5008 Creations - How Siemens took over the American Passenger Rail Market

[@LJAllen13]

Amtrak having a middle school crush on Siemens is my favorite way of explaining the shift to siemens equipment... lol :)

[@ABR48YT]

The ACS-64 Was basically AMTRAK asking Siemens out on a date

[@jaguarbrunswick3906]

That you are as technologically advanced a nation as you like to pretend to be. OUR AMERICA IS THE BEST AT EVERYTHING. They would not buy Japanese, German, French, Canadian, Swiss trains, but these nations would buy trains from you. Your mouth is full of productivity, competitiveness, free economy, market competition. What you asked for is exactly what you got. WHAT IS THE PROBLEM NOW? It's exactly the same story with BOEING, once a true symbol of AMERICA, a superior product undisputed in the world. And today 70% of the parts are made outside America. They can't make a single plane that is serially correct. AIRBUS eats them for breakfast. But money, stocks and dividends are the greatest love of the American Oligarchs.

[@Edwardzzzz9]

Who knew that making reliable and good train actually works as a business plan?

[@tonyburzio4107]

The Chargers are hopelessly defective.

[@aoilpe]

Do I hear something like jealousy here ?

[@MrJimheeren]

@@tonyburzio4107right let me google that real quick. Oh look at that, you’re full of sh*t

[@Hahlen]

Certainly not Alstom

[@editoron]

@@tonyburzio4107 No they are not.

[@genoobtlp4424]

Afaik, Werner von Siemens literally invented electric traction for rail vehicles, they basically started that rail segment back in the 1800s and recently celebrated 150 years in the rail market

[@aoilpe]

It was around 1880…

[@georgobergfell]

Just like Daimler and Benz invented the Automobile and Mercedes Benz is also still around and successful

[@theempirestrikesback2939]

1879 First German Electric Train by Siemens presented at Berlin Trade fair.

[@davidsommer325]

​@aoilpe the 1880s are in the 1800s (he probably meant the century, not the decade).

[@genoobtlp4424]

@@davidsommer325 yup, wasn’t sure whether it was 1870s, 80s or 90s

[@udoeiblmaier25]

Sorry that I have to Correct you but "Siemens und Halske" was a mayor player in the German railways industry even before WW1. They where involved on manufacturing the first electric engines and power plants in Germany. They have played also a big role in the development and standardization of electric and electronic interlocking systems in Germany.

[@hape3862]

… and Werner von Siemens invented the first electric locomotive in 1879!

[@aoilpe]

@@hape3862 First USABLE/ USEFUL electric locomotive…

[@purplebrick131]

They also played a part in developing ETCS

[@renew1572]

also a lot of train in Europe are from either Siemens, Siemens daughters, or bombardier

[@aoilpe]

Why has my comment disappeared ?

[@gregoryclark8217]

Siemens is the only company in the world that can deliver an entire railway for you. They design and make trains, p-way, and signalling and telecoms.

[@dasy2k1]

And the electrification system

[@NeovanGoth]

⁠@@dasy2k1You need the electricity itself also? Siemens will happily build you everything from a wind turbine to a nuclear power plant.

[@juhajuntunen7866]

​@@dasy2k1 electroexecution was Edisons busines

[@CavHDeu]

Even the windows and windshields

[@BoredCapturer]

​@@NeovanGoth As well as the transformers too

[@alexspike7331]

Siemens knows how to run on American track. ACS have been cruising on the northeast corridor for decades. Meanwhile, alstom has been limping along, desperately trying to get their train sets to run

[@nicolasblume1046]

What's the specific problem of the new acela trains?

[@EmborFrost]

Uhhh acs have been running for decades?

[@nicolasblume1046]

@@EmborFrost read again: the "New acela trains" They are brandnew are still not in operation

[@de-fault_de-fault]

Not decades, but about a decade, and definitely trouble free, so the point still stands. The ACS64 has been great, and I have no doubt a new Acela from Siemens wouldn’t be this problematic. Hell they could order one today and it would probably be in service before Alstom’s ones.

[@TheRailwayDrone]

Lol ACSs have only been on the NEC since 2014. And when the new trainsets come out, those will be retired. Sad, but true.

[@Volvo_EG]

As a German it is absolutely hilarious how you pronounce the German stuff 😂

[@FreakAzoiyd]

Siemens is on point though

[@ELAlcoRS3]

They just need to Americanize the Venture seats to increase comfort. Additional recline would be nice too.

[@Dr_Reason]

I do not think recline is the right word. The seatbacks have two settings. Bolt upright and further forward.

[@dwightseufert6491]

They won't get any wider due to ADA (isle width for wheelchairs etc)

[@digitaleswerken]

It's interesting to see how the railstock and interior design of Amtrak is starting to look similar to the Austrian ÖBB.

[@TohaBgood2]

Yep, Amtrak is basically implementing premium OBB Railjet rolling stock on all its intercity trains nation-wide! This is actually an incredible win that most American foamers don't seem to recognize. Most national European rail carriers would kill to have their entire fleet consist of Railjet derived equipment!

[@Neuzahnstein]

Even viarail take the same approach

[@beyondEV]

@@TohaBgood2 There is a drawback. Like with brightline. These are luxury trains. Only catering to the above median people. Brightline Florida has it's cheapest seats about the same price niveau as the SBB for the same distance. But Swiss People earn a lot more.

[@TohaBgood2]

@@beyondEV That's the thing though. Amtrak is not getting these Railjet Siemens trains only for their premium services. They just bought them as the default intercity train for the entire country! That's what's so crazy about this! Amtrak went from a fleet of 1970s tin cans to a full fleet of premium Railjet equipment! I mean, com on! Who had this on their bingo card? I certainly didn't!

[@Tealice1]

I don't really seem to see the resemblance, which rolling stock is supposed to look similar to each other?

