500 Million Dollars & Zero Accountability.

[@TheGingerjames123]

The whole team needs a serious reality check. 500m is the same as the net worth of the Queen of England. It's been 10 years. People have literally died waiting for this game. People have started and finished college, had children and switched careers in less time. Set some boundaries and release a product.

[@Aefweard]

The project with boundaries was supposed to be Squadron 42, sadly that has yet to materialize yet either :(

[@streetroller1000]

Lol, I was a kickstarter backer. Haha!

[@MaakaSakuranbo]

Well, given the scope of the game it isn't too far fetched. CP2077 was 180m and way less ambitious overall. But yeah, wish they'd finally polish it up and make something playable...

[@unyieldingsarcasm2505]

10 years... man thats crazy when i stop to think about it. i was 18 then, finishing up highschool. in that time i went to collage (dropped out) joined the navy for 2 years, went to a trade school for welding, moved 4 times, and found my amazing wife. This game meanwhile has been nothing but a clownshow. madness

[@prlaughs]

at this point it will never get finish.

[@makenziewright3766]

"When you send CIG annoying emails... you are ACTIVELY SABOTAGING GAME DEVELOPMENT." -Chris Roberts Yandere Dev

[@ArmageddonEvil]

LOL

[@Vincent_Van_Vega]

To be fair... it wasn't Chris Roberts who drafted that statement, was Jake Acapella.

[@Justacheese]

@@Vincent_Van_Vega Then why did Chris let Jake publish the statement? He's the one in charge here so I would expect that he would at least get a brief glance at the stuff Jake wrote before it went public. And if he didn't have enough time to look at it, Sandy or anyone on the community team could have taken one look at the statement, decided it was a bad idea and scrapped the whole document.

[@JohnSmith-ox3gy]

Absolutely the exact same energy.

[@waltwhite8126]

Ok, what is their email? I'll gladly fuck over all the Star Citizen shills

[@RyllenKriel]

I like how "Road Map Watcher" is a passive aggressive label from the developers who released the very road maps for fans they are lying to! It's the exact equivalent of saying "How dare you hold us accountable to what we just said?" Saying nothing and leaving your community in the dark is an upgrade over this.

[@intheorigin0728]

Professor: “All these “Schedule-Followers” complaining about tiny things like me not showing up to class are distracting other students, and frankly, they are making it hard to educate you guys”

[@thomas6591]

Their staff are so insecure that they don't even like you discussing their actions on their chat platform: Spectrum.

[@daviddavidson2357]

@@intheorigin0728 That is so on point. Post it on the star citizen reddit. They'll be mad AF.

[@bagofnails6692]

@@daviddavidson2357 The whole thing is a bad situation at this point. If the game ever gets released, the balance will be all over the place, as the people who paid many thousands of dollars will expect advantages that lesser payers will not get. I do not play games where an opponent gets to move twice as fast as I do because they paid more than me to play the game. And that is not even taking into account the literal decade of emotional involvement that many have had to endure. I can no longer see a way out of the mess. The only way out would be for there to be a high level monthly fee to play the game for non pre-backers. But I'm not sure if that would work.

[@daviddavidson2357]

@@bagofnails6692 I backed it way back in 2014. Game is a mess. Barely runs on a current gen PC. It'll never be released, chris robber will probably have stashed away enough cash by the time it all falls apart for him to get a mansion in Panama and face zero consequences.

[@PlanetHell92]

Imagine if a village paid for having a bridge built, and 10 years down the line it is just 10 planks nailed together. "You weren't paying for a bridge, you were paying for a man's dream of a bridge".

[@DerdOn0ner]

Ever been to Berlin?

[@Ozhull]

Anybody who backed this game and is complaining about it not being delivered by now is a grade A moron. The amount of plan features compared to the size and age of the development team should have been a clear indication that this wasn't going to happen anytime soon

[@louiscypher4186]

@@Ozhull it's been a 9 years you cultist.

[@Chaotic_Jackal]

@@Ozhull That might have been a fair argument to make where it not for the company regularly failing to met any of their own deadlines and still only having a bunch of disconnected alphas to show for their literal decade of work.

[@Ozhull]

@@Chaotic_Jackal are you mentally slow? Do you not understand how what you just typed underlines my point??? The initial development team was not talented or experienced enough to take on this project, I've highlighted that and in response you've pointed out that they've continually failed to meet their goals for a decade... Almost like the team didn't have the experience necessary to meet this project

[@lukasr1166]

If you expect people with this attitude to finish the game, I don't know what to tell you.

[@First-Name_Last-Name]

I won't be surprised if they decide to make their own NFT/Tokens/Coins in the near future.

[@Darkmatterdwarf]

But I know what to tell them: "Come and invest in my new hotelchain on the outer ,oons of jupiter, every room will have a special star citizen console that is free to use for early backers!" 🤣

[@drunkenfox2519]

Yeah it cost me a whole 45 dollars I’m sure I’ll be devastated when they stop making updates

[@lukasr1166]

@@drunkenfox2519 45 dollars is no big deal. But when the people who spend thousands realize it's not going to happen, there's going to be shitshow.

[@toddtaylor6506]

Sounds like an organization whose main goal is to receive operational funding indefinitely and don't really care that much about finishing the product. People paid for a game to be developed, not some guy's hobby to be funded forever.

[@wfjhDUI]

1:39 This post illustrates the biggest problem with crowdfunding. They'd never dare to speak to a traditional investor this way but with crowdfunding the power relationship is reversed and there's no accountability.

[@headbangerdnb]

100%

[@jkb1603]

I think they took that money. Spent 50m to make a little alpha. Took the rest of the 450m and bought houses and yachts lol

[@PflanzenChirurg]

yea but with a fkin investor you get an inferior product.. DEAD ON ARRIVAL

[@Nerobyrne]

shame that the shareholders aren't the ones who end up playing the game, meaning there's a disconnect between the customers and those who provide funding.

[@Nerobyrne]

@@PflanzenChirurg no, you just get a product that makes money. Doesn't mean it's inferior. Plenty of games that people still claim to be the best games of all time had tons of investors.

[@kraigisboss]

Can I just point out Chris's last game he worked on was Freelancers and that was also the game Microsoft booted him from because he was taking too long and kept adding more things?

[@fleischtomate2435]

Up this!

[@firestarter000001]

I think every game he worked had this problem to some degree. Wing Commander series I think also had this problem. Fact is in the end he released superb, revolutionary games for their time, but it seems to make it work he needs some one with power controlling him. When SC started, I had hoped Roberts has learned in all those years from his past, and is more aware of his flaws, but it seems it isnt the case in the slightest.Seems he is finally in total control and is going full disaster Roberts on this one

[@johndonovan7018]

he has never released a single game really. he has been removed from every project and nobody would touch him or work with him. thats why he crowdfunded his latest ponzi, SC

[@riptors9777]

@@firestarter000001 Superb and revolutionairy? Hardly. X-wing and Tie fighter blew wing commander out of the water. The only thing that Wing commander had going for it was the storyline and the cutscenes. Something roberts was far more interested in then actual gameplay. Not to mention that genre is so niche that wing commander more often then not had zero competition. Not hard being number 1 in a ghost town

[@firestarter000001]

@@riptors9777 @john Donovan Imho you are going abit to far with your animosity towards Chris Roberts.I am very critical of SC, but X-Wing was released in 1993, while Wing Commander in 1990. I remember these times, nobody before believed that you can have such 3d flight simulator on a pc before. Same for WIng Commander 2. I think the production cycle was much faster then, so I wouldnt be surprised if production of X-wing hasnt started after Wing Commander showed them it could be done... And im pretty sure Chris Roberts played major roles in at least Wing Commander 1 to 3. Tough as i already said i believe the games were at all finished only becuase he had higher ups pushing him, controlling his worst flaws.

[@Xoruam]

I just imagine a 97 year old grandpa on his deathbed, saying "Damn, if only I had 2 more years, I would be able to see this game released... I remember backing this with my parents' money back in high school..."

[@tezwoacz]

It’s never gonna release a game like star citizen costs more than several billion to develop the scope is too big, for 500mil it’s good if you get 1/3 of it

[@gs8494]

They are so far ahead of the curve it's brilliant, 10 years ago they created sapceship NFT's, how can you not be impressed?

[@ReinertZerker]

Bro you're right. Lmao how did we not see it then?

[@Wingspand1]

Did Gabe do it first? At least the NFT's in these games do something, the stupid monkey is just gross looking.

[@Billinous]

@@ReinertZerker Because the original inventors NEVER get acknowledged. It is the one that shouted louder who is acknowledged. Also, remember the gaming media has selective amnesia so they treat everything as the first time it has ever happened

[@Marth667]

@@Billinous Also very fucking accurate. Looking at you apple.

[@irishbear8383]

Nice point, that thought crossed my mind when I heard about the 900J selling on the grey market for like $40k.

[@troodon1096]

"SC isn't a game, and you're not buying a game. You're buying into a man's dream." Exactly why I didn't give this any money and spent it on games instead of other people's dreams. I always love when the opposition makes my points for me. Seriously, the fact that some people actually think this is creepy. Those aren't the words of an optimist waiting for a game they paid for; those are the words of a brainwashed cult member.

[@bamcorpgaming5954]

100%

[@InvictusByz]

Or perhaps someone who has a very similar dream game? I swear, you just can't imagine someone looking and Star Citizen and believing in it?

[@joearnold6881]

@@InvictusByz ten years ago? Sure. Five, even. Now? No, that’s no longer reasonable.

[@Dragon-Believer]

@@InvictusByz what is the game? He's promised everything to everyone. At one point it was an FPS with ships being the map, at one point it was a botany sim, etc etc etc. It's not even possible for Star Citizen to be 1/4 of the games it's been said to be at one time or another. Not to the extent that would satisfy anyone. Space is not a type of game, it's a setting.

[@InvictusByz]

@@Dragon-Believer Space Sim is, in fact, a type of game and that's what Star Citizen has been promised as from the beginning. With the FPS with ships as maps, sounds like you're either talking about Theaters of War, which is more like a game mode, Squadron 42, the "campaign" of Star Citizen, or just one of the things that can be done while in game. Squadron 42 and Theaters of War are not currently available and I don't know when they will be, but you can already log in to Star Citizen, grab a gun and some armor, and do an FPS sweep-and-clear on a yacht for example. And your claims of "not possible" just come across as a bit closed minded, because most of the key features we already have were said to be impossible early on. Hell, the core premise of easily transitioning between physics grids was said to be impossible, not to mention the scale of the planets! There have been people even saying it wouldn't be possible to have 2 ships moving on screen at the same time, and we've already had the 990 meter Bengal Supercarrier do flybys in-game. Also, I don't think its ever been promised as a botany sim, but there's very likely to be agriculture of some sort. Certainly some form of botanical gameplay.

[@the11382]

This isn't the sunk cost fallacy anymore, its sunk cost insanity.

[@ArmageddonEvil]

And it's a good thing I never bought into the hype of Star Citizen...

[@Bleenderhead]

sunk cost galaxy

[@savant989]

the star citizen community and perhaps the developers themselves have devolved into a cult like following of all of the pushed back milestones, aka broken commitments.

[@Ace-Brigade]

It's only sunk cost fallacy for a few. I'm a backer but I'm not afraid to criticize when criticism is due. This game even though it's in alpha offers me something no other game can and I love it for that despite all its warts. That said communicating to the very people that pay your salary in such a manner is so ridiculously insane I have to pinch myself to make sure I'm not dreaming. I absolutely abhor the white knights that act like nothing can ever be bad about this company. For them it has almost become a religion or a cult and it's sad to see within my community though I call people out on it when I see it. I for one canceled my subscription and they won't get a dime more for me unless they reverse this decision and apologize.

[@All_Hail_Chael]

@@savant989 Worse fanbase in any game I'ver ever seen. Some of them are here in the comments.

[@Hierax415]

I was in my 20's single and in school when I bought star citizen. I'm now in my 30s, married, had a kid, have had three promotions, and bought a house. IF and I do mean IF this game ever comes out, I am no longer the same person that wanted to play it. I get maybe 3 hours a week of gaming in on a good week.

[@ErdnußRiegel6969]

Same as me

[@ramongraf1714]

Same, but I hope that we’ll be in beta when I’m ready to retire and then I’ll have a couple more hours in a week to peak in the game and prepare my grandchildren for the actual launch.

[@hijinxvr1027]

too bad it will take 3 hrs to setup your flight controls.... lol

[@7cuils567]

forreal, the game can be fun in a group but the time commitment is insane. I spend most my time trying to set up gear/ships and waiting on BS bugs. Not worth the use of free time at all, much less any money.

