500% Efficient Heat Pumps - Are They Real?

[@jacko101]

I'd only have one if you install it. 😄

[@aidandillon9520]

Me too! 😊

[@elslopez]

Same

[@CommercialGasEngineerVideos]

Hear hear, that's a good shout. Unless you get the right installer like our good friend, then there's hardly any point.

[@neilbissett1240]

And me too great video mate 👏😎

[@tomroguk]

100% agree, would totally take one on just heard too many horror stories of bad installs!

[@Ben-gm9lo]

You sir, are an artisan of your trade. I absolutely love your content and never miss a video. This one in particular was ace. Professionals and pioneers like you are making our human inhabitation of this precious planet a bit safer day by day, little by little.

[@TuubiMun]

even his copper is extra shiny...

[@limeparallelogram7221]

I’ll be really honest here, I always used to think of plumbing as kind of un unskilled / boring labour job but you and your videos have single handedly changed my mind. The quality, care and talent you display in these videos is so evident it’s inspirational - so much so that as someone who is currently studying computer science at university, I’m considering spending a few years installing heat pumps after I graduate. It’s something that I feel is such an important part of the decarbonisation process and there aren’t enough installers like you. ❤️

[@Tim_Small]

After you do that, use your software engineering skills to create some software to help out the rest of the heat pump industry...

[@EB1156]

I live in the Northwest of the USA and am installing a heat pump and underfloor heating, partially based on your and other's experiences. None of my friends/ colleagues understand why or what I'm talking about because what we see here are mostly forced-air furnaces or, less often, air-to-air heat pump systems. I just wanted to say thank you and keep the heat pump content coming. Eric

[@goldenretriever6261]

Washington? Not that cold in the winter. Not sure these systems will work in places like Montana or Wyoming without back up heat.

[@calmeilles]

@@goldenretriever6261 Worth searching for examples here and elsewhere because there are people for whom they have worked. I think Alec of Technology Connections said that his system functioned in the -20°F arctic blast, possible on his side channel. But certainly it is necessary to know the limitations of a system and under what conditions alternate heat would be required.

[@ram64man]

I have a heat split in buffalo ny insulation is key far higher than regulations us key , r30 minimum and insulate the external connected wall as well , the underfloor and main house all 1900 didn’t cope with 14f and needed supplementary support, the annex with modern insulation runs s dankin air to air 16kwh air to air is the best way to go in my experience heating 2600 ft property we have no removed the air to water system completely and gone for a 55000 btu Bosch tankless heater , and had no issues keeping it at 75f yet still keep the air to air heat pump as that has been brilliant

[@rogerphelps9939]

Anyrhing that burns fossil fuels for heat will be banned eventually.

[@razvanlex]

@@goldenretriever6261 These systems work in Norway, Sweden and Denmark since the '80's and before. If the temperature drops many degreed below zero they all have back-up electric heat. I'm using one heat pump for my house that has a gas boiler for back-up (and for DHW) and the vacation house has also a heat pump but with an electric boiler as back-up. I love in Romania and two weeks ago it was -14°C. The total cost for one heat pump was 2.700 EUR, installation included.

[@richardcorns8553]

Always love your videos, and find them a great way to understand how heatpumps work. We've had our Viessmann 150a 10kw heatpump installed since end of October last year and we're over the moon with its performance. Currently its 4c outside and the pump is pulling 1.04kw to provide 5.43kw heat. Flow temp at 33.7c UFH throughout. 22c temperature in the house. Very cosy.

[@zyks4628]

Agreed. I had a Viessmann 151 10kw heatpump installed last May and have been delighted with it. System SCOP to date 4.6. Heating SCOP 5.1, DHW 3.6. Currently 5C outside, flow temp is 29C and house at 22C!

[@JOOI525]

Great example of doing it the correct way around. Lesson to everyone has to be 'do the basics first', - improve a homes insulation. I like many others get great pleasure and inspiration from watching crafts people at work. I know it takes a lot of effort to put the videos together, but it is appreciated.

[@TomTomicMic]

Improve the homes insulation by fitting 50mm foam and plasterboard internally to external walls (As well as loft insulation and double glazing) and your bills will be half anyway £6k cost, it's not worth doing the heat pump/ solar/ battery malarkey as it's not economical in a 10 to 15 year span (It's lifetime!) cost £23k!?!

[@UrbanPlumbers]

@TomTomicMic internal wall insulation can be very tricky. Most builders just do dot and dab which is a recipe for a disaster. Correctly done IWA without leaving any air gaps between insulation and the wall is tricky, expensive and very few builders know how to do it correctly.

[@m0aze611]

I’m not a sceptic but like most do my homework, at my age I want comfort and as a bonus save a bit at the same time. We are il informed and lack data for our own homes. I can only do a few of the things you’ve done and my EPC is already at C and it needs more loft insulation. My boiler will need replacing in the next few years and I;m already preparing for a ASHP. It’s not about ROI as I’m too old. Great vid thanks Mike

[@MG-qo5ge]

You are quite right 10/ 12 years ago I had a system specified by others and it came with a non inverter 8.2kW air water heat pump with no weather compensation ...a bit of a disaster the unit kept cycling and COP never got much better than 3.4, I have now after testing and gone back to basics and come up with a figure of 3.4 kW to heat the house to 21'C at -5 'C with modern refrigerants and DC drive compressor and fans I have found a heat pump that will cycle down to 800 W. the moral of this is do the sums right by an independent designer be careful with back of envelope design and figures by 'expert' sales people.

