#6 "Thanksgiving Day Massacre" Lions Dominate Packers | Top 10 Thanksgiving Day Moments | NFL Films

The Detroit Lions dominate the undefeated Green Bay Packers on Thanksgiving Day 1962.
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[@kenmcneillmusic1699]

The day I became a Lions fan. I was 7 years old. Been a fan ever since. The losing has been tiresome to say the least, however I’m grateful I got to see them play outdoors in the 60’s and early 70’s against many of the great players of that golden era when it was played on grass and outdoors for the most part. No complaints from me. Tickets were $7.50 for great upper deck seats at midfield.

[@Mourtzouphlos240]

Want to know who the Defensive Coordinator was for the Lions in that game? Don Shula. He got the Baltimore job largely on how the Lions did in this game.

[@patek9789]

Yeah and he was quite honestly the reason why the Lions were so good that year in 1962 because the Lions were the league average in terms of offense

[@GlennJackson-d8e]

I remember watching this game with my father and it made Thanksgiving a special day. I hated the Packers in those days and rooted for the Lions. What a day of celebration.

[@smilanesi98]

I think Lombardi was more angry because the schedule had the Packers going there every Thanksgiving up until 1964 when the Bears went. The home team usually has a preparation advantage. Lombardi barked to Rozelle and the owners and it was changed.

[@baketeach]

Roger Brown died today. He was my friend. Bart Starr and Deacon Jones both told me he should be in the Hall of Fame for Football. Merlin Olsen said to me that when he arrived on the LA RAMS in 1967 he transformed them into the BEST DEFENSE in NFL HISTORY. He replaced Rosie Grier who was not to shabby himself. He was a true gentleman. Starr also said that they were not worried about Karras. IT was ROGER they game planned agianst.

[@ldfreitas9437]

I remember that trade and I thought the Lions were stupid to make it. It didn't help the 49ers any. Reminds me in today's time of all these teams trading good players to the Dodgers at the trade deadline. I hate LA. BEAT LA is my mantra! GO SF, including GS Warriors now playing in SF like they did when they moved to there in '62 before going to that inferior city across the Bay.

[@smilanesi98]

I believe Roger went on to become a regional HR Director for McDonald's after football. Back in the early 80's he came to my store. I told him that I remembered how he sacked my childhood hero Bart Starr. He said, " I got to him a few times. "

[@jimstultz3345]

A guy as big and fast as Roger Brown with Alex Karras who had great moves playing along side him, they could overwhelm any offensive line when playing their best.

[@chrisuncleahmad]

Going into this game, Green Bay was not only 10-0 but had outscored their opponents 309-74

[@kevinflaherty6028]

Lions front four Darris Mccord,Alex Karras,Roger Brown,Sam Williams very formidable in 1962.

[@texasstadium]

And they traded Defensive End Bill Glass to Cleveland to acquire Milt Plum. Bill Glass may have been their best overall defensive lineman in 1961.@@kevinflaherty6028

[@quentin3330]

11 sacks. And Packers had a great line.

[@benapodacs7363]

We can remember this game 1962 Thanksgiving day🎉🎉🎉🎉 wow,!!

[@richardwilliams3229]

Wow i was 7 and huge packers fan..i remember the game..The lions stomped the packers. 11 sacks unbelievable

[@wilsire456]

The Lions defense had 5 Hall of Fame players starting. Lane, Schmidt, LeBeau, Lary, Karras Roger Brown shoud be number 6. Remember the great Joe Schmidt line after the 9-7 Loss? Hey Milt, run the ball three times and punt!!

[@SuspenseESCAPEremastered]

I watched this game live (yeah, I'm an old man now) Football was really tough, the 1960's Packers and Lions two best examples.

[@jimhardy7673]

I did as well, I remember sitting in my Grandmothers living room in Chicago watching the game all by myself !

[@SuspenseESCAPEremastered]

@@jimhardy7673 My dad hauled the TV into the dining room so as not to miss a play! My mom was "not pleased." Every Thanksgiving from then on, we ate later in the day!!!

[@mikeforte7585]

I officiate football today and todays players train better keep in shape all year round and eat better. todays players are bigger stronger and faster....some players have personal trainers...if todays players played under the rules of the 60s players would get hurt especially QBS ...what changed the game was money not the players..the owners are not going to pay the players big money only to have them sit because they are injured...so rules were changed for player safety...alot of the rule changes helped the offense put more points on the board to make the games more exciting for novice fan...I am old man and loved the games from the 60s but like everything esle nothing stays the same...

[@jimsweikata5571]

Saw the game on TV in our barracks at McGuire A.F.B. Was in the Navy; we had a transport squadron there (VR-6).

