Gain Staging Is A Waste Of Time

►► Download your FREE Polished Production Checklist by clicking HERE: frightboxrecor...
I'm sure you've heard people yapping on and on about gain staging and just how important of a skill it is if you're looking to mix like a pro. The question is...
Is this even true? I there a "sweet spot" that you should always aim for when recording and setting track levels? Do levels even matter when you're mixing in a DAW with plugins (like most of us are these days)?
In this video, I explain exactly why gain staging (in the way people are thinking about it) is a complete waste of time.
►► Frightbox MERCH: frightbox-reco...
► Website - frightboxrecor...
► Facebook - / frightboxrecording
► Instagram - / frightboxrecording
All music in video mixed and mastered @ www.frightboxre...

[@FrightboxRecording]

►► Download your FREE Polished Production Checklist by clicking HERE: frightboxrecordingacademy.com/polished-production-checklist/

[@gossipboynyc9625-VN]

Great advice! excellent topic, at 7:44 I think maybe the first thing you should reach for is Spectral de-essing or something like what Soothe does, for the guitar and the drums - overheads, and everything should smoothen out so then you can start managing the loudness or pre-amping, gaining, saturations. Once you smoothen out and remove harsh resonances, you can Tube it more or push it louder without hurting or damaging ears with the grating resonances Good channel thanks

[@TheNexusComplex]

Should you obsess over gain staging? No. Should you completely disregard it? No should you address it? Yes.

[@djabthrash]

Exactly

[@tokenofdevotion]

I think it's no no and no. Who cares about gain staging when you're recording into an interface. Just don't clip and there you go

[@HR2635]

I only gain stage at my plugins.. that is: make sure the recoding and the plugins dont clip . done. great mixes. never had any complaints. Even had top mastering engineers congratulate me on good mixes. Oh.. and I use cheap-ish interfaces with cheap to medium priced microphones.. i'm naughty ;-)

[@dilemmacubing]

@@tokenofdevotion you mean no, yes, and no?

[@loredanamassini9484]

​@@HR2635so inside the mixer daw.......gainstaging Is basically put at the very First plugin insert, a trim knob at _19 , for every sound?

[@jan_07]

It’s still important though - after the recording phase. The plugins that emulate analog hardware have requirements on the amount of levels coming in to them to operate the way they’re designed to. My advice is, check the manuals of your plugins first and adjust the level signal going into them accordingly.

[@iamgeorgesears]

This.

[@rafsnchz]

This is all subjective too. Taylor Larson(probably one of the best mixing engineers imo) will sometimes clip the shit out of a plugin on the way in. As long as it sounds good.

[@jan_07]

@@rafsnchz there’s nothing wrong with clipping a plugin on the way in if you’re aware of it and just deliberately doing it like Taylor Larsson does. He’s doing an educated and calculated decision, as expected of an engineer. That is not a subjective decision at all. But if you’re clipping it by sheer ignorance of gain staging and complain “oh this plugin is so far away from what the analog version does”, then that’s where the problem is. Gain staging is important if you really want to follow plugin instructions for analog emulations and expect the response that you want from that particular hardware.

[@peterbondmusic]

The input (and often output) level to analog emulation plugins will often profoundly affect the way they sound, this is why gain staging is still a thing even in an all ITB floating point mixer environment. Also fader throw can be a consideration.

[@JamieDrumz]

Another superb, anti-bs video. Thank you! When I was first learning music production at school, the teachers told us to record as hot as possible at ALL TIMES. Turns out they brought their analogue approach with them into a digital world. Haven't recorded "hot" in years and never had a single issue - if anything tracking actually became easier because I never again worried about clipping.

[@synthzizer3324]

Um. U had to come from an analog chain to call it recording. Therefore you worked thru some sort of level management/gain management plan before AD. By your analysis you might as well come in at -60 then what, gain up?? Gaining up huge leaps is ridiculous on so many levels

[@djabthrash]

@@synthzizer3324 ^this

[@JamieDrumz]

@@synthzizer3324 Did you even watch the video?

[@synthzizer3324]

@JamieDrumz did you even try and increase your levels up from your analog noise floor before AD? Is that mixing or recording? What true peak levels are you putting into your DAW? Does it matter as long as you don't clip your digital conversion chain? No it doesn't. Record with a decent heft of meat...because there is a difference in audio quality digitizing with wimpy levels then gaining up.

[@JamieDrumz]

@@synthzizer3324 I think you missed the point of my original comment, and possibly the point of the video. Good luck with all your recording endeavours :)

[@dwightdeon2421]

Some plugins do have a sweet spot, but they won't necessarily sound bad if you don't aim for those levels. I think there's some confusion about the -18dbfs thing. That's not 0db peak in the analog world. That's 0VU which i more of an averaging RMS level and the VU meters were too slow to catch fast transient material. The peaks wouldn't register. We had to record things like hi hats and fast percussive stuff a lot lower than 0VU because the peaks were much higher in reality. If you set your peak input to -18dbfs in your daw, you're tracking way too low. For some instruments, like an acoustic guitar with fast transients but mostly sustained rms energy, it might barely register on the meter at those levels. I set my peak levels on input to about -12dbfs to -10dbfs and it keeps my average levels in that -18dfs sweet spot, most of the time. Also allows me to keep my faders closer to unity which makes mixing easier because the resolution of the fader throw is much finer in that area. If tracks are too hot, you need to pull the faders down too far in mix to not blow up your master bus, and a tiny nudge can be 4-5db volume changes down at the bottom of the range. The only gain staging i obsess over is keeping my signal the same volume as it goes through various plugins, so if i bypass it, i don't get fooled by the volume difference. That's it. otherwise, just keep the levels sensible and don't worry about it too much.