[@oxymoron02]

@@7cuils567 Stop playing it then.

[@TerminusTartaros]

"SC isn't a game, and you're not buying a game. You're buying into a man's dream." Yes, his dream of getting rich af.

[@benjaminh1034]

I love how like 3 sentences later the dude refers to it as a game multiple times.

[@JAMR0716]

Lmao

[@Marth667]

@@benjaminh1034 Its a dream when its convenient and its a game when its convenient

[@GrimSleepy]

@@Marth667 Hmm... that sums up the entire cast of the whole argument quite well...

[@cryptogaming9935]

Actually, Chris Roberts spends all this money immediately. I think last time i checked the cash reserve they had was like 15 million. Thats gone after 2-3 months if ppl stop spending, err "pledging"

[@madaggar9765]

"You get to give us money but you don't get to ask questions." 10/10 community management. Only the best from CIG and Chris Roberts.

[@uncannyvalley2350]

How Many People Play Star Citizen? We estimate that 427,994 people play per day, with a total player base of 15,017,337. Game Data Active development began in 2015, there was never a Kickstarter for a AAAA MMO, SC was born of the success of the kickstarter and uses tech that hadn't even been invented in 2012, it was only after they got so much money that a vote was taken and the PU 1.0 dropped in 2015. But look at you clones, parroting things you heard without even thinking to fact check them RDR2 = 900 million, 6000 staff, 8 to 9 years CyberPunk = 315 million, 5000 staff, 10 years Star Citizen = 250 million, 300 staff, 6 years. You can fit 1.8 million RDR2 maps into Stanton alone. They're doin OK. You should perhaps ask yourselves if you haven't fallen into a cult, seething over things that aren't factually correct, repeating the same mantras over and over and getting all toxic and hostile because people enjoy a game you know nothing about. Pretty obvious at this point who the cult really is, Star Citizen critics, most of which are no content trollfarm accounts.

[@uncannyvalley2350]

90% of these OPS are trollfarm accounts btw, this one included So weird

[@allthatishere]

@@uncannyvalley2350 Dude, why do you sound so triggered? And I think everyone here is using the term "cult" wrong.

[@uncannyvalley2350]

@@snarkywombat155 don't have a comeback much? You have 4 subs, you're literally nobody *#Cult*

[@uncannyvalley2350]

@@allthatishere dude why do you all need strawmen? Is it because you're a cult and can't handle any criticism? Gee that's ironic, your little house of cards falls apart pretty quickly doesn't it. But let me know when you have a better game, something no one on your little hate train has been able to answer in months *#Cult*

[@jonathansoko1085]

If this was 2015 i would understand the defending of CIG from customer. I would have aswell. But it isnt, its 2022 and the game is still in a poor alpha state. That is indefensible.

[@shadow7037932]

Completely agree. I was willing to give CIG a pass from 2012-2017 due to it pains of growing a new company and all that, and I'm saying this as someone who's got a BMM and a Polaris. The current direction they are going in is completely fucked. It seems like they are having major issues internally (not unlike what we saw with CIG + Illfonic + Star Marine a few years back) but they are doing their best to hide it.

[@ddlcp]

understand defending CIG from customer? you must be ez to plzzz....

[@ddlcp]

@@shadow7037932 its good to be optimistic about things but when it come to SC.. fk no.. considering the lead dev track & his past, I wouldn't say it would've been obvious but come on. We all hate greedy aspect of things but it does set things straight as in its at least something & clear as opposed to SC which had a clear start but when the never ending concept kept adding up, it became a dream project...

[@ageoflove1980]

Yep, to believe this really is the best they can do with 10 years and the largest, by far, video game budget ever... you got to be pretty delusional and so invested in the cult, you just cant see straight anymore

[@Giliver]

I don't understand the issue Red dead Redemption 2 took over 8 years to make.... And that's coming from an existing studio with a lot of experience. I simply don't see this development as taking to long considering its "competitors" development lengths.

[@SellswordArts]

I almost got into Star citizen. about 2 years ago. It looked cool. But then I started hearing about how money hungry the game was. And how it was probably never coming out anyway. My question is, with a game that's been embroiled in so much public controversy, and which people know costs large amounts of real world money to get good stuff in, and with the community that's already been playing it for nearly a decade... Who's going to buy this when it comes out? Seriously, If this game ever goes public, who is it aimed at? Anybody who wanted it already has it. And anyone interested in it is going to get scared away by a litany of different things, and a user base that's already been playing it for a decade on launch.

[@gilolaes4725]

As a project based developer, let me help out the company with millions of dollars: A road map shouldn't be taken as literal promises (i.e. we are 100% going to ship this feature at this time), but if you miss a date on your roadmap, it's reasonable to expect some level of explanation as to the progress of that feature, why the date wasn't hit, and why the new date is more likely to be accurate. If you just shift up dates for no discernable reason, then yeah, people are gonna get mad.

[@TMek42]

yeah, if you don't feel you need to explain roadmap changes then you might as well not bother with a roadmap in the first place

[@AaronAlso]

Not sure if you are familiar with CIG, but they will miss items on the roadmap. Provide not clear explanation, and the item will disappear for a quarter or two before coming back on the roadmap. Sometimes this cycle repeats a few times before the thing is finally implemented and is usually buggy or broken when it is. This is what SC backers call "industry leading development strategy"

[@elcid5033]

chris roberts need to make hard goal dates so the team has to work to goal and stick with the development plan, now it is like a duracel battery it will just keep going and going and going without any real goal or release date.

[@agonyaunt6325]

Thing is, this is nothing new. CIG have for years failed to deliver on expectations, yet, year on year, they have profited from talking about what is coming in the year, only then repeatedly fail to deliver it (and yeah, disclaimers, but then, they only ever deliver less than stated, not more). Backers bring in new backers by talking about all the wonderful things coming soon. They are happy to point to the roadmap as a fact when hyping the game, but the moment there is criticism about non-delivery, they point to the disclaimers!

[@DewmOnline]

As someone who was originally a huge fan of this game, and has roughly $500 spent on it.. and someone who's been following since kickstarter. The issue isn't one or two un-explained delays.. its literally 10 years of delays. They missed the 2014/15 release date and then later explained it was because of increased scope. They missed large modules like StarMarine and didn't explain why it was delayed until a year and a half AFTER it was supposed to be out. They've had large content on the "roadmap" for literally YEARS. Salvage is supposed to be a big gameplay loop, originally on the roadmap around 2016, it is STILL not out. I don't think they have had a SINGLE patch hit their own timeline, and most of the time after its delayed for days, weeks or months it comes out with only about half the features they said would be on there. I'm already over the game, if it comes out someday, great. If not.. its water under the bridge. But their attitude is garbage.

[@Dradeeus]

Literally saying that "the goals and dates we ourselves set are too unreasonable, what's wrong with YOU for making us try and reach them, that's pretty crappy of you. We're going to stop posting dates and goals, because of you." Not only is there a sense of entitlement that would not be acceptable in any other kickstarter project, but it's a low-key admission that none of their (again, self-given) dates were ever intended to be goals- and not even after a reasonable delay. You'd think that the funders and community came up with the project's lofty ambitions and set the goals and dates and the devs are just poor employees trying to work for these overbearing bosses.

[@cwg9238]

its no longer a project with a completed product in mind. its a cult. star citizen stays afloat milking the money of fanatical sycophants.

[@seliamila1005]

@@cwg9238 half billion dollar cult

[@doctorno3912]

When you set and move the goal post and still can't kick goals. But it's the communities fault 🤣

[@AlbertoMartinez765]

That Not what they are saying at all....literally this is why things exploded people who don't know how to Read and Understand a Post. they basically said we are getting Rid of the part of the roadmap that "Stuff we Hope to work on and get out " And replacing it with here the stuff that we Actually have a Good chance of releasing ON time. Anything that was more then 4 months out was most definitely NOT coming out we all knew this from over 10 years of all those things missing their dates. . TLDR: I would rather have a roadmap that actually Had REALI Can Count on this being released" vs a bunch of stuff that was 6 to 9 months out to get G Baited with all year long. CIG did a shit/awful job of explaining this

[@jolmanus]

@@justcows7772 Stop making sense and calling out their Bullshit lies. Can not have that the SC cultist show up and make themselves look uneducated as always. They then run back to their safe space "forum" to rub each others belly's to make it go away.

[@zanicar4087]

I was a SC VIP and concierge member. Got refunded more than 5 years ago simply citing dramatic change in direction from original marketing and stated objectives. This company was dishonest and incompetent from the very start...

[@gazzy9136]

Because they are probably off drinking mimosas in the hot sun on the beach with the “backing” money, then pouring only 10% of the actual “backing” money into it lol

[@andariel654789]

I've recently read in a local gaming magazine a piece defending this "game" because after all the starting ships are so cheap and you don't need to buy anything else, and that people gifting other people more expensive ships is so common. The rest of the arguments could be boiled down to "it's so immersive, and it's been something all of these players have waited for all their lives, so it has to be good and if you're not enjoying it there's something wrong with you." And thusly my subscription to the magazine was ended.

[@CThyran]

Gaming magazines still exist?

[@andariel654789]

@@CThyran It's less about games and more about pushing the reviewers political viewpoints.

[@CThyran]

@@andariel654789 That's somehow a step downward from the straight shilling they used to do. Impressive in its horribleness.

[@easternrebel1061]

I'd argue that too much immersion is a bad thing. A good case is RDR2. I LOVE Red Dead Redemption 2, but I could do without the 30 minute horse rides which is why I often prefer fast travel when I want to traverse the map. The same goes for space games. I'd rather be engaged in dogfights , ground combat, or simply enjoying a story and exploring than staring at a sphere slowly get bigger as I get closer for an hour. The point of games isn't so much to simulate real life as accurately as possible, it's to provide a fun momentary escape from it.

[@aeden8008]

Chris Roberts has a long and storied history of missing deadlines and delaying projects past profitability. Currently most of their "donations" are from people who see a dazzling road map and a shiny game in progress. Now Roberts is blaming those people for the delays and removing the road map?

[@Tazytots]

I still don't know where people are getting this narrative. CIG didn't actually blame anyone for anything other than having false expectations about things that had specific disclaimers to not have certain expectations. A reminder of context. It was akin to: "Don't expect your car to be drivable unless you have tires." in response to people raging on Spectrum about how cars should be able to be drivable without tires. Like, yeah. No shit the roadmap is unreliable. They literally said as much. The roadmap says as much. It's always been that way. Why are you expecting a reliable roadmap? Then CIG changes it to a form where it would be more reliable, and people are treating it like CIG is retracting information, or becoming less transparent. The response to CIGs actions are entirely irrational, and unreasonable. Just more moronic outrage culture.

[@pgornicki]

cant blame him. SC supporters are total idiots and those who destory gaming community. fuck them i hope they lose all money Chirs did great job :)

[@jfaristide]

@@Tazytots LOL @ "wHy aRe yOu eXpEcTiNg AcCoUnTaBiLiTy oN a HaLf BiLLiON DoLLaR pRoJeCt" clown shoes.

[@D2Rugz]

@@Tazytots They literally said as much for their roadmap? I guess I misheard Erin Roberts say in 2019 regarding the roadmap "This time we put in what we are pretty damn sure we can do"

[@Tazytots]

@@jfaristide That isn't at all what was said. Try reading again with a measure of literacy understanding.

[@Billinous]

Chris Roberts is a genius! This guy should teach at universities on how to maintain an unfinished project for a decade with steady heavy-investment and no deadline in sight Quite an achievement in any field of business

[@kingjoe3rd]

from behavior like this you can tell that complacency is starting to finally set in and the mask is slipping. they are not far from catastrophically pissing off their community.

[@jac1207]

@@kingjoe3rd so what? Unless there's a massive class action suit that'll go nowhere, the guy made his retirement money and he can just piss off and never need to work a day in his life or even his children's children's life with the amount of money he swindled.

[@powerdude_dk]

I won't say I don't agree, but to praise this kind of behavior, is distasteful to me. Conning people into giving you money, is disgraceful.

[@powerdude_dk]

@@jac1207 disgusting, isn't it.

[@tonystolz4982]

He would fit right in with government contractors..lol

[@MrPhife333]

Ten years ago, I was so excited when I watched Chris Roberts' video describing this new game he wanted to develop. (Anybody remember Squadron 42?) Fast forward ten years. My vision is no longer as good as it used to be. I've literally gone from having my children living in my house to having my grandchildren coming to visit on occasion. The beginnings of arthritis are starting to change the way I have to use interface hardware. Hell, even my interest in computer gaming is beginning to morph slowly into other things! Not to mention that other games are starting to catch up to and even surpass CIG's original vision of tech and gameplay. In point of fact, I'm considered a CIG investor because I purchased actual goods (i.e., a T-shirt, the military style patches, and the real life Mk3 constellation model). I feel better knowing I have real, tangible items for my money instead of pretend spaceship packages contained within a game that doesn't even exist yet. In twenty years, after Star Citizen becomes the most famous cautionary tale of the internet, those real, tangible items will probably fetch a good price from all the collectors out there. As for the virtual spaceships? Probably not so much.

