6 Gain Staging Mistakes That Everyone Makes (Are You?) | musicianonamission.com - Mix School #31

Access your Free Gain Staging DAW Templates here: www.musicianon...
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01:18 - Mistake #1
06:44 - Mistake #2
06:55 - Mistake #3
07:31 - Mistake #4
08:09 - Mistake #5
08:45 - Mistake #6
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(Logic Pro X, Pro Tools, Cubase and Studio One)
There is a plugin in every DAW that seems useless, but is actually essential. Without it, your mixes might sound like this.
That plugin is the gain plugin. Gain staging is commonly misunderstood, so in this video I'm going to reveal 6 gain staging mistakes that everyone makes. Because if you want to make music that sounds professional, you absolutely need to get this right.
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More info on gain staging here: www.musicianon...
Don't have a DAW yet? Pick one here: www.musicianon...

[@masteringcom]

Which mistake have you made? Leave a comment!

[@ezraexan97]

I was just overthinking the -18db rule smh, and also I'm so glad you went over the gain staging on the mix bus! Thank You!!! One question, should I gain stage on the master track, or Mix bus? Because I usually send my tracks to Landr?

[@joshuaruiz1013]

Awesome video. You’re right every video ive watched seems to suggest 18 DBFS and it got embedded into my head. Its nice that you explained things im detail.

[@jameslove2108]

That was a superb video and tutorial including not one but two musicians on a mission. Nice job playing your twin. You should know when I put in my email to download the templates and hit send it took me to a page which saidbucket.io Ooops. The Requested URL was not found on this server. 500 | bucket.io I guess nobody's perfect but your tutorials have been pretty darn close if not perfection itself. Thanks

[@DeAdler_13]

Just record at +20db to save a plugin slot, cause I already got that distortion Louder sounds better and I am the best, that's why I usually gain as much as possible But now you teached me to just turn down the volume on my monitors if it gets to loud Thanks for that! :)

[@lujidgi]

i was keeping faders very low but felt something isnt right... had no idea about gain staging concept at all! thank you :)

[@AtteKym]

0:10 15-year-old me working on banger track in FL studio

[@denverlightinganddjservice9101]

hahahahahahahahahaha

[@romeoangelo3865]

Haha If you want to hear someone work before they learned all the proper techniques then check out this artists work. He posts his music and vocals as he gets better with all this. He uses all stock and uses earphones as a mic lol kzbin.info/www/bejne/mZi5m2ifm8-KbKc

[@VaughtyOfficial]

I've been producing for years and I must say that this is the clearest and best explanation regarding gain staging I have ever come across!! Another top tutorial!! Cheers Rob!!

[@masteringcom]

Thanks! Glad you found it useful!

[@computerjantje]

I agree

[@mgmthegrand]

Yeah, this actually clarified a number of minor issues that I still had with gain-staging but couldn't really get specific answers to. Excellent for intermediaries and beginners.

[@estudiohurricane666]

The worst mistake is use your eyes and not your ears

[@Caardiboi]

Yeah, after I heard that I was like o.O we’re enginears. We must be able to hear every move we make in our editing and mixing

[@musician1971a]

Mix with your ears, gain stage with your eyes. Have you not been paying attention?

[@musician1971a]

@@AzathothsAlarmClock exactly!

[@elseels1557]

Yah, I actually mix with my eyes closed, I use a reader designed for the visually impaired. I'm that hardcore. I also practice by catching flies with chopsticks with my eyes closed, I just use my ears.

[@bboymac84]

Els eels you need your eyes and ears

[@ricc333]

low fader syndome used to be a habit

[@mathekakivevo4222]

low fader syndrome up to now, I should pull up men

[@ProperJohnmusic]

I made every single one of these mistakes this week lol. Do a Mistakes video on Reverb.

[@TheNoiseFloorav]

"as long as you're not hitting zero on any of your channels it's fine"...except you can't clip your channels in the box. That only applies to channels being sent directly to a d/a converter. "Just by importing the tracks we're clipping by 13 decibels". Yup. And you can put one gain plugin on the master channel as the first insert and remedy that by turning that gain plugin down -13 decibels. I see that you eventually did add a gain plugin to the master channel, but you could've saved a lot of time by simply doing that from the start and not worrying about the individual channels clipping. They only matter if you're working hybrid, which you don't appear to be doing. In the box, you cannot clip your channels in a modern DAW. That's been the case for at least 7 years, probably longer. Analog modeling plugins don't have a -18dbfs sweet spot. This is a common misconception. Some developers use -14dbfs to equal 0dbvu, while others use -20dbfs to equal 0dbvu. So if you're going to target a certain calibrated level, you'd better know what that is for the plugin you're using. But even that is too tedious. What we're trying to accomplish is a healthy signal to noise ratio without adding obvious saturation and distortion. This is why I grab the input gain control on any non-linear plugins and experiment with different input levels until it gives me the sound I want. Often before it breaks up into obvious distortion, it becomes full and rich. There's a sweet spot, but it's different for every source and you can only find it by experimenting with the input levels and treating the analog modeling plugins like saturation units. Calibrating to -18 misses a lot of potential tonal goodness you could be getting out of them. Also, -18dbfs for amp simulators is way too quiet. The amp sims that have automatic input gain (TSE X-50, the new Waves PRS models) tend to automatically adjust the input gain to be a lot higher, typically around -4dbfs. "Obsessing over gain staging, it should only take 2-3 minutes at the beginning". I agree, but only if you're working hybrid like I do. If you're not working hybrid, and are staying 100% in the box the entire mix, then you really only need to worry about not clipping your master channel's output. That's it. And in that case, we have a master fader as a fader for a reason. If it's clipping, turn it down. Done. (Won't work in pro tools since the master fader adjusts the level being fed into the master effects chain, so use a gain plugin on the master channel instead). "Mistake #3, clipping on the busses." - already covered that, you can't clip the busses. The red light is going off to alert you if you'd be clipping had the bus been sent to an analog output, like to an outboard compressor, because the converter has a ceiling and you need to avoid clipping it. If you're completely in the box, you can't clip the channels or the busses. You just can't. It won't happen. You're free to ignore the clipping lights. "Just add a gain plugin to the group", I wouldn't because you might mess up the saturation character of the console emulations you're using. Just ignore the clipping lights. "Not level matching plugins". With ya there, at least while someone's learning. It's good practice to level match by ear, not with a meter, then a/b to hear if it's actually helping or hurting. But once you've trained your ears, this becomes not that important to do. "You might be tempted to get Waves's new Level plugin" (Mv2 isn't new, and is a parallel compressor not a gain utility) "Or there's a vu meter out there you want to get" (shows a free vu meter plugin on screen). You're right, you don't need it, because gain staging happens at tracking. Make sure you've recorded with proper levels, and a healthy signal to noise ratio, and you're set for mixing in the box because of the completely linear nature of a floating point 32bit mixing engine. That said, if you're working hybrid, Hornet's VU Meter is well worth the $5 because you can group all your channels together and calibrate them super fast. I use REAPER's built in custom actions for this, but Hornet's VU is a real godsend for people working hybrid that don't have REAPER. Spend money on workflow enhancements. Sometimes that involves spending money on metering. Your channel meters are only designed to give you one thing, so you can't compare the Logic peak meter with a VU meter. Both have uses. "Fader resolution" doesn't have anything to do with the gain structure of the audio passing through the channel. Some DAW's have a completely linear fader behavior, others behave more like consoles. But fader resolution is the last thing I'd ever worry about when mixing. If I've turned the fader down -25db, it's because that's where the track sat correctly in the balance of the tracks. I'm not worried about fader resolution, and I'm not going to make sure my faders are set to zero after I've done my initial mix. The faders were designed to be moved, so use them. I have a gain staging video on my channel titled "Gain Staging: What to know, and why you shouldn't stress too much about it". Come check it out. Not trying to crap on anyone's video, you put a lot of time into this and you did a great job on the presentation. It's not your fault if you've been taught the same half truths that everyone else learns, you taught what you'd been taught. It's just largely outdated now.

