The Siemens Charger is really confusing and I've given up on solving it

Рет қаралды 11,517

Күн бұрын

Пікірлер: 152

@davidwhiting1761 2 ай бұрын

Amtrak's probably too used to servicing Genesis units and might be trying to operate and service the Chargers like they would a P42. The big reasons locos like the SD90MACs and AC6000CWs didn't do well was more related to indifferent maintenance and operations treating them like SD70s and AC4400CWs. Shops didn't want to learn how to take care of them because they were already used to earlier GEs and EMDs, so they weren't properly maintained or operated and when stuff inevitably broke the railroad shops claimed the design was faulty.

@andrewreynolds4949 2 ай бұрын

Another reason railroads didn’t like the larger, higher horsepower locomotives is they cost a lot more in maintenance

@nolantherailfan5048 2 ай бұрын

The chargers are still more reliable than any crrc train

@peterfrank29 2 ай бұрын

A Quote from Brightline’s Chief Mechanical Officer Tom Rutkowski...First, the trainsets come ‘home’ every night. One is always out of service for maintenance, 7 spend the night at Basecamp in Orlando, and two layover at our West Palm Beach facility. Second, we minimize idling; we run them hard, then shut them down when they are not operating and put trainsets on ground power.” During a Miami layover, for instance, the engines will automatically shut down after 20 minutes unless air pressure or battery voltage drops too low. Periodic maintenance is spread out up to a year in advance, “to make sure we have the necessary maintenance windows,” Rutkowski says, adding “There is no Plan B; we’re just on it every day and have to have the same level of diligence.” Siemens has the maintenance contract but the two companies’ employees work side-by-side. “Our uniforms are identical, the only difference is the name on the back,” he says.

@randomscb-40charger78 2 ай бұрын

Don't forget climate is a factor too. Since there isn't much of a difference between South and Central Florida climate wise, the engines are pretty much fine, as well as said climates being ideal for not causing breakdowns.

@EscondidoRailfan 2 ай бұрын

bros gonna crash out

@TexasSoCalRailfan9021 2 ай бұрын

Yeah

@roscalenecrailfanning8847 2 ай бұрын

Lol

@poultrypants 2 ай бұрын

exactly what I was thinking... 😂

@poultrypants 2 ай бұрын

"meanwhile freaking bright line and nctd and Ace and everyone else is all just chilling over here just perfectly fine" *demonic laughing* 3:51

@j-bird1778 2 ай бұрын

My thought is that because Siemens is relatively new to this specific market, they are having to screw around and find out what works and what doesn't.

@harrisonofcolorado8886 2 ай бұрын

I have a feeling that any Charger problems are more of an Amtrak (corridor) issue than a commuter rail/Brightline/VIA Rail issue at this point.

@SupremeLeader-Kim-Jong-Un 2 ай бұрын

Huh, I never thought that only Amtrak chargers decide to die for whatever reason.

@parkerjon29 2 ай бұрын

I really think it's specifically more of a Chicago issue. The ALC 42s on the FL trains seem to do fine

@maestromecanico597 2 ай бұрын

I was the first mechanic hired to work on the Chargers in SoFlo. Before that I was a MoE mechanic for IPH. The Charger is NOT our father’s EMDs or GEs. They are not idiot proof. If you add the usual thick engine oil like for a 645 or 7FDL16 into the crankcase of a QSK95 it WILL fail in spectacular fashion. If you add water to the engine cooling system it will degrade and eventually fail. Post-incident chemical analysis of the oil and coolant will show what happened and void the warranty. There has been, and continues to be, a significant learning curve integrating Chargers into the railroad.

@metropod 2 ай бұрын

That's an issue I think that gets overlooked a lot...wide scale changes that rub the "old ways" the wrong way. I work for New York City Transit and our Staten Island Railway has just gotten it's first new trains in 50 years, the R211S class to replace the mid 1970s vintage R44SI class, and I can just tell at some point, one of these "well.. it worked on the old ones" excuses will come up when an issue arises.