[@stuartburns8657]

10 years ago I watched the same thing. Difference is I recalled the cluster f@#k that was Freelancer, and thought that idiot isn't getting a penny of my money. The guy had previous???

[@IronFreee]

I remember Squadron 42 was supposed to be the solo campaign of the multiplayer game. It wasn't supposed to be a separate product. Then they announced it as a standalone that would be released before the multiplayer game. At witch point you have 2 choices: - Use the same shared game assets and code functionalities, but for that you need to make progress on the multiplayer game too. - Make its own version of every game asset and code, but that means you may need to redo everything for the multiplayer game. Releasing Squadron 42 first may seems like a good idea because it needs less content. But if you think about it as parts of Star citizen assembled to make an addon it becomes absurd to focus on it.

[@nicolinrucker5181]

By the time Star Citizen launches Warframe will have everything it has and more.

[@IronFreee]

@@nicolinrucker5181 By the time it launches it will probably be technically outdated.

[@Nerobyrne]

@@stuartburns8657 what you mean, Freelancer was great. In fact, people are still playing it on private servers, and the single-player mode was great fun too. Did I miss something?

[@MundMoriginal]

I love that people are willing to finance people's life without ever expecting a product in return.

[@acun4075]

As a backer since 2014, monthly subscriber for almost 6 years with thousands invested I have to say this guy nailed exactly how I feel. This is why I uninstalled the game, this is why I gave up on SC, the toxic CIG communications, the toxic SC community, because you're either one of them or the enemy, they can't handle criticism in any form, I left my organization after being there for 5 years as they imo have turned into a cult in many ways.

[@Azrudi]

lol I just came from Elite Dangerous. The finished game. With 2 expansions. Which I paid 3x the money I paid for SC. Guess why I happily switched to SC a few months ago? Here's an advice. Why don't you go to Elite?

[@bongwaterbojack]

As policy, I automatically distrust anyone who uses "toxic" unironically. Especially twice in the same sentence.

[@jonbarosa8692]

@@matthewbenjamin520 I think the game looks so boring, like so many little details that look awesome but i feel if i played it i would be so frustrated with all the steps to just enter the ship or playing some mini game for the hundredth time or shooting waves of enemies. Its a space sim and should have focused down on that aspect, maybe then expanded into other mechanics. The best games have a niche, while more bloated games always have problems with boring or repetitive gameplay.

[@carlosdelsol76]

i want to scam people like you, how did they do it?

[@wiktorwektor123]

@@carlosdelsol76 Start new Kikstarter with Star Citizen 2.0

[@BaneHydra]

Literally even the slimiest, shittiest publishers out there would be on their knees begging the community for forgiveness if they took *10 fucking years* to release a promised game. The sheer *audacity* of CIG to tell the community to stop complaining because it “distracts“ them is astonishing, and that anyone still puts up with it is unbelievable. The main takeaway here is that CIG feels no obligation whatsoever to deliver anything. They think that what they are doing, the pace at which they are operating, is perfectly acceptable, otherwise there would have been at least a hint of an apologetic tone in this trash fire of a statement. They really have to think each and every one of their backers is a bumbling moron for them to have the gall to be passive-aggressive here.

[@JathraDH]

I mean if we are being real here, anyone who has backed this game within the last 6 years is in fact, a bumbling moron. So they really aren't that far off. If I were making the game this is the exact impression I would have of the community. Don't worry just dangle another shiny carrot in front of them and they will throw more money, its been working for 8+ years now.

[@gabrielmartinez8935]

That's bc those companies have shareholders who aren't going to watch one braindead man's conceit sink their ship. BC star citizen is funded by backers who have no legal stake in the company they can say whatever they want. This is the problem with crowdfunding.

[@thelonesomewanderer8359]

yeah, it's absolutely insane, remember squadron 42? haven't had ANY updates on that in 2 years or so since i last checked on their "weekly update" page.

[@TritiumJones]

@@thelonesomewanderer8359 I get updates via email frequently enough to feel like every other week or so for Squad 42.

[@AlbertoMartinez765]

Why would they? Money Talks Bullshit walks.. Backers keep giving them MORE and MORE every year ..why would ANY company stop?? That would literally be Suicide.

[@riphawk67]

My kids were still living with me when I supported this. I now have the house to myself and 3 grandchildren.

[@frankieb9444]

Damn, your grandchildren's grandchildren are going to enjoy the Beta

[@bengorraou2602]

I was single , now married with a 6yr old kid... cheers

[@Dennis-DK2]

@@bengorraou2602 thats discusting i dont care what country or culture you live in

[@powerbeard5653]

@@Dennis-DK2 lmao he didnt actually marry the kid

[@streetroller1000]

Whelp! Gettem invested now! When it finally comes out your whole family can be the crew!... Tell em you need a dozen to get a half decent compliment. Perhaps time the conceptions so that you'll always have a few available. You don't want your entire team going to college by the time this thing comes out!

[@TacticusPrime]

This is why publishers exist.

[@ObiWanKenobi_IceNation]

The "you're buying a man's dream" redditor just doesn't want to be reminded of how bad reality is. As in, how much money he literally wasted. I think it's just that, he's spinning a narrative just to shut off the reality of the fact that this game is fuckin late and CIG is fuckin accountable for it.

[@AquaCoalaNest]

This is self-protection motive in action.

[@TheJunnutin]

Ash even taught me a word for it. Copium edit. boring people might call it "denial", or the first stage of grieving.

[@Xero_Kaiser]

Almost any defense of CIG's nonsense involves the words, "dream" or "vision".

[@dyalani643]

In one way he's right. But the problem is Roberts seems to never stop dreaming so things keep on expanding and changing, leading to massive scope creep instead of keeping to the original vision. And given the issues New World has had with Lumberyard probably also wrong tech for what he wanted to do.

[@cousinrolf871]

It's hilarious because, in a fringe sort of way, that commenter is probably doing more harm than good to the progress of the game by announcing something like that to the internet. The way that reads to me is: "I threw my money into the ether with no real expectation of receiving anything in return and I'm alright with that. If you're not alright with that then you should look at other games elsewhere." I struggle to think of any new prospective backer who would look at that statement and think "well sign me up!" And, of course, without new backers or reason for their current and former backers to contribute their hard earned money AGAIN, the company will eventually shrivel up to the point where this whole thing will in fact lead to nothing.

[@SuperJohnsmith]

The reason "consumers" feel this way is because they are "consumers." "Consumers" need to start acting like "customers" and companies should treat them as so.

[@zacharyfeehan832]

As a customer, I have never bought a promise. I've only ever bought what was on the shelf.

[@robsolf]

That's an interesting point; a difference I never considered before. You think of the base meaning of "consumer", it just refers to a thing that just comes along and takes something. A locust. It removes the assumption of compensation for what they consume, and just portrays them as thankless devourers of all the resources of the world. But to think of them as customers? No wonder they don't wanna. Customers buy products. These customers paid their compensation, and will never see a product.

[@SuperJohnsmith]

@@robsolf Consumer is very corporate speak, it suggests that the "customer" will just consume whatever they put out. You find this with a lot of franchises today, they don't care about creating good products, instead they care about squeezing money out of their "consumers" in the moment. Take Disney Starwars, their strategy is purely around nostalgia bait, hoping that making shows about beloved characters will be enough to get people to tune in. Often these shows are devoid of actual good content, no real character development, and complete disregard for established lore. Instead they opt for jangling keys, introducing elements that make no sense that are there because they were in the original movies, hoping they will associate the new crap with what they love. Just consume product and wait for next product and any customer that criticizes this, is often labelled as somebody who hates fun, a "troll" or one of the many "ist" words, not just by the people making it, but the consumers that seemingly buy into this crap.

[@liesdamnlies3372]

@@robsolf There was a concerted effort to change the public’s use of language on this in the 90s and 00s. I remember there being a noticeable shift in referring to us all as “consumers” and not customers, from gaming magazines to the news. Pass the tin foil please.

[@SuperJohnsmith]

@Ops Blac Pre-orders only existed to ensure you'd get your PHYSICAL copy day 1 from a PHYSICAL store. The fact it exists in digital is ridiculous and it's why the included pre-order bonus'. We only have ourselves to blame for bad practices like this, if people didn't buy into it, they wouldn't try to exploit it.

[@AZR-ms7id]

There's little incentive for them to release a game anymore. Their business model has changed radically from game release to just selling assets and concepts. Honestly it's served them well for years now so why would they risk releasing something and potential revenue streams drying up?

[@brbrd102]

They stand to make a ton of money by releasing their singleplayer game + any expansions they forsee with that story. There is money to be made. Plenty of incentive to release something. Right now their singleplayer game is a drain on resources and a net loss.

[@fr4me.01]

@@brbrd102 Single player single price modes and expansions wont come close to selling thousand dollar ships that aren't even available yet and may never be.

[@brbrd102]

@@fr4me.01 they could. If they sell even 2 million copies of a single player title at $60 that would be the near equivalent of 2 years of crowdfunding. And 2 million is a completely reasonable number for a AAA title when you consider that games like Red dead redemption 2 have sold something like 40+ million copies since 2018. Not to mention that once part 1 is complete they can just reuse assets, engine, and tech to create part 2 in half the time leading to even more money.

[@AZR-ms7id]

@@brbrd102 I don't know the details of the crowd funding offers but I expect the the majority of their potential audience at this stage will expect to receive a free copy of the game.

[@AZR-ms7id]

@@fr4me.01 Yep. They're making bank by selling vapourware concepts of ships they have no actual commitment to even deliver. Why risk that entire business by actually releasing something when they can stretch this out for a good 5-10 years at least. Only when people stop buying their concept art will they seriously consider releasing something, but then of course that would indicate that their target audience has finally tired of them

[@Haze1434]

Imagine having the audacity and hubris to take 400+ MILLION dollars and then complain when people expect a completed product within a decade. Absolutely disgusting.

[@kivikaze]

I have put quite the money into this, and I have accepted that I will never get it back. It is high time something happens with this company... either they finish the game or they get brought to court. I am okay with either of the outcome.

[@Stenhunden]

Chris Roberts probably needs to step down to a lesser director role and put experienced heads on this project.

[@oldquaker]

We are all glad that you had the money to do ti like this. Hopefully you're not one of the white knights violently reacting to some other peoples opinion that the game is trully a really elaborated SCAM.

[@JHeezy0109]

pretty sure you wouldn't be happy with how the game comes out. if it ever does.

[@grayaj23]

@@JHeezy0109 Yep. There is no possible way they're ever going to release something that isn't a let-down.

[@Scarecr0wn]

Pretty much on the same boat.

[@AdriaanPretorius]

I built a $3000 PC awaiting for this game at it's inception a decade ago. All I got for it is a digital golden ticket, a real-life metal plaque stuck on the 10 year old PC, and a t-shirt that my mum is now sleeping in as a pajama top. It hurt.

[@leonidasvonsparta]

I giggled , sry

[@arneohman]

Oh... That is sad and funny... Very funny 😃 Sorry for laughing

[@GrimSleepy]

I hope you put your rig into use, with that rig, you can still play top tier and resource hungry games on it, at least on lowered settings.

[@AdriaanPretorius]

@@GrimSleepy Yeah, but it’s starting show it’s age, CoD Black Ops Cold War I have to turn to potato mode 😂

[@GrimSleepy]

@Jacob Grislebottom As long as he was within his means, whatever brings enjoyment, that's the purpose of $$.

[@Deadsticle]

The potential of Star Citizen actually running out of money is the funniest damn thing I've heard this week.

[@glotzer141]

My man, you are absolutely right! . All these people here in the comments I've read through don't get it, you seem to do. Hope to meet you in the Verse!

[@rextimtoday]

Ya they made 50mill in novemember 2021 their highest earning year.....they aint running out of money anytime soon

[@rextimtoday]

@@justcows7772 that's where your wrong, you would think after 10 years funding would be low, people wouldn't be buying as many ships, but from graphs of funding between 2012-2021 funding per year keeps going up I say CIG has another 5-10 years worth of good funding they can get, and by that time SQ42 will come out which will bring up funding even further, CIG will never run out of money, they would have to litterly piss off all 3 million people who bought into the project for it to die off

[@k-aw-teksleepysageuni8181]

@@rextimtoday another 5-10 years of good FIN DOMING you mean. Lmao. So many asexual nerds that just wanna be Chris Roberts money slaves....