[@phadrus]

Yep

[@MrBassyk]

“There’s no sweet spots on analog emulation plugins”. Yes. There is. Many are designed specifically to emulate those sweet spots because they are integral to how you use them creatively. Many plugins this isn’t true for. But when you have a plugin that has built in harmonics in the input gain stage like say many emulations of an 1176, and you have a signal that needs 20dB of boost to start pushing it, you’re introducing much more harmonic distortion into the processing. You will hear it. That’s the point. You should be able to utilize that as a creative tool when you want. You should not tell people it doesn’t matter though. “I’ve never heard of these concepts before reading them in comments” Well then they must be crazy because surely new info from your viewers can’t be helpful or true! Right? “Most people aren’t using analog / tape, so it doesn’t matter” Analog gear is flying off shelves. This is simply untrue. Hybrid setups are a cornerstone of the industry, especially in pro environments. Aspire to learn how to work in pro environments, not train yourself to create workflows that won’t be cohesive with analog down the line. Gain staging doesn’t always matter. But it still matters.

[@phadrus]

It matters through the entire mixing structure

[@greghillmusic]

Show me one plugin manual that proves your statement.

[@davejohnsonmusic]

Most analog-modeled plugins do have a sweet spot though, for where they will give the optimal character of the unit. Some like the Lindell plugins let you change the calibration level, so you can adjust where that sweet spot is (where the saturation starts kicking in). That way, you don't have to gain up/down your audio clips to hit the spot. Is it overkill? Maybe, but if you're working in a genre where analog characteristics are apart of the vibe you're going after, then hitting those plugins optimally will make a difference in the tone. But this is stuff that an experienced mixer/producer would want to pay attention to. If you're just starting out, then it's not worth losing sleep over. Your ears probably won't hear a difference, or even know what to listen for.

[@gossipboynyc9625-VN]

I would worry about the vocal and the drums, at the very least. And obvious main sound like the Piano or keyboard, Strings. But most certainly the Vocal, would have to be at least sweet-spot aware or managing

[@BR_READDY225]

Exactly

[@dylangadwa3119]

THIS is a discussion well worth having and I wish more plugin manufacturers were up front in leading it. The issue about levels and gain staging is a different kettle of fish. This video relates to amp sims but really does a great job getting into the reasoning about why it is important in specific scenarios. If anyone has other thoughts to share on this subject, please fire away. kzbin.info/www/bejne/oImui6SAqc9_ocksi=GKdu2Y_6U53XlsQ7

[@gossipboynyc9625-VN]

@@dylangadwa3119 autogaining the sweet-spots would probably be the future, could do with ML etc, similar to what Fresh air i think does with the highs and air, I think it auto-compensates

[@adrianwagner336]

gain staging prior to beginning a mix can make things quicker and easier later on particularly with high track count mixes 😉

[@t.c.v.t.]

It comes down to being uneducated on the subject so people don't know what they are talking about. They just twist knobs and pick plugin presets and don't actually have any knowledge of audio. A lot of "home studio owners" today are people that have no business mixing. They are guitar players that like making their own songs. So the industry created "realistic" midi drums and "ready to go no adjustment needed amp sims". So these "home studio owners" only have to pull up the drum midi program and a amp sim, not adjust shit and have a "record quality" mix. Then they introduced "mix ready' bass amps sims or bass midi that were ready to go. Everything was made by people that know what they are doing to be plug and play. That has created a bunch of "mixing engineers" that actually never learned and practiced any actual mixing or troubleshooting which is most of mixing when you start and still is a big part of recording no matter how seasoned you are. That's why. I get most levels to be about the same at the end of the signal chain so I know that everything is mostly the same level when I go to the faders and mix. It's just how I've done it since I started doing live sound back in the day (early 2000's on a huge analog Allen and Heath that was like 6 to 8 feet long were gain staging did matter). Also so I have a good amount of travel available for my faders so I have range and not just maxing out every fader with nowhere to go. Just like how almost all converters are of equal value from the cheap Behringer under 50 bucks to the most expensive interface. These people never really have looked into how digital audio works and what the reality behind it is. Just believing anything anyone says which helps sell a bunch of expensive gear when people have more than enough gear that is plenty hi quality enough they just have to practice mixing and read up more on the science of audio and think how to use that knowledge to you advantage in the forms of mixing techniques, type of plug in to use etc. Comes down to buy less shit, practice and read more. But that requires work and no fun choosing plugins all day so most don't.

[@drewinman7171]

The bottom line question is, "Does it sound good?" Yes? Then, the end justifies the means.

[@PlugMEin]

Hmmmm, I don't agree with this statement and the only reason I don't is because, what may sound good to one person, may sound thin and not professional to others. I understand the statement but, if you are trying to get great mixes, full sounding and to sound as pro as possible, thinking that way, will not get you there. Learn the tricks of the trade, learn your craft and listen to everything that sounds amazing and find out what they do then implement that to your work. Sooner or later, you will become an amazing producer/mixer etc. I hope you understand.

[@drewinman7171]

@PlugMEin Music is subjective, not objective. Bobby here has done well to show that a lot of industry paradigms are not as absolute as some would want us to think. The audience only cares that it sounds good and entertains.

[@marcsmith8146]

So let me ask, if a kid starting off says this sounds great. Then hears a professional mixed record and says wow, maybe it doesn’t sound that great. Do you tell them “Don’t worry about it, if it sounds good to you, that’s all that matters” or do you say “Hey, you can make it better by doing this and not doing that and that’s a great starting point!”? Just wondering. Does everyone get a trophy?

[@drewinman7171]

If you like it, listen to it. If you don't like it, don't listen to it. Fuck me for enjoying something for the sake of enjoying it instead of by how it was made. I'll be over there doing so while you all polish your trophies. Deuces!

[@Allious131]

@@PlugMEin No one cares if you agree or not because we think it sounds good, you are one person who no one knows or cares to know. So your opinion means absolutely nothing at all just like my opinion so again no one cares if you agree or not. The only thing we care about is if sounds good, you people are doing to much out here and from what I have seen the people that are has no music to begin with, or their music sounds horrible.