[@michaelleitner4334]

Hello, I`ve watched the Video u mentioned in ur post, it`s very interresting, but what`s about virtual instruments? With Synts, Drums etc. For example i have the Superior Drummer 3 and i pick up a mixed Kit, so i have already the volume that goes to the Stereo bus, without puting on a lot of other plugins, whats the right meter Level in These case? Or if i have a Synth where i have to put a compressor on or a distortion, whats the right Level there? And where i Level the gain? On the Output Volume of the VST Instrument or in the channel bevor the Instrument?thanks

[@TheNoiseFloorav]

Virtual instruments go out to the same internal floating point linear mixing system as audio tracks, and therefore have the same rules about infinite headroom as audio tracks. If you're clipping on the virtual instrument channel, but that channel is not feeding an analog output directly, there's nothing to worry about. Until the audio hits an actual analog conversion point, you've got nothing to worry about regarding clipping. Remember, Gain staging is nothing more than setting the APPROPRIATE input and output levels. If you're concerned about how to set the level for a source, ask yourself what you're trying to accomplish? If you're feeding it into a compressor with a fixed threshold, does that compressor have an input control? If so, you likely have enough room with the input control to dial in the compressor. If not, you should feed it a quieter signal. I don't know of any compressors with fixed thresholds that don't have input gain controls.

[@JohnMorris-ge6hq]

I heard modern DAWs clipping all the time. Not recording hot is more important. Unless you have a reference mastering converter with crazy headroom, recording too hot will sound like crap. The analog sweet spot for 24 bit DACs is -18 dbfs. RMS (Average not peak) Only when recording. Every DAC has an analog preamp in it. The 24 bit converter is designed to sound it's best at -18 dbfs RMS. This is 0VU for 24 bit. In the U.k. it - 20 dbfs RMS. Sorry, this a pro industry standard. We have too many clients smashing their converters. And it sounds like crap. There is headroom and there is usable headroom. They are smashing them as if it's 1986 and they are using a Sony 1610.

[@TheNoiseFloorav]

John Morris you only hear clipping at d/a conversion points. You can’t clip your individual channels unless it’s feeding a converter directly.

[@TheNoiseFloorav]

Assai well, not “all” of them are useless😉mine got it right. Come watch.

[@TheBlashMusic]

You realize, logic mixer Channels have +64 db of headroom, right? The only channel that "clips" above 0 db is the master channel. You can have all of your mixer channels peak above 0 DB and it won't effect the sound AT ALL unless your master is above 0.

[@romeoangelo3865]

If you want to hear someone work before they learned all the proper techniques then check out this artists work. He posts his music and vocals as he gets better with all this. He uses all stock and uses earphones as a mic lol kzbin.info/www/bejne/mZi5m2ifm8-KbKc

[@lushmusicproductions8040]

05:30 I wouldn't say merely putting a gain reduction on master to avoid clipping is a good idea. Surely more gain staging would be beneficial to achieve that organically (-6db). Which leaves actual headroom!

[@rareaudiobooks_]

I'm not familiar with logic, but you should never overload a channel and then "fix" it with a plug-in after it's over-loaded. Is this a joke tutorial?

[@anttisaarimusic]

More gain reduction in the single tracks would leave your analog modeling plugins on the tracks with way too little gain to do what they were actually designed to do. The clipping on the master, like they said in the video, is digital so fixing it on the spot makes no difference, does it?

[@tomszymusic]

@@rareaudiobooks_ I got this point in the video and thought the exact same thing. I'm not an expert on the subject but I'm pretty sure all he is doing is turning down an already distorted signal so that the Distortion is not present on the meter...but it's still present in the signal

[@tomszymusic]

@@anttisaarimusic if you're worried about hitting your analog model plug-ins at the appropriate level, just hit them at -18 or whatever you're supposed to hit them at to get the desired effect. And then if you're still clipping on the master bus, put another gain plugin AFTER the analog model plugin to bring the signal down so that you are not clipping on your master fader. Or, a lot of analog modeled plugins already have a built-in trim for this purpose exactly. This coincides with the concept of unity gain, so that you're roughly going in and out of a chain of plug-ins at approximately the same level for each one so you're not just adding gobs of gain for each EQ or compressor

[@digitaalikaali]

By default, Logic does summing using double-precision floating point arithmetic. Just for the heck of it, I tried cranking a test sine wave up as far as possible. I got it to +120 dB (and back) without any clipping. Verified using an oscillator and a harmonic analyzer. In other words, gain reduction on the master bus works really really well. All modern plugins also use floating point arithmetic. (Not doing so would just make the programmer's life harder for no reason at all.) They don't really care about the 0dB limit either. Just adjust the input/output gains and any internal thresholds to your liking and you're golden. The whole concept of "headroom" is only meaningful when hitting an interface of some sorts, i.e. when coming from, going to, or doing processing in the analog domain. Voltage levels have hard limits; numbers do not.