[@johnfreshwater3790]

Excellent video again. I am a huge fan of heat pumps and have one in my 200 sq metre 220 year old stone house and it's cheaper to run than the old oil boiler. But trying to convince people that they work is hard work and I have given up trying My house is also on radiators only a garden room has underfloor.

[@steveearley8352]

I’m always so impressed with the quality of the work. My little fizzy brain loves seeing how well explained it all is as well as how neat and tidy everything is. Sets such a high bar for everyone else!

[@terryrigden4860]

Very interesting we also had our Vaillant heat pump installed mid January. I'm getting reported COPs of 5+ on the App and didn't believe it, but as you are getting that from a proper heat meter I'm inclined to believe it now. I took careful note of all the pointers for good heat pump system design installation and set up from your previous videos and its paying off , THANK YOU! Since 17th of January we have only used 180Kwh and have been warmer and more comfortable. We are getting the bulk of our power at the cheap rate and about half the time we get through the day on battery power plus a bit from the solar panels which has cut our average heating cost to about £1 a day. I'm expecting to heat for free by the end of the month as solar production increases.

[@mmettania]

Congrats on the progress and finally getting your own heat pump.

[@UrbanPlumbers]

Thanks 👍

[@rolandrohde]

Thanks for providing these insightful videos! I also have the 5KW Vaillant system, but installed more "traditionally" with a small buffer and everything. My COP values are not that high usually, but the overall energy consumption looks good so far. If the trend continues we will end up with about 1500kWh of electricity for the first year, despite having more than one cold spell going all the way down to -13°C here in Germany. I am on the fence about asking my Installer for a quote on some changes to the system, since it likely won't be worthwhile...but I haven't ruled it out yet.

[@rabhaw2327]

Strange that the average 2 bed house uses around 2000 kWh a year without a heat pump?

[@rolandrohde]

@@rabhaw2327 The 1500kWh are just the heat pump

[@ronmorrell9809]

The engineering and craftsmanship used with your installation is amazing. Living in USA, my house is much less historic than yours. By using a mini-split air-air heat pump with wall cassettes, I was able to do the installation myself of a 3-ton unit which heats half of my house in one week. The circulating fan is very quiet, unless turned to high. I didn't disturb the old furnace, so I have recourse in the event of very cold weather. Our coldest weather was 18F (-7C) and I didn't use the furnace. Where appropriate, such a hybrid approach can significantly reduce upfront costs, with only a small reduction of savings

[@antonclaeys]

I have also installed my own vaillant arotherm 7 kw heat pump connected to my underfloor heating without buffers in a well insulated new build. I also have installed kamstrup heat flow meters. My SCOP is also higher than what the spec says should be

[@wajopek2679]

Nice job! Preparation is key to everything. Having space for a plant room is another.

[@Gazmaz]

That is my biggest issue with a change from our combi boiler to a heat pump. Space. :(

[@michaelridley2864]

Wow, great presentation, agree with other comments that was an absolute masterclass, inspiring to those of us looking to go down a similar path. Even to a lay person, your plant room was a thing of beauty. Thankyou, and please more videos.

[@Neilhuny]

Yes! That plant room was fantastic!

[@MartinPugh]

As always, your content is easy to follow and understand. We're just starting out looking at heat pumps as we have a relatively new build property and gas boiler but the more we learn the more we understand the process. You did have me a little worried at the start of the plant room section though when it looked like you were bringing in a buffer tank but glad to see it didn't make it into the final design.

[@UrbanPlumbers]

It did! It is a 100l volumiser and it is connected. Not sure if it is that much of a help yet, will run test with and without it soon

[@MartinPugh]

@@UrbanPlumbers I must have missed it it the final shots. We always look forward to seeing what the stats look like when you get to experiment.

[@meterpoint]

Very nice! Ignoring the insulation for the underfloor heating and says "to heck with it - I'm going to make the floor slab sit at 22C instead of 15C" is an interesting approach. I guess when the floor doesn't need to be *that* warm to heat the building (as the heat loss is now low enough and in this case it's tiled rather than hiding under carpet or wood) you are not materially increasing the losses through the floor to the ground and indeed the uplift in COP rom having the underlfoor likley offsets those heat losses anyway. Wish I'd thought of that when renovating a property! Daft ideas: Would it have been feasible to series-feed the radiators and underfloor? Rads first; to benefit from higher flow temperatures; then the underflor to really drag down the return. Might allow rads to be downsized furhter (or run at a lower flow temp) Rads setup for a dP of say 15 kPa, in parallel with an auto-bpyass, feeding the underfloor circuit. Rads would be hotter / more responsive. Bedroom TRVs coud then throttle down whist the heat pump feeds the floor. Or just a bathroom towel rail that feeds the floor towards the shoulder seasons? Why is the the valved off "Experimental" volumiser is on the return rather than the flow to the space heating circuit? (genuine question - I'm supposed to be putting in a fixie ground source unit this spring and need to decide whether to put the volumiser on the retun or the flow - and instructions suggest the flow rather than the return) Waste Water Heat Recovery probably the next best avaialble option for reducing heat load?