[@PlugMEin]

Sorry, this is not true though some stuff is true. Gain staging is important still. Yes, even in a digital DAW. Why? If you use any type of Analog Style plugin/s that model the nonlinear aspects of the hardware and the plugin can distort cause it has saturation in it, you need to gain stage! VERY IMPORTANT!!! If you are using pure digital style plugins without any type of nonlinear function, like he's using in his mix here, yes, you do NOT have too though it's still always in good practice. This is where I/We agree. Sorry, your video popped up on my feed and I'm 100% against giving out wrong info to new users or people that want to learn about audio/mixing etc. I'm glad you are sharing info which is great. Take care, Marc

[@Simula77]

I’ve heard this argument several times but I’ve yet to see anyone provide an example of an analog emulation plugin that sounds different when driven with signals of different levels. Would be very interesting to see a commonly used plugin from say Waves or UAD that creates an audibly different output depending gain staging when output levels are normalized. Not saying it doesn’t happen but haven’t seen any evidence so far.

[@Studio22mix]

@@Simula77 Check this out, it's copied strait from the manual of Waves LA2A (analog modelled compressor) As most people tend not to read manuals, so here you have your evidence; Many different elements contribute to the unique sonic behavior of analog gear. Waves painstakingly modeled and incorporated the characteristics of the hardware into the CLA-2A, in order to fully capture and replicate the sound and performance of the original equipment. The hardware was modeled at reference levels of -18 dBFS = +4 dBu, meaning that a signal of -18 dBFS from the DAW to the hardware unit will display a meter reading of 0 VU (+4 dBu). These are some of the most important elements of analog behavior: • Total Harmonic Distortion Perhaps the most important analog behavior is Total Harmonic Distortion or THD, which is defined as the ratio of the sum of the powers of all harmonic components to the power of the fundamental frequency. THD is usually caused by amplification, and changes signal shape and content by adding odd and even harmonics of the fundamental frequencies, which can change the overall tonal balance. THD can also change peak output gain, usually by no more than +/- 0.2-0.3 dB. Just try it out I would say, check the manual of an analog modelled plugin that you own.

[@Simula77]

@@Studio22mixI am not saying that there cannot be a difference in sound but even that manual only says: "hardware was modeled at reference levels of -18 dBFS = +4 dBu" not specifically that it will sound different if the same amount of compression is applied to signal of a lower amplitude. I do have the CLA-3A from Waves and UAD LA-2A so hopefully I have time to make some real world tests.

[@DaspacestationBeats]

​@@Simula77In pro tools run a sine wave using the signal generator. Now open any spectrum analyzer. Now open any Uad compressor or preamp. Look at the harmonics in the high frequencies. I can hear them even with a sine wave. Now gainstage your sine wave to -18 rms and sweep the sweet spots on the Uad plugin.

[@philipalmen5116]

Thank you for this, been stressing over gain staging like I somehow missed the essence of mixing and mastering. I've been rapidly progressing in my skills so I guess I've got an ear for it!

[@johnwalter6410]

Well to be fair if you don’t make sure everything stays below a certain level you’re gonna clip your channels so it’s nice to be able to set all that up ahead of time and then you don’t have to keep on top of it throughout the rest of the mix

[@knotid]

Thanks Bobby, I knew at the beginning what your were going to say but it's a relief that you explain that so honestly.

[@adissabovic]

Dunning-Kruger is strong with this one!

[@phadrus]

Yep

[@cyberspark4206]

I worried about gain staging for a little bit. Then when I realized all I needed to worry about was clipping everything got way more relaxed. Great video bud keep em coming!

[@gossipboynyc9625-VN]

At least for Vocal, it's most certainly Sweet-spot, Gain-stage awareness - Most Mix Engineers and Mastering do

[@georgezorbas9036]

Today I bought gain staging plugin. Why...to feed properly the plugins

[@tomaskrittian]

why to buy a plugin for that? just turn down/up the gain of the tracks before hitting whatever plugin you wanna use

[@synthzizer3324]

Dude. Gain staging and Level management is an interchangeable term such as tracks and a track. You need 100% to do proper level management (gain staging at the pre fader level is really important) I'm leveling my pre fader gains too -4.0 on alot of the audio. But I also don't use any master processing. But that's my way of working. Bubble the mix upto - 0.1 is a fkn art to behold without a master limiter.. Good luck doing that with no gain staging/level management.

[@phadrus]

Yes, it’s not just about the straw man argument of “not clipping”, It’s also about maintaining the balance levels that you carefully set during your static mix, so you don’t screw that up and have to start over.

[@richiebricker]

Thank You very much. My guitar signal goes in very low then i compress and add volume but always worried about doing this too much. Damn, thats alot of weight off my shoulders

[@shanemaderejr.7675]

Thank you for this. I love when myths are dispelled. So much time is spent arguing over non-issues instead of MAKING MUSIC.

[@FrightboxRecording]

I couldn't agree more!

[@johnwalter6410]

Myth? So what you’re telling me is if somebody sends you a session and the guitars are clipping the channel you don’t lower it before you start mixing?

[@djabthrash]

@@johnwalter6410 ^ there you go

[@mpasistasyalanci]

I don’t care about certain db numbers but I care about the interaction between different units, from the microphone/ preamp interaction to how much I may saturate or not an analogue emulation vst. I think about gain more like a sensitivity knob than a volume one. A clear indication of sensitivity is with a dynamic handheld mic and the distance you can have while singing, there the preamps gain has a more significant role than any volume afterwards has. The same electrical interaction is happening with di’s , instruments like a bass with a preamp pedal etc , condenser mics have a more broad sweet spot but it still applies a bit.

[@katiepower1570]

my audio looks waveform at the top and bottom but it is below 0db I am confused?