[@NickHolum]

Not sure I can subscribe to using the gain plug in the master bus... or any bus for that matter. Get the channels staged the way you want them, then use the faders to stage your busses. Jmo.

[@Plastixxx]

Plus imho it would be easier and safer to get your stereo and mono gain plugs, add/clone them to all the channels with the same volume duck level, that way you won't screw with the dynamics when you start compressing/taping during mastering ... and bonus is if you are doing a mixdown for someone else's track then you will spare yourself the 'oh this sounds a little lower/higher then i recorded it' remark ... and they will be right ... if its needed to amend volumes of the stems during mixdown artist would tell ya or you check if they are ok with it :) ...

[@eccentricworx]

i agree - don‘t forget, there‘s also a difference between pre- & post-fader...

[@giovannifranzetti6214]

Exactly on point. Even if summing happens through a floating point bitdepth alghorithm, you wouldn’t prefer fixing it after fader. This mistake kind of defeat the point of the video, even if the remaining suggestions he gives are accurate. So I guess a thumb up and one down for him.

[@RobBecCCP]

Nick Holum Bro, I literally stopped watching the video when he started using gain plug on the channels instead of the faders to look for THIS comment!!! And it didn’t take long to find it. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@denverlightinganddjservice9101]

@@RobBecCCP SAME I'm so confused rn

[@ryanperrault8174]

Thanks for making this. I haven't made music in like 7-8 years so I'd forgotten a lot of stuff and just watching videos like this helps me realize mistakes I was making in the past that I can avoid now once I start again....Solid video and straight to the point.

[@romeoangelo3865]

If you want to hear someone work before they learned all the proper techniques then check out this artists work. He posts his music and vocals as he gets better with all this. He uses all stock and uses earphones as a mic lol kzbin.info/www/bejne/mZi5m2ifm8-KbKc

[@DrJoshGuitar]

One of the things I like to do is change all my metering to pre fader (there is an option for this in Logic) - that way you can see what is really going on. If your master is clipping pre-fader, than you need to turn down your individual tracks more rather than using a gain plugin on your master.

[@masteringcom]

Good tip!

[@sonidojamon]

better tip indeed than the proper video...

[@miroslaw7]

In my opinion applying a gain plugging on a master bus does not solve your problem with clipping. It just attenuated exactly the same (still clipping ) sound as gain plugin does not change the sound but simply changes the level of whatever is incoming (bad or good). Therefore we need to make sure the master bus does not clip in the first place, before we put any plugging on the master.

[@Bangulo]

@@miroslaw7 Thats what i was thinking as well. Kind throws this dudes credibility out the window when he said that. Stopped watching and looked for this comment.

[@reggie1319]

@@Bangulo yeah that was questionable

[@-IYN-]

-18dB fs (full scale - digital domain) is only a reference point for the VU - Volume Unit (or RMS - Root Mean Square in the Digital world) -18dB fs gives us some necessary headroom so we can raise the signal with EQ, Compressors, Amp-sims, etc. till we reach max. -12dBfs to the very max. of -10dBfs (over-compressed """modern""" = ridiculously pumped mix known as Loudness War), final mixes should end up at around -18dBfs RMS or at a very max. of -12dBfs RMS. -6dB fs is only a reference point for the PEAKS (which in Digital world are very important, whilst in Analogue they get 'saturated' = compressed to what we call 'warmth' or 'tape saturation') -6dB fs gives us some necessary headroom so we got the TRUE PEAKS covered as well! In Digital world this is very important as more often PEAKS (of discrete samples) may not clip, but the TRUE PEAKS (over-sampling internally by plugins, sample conversions, etc.) might clip if Normalisation has been applied to -0dBfs (no headroom for True Peaks)! *Recently Spotify™ made a 'standard' for their Audio Stream to be -14dBfs RMS (volume unit or LUfs = Loudness Unit full scale) with -1dBfs TP (true peak).

[@SocietateaAscendenta]

Oh, man.. When I tought that I was finally starting to understand mixing... Why did I not choose painting or photoshop...?? WHY?? What I do not understand, and may I ask you folks, WHY IS HE USING a plugin to lower the DB and NOT use the faders? Why do we then use a mixer (that Thing with faders) then? Is it because he set his Audio post-faders, or what?

[@SocietateaAscendenta]

Cool. All of Audio Messiahs say 3 words and do not explain nothing.

[@kieranshevlin5034]

Thank you for your comment. If a virtual instrument doesn't get its signal raised by an effect , should it's volume better be around -18dbfs or -12dbfs ?

[@SoItWouldBe]

@@SocietateaAscendenta that is just by choice, depending on the program, you can't really see what kind of gain reduction you are actually doing when lowering your faders, with the plug in you can have an exact number of gain reduction you are trying to get to

[@stephenpenn9776]

Red Yhem I was wondering about this? Am not sure if am correct but I have be disabling the VST affect and in just running a dry signal. Then I adjust the gain!

[@AkhileshKumar-fk3od]

I really can't understand the difference between changing the volume through faders, changing the volume at source (VST) and changing the volume through a gain tool. Can you guys please help??

[@jonowirion]

watch the video lots!

[@jonowirion]

basically it's turning volume down 'before' it hits the fader. Turning volume down at fader doesnt change the initial amount of gain thts why you need to either record at a corect level or adjust it lower with a gain pugin or pre gain fader.

