6 months with my Zio Ciro pizza oven - was it worth upgrading from the Ooni Pro?

[@corrysmith6109]

One of the best reviews I’ve seen on a pizza oven so far I’ve been binge watching so many I’m searching my my first pizza oven thank you for being so detailed!

[@BitontoPizza]

I am so glad this video was helpful to you! You might also want to take a look at the unboxing of the Zio Ciro kzbin.info/www/bejne/rIOwo3WepaqJq5Y or the comparison with other ovens kzbin.info/www/bejne/g57SnoWhZpqYp7M

[@vaporwareproducts]

Dude WHAT pizza oven videos are you watching? Freaking Gozney and Ooni? These are cheap toys...

[@druruguay]

Great job! Thanks for being so accurate and straight to the point (Army approach) , it gets clear that you have enough experience to talk about this, I like the real deal. Thanks again from Uruguay.

[@BitontoPizza]

I'm glad you found it helpful!

[@walterl8863]

I like your style! Your uniform, your commitment, your pizzas and your oven! 🍕🍕🍕

[@BitontoPizza]

Thank you 😋

[@virtuousmountainwoman]

Thank you, I am doing review to check the best purchase for my needs.

[@adamprice6415]

I personally thought that nearly every part of that video was hard work, from you trying to light the fire to launching the pizza.

[@adamprice6415]

I have to agree.. I was literally cringing.. The lighting process was laborious.. the splits of wood are to large…and the pizza was stuck to what looks like a GI peel, I hate these peels the dough just wants to grab it , add a higher hydration dough and heavier toppings plus warmer weather and your in trouble!! I’ll stick with my wood peel 👍

[@fungool]

How are you figuring the lifetime pizza output of these ovens? Is it that they break down somehow and cannot hold temps consistently or some other factor? I figure that they must be repairable to some degree too. Thank you

[@BitontoPizza]

I simplified things for the purpose of the video. When I purchased the oven they gave me an estimate of how long the oven will last. Additionally, I talked to some oven experts and researched forums, etc. You can repair the oven and lengthen its life to a certain extent. I believe eventually the cement becomes to brittle due to the high temperatures. I'm not an expert on that... yet.

[@walsholly]

Thanks for the explanation! That was my experience too with Ooni or roccbox, they just can’t perform in wind. I have 1 question though, you mentioned that you could do about 10k pizzas in Ziro Ciro, and it will give out? How come? I’m hoping to use Ziro Ciro for my pop up, expecting to produce 50/night, so max 20pizzas/hour, do you know if Ziro Ciro will be a good oven for it? Thanks!!

[@BitontoPizza]

You can definitely do 20 Neapolitan pizzas per hour with your Zio Ciro. However, an oven with a thicker dome material and soapstone deck will give you more consistent results. My estimate of 10,000 pizzas is based on my own usage patterns. The masonry of refractory concrete degrades over time, forming cracks. While cracks can be repaired it will get to a point where there are too many of them criss-crossing the dome and it will fail structurally. I'm guessing that it won't die on the 10,000th pizza, but, I was going for more of an order-of-magnitude estimate. I.e., I expect it will no longer be viable well before reaching 100,000. I know of some people that use the Zio Ciro Subito Cotto in their business but they have a line of commercial oven kits that would probably do a better job for you in terms of wood consumption and heat retention.

[@jacobsteele7138]

Very good review of both units.

[@BitontoPizza]

Thanks, Doug. Glad you found it useful.

[@augustinecabrera121]

Hi... Great video. Question... I noticed that other pizza oven have a thermostat to display the temp. How do you know the temp of oven ? Laser gun ? Thanks.

[@BitontoPizza]

I use a thermal gun I picked up at Home Depot like one of these. Just make sure it will measure over 1000F www.homedepot.com/s/thermal%20gun?NCNI-5

[@jeancormier4907]

Hi Paul! I ordered the same oven, a red subito cotto 80. I was wondering if you cover yours when not using it?

[@BitontoPizza]

I absolutely cover it. Here in Texas, the sun eats grill and oven covers at the rate of about 1 per year. So, I get a relatively inexpensive one made for a 4 burner grill and it works fine. I have some foam that I use to cover the chimney to keep the metal from poking its way through.