[@abrahamkwame1476]

I love the song already can't wait to hear the full thing

[@marshal-d-123]

Thanks, this probably saved me a bunch of time about worrying about arbitrary numbers. Now I can tackle learning mixing without that hurdle in my way 👍

[@phadrus]

Selecting a unity gain isn’t arbitrary though. If you don’t maintain your gain structure throughout the mixing process your mix will fall apart.

[@marshal-d-123]

@@phadrus I meant that I don't have to worry about specific numbers, but can just ball park if it sounds right to my ear. Legitimately, if there's something I'm not getting right plz explain it to me cuz I'm an ultra beginner and just tryna figure it out

[@enterthehacks]

I have to disagree - at least with the title that gain staging "is a waste of time." If you're obsessing over it, then yea. You're not getting what it's actually for, but that doesn't mean it's a waste of time -- Even in a DAW. You're using Pro Tools. Pro Tools has more HEADROOM than any other DAW I've seen. (And I've tested pretty much all of them at one point or another.) I'm actually fairly certain Pro Tools does a certain amount of automatic gain staging to prevent peaks from happening in the master channel. But as an avid Ableton user, I have to stage my input levels ALL THE TIME to prevent my master channel from peaking. ... And that's the other reason gain staging is important. I agree that it isn't that necessary to worry about while *recording* as long as you have an interface with a low enough noise floor (although some really cheap interfaces or live mixers can still introduce lots of noise). You really just need to find a good average level that won't peak the input, or the right level you need for an analog-emulating plug-in you might be using. BUT AFTER THAT, as you start adding 10, 15, 20 tracks to the mix, in some DAWs like Ableton, it just keeps increasing the level going to the master.. and before long you will peak the master channel. This requires me to go back and drop my output levels on all my tracks by 6db or 12db (or whatever) until I'm no longer peaking my master channel. Alternatively, (as long as I'm not peaking any of the individual tracks) I could simply turn down my master. Sometimes this works too, but it depends on the mix. Now do I miss Pro Tools for doing more of this work automatically? No. It's nothing more than a momentary hassle that's easily fixed, and I much prefer Ableton myself for 90% of the rest of the work. But YES: staging your inputs in the DAW matters too! It wouldn't be the first time somebody mixed professionally in a recording studio for years without really knowing everything about their field, and it won't be the last either. 👍

[@pelennorDSP]

I must say I'm very tempted to do some testing of analog emulation style plugins at different levels to see if there is a detectable difference... I find gain staging doesn't necessarily help my mixes sound better, or different , but it makes a difference to workflow. When each track starts in a similar level, it becomes obvious pretty quickly what needs to be turned down on the faders. And I start to see across a number of mixes that I make relatively consistent fader moves, which again saves me time, for a relatively small cost at the start of a mix of gain staging the individual tracks and buses.

[@TheDragonDeacon]

There are a LOT of plugins (like amp sims for example) that are optimized to operate the best with a specific input gain. It does matter.

[@PlugMEin]

YES, test! Gain staging is very important when using analog style plugins. Not so much digital style ala Fabfilter, Avid digital style core plugins, or any DAW's core plugins are usually digital styled. When using analog style ala UAD plugin, Certain Waves Analog styled with saturation and/or distortion, or many other analog styled, please do the testing to see if a over 0db like +12 db will affect your sound going into the plugin, does it distort etc.

[@phadrus]

Gain staging is too narrowly defined in this video. I think you’re making sense

[@djabthrash]

"I find gain staging doesn't necessarily help my mixes sound better, or different , but it makes a difference to workflow" and better workflow helps with getting better mixes...

[@smujohnson]

I agree with this video. I am a beginner and I have noticed that on EQs and compressors that the gain does matter as far as what the input graph looks like. I’m not sure if I should gain stage in the DAW so the graph looks somewhat consistent as training wheels though. sad😢

[@threepe0]

Spending the first minute confused, as gain STAGing (multiple stages) has nothing to do with levels in your DAW. Ahh 2:14, the word I was waiting for: noise! This is an enlightening perspective, thanks man!

[@FrightboxRecording]

You're exactly right. Many people these days are throwing the term "gain staging" around in ways that don't make any sense.

[@ikigaya]

bro i made a mistake reading comments before watching the whole video....i went in to hate on the guy but this guy is actually right and extremelly accurate.....this saves a lot of time when u avoid clipping rather than focusing on the numbers

[@tauvholiik7936]

Once all tracks are recorded whether midi or wav or both, and before bouncing or resampling any tracks, I begin mixing all tracks from its default 0db and adjust each track +-

[@zeus_ex]

Its a big lie. Gain stagiaire is important cause in studio and most artiste recording themselve they have a template and that said tamplate is set to be at -18 / -24db. So yes its usefull.

[@Goeogoth]

Does the analog plugins clip above -18 like the real hardware? I don't think so.

[@PeterSavad]

Factual information. I have left over gaining habits from the analog days. It keeps things more orderly in my mind, but in the end it doesn't affect the sound.

[@djabthrash]

"It keeps things more orderly in my mind" : which is very important when mixing !

[@TheDragonDeacon]

This is why you're still recording in your bedroom dude. Making broad statements and overwimplifying things to a fault is no good. Look at Rhett Shull's new video "we need to talk about amp sims" where he went into depth about how you need to gwin stqge correctly going into an amp sim. Analog plugins also need a proper input volume. If you cant hear the difference, it doesnt mean that it "doesnt matter".

[@phadrus]

Yep, the video was misleading

[@CTimaure]

Of course there are differences, but you can sound good in both ways.

[@SoundFreqsOnline]

evidently you haven’t heard his mixes because he clearly knows what he’s talking about

[@codycreepcore]

For me I never questioned your gain staging for the sound, it just confused me for the sense of workflow, but if it works, it works!