@maestromecanico597 2 ай бұрын

@@metropod True story (on a Charger but NOT in SoFlo): We had a Charger crap out on us due to a failed level sensor. I plugged in and bypassed the sensor…and stayed in the fireman’s seat until the runs were done for the day. An electrician later asked me how to do that and I explained. He was looking for wires to jump out. Doesn’t work that way on the newest stuff.

@traingame6905 2 ай бұрын

Siemens: ALL HAIL BRIGHTLINE

@Kz002 2 ай бұрын

Amtrak: chargers not working correctly Meanwhile Boeing:

@SleepTrain456 2 ай бұрын

I found this quite an informative (and crazy) video! Now, I know that some of the Chargers work fine (the Brightline versions, and some post-2020 commuter rail ones), some malfunction (ALC-42s, Surfliner Chargers), and some are in between (the Coaster Chargers). All this is strange, since all of these locomotives have the same model of engine. I suppose, as you said, the differing levels of maintenance help. Thanks for making this!

@tonyburzio4107 2 ай бұрын

The maintenance is correct, it's the use model.

@LuisUrbieta 2 ай бұрын

@@tonyburzio4107No locomotive is perfect but what else is perfect? They I mean Amtrak needs to bring back their F59PHI locomotives & the Amfletrs.

@Pensyfan19 2 ай бұрын

Thanks for still posting this video despite the setback. I think I remember hearing that the internal components for the Brightline equipment was constructed with better contractors due to Brightline having a larger budget than Amtrak (this moreso applies to the Ventures than the Chargers), as while the Brightline Ventures run perfectly fine, the Caltrans Ventures were testing for 3-4 years before even entering service, and the Midwest Ventures initially saw problems such as lead in the sink water, doors and stairs not working, and the table magnets causing laptops to crash. Also, the Brightline Chargers are not as exposed to cold weather as much as their Amtrak counterparts. Overall, I'd like to see this video as yet another W for Brightline as they are truly the greatest railroading in the history of railroading and they're the answer to literally everything for every reason imaginable, including beating CAHSR at opening high speed rail.

@tonyburzio4107 2 ай бұрын

True for the cars, false for the engines..

@TohaBgood2 2 ай бұрын

Doesn't track. Caltrans/Amtrak California had their Chargers in operations for many years before Brightline and they worked perfectly fine.

@Huey-UH-1 2 ай бұрын

Well, the locomotives and wagons are platforms where every customer orders what they want, and at Siemens this also applies to the software. For things with the engines you don't have to go to Siemens, you have to go to Cummins. With the Diesel Vectron, which are essentially the chargers, we have no problem here with the MTU engine. I spoke to an engineer from Siemens Rail USA at Innotrans and he said that they had problems with the quality of the Cummins engines and that they would prefer to install the MTU engine, but due to the Buy Amarican act that is not possible because MTU is not Produced in the USA as I understand it. That makes sense, the Birghtline locomotives run better with only 4000 hp, there is less load on the engines. And if Siemens maintains the rolling stock, you have the advantage if something strange happens, you can call an engineer straight away and ask what the problem is with the vehicle.

@the_retag 2 ай бұрын

@@Huey-UH-1 makes sense, Siemens know how to build trains. Although Cummins isnt exactly known for being unreliable. Possibly it has to be run differently than an mtu in a non obvious way.

@Huey-UH-1 2 ай бұрын

@@the_retag Cummins definitely builds good engines, that's no question. But sometimes not every engine that was developed for one thing is also good for a larger area in the same area of application. It makes a difference whether you install the engine in a freight locomotive or a passenger locomotive. Passenger service is a much higher thermal load for the engine, always from 0 to 100% engine load and if the engine is not properly balanced for this, this leads to things like oil fires and less horsepower is good for the engine. I think that's why the ALC42 and the Brihgtline Charger are more reliable. But that is understandable when the majority of Amrekain locomotives are built for freight transport and because the engines are less stressed than in passenger transport.