[@harrisonofcolorado8886]

Being a Denver resident, the RTD light rail trains here are ran with Siemens SD-100 and SD-160 LRVs which have operated on RTD's light rail system since the beginning. Seeing Siemens rise from an LRV manufacturer to a provider of most of the rolling stock on all sorts of passenger trains, I'm honestly amazed with Siemens' rise in American passenger rail.

[@reinhardheim6008]

Have a look beside the rails. Also a lot of good wayside equipment is now delivered, installed and maintained from Siemens.

[@djpetesake]

One of my professors referred to Siemens as "the GE of Europe"

[@bennie1138000]

Siemens will have even more orders. Metro North is replacing its genesis fleet and the LIRR is replacing its EMD fleet with chargers as well. Hopefully venture coaches will be ordered as well

[@FreeJaffa92]

Please don’t get my hopes up.

[@TheRailcarbusguy]

Probably not venture coaches because connecticut dot placed an order for 60 cars from alstom and they have an option for 313 cars which will be used to replace the shoreliner fleet

[@bennie1138000]

@@TheRailcarbusguy Yes you are correct. What’s also needed is a single level or redesigned bi level equipped with dual mode power to serve Grand Central Madison. LIRR diesel territory passengers deserve a one seat ride to the east side of Manhattan

[@Blank00]

My hope would be Siemens locomotive + Kawasaki coaches if they choose to replace those trains with trains of the same config, but they might do DMU, and I would root for Stadler if they choose the DMU option

[@Hahlen]

So the answer to the question is…they made good trains that work well…I wonder if Alstom has thought about doing that.

[@Merri-bekRailfan]

@@Hahlen well, they have, or at least for the Australian and European markets anyway…

[@ConfusedNyan]

Hi! Sacramento, CA resident here! A few things you might want to know about Siemens. I presently live and work near the Siemens Mobility plant which not only makes all the rollingstock you describe in your video, but quite literally the VERY FIRST customer they serviced is our very own Sacramento Regional Transit. They used Siemens-Duewag U2 LRVs. They made San Diego Trolley's U2s at the same time. Hell, I've even seen one of their LRVs in SacRT's yard at one point. Anyway, back on track, as it were. In order to meet their Made-in-America standards, they built the plant to assemble them here in Sacramento back in the 80s. . A side note: A lot of railfans call it "Florin", but it doesn't get called that here really. We call it the "Florin area". Parts of it are in the County of Sacramento and others are in the City of Sacramento (I believe the plant is in the County, while they have a campus in the City, both along the north-south UP tracks). Other plants Siemens makes parts in are elsewhere in the country, including one in Alpharetta, GA In case you were unaware, there's a bit more to the story of how and why the San Joaquins ended up getting the Ventures. 07:13 - About those Siemens Venture trainsets that CalTrans and Amtrak ordered? 12:17 - This is why. There is a bit more to the story here. As you know, Amtrak California, owned by CalTrans and operated in conjunction with Amtrak, initially used bilevel cars, many manufactured by Morrison-Knudsen and some by Alstom, a healthy number remanufactured by, guess who? Siemens. At the turn of the century, the San Joaquins was starting to experience serious capacity issues. The first step was to go from unreserved to reserved seating. Later, likely not just for the San Joaquins, CalTrans initially approached a consortium of Sumitomo and Nippon Sharyo, the latter having made rollingstock for multiple railroads, including CalTrain, MARC, Metra, Virginia Express, and South Shore Line to name a few. They designed a new generation of bilevel cars that would likely not only have been used for Amtrak California, but Amtrak Midwest as well. The design failed a buff test. As a result, the project would end up so far behind schedule and over budget that Amtrak abandoned Sumitomo-Nippon Sharyo, approaching Siemens for a possible replacement, which would end up being the Venture trainsets. In the meantime, CalTrans would acquire some of the older Comet IBs from New Jersey Transit, which were older-gen Arrow EMU modified into locomotive-hauled cars, some with cabs. CalTrans would remove the cab equipment from cab cars and convert all of them from commuter to intercity use. And thus the California Comets were born. According to the Wikipedia article about the Comet railcars, six of them, along with an NPCU, are now in southern California, for use by the Surfliners to help with their ongoing capacity issues. Anyway, I hope this helps to shed a bit more light on the Siemens story. Sacramento has been a significant part of railroad history for over a century, initially as the westernmost terminus of the first transcontinental railroad. It has since become the main location of a major rollingstock supplier for North American passenger railroads.

[@uncipaws7643]

For a long time Siemens didn't build complete locomotives, but provided electric equipment for locomotives that were mechanically built in other factories. That changed in the 1990s with the takeover of the Duewag, SGP and the locomotive building branches of Krauss-Maffei and Krupp. Unfortunately the Krupp locomotive works in Essen were subsequently closed. SGP Graz was specialized for bogies, Krauss-Maffei for Vectron locomotives, Duewag and SGP Wien for EMUs and trams, and there are a couple more. For the North American market a new factory near Sacramento was built, which is more integrated than the European factories: Most components, mechanic and electric, are produced there and the end assembly is done there as well. The diesel engines come from Cummins. I recommend this video showing how a Charger is built: kzbin.info/www/bejne/g4vIhJanj9aah5o&ab_channel=CoasterFan2105

[@DR_1_1]

Now the Chinese have bought Vossloh Locomotives, and they are selling trains to Germany and other European countries.

[@CSXIV]

Another thing I should point out about Siemens aiming for the CHSR and Brightline West contracts. Siemens manufacturing plant is in Sacramento, CA. Assuming the Phase 2 connection to the CHSR gets built, connecting Sacramento to the main line, they don't even need to ship the locomotives. They can just build a siding and drive them off the lot. And since Brightline West is planning on connecting to CHSR, they can do the same; drive them right off the lot and onto the main line.