[@lunakid12]

@@jonowirion ​ @Jono Davies I don't see how that answers it, because the question assumes (as do I) that at this stage we're interested in the channel outputs _after_ fader anyway. Or if we aren't, the real question is: why? _(Remember: we're here to learn, so we may not know everything already. And there's nothing in the video about this aspect, so if you watch it "lots", it will still not help. Note, there's one related hint: not to have the faders way too low, to retain resolution. But in practice you hardly ever have them so low that you can't just very much pull them wherever you want by hand, especially as we are talking about eyeballing here. So, except for pathological cases, the question seems to still be open.)_

[@JPhantha]

@@lunakid12 If you use the fader to gain stage then you may run into a problem where when you begin to mix, you may have a fader that's already really low and a small change in the fader will result in a large change in sound. Doing gain staging like the video suggests makes it so your faders all start at 0 and gives you maximum control when mixing.

[@Hugoknots]

say you have a compressor on your plugin chain for a given track, the amount of input before the compressor affects how the compressor will work. Then later when mixing you find that the track is too loud. IF you lower that tracks gain through the fader you will completely change how the compressor and other plugins on your chain are working. You want to keep the input to your compressor the same, so you would need a gain plugin to lower DB's after the compressor. IF you lower the fader, you lower the input to your plugins which affects how saturation, compressors , and other plugins work. Use pre fader metering to see your tracks original input, adjust the gain there to a healthy level (-6db ish apparently) and start adding plugins while maintaining a roughly same input. make sense?

[@xXCashMoniezXx]

I don't understand a couple things: 1. Why bounce all tracks to a new project? Why not mix in the same project as you recorded into? 2. What is the difference between using the gain plugin to control levels vs. using the fader on each track? Do the fader and the gain staging plugin control different things? Any help would be greatly appreciated, thanks

[@PhatBoiiBeats]

I think 1. If youre working on other artists stuff you would need the stems from them (obviously they might use a different DAW and sending stems is general practice) i make my own music as well and when i mix my own stuff i mix within the project itself as im sure most people do. 2. I think the explanation for this is at 8:58 ish ( the closer you get to the bottom of the fader the less resolution there is so minor changes to the fader closer to the bottom will make greater changes than if the fader is close to 0. Just my 2cents but if anyone has a more in depth explanation I would appreciate it also. Cheers

[@xXCashMoniezXx]

@@PhatBoiiBeats Thank you!

[@daniellee9196]

Holy cow! I learned so much thank u! I used to (attempt) mixing using just the faders, and had no idea about gain staging wow

[@baymax001]

I'm very guilty of watching the daw and not hearing the speaker 😢

[@r1chm]

I am not quite sure what you are saying in the gain staging for recording, you are not doing the same as in the past? If I record and old analog synth, you record as close to 0db as you can without going over and clipping. But if your analog pre amp is cheap, I would agree that pushing it closer to 0 will make it sound worse. But gain staging in the digital realm, it is my understanding it does not matter if the channel turns read or not or even if the bus hits red. (there is an exception). I believe all daws are minimum 32bit floating point internal processing, there is no way you can practically you can run out of range 1600db. I use FL Studio, the manual says this. www.image-line.com/support/flstudio_online_manual/html/mixer_levelsandmixing.htm The manual states in the Using FL Studio Peak Meters section "However, not all signals over 0 dB are bad. Audio inside FL Studio is digital, and is (at least) represented as 32-Bit floating point numbers. As with all digital audio formats, the number gets bigger as the signal gets louder. Crucially, 32 bit numbers can represent a maximum value that is about 65,000 times greater than a 16 Bit audio CD or .mp3. In other words, a dynamic range over 1600 dB. This is why internal audio, carried on the insert mixer tracks, is not going to run out of headroom under any practical circumstance, and why you should not obsess if they peak over 0 dB." It would be nice if you could respond to this and your feeling and observations. The exception I was talking about is some plugins cannot handle over driving their input stage. My experience when using these type of plug ins is that they will not allow overdriving them. Some analog modeling and some saturation plug ins have this issue and I think it depends on how they ere programed. I noticed in your example of clipping, you were clipping the stereo out channel. I assume that goes to your digital to analog converter,.. basically your sound card. Absolutly, if you over drive this, you will get distortion because it is limited by the dynamic range specification of the cards output, but I am talking about instrument/sample channels and buss mix channels, all of the internal stuff. This is true about Logic Pro X, quoting another article " Clipping when mixing in Logic X is not as straightforward as a "clipping" or "not clipping". Darren Burgos uncovers how Logic X's 32-bit floating point engine deals with clipping. Unlike an analog mixer, digital mixers and many DAWs like Logic Pro X have volume headroom/ceilings internally that are virtually impossible to clip. They work in what is called 32-bit Floating Point. In Logic X, you may have noticed that when a single channel “clips”, its peak indicator lights up orange now instead of red like in Logic 9. This is Apple’s subtle way of showing you that the channel is not really clipping, but is definitely over the zero dB point." It would be nice to have a response from you on this

[@tanelehala6422]

Exactly my thoughts (and more)! No response tho :(

[@tanelehala6422]

I read most analog simulation plugins might sound best at around -18 dB VU (not dBfs) tho

[@tanelehala6422]

Where gain staging in a DAW becomes practical is the convenient displaying of WAVEFORMS. Using Reaper's Volume (Pre-FX) or I guess it was "clip volume" on Sony Vegas (differently adjusted clips can be crossfaded then), u can make all the waveforms look more or less the same size so u don't have to constantly zoom the waveform in and out vertically to see what's going on on different tracks, especially if there are loads of em

[@streetlogic]

this is why i love cubase evey single channel already has a pre EQ and Pre Gain knob dont even need to add 1 plugin.

[@ubu-ibme]

Thank you so much, Rob! You have excellent tutorials. My mixing has improved substantially after implementing the techniques you've shown. Biggest gain staging mistakes are easily #1 and #3.

[@simonsandoz9023]

Always learned that we have to down all faders about -5 to - 8 DB for the purpose of not clipping the master fader when we start a mix session. Using gain reduction on the master fader doesn't mean to volume down a already cliping signal?

[@alexvijlbrief]

This was my biggest mistake before allways clipping and then not knowing about inputlevels for plugins..so much fun mixing ;)

[@rmkbsounds]

THIS VID SMACK MY HEAD WITH HAMMER. I thought I know all of gainstaging after look at this, I find out I don't know anything. thx for video.