[@TC-V8]

Interesting video. I did the calculations on my house - similar to yours, small 3 bed link detatched, with an uninsulated slab and the heat loss into the floor with under floor heating was very high - nearly 1kw per hour - vs 300w which is current building regulations allowance.

[@FRZ5951]

I've just started my own self install of a Vaillant 7kw aroTHERM plus and am using some of your videos and tidiness as a benchmark!

[@clarkfinlay78]

My home is run on a combi boiler and I have for a long time now tried to understand the benefits of moving to a heat pump. As we have a combi boiler we don't have a hot water tank so where does that go is the first problem. We have solar and a decent amount of battery storage so can run the house completely on overnight electricity which is added to the battery and the solar tops it up or exports in the summer. So having electric heating and hot water would be super-efficient but when we got the heat loss calculations done it said we needed larger emitters to run at 45 degrees flow temperature, none of the rooms have space for larger radiators. Although we currently run our Worcester boiler at 45 degrees flow because MCS says it won't run at the design temperature me have another problem. The outside unit can just (by 10mm) be installed under permitted development and just passes the MCS 020 sound and its the quietest heat pump of its size (Vailiant naturally) but if the installer isn't exact we could hit major problems if we need to for planning after the installation. It just seems the whole process is nothing but problems. Plus now there is an idea of air-to-air heat pumps without any planning hoops likely cheaper even without a grant of 7500 and would cool in summer.

[@newsgroup6948]

Wow, great workmanship, that install is a work of art. Not far from you so wouldn’t mind getting a quote, I do have 10mm microbore though which I’m hoping isn’t a stopper.

[@johnburns4017]

Inside the garage on the wall between the garage and house, fix insulation. It is a large area. It all adds up. Easy and cheap to fit as well.

[@_Dougaldog]

Urban plumber has set this up as a showpiece to advertise his business, and the quality they offer. A showpiece backdrop for the videos. My Heat Pump paraphernalia is in a four foot square boiler cupboard, where the old boiler was removed from. Cylinder, volumiser (25l), expansion vessel, etc... Leaving the airing cupboard free for use. Two bedroom semi, moderate insulation.

[@johnburns4017]

@@_Dougaldog My point is _insulation._ there is a large area of wall that can be insulated very easily and cheaply. It will give a good bang for buck.

[@martinlemke4440]

Nice Video. At least the black painted wall in your plant room... Looks like a studio setup to display a system to customers. 👍

[@andrewdeans2179]

Thanks I have had a 8kw Ecodan heat pump installed. I calculated I only need 4kw and it’s showing 2.5 scop on hot water only . I got heat energy monitoring installed . I am looking forward To higher SCOP once the weather compensation sorted. I am encouraged by your videos and hope eventually to keep improving the system Cheers Andrew

[@charliespence5962]

Chasing El Copo is brilliant. I'm stealing that if you don't mind. We are also getting SCOP's well into the high 4's sometimes even mid 5's on our installs. It's all very exciting!

[@philipelliott5821]

Just two comments. 1 I think you should have put some insulation down on your flooring before you laid down your screed. 2 You are one of the best installers of heat pumps your understanding of system’s and workmanship is brilliant. But for the average Joe trying to understand a small part of what you do is a tall order. Then once it’s installed you need to keep a eye on system to see that it’s performing correctly. It takes up a fare amount of space . A lot of installer’s are not as good as you are. And it also costs a lot of money to have a good system designed and to have someone as good as yourself install it. Keep up the good work.🥵🥵

[@chrisgemmix0815]

I loved watching this because I have the highest respect for your work, and I am in the process of preparing my own house for a low energy heating system as well. And I am very pleased that the concept I came up with is similar to what my favourite professional decided to do for his own house! 🙂 In some ways I am actually more radical, for example I use 50mm PIR insulation on the inside of the external walls, and in order to avoid cold bridges I ripped out every single internal wall so I can have an uninterrupted layer of insulation. There will be underfloor heating throughout the house so I don't need any big radiators, and I put in ducting for a heat recovery ventilation system. In fact, I started out doing all this to make my house as suitable as possible for a heat pump - but meanwhile I am beginning to wonder whether the energy consumption will be so low anyway that it's not worth buying a heat pump. I might end up using the electric combi boiler that I installed as a temporary CH+HW system for good, possibly supplemented by a hot water tank with electric heating element fed mostly by solar power.

[@shm5547]

If you've got room for the solar panels, it's actually not a bad idea. An electric boiler only has an efficiency of 100% compared to 500%-ish for a heat pump. The cost consideration is 5x the number of solar vs. the cost of a heat pump, for the same heat output. The advantage of an electric boiler, is no moving parts, harmful gases or noise. Could be quite a low maintenance system.

[@enm22]

Now I'm going to have to move just to ensure you install one for me 😁

[@ianbeck5897]

Had it been in our previous home I'd have been on the phone to you in a heart beat as we were less than a mile away from you! I just searched for a Heat Geek Elite near me now. Having located our house, the site said that our heat loss is 17.7KW and too large an installation. I don't know how the site knows the details of our house, although I admit that it's reasonably large, old and detached - but that loss seems massive - especially as it has reasonable insulation, big thick walls, some cob, and Low E glazing. As things stand ATM, our oil boiler is running fine and isn't especially old. It is a little worrying that the Elite site suggests that we are loosing that much heat and it could be quite an exercise come heat pump time!