[@theredbaronlives9889]

Don Shula then 32 was Detroit lion DC in 1962.would be Colts HC the following year.

[@pkman53]

Packer fan here. First the famous Lombardi "What the hell's going on out here?" clip was actually taken on the Packer sidelines at Baltimore in 1967. Tough game that Johnny Unitas eventually pulled out in the waning moments with a TD pass to Willie Richardson. Now, as to the 1962 Thanksgiving Day game, yes the Lions had a magnificent afternoon while the Packers stunk up the joint. The Lions were an outstanding team in the early 60s but they were still a couple of notches below the Packers at that time. Remember, 1962 is still regarded by many as Lombardi's finest team from top of the roster to the bottom with several Hall of Famers (and Jerry Kramer who still should be in the Hall of Fame) in their primes. As Kramer once reflected on the Thanksgiving Day Massacre, "To the Lions, it was a tremendous victory and something they have celebrated every year for the past 50+ years. To us, it was a speed bump on our way to our second consecutive World Championship. And that was the difference between these two teams."

[@pkman53]

Dan Doyle. First, if you read my earlier comments, you know I had a very healthy respect for the 1962 Lions, especially the defense with Schmidt, Karras, Brown and the whole gang. They were a very, very good team. And, yes, the Lions could very well have beaten the Packers in their first meeting in Green Bay that year. It was a rainy, muddy afternoon which slowed down the offenses of both teams and turned it into an evenly matched defensive struggle. Milt Plum did throw the pass, however, and that's the kind of decision making that made Plum a good - not great - quarterback, certainly nowhere's near in the class of Bart Starr. After losing the Thanksgiving speed bump game, Green Bay went undefeated the rest of the way en route to a 13-1 record before beating the Giants for the second straight NFL Championship. The Lions were a very good team. The Packers were one of the greatest of all time in 1962. And don't short change Green Bay's defense. Every bit as good as Detroit's.

[@legend034]

If they had both finished 12-2, head to head would not have mattered as there was no tiebreak procedure at the time. There would have been a one game playoff for the conference title (like in 65). The Lions lost their final game of the year to the Giants, 3-0.

[@SuspenseESCAPEremastered]

I remember the Lions of the 60's as I was growing up - They were tough . . really tough . . They actually had a chance to win every game. I was born a Lions fan 'cause my family came from Detroit . . But think of this: MY ENTIRE LIFE of 59 years, I've been here to witness every game AFTER they last won a championship, but I've never seen 'em WIN a championship. I think they can win a title (I hope) before I die in 2034.

[@chrisuncleahmad]

If only the NFL had an expanded playoff.............

[@davidkaiser]

There's a mistake above. The Lions had lost to the Giants 17-14 earlier in the season. They lost that last 3-0 game to the Bears. The first Lions-Packers game in 1962 is immortalized in great detail in Lombardi's book, Run to Daylight. Plum had completed two third down passes in that last drive. However, it was crazy to try it again, because the Packers had already used all their time outs, or would have had to use their last one after a running play. Of course, if the Lions had won that game, the psychology going into Turkey Day would have been completely different. .

[@351charlie7]

For YEARS I've looked for highlights of the "Massacre" along with other vintage Lions films. Recently, great classic Lions Yearbooks are showing up but on only a couple of youtube channels, posted by those who don't even care about the Lions. The videos don't appear to even be monitored. Why can't I have them to post? I'd be one to appreciate them and present them with other interesting Lions info, plus I'd respond to commentary. I am 59 years old but unfortunately stuck on a fixed income due to disability, still, I'm a loyal lifetime Lions fan even though they've not won a championship in my lifetime. I've never bad-mouthed the Lions and have stuck with them no matter what. About once a decade I saved money to go to a game in person. Now I can't go see them at Ford Field because I can't afford it, but I COULD build a nice channel featuring The Lions! Why not give pride, care, and loyalty an opportunity? I'd LOVE to post classic Lions videos . . . I don't have any money but I have lots of TIME! How about it?

[@skeeterdoo4147]

I too have been a long, long, longtime Lions fan. I would also like to see some more old Lions games from the 60s & 70s (even some early 80s games with Billy Sims). Some are on KZbin (from the 70s & 80s), but they're few and far between. There's a '57 season review in color, but KZbin only has an 8-minute snippet of it. There's a '62 49ers yearbook on KZbin with extensive clips of their game in Detroit (which the Lions won), but not much else. It seems that when a good Lions game is posted on KZbin, somebody reports it and it's removed. I tried to see if the NFL sells copies of old games, but it doesn't appear that they do. As bleak as things have been since the '57 championship, they have had very good seasons ('62, '69, '70, '91 & 2014). I too would like to see extensive clips of the '62 Thanksgiving Day game but for some reason, there's a tight lid on it. Very odd.