[@skaftunmusic]

Thanks for the tips! You can also go through the mix with pre-faders, and if you use a software instrument you can level the gain there. Make sure that’s not so loud volume on the plugin that you will turn your fader far down in the mix.

[@romaindupont7367]

Hi, for the dudes out there that are worrying about gain staging, let's precise things a little bit. What is said in this video will remain TRUE, but some things are (in my opinion) not quite well explained. So about the -18dBfs sweet spot that should be reached at the recording stage and pretty much maintained throughout the whole production and mixing process, DON'T FORGET that we talk about AVERAGE LEVELS here. And obviously NOT peak levels. So YES, when you decide to start the mixing process after being sent a whole session that was recorded by another guy - that appears to like digital clipping on the way in - you always HAVE TO start with some basic levelling tools like gain, trim, etc... BUT, setting all the tracks around -18dBfs PROPERLY, CANNOT be achieved by looking at a peak meter. Because Peak measurements appears to visually "mimic" what the audio waveform really is, dynamic and level wise. So the reality is that we dont perceive levels (loudness if you will) this way. To look at something that shows the sound more closely to the way it actually sounds YOU NEED to use and average meter. Meaning RMS meter or VU meter. This way, YOU CAN align ALL THE TRACKS at -18dBfs AVERAGE (not peak) and actually have a good balance between stuffs. If you need an exemple of what I'm laking about, lets go record both an electric distorted guitare and a cajon. Align them at any dBfs value with a peak meter. Then do the same thing using an average meter and then compare... You know... just listen and trust your ears. Cheers.

[@JohnMorris-ge6hq]

Romain Dupont All true. And a warning to all: It's next to impossible judge a RMS level with peak meters. Of course even the Reaper demo has RMS metering, peak or both at the same time so this should not be a problem..

[@flowdreas5351]

This is so true. I don't know why so many KZbin channels say to use peak and never mention loudness or VU meters. Using VU meters finally fixed all my mixes!

[@djabthrash]

Great point and i used to gain stage only by looking at peaks, which was a huge mistake.

[@pauldemond4311]

Here's one reason why the -18 dBFS value exists. Complex waveforms have a peak to average ratio, commonly called the Crest Factor. Since most meters measure the average level (which corresponds to how our ears respond to volume) they miss the true peaks. Music can have Crest Factors in the 6-8 range, or roughly 16-18 dB. Since A/D and D/A converters are PEAK referenced devices, if they are not to be clipped their average / RMS input levels need to be ~-18 dBFS.

[@noahbentzen2616]

BRUH IF YOU AIN’T REDLINING YOU AIN’T HEADLINING

[@Blackain66]

Waves MV2 is not for simple gain staging but for keeping vocals with too much range in control etc

[@CreativeMindsAudio]

gain plugin is cool for between plugins, but i use clip gain for input gain instead of putting a gain plugin on the first insert, mainly because this can clip the gain plugin. also a gain plugin on the mix bus is even worse as you are clipping even more with everything combined. most DAWs go input-insert-fader/pan-output. note that the gain plugin is often super clean so you won't hear the distortion as much on an individual track, but on a BUS/master you will hear it a lot as you are just turning down the track and are losing a ton of dynamic range. I feel that the gain plugin is great when going from digital gear to analog gear within a plugin chain. The bottom fader syndrome, this doesn't apply to digital because you can hit the ctrl/cmd (in pro tools at least) and go incrementally by .1db regardless of how low the fader is. Anyway I know this video is older and I'm sure you've improved a lot (I've seen some more recent videos of yours that were good), but since this was coming up in my KZbin recommended I think it's important for others to know.

[@jizmomusic1868]

Nice video! I've definitely experienced "low fader syndrome" before. DERP! :)

[@donnas8408]

Why do you put your gain stage plugin first in the chain? I would think it would be the last plugin after eq comp etc… then a VU meter is your very last plugin? Please advise? Thank you

[@josephoakes6748]

in logic i like to pull all the faders down to -6 then adjust clip gain in the inspector on every clip until i have levels before i do anything else

[@lloyd7miller]

this is amazing ... I learned an insane amount thank you!!

[@APKBRAHHH]

Damn I did every mistake you said 🤣

[@victorbicudo1374]

#7 consolidate your tracks to desired level beforehand and save time and dsp by not filling your mixes with multiple gain plugins

[@djabthrash]

(in Reaper at least, and i guess in other DAWS like ProTools) you can change the level of the audio items/takes ("clips" in protools) directly without having to consolidate your tracks. And it will change the waveform also, which makes things neat visually.

[@francissreckofabian01]

Yeah! I was one of the Obsessors! I assumed the Gain should be the same across all tracks.

[@justinedwards9123]

The gain not faders explanation did more for me than I care to admit, I totally had fader syndrome.. always learn something new on this channel, thanks!

[@weeddiz5732]

I have the low fader syndrome, but I'm trying to cure myself! Great video

[@masteringcom]

Thanks for watching!

[@thehowlingterror]

Anyone know the background of this chap? What has he previously worked on? Where has he worked before?

[@soniasanfrancisco6006]

This is solidifying what I learned on my own just this morning! Having my kick and snare down at -18db just wasnt cutting it!

[@romeoangelo3865]

If you want to hear someone work before they learned all the proper techniques then check out this artists work. He posts his music and vocals as he gets better with all this. He uses all stock and uses earphones as a mic lol kzbin.info/www/bejne/mZi5m2ifm8-KbKc

[@KristoferProphet]

There’s gain on my channels, why do I need a plugin?

[@bernardoestrela6029]

gain plug in on the master? that's not the best option

[@NoiseBoulderRecords]

Yeah I think the same, adding a gain plugin to actually increase db in the master bus sounds better to me, that way you still aim for a given target with more headroom, doing the contrary sounds like you actually are squishing the headroom.

[@ytnsanw]

No mention of clip gain? Pretty fundamental if you ask me. Go through the session and quickly clip gain the whole thing - takes about the same amount of time as using a gain plugin and it also saves insert slots and reduces visual clutter.

