[@shm5547]

If you've got room for the solar panels, it's actually not a bad idea. An electric boiler only has an efficiency of 100% compared to 500%-ish for a heat pump. The cost consideration is 5x the number of solar vs. the cost of a heat pump, for the same heat output. The advantage of an electric boiler, is no moving parts, harmful gases or noise. Could be quite a low maintenance system.

[@Kwirks]

Definitely, after someone who isn't a fly by night installer, who ensures the basics has been done first. This is a major problem in our vast area of Yorkshire as at this moment we have only 2 approved installers. At that rate the Gov could give them away & it would still take hundreds of years to catch up.

[@smp289]

Nice. You'll soon be in the COP 6.0 group. My best to date after Vailant 5kW install. 6.3 for heating; yesterday. 3.7 typically DHW.

[@UrbanPlumbers]

Vaillant controller shows 5.9 already, but it’s not as accurate as OEM

[@_Dougaldog]

@@UrbanPlumbers Will be interesting to see how the readings from both compare, as you say OpenEnergyMonitor should be the benchmark. Will you be posting your data on their site ?

[@_Dougaldog]

@@UrbanPlumbers I found your OEM link 👍

[@Umski]

Congrats 🎉 Looking at my own HP maybe this year - fabric seems okay but could be better - calcs and historical data seem to tally with 7kW at -2C for a 190m2 bungalow (2001 build but added loft insulation and changed glazing to 1.4 u-value) - the 7kW Vaillant seems to be the logical option but rads are all currently singles and would all need replacing to “go low flow” and suspect the aged Megaflow just doesn’t like anything below 50C having experimented a bit taking the existing boiler down - looking forward to analysing your openenergy data 👍

[@CommercialGasEngineerVideos]

Love your passion for making heat pump vids. Might have to change the channel name to urban heat pumps.

[@iancooper6975]

Fantastic video, editing game is getting better and better, as is the content! You live in my hometown but I hope you're willing to travel a little! Planning a full house renovation in Warwickshire with extension work as well, My hope is to take the opportunity to add a heat pump and perhaps MVHR (if the building allows this from a sealing perspective). I'd love to use you and your team for the work!

[@RicknessJ82]

I'm so jealous that your SCOP is bigger than mine. I'd love to know how much more efficient my system would be with Vaillant, we have few options in the US and looks like the tech is much better now, manufacturer data for my unit tops out around COP 4 for 35C flow, in 7C air. But I think the bigger issues with adoption is that system level thinking of insulating, air sealing, optimizing the distribution for low temps, and then finally not making things worse with temperature steps in the plumbing (as Heat Geek teaches so well). When most people only think about this stuff when their "box" breaks, and most contractors are obliged to quickly swap that box, it seems quite difficult for anyone but the "domain expert" homeowner to be able to pull all this together. I'm curious, as a business owner, how many of your customers just want their broken boiler fixed cheap as possible, and how many take you up on something as extensive as this, assuming you try to sell that to them, and then not sure if you try to act as a general contractor for the project, subbing out additional work needed to make it happen? Anyway, you are doing more than your part by setting an amazing example so thank you and hope this gets many others informed and excited to follow in your footsteps for their own houses!

[@caseydbani1419]

Great video, and lot of effort! I think a good air to air heatpump has even better efficiency, as it has less temperature difference to work against. Just pumps against 20°C inside air, and not to 32°C water.

[@twelvebears1971]

This really give me hope for our installation. We are in. 2018 3 bed semi and also have the plastic microbore coming down from the first floor. House is generally pretty warm but have no idea if the cavity walls have been insulated or not.

[@jondor654]

One simple way might be a drill at the corners and inexpensive boroscope .

[@ambrosiad1588]

Can you tell us more about the screed and how you got it so thin, (ideally post the company name 🙂). I've been told the minimum I can go is 50mm, I'd love to get it below 30mm

[@georgeb8581]

Cool ! Proud of you Man! But in any case with gas boiler we have less issues than with ASHP, only regs mate ….

[@geoffhaylock6848]

Interested to know how you control moisture within the home. Well sealed homes, which are good for thermal loss, often have little airflow and require something like an MVHR system.