[@birdhaus81]

@@skeeterdoo4147 Amen to you both. I was 10 years old when this game was played, and just beginning a lifetime of Lions fandom, which, of course, nobody seems to understand. Growing up in Iowa City, my dad taught at the University of Iowa, and Karras was a very well known and colorful Hawkeye. I was just barely too young to go to the games with Dad, but I reveled in the stories he would tell about Karras' exploits. After reading Plimpton's Paper Lion, seeing the movie, and then noticing on the liner notes that Lem Barney and Mel Farr did backup vocals on Marvin Gaye's What's Goin' On, I was seriously hooked for life. Learning later that Marvin Gaye seriously wanted to try out for the Lions, guaranteeing that if they would just let him touch the ball he'd score a TD every time, (thank you coach Joe Schmidt for probably saving his neck by saying no) the legend of both is all the greater. There's no team more routinely ignored, and none needs a modern era championship more. Go Lions!

[@ethansprague2005]

I'm not a lions fan but that sounds fun

[@jerrysims6551]

They worried about both.

[@CowSaysMooMoo]

It seems no one has answered your question. I will. Because the law says you need to OWN the content to post it, and you don't.

[@JohnnylMr]

Great analysis. The commentators captured the game perfectly.

[@shakeandjake_1]

Lombardi definitely gave the entire team a -2 that day 😂

[@JustWinBabee]

The question was asked as to why the Lions didn't beat Green Bay more often. They had them beat earlier in the season in Green Bay 7 - 6, but Milt Plum opted to pass when he should have run the ball and punt if they had to. The receiver fell down and Herb Adderley intercepted. He returned the ball all the way to the Detroit 18 yard line and Paul Hornung made a chip shot field goal to win the game for Green Bay. The Lion defenders never forgave Milt Plum for calling the pass play. They believed there was no way Green Bay would score from so deep in their own territory. Yale Lary was the best punter in the league and was guaranteed to bury the Packers deep in their own zone. The Lions were convinced that they were a better team than the Packers in 1962. They ended up that season 11 - 3 and had to settle for the second place Playoff Bowl in Miami, where they beat the Browns. The Lions have never lost so few games in a season since.

[@elevatorelliot714]

Justwinbaby if the Lions won that game both teams would have been 12-2 with the Lions getting the tie breaker

[@JustWinBabee]

@@elevatorelliot714 - There would have been a one game playoff where the Lions likely would have been favored. This happened in 1965 when the Packers beat the Colts in a one game playoff.

[@JustWinBabee]

Looking at the video again, Adderley intercepted because his coverage was outstanding. The return was for so long because Barr fell down after Adderley had the ball, clear sailing ahead and Barr was too far back after falling down. Coach George Wilson told his defense that HE called the pass but they weren't buying it. "It was a dumbazz call" said Joe Schmidt, and he felt that it cost them the game and the Conference Championship.

[@elevatorelliot714]

@@JustWinBabee oh yeah you’re right because they’re both 12-2. As a Lions fan wouldn’t have the Packers probably won Like I feel like Vince Lombardi would’ve made adjustments or like sent his team a Powerful speech

[@elevatorelliot714]

@@JustWinBabee Yeah It was a terrible call

[@afvet5075]

Every dog has his day.

[@matthewcorder2188]

The announcer was wrong in saying Paul Hornung was stopped in that game,since He was out with an injury and didnt play.

[@ldfreitas9437]

Hornung had a habit of getting hurt in games and having Tom Moore come in an replace him. Happened in the '60 championship game against the winning Eagles. Too bad it didn't happen three weeks earlier when Hornung destroyed the 49ers, or they'd have been in that championship game instead.

[@willardconway6267]

Awesome. Loved the lions at that time. They played with heart.

[@JohnSmith-op1tc]

Joe Horrigan's final question, "Why didn't the Detroit Lions beat the Green Bay Packers more often?" Can easily be answered by two responses, "They had been bought by the Ford Family by this time" and "They ARE the Lions!"

[@NuRm69]

untrue the Lions were bought by the fords on November 22nd, 1963...the same day Kennedy got assassinated.

[@mach6893]

The first response is more telling. The Ford Family drove the Lions into the ground.

[@JustWinBabee]

The difference was at quarterback. Bart Starr was light-years better than anyone the Lions had.

[@freedomthefreeman487]

Before 62’ the Packers had won 3 NFL Championship games and the Lions had won 4. The Lions owned the Pack back then.

[@Schmjac8]

@@freedomthefreeman487 Yet they couldn't do anything after that.