[@kierantaylor5852]

Greetings from the UK. I got my Zio Ciro Subito Cotto 80 last week and have just finished the curing process, just wondered how long it took you to get consistent with the heating up process?

[@BitontoPizza]

Wow, good question. I would say by about the 10th cook I had it down. My big mistake was cooking too soon. The dome color would be good and the temperature reading great. I learned to let the fire still go for 30 minutes before starting to cook. Made all the difference.

[@vaporwareproducts]

THERE IS NO CURING PROCESS, WHEN THEY SAY THIS THEY ARE FULL OF CRAP - THERE IS NO CURING PROCESS THAT LASTS LIKE AN HOUR... THAT IS THE WAY OF A METAL SHOP TO GET YOU TO BURN OFF ANY OILS AND SLAG BEFORE COOKING. I SAY THIS BECAUSE REAL OVEN CURING GOES FOR 4-5 DAYS..... SEE WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU GET A BUNCH OF UNQUALIFIED PEOPLE SELLING WHAT YOU ARE CALLING PIZZA OVENS???

[@jameswilliford5478]

I'm thinking if you consider the initial cost of the oven, the cost of wood vs gas and the greater expenditure of time for the wood fired oven you could replace the ooni a few times and still come out cheaper. As for the wind blowing out the flame on the ooni you just need a proper area to use your oven. I would love to have a wood fired oven, but even if the cost of the ovens weren't too high the prep time is way too long. If you have the time to invest every time you want to cook pizza maybe the wood fired is for you. I enjoy being able to have pizza within 30 minutes pre heat and cook included. Not to mention the cleanup of the wood fired oven and time that will take. Maybe I would consider having both one day. Ooni for a quick cook, woodfired bigger oven for a longer day of hanging out in the backyard drinking wine or beer and socializing.

[@BitontoPizza]

The Ooni works fine --- I've made some great pizza in it. Unfortunately, things get windy around here occasionally. I can't imagine living in Kansas and trying to deal with that wind while making pizza! In any case if you are just making a couple pizzas, the Ooni is great. I tend to make 10 to 20 at a time. It takes forever in the Ooni because the floor loses heat too quickly.

[@gmull70]

I've been researching wood ovens online for a few weeks any thoughts on the style of oven that's made of stainless steel like the Alfa and the XO opposed to the style you have which looks like it's made of some type of mortar

[@BitontoPizza]

The Alfa and XO, if I am thinking of the same models you are are barrel-types, which I am not a fan of. I talk about the differences in this video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/g57SnoWhZpqYp7M. The big issue with the steel ovens is they lack thermal mass this means you are constantly managing the fire to keep the heat from the top ideal. I loved my Ooni but my Zio Ciro is a much better oven.

[@gmull70]

Thanks for getting back after looking at the zio and reading all the info on the website it says it can be a problem if oven gets wet and must be totally dry before using,so what happens if you have it fired up and it starts raining. I'm also wondering if you have any videos where you are cooking something besides pizza,is it big enough to cook a meal for four adults

[@lukeabear7582]

oh wow. I just got quoted 4,800 dollars for this oven...

[@MT10oreo]

Very helpful! Would love to see a showdown between this and the Gozney dome.

[@BitontoPizza]

I would love to try the Gozney Dome.

[@MrJusmobile]

Valoriani 75 gas/wood combo is absolutely amazing as well!

[@BitontoPizza]

Thanks for sharing!

[@webdesignerandrew6957]

Thanks for these videos. I previously had a cast oven but it was too difficult to move it from New Zealand to Australia. I bought a Ooni Karu 16 several weeks ago. It seems pretty good because I can come home, light it up and be cooking pizzas in half an hour. Also I can warm it up and cook a couple of 14 inch pizzas only using a few lumps of charcoal and a few pieces of kindling. Definitely no good for cooking bread though.

[@BitontoPizza]

Thanks for sharing. I loved my Ooni but, in the end, found it limiting. Since I will probably never move away from this house, portability is not a big issue for me.

[@HarplandProductions]

Great job!

[@BitontoPizza]

Thanks!