[@TheHeatingPeople]

The heat loss estimate on the Heat Geek Upgrades site used information available on line (Mostly the EPC), and data collected from heat loss calculations carried out on similar properties with similar EPCs. If you’ve made upgrades since the latest EPC, it’s likely your heat loss will be lower than estimated.

[@ianbeck5897]

@@TheHeatingPeople Thank you for explaining that. The EPC was done in 2013 by the previous owner. The basics of it appear to resemble the construction of the house but a fair bit has changed since that report was submitted - I suspect that these changes will have some positive affect upon the heat loss - but it will still be relatively high even so.

[@marcdebattista]

You simply make the best videos on the subject. Hats off to you! Have you got anti- fracture matting under the tiles? What are your thoughts on the TOG increase these surely have? What are your thoughts on increasing system volume with a large volumizer to increase efficiency when it's relatively mild outside (>10C) and to also store energy during the night thanks to the cheaper tariff?

[@jameshazelip3998]

Lovely installation as always 👍 however I would to see a video on how you run the system such as set temp and setback temps etc and also why you fitted a buffer and different brand cylinder instead of vaillants own 👍

[@stixstonesinvestors5413]

As always absolutely love your videos mate. I learn so much. Thank you 🙏🏼

[@UrbanPlumbers]

My pleasure!

[@iancooper6975]

Fantastic video, editing game is getting better and better, as is the content! You live in my hometown but I hope you're willing to travel a little! Planning a full house renovation in Warwickshire with extension work as well, My hope is to take the opportunity to add a heat pump and perhaps MVHR (if the building allows this from a sealing perspective). I'd love to use you and your team for the work!

[@tomthomas5929]

Lovely job Szymon

[@dickie997]

Great video Szymon, delighted you’ve been able to truely maximise the heat pump technology and great to see you invest up front (£’000s in renovations and insulation). I find the biggest barrier for folks is this upfront commitment and I hope vids like yours can change people’s perceptions. Good work. Personally I have gone the other way and hybrid my Viessmann 200 with a Vitocal 150. I’m doing renovations work one room at a time as it’s a very old (140yrs) Victorian Terrance in Newcastle. My scop is only about 3 and the two Viessmann units DON’T talk to each other so I’ve had to design and install a load of logic. I wish I’d gone with Vaillant but it’s too late now. I see that Vaillant has teamed up with OVO and Heat Geek, so that might bring some more interest here in Newcastle.

[@philreilly6959]

Great video. I really enjoy seeing how you go about your installations. Keep up the great work!

[@paulappleyard5832]

Your conclusion are spot on. It's a scandal that all new builds aren't HP. You've done a lot of work on the property to get it to that COP

[@UrbanPlumbers]

Yes, but all new builds are even better than my house in terms of insulation! It’s a crime that most don’t perform like mine or have gas boilers installed

[@johnzach2057]

@@UrbanPlumbers What are the thermal loses of your house at -5 degrees Celsius? And what of her buildings?

[@UrbanPlumbers]

@@johnzach2057 around 4kW at -5

[@_Dougaldog]

No new builds in Scotland will have gas boilers from April this year, England and Wales April 2025. The heat pump market will be very busy.

[@johnzach2057]

@@_Dougaldog hopefully the installers will do a great job. But I'm not holding my breath

[@ambrosiad1588]

Can you tell us more about the screed and how you got it so thin, (ideally post the company name 🙂). I've been told the minimum I can go is 50mm, I'd love to get it below 30mm

[@Phil-kt6hc]

Absolutely love your channel. Your instal is mint! Yes... I'm now completely sold on heat pumps. I just need to find an installer as good as you... Oh crap...

[@Umski]

Congrats 🎉 Looking at my own HP maybe this year - fabric seems okay but could be better - calcs and historical data seem to tally with 7kW at -2C for a 190m2 bungalow (2001 build but added loft insulation and changed glazing to 1.4 u-value) - the 7kW Vaillant seems to be the logical option but rads are all currently singles and would all need replacing to “go low flow” and suspect the aged Megaflow just doesn’t like anything below 50C having experimented a bit taking the existing boiler down - looking forward to analysing your openenergy data 👍

[@georgeb8581]

Cool ! Proud of you Man! But in any case with gas boiler we have less issues than with ASHP, only regs mate ….

[@smp289]

Nice. You'll soon be in the COP 6.0 group. My best to date after Vailant 5kW install. 6.3 for heating; yesterday. 3.7 typically DHW.

[@UrbanPlumbers]

Vaillant controller shows 5.9 already, but it’s not as accurate as OEM

[@_Dougaldog]

@@UrbanPlumbers Will be interesting to see how the readings from both compare, as you say OpenEnergyMonitor should be the benchmark. Will you be posting your data on their site ?

[@_Dougaldog]

@@UrbanPlumbers I found your OEM link 👍

[@jeffreyrex8232]

Can regularly outperform manufacturers design without issue at certain conditions. I like being surprised when commissioning new chillers.

[@normanboyes4983]

Syzmon - that surpassed excellent and is an absolute masterclass. The installation not only achieves excellent performance but the layout on the black background is ‘artistic’. Any chance you could link the cavity wall outfit you used?

[@UrbanPlumbers]

thank you ! - it is EPS bids insulation from a compnay called Arrow insulation - they were quite cheap actually - some £1500 for the whole job.