[@gavjlewis]

I have done the insulation part on my terraced house (or townhouse if you like). The problem is i have backed myself into a financial corner. So my expected gas usage for heating and hot water is 4679kWh for the year so about £325+£102 standing charge. I also dont have any place for a hot water tank as the current boiler is in the kitchen in a cupboard. Im tempted to go with a twin head A2A unit for the majority of heating and an electric boiler for hot water and the really cold days in the winter as topup heating. Not really ideal granted so for now I'll stick to gas and see how things pan out.

[@jameshazelip3998]

Lovely installation as always 👍 however I would to see a video on how you run the system such as set temp and setback temps etc and also why you fitted a buffer and different brand cylinder instead of vaillants own 👍

[@dan.vitale]

awesome video. Can't wait to see your Solar/Battery upgrades coming soon!

[@myatix1]

Super cool video! Can you explain what cylinder you chose and how your DHW performs on the cylinder? It would also be really cool to have a follow up of the full system design! Including all the mass flow rates and velocity

[@ChampionCCC]

Can you do a video on the monitoring, with regard to what's needed / what should be installed, and what's nice to install but not exactly necessary ? Or to be more exact, what have you monitored which the Vaillant WON'T give you ? And have you looked at sending data into Home Assistant ? Going with Solar PV and Batteries will surely push you in the direction of a common "Energy" interface. Thanks again for sharing your knowledge and experience. I have the missus totally onboard now to dump the gas boiler this year :)

[@bennheatley]

Please post a video showing how you approach retrofitting ventilation with heat recovery!

[@shm5547]

Those are low bills, nice job! For comparison, our medium sized '80's 4-bed-detached bill for last month with conventional gas boiler (s-plan, on/off controls with Nest) came to £295 … These charges are based on your meter readings. VAT is included. Electricity - £108.80 Gas - £186.53 8th January 2024 - 5th February 2024

[@DrRogB]

Great video. I am looking forward to the rest of the project.

[@jonathangreener7734]

Congrats on getting your own heat pump up and running - look forward to watching efficiency on open energy monitor leader board. Question - (well, 2 actually) - 1. Which supplier or software did you use to design your UFH loops at 100mm spacings? 2. What size pipe did you use? I've been looking at 16mm pipe but seems minimum bend radius is ~ 160mm (so probably just about OK for 150mm spacing)

[@UrbanPlumbers]

Didn’t need design for UFH. You can do 100cc with 16mm if you go snail pattern

[@swisby3820]

Would be good to confirm what temp you generate and store hot water, 45C or 50C? Do you programme a legionella cycle at all?

[@nivenwoodfine1928]

How much was it to supply everything for the heat pump,including what the labour cost.underfloor heating,screeding. Wall cavity insulation,and wall insulation an loft insulation.EVERYTHING!!! I’m interested to know since that’s a pretty standard size house for most people ??????

[@davidscott3292]

Tens of thousands at a guess.

[@jackfulton6789]

A price point well out of reach for most people. Gas boilers are here to stay 👍

[@nivenwoodfine1928]

Yeah I know mate I’m a gas fitter I just fancied a laugh 😂

[@DrRogB]

Plenty of people spend ten k on a kitchen. It's pretty common for a house to get that sort of upgrade and for the cost to end up on the mortgage. In this case that "investment" has a return.

[@mattmackenzie1111]

Great work Szymon! Where are you getting the underfloor heating kit you are using?

[@stuartbrock7586]

I will be installing heat pumps, however, I do not expect to be able to use them in the depth of winter as the temperatures get to -30 Celsius. At that temperature the heat pumps simply can't keep up.

[@CoolMusicToMyEars]

Yes sure as a retired Aerospace Defence test engineer & previous to that a scientist of electrical & thermal measurements, One thing I would have insulated the slab before laying down, but that's a hell of a lot of work, I witnessed a builder full renovation of a house, once you stzrt that off there's no going back, When I worked in a UKAS standards laboratory, I created & designed measurement systems to push far beyond the laboratory given limits of accuracy capability, I'm a extremely fussy engineer things have to be right I won't say it's ok let it go out the door, were trained by UKAS - NPL & Aerospace Defence industry to be extremely fussy, I know with the good quality test equipment we had that the actual outputs were sometimes better by a factor than the manufacturer's given specifications, In the laboratory we also performed temperature measurement & generation of temperatures, in the laboratory we had to measure the temperature to within +- 1°C by various Triangular measurements, I like to push to the finite limits, two situations I cannot ignore, in the Cheshire where we live, it is not as good as say down south where the temperature is always warmer, I see many Air source heat pumps painted a white or cream coating, because I know black absorb the heat better, then why paint the outside unit in a reflective light paint, I noted Viessmann Air source heat pumps are painted dark grey colour, to me that would make sence to gain that little extra from the casing of the Air Source Heat Pump, I have no doubt the Valiant is good, but would placing of heat pumps say on a South facing wall might get that COP up even higher 👍🤔 Whats your thoughts on that as many will be using a Air Source Heat Pump to warm but not Cool a home 🤔

[@zakthetech]

Slightly surprised you did not add in some form of WWHR to drop the hot water usage and further reduce running costs.