[@jwenting]

@@justcows7772 they've stashed away enough of that 500 million into investments in actual companies and products that Chris will never run out of money. Only a tiny percentage of the money coming in has to be spent on actual stuff to be shown to the marks, and another small percentage on marketing, to keep the scam going.

[@kennethbedwell5188]

SC is going to be a case study for project managers of what not to do far into the future. They fact the scope creep has gotten this bad shows they haven’t gotten a project manager anywhere in the company.

[@AndrewTFenn]

Are you kidding me? They're writing the bible on how to get all of consumers money. The hook of "life time insurance" and the fear of missing out has brought in 500+ million dollars.. that's not a "what not to do" guide. That's the direction every company will be taking.

[@patrik3482]

What do you mean "not to do"? They got 500 millions while doing absolutely nothing, and the donators even defend and thank them for that. That is every manager's wet dream.

[@kennethbedwell5188]

@@patrik3482 Mangement yes, but another for an Accredited Project manager. An accredited project manager focuses on moving the project along and accomplishing goals.

[@JS-wp4gs]

@@AndrewTFenn No. If they did this in literally any other industry they'd have been sued into oblivion by now and investigated for embezzlement by multiple regulatory organizations

[@0fficialdregs]

@@JS-wp4gs bingo

[@x4natos]

I'm one of the backers from back in 2013. I wanted an improved Freelancer and was promised such. But the promises changed to add World of Tanks in Space, Call of Duty in Space, Battlefield in Space, some weird "watch eggs cook in real time survival" whatever a decade later. Chris Roberts doesn't even know what kind of flight model he wants 10 years later....

[@oliver_twistor]

They probably should have released many games instead of trying to create a god-like game. In my view, a game should do one thing and do that thing great. One great gameloop is all it takes. There's no need for simulating _everything_ . If I'm playing a racer game, I don't need to play my character eating lunch or having sex with her boyfriend or helping her friend move houses. I loved Freelancer so much. I didn't back this game, but it would have been awesome to play something an improved Freelancer, as you say.

[@firestarter000001]

I was from start waiting only on Squadron 42, which, imho, should be a fairly standard project. A standalone game, no multiplayer, dogfighting, cutscenes.Even if they want to put there all the newest graphics technolgoies, its still a pretty standard game project. The fact that they couldnt even deliver that in all those years is really weird for me

[@Schnittertm1]

I also backed it back then, albeit only at the 50$ mark. I only wanted a new Wing Commander out of it. As it stands, I don't think I'll see Squadron 42 before I die.

[@SuperMontsta]

Wing Commander had this same issue too. They had to take control from Chris, kick him off the project. He wanted too much. Seems like the same is still happening. Put out the meat and potatoes. Then add in the super tiny details that aren't important but cool. That should be how its done.

[@jonbarosa8692]

@@oliver_twistor This is what I am saying too. Like when i see the videos of a guy entering his ship, it does look awesome, but will it really be awesome 100 times later. Its like watching that the skin animation of RDR back in the day, over and over and over again. It just gets boring no matter how many polygons you have. Almost every tiny act has some associated animation or mini game or whatever.. it just looks tedious and boring.

[@allgreatnike1009]

The levels of COPIUM involved in this project probably surpasses E2... maybe.

[@drunkenfox2519]

Right? I just started playing two weeks ago, and I’m having a great time coping with the fact that a meme game is better than most AAA releases

[@biffboof1007]

@@drunkenfox2519 I can smell your tears

[@henkweeds1498]

Not maybe it is its even longer dev time then duke nukem forever

[@drunkenfox2519]

@@henkweeds1498 true duke nukem easily surpasses the level of detail that star citizen has.

[@e2rqey]

At least with Earth 2 the idiots at least think that they game is going to make them rich. While Star Citizen's goal is basically to do the complete opposite (make you poor).

[@noahknight4039]

I think No Man’s Sky post launch meltdown and success kind of spits in the face of Star Citizen. They should of officially released the game already and then continued to build on the launched product. It’s so weird they released micro transactions before releasing a full retail product.

[@michaelcorcoran8768]

I don't think it's weird. Weird seems like a kind adjective to describe what's going on. I find it deeply disturbing

[@ryancrist9565]

Exactly. This is the mindset of "a bad game is forever bad, but a delayed game is eventually good." taken to a DELUSIONAL degree. That may have been true back in the day, but it simply isn't the case anymore. Hell, it's basically standard industry practice to release a broken game and then fix it.

[@Blisterdude123]

@@ryancrist9565 No Man's Sky released as a bad and with a lot of consistent hard work and post-release content got to a good. Without charging anyone for anything, beyond the retail price. Whatever you think of NMS as a game, it is at least a game, that exists, and has attained an approximation, or even a progression beyond 'some' of what was promised. Star Citizen is the most expensive joke ever told.

[@JS-wp4gs]

Success? Its an awful a game as it ever was and not even remotely close to what they claimed the end result would be

[@adiaphoros6842]

@@JS-wp4gs Sean Murray is infinitely better as a project lead than Chris “You get to pay us, but you don’t get to complain” Roberts.

[@IronFreee]

As a dev, I never told any of my clients: "the roadmap is too distracting, things will come when I decide they are ready". You can have delays but you are asked to evaluate how much time it will take to accomplish every task. At the beginning of every sprint (1 to 4 weeks depending on the project), the team sits down, decide with the client what it needs the most and what can be included in that sprint. And then we divide it in small tasks and all the team vote to decide how much time each task will take. If someone thinks it can last longer or shorter he can explain why. And then everyone picks up tasks and do them. At the end of the sprint, the sprint content is delivered to the client who can use it and decide on small changes (or larger for more money).

[@thecalmbro]

Right, you don't set out the objects of development and then add 800 more features before you can complete the things you were working on at the beginning, unlike this game that is literally unfinishable because there's never a way to complete development.

[@bla4547]

Whole problem is that Roberts apparently never heard the term MVP

[@upsidedownairline9388]

Came here to say this. Working openly with a community is harder than with a single client, but there's a real problem with the studio here. As a developer, I honestly felt for CIG after the first paragraph of their statement. I have tried to be open about development with a wider community before, and such open communication can easily lead to scope creep based on user suggestions, different people wanting different things, and players taking things that were mentioned as a vague idea as promises. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect players to understand that some items on a roadmap will be a case of "if we get around to it", while other features are prioritized more. It's that distinction between critical features and "nice to have". There's also the issue that players will disagree among eachother, and with the developer, about what features should take priority. It's unavoidable when working with hundreds or thousands of independent people. The thing that turned it around for me is that it seems like a bunch of "nice to have" features are being prioritized over what was originally promised, while burning through money provided by the community. As an outsider looking in, it seems like they jump on things that are cool right now, without any consideration for how the game plays and what the customers actually want. It's flashy on the surface, sure, but from what I hear, the game lacks any substance. It might be okay for a self-funded project, but as soon as other people are paying for it, those peoples' opinion matters.

[@IronFreee]

@@upsidedownairline9388 "open communication can easily lead to scope creep based on user suggestions, different people wanting different things, and players taking things that were mentioned as a vague idea as promises." I think that's one of their main problem. I watched a lot of their videos. There's often backers questions like "will there be this or that" and I never ear them say "no, this won't be in the project". I think they have instructions to do so and its really a stupid idea. You can't do that and complain that "players taking things that were mentioned as a vague idea as promises". But that's not how that thing got out of control...

[@MustardSkaven]

Exactly. At the start of the sprint you commit to tickets and when you don't reach the goal repeatedly, you review and improve the process so you start hitting goals consistently. It's ironic their (cig fanboys) only defense is "you don't understand development".

[@Self-replicating_whatnot]

I want to extend a sincere "F*CK YOU" to Cloud Imperium for their scatterbrain kind of game development in general and this post in particular. They lost their right to blame players for anything many years and many many millions of dollars ago.

[@uncannyvalley2350]

How Many People Play Star Citizen? We estimate that 427,994 people play per day, with a total player base of 15,017,337. Game Data Active development began in 2015, there was never a Kickstarter for a AAAA MMO, SC was born of the success of the kickstarter and uses tech that hadn't even been invented in 2012, it was only after they got so much money that a vote was taken and the PU 1.0 dropped in 2015. But look at you clones, parroting things you heard without even thinking to fact check them RDR2 = 900 million, 6000 staff, 8 to 9 years CyberPunk = 315 million, 5000 staff, 10 years Star Citizen = 250 million, 300 staff, 6 years. You can fit 1.8 million RDR2 maps into Stanton alone. They're doin OK. You should perhaps ask yourselves if you haven't fallen into a cult, seething over things that aren't factually correct, repeating the same mantras over and over and getting all toxic and hostile because people enjoy a game you know nothing about. Pretty obvious at this point who the cult really is, Star Citizen critics, most of which are no content trollfarm accounts.

[@uncannyvalley2350]

Also they didn't blame anyone for anything, classic strawman, classic cult bullshit

[@Self-replicating_whatnot]

@@uncannyvalley2350 You sound like a cultist yourself, mate. And you know what the saddest thing is? Even if you are young enough to just have learned how to write, you'll still die of old age before Star Citizen releases.

[@jigsaw6954]

@@uncannyvalley2350 hey man i got this bridge I need to get rid of, wanna buy it?

[@uncannyvalley2350]

@@Self-replicating_whatnot funny, because thats your go to whenever someone corrects you, "White Knight" "Cultist" your excuses for claims you can't prove, your out for when you get cornered, definition of a cult, cult boi, now are you going to show us your better game, or just want to cling onto hating strangers over made up facts, which os totes not what a cult is 🤣

[@estebanhughell709]

Constantly missing deadlines and milestones is a failure of leadership.

[@TheOldMan-75]

Exactly. Things can take a little longer from time to time but if you repeatedly say something is done in a couple of months and then it takes years, that’s just horrid management.

[@falloutmule]

Why don't they just say "Gamers just don't understand Star Citizen" LOL It also looks like Chris Roberts makes 2 million a year.

[@StarContract]

corporate wants you to find the difference between a ship jpeg and an NFT

[@originalriekko8813]

@@StarContract easy, the ship jpeg is cheaper and more likely to be a "good" purchase. And they're nicer to look at.

[@martins.4240]

@@StarContract "It's the same picture."

[@moshunit96]

They definitely took a page from the ubisoft playbook and blamed the community.

[@WhiteGryphus]

@@originalriekko8813 ngl, that's a good point. is a bad choice nonetheless, but ship jpg is probably original and good looking.

[@galloviking4766]

The story of the biggest scam in gaming continues.

[@spottyhead]

As a professional animator I couldn't imagine the studio I work for taking money from a broadcaster and then slow-dripping single scenes to them over the next decade, always telling them "It'll be another few months before you get those last scenes for the first episode."

[@Keplaves]

You are talking about a tried and tested method, which requires no boundaries or experimentation. It is not comparable, what they are doing is beyond anything been done before and therefore they will struggle and will make mistakes. The community that funded this game literally VOTED for this and yet now moan about the result of that vote?

[@StarContract]

As a scammer it makes perfect sense to me 👌

[@JohnSmith-ox3gy]

@@Keplaves Then they should have given the chance to refund the people who voted against this. You should not be able to break the 49% of individual promises because 51% voted against your interests. Would it be okay to vote for reducing deliverables? Say 100 people back to fund for production of sock pairs and instead of a pair backers can vote to change the deliverables to a single strand of wool. Not just that, these votes can be rigged by creating new voters by the campaign holder forcing a vote through money.

[@EvanCWaters]

@@Keplaves They're making a video game, not going to Mars.

[@Rambocandoit]

Tell you what its actually about... In the UK you can refund to the full amount using the failure to deliver. I say this as a Legacy backer who's spent thousands on this, And finally I've lost faith and putting in for a full refund. I defended this project and I hope they deliver but enough is enough and they need to be held accountable.

[@markomejac8172]

Preach!

[@brykanst9071]

just know that after you go through with that they probably won't let you buy the game again ever

[@TheFoulCorsair]

@@brykanst9071 You're missing the point; it's never going to be released so we're not losing anything by that threat....

[@Rambocandoit]

also they aren't going to hardware ban anyone, so the chances of them not allowing you to receive a game package is slim. But In the likelihood that happens the original devs will be deceits before the games in beta so I will take my chances XD

[@All_Hail_Chael]

I hope you get your money back and have learned your lesson. Everyone has to learn the hard way, I'm like £75 down and I'm embarrassed to tell people about that. I backed the game and upgraded to a Cutty Black.