@2010train1 2 ай бұрын

Don't forget Marc has SC-44 chargers

@KiIo-27 2 ай бұрын

@2010train1 shhhhhh he said commuter rail SC44 chargers are fine then not fine, MARC has been running fine and I refuse to accept that statement

@LuisUrbieta 2 ай бұрын

I conecte Snow sex time is it? Perfect like weather@@KiIo-27

@P90F55 2 ай бұрын

Its maintenance and the Brightline Chargers carry a much lighter load.

@WestPac-ny9vi 2 ай бұрын

Plus they have an engine on each end.

@P90F55 2 ай бұрын

@@WestPac-ny9vi That's exactly what I was getting at.

@Kane615 2 ай бұрын

One thing to keep in mind with the Brightline units is that they don't travel far from their maintenance base. Probably easier to keep track of issues before they become critical at Brightline and the commuter roads when the locos are stabled at the same shop every night vs Amtrak motive power that might only see a shop every few days in completely different states.

@pacificostudios 2 ай бұрын

Surfliner is really under Caltrans, hence the "Amtrak California" brand. So if the ALC-42s are running well on the long-distance network, and all the regional rail SC-44s are o.k., perhaps it's Caltrans that is underfunding engine maintenance?

@pacificostudios 2 ай бұрын

I rode the Surfliner this week and I was surprised to see another Surfliner being pulled by a P42! I thought the "Chipped Cinderblocks" were gone for ever, they must have found a running one in Los Angeles!

@DesertHighIron 2 ай бұрын

Lots of P42s on the surfliner recently. 148, 158, 50, and 39 are the ones I can think of that have ran on it recently. They still have almost the entire P42 fleet for long distance service. All 3 dash 8s, 503, 509, and 510 have all pulled trains solo as well. It’s been a rough few weeks for the Surfliner

@Chescat124 2 ай бұрын

Midwest chargers trying not to fail during the winter (Impossible)

@trailingrails9953 2 ай бұрын

Literally impossible. Seen a few P42 substitutes in the summer too.

@Chescat124 2 ай бұрын

@@trailingrails9953 I rode behind a P42 on the Pere Marquette this summer

@miaviation-railway 2 ай бұрын

Rode with those on many lengthy delayed trips on the Blue Water & Wolverine in the wintertime. So many 4+ hour delays on the evening trip eastbound sitting without power…

@thesoundoftransit 2 ай бұрын

Chargers are the GEVO’s of the passenger world.

@HalftoneCHIRailfanCommunity 2 ай бұрын

I love your comment

@allegro446 2 ай бұрын

Which from a railfans standpoint, I do not like lol

@InventorZahran 2 ай бұрын

They're both aesthetically boring, can be found literally everywhere, and have replaced a lot of older, more interesting locos.

@HalftoneCHIRailfanCommunity 2 ай бұрын

@@InventorZahran modern technology can be boring sometimes.

@IronHorsefan1869 2 ай бұрын

@@InventorZahran Chargers are Not Boring, they're much cooler looking than the piss 42s which are the REAL Bore.

@xaviersaavedra7442 2 ай бұрын

Tbh I think it’s just teething issues. Like these things been in service for 3 years some 4 years. And with alot of brand new tech or designs. Problems will come up down the road that later models will fix. Cars, ships, and planes go through teething issues as well so it’s not special to the charger.

@mikeblatzheim2797 2 ай бұрын

The Charger isn't really new tech though, as its based on the diesel version of the Vectron. The platform has been in service across Europe for over a decade and as far as I'm aware, hasn't experienced any major issues with reliability. My guess is on a combination of parts/manufacturing issues and improper maintenance.

@xaviersaavedra7442 2 ай бұрын

@@mikeblatzheim2797 yes but it’s a diesel version of an electric train that was its base. So it’s not completely brand new just something is different from the original design. So something was bound to come up at some point.

@that1niceguy246 2 ай бұрын

@@xaviersaavedra7442 Thing is the Vectron also exists as a dual mode locomotive and a diesel locomotive, so the basis is still a diesel engine. It's just that european railroads have a lot of electrification while the US lacks in that regard in some regions.