[@stefanmalan5133]

Please give detail and describe all the appliences on the wall, for a new design what is all the components you used

[@_Dougaldog]

A nice tidy job 10/10, I see you decided to go with a buffer tank, or is it plumbed as a volumiser ?

[@Efficienthydronics]

believe he has it plumbed as a volumiser

[@UrbanPlumbers]

100l volumiser

[@davidtantz]

Mind blowing I am all in!

[@symonchester]

Loving my Daikin heat pump and im averaging COP of around 4, the only thing I have noticed is that it cycles when the outside temp is about 10 deg C or above. Ive tried altering weather curves but always seems to cycle when it gets warmer and not sure why... its no big deal as the house is warm and cheap to run but I guess the cycling could harm the unit over time.

[@teepee9466]

Such a fantastic installation. I’d love to upgrade my property to be more efficient and get off gas, but the cost of the upgrades is so high and the amount of hardware that would need changing is quite considerable. And there’s nowhere that could act as the plant room. Perhaps a few years from now, though. And at least I know to look for a Heat Geek Elite installer to ensure it’s a good job! How long did it take to design the system and accurately survey the thermal characteristics of the property?

[@paulkent5338]

Urban plumber. Why did you go for the 5kw model over the 3.5kw model considering your calcs say 3.28 heat loss?

[@UrbanPlumbers]

3.5 is the same unit - I should gauge gone for 4kw viessmann

[@joncoke8208]

Love these videos such a knowledgeable engineer

[@Chas-no4pb]

RE BUFFERS, HEADERS, VOLUMISERS: I have watched just about every video you have made (no small praise I can assure you) your installs are class with amazing pipework skills but have to say I'm so amazed and disappointed to watch you install a whopping 100L buffer on your own system ?! What ever has happened to "most systems do not need a buffer with a heat loss of around 7,500w (ish) ie bigger systems and "I have only installed 1 buffer in the last 12 months" or the video done at Michael DePodesta's house where you removed and commented on unnecessary buffer installations and costs with extra pump instal and savings up to 38% by removing same there etc etc ?? I am literally just about to have my system installed (same pump and size) and with only a 5699w loss and I insisted from your advice and guidance that a buffer was not included !! I now have no clue where I now stand, I would appreciate a reply please asap (I see most comments go without a reply but this is really important for many of us OR better still a reply AND do a video very quickly to clarify this entire confusing situation.

[@UrbanPlumbers]

It is a volumiser not a buffer. All of those things have a reason and it’s place. The problem is when people chuck them in not understanding why it is done.

[@PeterT-u3x]

Design is key.....Who can I contact to get the correct ASHP new build design completed ? Have you got anyone within the Urban Plumbers network who can design my underfloor Vailiant Heat Pump heating system for me.....

[@UrbanPlumbers]

@user-qy1mv6yi6u yes email me

[@ianmarsh4712]

Would I have a heat pump - Yes, Am I a skeptic about ASHP's - Yes (probably) but only because the majority of installers are currently not at a level where installation can meet expectations of the home owner..... Plus you don't like to travel outside of the M25 to do installs 🙂 Good video yet again thanks for sharing - thumbs up

[@mercian8051]

Great Job! I’m interested to know why zoning decreases efficiency?

[@paulp82]

Szymon this is really making me rethink one of my development Jobs, I had an existing floor that I was going to insulate with the Lo-flow panels and then tile on top but I trust/know you know your stuff going direct. Also you mentioned a 25-30mm screed but I thought you needed 25mm over the ufh pipes, is that different with the screed you used? Many thanks

[@cc-tf3tb]

Really enjoyed watching this video and will follow along for updates on performance. Have you any experience of milled UFH and use with heat pumps. I have an un insulated slab and would love UFH without having to lose any height in the room by building up on top of the slab.