[@AxisZtv]

I've always defended SC from being called a scam, because they seem intent on delivering the product and have persistent playable content that gets updates regularly. This press release however is fucking terrible. The SC community has been carrying CIG on its back and constantly defending them because they believe in the dream. For CIG to throw a hissy fit because the community wants accountability for management decision is absolutely disgusting and they deserve all the negative PR they get from this childish message. Get a better community management team.

[@wrongthinker843]

Legally not a scam, because a scam has to involve something they have no intention or ability to deliver. Just very terrible management with legally dubious and morally terrible foundations.

[@oldquaker]

When you see that your "community" is handing you 20 million dollars for ships in ONE WEEK, ONE (1) WEEK GUYS, then it's clear that they have their community by their balls and they can squeeze their community for cash any time they want. THEY MADE 20 MILLION DOLLARS IN SELLING SHIPS IN 1 WEEK IN A BROKEN ALPHA PEOPLE!

[@AxisZtv]

@@oldquaker To be fair, I feel like a large majority of their community are pretty high earners. I feel like every SC content creator I see has 6 2k OLED curved monitors, with a 1k HOTAS control setup, a 5k PC, and a chair that basically gives you a vibrating handjob while you play the game. I'd milk those fuckers too lol.

[@busetgadapet]

it's super obvious to me when they focus more on graphic and map instead of actual gameplay and lore, also not to mention they even after 10 years they couldn't make running animation well, sigh

[@AnDr3w066]

They seem intent on delivering the product? Bruh its been a decade with half a billion and you have demos to show for it. They are at best horribly incompetent or at worst knowingly scamming people. Which is still a scam

[@HeavyDemir]

That message was the beginning of the end. Star Citizen will never come out as a full game, it reads as the auteur is about to give up and lashes out in frustration trying to shift the blame away from himself.

[@Nerobyrne]

my guess is that microsoft will buy CIG, fire Roberts, and make sure the game releases in a proper state a few years later. Which will be VERY ironic, considering what happened with Freelancer ^^

[@lennyztrobos8678]

@@Nerobyrne "It's like poetry, they rhyme" - George Lucas

[@JS-wp4gs]

@@Nerobyrne No company would touch this dumpsterfire of a project, let alone microsoft

[@donbraga4863]

It's like hiding your roadmap from Stakeholders that actually bring the money to make them have a living. It's like you order a pizza and they person on the phone is pissed because you say what you want on your pizza and when approximately it should be delivered. In stark contrast, a Startup gets money for reaching goals in a certain period of time, basically, a project is always something that has a start and an end.

[@shadow7037932]

It wouldn't matter. Because the people that have drunk the koolaid will keep putting more money in. And also dragging other people in to it, not unlike a MLM scheme.

[@Tazytots]

Yeah. It's basically the same thing, except there are no Stakeholders, or investors and it's nothing like that at all. Just morons with big pockets and a false sense of entitlement.

[@EddyKorgo]

Hmm interesting. Im trying to respond to a comment that is above your comment and yet it keeps posting to your comment xD WTF

[@EddyKorgo]

and now cant even delete the post xD youtube is broken

[@predacon]

Its more that the sc community are babies that cry about everything.

[@solidzaku2]

I think professionals in cult deprogramming are going to write textbooks about this. Frankly, so should tax officials, but I digress.

[@uncannyvalley2350]

How Many People Play Star Citizen? We estimate that 427,994 people play per day, with a total player base of 15,017,337. Game Data Active development began in 2015, there was never a Kickstarter for a AAAA MMO, SC was born of the success of the kickstarter and uses tech that hadn't even been invented in 2012, it was only after they got so much money that a vote was taken and the PU 1.0 dropped in 2015. But look at you clones, parroting things you heard without even thinking to fact check them RDR2 = 900 million, 6000 staff, 8 to 9 years CyberPunk = 315 million, 5000 staff, 10 years Star Citizen = 250 million, 300 staff, 6 years. You can fit 1.8 million RDR2 maps into Stanton alone. They're doin OK. You should perhaps ask yourselves if you haven't fallen into a cult, seething over things that aren't factually correct, repeating the same mantras over and over and getting all toxic and hostile because people enjoy a game you know nothing about. Pretty obvious at this point who the cult really is, Star Citizen critics, most of which are no content trollfarm accounts.

[@uncannyvalley2350]

Speaking of cults, all of you foaming at the bung over misinformation, you sound kind a bunch of Trump supoorters

[@odesel]

@@uncannyvalley2350 you almost had me convinced up until you brought politics in the argument. trash.

[@staygray6212]

@@uncannyvalley2350 your message keeps getting dumber the longer I read. Hoo boy.

[@Prawnsly]

@@uncannyvalley2350 Maybe the truth lies somewhere between the two extremes of "it's a total clownfest scam" and "they're going to make the best thing ever just give them time"? Like most things, I guess.

[@Isaard]

I gave $500 to Star Citizen many years ago. I've come to accept that money was to really to fund Chris Robert's and his wife's lifestyle, not to make a video game.

[@wynnzeng1235]

I gave them $1000+ and am now questioning my own sanity. I am pretty damn sure that money went to CIG buying new studios but whether these purchases actually helped the development or just fed into the damn management nightmare (and went into some individuals' pockets).

[@markostanisic581]

I got in 2015 basic aurora package and not a single € more. Once in a while go back and check new tings...

[@nd8490]

I gave him $0 because who the fuck pays for an unfinished product? Best $0 I've never spent...

[@jdoe4983]

@@nd8490 based. normies who funded a concept are absolutely seething at this comment

[@wynnzeng1235]

@@nd8490 It is extremely depressing to see shipping out unfinished products becomes the standard practice for most game publishers these days. Day 1 patches and "live service" model are downright insulting excuses to not fairly treat their consumers.

[@derek96720]

Even if Star citizen ends up being an amazing game, their studio is finished after this. No one is ever going to rely on them to make the next big game, not after so much money and so much time. More likely is that other studios will look at Star citizen, take what good about it, and make their own similar games in far less time.

[@louiscypher4186]

they've already siphoned off hundreds of millions. There's nothing currently released to justify half a billion in funding. Yet these fucking cultists claim it's the greatest thing ever cause you can land on planets.

[@diecar128]

This is me with EA. After the latest battlefield flopped exponentially harder than bf v, EA and Dice are dead to me as far as BF goes. Really like Apex tho

[@flaviomonteiro1414]

They already did (No Mans Sky and Elite Dangerous)

[@Nerobyrne]

oh yeah they're gonna ride this into the ground and then quit, no matter if they release or not

[@nickgennady]

@@flaviomonteiro1414 Elite dangerous is trash.

[@Hazardous-Sheep]

The fact they say being held accountable to their roadmaps is annoying tells me that they are not doing any kind of project management, or prevention of scope creep and just going by the seat of their pants until its "perfect" which its never going to be. It really sucks for the people that spent so much money on it but at this point i highly doubt that we will ever see a finished product.

[@reidwallace4258]

Its Chris Roberts, so I'd bet in 5-7 years they go bankrupt, some publisher buys them out, fires his dumb ass, weasels out of half their crowd funding obligations, and sells a slapped together, rushed out the door, micro transaction filled shitfest of a game... And the worst part? After all this the fanboys won't learn their lesson, they will blame the company that tried to re-coup an investment, not the miss management that burned their investment to the ground polishing an impossible turd.

[@Carnyzzle]

Ah yes Chris Roberts, because you'll definitely build more trust in the community by hiding your roadmap because we see you don't deliver when you say you will.

[@MidnightSt]

ah yes, Chris Roberts, the dude with a history of his games being finished and delivered only after they were taken away from him =D he, for the first time, making a game that can't be taken away from him! what could go wrong! =D

[@Onigatana]

To be honest, the release view was a marketing tool. Half the stuff on it was moved around every quarter.

[@TheZombieCurryKid]

stop bullying chris!

[@wrongthinker843]

@@TheZombieCurryKid No

[@grayaj23]

@@MidnightSt From Roberts' perspective, nothing IS wrong. Until the money dries up.

[@JayRNaylor]

Backer from way back, disillusioned since 2017. We weren't promised "perpetual, never ending development of a man's dream" to give our money to. They were going on about the GAME they wanted to MAKE, and selling things that would be assets in that game to fund it. Moving goal posts to justify failure and mismanagement is infuriating.

[@JohnSmith-ox3gy]

I would argue we are further from the original goal than when the original campaign was launched. If you were to give few million to a new team they'd finish the project in a few years.

[@geekverve]

Same here. I believe it was some time in 2018 that I realized it was going to be a LOOOONG time before the game would launch. They had basically incorporated unchecked scope creep into their business model. I got a refund of my sizable pledge total at that point. To do so they had to nuke my game/community account. I guess it was the only way they knew of to ensure I no longer received any benefit or recognition from being a long-time backer. It just felt odd like, "You want a refund? Fine. You're dead to us." I've since bought back in with the $40 basic starter package (I really do want the game to succeed), but had to create a brand new account to do so.

[@skybertie]

totally agree ... its moving away from the originally promised concept...both in time... and the context. Why do we see shopping malls, metro sets, ground vehicles being developed in all this detail when the core mechanics like space ship navigation and trading is bugged to hell...

[@Graz190]

@@skybertie Because the one Part is the Art Team the other Team is the UI/UX Team. The one Use Blender Maya the other programm with javascript or now C++ or C#. They need different vehicles or do Star wars only have on Spaceship?

[@skybertie]

@@Graz190 If I could understand your strange comment I would give you a devastating response! 😁Are you sayiing they purposely set out with teams that write incompatible code? Or that they have no coders that can fix the well known bugs (that now get birthday cards) but have loads of paid coders making pretty stuff...

[@AngelOfDeath698]

I played this game when it was free for a week or so last month. I spent 8 hours in a day playing it with some friends, and it was one of my least enjoyable gaming experiences. For 500m dollars and 10 years, you get a few missions/contracts, half of which appeared to not work properly. You get stuck in the walls of your ship if you arent seated when the pilot makes a turn; and have to suicide and fly back to your corpse which is like a 20 minute trip. Your corpse icon dissapears on the map, friend locations on the map are not accurate. The game has a lot of potential. But its kinda shit right now. Im glad i am not one who dropped hundreds or thousands of dollars into jt

[@RP-dy5mu]

This is what these mouthbreathers don't understand. In a functioning game the basics have to be on point. It's unacceptable to be clipping through the floor after 10 years. Even after 6 months tbqh it should be on point, but I guess for a space game you can give it some grace period. But still after 10 years this speaks volumes about how clueless the entire team is (not meant as an insult btw). I suspect that they have massive code smell and because a lot of OG people left, no one truly has any insight about what steps need to be taken to fix it. So they just keep trying to chug along to meet deadlines while the problem just grows exponentially slowing down flexibility further and further. They should be banging out features left and right with small modular components but I have a feeling they aren't able to.

[@ryancrist9565]

LMAO! 10 years and 500m and it isn't even fun! Omg just imagine this game dies immediately upon launch (in another 10 years and 500m from now), that would be the funniest thing ever.

[@NormanconEVE]

@@RP-dy5mu personally what I enjoy so much about Satisfactory. The stages of development are very planned. And each one drops as a polished gem. It looks great, feels great, progress is moving at a decent rate. Bugs are fixed quickly when found and they listen to the community and implement suggestions very effectively. Obviously it isn't a space sim but still, some understanding and planning goes a long way... As well as a competent QA team.

[@hubachecka]

Crazy how very BASIC things dont work and they still pump out "upcoming" features just to hype up the community.... I am very new to the game but why on earth do almost all contracts bug out at some point? Why do I constantly phase through walls or spawn below the surface (funny if you log out without a helmet and spawn in space just to suffocate)... Why is the inventory looking like it's early 2000 without ANY transfer all or similar buttons... No one can tell me that these basic things would need more than a couple of months max to repair, especially with a huge developing team like they have. And sorry to say, but "it's just an alpha" doesn't cut it as an excuse anymore.

[@billywashere6965]

@@hubachecka Servers can't scale to the game, which is why they needed server meshing, but before they could get server meshing working they needed a persistent entity stream from a replication layer, but there are no middleware solutions available that deliver it to scale for Star Citizen, so they tried to build one years ago via pCache, which didn't work, so they tried iCache, which also didn't work, so they had to built a bespoke system known as PES, which does work.

[@deadringer8050]

there really needs to be an investigation at this point

[@PhilipZeplinDK]

At the very least, surely this has to fall under "gross mismanagement of funds", as well as "misleading advertisement" or "false advertising claims".