[@normanboyes4983]

@@UrbanPlumbers Thanks👍

[@RicknessJ82]

I'm so jealous that your SCOP is bigger than mine. I'd love to know how much more efficient my system would be with Vaillant, we have few options in the US and looks like the tech is much better now, manufacturer data for my unit tops out around COP 4 for 35C flow, in 7C air. But I think the bigger issues with adoption is that system level thinking of insulating, air sealing, optimizing the distribution for low temps, and then finally not making things worse with temperature steps in the plumbing (as Heat Geek teaches so well). When most people only think about this stuff when their "box" breaks, and most contractors are obliged to quickly swap that box, it seems quite difficult for anyone but the "domain expert" homeowner to be able to pull all this together. I'm curious, as a business owner, how many of your customers just want their broken boiler fixed cheap as possible, and how many take you up on something as extensive as this, assuming you try to sell that to them, and then not sure if you try to act as a general contractor for the project, subbing out additional work needed to make it happen? Anyway, you are doing more than your part by setting an amazing example so thank you and hope this gets many others informed and excited to follow in your footsteps for their own houses!

[@bennheatley]

Please post a video showing how you approach retrofitting ventilation with heat recovery!

[@martinlemke4440]

It would be great to see more in-depth details how you are logging your data from your heating system and which components are needed in detail. The out of the box data from Vaillant aren't enough to have a nice and complete monitoring.

[@doughay6263]

I'm in the process of installing a geothermal system. However, I did a knockdown/rebuild, rather than your ever creeping renovation... Cool stuff.

[@caseydbani1419]

Great video, and lot of effort! I think a good air to air heatpump has even better efficiency, as it has less temperature difference to work against. Just pumps against 20°C inside air, and not to 32°C water.

[@solarguy4850]

You made my day with the uninsulated underfloor comment. I installed hydronic in my basement slab without insulating underneath it (sides insulated) thinking the thermal earth mass (gravel) under the slab would be helpful for maintaining temperature. For years everyone said this was a big mistake due to “infinite” heat loss through the ground (despite earth being an insulator itself). Anyway .. I never noticed any unusual issues /losses with my system but nevertheless thought I made a mistake .. but this video actually supports that I may even have made a smart choice after-all by forgoing this insulation as thermal mass helps heat pumps big time .. and I’ll be installing one as soon as we get cold-weather propane units in our market. Thanks.

[@FRZ5951]

Excellent, would love to see a full schematic of your system.

[@davidtantz]

Mind blowing I am all in!

[@richardjgreenuk]

Great video as all your content is. I'm not an ASHP-sceptic but I like I think I am a realist. We're in an 80s house with microbore everywhere with the pipes either in the walls or buried inside the concrete floors downstairs. To move to an ASHP would require a full house renovation: walls off and concrete floors up to replace the microbore which would be unbelievably expensive to complete and probably make the ROI of the ASHP far beyond the usable life of the unit itself. Internal wall insulation is a nice idea but my concern is that [even by a little bit] it makes the rooms smaller and with house prices already stretching what people can afford vs. what people want and need in their homes, making rooms smaller isn't always palatable or even possible. Upgrading UPVC windows to newer, higher U-value units is also a nice idea but I've run the numbers on replacing our windows and the cost just doesn't justify the savings. Getting PV installed was great and with an 8kW system plus batteries we're producing more electricity than we need and in the Summer to Autumn months, the boiler is turned off completely and hot water is produced exclusively with the solar diverter. Call me old fashioned but I just can't shift the feeling that the everything you have gone through to get a system performing as well as it does is beyond the finances and economics of most people to do.

[@andrewkelly1485]

Symon you are the Davinci of Plummers !! 👌🏾 You have to do my ASHP and UFH, it would be a crime for me to have anyone else to do it, l dont mind paying even more that the average.. You'll hear from me soon

[@DMFPERFORMANCE]

Currently running at a flow temp of 25oC with a CoP of 6.7 today so far using the same 5kw aerotherm you have.

[@Autonomegast]

Wow! That is performance!

[@l2e4w6i8s]

Great video! It would be great to see a break down of the cost of heat loss upgrades achieved on the house and also the system cost to get an idea of investment in such a job. I feel like this is something people often are not willing to talk about, but should be known. Again, Great content as always. Your really helping the industry move in the right direction. I've just recently got my heat pump qualification and am looking forward to a new challenge as we move away from gas boilers!

[@twelvebears1971]

This really give me hope for our installation. We are in. 2018 3 bed semi and also have the plastic microbore coming down from the first floor. House is generally pretty warm but have no idea if the cavity walls have been insulated or not.

[@jondor654]

One simple way might be a drill at the corners and inexpensive boroscope .

[@myatix1]

Super cool video! Can you explain what cylinder you chose and how your DHW performs on the cylinder? It would also be really cool to have a follow up of the full system design! Including all the mass flow rates and velocity

[@DrRogB]

Great video. I am looking forward to the rest of the project.

[@BerlietGBC]

Love it , my longer term plan is to go heat pump very much based on your work I have watched over the last few years

[@Kwirks]

Definitely, after someone who isn't a fly by night installer, who ensures the basics has been done first. This is a major problem in our vast area of Yorkshire as at this moment we have only 2 approved installers. At that rate the Gov could give them away & it would still take hundreds of years to catch up.