[@opentrail]

Can you explain why you hacked your Vailiant heating controls to work with the Glowworm boiler? Why was this necessary and what did you do? Can you clarify the height of the retro ufh + tiles, as it wasn't clear to me. You decided for no underfloor insulation and instead used the existing slab of concrete as a thermal conductor + the cement on top, and as heat rises, limited 0.5kw loss is acceptable? Great content.

[@pauladams5673]

Yes, I want this system but I don't want cavity wall insulation.

[@copperskills3973]

The only issue we have with low radiator flow temperatures (gas with weather compensation ) is that the humidity is quite high throughout the house. We’re looking at an mvhr unit it to combat that

[@johnzach2057]

Maybe get a dehumidifier 🤔. They are quite affordable.

[@copperskills3973]

@@johnzach2057😂. I’m a heating engineer with 2 teenagers in the house. Two teenagers (girls) produce un godly amounts of moisture in the mornings with their showers. The house is completely air tight so a dehumidifier will not keep up I’m afraid. We install MVHR’s through our sister electrical company so it’s not a problem. Thanks for the hilarious comment. Made my afternoon 👍

[@_Dougaldog]

@@copperskills3973 So your humidity problem is caused by lack of ventilation rather than radiator flow temperature ?

[@John_Findlay]

I'm doubtbul about a heat pump for our terraced house as the back garden is tiny and totally enclosed, and we can't put heat pumps in our front gardens as it's a conservation area. However, it's good to see you getting serious efficiencies from your installation. What's that small cylinder in the middle of your set-up? Looks like a Cordivari buffer tank of some sort, and from the diagram it looks like it sits on the return side of your heating loop, so what's its role in your system?

[@markroman3111]

Lovely installation. You the man! Looks like a space craft warp engine. I like my boiler , its the best its only 95% , cost E120 to service. Only use it around 5 to 6 months a year. So the moral of the story is , what was the cost of your whole system plus insulation . How much carbon foot print was create buy manufacturing the components. The old boiler is now also a carbon foot print that you have created. How long will it take to make it value per money for the system to pay off. 20 to 30 years. In that time new tech would have been developed. Check out solar. There you can go wrong. Just add. You cant install a heat pump if your house is not very well insulated. Boiler heat up house super fast but heat pumps super slow. Another big problem that no one has a foggy idea. The National power grid. If 20 ppl in area add pumps , oh my goodness, the current load??? Oh my electric car , how about that. Heat pumps and ev will kill the grid . Dont forget to look out side...

[@UrbanPlumbers]

Average running power in is 450 watts so same as most houses background electricity use. Cost me £0 to install as grant paid for all the kit. I would have insulated and renovated anyway even if keeping gas. Slow is the way to heat your home with any heat source - gas/oil/heat pumps anyway - it way more efficient and cheaper that way. Old boiler got sold on ebay to someone who will get it installed in their home, so no wastage here. Your statements are pretty much wrong on all points and I could address them in much more detail - but can’t as I am mad busy installing heat pumps - fully booked with heat pumps for the foreseeable future - so luckily not everyone thinks the way you do!

[@airspike1]

Good morning Szymon, one question please, if your heat loss calculation gave a figure of around 3Kwh heat loss was there any reason why you did not specify the 3.5Kwh Vaillant Arotherm Plus unit rather than the 5.0Kwh unit you did? Just curious!

[@UrbanPlumbers]

3.5 is the same unit with capped top. Would not modulate any lower and would take longer on DHW. 3.5 unit is a bit pointless as it is. I would love a real 3.5 unit - not a capped 5, that would be awesome

[@francoporco9780]

How do you get the hotwater up to temperature also you’ve had to do extensive renovations to get the property ready for the heat pump. What was the cost to install and what is the return on the cost spent. Thanks great job

[@johnlawrence9066]

What about the hot water temperature? Need to guard against legionnaires .

[@UrbanPlumbers]

DHW done to 50c with wekly over 60c cycle

[@JamesJenksphltd]

Top work as always. Hows the performance comparison with and without the volumiser connected?

[@wimdsock9419]

Lovely install. Do you feel that the immersion booster will be necessary with your R290 heat pump? I'm in Scotland, with arotherm plus and always use only the heat pump to heat the water regardless of outside temperature.