[@mekal779]

While I agree its an absolute joke I have to ask what would the investigation be about People have knowingly thrown their money at an IDEA there AFAIK isnt any grounds for a suit

[@shiroamakusa8075]

@@mekal779 It's a Ponzi scheme and you can get sued for running one.

[@edward3190]

At this point, if they invest 500m in hedge funds, they would have enough income to develop the game indefinitely.

[@deadringer8050]

@@mekal779 for that reason right there, People keep throwing money at it, and there's alot of people who wants to know what's going on there is no transparency

[@ocharni]

I purchased a small package with I think an Aurora for ~35€ 8 years ago. And eventually just forgot I had an account. Then, about a year ago, I remembered and installed the game and was quite shocked on what little there is to the game after 10 years half a billion dollars. Everyone that still gives CIG money needs to have a guardian assigned.

[@TheFailedmessiah]

Unfortunately those people VOTE, and drive cars irl. We should be deeply concerned where society is headed

[@shinyguy3766]

@@TheFailedmessiah Be the change you want. easier to end those than you think. no one misses them other than online.

[@TheLumberjack1987]

@@TheFailedmessiah to be fair those troglodites are probably the sort of people who don't vote anyways

[@natewagstaff2516]

Thats just not true. Theres a ton to the game. Some things in the game that no other game has done in the history of gaming.

[@chucknorrisffs]

Comes across like they are gaslighting. This confirms my beliefs that they are going to rug-pull on this project and get away with it. Think about it, any passionate developers who've recieved the funding they've recieved would take all the criticisms like champs, classify them into what they can use and move forward objectively as opposed to insinuate that these criticisms are effecting their productivity/mental health. Like they are starting damage control by playing the victim already.

[@draganp83]

Don't think Roberts is a rug-puller, it's a lot more that he has shown, again and again, that he is highly prone to feature creep and can only work with a very strong hand controlling him. Dude would still be working on Freelancer if it was his call :D .

[@BaronFeydRautha]

@@draganp83 RIGHT? Chris is a perfectionist and will not stop until it's what he wants. Freelancer? Hell, he'd still be working on Wing Commander if he could. I will say this though. I do hope there are more systems that are being made other than Stanton and Pyro. A decade and only two systems? Nah man. EVEN Pyro is a pipe dream for players at this point. I love Chris, he's been making great games my entire life and I want to support him in this. But he does need to get shit rolling. Edit; Hell some of his wing commander games had better casting than movies at the time. Edit edit: FFS Wing Commander Prophecy had a better cast than the Wing Commander movie. And I LOVE Matthew Lillard. SLC Punk...

[@grayaj23]

Chris Roberts's ego is astountingly massive, though . I mean, his ego chewed up and spit out Derek Smart, and that's saying something. There's no possible chance of him taking it like a champ. He's going to take it like an entitled primadonna. That 500 shares of Orville Redenbacher futures is looking likj a great investment now.

[@jfaristide]

It 100% **is** gaslighting.

[@foltax6625]

@@BaronFeydRautha I can almost guarantee Pyro is ready to go, but some tiny little flower being out of place is holding up the release.

[@FirebreathXIII]

I've given CIG 80$ way back when "Lifetime Insurance" on ships was a thing. Now, I feel like that guy that pre-ordered Duke Nukem Forever the first time that it was announced, and then waited 14 more years for it to release.

[@ddis29]

@barnabyjoy they got 4 years still, chill out 😏

[@kukipett]

I was that guy and i end up playing with my shit in a restroom, no need to say what i think about it!!

[@Dante_S550_Turbo]

@@ddis29 if you only count non existent extensions to the deadline. the games release dat was 2014/15. then 17', then 18', then 2020, and now what 2026?! when it gets close they'll keep collecting money and tell you it will be 2030. XD

[@CigarRegal]

@@ddis29 I can't even tell if the fanatics in the community would regard that as praise or FUD.

[@orionarclight]

Well unfortunately for you, this will not release in 4 years

[@JohnSavant]

"Star Citizen isn't a game"; "You're buying a man's dream" erm, if this isn't cult mentality, then I don't what is.

[@riptors9777]

Absolutely... guys like that allready have drunk the coolaid

[@bookcadenb4584]

This isn't wrong but it's a great dream to have. Freelancer was fucking amazing and had the tech of that day been capable of what he already wanted to do back then, it would've been the game to end all games, which is what he's "trying" to build now.

[@riptors9777]

@@bookcadenb4584 Freelancer was amazing DESPITE roberts. He nearly killed the project and the game got cobbled together last minute by the publisher after kicking roberts out of the decision making room. The publisher being microsoft btw Roberts is and allways was an idea guy with little to no self control or managing abillity... no one should ever entrust him with sole decision making powers let alone the key to the companies bank accounts...

[@ArmageddonEvil]

@@riptors9777 And now their British portion of their studio is owned by the UK. lol

[@troodon1096]

That's precisely what it is.

[@vanadot]

With that attitude, I wouldn't be surprise if the next roadmap are implementing NFT/metaverse-thing into the game

[@dwavenminer]

Yeah I can 100% see them going all in for the -metaverse- scamverse

[@XraynPR]

That would be beautiful, one big step closer to working fusion tech from the meltdown that would cause

[@Victor-sk8by]

Don't joke m8, that wouldn't surprise me

[@StarContract]

They literally do sell plots of land and spaceship jpegs

[@mmogaddict]

I almost wish they do go NFT but only if it applies to the ships they already sold because I would cash out as soon as possible from this train wreck

[@themodusfiles-afallout76po30]

I’ve been following SC for a while now and I am amazed that their community has allowed such a botched development process continue Year after year…and yet they keep buying ships and feed Chris Robert’s appetite. At this point, none of them know what kind of game this is even going to be.

[@MorbidEel]

sunk cost fallacy is pretty powerful

[@jinmark9453]

After few years of observation I came to a conclusion SC is a Digital Church/Cult.

[@AaronAlso]

@@jinmark9453 I concur; I too came to that conclusion and that CIG has been drip feeding the finest copium since 2012.

[@pies-of-pain2877]

Due to all of the drama surrounding the game, is that it's less of a game and more of a dream. Go to any other subreddit on any other game, and they will be talking about game mechanics or maybe a bit of minmaxing or maybe talking about the story...with star citizen the subreddit reads more like a roleplaying forum with no one aware of it where people act out ideas that they think might possibly maybe become some kind of super realistic cool feature that might be added to the game later on potentially. Hey guys what if we have to do realistic maintenance on our ship's guns or risk it jamming in the middle of battle? What if we all have to mop up and have janitorial staff but also there's a risk of slipping on a wet floor. Hey guys what if we introduced the slave trade in the game?

[@randalthor6872]

This is why I know that we are doomed as a civilization. These gullible fucking pay pigs haha.

[@Cheshire3Cat21]

It’s like going into a restaurant where you pay to have a steak dinner, except youre the one who has to go out and get the cut of meat for the chef, but the dude takes a smoke break while it’s still left on the grill and the kitchen ‘coincidently’ catches on fire and it’s totally not insurance fraud.

[@HCG]

…no, not really lmao.

[@g-3609]

I find it concerning that they say, "But there still remain a loud contingent of roadmap watchers who see projections as promises and their ...... Became a distraction both internally ... And within our community", Please note when they say "internally at cig" it implies that there were people at cig that thought the roadmap was a promise and this was supposedly a distraction. If their own staff are confused it just goes to say how thin their statements are, anything can change at any moment, they don't have solid goals and they themselves are confused. This is typical, whenever management mismanages it blames the engineers

[@grayaj23]

Good observation. You're right.

[@sheetpostmodernist398]

To clarify this, I think you are misreading what the statement about it becoming an internal distraction means. They are not talking about the developers expecting the roadmap to be deadlines. The developers know exactly how their internal processes work. What they are addressing here is that the general public's inability to understand the difference between a goal and a deadline has turned into a flowing pipeline of flaming vitriol that the armchair developers across the internet have focused directly on the development team. The "internal distraction" is that the flow of constant hate is taking a toll on the mental health of the developers. Did they make a PR misstep by pinning this issue on the public? Maybe. But this is just as much about managing public expectations as it is not providing free ammunition to all of the spiteful factions of the internet that are bound and determined to see this project burn. If the people receiving all of this info were consistently using it as hate-fuel against the devs, yeah. I'm happy cutting off the flow of hate fuel for their sake.

[@shadow7037932]

@@sheetpostmodernist398 Managing expectation? You're joking right. Chris Roberts went on stage around what 2017/2018ish confidently and made statements like "Salvage in 3.2". So much for that eh? If the leader of the project is making bold statements like this with the latest information he has and it gets missed by 4+ years, that's a huge problem and highlights their complete lack of skills in project estimations.

[@sheetpostmodernist398]

​@@shadow7037932 Not talking about his promises, because yeah, those were uninformed blunders at this point. There are all sorts of problems with things they've promised in the past, and the scope really is a never-ending pile of feature creep. Right here, right now, I'm talking about how the roadmap giving out too much unstable information has been a detriment. Maybe too little too late, but this is them realizing the roadmap said too much, and pulling back to give out less uncertain info.

[@grayaj23]

@@sheetpostmodernist398 I'm estimating, from reading this a couple of times, that you've got at least $2000 spent on this game already. It's not quite "paid shill" territory, but getting close.

[@FlipforTruth]

If I lost $500 to an unfinished game I'd be pissed.. SC took it to another level. If you are still happy after a decade and you spent more, then you've drank the Kool aid.

[@DragonWarrior63]

It's actually a pretty fun game, I got into about 3 years ago and played over 1000 hours and some of my best gaming experiences have been in Star Citizen. I agree with this video though, people are buying it expecting a product and it just isn't anywhere near its potential right now. I've accepted the fact it will be many more years before a full release. If you're into science fiction sandbox simulation style gameplay nothing really compares to it. It is definitely playable and is a good time in its current state even while missing many of the in development features.

[@Fx_Explains]

@@DragonWarrior63 well some of us have been here for almost 10 years and we are tired of waiting.

[@hurrdurrimaburr]

Why? the game is already better and more future rich than Elite. And it's not even finished.

[@Marth667]

​@@hurrdurrimaburr That's just it. ITS. NOT. EVEN. FINISHED! 11 years. 500 million. Dozens and dozens of deadline failures. Finance statements, internal running and transparency of the company obscured because it wasn't convenient for their bottom line. Any EA, activision or ubisoft game that done this sort of shit would have been laughed out the door to infinity and back. But mention chris roberts and everyone is frothing at the mouth of a 'vision' that he or they might not even see done. This whole saga and indeed it is a saga is just a hype train that no one has reigned in and for awhile now people have been watching it wreck but only now do the cultists on board finally see something is a miss.

[@hurrdurrimaburr]

@@Marth667 You can read their financial report and see exactly where the money has been going. I don't really give a fuck if the game gets done or not, i've only backed it for $40 or something. But there's plenty of valid reason as to why the development time has been inflated to this degree. You're just to stubborn to accept them. Cyberpunk 2077 was in development for 9 years and could've easily used two more years. SC is a much more advanced title, and would obviously need more time than that in retrospect.

[@Aurvos]

The goal was 500 thousand dollars with no content released yet. They literally were given 1,000 times more money and not a single peep. This is all the players fault. When a company keeps trying to take money with no work shown behind it you are enabling them to continue doing it. Imagine paying a contractor to make a house for you and they continue to say we need more money for this and more money for that after the fact they only needed $300,000 dollars. Will you have taken there bullshit? Its like when players pay for Mounts and 6 month subs on World of Warcraft. You are enabling blizzard not to create content for the game. By giving them $80 bucks (the price of a collectors edition expansion worth of content) every 6 months and receiving a mount for it you are literally telling them that you are ok with the one item and they don't have to spend money on creating content. Shadowlands was released Nov 23, 2020. Its been 14 months. In those 14 month they managed to release 1 mediocre content patch and 8 store mounts. This has been a huge problem trend in the gaming industry especially American MMOs. And it all the players fault who keep giving them money for it.

[@Raterex]

The thing which I cannot wrap my head around is that the "man's dream" could co-exist very well with players expectations of a working game...look at all the games as a service titles like final fantasy 14, world of warcraft, genshin impact. None of those games mentioned above were released in their full state at the start, yet have provided players with a functional game to enjoy, while expansions were added year after year. Such a wasted potential due to abysmal road map planning. Just look at genshin, having collected at least $2.3 billion after satisfying its players for 1 year with a playable game, though far from complete. Star citizen is still stuck with $500 million...after 10years.

[@michaelgillman2505]

Mate I know how they can resolve all of this and get the game they all want. Honest. I have a clear plan but it will take me a while to write it out and I'm not just going to do that for free as I have a job, so if people could donate $20 each to fund me writing out this plan so I can help everyone, contact me privately and we can get this ball rolling.