[@12mepu]

Hi, great video. One reason I’m looking to upgrade this oven from my Ooni koda 16 is that I’m constantly having to be careful keeping the pizza away from the flame burning the pizza. Do you think this oven is a good option to help avoid that?

[@BitontoPizza]

I used to cook with an Ooni Pro. You are right about being too close to the flame. You end up with burnt crusts or you have to constantly turn the pizza. If you are cooking with gas, the Subito Cotto 60 would work. For wood, I recommend the 80 or the 100.

[@vaporwareproducts]

You are gonna have the same issues here. This oven is waaay to small and has no thermal mass so it won’t hold heat (i.e. you will have to load it up with wood to get to temp and keep feeding it. Sorry but if you want a real WFO experience you need to go buy a real oven, not ones made to “look” like one wrapped with lots of imagery.... Just calling balls and strikes here - no beef with anyone besides crappy affiliate salespeople who are misleading consumers that don’t know any better, yet...

[@12mepu]

@@vaporwareproducts so are you saying you don’t recommend the Zio Ciro?

[@12mepu]

@@vaporwareproducts buying this one with gas no wood

[@vaporwareproducts]

@@12mepu Yes sir that is correct. What are you buying the oven for? What are the qualities of expensive wood fired ovens? What’s missing between them and these? Thermal mass, type of materials (and overall design). You CAN cook A pizza with those/these little ovens - over a short time you will see they are more novelty than a real WFO. My comments were not really pointed at any one in particular....

[@TheHelicapt]

I’d like to place this oven on a concrete counter, how hot does the bottom of the oven get?

[@BitontoPizza]

That's a GREAT question. I haven't measured it, yet, but I'm going to do that in an upcoming video. I have seen others place it on concrete counters and even wood tables so I'm guessing it is safe. However, you should contact the Zio Ciro folks to get a definitive answer.

[@vaporwareproducts]

@@BitontoPizza JEEEZUS, FOLKS THIS IS VERY TELLING... PEOPLE ARE ASKING BASIC QUESTIONS AND THIS DUDE DOESNT EVEN KNOW - WEAK AFFILATE.... WARNING

[@will5430]

I just got the ooni karu 12. Cooked about 30 pizzas on it at around 10 pizzas per cook. I think the oven is amazing for the price. By the time I wear it out i'll probably build a permanent oven but the zio looks awesome too

[@BitontoPizza]

You have the passion!!! Keep it up. I too have managed to do some pretty good sessions with an Ooni but it takes time. Once you start cooking in something with real thermal mass you will be in love.

[@craigmarlow6869]

Great video and channel. My pizza journey was very similar. I started with a pizza stone on the grill, moved to baker box, then an Ooni Pro, I upgraded to an Alfa Forni One. I loved the Ooni Pro, like you I learned a ton but I struggled with wind. It would quite often blow out the gas burner and like you would effect the wood fire.

[@BitontoPizza]

Yeah. Wind only affects the Zio Ciro if it is really blowing hard and straight into the oven which doesn't happen very often. I really love the Zio Ciro - it's perfect for my setup. Mrs. Bitonto Pizza complains that it burns a lot of wood but we've managed to buy from local suppliers. I recently got a 1/2 cord for $30. So, my fuel cost has become negligible and the quality of the wood is fantastic.

[@robertmacabuhay8474]

@@BitontoPizza great video! May I ask what kind of wood you prefer?

[@jamesjowdy5471]

Can you explain in detail about the longevity of your Zio Ciro and the Ooni pro oven, or any pizza oven for that matter. Thank you in advance for your insight.

[@BitontoPizza]

The Ooni pro started showing signs of wear and had to have the tiles replaced after about 500 pizzas. If you make pizza 25 or 30 times a year it will give you a couple. My Zio Ciro is well past 500 pizzas and works like new. Subscribe and get alerts, I have a video on 18 months with Zio Ciro coming out soon!

[@jamesjowdy5471]

@@BitontoPizza I was the one who bought your Ooni oven from you. Other than cleaning the build up of soot or replacing dirty stones, I don’t see the how there would be a lifespan would issue.