[@MrButuz]

Yes I am thinking of going the heat route pump in a year or two but first off, I want to replace my old combi boiler with just a hot water cylinder and then use overnight cheap electricity to heat my water via immersion heater to begin with. (I can then get rid of the combi boiler cancel the gas etc save money on gas fees and potentially work on installing some more efficient piping and radiators ready for when I do go the heatpump route). Then the heatpump can heat my existing hot water cylinder, and heat the new radiators too (and possibly underfloor heating in my garage if I am lucky). What do you think of this plan? I also have a small solar and battery system so I think it will work well eventually when it's all finished.

[@robertlamont9455]

The full year results will prove interesting Szymon.... UFCH with high thermal mass and improved insulation is certainly the ideal way to go, but I wonder how many customers will be put off by the disruption, even though it's necessary. I'd toyed with the idea of a heatpump (GFCH + rads) for my 10 year old house, when the effect of phased addition of insulation dropped the total annual heating below 10,000kWh. However, with unreliable mains power and winter temps dropping to -16, I bought a UPS for the GFCH instead - I realise I'm stressing the boiler (Buderus) on occasion with a target house temp of 21c and weather comp, but 12-13 cycles per day is unavoidable with a minimum output of 7.2kW and losses under 4kW/h. For running cost comparison, my 100m2 place had a heating bill under 500 quid last year, again with a -16 period, and I'm seeing at least a 20% reduction in gas consumed for this year in the final insulation phase. Best of luck with your new place, and keep going with the videos, they are both interesting and educational.

[@radfoo]

Hi. Great info, few questions though. Why did you choose the 5kw over the 3.5kw version? Interested in the design temp of -2.7? I have been messing around with Heat Loss calculators (currently using the Heat Punk one) and wondered what design temp to choose, is there a formula or reference you can choose based on location, sea level etc. ? Looking at your plan, the expansion vessel in the top right, is this in addition to one in the heat pump or does it not have one built in? Is the main benefit of the buffer to reduce cycling? Although less cycling surely heating more water in the buffer costs more? How many litres is it? Is it really needed? Love learning about this stuff, great work and great videos, thank you.

[@Wayfarer-Sailing]

Well done - great early results!

[@Group51]

Amazing. Did I see a buffer tank? Was that because of the underfloor heating?

[@UrbanPlumbers]

It’s a volumiser

[@lazocar1014]

I was hopping you'll be talking about your pipeing setup. As I can see you have a buffer installed is this because of zoning? How did you setup the zoning and underfloor heating? How long are your pipe circles in UFH?

[@UrbanPlumbers]

no zoning. no buffer. just volumiser. UFH pipe length is 75m per loop at 100mm centers

[@lazocar1014]

@@UrbanPlumbers is voulumizer needed for all the UFH or just in your setup?

[@lazocar1014]

@@UrbanPlumbers Will I get beter circulation if I go with 50m per loop on my UFH or it doesn't matter?

[@UrbanPlumbers]

@@lazocar1014 uo to 100m is acceptable if using 16mm pipeworks. I wanted the lowest possible pressure loss for lower pumping power.

[@lazocar1014]

@@UrbanPlumbers I'm trying to do UF pipework as yours, so 16mm at 100mm and I was planning to go 50 or 60 meters loops and 28mm from HP till manifolds(I have 2 manifolds). Now the question: Is the Valiant Arotherm pump capable to circulate through the system with the lowest pump power or do I maybe need to upgrade from 16mm to 17mm in loops and from 28 to 32 for manifolds to achieve better circulation? I'm in the process of building a new house so now have a chance to design UFH the best way possible.

[@simondownes5010]

Hey Urban Plumber! i enjoyed your vid as usual. One question i did have, you have a cordivari tank in your install, are you using this as a buffer tank or volumiser? If so can you explain your rational? Also i noticed a few points from your open energy stats. 1 - your hot water heat up cycles are generall peaking out at around 45 deg C, i pressume you are not living there or do you have some other method of heating the water beyond this? 2 - you seem to be getting a delta T of around 2-3 deg C for your heating system, ive heard you talk of a design delta T of 5 before, is this lower figure what you expected? Thanks in advance!

[@gavinf2243]

Would be interesting to see what kind of mvhr system you go for

[@christianstewart09]

Great content as always. Love your plant room. Why did you go for a 5kw unit? Raver then a 3.5kw if your heatloss was under 3kw for your property. Would love some more information on this installation. Your flow and return from the unit looked like 22 mm? Last question: Did you install a buffer, or did you pipe that as a volumizer. I guess you zoned it so need to minimum volume. Interesting if that the case volume has not effect your efficiency. Don't keep these trade secrets to yourself, I'm doing my houes this year 😮😊 please keep up the content.