In Germany is that Usual 🙃

There is also something strange connection. Where the trains are towed across the street. „Waggonbau Bautzen“

[@IroAppe]

The Siemens Velaro platform that powers the ICE 3, has strong similarities to the design philosophy of Starship Enterprise: Futuristic look outside, comfortable human décor inside, with a friendly and bright atmosphere, where humans feel comfortable. I tell you, watch an episode of Star Trek: The Next Generation. I feel reminded every time I board an ICE. Outside it looks like just it could fire proton torpedos and laser pulses, inside it feels like a warm and welcoming living room.

[@NeovanGoth]

Interesting comparison, and yes, you're right. I also love the ICE interior, particularly the use of wood. Feels more classy than say the very stylish, but colder and less humane interior of the French TGV for example

[@SiqueScarface]

The power of electric locomotives is given in kilowatts, because it's easier to calculate: 1 Volt times 1 Ampere = 1 Watt. Voltage of the overhead wire times current drawn from the wire gives you the power intake in Watts, and multiply that by the efficiency of the drive train, you get the power output - the magic of the metric system.

[@Genius_at_Work]

Only in DC. In AC, it gives you Voltampere, and the actual Watt depend on the Power Factor of your System. With AC, you need the Sine Waves of Current and Voltage to be in sync for such an easy Calculation. Because Coils and Capacitors shift the Sine Waves in different Directions, they usually are not. Realistic Power Factors are between 0.8 to 0.95, meaning to say you only get 80-95% as much Power as if you just multiplied Current and Voltage.

[@SiqueScarface]

@@Genius_at_WorkOk. If you want to be nitpicking, it is Voltage times Current times the cosine of the phase difference. And as DC has no phase difference on the virtue of not having phases, it's cosine of zero equals 1. And if you really want to be nitpicking, we have to add the same for each harmonic.

[@tonytins]

Basing the Charger off the Vectron really proved successful on their part. I grew up around the time Genesis locomotives just started rolling out, but was never really that fond of their designs, just the sound. The Chargers, on the other hand, I really do like!

[@namenamename390]

The Vectron really is the swiss army knife of locomotives. Need a powerful electric locomotive that can deal with all kinds of different electrification standards across Europe? Vectron! Need a replacement for old cab cars that can't run on your new high speed line because they don't have ETCS? Vectron! Want to dominate the US passenger locomotive market? Just modify a Vectron!

[@tonyburzio4107]

The most important thing about a locomotive is they are reliable. The Chargers fail on every single point. Having an Amtrak train being towed by freight locomotives while the Chargers still have that new car smell is incomprehensible and corrupt.

[@aoilpe]

@@tonyburzio4107 Electrify the railroads and you will see…

[@tonytins]

@@tonyburzio4107 But the video addressed that, saying it was due to how these locomotives are vented. I love seeing those cool vents, but I can see how it poses a problem. They go on how it isn't an issue out west, but more of a problem in the Midwest and in the high mountains, where it gets cold and more likely to freeze. Likewise, they're running at slower speeds at steep grades and narrow turns. I can see why they'd have trouble with harsher winter weather as opposed to wetter climates. I don't know about the faster commutator variants in the same region, but I rarely see the Genesis locomotives hauling those anymore.

[@beyondEV]

​@@namenamename390 ​ Siemens enjoyed for a long time basically a duopoly with alstom (outside east asia). The newest actual Variants on offer are the (from 2018 onwards, Dual Mode = 15kV + Diesel Electric) Vectron Dual Mode (DM) (Baureihe 248): Diesel E: 2000kW, Top Speed: 160 km/h Vectron Dual Mode light (DM light): Diesel E: 750 kW, Top Speed: 120 km/h So why would the come out with these in 2018? 2013 Stadler gets a Order for their EUROLIGHT..., a dual mode with 706 kW Diesel E but a 160 km/h Top Speed. 2017 Stadler ges a Order for their EURODUAL..., a CoCo, with 2500kW Diesel E with 120 km/h Top Speed. Stadler offering both CoCo and BoBo covers a wider range of options for the customer. vectron can do both... both ultimately there is a price of compromise. Meanwhile Stadler already upgraded their EURO series to also be able to have Tri Mode. With Batteries so they don't have to turn on their Diesel E for short durations. There will be a Vectron Copycat for sure. And Stadler entered the US market... first orders and first Major Plant Finished in 2019. They're for now focused on Flirt / Kiss EMU's... but they basically just entered the market. For now, Siemens has it easy with the US loco market. Breaking a Duopoly is hard. People tend to want a long legacy and "proven" product, when buying something like trains or planes. Stadler Rail massive grows shows: They can deliver well above their weight. As both Siemens and Alstom showed: All new Trains, even the ones based on a proven platform always suffer starting difficulties. The question is how fast can you overcome it and get them to be reliable. Buy US First will be beneficial in the long run for the US economy. Right now, it's a Gatekeeper. Keeping the best Systems from being deployed, as both Stadler and Siemens need to build more factories first. And you even have some US manufactures trying to use it the keep a ETCS-based signalling system from being deployed for brightline west.

[@alfred9977]

Low key good video, brief, funny, and informative

[@nik9172]

i love your efforts to pronounce German names🙂Great job, your videos are wonderful!!!

[@reinhardheim6008]

Siemens Schuckert would be easy to pronounce. It sounds like sugar with a T at the end. 😅

[@atholmullen]

Brightline chose a specification that allows them to run up to 10 passenger carriages between a pair of locos. They have apparently already ordered 20 more carriages, to be delivered in two batches. The first 10 are expected to arrive later this year, taking all ten trains from 4 to 5 carriages. The second batch will arrive next year, taking the trains to 6 carriages.