[@rremnar]

This shit happens often with engineering contracts. Like that fiasco with the tunnel project in seattle some years ago. Was it ever finished? Who knows.

[@k-aw-teksleepysageuni8181]

All these aseggual nerd who just wanna be fin domed by Chris "Daddy" Roberts. 🤣

[@pigpenstrikes9400]

had my eye on SC for nearly it's whole life. Was gifted a ship a few years ago and check in on the game every few months. It DOES have improvements/updates, but the game is soooooo far from completion even if they add nothing else as far as content. It's either the shittiest development of a real game, or the most playable scam I've ever seen. At the rate they're working, the game will be what they set out to create in another 10 years.

[@RamdomGuy1337]

When I backed this in 2013 I was still in school, just met my girlfriend and recently came out. Over the same time they went from a single star system to a single star system with less planets, I finished school, went to Uni, got a BA, got a Masters, started my PhD, waited for same-sex marriage to be legalized in Germany, married my girlfriend, renovated a house and am now almost done with my PhD. I went from a slightly gothy nerd to a nature-person, avid gardener and bushcrafter, I evolved into an adult. Meanwhile they had to take out one of their moons and still struggle with 50 (!!!) people on one server, while raking in idiot ammounts of dough for selling lies. I also want to note that I got a 10 year ban from their own forums (Where you can only post once you have "pledged" for the "game") for reporting sexual harrassment via DMs to their mods. Just to give you an idea of what kind of gig this really is.

[@johnhonker437]

That's a lot of information that nobody cares about. Did you think that you were posting to Reddit, or maybe Tumblr?

[@Justacheese]

Well.. At least there is a tiny upside to all of this. You won't have to deal with any more sexual harassment cases now that you are banned from the forums. Sounds like it was a very strict place to be, to begin with.

[@RamdomGuy1337]

@@Justacheese Banned for 10 years because they are so inept that they cant figure out how to perm someone LOL.

[@RamdomGuy1337]

@@johnhonker437 Ayooo found the commando :^)

[@D0MiN0ChAn]

It's honestly unreal how this has been allowed to keep happening for all these years. Aber Glückwunsch zu den privaten Meilensteinen 🥳

[@doctorno3912]

As a long term backer your take is fair and spot on. It goes a bit further than this one issue within the community. It's been misstep after misstep since November last year. Absolute cop out from cig and I won't be funding their game going forward.

[@StJohnGaming]

This is the best summary of online communication within the last 5 years. "You are talking about something we don't want you to talk about or is hurting us, so now you are not allowed to."

[@TimeKitt]

I, a Dwarf Fortress player, looked at the Kickstarter and was like "Oh, this is a career long project that will never leave development because they love their work so much"

[@christianlewis6789]

Yep, seems as though it would've been pretty easy to come to that conclusion (I only found out about Star Citizen through YongYea's channel after looking up Stadia's absurd failure). These goobers are probably too inept in game development to make so much as a basic MORPG.

[@roetheboat1]

I'd say that a VERY big difference is that Dwarf Fortress is free and the two-person team working on it have been pretty open about it taking decades to finish.

[@Nerobyrne]

difference is, DF is freely available and has been for years. Although technically you can already play SC as well, no idea why they don't just release a working "early access" title like so many other indie studios.

[@misatotremor]

@@Nerobyrne This is what I also don't get. I actually like what they want to do and they can take their time for it. But why they did not release the base game and then added all the nice details and improvements to that, like any other MMO does, is beyond me.

[@Nerobyrne]

@@misatotremor Esepcially because *they currently have a playable game* Granted I'm not in the testing program so I don't know how much "game" is actually there, but clearly, people can play the game right now. So, they likely wouldn't have to do too much work to get it into a state where they have a solid base game that they can improve.

[@casgirlsam]

"roadmap is not a promise" how is it not? how is it not a list of things theyre going to do and when???

[@casgirlsam]

@Lassi Kinnunen 81 fair point. so THEIR roadmaps arent promises is what theyre saying it sounds like lol

[@AaronAlso]

Their Road Maps are not promises or even plans; they are pipe dreams.

[@Barb4sale]

"You are either delusional or misinformed" Exactly, we are misinformed, BY THEM on the deliverables sitting behind the contract of the Kickstarter... Oh boy, are we about to eventually get another class action? o.O Can you imagine paying for a class action defense from the kickstarter backers, with the money from your own website's ship sales? Holy fuck!

[@christianlewis6789]

I was never informed of this game concept's existence until just over two years ago and, honestly, I'm kind of hoping to see that happen just so that there's some precedent set for anybody taking money directly from the public in that way and feeling no responsibility. You take money from crowdfunding backers, you *do not* shit on them when you *know* that it is your actions that have pissed them off.

[@Retroisthebestyo]

the main problem is the man in charge is someone who needs limitations. All his previous games the wing commander series, starlancer, freelancer he had people above him that laid down here is your budget, here is your deadlines and kept him focused and on track. Now he doesn't have that and doesn't feel accountable to anyone so he adds a bit more and adds a bit more, takes to long so needs to update the engine and on and on he goes not for what his customers want for what he wants. On the plus looks like it'll be taking duke nukem forever crown for longest developed game but I hope for all who have bought in to this that it doesn't end the same as that game did.

[@memitim171]

That was literally the original pitch though so I can't understand why anyone is shocked by this "revelation" the game isn't finished 10 years later...

[@Gidon147]

I'm not in the whole star citizen thing and i personally don't get why anybody is at this point, but i do honestly think it's an eccentric man's labor of love in some way, and will probably be in a state that he himself is happy with, before he dies. Of all those ten years of observation, this is honestly a prognosis that I dare to make. It WILL happen, but it is absolutely NOT about any of its players, or what they want from the game. To Chris Roberts, this is going to be his one life accomplishment. But probably not for us, or the next generation of players.

[@LuaanTi]

@@Gidon147 You're assuming he knows how to get there, though. I doubt that. He has a vague idea of a magical final product that will "just work". Kind of fall out of all the individual parts that people are working on. It's much like Oasis in Ready Player One - it's fine as a setting of a movie ("demo tape"), but just imagine how many things would need to be fleshed out to get an actual game people would play. That's the difference between dreams, stories and reality. For a real game, you need everything working together. For stories, you just need the "game" to serve the story. For dreams, you can just go "You can go from planet to planet, isn't that cool?" It's pretty much the lowest bar of creation there is.

[@AnDr3w066]

Theoretically that should have been the backers that set the limits. Except the money kept rolling in because they liked the insane promises

[@johndonovan7018]

they didnt keep him anything. they FIRED him. microsoft literally told him to pack his shit and get the fuck out, took over the project in house and finished it and released. he isnt even in the fucking credits! learn your history and stop trying to smooth it out. he is a fucking con artist

[@unarmored9973]

The product-hostage business model is really quite genius; "Money stops, you get nothing. So keep paying until we say it's enough." - you'll get filthy rich while your fervent community makes all the excuses for why you still need MORE after $500m. Ongoing SC donors should be embarrassed.

[@williambilliam5001]

I found that the best way to approach someone begging me to give Star Citizen a shot is to tell them what I personally honestly feel: "I see the game and how cool it looks. That's great! I'll be buying a copy once I see the reviews for the game once it releases." This low bar of "full release", which other studios manage all the time, shouldn't be the "checkmate" for any game, especially this one with a decade-long+ development. EDIT: Mute the troll in the thread below and move on, unless you want free entertainment.

[@williambilliam5001]

It makes quick work of the game without even stepping into the controversy, which is fantastic.

[@zacharyfeehan832]

The thing about beggars is they'll always get someone with their song and dance.

[@uncannyvalley2350]

"Low bar that other studios manage all the time" 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 CyberPunk, Fallout 76, Battlefield 2042, Odyssey SC is a better game in Alpha than almost any other game at release

[@uncannyvalley2350]

Also hasn't been 10 years, even if we went by your bullshit claim that they started developing a 200 million dollar MMO in 2012 its only been 9 years, it was another year before CyberPunk was playabale, so you can't even get simple facts straight

[@uncannyvalley2350]

@@kungfudavie haven't spent a dime, not that that's relevant, do you have anything relevant to say that's actually about the game, you know something that isn't a strawman or deflection? Why don't you show us a better game and let's discuss stats.. Of course not, because you're a cult, you just like to join a herd and run with them, you don't have a clue about the game or anything about it

[@excalibersc5849]

I have been a backer since 2013, I have closed my wallet. The disrespect I feel from them now toward the backers, and players as a whole, has totally rubbed me the wrong way. Heck, many who now post their concern on spectrum even have their posting ability suspended for 7 days or more if you say something they don't like. That has how bad it has gotten. Yep, you don't dare to say something that is the truth or what they don't like about their disdain for us. So too me, the best way to protest is with your wallet.

[@parafitality2730]

I paid ~80 as a delayed payment for Freelancer when they first announced it around Kickstarter (when it was only SQ42 before persistent universe was promised) and have only checked in whenever I remember to. While I hope that some form of the game does come out eventually, this whole debacle kinda puts me off it... I think that CI were not really intending to be malicious at the time but rather just subject to a ton of scope creep

[@Tazytots]

They didn't attack the whole playerbase. They attacked the disingenuous trolls who heck-post on Spectrum every time there is a roadmap update. Are you one of those people? If not, the statement doesn't apply to you. That's how language works. Read the actual post and stop digesting youtube content that twists narratives to suit their fancy to get clicks.

[@Hemebean]

I've never seen that disrespect. Can you give an example ?

[@mariobadia4553]

@@Tazytots you mean the people that expect them to fulfill their promises and ask him what the f*** is taking them so long?

[@Tazytots]

@@mariobadia4553 No. Re-read my comment.

[@iamjordandavis]

when you receive over 400 million in funding, and 10 years to play with, you have no right to criticize people who want to hold you accountable

[@nknk5241]

You not gonna convince scammed that they got scammed

[@AquaCoalaNest]

A decade is such a long time in someone's life. I lost interest in a lot of games (and partially in gaming) in the last 10 years.

[@uncannyvalley2350]

🤣How Many People Play Star Citizen? We estimate that 427,994 people play per day, with a total player base of 15,017,337. Game Data Active development began in 2015, there was never a Kickstarter for a AAAA MMO, SC was born of the success of the kickstarter and uses tech that hadn't even been invented in 2012, it was only after they got so much money that a vote was taken and the PU 1.0 dropped in 2015. But look at you clones, parroting things you heard without even thinking to fact check them RDR2 = 900 million, 6000 staff, 8 to 9 years CyberPunk = 315 million, 5000 staff, 10 years Star Citizen = 250 million, 300 staff, 6 years. You can fit 1.8 million RDR2 maps into Stanton alone. They're doin OK. You should perhaps ask yourselves if you haven't fallen into a cult, seething over things that aren't factually correct, repeating the same mantras over and over and getting all toxic and hostile because people enjoy a game you know nothing about. Pretty obvious at this point who the cult really is, Star Citizen critics, most of which are no content trollfarm accounts.

[@uncannyvalley2350]

OP is a no content trollfarm account

[@Guru316]

Honestly this sounds like they are just prepping for the inevitability of this never being anywhere near finished. Gradually wind down their promises, have big limitations on informing the community on what is or isn't coming. Blaming your own community for your own failures is a quickfire way to kill your game.

[@jfaristide]

Every word of this.

[@MrBothandNether]

THIS

[@riptors9777]

How long till accusations of fans of being guilty of mysoginistic, homophobic etc. attacks on the staff are being brought forth? That usually is what happens when people nowadays are not happy about a product.

[@skybertie]

I was wondering what the end game would look like.... I think we are starting to see it...

[@FreelancerND]

Derek Smart said it years ago, that at some point CIG would call the current game state "Release" and bail out. Because they never told or legally confirmed what is "alpha", what would be "beta" and what would be "release". And since they delivery something, they are not legally accountable for "not delivering a product" =)

[@ShadowRulah]

This is the most expensive game ever made, they're not done making it, they're not done paying for it, and they're denigrating people who are actively giving them money but asking questions about the progress. People are defending them for this. Why in the name of god would they ever finish this project? The people whose money they're taking are actively against the idea that giving someone money in exchange for something means you're entitled to something.