[@jamesjowdy5471]

Where’s the good reason for your claim? Any science to back it up? Doesn’t seem to hold up? Don’t you cover your Ziro Coro?

[@jamesjowdy5471]

Don’t get me wrong, the smaller pizza box type ovens are fun, but so prone to wind & limited to use. I enjoy your channel

[@bbbvvhk]

Hi, I am thinking about the 80 or 100. I want to mainly cook meals, not so much Pizza. Can you please help understand if I should buy the 80 or 100? Thank you.

[@BitontoPizza]

Uh, depends on the size of the meal. I do NOT recommend a pizza oven for that, though. If you want to cook meals in a wood-fired oven there are other options that might do that better like a french bread oven.

[@bbbvvhk]

@BitontoPizza thanks for the reply, I live in DFW. Also, who do you use for wood?

[@charliehollender7850]

Would that be equivalent to a 32 inch cooking surface? Would you see challenges with a 28 inch cooking surface for wood?

[@BitontoPizza]

Yeah, maybe 33 inches. In my discussions with renowned pizza oven maker Renato Riccio, he says less than 75cm (about 31.5in) is going to start getting tight. You can always decrease the diameter of your pizza a bit to make it work, but, what's the fun in that! If it is a gas oven, 28 inches will be fine. Thanks for watching!

[@vaporwareproducts]

Yes for sure 28” is waaaaaay to small. You will get frustrated.

[@vaporwareproducts]

NO 28 INCH OVEN IS NOT FINE. IT IS TOO SMALL.... PLEASE GOD DON'T LISTEN TO THIS GUY, HE IS AN AFFILATE SALES PERSON NOT A WOOD FIRED OVEN EXPERT!

[@BitontoPizza]

We were talking about a 28" gas oven, which is doable. I agree it is not ideal. I do not have an affiliate deal with pizza oven companies.

[@lpayne8390]

Looking at the Zio Ciro gas/wood model shipped to the United States.

[@BitontoPizza]

Gas is a good option if you're not a wood fanatic like me. If you intend to cook only with gas, the Zio Ciro SC 60 will be big enough.

[@craigmarlow6869]

I live in British Columbia Canada. One the reasons I chose the Ala Forni was fuel efficiency. I use about two or four double split pieces.

[@BitontoPizza]

Oh, I'm not aware of this oven. Can you share a link to their website?

[@overnightclassic2]

Since you know a bit about htese ovens do you know how hot it gets with gas? I want to buy a zio ciro 100 but not sure if the gas can reach neapolitan temps? The gas burner says it's "too small" for the size of oven but not sure. Only reason I want to go bigger is I want the larger opening for NY style

[@BitontoPizza]

Great questions. I can only really speculate. It IS possible to cook Neapolitan with gas (even in the 'Disciplinare') but it heats the oven differently. I've seen videos where the temps get high enough but you do need a pretty bad @$$ burner to make it work.

[@overnightclassic2]

@@BitontoPizza The zio ciro ovens do come with a burner but the burner specs are for 80cm or smaller. I want to cook sub 60s pizzas and metal ovens are not rated to get that hot. You have to buy a brick/refractory oven for this purpose.

[@kriss_kross1541]

Hi! How many Pizzas could you handle at one Time? They state that its possible to cook 3 Pizzas at one time. Is it true from your state of experience with this oven? Greetings

[@BitontoPizza]

With gas, 3. With wood, 2. I usually cook one at a time. You can see more detail here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/g57SnoWhZpqYp7M

[@vaporwareproducts]

Come on folks, you really gonna cook more than 1 at a time at over 800 degrees? Um no.....

[@SocoArh1]

What does something like this cost since their site does not say?

[@BitontoPizza]

It looks like the current price for the SC 80 is $3,199. You have to choose the color before the price shows on the web site.

[@hombresg33]

Great video! Now if they can bring them into the states.

[@BitontoPizza]

Yeah, I think supply chain is killing everyone right now. According to their US website, they have some white and red Subito Cotto's in stock! Looks like they are out of 60s altogether, though. :( ziociro.com/product/new-subito-cotto-80/

[@hpham72]

Great detailed video on a very nice looking oven. I wonder if you've measured the oven's heat retention curve or can give a rough guideline, say how long it takes to drop to 200F or so after a pizza cook?