[@Zaph31]

Great video as always Szymon. But if I'm honest this is exactly why our current heat pump targets are doomed to fail - a small semi-detached retrofit should not require someone as smart as you to do this much planning and designing just for modest gains (net).

[@derekclark7545]

I scoured my liquid floor screed with an industrial floor polisher using the pads that remove floor polish. I have rads that have fans under them, like kick space heaters mounted on the walls upstairs, these run on the UFH temperatures between 25 and 46 degs, so when the flow passes through them the fans cut in, if you put your hand above them it feels like cold air but all the bedrooms heat up in ten minutes or so. I have 40mm insulation on a concrete slab and that seems to work fine but the I only have 75mm glass insulation in the roof and access is not possiable to over 2/3 due to massive concrete beams that stabilise the gable end walls, the house was built in 1973 and there is a low level extension at the back that meets 2004 building regs for heat loss, so nowhere near your insulation values and that's why I have to run 46 degs max on my weather compensated glow worm system that has no mixing or thermostatic control on the ufh manifold, as you know the system controls run the heating flow and control the flow temperature. its costing me around £1100.00 a year now for gas but its on 24/7 from November to end of April with a 3 deg set back at night so I don't think a ASHP is going to save me too much what with the cost of installing it when I can do a new Glow worm boiler for a grand. (The 46 degs covers us for temps down to minus 10 - 12 for up to two weeks, that's the worst we have seen here) keep up the great work, I find it very interesting indeed.

[@patrickwheeler2646]

Great video brother! New builds will only get decent cop if the construction companies start valuing us hearing engineers instead of paying plumbers to chuck in microbore.

[@UrbanPlumbers]

The quickest way to push for better quality will be consumer driven - once shown what is possible, customers will demand decent scops, some already do as we know.

[@rogerphelps9939]

My 4 bed extended detached house has a lot of microbore from when it was built in 1979. It originally had a vented central heating system and the radiator valves were all coaxial which meant that the flow and return went to only one end of each radiator. This made for convenience of installation but not much else. As part of my upgrade for a GSHP, I converted all of the radiators to double ended with TRV and lockshield valves using 15mm pipes. The work included increasing the radiator sizes where appropriatw. All the downstairs radiators are double panel double convector and upstairs they are double panel single convector. An extension has a suspended floor with underfloor heating. The GSP is a 9kw Ecoforest. In spite of the microbore the whole system worksvery well with the COP well over 5 on some days.

[@geoffhaylock6848]

Interested to know how you control moisture within the home. Well sealed homes, which are good for thermal loss, often have little airflow and require something like an MVHR system.

[@shm5547]

Those are low bills, nice job! For comparison, our medium sized '80's 4-bed-detached bill for last month with conventional gas boiler (s-plan, on/off controls with Nest) came to £295 … These charges are based on your meter readings. VAT is included. Electricity - £108.80 Gas - £186.53 8th January 2024 - 5th February 2024

[@FrankReif]

Great point about the ground being a large accumulator. Its why I prefer suspended ground floors to be enclosed and conditioned with some MHRV supply. A DPM is worth it, but insulation isn't necessary. Instead, EWI that continues to the footing, perhaps with a perimeter drain/gutter storm drainage job, extends the path length the heat needs to travel to get round the insulation, eliminating the cold bridges and condensation risks. It's also worth remembering that MHRVs mainly recover latent heat from moisture in the home. If you have an exhaust vent in an airing cupboard/bathroom/utility room where that drying occurs, you basically get the most efficient way to dry clothing. It may not be as fast as a heat pump dryer, but it's cheaper and better for your clothes.

[@davedawson9851]

Hi Szymon. I'm currently looking for a reputable installer in North Wales. My new place is a stone cottage with 600mm solid walls and concrete floor. The only power available to me is the existing electricity without installing a new oil or liquid gas tank. Oil looks like a non-starter given the planned boiler ban and liquid gas could become expensive given current world events. Like others in the comments my main concern is getting hold of a good installer. Nearest Heat Geek Elite is 100 miles away! If I was on the gas grid I'd fit a gas boiler, basically because I've seen too many stories about bad design and installation of heat pumps. Yes I'll have a heat pump installed but I have to say it worries me.

[@DGT73]

Might want to look at IWI (internal wall insulation). I had a 14kW Mitsubishi in a Victorian stone terrace and it worked great, the walls act like a heat sink, don’t let anyone tell you heat pumps don’t work in old properties 👍

[@malcolmnew8973]

@@DGT73 I also live in North Wales with a solid wall terrace house. I'm on the gas grid but might still consider an ASHP if better grants were available. My main concern would be the quality of design and standard of fitting. The confusing somewhat suspicious ad campaigns don't help either. Plus lack of space for a plant room when I only have an aging combi boiler with no storage tank. Might consider a simpler air to air dry system split system with three or four point of use hot water points with solar panels and a battery (If I can find the space!) Won't be super efficient but air to air can still have a COP of over 4.

[@patrikj]

It's easy to exceed the COP spec if the outdoor temperature is higher or the flow temperature is lower than the conditions at which COP is specified, that's just physics. 🙂Our design outdoor temperature here is -23C, but the ground-source heat pump we're in the process of installing should hopefully maintain a COP of above 5 throughout the season.

[@swisby3820]

Would be good to confirm what temp you generate and store hot water, 45C or 50C? Do you programme a legionella cycle at all?