[@Pensyfan19]

Very well made video! I've always been a fan of Team Siemens ever since they made the Brightline Chargers almost 10 years ago. Also, I'd like to point out that the Brightline Venture coaches are practically flawless while the later built Amtrak/Caltrans Ventures have been plagued with mechanical issues, mostly due to Amtrak having a lower budget and being forced to choose worse contractors for the internal components. I can't wait for more Siemens equipment to enter service, and I especially hope that Brightline West chooses the AP220 over the Avelia Liberty. Also don't forget about Ontario Northland's proposed Chargers which not only look amazing, but are also the first Chargers to be purchased by a freight railroad.

[@ChrisTagle]

3:10 Siemens did make trains for Singapore, but they are different rollingstock (both trains and trams/LRVs) made for Melbourne, Australia.

[@kona6812]

The Singapur trains have been made by Siemens Verkehrstechnik in Vienna, Austria. And I did most of the welding QM.

[@AndrewTheRocketCityRailfan4014]

It’s like Union Pacific’s relationship with ALCO in the steam age, but broader and more well known

[@O530CarrisPT_C2]

Siemens also provided the AC electric motors for many NYC Subway R160Bs (8843-9102) and PATH's PA-5.

[@reinhardheim6008]

And Siemens also provides a lot of ATP systems (automatic train protection) to the American market. Also for CAF and Stadler.

[@lamegaming9835]

Siemens are great because they actually make dedicated passenger locos, not just glorified freight locos like the p42 and f40ph. If anyone knows how to make a good passenger train its them. Glad they have such a strong presence here

[@dasy2k1]

They also make great electric freight locos. Certainly most European freight is hauled by them these days. The USA really needs to just get on with electrification on its main lines... India has shown that it can work even with double stack container trains often with a more generous loading guage than the USA (India has double stacks on flat cars not even well cars) Sure the pantograph is crazy large but it works and works well... And for suburban passenger stock you could just run bilevel EMUs with a normal pantograph

[@joseaugusto-zo2vr]

​@@dasy2k1in usa not used toy freight train 😂

[@jnrfalcon]

I honestly hope we will see more Stadler EMUs in the US in the coming years. Feels like Siemens is already at capacity in Sacramento. Alstom is tarnishing their reputations with Avelia Liberty. Stadler may be able to fill in at least regular speed to low High Speed markets with their EMU and DMUs. Wouldn't be surprised if we see more and more FLIRTs on all kinds of commuter services, at least when it's time for them to upgrade rolling stocks...

[@aoilpe]

The Stadler KISS is going up to 125mph…in Europe !

[@jnrfalcon]

@@aoilpe apparently now they only count 155mph as true high speed. Anything between 125mph and 155mph are "higher" speed. Kiss and Flirt can do 150mph in service at least in some services outside Europe.

[@beyondEV]

@@jnrfalcon Stadler says 125 for the intercity variants. That's the in service speed. The can go quite a bit faster... but that's at a reduced safety margin. Outside Europe they may not care about safety in the same way . Have to remember: Both are regional train designs not intercity train designs (Variant 160 not 200, Top Speed: 100 mph). They later added the Intercity Variants. KISS is actually probably the fastest accelerating train outside of rubber tyre metro's. 1.3 m/s^2 for the BLS Variant. That's a BoBo-22-22-BoBo, technically you could order a BoBo-BoBo-BoBo-BoBo and then hold on for dear live, when it speeds up. And the Caltrain KISS more Power and Traction than two Chargers combined. So far, all US KISS are the 100 mph variant.

[@jnrfalcon]

speaking of... Metra just announced an order of FLIRT BEMUs

[@Genius_at_Work]

@@beyondEV Stadler also builds SBB's High Speed Train "Giruno", which can get up to 250 km/h (155 MPH). It also accelerates much faster than other HSR Trains, except perhaps the German ICE 4.

[@user-AZ-phil]

Siemens had the guts to design a reliable series of locomotives for Amtrak, and the courage to enter the "light rail" market. They then entered the passenger car market, one that had driven other manufacturers out of because of the lack of quantity production. Good engineering produced a easily modified design for different requirements. Add reliability, and the story heads on from there. 😂

[@reinhardheim6008]

The point is: Siemens uses approved European design and adds American standards to the products. The LRVs are mainly based on the Duewag trams for high floor vehicles and the Avanto tram train design (originally developed for France and Germany) for their low floor trams. The latest locomotives are based on the European Vectron platform and the Venturo trainsets were originally based on a development for the Austrian railways which got famous as rail jet.

[@Piusplac]

If you ever used the subway in bangkok, it was buildt by siemens as well, you can't miss their logos everywhere.

[@bencns]

I love the charger/venture trainsets. I recently rode a VIA one from Ottawa to Quebec city, and loved it. I honestly didn’t care that the ride was 6 hours, and could be cut down to like 4 if Canada got their shit together.

[@linesided]

Literally the best review on the subject. Literally. space space space Literally.

[@p4olo537]

Alstom issues are not the same in the US than in France, for the Avelia Liberty the issues seems to be on the tilting system but for the TGV-M it's a safety battery (not made by Alstom) who cause some issues.

[@senorspahrtan]

Slight correction, the retired Talgo cars on the Cascade are Series VI.

[@brianholmes1812]

I didn't even realise Amtrak were getting new passenger cars until I took a train from St Louis to Chicago and got to experience the venture for myself. And man are they comfortable! Hopefully they start rolling these out in the Northeast soon! I know plenty of rainfans are sharpening their pitchforks at the thought of loaing the GE genesis, but I for one welcome our new Siemens overlords, with their sexy modern locomotives

[@SleepTrain456]

I was recommended this video on the KZbin home page, and I found this video quite informative! As a San Diegan railfan who uses the bus and Trolley to travel to and from college, I often ride on Siemens S700 trolley cars... and just about every Coaster and Pacific Surfliner I've seen lately has an SC-44 on one end! Now, I know how Siemens climbed upwards over the last 175 years: from a German telegraph company to a European rail manufacturer, and then North America's main LRV company, and then Amtrak's "middle school-level crush" (a phrase I found amusing)... and possibly, the manufacturer of California's first high-speed trains (an American ICE)! Also, I learned that Thanks for the video! I'll subscribe to you, now!