[@BitontoPizza]

That's a great question. After cooking neapolitan-style pizza, I let the oven cool for 3 to 4 hours before baking bread. Here is a video that talk about that: kzbin.info/www/bejne/n3eyfnuvndOHkNk

[@RamaSivamani]

The advantage to the Ooni would be the portability. If your friend is having a backyard bbq or potluck you could offer to bring the Ooni over and make pizzas or if you are going to take it to the park or beach or go car camping and want to bring it the Ooni would be portable whereas the Zio Ciro would not.

[@BitontoPizza]

I completely agree. If you need to tote the oven around, the Ooni is superior. If your friend has a gas canister, even better. Those Koda 16" ovens are big enough to cook a real pizza and light weight.

[@rainerrain9689]

Thanks,very helpful.

[@BitontoPizza]

Glad it was helpful!

[@nicholasmoccia1522]

You estimate that this oven could get 10,000 pizzas. what would break down first? i am looking to start a pizza food truck and including the zio ciro 100 oven to my truck. i would like to get more than 10,000 pizzas as i’m commercially selling!

[@vaporwareproducts]

THIS IS NOT A COMMERCIAL OVEN, DON'T CHEAP OUT - GET A REAL ONE

[@BitontoPizza]

It's a pretty rough estimate on my part. The dome will eventually break down. It will form cracks over time.... which can be repaired for a while. If you're really planning to do high volume business on your pizza truck, you'll want to have a professional oven like a Marra Forni, Renato or something like that. I've cooked as many as 30 pizzas in rapid succession in the Zio Ciro but if you're cooking hundreds at a time you'll want something with more thermal mass.

[@nicholasmoccia1522]

@@BitontoPizza have you tried the wood stone corp ovens?

[@mr.denoli7749]

@@nicholasmoccia1522 Hi, I am also planning to open a pizza truck. Tell me which model to choose for gas for 50-100-150 pizzas a day? maybe you can share a link to a KZbin channel or website that has more information on how to equip your food truck.

[@nicholasmoccia1522]

@@mr.denoli7749 hey I decided to get a woodstone oven for our pizza food truck!

[@PizzaRamblings]

When I retire my pizza party oven this will replace it. 👍

[@BitontoPizza]

I'll bet you cooked a lot of good pizza in the Pizza Party. I feel like that was one of the first affordable ovens where you could cook with fire. How was your experience with that oven?

[@PizzaRamblings]

@@BitontoPizza Hello, yeah it was my upgrade from a uuni 3 which I had (and still have) for about 2 months before I wanted bigger. I got hooked on making pizza and splashed out on the pizza party. Mine is gas or wood so it's really flexible. I upgraded the floor to saputo biscotto stones and it's the business. Cook's some really good pizzas in the last 3 to 4 years. I've only just found your channel, I've subscribed and will take a look at your other videos. If you find the time please have a mooch through mine. Cheers and good health 👍

[@vaporwareproducts]

DONT

[@conquer228]

bar pie, love it

[@BitontoPizza]

???

[@sniper10666]

The 80 comes in gas ?

[@BitontoPizza]

Yes, it does. They add an Avanzini Drago burner. Technically you can add it yourself later as the floor and casing are pre-cut for it.

[@overnightclassic2]

I will say bigger pizza ovens are getting less worth it as ooni improves the designs. Ooni karu 16 and other ooni ovens are available at retail stores sometimes 20-30% off with new customer promo codes off one item. Karu 16 cooks way better than my pro ever did and has little learning curve. Cost per pizza is lower with a zio ciro if you are doing professional outputs though. Otherwise I feel I can cook 5-10 pizzas no problems in my ooni. Gozney dome looks like a good sweet spot too since it has a 30cm thick floor.

[@BitontoPizza]

Mo, I like the way you think! There are always trade-offs. I’ve used the portable ovens (I consider Gozney Dome a portable). If you want to heat quick and cook a few pizzas, those overns are great. I cooked in an Ooni Pro for over 2 years. However, there’s nothing like a wood-fired oven with sufficient thermal mass for entertaining and cooking large batches. I enjoy the whole wood-fired experience. Mrs. Bitonto Pizza is trying to get me to add a gas burner to my Subito Cotto 80 and I probably will soon. Smaller ovens have their place, even the Roccbox, which is tiny and only good for a 10” pizza can be great for picnics and camping!