[@kevinhunter2598]

Oh and for the headroom that's all handled in the master bus and on a few the tracks to HP and LP the unneeded frequencies 😊

[@horizonxx_1]

It is still a bit confusing, I am not clipping on tracks in Logic Pro x but the stereo output is so therefore you really do need to gain stage on chanels. I tried the whole-18 db on every Chanel then it made every track so quiet the guitar was too loud as I tracked and the music lacked energy.

[@jeracravo]

Good final thought on this video, thanks for doing this, but the title... uhhhh... I don't think it gives the right notion for the beginners.

[@sylfan1]

I think that gain staging, while important in the studio world, is much more relevant in a live setting, where if you're not keeping it in mind you're often a fine line away from an entire FOH system squealing on you. 😀

[@FrightboxRecording]

I agree 100%. Unfortunately, a lot of people online are thinking of gain staging in ways that have little to do with practical applications like what you mentioned. The problem is that some think that their mixes will magically sound better when hitting some arbitrary "sweet spot" within their DAW's.

[@phadrus]

@@FrightboxRecordingnever seen these people, I guess they are out there

[@98939893]

Not sure about this. Without gain staging I get too much buildup in the sub busses before the master. And some plugins add gain/volume and don't have an option to reduce the gain.

[@phadrus]

You’re right. Need to control audio through entire audio chain.

[@ripperthecrooks6428]

I still have insane amounts of noise, using high gain amp sims with my interface input at zero and noise gates activated, electrical current Cant really explain it but there is noise, I have to lower gain in the sim and lower the input going in the amp sim as well to the point where its just not fun anymore, level is too low, I can barely see the waveform. How do I get strong transients If I need to lower my interface input to get a good guitar tone through the amp sim.

[@genuinefreewilly5706]

I completely agree. Every DAW and recording app give you the best range to record into and they are pretty much the same practice. For vst instruments you have a lot of range For particular older hardware its a different thing. You are going to introduce noise and artifacts and stereo imbalances if your levels are too low. If you can resolve issues on the way in, that is ideal. With a crisp recording, Id rather add distortion and harmonics rather than putze around trying to take things away

[@allanpavani]

Now, this is something I've been struggling with. Thanks for that video, Bob!

[@agork]

Good point. I would like to add this though. Anything records with a mic in the room, must sound good in the room and on the track before adding any further plugins or processing.

[@rickbergsma4354]

If you use a hybrid system it helps to reduce noise floor

[@dominicgebhardt7042]

As always, you provide nice, crisp and precise information! Thanks!

[@rustyksradrodzgarage7087]

Love the content, trying to download the polished production checklist but it just takes me to an image. Suggestions? I am subscribed to your emailers.

[@FrightboxRecording]

Try it again, it should work now!

[@rustyksradrodzgarage7087]

@@FrightboxRecording got it, thanks

[@PerryCodes]

I have a feeling watching this video is going to be a waste of time... but I'll bite. Post: While some good points regarding the noise floor being less of a concern were made, I absolutely disagree with saying "gain staging is a waste of time." While the definition has changed somewhat, you can't just all of a sudden completely ignore levels.

[@phadrus]

Paying attention to and crafting levels is the whole point of mixing, it’s literally want you are doing as a mixer (balance engineer). You can say you aren’t gaining staging but you are. If you don’t setup a maintain a reliable gain structure, selecting a sensible unity gain for your entire signal chain, you’re likely going to mess up your static mix levels you worked hard to setup, at minumum.

[@JD-vj4go]

I didn't know what it was but kinda glad it's one less thing to worry about. Thank you.

[@BillGraper]

The only reason I gain stage is so I'm not clipping on my master track. Before I knew about gain staging, I used to keep my faders at 0 Db. I couldn't figure out why I couldn't get some things, like keyboard sounds, to even be heard. I asked on Reddit, and a couple of people told me to make some screen captures. As soon as they looked at my pics, they said right away "Everything is too loud!!! You have to turn them down to a certain level (gain staging) so when they all come out of the master track, they are not fighting each other." I wasn't clipping, but the individual tracks were too loud, making it impossible to mix properly.

[@phadrus]

Gain staging through the entire audio chain is 100% necessary, it’s nearly literally what a mixing engineer does-control audio volume.

[@tkelong3569]

I tried it but I didn’t like it. It felt like I was taming my music and not allowing it’s full character to take shape. That’s me; if you use and like it, go for it. The idea is to get your song to sound the way you envisioned it. Use whatever gets you there.

[@Alfernav]

I do it the same as you, Don’t clip and stay in the green; that’s it. I’m working on two rock and metal songs that I haven’t even mixed yet and they sound amazing.

[@HannonHawkes]

I'm not sure what you mean here, the gain staging I was taught about it just to keep overall volume the same coming in and out of any given plugin so you don't trick yourself into thinking it's better than it is, but that doesn't seem to be what you're talking about here

[@mattwhite399]

If you don’t know what he’s talking about, keep it that way! You will save yourself so much time and wasted energy!!! Short version: analog gear has a “sweet spot” where the hardware reacts best. The idea has carried over to the digital world, but it’s a myth 99.9999% of the time. Don’t clip, that’s it. Check your plugin manuals because they might claim there’s a sweet spot. You can hit that if you want, but it’s almost certainly nonsense marketing talk from the manufacturer.

[@phadrus]

You’re right. The definition of gain staging in this video is incomplete and misleading. As mixing engineers we control volume, and that includes all the audio coming I and out of buses and plugins through the entire audio chain. It’s literally the basis of the engineers job.

[@mikebozik]

Yeah, I gain stage for -6db peaks pre fade and unity gain on mix chains all the way through mixing. It's absolutely essential, not unnecessary or a myth...😊 If you are confused or "wasting" time on it, then you probably don't understand it and should do some more research. Ignoring it is not the solution. 😊

[@phadrus]

@@mikebozik yes sir

[@mattwhite399]

@@mikebozikare you doing that to control your levels all the way to the master fader? If so, great! Are you doing it because you’re trying to hit the “sweet spot” of your plugins? Thats a waste of time. If something is too loud, turn it down. If something is too quiet, turn it up. No big deal, nothing to think about.