[@Sacto1654]

You wonder why GE Transportation Systems (before that GE division became part of Wabtec) didn't step to build a true replacement for their well-liked _Genesis_ locomotive with a new model that is EPA Tier 4 compliant.

[@franciscogodoy9158]

Maybe because for the Genesis, they had to buy the (high speed) trucks from Siemens.

[@OG-Productions]

This video is great well edited, informative, and just overall great. I’m actually tempted to make a similar to it

[@Blank00]

I can’t wait to see Siemens come to Cleveland. The trains and LRVs there are overdue for replacement

[@Suburp212]

Good company, Siemens.

[@highqualityorangejuice420]

not shady whatsoever

[@mrxman581]

I hope Siemens gets the contract for CAHSR since they have a manufacturing plant in California.

[@tonyburzio4107]

A Failed locomotive design with no track is the perfect crime.

[@aoilpe]

@@tonyburzio4107 Jealous?

[@cooltwittertag]

​@@tonyburzio4107failed how?

[@cooltwittertag]

​@@tonyburzio4107siemens velaro novo is a tested emu, not a failed locomotive

[@jamesburnside3023]

Best engine for the job

[@toniderdon]

10:45 Small correction: Velaro Novo, not Valero Novo

[@robertheinrich2994]

the v is usually pronounced more like a soft f and in german, you speak the letters in the order of where they are in the word. I know that english has a lot of situations where letters spoken actually switch places (because to make it harder?) but you nailed the pronounciation of siemens, it works practically for every word in german.

[@ceemichel]

Siemens started out in rail making the electric components for other companies be it for Krauss-Maffei, Krupp, Henschel, etc. Those companies would rely on companies like Siemens, BBC (Brown, Boveri), AEG (General Electric of Germany). Over time, some of those companies were acquired by Siemens or rivals, leading to the two leading companies being Siemens and Asea-Brown Boveri (ABB). ABB was acquired by Daimler Benz and renamed ADTranz prior to its acquisition by Bombardier Rail. Siemens today is the largest train manufacturer in Germany and globally.

[@beyondEV]

They have a Duopoly. Should never have been allowed. Same as for Boeing and Airbus. Can't really sent someone to bankruptcy for being to s***, if you then left with a monopoly. It may change over time, Stadler is expanding fast. They don't offer high-speed, yet.

[@Kuatier]

The largest rail manufacturer of the world is CRRC (China) and if you dont count China in, Alstom is still larger than Siemens (which is probably going to change tho)

[@GiovanniBausC]

Railway vehicles is something Siemens does definitely better than software.

[@SiqueScarface]

1:45 Small correction: When Werner Siemens was founding Siemens&Halske, he was not a 'von' yet. He got elevated into Aristocracy in 1888 and turned into Werner von Siemens, more than 40 years after founding the company.

[@gottfriedheumesser1994]

You must not forget that most of the European main lines are electrified. So European train and locomotive builders have much more experience than the American ones, who also did not build fast passenger trains for decades.

[@Clickworker101]

Stadtler Rail is Basically tooSmall but also could be a competitor in the future

Stadler and Siemens like to work together in Europe. And both are known for high-quality trains in Europe.

Like „S-Bahn Berlin“ have Siemens-Stadler Trains

[@IroAppe]

Yes, I think Stadler would be a good addition for America if they want to diversify their fleet.

[@Genius_at_Work]

@@IroAppe They already do. Caltrain's Electrification is doen with Stadler KISS Bi-Level EMUs, and Stadler FLIRT are used in many Commuter Rails all over the US, both Electric and Diesel-Electric. And Stadler's Naming Scheme is ridiculous, they also have the TANGO Tram...

[@reinhardheim6008]

Stadler and Siemens are both Well customer orientated. They can be competitors in the one field and work together in another project. Always in the best way for the customers.

[@sihocolus]

The funny thing is there are more and more German Trains (1), US variants of German Trains (2) or at least Trains from German Companies (3) present in the USA. For example 3, we have Siemens who are making the Locos like the NCTD Sprinter ACS-44 or the Bright Line variants, for 2 there are the ACS-64 that is US based version of the in Germany and Europe used BR 193 (Siemens Vectron), as well the ALP-45DP and ALP-46, which are the US variants of the German BR 101. Although as for the ALP-45DP, Germany doesn't have such Loco with only one Cab. For 1 it's NCTD again with the Sprinter, using former Deutsche Bahn Siemens Desiro Classic. I am constantly trying to figure out if there are Trains in other countries that you either usually only have in Germany or if they're still look alike, non-German Variants. And I was able to find A TON of them in so god damn many Countries. The ICE 1 once in the US, the Siemens Velaro (ICE 3 for us) in Spain, Russia, and China, the Velaro D (ICE 3 Neo for us) between GB and France as Eurostar and another one in Turkey, the BR 101 as ALP-45DP and ALP-46, the BR193 as ACS-64, the BR185 as CR-Class HXD3B in China, the BR 152 as Class 8100 and 8200 in South Korea, the BR 187 as Class 8500 in South Korea, the Type D (a) and Type G (b) class Subways (Berlin) in Pyongyang Metro (a) or Overground S-Bahn/Metro Mix (B) in North Korea, BR 644 as Former O-Train in Canada, BR 648 (Coradia LINT 41) also O-train in Canada - both of them still had the DB Design on their seats still on while in service for O-train. For tram, there is an unknown Tatra Tram that is based of a T5D6 (One Car, 2 Gogies) once in the US, now back in Germany somewhere, unknown if in service, many Tatra KT4D from Berlin in East Europe, especially in Ukraine after the BVG put them out of service, and a GT4N-ZR Tram in Koumamoto, Japan which is a Special variant based of the GT6N-ZR, that is only used by the BVG in Berlin. The only difference here is the missing Middle Car, hence why it has 4 in its name for 4 Axles, (2 bogies, one per car). There are probably more Trains Made only for Germany before or made by German companies or whatever else, which is why I also listed some trains from Alstom and Bombardier, because you see those Locos in masses in Germany, so for German rail fans it could be a new world for them like myself seeing these in action on the other side of the world. Sorry for putting a big as hell useless chuck of information but sometimes I can't hold back 😅