[@th6368]

"just do it with your eyeballs"

[@masteringcom]

👀

[@RandomPerson-jg5qm]

lol rookie mixing

[@DavidSmith-ne1zp]

Thanks for this valuable tutorial explaining exactly how to set this up, and what to be watching for! Essential for ALL levels of experience.

[@bwretrocords]

If i keep all my tracks on -18..,wont it sound too low.?!🤔

[@johnnybrix717]

Black and White MW he’s talking about your input signal not your fader which is output.

[@jessebodenmusic8885]

Using faders instead of pre-fader metering to adjust levels on tracks. Wont do that again.

[@jessebodenmusic8885]

Practically speaking, for me, I have much better control over my gain staging going pre-fader. Signal from effects, eq's, etc can be coming in too hot, jacking up the stereo out without me ever knowing it if I'm using faders only. The results using pre-fader metering are a better balanced recording and less stressful gain staging. All effects and eq's benefit and work better together now too. So much easier to end up with a good stereo out level this way. No expert, this is just my experience.

[@justinf5422]

Ricky Anthony It's not... This is the most odd video I've ever seen regarding pro audio. None of these things are a standard practice. Gain staging, yes absolutely. But not the way he's doing it, that's for sure.

[@7EEVEE]

Okay, cos I was wondering what the fuck was the point when there's a fader right there... I mean, I'm willing to hear that this is bad for whatever reason, but it definitely confused me as to what the difference would REALLY be.

[@epidote6020]

@@7EEVEE you can clip in the chain before the signal hits the fader, which would mean even if you pull the fader down the volume is still distorted

[@7EEVEE]

Ahh okay, I think I understand now. Depending on how you set yourself up to begin with, gain staging could feel unnecessary, but I can see it being helpful.

[@debydean]

Superb explanation! I have one question in mind. In the case of the percussion part that is just really low in the mix, in order to set the fader around 0dB, the meter of the channel gain does not have to be around -18dBFS, right?

[@MrGarylick]

My biggest mistake was overloading the channel and plugins and wondering why it sounded bad. I didn't realise until I loaded up a saturator by klanghelm and wondered why the needle on the input went to red instantly. My biggest lesson was to realise that my amp actually has a volume control which can be turned up lol. Another lesson was with reference tracks. Realising that the level or gain has to be adjust to roughly the same level as my mix or else I end up driving the mix too hot. Brilliant advice.

[@masteringcom]

All very important observations! Thanks for watching.

[@phillyjoe148]

Make sure you're using pre fader metering otherwise you won't see what effect your plugins have on the gain. My first mistake many many moons ago :0)

[@unphazd5137]

I am a reformed low fader. Thank you so much!

[@carminbhe1592]

Damn that pic got me tho 🤣🤣

[@andyboulton2651]

Hi Rob, just remixed a track I'm working on with your template and advice! Awesome mate it's transformed the punch and clarity like I would never have believed!!!! More thanks than I can put into words . . . . Godbless and Peace.

[@masteringcom]

Thanks Andy! Glad it helped!

[@JosephAlanMeador]

Positively valuable info, thank you! Glad this was recommended on my feed. Subbed

[@masteringcom]

So glad we could help!

[@alessandrosummer]

I would have said not to obsess over level matching, if it sounds good and it's balanced keep it. And also I find that if the clipping is really small - about 1 db - you don't hear the nastiness and the distortion. Ultimately the advice I'd give with gain staging during mixing is kinda overheard: use your ears. As for recording... yeah I agree with you, although I'd say don't record too low you can't barely see it on the screen.

[@definebeats718]

I just realized I’ve been gain staging all my instrument and 808s to -12dbs not I wonder why my 808s don’t cut thru the mix or my kick sound to weak

[@heythere6983]

so the issue was that they were all the same DBs and not varied?

[@definebeats718]

Hey There -Correct Ive Manage to Now Keep My Synths Melody chords ag -12dbs && My drums around-6dbs and under . Nothing over . Mainly To Make Em punchy EQing your drums and compression Helps . But yeah to answer your questions have em at different dbs . Mainly for drums . That’s how I do it from now on . There’s so many different way to mix . This what seems to work great for me 👍

[@heythere6983]

@@definebeats718 Yea im a songwriter and am trying to understand the whole Gain topic because I see so much different info and I havent bought my daw yet, just my monitors interface, mic etc. Is raising the db and gain the only way to raise the perceived volume of the track after its recorded? Aside from compression etc? Like I cant just raise volume on its own, its basically tied into the gain of the track? Yea some people I saw said to keep all the tracks at that same level but that sound weird I would assume after u edit and mix different tracks will top out at different db and thats okay as long as you havent gotten too high up in your DB at max.

[@l.noon_radio]

Thank you so much, I had no idea what I was doing. Now I do haha.

[@masteringcom]

Awesome!

[@dspoet1]

Kind of misleading. Not everyone one makes these mistakes. I’m just saying. Video should have been called “6 Gain Staging Mistakes to Avoid.”

[@apriljoymagic]

Mix

[@djabthrash]

07:15 how to gain stage your bus input level once your input channels are gain staged and levels are balanced BUT then it changes the level of your bus in the entire mix, so whee do you compensate for that level change ? Bus fader ? Because then you risk "low fader syndrome" and not having your fader near unity before using it for level balancing in the mix ... So maybe you add another gain plugin at the END of your bus FX chain to compensate for that level change ?

[@DavidRosario69]

Would lowering the waveform itself achieve the same effect?

[@marekvoosen]

David Rosario for sure and it’s even better for a comparison later with and without the plugin chain. Cause without using a gain plugin you don’t have different volume levels. And if you still wanna use a gain plugin try hornet vu meter, it does the compensation automatically. Time saver.

[@BeccaLozierTrumpet]

this is the proper way to do this. adjust each and every waveform. that plugin is more useful for adjusting gain between plugins.