[@ChampionCCC]

Can you do a video on the monitoring, with regard to what's needed / what should be installed, and what's nice to install but not exactly necessary ? Or to be more exact, what have you monitored which the Vaillant WON'T give you ? And have you looked at sending data into Home Assistant ? Going with Solar PV and Batteries will surely push you in the direction of a common "Energy" interface. Thanks again for sharing your knowledge and experience. I have the missus totally onboard now to dump the gas boiler this year :)

[@AaronCornick]

I was waiting for this to come out was chatting to tommy about your install today great work as always look forwarding to watching this on open monitor

[@jonathangreener7734]

Congrats on getting your own heat pump up and running - look forward to watching efficiency on open energy monitor leader board. Question - (well, 2 actually) - 1. Which supplier or software did you use to design your UFH loops at 100mm spacings? 2. What size pipe did you use? I've been looking at 16mm pipe but seems minimum bend radius is ~ 160mm (so probably just about OK for 150mm spacing)

[@UrbanPlumbers]

Didn’t need design for UFH. You can do 100cc with 16mm if you go snail pattern

[@Neilhuny]

Very impressive in all sorts of ways! Subscribed Shoutout to your partner (Maria?) who gets stuck in and does things; high five

[@Neilhuny]

Checked back - Marie.

[@bastiat691]

Not a skeptic, but I'll still comment, good work mate :)

[@5axonm]

Hi, loving your work. This proves the sort of efficiencies that can be achieved with properly designed and installed systems. One question, why did you feel the need for a volumiser. I can only presume the system is so small this would lead to defrost issues? If this is the case, at what point do you advise the use of a volumiser.

[@julianchamberlain5399]

I'm building a super insulated house and plan to install a heat pump. Thinking of a propane Vallient 7kw one.. might fit it myself. Lots to learn first though.

[@UrbanPlumbers]

it makes no sense to fit it yourself. The materials alone will cost you more than even the expensive quote less the grant.

[@julianchamberlain5399]

@@UrbanPlumbers I dont think I'd get the grant. Seems like the quote i had was exploiting the grant. How long does it take to fit an ASHP and cylinder???

[@UrbanPlumbers]

@@julianchamberlain5399 around 5 days for 2 people plus 1 day for the electrician - so some 11 man days

[@julianchamberlain5399]

@@UrbanPlumbers Is that just to install hot water, buffer and heat pump? Never mind electrician who im paying seperately. No hot or cold plumbing to rest of the house. Just underfloor heating and hot water cylinder? Is that worth £7.5k?

[@UrbanPlumbers]

@@julianchamberlain5399yes it is. If you do it yourself your materials may cost exactly that plus you need to do all labour and know what you are doing. 5 days is for heat pump and cylinder work excluding all UFH and rads.

[@dan.vitale]

awesome video. Can't wait to see your Solar/Battery upgrades coming soon!

[@matt5401]

Great installation and results. Could you go over your settings? Curve? Setback times/temp? Dhw settings?

[@shaunpalmer9613]

You da man. I’d have it, if I can learn how to do it. Or get you in to do it. Great work. I’m impressed

[@gavjlewis]

I have done the insulation part on my terraced house (or townhouse if you like). The problem is i have backed myself into a financial corner. So my expected gas usage for heating and hot water is 4679kWh for the year so about £325+£102 standing charge. I also dont have any place for a hot water tank as the current boiler is in the kitchen in a cupboard. Im tempted to go with a twin head A2A unit for the majority of heating and an electric boiler for hot water and the really cold days in the winter as topup heating. Not really ideal granted so for now I'll stick to gas and see how things pan out.

[@jchidley]

It's great news that you can beat the manufacturer's published performance. That gives me more confidence in my design as I have tried to do everything to maximise efficiency: all my core pipework is 22mm Copper with mostly just bends and 15mm to radiators. I have very large emitters (K3 in some places, K2 elsewhere) and I am currently running the system at 35C flow using my gas boiler. So far, this winter, the performance is good. I don't want to "upgrade" to underfloor heating owing to the massive disruption to my house. I'll be installing a 5kw Vaillant in the Summer/Autumn and removing my Vaillant combi and removing the gas meter.

[@liamleech6844]

Tidy work mate 👌🏻 what’s that black backing board you have in the plant room? Starting my plant room in 2 weeks so would like to get it ordered in. Cheers

[@johndevlin980]

Brilliant content yet again, if I was younger it would be definitely be for me

[@joncoke8208]

Love these videos such a knowledgeable engineer

[@Bob_too]

Great job and of course Fabric First !! Can you share which type of Cavity Wall insulation you had blown in and perhaps why ? I think I’ve also found missing cavity wall insulation in our 2001 build house.

[@UrbanPlumbers]

eps bids insualtion - company is called Arrow insulation

[@oswaldconsultancyltd3150]

Great job. You have a hot water cylinder and is that a buffer or volumiser next to it that you rolled in?

[@mercian8051]

Great Job! I’m interested to know why zoning decreases efficiency?

[@cc-tf3tb]

Really enjoyed watching this video and will follow along for updates on performance. Have you any experience of milled UFH and use with heat pumps. I have an un insulated slab and would love UFH without having to lose any height in the room by building up on top of the slab.