[@warclownband]

exactly what i was looking for. right on man thanks...

[@rafsnchz]

This is 100% true. It’s funny but it’s always these no-name guitar forum battlers, who like to comment on shit like that. If you ever seen any of the Nail The Mix mixing videos, nobody pays attention to that. Taylor Larson will sometimes clip the shit out of a plugin just if it sound “right” for him. You’re right, as long as you don’t clip - it’s good, that’s it.

[@FrightboxRecording]

You're a smart man!

[@drrodopszin]

What's great though is level matching after compression/saturation (either for peaks or for loudness with LUFS). At least it is a great way to learn if you did improve the track or not (when you bypass it you hear the difference).

[@oldguysplaymetal5517]

While I generally agree with this, its also important to say that sometimes the added volume is desired and I don't level match. Great examples are compression and clipping individual tracks. You will always have a higher perceived loudness when you clip/limit so I may be using said technique specifically to increase the RMS of the track and get rid of the clipping peaks if they are too dynamic. Volume matching is also way over-rated, except maybe in Mastering.

[@jessepaul8819]

I used to run my tracks too loud. Only way I found that out way putting a limiter at the end of the chain. Instant distortion. So I reduced volume just to just before ugly distortion kicks in.

[@VM-oi3dk]

I’m a voice actor. If my signal is too hot at any point it sounds like crap. Clipping on my DAW will distort.

[@tkelong3569]

I’m a freak about clipping. Lol Don’t want it anywhere at anytime, not even a second on the drum buss. Even if it’s just under peak level, as long as there’s no clip, I’m good.

[@stephenkain6603]

What’s the name of the song in that example? I love that riff

[@ric8248]

This is TRUTH. Those people still defending gain staging because of analogue modelled plugins are missing the point. Every single one of these plugins will have its own input level for you to adjust the gain to taste. You could argue that this is gain staging, but no, this is just using the plugin. If you insist on trimming the tracks then you are only gain staging for the very first plugin in the chain. Or do you also gain stage inbetween plugins as well? Because otherwise the whole sweet spot discourse is pointless.

[@sandistained]

I don't disagree with your argument about gain staging regarding the noise floor, but seeing how much make up gain you have to use in your compression plugins and subsequently how low the master limiter threshold is set in your workflow is a bit idiosyncratic. Lots of ways to skin a potato to get the same result, no doubt. But all that space for faders and meters for just the bottom tenth to light up? Learning gain staging translates across analog and digital realms, where I'm not sure I can see mixing like this on a digital console for a live show for instance.

[@ScottWilder]

You made a quick point that everyone should replay 100 times. After compressing the living snot out of a track as most modern mixes do, level hardly matters because the dynamic range of the processed track is only 10 or 15 db of real range

[@QuabmasM]

Actually, your mix probably sounds even better for mixing at lower levels depending on what plugins you use. People often forget to be mindful of thresholds in plugins that emulate saturation like you mentioned. The people speaking about finding a sweet spot miss out on the fact that a lot of times for digital plugins, that sweet spot is found using as little as possible to make things sound more subtle opposed to boxy & cheap. Many big name mixers turn off the emulated saturation religiously when using retro style compressors because it sounds bad at higher levels contrary to real equipment. Its less about the creator companies being smart enough to make it sound great but rather about despite how great they try to get it, it often cant compete with the real thing & with multiple stacks sounds very odd unlike the real analog gear's saturation. Fact is, all saturation compresses more the harder you drive it so that sweet spot always needs more input volume to get more compression but as for tone & color, the sweeter sounding spots can often be found using significantly less input volume especially using digital saturation plugins. And by less input volume, I mean extremely low input levels such as those this video examples & youll never know what that sounds like until you try...Im swearing it sounds better even using the cheaper sounding stuff(its similar to the technique of using extremely low volume wet parallel signals to add tone to your dry signal).

[@onoesmurlocs]

Some people are saying the Hi-Z interface input for amp sims should be set to 0 gain , any thoughts on that bobby ?, I don't how much you use amps over real amps , it did seems work better tbh . then that other suggestions of just below clipping on the interface.

[@Ambolik]

It depends on your philosophy: if it's "if it sounds good it's ok", do what you want with your level as long as you avoid clipping. If you want the "real" response and behavior of your amp sim as it is on the hardware from which the plugin was modeled, you have to know what was the operating level that was used to model the amp. For example, Neural DSP model their amp with a level maxed at +12,5 dBu which corresponds to gain level at minimum on a UAD Apollo Hi-Z input. So to match this, you have to check the specs of your own interface (max admissible level for Hi-Z input), set your gain at minimum on the interface, and adjust the input level on the plugin to match. Example: max admissible level on a Motu M series is +16 dBu for the Hi-Z input. So to match for a neural DSP plugin: gain on the interface at minimum, and +3,5 dB (12,5 + 3,5 = +16) on the input level of the Neural plugin. Then you're sure to have the exact behavior of the amp from which it was modeled. Same thing for other plugs that emulate analog gear: either "if it sounds good it's ok", do what you want with your levels as long as you don't clip, or, if you want fidelity, you have to care about your operating level. For example with a Plugin Alliance Brainworx channel strip, set at 0Vu = + 4dbU, you will get the authentic behavior of the channel strip, especially concerning the saturation of the strip... No one is right or wrong, it just depends on what you're after, and how is your workflow... doing proper gain staging will not improve by essence your mix, but it may help you to get clarity and mastery in your workflow, so you can achieve what you really want with conscience and confidence.... especially when you build your own plugin presets you will use across multiple productions, you have to be regular with your operating levels to get your presets produce the same behavior across your productions...