[@giulioboobzilla]

Yes. I neva used gain plugins. Pros don't need 20 plugins on 1 channel. 3 is enuff but don't obsess :-)

[@vocalead]

Yes it is, even better, just make sure you’re actually lowering the volume and not just adjusting the vertical zoom of the waveform

[@magisterwarjomaa3858]

Seconded. At least in Reaper (and other DAWs using similar principles) you'd just adjust the audio item volume knob to achieve the desired level. The waveform zoom is unrelated to the actual amplitude and is just a visual aid. But if you want to make your life more complicated you could in fact throw a gain plugin as an insert fx, as well :D

[@natanunorthodox]

Why -6 db though? Is this a preference or what? Everyone says that there is no right way to mix and master, and I usually go with my gut feeling when something is too loud or too low, but my mixes usually top out at about 0 to 2 to 3 db and it sounds fine to me on my speaker and headphones? Anybody know of any other videos like this explaining this? Or your info would be great? Thanks

[@STUIPEDCHICKEN]

sooooo... after is around -18 what do you do then?? compress to add gain to your levels??

[@feyln6176]

FUCK THIS MAKES SO MUCH SENSE!

[@TheNoiseFloorav]

This isn't correct. You can't clip your channels in the box.

[@JohnMorris-ge6hq]

The Noise Floor You can clip the master mix bus. Happens to me all the time.

[@TheNoiseFloorav]

John Morris correct, but not your channels. You only clip at d/a conversion points.

[@johnchase8510]

You can clip your analog modeled plugins, and just having 30-40-60 channels with a bit of "grit" can give you a strident mix.

[@GavinMcCloy]

I have a question about live audio mixing? We have these Sennheiser radio mics and on the microphones we have a pad of - 0 - 10- 20 -40 it's a switch on the actual radio microphones. My question is when gain staging from the receivers which we can turn up to number 10 and then PFL the channel to get the gain knob setting the correct position do you set the pad on the actual microphone depending on how powerful the singer is? Also how does this affect feedback? If you want less feedback do you want to put a pad on the microphones and then put the gain up on the desk? Or does it not really matter?

[@outofthinair1]

Pretty much every single mistake you listed ... Mixtool has become my go to friend ....

[@masteringcom]

Glad we could help!

[@outofthinair1]

Your videos have taught me so much and have improved my mixes 1000 % ... Thanks for all of your hard work

[@BlueTransAm83]

I mix ok, but loudness is a pain. Oddly I changed limiters, and some odd way???? I was able to somehow grab a few leaks into slight red. Sounded fine. I have no clue why?

[@Sc0tther]

Why is it important to use a gain plug-in rather than adjust the fader itself?

[@illestofdemall13]

Sc0tther The audio can clip before the fader so turning down the fader will not prevent that.

[@illestofdemall13]

Sc0tther the fader is post gain after inserts.

[@DrJoshGuitar]

The fader is last in the chain on each channel so it means the signal may end up clipping and distorted by the time it gets through your channel inserts.

[@Sc0tther]

I see, thanks very much for explaining. Though now I'm wondering, If the chain were to make the track clip, why not add a gain plug-in at the very end of the chain to bring the level back down?

[@illestofdemall13]

Sc0tther because the clipping can occur into a plugin and cause unwanted distortion. This can not be removed by turning the audio down post clipping. It must be done before the clipping occurs. Signal flow is very important in the audio's path.

[@meloniez427]

but if you turn down the gain after the compressing and eq-ing is done, wont that mess with the EQ? (sorry, a beginner here ✋🏻). won't it mess with what you originally wanted with the mix?

[@Larryriley3]

This just helped me out a lot. Everything I didnt matter I was still clipping. I use amp sims and drum sims for my tracks and could never get enough head room until I tried this thank you! I’m a rookie to recording and working in a DAW I’m glad I came across this video in my early stages.

[@Niramerica]

Larry, FYI, if you are putting an amp sim in post (i.e., recording a dry guitar signal and then placing the SIM in the DAW during the mixing stage), add a gain stage plug in AFTER the amp sim and adjust accordingly.

[@Misterholas]

32 bit Floating point summing...?! However this is good advice in general... Thanks for making the video!

[@xx.inuyasha.9363]

What’s really cool about studio one is that you don’t even have to use “mixtool” for gain anymore. They put gain knobs right next to all the faders

[@brianirving6738]

he said mix like the pros............. PROS DON'T USE GAIN PLUGINS!!!!! watch your levels from plugin to plugin, find the sweet spot of each plugin in the chain GAIN STRUCTURE WITHOUT GAIN PLUGINS!!!!!!!!!!! P.S. GET ON STUDIO ONE 4.6!!! THE LOGIC PRO X YOU'RE USING IS HALF THE PROBLEM!!!!!!

[@alcraig1]

Why wouldn't you simply select ALL the clips (stems, tracks...) and lower them by 13.5 db?

[@emiliopalazzolo894]

Amateur question, aren't you supposed to use a VU meter for this? By the way i'm doing your Udemy course, great help!

[@tronlady1]

With regard to clipping the master bus, why not just bring the channel gains down a lit bit more until the master bus isn't clipping. It doesn't seem right to me putting a gain on the master? Whatever is going to it is obviously too much?

[@nylophone5730]

Is there a reason you can't just turn up and down the fader?

[@masteringcom]

The fader changes the volume after all of your plugins. So if you're clipping going into your plugins, you're just adjusting the volume of an already clipped track. So adjusting the gain before ensures that the signal going into your plugins doesn't clip.

[@Sam_splatter]

Came here for this answer, thanks!

[@menamaged_]

If you put a gain plugin over the mix bus would that affect the sound quality or it doesn't affect the quality it just make it louder ?

[@Mindprinter]

Why are you not marking all faders and type in -10db ? That would be easier and faster Is there a reason for?

[@IAMHENDRICK]

I was def obsessing over gainstaging after I watched your video on it last year, lol! Great vid (y)

[@monicahammonds-topic2465]

How come you applied gain plugins to the tracks instead of just turning the faders down? #newmusicproducerhere

[@hadon909]

I can't believe this guy...and he consider himself a pro?? -18dBFS AVERAGE level (RMS) not Peak Level. why are you confusing people ? sweet spot for your converters (depending the brand) is from -20dBFS to -16dBFS (or higher for most crappy audio interfaces). You are targeting this level with rms levels NOT peak levels. +4dBu = 0VU = 1.23Volts = -xxdBFS(depending where your audio interface's converters are aligned at .If you check your audio interface's specs it should say something like: Maximum Input Level +22dBu .SO this is aligned at -18dBFS). These guys should be banned from the internet not just youtube.