@grizeldiSLO 2 ай бұрын

@@mikeblatzheim2797 While Vectron is a proven platform, Siemens literally ran out of possible registration numbers for the electric Vectrons as there's so many of them all over Europe, while there are at most double digits of diesel only Vectrons out there. The platform is proven, but the diesel version not so much.

@LoganisTrainBoy1 2 ай бұрын

Nope. The oldest SC44’s are going on 7 years old and they’re still going down at unreasonable rates. Brand new business and cafe class venture cars are going into service and still have leaking roofs, bad door seals, stair issues, etc. The F125’s had bad teething issues that were sorted out after about 3 years. What is still happening with Siemens is unacceptable. Idk why Amtrak hasn’t sued them yet. I don’t know why they bought the equipment in the first place. Anybody with a brain should have started questioning it when they tried to operate the car and discovered they needed three separate keys between the step traps, the doors, and the PA box/electrical cabinet.

@ShluffyMonster 2 ай бұрын

I'll say out here in NJ our alp-45s won't work if they think the engine has a problem, even if it doesn't. I think this is more of a new safety thing than something charger specific.

@kbtr234 2 ай бұрын

Buy more rebuilt GP40P engines is the answer. These Chargers have "trucking" engines in them, not locomotive engines.

@elevatorcentral Ай бұрын

Alot of the issues with these can be tied to the problems the trucking industry has been dealing with the p42s engines are pretty much tanks if u dont abuse them the chargers like every diesel made after 2017 is required to use DEF to meet Tier 4 this is basically chemically made piss (urea and water) this is sprayed into the exhaust to renew the catalyst to reduce emmisions somehow remember how its made with water and water freezes yes these under winter certain conditions the heaters could not maintain the DEF from freezing or the heaters would crap out and when it froze by law Cummins was forced to design the prime mover to shut down into limp mode ( likely idle speed) the DEF quality sensors are known to fail often or the injectors mess up causing the computer to put it into limp as for it happening on certain years and not others im sure they chose a different supplier or newer part bright line does stuff in house so if a train craps out they likely have alot of spare parts to get it back before anyone notices it missing and thinks its just in for a PM vs amtrak well its amtrak and cummins engines siemens chargers are just ripe for beating it

@buildintotrains 2 ай бұрын

this was highly entertaining

@foalymohre8501 2 ай бұрын

thats pretty funny. I really like to learn some thinks about the Siemens problems in the USA. here in Germany, we have the Siemens Vectron, a great locomotive. Its works really good, no problems at all. In that case, I think its a problem with the maintenance. I hope you guys solve the problem ^^

@itsdad0c 2 ай бұрын

engine issues seem to be a bit of a recurring thing for the chargers cause cascades wdtx 1405 had an engine explosion too. that took her out of service for bout 11 months i think

@Santiago-lb5md 2 ай бұрын

The thing is that every batch of trains sold to operators are diferent batches that have different things that makes them better or worse, that could explain why the reliability changes so much between models

@baconmcbacon62 Ай бұрын

They’re German machinery. You gotta maintain them like German machinery!

@amtrak713productions8 2 ай бұрын

I work as an Amtrak machinist and just to say ive heard nothing good about the chargers im not looking forward to transitioning from the p42s to them

@Charger_84 Ай бұрын

Knowing MARC a lot ive noticed that their chargers are like 50/50. Like theres days were they are used on all lined then theres days where they are only used on the penn line. And from what I've heard, reliability is okay but not great. Also heard they wheel slip a lot and dont pull like the MP36s. Although i disagree after ridding multiple trains i feel like the Chargers accelerate quicker.

@Token_Nerd 2 ай бұрын

My guess is actually the weather. The Brightline sets just never had to deal with winter weather.

@petere4540 2 ай бұрын

I'm in Canada and the via chargers are like brightline chargers, don't seem to work very well at all

@FoolishFoamerRailfanner 2 ай бұрын

As a Brightline fan, I can recommend this.