[@uncannyvalley2350]

How Many People Play Star Citizen? We estimate that 427,994 people play per day, with a total player base of 15,017,337. Game Data Active development began in 2015, there was never a Kickstarter for a AAAA MMO, SC was born of the success of the kickstarter and uses tech that hadn't even been invented in 2012, it was only after they got so much money that a vote was taken and the PU 1.0 dropped in 2015. But look at you clones, parroting things you heard without even thinking to fact check them RDR2 = 900 million, 6000 staff, 8 to 9 years CyberPunk = 315 million, 5000 staff, 10 years Star Citizen = 250 million, 300 staff, 6 years. You can fit 1.8 million RDR2 maps into Stanton alone. They're doin OK. You should perhaps ask yourselves if you haven't fallen into a cult, seething over things that aren't factually correct, repeating the same mantras over and over and getting all toxic and hostile because people enjoy a game you know nothing about. Pretty obvious at this point who the cult really is, Star Citizen critics, most of which are no content trollfarm accounts.

[@dong7474]

@@uncannyvalley2350 CIG has 604 staff, not 300, RDR2 was worked on by 2000 not 6000. Seems like you only copied and pasted your first statement. You talk about other people falling into a cult and getting toxic or repeating the same mantras, but you sound like literally all the other dumbasses defending them for saying were the reason why they can’t develop their fucking game.

[@williamcrinigan5015]

@@uncannyvalley2350 Spamming the exact same reply in multiple comments that show anything but praise for the game does not make you seem any less insane

[@jh5kl]

@@williamcrinigan5015 check uncanny valley video called velvet revolution, i dare you lol

[@williamcrinigan5015]

@@jh5kl Not exactly convincing me of shit by him literally spamming comments with the same message over and over to literally anyone with a SHRED of criticism toward the game. Gonna have to give more than "just watch his video man" given the seeming obsession with telling people they're wringing the comments

[@AbcDino843]

This game is already dead. The only thing left, if it ever gets truly released, will be the notoriety. It will decrown Duke Nukem Forever.

[@SYL3NZR]

idk who can unironically claim selling "tentative" game features is even remotely close to moral

[@themodusfiles-afallout76po30]

Kira did a great reaction video a while back which highlighted that everything was supposed to be funded (including the stretch goals) in the first 50 million dollars…after 10 years they still only have 1 star system out of 105 promised…tell me again when this game is supposed to be done?

[@georgeblair3894]

The day after Pantheon releases.

[@LordGlarp]

Its to this day one of my favorite YT videos. I felt seen and understood for a moment lol. The development has been such a shit show.

[@neocodexx]

Theres not going to be 100 systems on release. Maybe a couple. They shifted focus from quantity into quality when that A/B vote was made.

[@troodon1096]

You'll be able to pilot an actual spacecraft in real life before this game releases.

[@LordGlarp]

@@troodon1096 Big true

[@AlexanderosD]

If CIG was in the food industry, they'd have half cooked burgers, late running orders, and angry customers walking out of their restaurant by now.

[@troodon1096]

Are you kidding? They wouldn't have even built the restaurant yet.

[@D0MiN0ChAn]

@@troodon1096 Yeah, they'd probably have a dozen menues with fancy meals on them, while not even have started looking on where to build the actual restaurant! 🤐

[@Qlicky]

Nah. They would be handing out burger and fries pictures, promising you might even try them one day, while charging $200 a pop.

[@mercenum5186]

Imagine if someone from 2022 went back to 2012 and ran up on stage as Chris Roberts was presenting his crowdfunded "dream game" and that person showed exactly what SC would have to offer in 2022. They would have laughed Chris Roberts off stage after tomatoing him

[@jasonnikolic]

For real. He'd have raised zero dollars.

[@chillysanders4415]

Since Star Citizen was "announced", I started middle school, finished middle/high school, worked for a year, joined the military, did 2 years of service (reservist), started college, changed majors, learned how to successfully play the stock market, and depending on how much longer it takes to release, I'll be educated enough where I could work on the game. In the time its taken CIG to not finish a game I have lived the most developmental years of my life. Imagine all the people who backed this project have died in the last 10 years.

[@wharghoul5012]

Not really, because back then we were all dreaming of what could be possible with this game, and what we have now is everything we dreamed of. Seamless space to planet transitions, a fully realized first person interactive star system. At the end of 2013 all we could do is sit in our ships in hangars and make pew pew sounds. What we can do now was something we believed was nothing but a pipe dream back then.

[@Chokingonthat]

Someone needs to wake him up and let him know that his dream is ass. Theres literally seamless universe modded servers for Space Engineers. A game with far deeper complexity in both physics and engine functions. This includes building and terraforming of the planets, moons and asteroids as well as full customization of ships or if you so choose, build your own damn ship from the ground up. Instead of playing a lame mini game in a prospector with some dumbass lazerbeam and basically just being given money for playing the mini game. You mine materials to process, which are tangible in the game world and affect your ships mass, Power draw on your thrusters and refineries/assemblers, and at the end of the day, USE, or if you so choose, sell. Sure, Space Engineers doesnt have massive cities with sprawling landscapes. (95% of which cannot and probably will not ever actually perform a function other than tanking the fuck out of your frames when youre trying to find the hangars so you can land. Dont give me shit about my pc specs, the frames are dog on top tier rigs and everybody knows it). Space engineers also doesnt have a cash store. You just buy the damn game. My reasoning for using space engineers as a reference for this comparison is that the time frame is pretty much the same, pre-release alpha was 2013. Theyre now fully released with mod support. Ive seen up to 300 players on seamless servers, a dozen planets with varying resources, ecosystems, gravity, storms and teaming with player activity. The only thing that is truly unique about star citizen is the controversy around it and the tsunami of cash that has flowed into their coffers. Theres nothing unique about star citizen. Every feature or idea has either been done by somebody else. Or isnt actually contributing to the playable content of the game. We wasted our money. Fin.

[@TheLumberjack1987]

sunk cost fallacy really is a bitch, nobody in their right mind would defend this game if they haden't put hundreds, if not thousands of dollars into it

[@jizamkizam9611]

I just think of what some other teams and studios could produce if they even had a fraction of that budget

[@asteridshydrangea-jt2hf]

This. This part really hurts.

[@ScepticGinger89]

This reminds me of that one politician of my country who once said that judging the ruling party by the promises they made during campaigning was "unfair".

[@OriginalItsFly]

This is a prime example of feature creep. Start Citizen fans will never get the game promised even if they waited another decade.

[@Gidon147]

Well if you compare star citizen to the actual universe then i'd say the actual universe suffers from much more feature creep than SC does, and everyone seems to be fine with THAT

[@OriginalItsFly]

@@Gidon147 you know it's a game right?

[@justinwhite2725]

@@Gidon147 the actual universe is released, though.

[@skitch8616]

@@Gidon147 you can't honestly be that dense can you I'm pretty sure Elite dangerous has a universe that is hundreds of times bigger than star citizens. The fact that you people think that Star Citizen is doing something great that's never been done before in any other game is absolutely benign pull your head out of your ass and get it together man. The shit that they're doing has literally been done in hundreds of other games already they're not doing anything special, they're a piece of s*** crackpot development team that has no f****** experience whatsoever in what they're doing which is why it's taking them so long

[@LtZerge]

@@justinwhite2725 Real life still feels like an alpha and people seem to be fine with THAT. The RNG spawn mechanic and permadeath is an abysmal combination. Bad game design

[@devildelirious8662]

No wonder why zero publishers will touch this

[@blipblop1806]

My husband bought into this from the very beginning. He tried playing it again a few months ago - and it was literally unplayable because of multiple bugs which he couldn't get around in any way. He asked in chat if it was normal and what to possibly do and was basically meant with "You're a hater, just deal with it. The bugs are fine." 😂

[@DeadlyDiper]

That reddit user deeming others delusional for not buying a dream is the perfect example of the pot calling the kettle black

[@surgicalglitch3265]

The only people keeping SC afloat at this point are whales. I went into their ship event this last month and boy oh boy! These limited edition ships that were selling for $400-$1000+ sold out so quick... Literally, they put so much effort into these ships and concepts because they don't need to provide anything else to keep the money machine pumping. I couldn't call SC a 100% scam, but it most certainly is being deceptive and using its player base. That is willing to drop insane amounts of money on promises and digital assets that they can fly around in what is essentially a miniature game world compared to other highly detailed and living game worlds.

[@SkyForceOne2]

true, there are alot of people that just have the money to put into the game and it does not hurt them one bit.

[@Malaclypse_the_Third]

2 years later. Cyberpunk 2.0 re-released for free alongside it's expansion. Reputation recovered. Starcitizen.... still waiting.

[@IAmAzarath]

In other words, business as usual at CIG. I'm glad you covered it though, a lot of new people get suckered in through CIG's fancy marketing, without realizing their history of absolute incompetence, and how badly they treat their community.

[@jh5kl]

though kira made a stupid video against a critic of s citizen before

[@IAmAzarath]

@@jh5kl You mean his first Star Citizen video? I don't remember him being supportive of CIG or against the overall critique. I mean he's not as critical as I would be, but he has the perspective of someone who hasn't followed the project closely.

[@LtZerge]

I understood Star Citizen itself being essentially turned into a perpetual live service type development after "the poll", but it was SQ42 that had me wanting deadlines. That's a campaign with a defined scope, and the thing that kept me invested at the time.

[@HiddenStr3ngth]

Yes, seems this is often ignored.

[@biggiewiggie5557]

Wasn't SQ42 a mess when it first dropped? I remember it having game-breaking issues mainly because of the studio they had working on it wasn't experienced in the engine they use whatsoever.

[@jfaristide]

@@biggiewiggie5557 it never dropped.

[@biggiewiggie5557]

@@jfaristide absolutely HILARIOUS

[@IronPhysik]

Im a very small SC content creator and I play the game daily and have tons of fun doing so But well.. CIG management just sucks taking the Coffeeshop barista AI that was added to the roadmap as a example, why is it that Developers are working on such a absolutely not needed feature? We already have a barely working bartender AI, but now further Dev-time is wasted on making the same thing again? and that instead of using the time of AI-devs to work on... lets say... Pathfinding between ground and vehicles General AI pathfinding in flight and on the ground NPC crews NPC taxi missions and more We dont need coffeshop baristas, thats a "nice to have" feature that would usually be added in a beta we are in a alpha for 10 years and yet miss absolute basic gameplay loops that are promised to us since 2018 *cough cough salvage*

[@northwindhighlander]

I'll never be convinced that for the amount of money they've grossed, that the product that's playable now, took even 10% of that money.

[@UltromanTheTacoman]

Oh, that's easy in game development, when you're a perfectionist like Roberts apparently is (except with his estimations). He needs to understand that you have to cut corners and that half of it has to be smoke and mirrors, otherwise your customers' rigs won't be able to run it, and you'll be spending a ton of time on tiny details that don't matter to 90% of your customers. As many others have said, they should have developed and released the first vision, and then added onto it with DLCs, just like every other game studio. This venture has been ridiculous from the beginning. I am baffled that it keeps going.

[@billywashere6965]

Cool, so name games with 10% of Star Citizen's budget that has all of Star Citizen's features? Because I will play that game in a heartbeat.

[@rangergames4488]

​@@billywashere6965 Eve online was started in 2003 with 4$ million. Released in like 2007, and if you apply the amoutn of time its taken star citizen to still be in development (a decade) by then eve online was already a massive game with 100x more content and quality than star citizen has been able to provide in its 10 years of develeopment.. not to mention.. EVE actually released....

[@rangergames4488]

The issue with star citizen is like many other developers and programmers have stated. They arent allowing themselves to be held accountable for their lack of competency on development. When you start calling your "pledges" nothing but noise when they try and call out the lack of direction development is taking there is massive problem. 10 years of alpha, for a game that still : 30k crashes numerous times in a day, HARD WIPES your data for releases that wouldnt even be considered DLCs, has more game breaking bugs than any game coming out now, the content is extremely lacking due to the developers focus on cosmetics... AND all this you pay for. I honestly dont see how this isnt considered a scam. They continue to push back release times, have a road map for content that now they say isnt a promise anymore (which in itself is a scam, if you release a roadmap for content then change the roadmap you basically are taking money from people and not delivering). No Man Sky released a game promising content that they later released in DLCs and the company name was RUINED as a scam bc they took money for the game and released the content later.. YET a game thats now been in alpha for a decade is not a scam for taking money from players and in return the same players lose 100% of their ingame purchases on DLC hard wipes, no longer have a roadmap for content, and the company literally calls its invester nothing but noise, and people defend them?? Mind Blown

[@billywashere6965]

@@rangergames4488 False equivalence to a massive degree. EVE is an RTS in space, it doesn't have a fraction of the tech requirements of Star Citizen. It's the equivalent of saying Minecraft released and has first-person elements but Escape From Tarkov hasn't. The fidelity, depth, gameplay, AI, and features requirements are on two completely different scales, it's also why EVE is bleeding players massively right now and majority have switched to Star Citizen, because what they had back in 2007 was cool back in 2007, but not today.