[@UpsideDownFork]

3.5 and 5kW units modulate down to the same minimum so the 3.5 is a pointless unit 👍

[@johnzach2057]

@@UpsideDownFork are they the same unit just with different firmware 🤔

[@UpsideDownFork]

@@johnzach2057 Download the data sheet and make up your own mind 😉

[@UrbanPlumbers]

I think your own 7kw is oversized. Would a 5kw do your house?

[@christianstewart09]

@@UpsideDownFork shit I've been installing 3.5 units well you don't ask you don't know I guess

[@colinbell8231]

Excellent video, inspirational.

[@LawrenceTimme]

No chance. Ill be sticking to gas for sure. The cost to do all this work and the radiators being such low temps wouldn't be much use. Makes more sense to blast the gas on for a couple of hours in the morning and evening to take the chill off. This might be ok in a new well insulated house where someone works from home and has the heating on all day.

[@ebebop]

No doubt heat pumps can work, as an heating engineer I have found they are out of most peoples price range. Out of interest could you put a price on how much your install would have cost if it was a customer paying for all the insulation, underfloor and heat pump on your size house?

[@nickbea3443]

So are EPCs from new builds in the last 30/40 years just rubber stamped certificates base on the housebuilders design, rather than actual as built check? Our 2000 house had missing insulation that NHBC/ house builder begrudgingly sorted cheaply. It is now failing and I'll have to get it done again this summer but installed correctly and to a better standard.

[@alexfleming3852]

Great job, great video. Fantastic.

[@hadjarramouche3404]

Hi mate, well done my only disappointment, if we ever get to educate customers that Radiators are to warm, the house not for cooking😂 and if anyone watching they could see how simple and easy to have an efficient system

[@TomMorris1]

Great video and install. What are you using for the smart immersion control? would it be possible to get the manufacturer name and model?

[@bobphillips2188]

Wow, that's excellent! I wish I'd had your input before my heat pump was installed. However, mine was a 100% grant installation, and I had little say in how and where and what etc. I'm NW Scotland by the sea, so it's not much colder here than down south, but winter is around 6-8 weeks longer. I have had it confirmed by an independent - Heat Geek trained - engineer (there are only 2 within a hundred miles!) that my system is oversized - 11 kW Arotherm NOT Plus, sadly - so unless I have all the emitters in the house open all the time, the pump cycles so often it would be laughable if I didn't know the heat pump will probably fail long before it's so-called design life is even close. The engineer suggested a 30 litre volumiser between the end of the emitter return pipe just before it returns to the pump, as the pump is oversized for the volume of the system as it stands. He reckoned the installation itself looks sound, my wall cavities were filled as part of the grant, the loft has more than 300 mm of insulation, and the house has a 75 mm stud inner wall liner filled with mineral wool. There's not much more I can do with insulation. Even if there was, this could exacerbate the cycling problem! But a question, if you haven't already binned this too long comment: Could I, should this pump fail soon, simply replace it with, say, an 7-8 kW heat pump or similar, and of Arotherm Plus iteration, without changing any or little of the other hardware? (I get, over the whole year, 2.5 kW out for every 1 kW in, using this as my yardstick [and not the equation I have seen elsewhere which seems to produce a number that means little regarding cost of kWh in, to kWh of heat produced] It gets down to 2:1 in zero C weather, and 3:1 when it is warmer but heating is still needed. At 26p per kWh at present, which averages £107 a month round the year, including VAT, but not standing charge which I would be paying anyway, as I did when I had a solid fuel CH system, so kind of a like-for-like comparison, coal and wood cost twice that (!) I'm not too disappointed. At current coal and wood prices - the pump was installed just as rates for everything were spiralling - I believe it would be triple at something like £3,500 a year!! I know it can get more than a tad obsessive, trying to tweak heat pumps, and I have done my best, but SCOP figures in excess of 3 (3.2 minimum, according to Heat Geeks) don't seem feasible. I have only a State Pension, so don't have the finances to experiment further. Any help would be totally brilliant, though I don't expect it. Sorry for my usual rambling on and on (-;)~

[@DrRogB]

Sounds like you need to sell your heat pump or sell the hot water it produces to your neighbour.