[@StefanWithTrains]

Great video!

[@christofs1196]

Great documentary, thanks. One piece of the Siemens story in the U.S. is missing: Siemens brought the 3-phase traction system to the U.S., starting with the SD60MAC and subsequently the SD70MAC to SD90MAC as well as LIRR DE30AC and DM30AC.

[@SodorFan15]

Funny this came on my recommended, I just saw my first Amtrak train yesterday on my way to Seattle. And wouldn't you know it, the was a charger at the head of it. Great video, you've earned another sub.

[@FreihEitner]

The only real issue with US passenger rail buying sprees is that we reach a point where the major player (Amtrak) and all of the major regional commuter services need to buy, one company gets a lot of orders, and then there's no need for new motive power for a dozen years or so. EMD was "the" powerhouse from the 1940s through the 1970s, culminating in the F40PH and GE also had a few passenger models in there -- then beyond the 1980s there were no orders and no new passenger locos until the F59PH which sold in okay but not great numbers, mainly to Amtrak, GO Transit and Metrolink, then nothing again for a few years until Amtrak began to retire the F40 and bought GE Genesis P40 and P42 models, then nothing again until the mid-2000s when MPI hit the market with a few custom-built EMD-equipped units which sold okay but not great, and then nothing again until the late 2010s with the Siemens Charger. When US passenger rail goes looking for new equipment again in 15-20 years, who will there be?

[@hape3862]

Don't worry, Siemens will be there, just like it has been for the last 177 years. They have _invented_ the electric locomotive, they won't go anywhere.

[@the_retag]

They also sell freight locos and all kinds of stuff in europe and globally​@@hape3862

[@thomaspriewasser6660]

Most likely Siemens, as their market is not almost exclusively the US. + they have diversified their portfolio of products to the point, that if one breaks, they're going to be fine.

[@lars7935]

Siemens has been building electric trains for 150+ years. In 150 years they will still be doing that. They literally have the most experience of any company in the field.

[@deonellis8577]

Well...they built the fastest train ever (even without wheels) ICE-1 for the US😂 We're already on ICE-4... Lucky to have them here!

[@larryhankins3586]

It really makes sense, take a a great German locomotive and Americanize it, that's the same thing EMD did with the AEM7, they took a great Swedish locomotive and did the same thing, two of the best locomotives AMTRAK has every had.

[@captainminecraft631]

I've noticed that coaster trains are typically 4 cars long, while surfliners are typically 6.

[@Ghfvhvfg]

Amtrack and Simens. Stadler and SBB same deserved love

[@justagiraffe2868]

I mean, TECHNICALLY, Metra KIND OF could buy an EMD locomotive. The remains of EMD were bought by Caterpillar and rebranded as Progress Rail, who then designed a passenger locomotive for MetroLink

[@Imbored2much]

Hey thats Fullerton station @ 7:30

[@TherconJair]

One reason is probably that there's simply not too many international locomotive builders left. All other general European locomotive builders were ultimately either bought up by Alstom or Bombardier, and Bombardier was bought by Alstom.

[@cooltwittertag]

in the case of bombardier, trash got bought by trash

[@lvovodessa]

Don’t forget CAF (Spain), Talgo (Spain), Stadler (Switzerland) and the presence of Hitachi in Europe (especially in Italy).

[@TherconJair]

@@lvovodessa I left them out purposefully because most of them make niche products for very specific use cases and do not sell the same model (or variation) worldwide. Stadler made mainly shunting engines before they acquired Vossloh Valcenia in 2016 and these locomotives were mainly made for cargo operations. One likely reason is that most European trains, especially regional, are now EMUs for the increased traction and the easier low floor implementation due to the use of jacobs bogies. And if you can't uncouple carriages easily, why implement a locomotive to uncouple easily? The result is that mostly cargo locomotives are needed.

[@manuelbreuer7074]

​@@TherconJair That's exactly the point. Multiple units are becoming more and more popular in Europe, not only in regional transport, but also for long-distance trains, as high-speed rail is spreading further. The rate of line electrification is also much higher in Europe and about 80 percent of all rail transport performance within the EU is carried out on electrified lines. Regional transport on electrified lines usually operates at commercial speeds up to 160 kph (100 mph), wherever the topography allows, so there's not a big market left between high-speed rail and regional transport in many countries and areas. Also double-deck EMUs for regional and long distance transit have been coming up more and more during the last decade, which had been too inefficient before. There are only few exceptions today, like night trains are booming again nowadays. Therefore, it's no surprise that most locomotives sold in Europe today are used for freight rail. Siemens has already sold more than 1,100 locos of the underlying families "EuroSprinter" (electric) and "EuroRunner" (diesel) to European rail operators and many more to non-European operators (excluding the US market). Freight trains in Europe are much shorter and much less heavy than in the US, as topography and habitat density doesn't allow for longer trains than usually about 700 meters (a little less than half a mile). On the other hand, they're also faster (as on almost every line there is heavy passenger traffic with short headways). The commercial speed of freight trains in Europe is usually 100 kph (63 mph) as long as the topography allows for. That fits neatly in between regional passenger service with its top speeds of 160 kph (100 mph) and a corresponding cruising speeds including stops. The heaviest freight trains in Central Europe weigh 4,000 metric tonnes and can easily be hauled by two electric engines of the "EuroSprinter" family or similar. Bt this is already quite exceptional. The average weight of long distance freight trains in Europe is about 1200 metric tonnes. But also passenger trainsets powered by Siemens "EuroSprinter" locomotives with commercial speeds up to 230 kph (144 mph) are in service and quite popular in several European countries. All German high-speed EMUs (about 370 trainsets, many more are on order) and many more high-speed EMUs for other countries have been built by Siemens as well. The correct name for the Siemens high-speed EMU family is "Velaro", btw. The name of the Siemens passenger coach family is "Viaggio" (Italian for "journey").