[@ajdejesus]

I feel like you made this video directed to me 😂

[@ronnysmobilephone]

I used Sonimus console emulations .They out put at -18 when you hit them at 0 vu. And in Samplitude I can easily adjust each track out put to the channel chain to whatever % of volune I want. I just make every track 50% normalization and every thing works out fine.

[@PlugMEin]

Hello Ronny, I beta test for Sonimus and in fact did it for both the API and Neve plugins. They are considered "Analog Emulations". What does that mean? It means they can distort so, be careful. A key point and something I follow is this. When I use to use hardware, 0db was the sweet spot. Most times I would hit it +6db more and to me, that was the sweet spot cause I was trying to get more saturation (bring sound closer) then at 0db. So, what does that mean, well most plugins if not all 0db is -18db on the plugin side. That's considered 0db in the plugin world. So, if I love the sound of it pushed a little, that would be -12db (-18 + 6db=-12db). I hope that makes sense. So why do I take that approach? Cause I use a lot of analog styled plugins. So going from plugin to plugin, making sure you gain match between them all, I will always have a consistent sound that sounds upfront and professional. I hope this helps. Ask any question, I'd be glad to help if it's ok with the admin on this page.

[@Studio22mix]

@@PlugMEin Now that sounds like a logic strategy to me. I never heard about Sonimus, I’ll definitely will check it out. Always interested in stuff I don’t know 👍🏼

[@jeremino263]

That's what i thought already but thanks for confirming

[@a1paradox19]

If it ain’t clippin, I ain’t trippin

[@friedrudibega6384]

I miss tape. No I don’t. Good video.

[@alrecks619]

about gain staging in digital world, just don't clip, that's it. And speaking of DAWs, they are mostly at either 32 or 64 bit nowadays which virtually has unlimited dynamic range.

[@HunnysPlaylists]

Why does the mix sound like a gameboy advance? I like it lol

[@duguy182]

The guy has all his faders around -30 all the time and he is not questionning himself on his workflow. Hilarious.

[@Wizardofvoz2]

Neural DSP advises -12, like most any analog emulator.

[@escapegulag4317]

lol just dont distort your shit and you are fine..

[@billyhughes9776]

Excellent info -- thanks. I don't worry about gain staging in the way you were describing, but, I feel I still struggle with leaving enough headroom on my Master/2Bus. I think part of it is me not setting my monitoring level correctly from jump but also just keeping peaky stuff in check on drums and or vocals. I notice looking at the mix you used as reference, on almost all of your individual tracks you used an L1 at the end. I'm assuming this helps to contain the peakiness that can happen. Thanks again.

[@synthzizer3324]

Leave enough Headroom on your master bus.. ???? WTF for. ??? Crank that shit up to kissing zero. Remove all the BS plug-ins on your master and go naked kissing zero. It's the only way to learn how to make shit slam.

[@billyhughes9776]

@@synthzizer3324 Thanks.

[@JAMPROSOUND]

The web is full of information folks. Be careful who you listen to.

[@phadrus]

Who actually teaches the “myth”?

[@knivestothebirds8481]

Just don’t clip bro! It’s that easy! Not kidding tho, it really is. My mixes always tickle my fancy lol. Ty Bobby for cutting through the bullshit!

[@atypeandshadow]

[Someone is typing...]

[@Exaltation-heliacal]

Stock music

[@blackholestudios9284]

Damn man. You really upset a lot of people in the comments lol. Why are people getting so mad at you? Thought your mix sounds good

[@Studio22mix]

Because it's a click-bait title and definitely NOT 100% pointless as Bobby says. ( even a little bit stupido if you think about it, mixing is all about levels period ) So yeah ... Hot topic indeed 🔥🔥🔥

[@phadrus]

@@Studio22mixagreed

[@ReeWebster]

Clip all your tracks lol

[@whitex4652]

Exactly point on. :-))) I love it. Gain staging is for losers. :-)))))

[@donnadi3621]

Why so angry and defensive?. Love how you felt the need to rattle off your credentials multiple times to give weight to your theory, which really doesn’t stand up for many reasons. For starters half your faders are near the bottom, brilliant .!!! That way you can dick around with no fader headroom when you’re mixing. Secondly, not understanding saturation thresholds of plugins is another reason your over-caffeinated rant is misguided.

[@phadrus]

Yes, this video was a misstep in my opinion, it’s okay though. Just wish it wasn’t so misleading.

[@DaspacestationBeats]

Plugins like the Fairchild, 1176, and Pultec operate at levels around 0vu, -18 rms. You can use the plugins in their sweetspot and control harmonic distortion with good gain staging in the box. This is very easy in Protools. I use clip gain and it takes only 2 seconds on each track.

[@whitex4652]

BS. You see on the meters if you are in the ballpark. Done.

[@DaspacestationBeats]

@@whitex4652 Plugin emulations dont always react to dbfs on Daw peak meters. They react better to 0 vu, or RMS. If your Uad 1176 starts compressing even before you push the input on the 1176 its already distorting. Now you cant hit the sweet spot on the output knob that also has harmonic distortion. Theres also a setting in the 1176 to turn off gain reduction and just use the output and input for saturation. Bass, kicks, snares, piano all have different transients. You can read them better with vu, rms meters instead of meters that react to transient peaks.

[@BR_READDY225]

@@whitex4652shut f up..clearly you don’t know jack ish.

[@peterhorvath8153]

True dat. Most analogue emulations have the sweet spot listed in their documentation.

[@tm8473]

those plugins came, in some fashion, with an addicrtional input level control and an output level control, exactly for that. That way you can tailor the level for the plugin and not worry about gain staging stuff in the whole project. If not you can add some simple level control before the plugin without degrading the signal in any way. The digital world has some interesting upgrades over analogue.