[@LisaWalkerMusicChannel]

You said there was a free template all I found was a long video about making money via sync licensing and urging us to take your class!

[@miked5487]

Whats the difference between using a gain plugin at -10db fs and setting my fader to -10db fs?

[@ruleone1606]

The fader is post effect. So even if the fader isn't clipping it could be that a clipping signal is going through your compressor, eq, etc. Destroying your sound in the proces. Keeping your fader's as close to 0 as possible also gives you more control over the volume when needed. Hope this helps! Cheers

[@masteringcom]

Got it! ^

[@miked5487]

@@ruleone1606 I thought if you are recording in 32bit or 64bit float and using reaper plugins I don't believe clipping those plugins is going to be a problem. Maybe plugins that don't support 32/64bit float?

[@RhythmGuitarMan]

The mistake I made was to listed to the 'masterclass/sales-pitch' so that I could access the free cheat sheets... SORRY TO SOUND UNGRATEFUL but Where the *&^%$$£!! are they?

[@PedroWitzel]

Won't you be clipping anyway on your master bus if you reduce the gain, since you'll loiter the gain of an already clipped signal?

[@natanunorthodox]

What is considered clipping? In the yellow or the red? And do you mean 0 on the main volume control right?

[@GregsGuitarLessons]

Why are you adding plugins, as opposed to using the per track clip gain built into the logic inspector?

[@reppayyasper]

So when do you balance the volume of your mix? If I set every track around -18DB (not precise!) everything will be the same volume. Do I then use the faders after? The template didn't help me because it just set the gain -10 without looking at the actual dbfs of the track.

[@jojomarino7327]

Made some of these mistakes... Interesting that putting a gain plugin 1st in your effect chain can somehow correct audio that is already clipping in the arrangement page. What about audio sample that are already clipping before the reach you FX chain? Wouldn't they be clipping the input of the gain tool. IV read on the protools expert page that turning a clipped signal down in digital does not stop digital distortion. I was under the impression because of 32 bit floating point it was ok to do what you recommend but this article left me confused. "Even a relatively small bit of gain from certain plug-ins - for example, a high-pass filter - can boost peaks and transients significantly. Don’t depend on your meters to alert you to these, either. In most DAW setups, plug-in inserts occur pre-fader, so even if you keep the levels of your channel strips below clipping, distortion within a given plug-in may not show up if the level was brought back down further along the signal chain. Your ears are your most important tools. Solo each device and listen." ?

[@marcusf9009]

Is this also true for Reason? There's a Reason Studio's vid (Ryan's Tips or something) about clipping saying it doesn't matter what the channels say only the final Master channel, and even that can go right up to 0db in mastering because a Maximizer will stop it going over... I find it all very confusing: can't keep track of what level to record at vs prep mix vs volume mix vs master so any help from anyone much appreciated!

[@Rio-uv1gs]

All I want to know and nobody seems to have the answer is, do you gainstage before you add effect plugins or after effect plugins have been added. Effect pluggins meaning reverb, compression, Eqing etc??????

[@nolanneal]

Some compressor plug ins like the 1176 are modeled to sound different depending on where the gain/output knob is turned. So in this case that rule does not apply. You’d want to crank the output up to where your coloring the track how you want to... then use a gain or trim style plug in to dial it back down :) .... or just turn the fader down because the new protools can handle moving faders. I don’t believe you have to keep your faders at unity anymore. What’s the point of having faders if you can’t mix with them?

[@DJBOO]

Can anyone help me on this thing ..if you load a professional song in Fl studio it's always higher that 0 db

[@anaqim]

Very well explained, but frankly, while this makes much sense, and probably more so for people recording instruments, for others that work entirely in the digital domain, this mainly relates to recording vocals and nothing else. I don't get why use a gain tool when I can use the channel fader, unless I need to drastically increase gain. Perhaps I will find use for it with vocals recorded around -18 dB. Use gain tools because faders scale logarithmic? Who moves these with the mouse pointer anyway? I either use the mouse wheel or input the values directly, which negates the claimed problem. The tip about recording vocals a bit lower to hit my preamp's sweet spot, iwas new to me so thanks for that :)

[@Theactivepsychos]

I use a vu meter plugin at gain stage recording and then as a first plugin for control at mixing stage

[@G3438]

I got obsessed with Wave Candy peak meter in FL and is a shame that there is no similar competitor plugin for Mac users in other DAWs, now am stuck learning FL even tho the workflow and keyboard shortcuts sucks on Mac. All this because of this gain staging issue.

[@nizzaofficial]

Sorry I’m a newbie .. So with a VU metre I understand turning your stem/track down until it’s around 0 on the VU metre but I have some stems that are bearly moving on The VU metre, do I turn them up until they are around 0 On then VU metre? Thanks 🙏🏻

[@JimGriffOne]

So much easier in Cubase. You can select the audio part and middle mouse wheel down the gain of the part. I never knew what gain staging was until now, even though I've been a sound engineer for 20 years. It's a new one to me, but seems I've always done it anyway. Can't stand seeing other people's projects where they have faders right down at the bottom. No headroom either way. Difficult to automate.

[@jazzattak]

I noticed that your gain adjustments are done POST fader...would this not mean that you could just be tweaking the level of an already distorted or overloud signal? Should we not do our initial gain staging in The PRE fader mode?

[@mpstr9901]

Yikes. Very unnecessary. Save your plugin space and use clip gain instead (select an audio region and set the gain in the left sidebar). For tracks with a lot of dynamics, like vocals, you can split the vocal by word, phrase, etc. and independently set the gain for each region. It can save you a bit of time even if some additional fine-tuned gain automation is needed. I mainly just use the gain plugin to invert phase or force mono.

[@thechannelitrollwith1645]

In Pro Tools, the proper way to fix initial gain is using the clip gain feature, right? Anyone with insight on the matter? It makes it pretty intuitive to just fix it at the source clip so you don't have issues with inconsistent takes on the same track. I've honestly only ever used FL and PT so idk how it works in other programs.