[@maiyo8518]

Siemens also makes fire alarms! Fariday and Cerberus pyrotechnics.

[@dustin4]

Great video! You’ve earned a sub

[@SignalMan9292]

Oh by the way Siemens also took over the Grade Crossing Market pretty much. UP, NS, BNSF, CN, CP, and CSX use Siemens S60 Gate Mechs. And Siemens also has took over the Wayside Signal Markets.

[@Wawa111_Mainline]

there was an alc 42 that froze about a week ago on the empire builder

[@DEVILHARSHA]

Siemens won a 1200 loco contract in India as well

[@jeroen2535]

In Europe (yes this time actually Europe as a continent) the Siemens Vectron is everywhere! In passenger and freight services.

[@KnightOfKnights]

Love me some rhythm heaven/paradise music in the background. I just finished a few levels perfect the other day. Siemens is nice, but the Stadler FLIRT and KISS I've been riding in my area are just 💙

Siemens and Stadler are known in Europe for their high-quality trains. Siemens rather for mass production, and Stadler for special vehicles, as well as regional trains. You will find a lot of Stadler regional trains in Europe.

[@Spike-xk3kt]

You missed the F69 which kinda surprised me because that was huge for adopting AC traction in the US and Metra adopted the body for they’re F40’s. Also I’m surprised Siemens hasn’t tried touching the freight market yet with a freight version of the charger

[@beyondEV]

Charger is to Light for the US Freight Market. A Co Co (6 Axles) is better for the much heavier US Cargo Trains. Charger has only 3000kW (Probably could get to about 4000 with this platform) and weight on wheels basically limits effective max. traction to about 180 kN (90t*2). With a Co Co Basis like Stadler Eurodual you could get up to 6000 kW, about 250 kN eff.. You could get more out of Vectron, but the loco is designed for a weight of 80-90t. The reason you have BoBo like the Vectron used in Cargo in Europe is: much lighter Trains, much faster Cargo Trains, mostly Electrified = 6-7000 kW for a 80-90t BoBo loco is possible.

[@Genius_at_Work]

@@beyondEV Bombarier adapted their TRAXX Platform for probably the closest you can get to US Freight in Europe though. The LKAB IORE Locomotives on the Malmbanan Ore Line in Sweden and Norway are based on the TRAXX Kit. Basically a stretched TRAXX Locomotive on Co-Co Bogies with added Ballast to gain Traction (Wheel Loading on the Malmbanan is 32 t instead of 22 t in other Europe), upscaled the Traction Equipment and slapped two of these Contraptions together. They only have one Cab because they always run in Pairs. Winter-proofing them to cross Mountains north of the Arctic Circle also took some Engineering Effort.

[@Pisca-kk5cs]

FYI the Venture cars came from project Viaggio … also known as Railjet

[@IronHorsefan1869]

Also the old talgos were series 6

[@ReniniPanini]

early congrats on 1k subs! Great content!

[@Eduard.Popa.]

Excellent trains...

[@plus6099]

Still, the best invention by SIEMENS is their famous "Lufthaken".

[@adventuresofamtrakcascades301]

Fun fact: for the ACS64 story, Amtrak actually skip locomotive #666 for some odd reason

[@IronHorsefan1869]

Actually the Cascades don't have issues with them, only Chicago with it's lousy maintenance

[@filanfyretracker]

I once visited the Chicago area, the craziest train thing for me was standing at a Metra station and seeing a freight train come through. It totally baffled me because its a commuter railroad, You dont see freight trains on the Metro-North outside NYC.

[@TruenoD12]

You ride the Singapore Subway it was feeling like I was in Germany because it was built in by Siemens

[@casfection]

13:00 old town san diego tranist center?

[@berndhofmann752]

Siemens is a very good company! Greetings from Germany

[@Blank00]

They also supplied propulsion for some MTA R160 subway cars, as well as PATH PA5, the MBTA Blue Line trains, and CTA 7000 series trains. Didn’t that also help contribute to their rise?

[@tomh3652]

Who else was going to build the engines for Amtrak since G.E does not anymore. This was the only choice really.

[@Thommygun-qv7um]

Nice video. I would be interested if they will also build a substite for the P32AC DM.

[@alittlebitgone]

Singapore has a mass transit system in Australia now? Why?

[@TheFrogfather1]

We spent six weeks travelling around the US by rail and barely any of the services we were on were hauled by Siemens locos - the Coast Starlight had one Siemens and one P42 but otherwise it was P42s all the way.

[@Sacto1654]

They're only starting to roll out the new Siemens long distance locomotives. Siemens Mobility is still doing a lot of tweaks to improve reliaiblity, especially in cold weather.

[@paynteck4473]

what is the name of the music at 9:00?