[@vaporwareproducts]

DUDE STOP PLAYING AROUND WITH KIDS TOYS, ANY REAL OVEN OWNER KNOWS THESE ARE KNOCK OFFS OF REAL OVENS.

[@overnightclassic2]

@@vaporwareproducts No they are not. They are completely different designs and work in a completely different way. Is a pizza party 70x70 not a real oven because it is made of metal?

[@vaporwareproducts]

@@overnightclassic2 Dude are you kidding? Lets assume you don't have experience and are just popping off - so how are they not toys (with respect to a real wood fired oven)? Let me help here - real ovens need to retain heat by the use of thermal mass. This oven at less than 125 lbs DOES NOT HAVE IT. AES/Ceramic Wool insulation is NOT a replacement for refractory mortar. AES reflects heat, it doesnt hold heat. So with that being the only design, besides trying to cheat by rolling the exhaust over the top because you don't have enough thermal mass to hold the heat does not make it a good design. What it does is use lots of wood and looks god awful ugly, holy hell man...

[@overnightclassic2]

@@vaporwareproducts Ooni ovens and the like have SUPER low fuel usage compared to traditional brick ovens. Look how many BTU a zio ciro gas burner is (a lot) and how much gas a large oven like gozney dome or pizza party ardore which is much bigger than many zio ciro models use. The wood/gas usage to keep a zio ciro oven hot is way more than a smaller metal oven with a door. For example the pizza party ardore and carbon pizza oven are lower BTU than most ooni models even. And about 1/10 the btu of the Avanzini P2 which is a wasteful 110K BTU. Also pizza party larger models like 4 pizze or 70x70 with biscotto saputo floor bake really well. There are plenty of really expensive metal ovens that people use in their backyard. Metal is not the same as refractory brick but it bakes really well. The reason for steel as opposed refractory is the fact that it heats up much faster and cools down quicker. This is especially important if you are transporting the oven as it needs to be cool when you are moving it. An ooni oven heats up in 20 mins whereas a large oven heats up over the course of 4 hrs. That's too inconvenient for most users who need their oven to be hot/cool much quicker than that.

[@woodfiredovenmasonryphilip8485]

I can’t unsee you guys wrangling a snake at 0:20

[@BitontoPizza]

Thanks... believe it or not, those were trained professionals. One bite from those snakes can kill you!

[@craigmarlow6869]

Wood has not been to big an issue. I have a great source for free apple wood.

[@BitontoPizza]

What part of the world are you in? NW US based on the apple comment. Manuel, the importer of Zio Ciro in the US is in Florida and he uses the gas burner because he has a hard time finding wood that is sufficiently dry. How much wood do you use per cook?

[@craigmarlow6869]

One other thing. I found a great book called Mastering Pizza by Mark Vetri. It’s a f HD and changer!!!

[@BitontoPizza]

Awesome. I'll have to check out that book!

[@jayfabe]

I thought you were Bruce Pritchard.

[@BitontoPizza]

Lol. That poor dude has the great misfortune to look quite a bit like me... probably similar girth, too.

[@hotboxing87]

Ants on the wood ahhhhh lol

[@BitontoPizza]

I'm pretty sure those ants vaporize in the oven. We're in Texas. I prefer ants to pesticide on the wood 100%.

[@markogrba1]

Why did that snake make the final cut?!?

[@BitontoPizza]

I like the snake.

[@eda.2332]

Pizza sticking to a peel? Blow under it. It works

[@BitontoPizza]

That is a technique I use. Doesn't always work. Sometimes you have to do a bit more.

[@eda.2332]

@@BitontoPizza yes, of course. It was just a suggestion if it never came to mind.

[@jasonfeldmanis4186]

Aww, poor ants : (

[@BitontoPizza]

Not to mention the snakes! kzbin.info/www/bejne/jaarYYSol8-ja8k