[@PeterJFlower]

Well done, this is a great video, very clear and informative. The only thing I would add is a clear view of the plant room schematic, although the layout is fairly obvious to me. How do you get on with domestic hot water? Does the heating go off for long periods whilst the domestic hot water is heating up? Do you notice the temperature dropping in the house? I hope the cable in the cavity doesn't bridge the cavity and cause damp on the inside wall, I would be slightly worried about that. Probably be ok. I looked at the recent COP figures. The outside temp is going up, but your COP is going down, any idea why? Overall very good job, a nice simple and neat install.

[@UrbanPlumbers]

it is what is called 'Hot Water Priority' so hot water is never done at the same time as heating. COP is going down as my heating COP is around 5 and hot water is aroudn 4 - and now I am only doing how water so it will push the scop down towards 4 and then go back again in the winter. Just shows, that my system has the highest COPs in the winter!

[@jeanh9641]

I am nervous about getting rid of gas but I am getting an Octopus survey. A system like yours would be mazing.

[@UrbanPlumbers]

Good luck with your installation.. Push octopus to desgin to max of 40C if you can. Pay more if needed.

[@jeanh9641]

@@UrbanPlumbers Thank you so for your advice.

[@razvanlex]

Why get rid of gas? Wouldn't be better to kept as bak-up if it's already there? I installed in 2022 a heap pump but kept my 2019 gas boiler for DHW and as back-up. Only had a hole in the wall for the flow and return and some cables and that's all of the "plant room". No big boiler for DHW as the instant DHW gas boiler still does that job.

[@DrRogB]

If you keep gas you still have to pay standing charges and maintenance fees, if you bother. Obviously any standby system benefits from excercise but that's £400 a year better spent on an emersion heater, a couple of fan heaters and a social life. 😊

[@hughmarcus1]

A very interesting video. I have a long term build that we are self funding, so doing it in phases. It is a low energy structure with 250mm pumped cellulose in the walls & a warm roof design. It’s all air tightened & will have MVHR. As we live in the uplands I was always wary of air source due to freezing of the heat exchangers. Recently I had a conversation with a plumber who’s installing Viesmann units. He got their German Head Office to calculate heat losses for the structure & specify a suitable unit. I’m 90% convinced to go with it. I’m wondering if you’ve any experience of Viesmann? Thanks Hugh.

[@paulp82]

Szymon this is really making me rethink one of my development Jobs, I had an existing floor that I was going to insulate with the Lo-flow panels and then tile on top but I trust/know you know your stuff going direct. Also you mentioned a 25-30mm screed but I thought you needed 25mm over the ufh pipes, is that different with the screed you used? Many thanks

[@adriancross4]

very nice, trying to strive for this quality, hoping the new grant controls will make a system im doing this next week i can get running super efficient

[@markrainford1219]

Would you have bothered with internal insulation, if you had known about your empty cavity?

[@CoolMusicToMyEars]

Yes sure as a retired Aerospace Defence test engineer & previous to that a scientist of electrical & thermal measurements, One thing I would have insulated the slab before laying down, but that's a hell of a lot of work, I witnessed a builder full renovation of a house, once you stzrt that off there's no going back, When I worked in a UKAS standards laboratory, I created & designed measurement systems to push far beyond the laboratory given limits of accuracy capability, I'm a extremely fussy engineer things have to be right I won't say it's ok let it go out the door, were trained by UKAS - NPL & Aerospace Defence industry to be extremely fussy, I know with the good quality test equipment we had that the actual outputs were sometimes better by a factor than the manufacturer's given specifications, In the laboratory we also performed temperature measurement & generation of temperatures, in the laboratory we had to measure the temperature to within +- 1°C by various Triangular measurements, I like to push to the finite limits, two situations I cannot ignore, in the Cheshire where we live, it is not as good as say down south where the temperature is always warmer, I see many Air source heat pumps painted a white or cream coating, because I know black absorb the heat better, then why paint the outside unit in a reflective light paint, I noted Viessmann Air source heat pumps are painted dark grey colour, to me that would make sence to gain that little extra from the casing of the Air Source Heat Pump, I have no doubt the Valiant is good, but would placing of heat pumps say on a South facing wall might get that COP up even higher 👍🤔 Whats your thoughts on that as many will be using a Air Source Heat Pump to warm but not Cool a home 🤔

[@LauraJim-nf5ef]

Great video as ever. What's your take on split systems? I don't see much about them.

[@benkenta]

Interesting to see you were not worried about insulating the floor under the UFH. Almost everywhere online people say you must do this, but it is not always convenient in a retrofit. Does anyone think it makes a difference if the house is a cavity wall construction? As this potentially cuts the sideways losses in the slab...

[@UrbanPlumbers]

Makes little difference . I have been doing a lot of uninsulated UFH without any issues. Mine has been in almost a year now and I don’t think insulating the floor would make any difference

[@benkenta]

@@UrbanPlumbers Thanks. I guess insulating floors is really overrated, especially on a retrofit. And you have the added benefit of using it as a heat store. Just make sure you have a nice conductive floor covering like tiles...

[@teepee9466]

Such a fantastic installation. I’d love to upgrade my property to be more efficient and get off gas, but the cost of the upgrades is so high and the amount of hardware that would need changing is quite considerable. And there’s nowhere that could act as the plant room. Perhaps a few years from now, though. And at least I know to look for a Heat Geek Elite installer to ensure it’s a good job! How long did it take to design the system and accurately survey the thermal characteristics of the property?