[@NModellbahn]

Its funny to see, that every country needs its special configuration of trains. Only to have a special configuration. All these trains are similar to the electric german / european modells expect the outside looking. Why dont buy a Siemens Vectron. I could imagine, that would be cheaper. They already built over 1000 Vectron in Munich. But however. Nice Video😊

[@TrimeshSZ]

There are a whole bunch of US specific technical requirements, many of which exist because the US has so many at-grade crossings and terrible drivers and hence collisions with cars and trucks are common. On top of this, US tracks are - to put it politely - of highly variable quality because a lot of them are only maintained to the level needed for fairly low speed freight services. You also have the issue that only about 1% of the US rail network is electrified, so the sort of designs used for the German ICE, IC and EC services simply won't work there. The electrification issue is further complicated by the fact that in some parts of Europe (including Germany) the standard traction supply is 15kV @ 16.7Hz (I.E. 50Hz / 3), which is obviously not compatible with the US 60Hz power. Since getting infrastructure improvements done in the US is even slower than Germany and most of the rail infrastructure is privately owned updating the US rail network to use unified power (25kV @ 60Hz would make the most sense) is something that's going to be either geologically slow or (more likely) just not happening.

[@NModellbahn]

@@TrimeshSZ Youre right. Its not that simple as i explained it 😊 i think you have a great change, to built a great railway system, including high speed trains. You got a lot of space for new tracks and great distances between cities. Here in germany it is difficult to built up new rails, because the routes are built in 1800 and are often close to cities and villages. Maybe times will change... but we all got car industry and they dont like trains 😊

[@thecockerel86]

Despite Siemens's best efforts, US trains continue to look charmingly old fashioned. They look like they came from the 1950s-'80s. Sweet old USA!

[@mildloser2248]

the chargers do not look like they are from the 50s

[@Freddsche]

Nothing that Siemens build for the US market and mostly build by Americans looks old fashioned. Big country, big distances, rough climate conditions, everything needs to be practical, robust and reliable. No space for bells and whistles.

[@joseaugusto-zo2vr]

In usa not toy train😂

[@JuanSanchezGuerra]

I wonder if Siemens will win the long distance procurement.

[@graphtonix6607]

Will Amtrak ever go back to the F69PHAC diesel electric locomotive design anytime soon???

[@genethebean7597]

I like Siemens engines a ton. Their quietness, clean operation, and generally good record (especially compared to locos from EMD or GE) is a big plus. But their rolling stock is certainly overrated. I just wish they didn't force the Euro seat configuration on US rail. The trip from Pontiac, MI to Chicago is nearly 6 hours, and spending that time in the, frankly, "un-American' seats could start to get difficult after a bit. Keeping the general seat width and pitch, but appending all the improvements currently seen on the Venture coaches, would have made a dream coach that would likely not need a reno for over a decade. In light of Siemens' config decisions, I would seriously hope that the Amfleet II's (and the Superliner coaches, when they're replaced in 20 years) aren't Siemens-based. Imagine spending 24+ hours in a Venture coach seat. These two are going to need to be American standard if long-distance rail survives the 21st century.

[@cornkopp2985]

I doubt that they'd reuse venture seats in the superliner coach replacements, because they need to function as beds too. I honestly don't know if siemens will get the contract or not, frankly with how many back orders siemens has, it seems smarter to go to a different company anyways.

[@gamerfan8445]

@@cornkopp2985the problem is what company can do it.

[@roadrunner6224]

Search for „New Nightjet“, those are the brand new sleeper trains for the Austrian Railway. Also made by Siemens.

[@Selivio]

Normally, an operator choosses the seats and seat configuration here in europe. Is that different over there? I assumed that Amtrak had complete freedom to choose seating and lay-out...

[@cornkopp2985]

I do worry that this will have a negative impact down the line, since siemens is at a point of market saturation that they can be considered a de facto monopoly. Frankly I don't have much faith in Alstom after all the issues with the avelia liberty, but I'd really like to see some alternatives to siemens from a different company. There are plenty of companies with smaller US footprints, but enough global resources to step up if they got a big order for something like superliner replacements. Talgo, CRRC, stadler, hitachi, kawasaki etc all have manufacturing plants in the US, or will soon, and could easily be scaled up to provide some alternatives.

[@gamerfan8445]

Yeah however they aren’t doing it. So let be happy we getting new equipment

[@portcybertryx222]

Yeah but I don’t think any of them have build reliable locomotives that are tested in the US apart from Stadler with its DMUs. Only GE can if they wanted to but I doubt they would restart any production.

[@gamerfan8445]

@@portcybertryx222 if GE dose it will definitely be a battery loco.

[@portcybertryx222]

@@gamerfan8445 yeah the hydrogen and battery loco craze has taken over especially with freight

[@ecoRfan]

I’m with you. Alstom has been bugaboo for awhile in the US spec market. I have my doubts at the moment about CRRC with geopolitical tensions and the major problems with the MBTA Red Line order. Stadler is a good bet though as a Siemens rival succeeding.

[@TheRailwayDrone]

Cool video.

[@jonathangros1086]

The Avelia liberty train set made for Amtrak can't really work well since the governement don't want to modernize the 100 year old track on the northeast corridor.

[@Gonnygbs]

nice video

[@Wolfey1231]

When it comes to the chargers,the Trinity Railway Express is planning on buying at least 5 locomotives.

[@thatrandomguy8124]

texas highspeed rail is almost certainly going to buy the latest shenkansen so i dont know about a complete takeover

[@Coolprime628]

Watching this makes me want to buy some of these in HO scale

[@Kuricang31]

3:08 Singapore and Australia are two different countries. C651 is used by and only the Singapore's MRT. Not "for Singapore rapid transit in Australia" lol

[@DinosDragonsYT]

One thing i hate about the SC-44 charger is that it can't survive the winter

[@Ghfvhvfg]

Cool that thos cahrgers are based on Vectrons