@GamingRailfanner 2 ай бұрын

Amtrak being broke moment

@JPBX904 22 күн бұрын

you can hear the insanity in his voice lol

@IronHorsefan1869 2 ай бұрын

The Cascades Chargers are another batch of chargers built pre 2020 but work fine

@trainglen22 2 ай бұрын

Via also owns Chargers. They had one that completely went down.

@TheRandCrews 2 ай бұрын

when and which one?

@trainglen22 2 ай бұрын

It happened on Labour Day weekend. The train broke down between Drummondville and Quebec city.

@crazyrailfan 2 ай бұрын

Yep, heard some of the problems for a while, but never heard of the other problems.

@HudsonLineProuductions-6117 2 ай бұрын

He started hating a lil bit💀💀💀💀

@jmrgg3669 2 ай бұрын

Could've gotten some P42s in the Surf Line by now.

@SleepTrain456 2 ай бұрын

I myself saw a P42, Amtrak 39, lead a Surfliner on October 9!

@DesertHighIron 2 ай бұрын

There’s been 4 P42s on surfline total since the beginning of September. 148, 158, 50, and 39

@jmrgg3669 2 ай бұрын

@@DesertHighIron 148, 50, & 39: Decent. 158: Its fouled Raised Letter K5L? 👍 Nice.

@IronHorsefan1869 2 ай бұрын

Nah, only if they're pase 7 would be interested in seeing that f**k phase V!!

@jmrgg3669 2 ай бұрын

@@IronHorsefan1869 Well you're not wrong, but I prefer the simple Phase V if it were back in time. But 7 is going very well now that even those P32 - Dash 8s could receive that paint as well.

@zenontrainstrucks9433 2 ай бұрын

One of ACE's chargers has a long term PTC issuse, so it is sidelined.

@someguyontheinternet5716 2 ай бұрын

You’ve been working on this video longer than I’ve been working in the factory making the engines for the chargers you poor poor soul, I am so sorry.

@unnameduser06 2 ай бұрын

bro mad and speak fax over “Chargers” 💀💯🔥

@artoismta 2 ай бұрын

So wait, the locomotive straight up refused service at the drop of a hat? 😂

@tsguy-h3q 2 ай бұрын

Brokey McBroke Face is the best description of Amtrak I've heard.

@tyityiwalker 2 ай бұрын

9:48 damn 500 you don’t have to crash out like this

@ryanspies6170 2 ай бұрын

We can't let this VIA slander stand.

@poultrypants 2 ай бұрын

and at 3:48

@triadrailfanproductions 2 ай бұрын

the whole video is bro crashing out 💀💀💀💀💀

@chrismullinaxcm 2 ай бұрын

"Why do the Brightline ones work?" Because Florida doesn't have -20 degree temperatures.

@TheRandCrews 2 ай бұрын

why does Via Rail ones work fine? Mostly running along the frozen lakes and rivers too on the Corridor

@chrismullinaxcm 2 ай бұрын

@TheRandCrews different software and they were released after the ALC-42s were tweaked.

@Ghfvhvfg 2 ай бұрын

All i can complain about some wonky electrical eqipment

@SoCalTrackside6908 2 ай бұрын

3:41 lol

@poultrypants 2 ай бұрын

he crashed out 😭

@HalftoneCHIRailfanCommunity 2 ай бұрын

Chargers have some issues, but they are still are my top favorite locomotive.

@Thenumbersthatareodd 3 күн бұрын

Broky Mcbroke face = Amtrak.

@Kearyosity 17 күн бұрын

4:23 very slightly unrelated random question: is that a Cybertruck going past in the background?

@maho_nishizumi_tigertank 6 күн бұрын

Yes, that was a Cybertruck

@anthonypecoraro5472 2 ай бұрын

The Midwest/Caltrans ones aren't owned by Amtrak. They're state owned.

@bramyoi1124 Ай бұрын

what is the best ? siemens charger, alstom alp 45a dp, emd f125, hsp 46, mp54ac ?