[@jeffbridges6110]

Good video. I've never worried about gain staging as it makes no sense in the digital world. As long as I'm not clipping when recording , I just go. But I do like to make sure I have a strong signal when recording and mixing.

[@danceswith7wolves]

I can definitely hear the difference in saturation with analog emulations when running through them at different levels aka "sweet spot" If you drive them too low you don't get the pleseant harmonics, too hot and they distort. I agree people probably overly obsess about gain staging. I usually just anchor my kick in at -18dbfs and then everything else usually falls right into place with no fuss.

[@mileshurst9823]

i agree with this

[@recordingwhiz]

Love the brutal honesty. too many people focus on trivial unimportant aspects and not the song writing or structure.

[@devilsoffspring5519]

Or putting the bassist high enough in the mix so that he can be heard :) (Something that pro studios and producers struggle with immensely, and have for many decades)

[@tkelong3569]

I agree that things that you mentioned are very important, but just as important is your ‘process’. How you get ‘there’. ‘There’ being getting the song from a thought in your brain to a complete mastered song that you and others enjoy. How important any part of that process is, is subjective. For me, I compose the music first in my songs, so it needs to sound really good to me before I can get comfortable enough with it to write melody and lyrics around it. If I’m not into it, I’m not going to be as creative. So for me gain staging is a non-issue but for probably alot of people, it’s important to their process that’s why I say just do what gets you ‘there’ no matter what people say.

[@Tony-yp7ok]

Disagree with this. It’s worth spending 5 minutes (that’s all it takes) to trim your track levels to something around -18 as this will give you the most sensitivity with fader movements around the 0 mark and you won’t be instantly overloading the mix bus. It’s much easier to take a few minutes to do this than have a load of really hot tracks and then have to have all your faders set near the bottom of their travel, or quiet tracks where you have to ride the fader right up to max to balance it with other tracks.

[@patrickperry6898]

Agree with this, except nothing you said goes against anything bobby says. It's just a workflow thing which is why I trim my tracks before mixing, but if you don't have a problem with it you don't need to.

[@djabthrash]

@@patrickperry6898 - Bobby said gain-staging was pointless, when it's clearly not - "it's just a workflow thing ..." : so it's helpful for mixing (and you do it), and not hamper your mixing

[@BR_READDY225]

I completely agree

[@Soulcrusher199]

His argument is also not really good imo. „I‘ve never heard of gain staging and i am professionally producing over a decade from now, so its gotta be pointless, cuz i am never wrong“ or what..

[@FilthyIcon]

I agree with you, it should literally take 5 minutes. There's no need to obsess over this at all either as some claim you have to get exact numbers, but just ballparking it at least is good. Some tracks you don't even have to do anything to and you leave it as is and move on.

[@jacksmith4460]

There is a difference between "pointless", and "far less important than in the analog days and only important in very specific situations"

[@digitaldroo]

Yeah, as I watched this video and saw the bits about “don’t clip” and “don’t record at TOO low a level,” well, that kind of implies gain staging *isn’t* pointless. But I suppose calling it pointless makes a video more clickable than “don’t obsess over the subject of gain staging.” 🤷‍♂️

[@djabthrash]

@@digitaldroo ^this

[@phadrus]

Gain staging does matter, but it isn’t well defined in this video. Gain staging means controlling and managing the level of audio through the entire mixing chain. That means on all tracks, through all plugin, and on all buses.

[@gossipboynyc9625-VN]

It is part of Mixing and Mastering, you gain up, you pre-amp up, you add saturation, you add fulness or bass. Gaining up the Bass is basically like Gainstaging, and then of course there's the middle, transient, treble etc

[@poorlittlemonkey]

Another clickbait video that adds to the confusion for people who aren’t educated. You’re part of the problem not the solution.

[@phadrus]

Yep

[@baker8584]

Gain staging through multiple devices makes a huge difference on you tone color. And the entry gain is vital on certain plugins too, sooo. All I'm saying is it's better to make it a tool than ignore it.

[@HR2635]

ill give you that a few plugins are changing the sound based on input level.. I usually delete those plugins, as its a bad design descision ( I am also a programmer with 25+ years of pro experience) but yes, some plugins do that. Most do not. DAW native plugins are mostly better at not doing that.

[@prucopyn720]

I never got this obsession with gain staging, but I do appreciate the need for the levels to be in and around a certain place as the resolution of the faders is different across the entire throw.

[@R0bstar-YT]

This is pretty much all it's about, everything else in this video is hyperbolic strawmanning.

[@willkeizer7834]

1.5 minutes into this video, I was asking, "Why is he referring to his sound levels in his DAW tracks as gain-staging? That's not gain-staging." Just stop calling your digital record levels "gain-staging."

[@wapanglemdur]

This guy trying to talk the audio engineering down. . . No wonder we have more bad music and mixes this days

[@djabthrash]

As expected just by reading the video title and what's on the thumbnail : this video is full of shit. Of course gain staging is useful (AKA the opposite of "pointless"), especially for : - consistency of level and waveform size and VUmeter reading across tracks - having the signal at a good level to set compressor and noise gate thresholds It's as useful as things like using templates, color-coding and naming tracks correctly, etc. It helps with the workflow of tracking/editing/mixing, which helps you get better results AKA better-sounding mixes in the end. Enough with the misinforming clickbait video titles and thumbnails.

[@phadrus]

Seriously, these gain staging is stupid just don’t clip videos are getting tedious

[@DalesBadBug]

I Don't see it as a waste of time. it made my mixes far better than they used to be. but as with all music...it just gets better with time.

[@heartsquaremusic2953]

You are very incorrect. You generally want to go into analog modeled plugins at -18dbfs. Digital plugins don’t matter. But, modeled algorithms are built to work based on that, Lindell series notwithstanding (can choose calibration)

[@cominroitover80]

No. It's not.