@TheAmtrakSpartan 2 ай бұрын

6:02 2114’s screen says “Destination 24”

@tdginc 2 ай бұрын

Honey wake up 5008 just posted

@YaboyMX595 2 ай бұрын

I’m gonna be completely honest I don’t like the chargers for one specific reason. And I know Amtrakguy365 did this in a video so I’m gonna use it from him. Now with that out of the way my problem won’t be chargers is the air intake on the bottom. And with that on the bottom it sucks up the leaves, rain, and snow and it gets into the compartment and short circuits itself and starts breaking down. Which leads Amtrak to start using the P42’s more often than usual even though they are supposed to replace them as of this year. And with that problem the engines don’t work nor run as often as Amtrak try to intend on the Midwest services, silver star/meteor, etc. That’s my only reason I dislike the chargers

@yellowpirateman2468 2 ай бұрын

The Brightline chargers are very different under the hood than all amtrak models. Most commuter rails have the brightline version of the chargers, while amtrak has their own unique design. Same with the ventures. The brightline ventures are the exact design that siemens developed when pitching the cars to North American rail companies. The Amtrak ventures were specially customized for amtrak, and are very different mechanically than the original design/brightlines. All amtrak cars were specially designed based upon amtrak's requests. The VIA ventures and chargers are also the original design. Also, the FRA has found issues with all Amtrak California Venture Cabcars, so most if not all are sidelined, again.

@TohaBgood2 2 ай бұрын

Lol, no. Siemens doesn't do custom, at all. All the models are as near identical as Siemens can physically make them. It's like their corporate religion that they never do anything custom. And if the customer doesn't like that then the Siemens rep himself will hand them the Stadler brochure and semi-gently push them out of their office.

@blose774 2 ай бұрын

Oh hail the siemenns chargers!

@anitrain 2 ай бұрын

So do you think Metrolink was smart to order the F125s? Should others do the same?

@John_1v1_goated 2 ай бұрын

At cbv i had to wait for a 1hr and 10min just to catch P42DC 33

@GRFP6903 2 ай бұрын

Bruh that’s not a long time

@John_1v1_goated 2 ай бұрын

@@GRFP6903 ik but i was raining a bit

@KydenWolf 2 ай бұрын

Where does Canada's fall in all of this. They seem perfect as well

@lucaslawless4291 2 ай бұрын

Has Cascades been having problems with their Chargers at all? I live in the PNW and know several people who use Cascades regularly and have heard zilch about mechanical issues on our locos

@R262SubwayCar1 2 ай бұрын

I Never heard of the Cascades Chargers having issues

@nickdrake527 Ай бұрын

The Brightline Chargers are the best. But I'm biased. #gobrightline

@daviano_R.T. 2 ай бұрын

So the conclusion is Amtrak maintenance staff is incompetent or just lazy? I mean from that much of train operator having similar engine but only Amtrak that seems always have a problem😅

@04Delta 2 ай бұрын

Just watched another video on Chargers. Apparently Charger is more of a platform, than a model of locomotive itself. So basically you start with a platform and then you change the specs based on your needs as a train operator, which Siemens provides. So it might have to do with that and can also explain why some Chargers work fine, but that's something that will require a more in-depth review for sure.

@tonyburzio4107 2 ай бұрын

Nope, the motors are the same, it's the way you use them. The start/stop air pollution control system is bad juju.

@Alawo- 2 ай бұрын

Bro geekin and tweekin because of the chargers😭🙏

@leecornwell5632 15 күн бұрын

@@Alawo- These chargers are nice

@Amrep335 2 ай бұрын

3:52 bros had it

@poultrypants 2 ай бұрын

he crashed out 😭

@ThatYoungFarmerAndRailfan 2 ай бұрын

I think the problem ones are Friday specials

@BettyAcheampongthirdchannel 2 ай бұрын

This is why Amtrak having chargers is a bad idea. not only that they have so many freezing and water issues. And also to have an unreliable service start I would rather choose a p42dc over a charger.