[@michaelbyrne8860]

1960's Black & Blue Division got that name for a reason! Detroit had a good Team especially the Defense front line! Whoever won that division would be playing for the Championship! The League had fewer teams packed with better talented football players! Not athletes! That didn't happen until the cowboys drafted Bob Hayes! Detroit started the Thanksgiving football tradition! Now everyone (Dallas) was to be on TV Thanksgiving! I love seeing Alex Karras playing a great DT and a real character! Loved his Sports Show!

[@88mike42]

It's not that the Packer line didn't know how to react (1:49). It's just that they were outplayed that day.

[@davidbrooks299]

Gary Danielson cornerback Detroit Lions

[@mach6893]

That was back when the Lions were an elite team. Before WCF drove the team into the ground.

[@JustWinBabee]

@@davidbrooks299 - Huh?

[@freedomthefreeman487]

Before 62’ the Packers had won 3 NFL Championship games and the Lions had won 4. The Lions owned the Pack back then.

[@silverguard8105]

Hardly. The Lions owned the 50s when the Packers were absolutely terrible.

[@Zack29810]

lol, and now the packers have won 4 superbowls and the lions haven’t even played in one.

[@BriBryBriBry]

@@Zack29810 yeah we all know that we’re talking about the lions in the early days.. must’ve hurt you a bit to have to mention that so randomly.. I’m guessing you’re a Packers fan.

[@ldfreitas9437]

Alex Karras was totally pissed off at Milt Plum for throwing that interception late in the Packer game earlier in the season, in the 9-7 loss to GB. I remember watching this game on the TV. In particular, Night Train Lane's interception, wearing 81 as a DB (some DBs then wore numbers in the 80s, as some LBs wore numbers in the 30s), stands out to me, because of his name.

[@paesano285]

Best Thanksgiving Day Game ever!! Roger Brown was THE MAN!!

[@JustWinBabee]

The worst game of Fuzzy Thurston's career. Thurston was an outstanding athlete, having also played basketball at Valparaiso. Kramer, Gregg, Ringo and Skoronski all had a rough time that afternoon. Even elite O-Lines have bad days.

[@Fireyninjadog]

The lions the next year, despite going 5-8-1, denied the packers from the nfl championship with a 13-13 tie in Detroit

[@JustWinBabee]

Also, it was this game that prompted Lombardi to get the league to schedule some other team to play on Thanksgiving in Detroit. The Packers had played in this game several years in a row up to that time. Lombardi was a man of routine and he never liked how playing a Thursday game upset that routine. He never played on Thanksgiving again.

[@ldfreitas9437]

The West and East Conferences had two games against teams from the other conference, and two against each conference foe home and away. Baltimore Colts always played the Washington Redskins for one of their inter-conference matches. That all changed in 1967 when the league was re-arranged into multiple divisions. Until the Chicago Cardinals moved to Saint Louis in 1960, the Bears played the Cards each year, as the Chi-Cards were put the East from the West in 1950 with the 3 AAFC teams added to the league.

[@stephenkammerling9479]

I think Packers played in Thanksgiving game the following year in 1963. Game ended in a tie. Since then Lions have had different opponents every year or close to that.

[@jkdm7653]

Right you are! The Packers had been the regular "guest" in Detroit on Thanksgiving Day for years.@@stephenkammerling9479

[@itzwill_101]

Dang look at Night Train man, such a inspiration

[@BriBryBriBry]

Straight killer

[@jerrysims6551]

Best game ever.

[@Lions400]

1969 detroit fans Bobby lanes:finna open up a can of whoop that packer ass yea I like it

[@brendanables7367]

This was my absolute favorite show as a kid

[@Valicroix]

I watched this game on TV as a kid. Talk about a shock.

[@joea4501]

GREAT !! 🏈🦁🥳

[@LindaMerchant-bq2hp]

The lions in every thanksgiving day hame perennial favorites

[@sportshistorybuff319]

But greatness is defined by performance over a season, and the Lions did not keep up with the consistent greatness of GB over 14 games. This was their title game. Strange that this Packer team was its best but only beat the Giants 16-7 in the championship, whereas the supposedly inferior 1961 team wiped the Giants out 37-0. The lone Packer loss here was similar to the 1984 49ers and 1985 Bears losing one obligatory contest to get it out of their system and guard against complacency, before inevitably winning it all. An undefeated record is a curse, albatross or bullseye come playoff time.

[@kevinflaherty6028]

another major drubbing in Detroit in 1969of Western champion LA Rams ,I believe 20 -0 ,if they just were more consistent back then.

[@michaelleroy9281]

28-0

[@kevinflaherty6028]

@@michaelleroy9281 okay, it was kind of an upset Rams were playoff team then,but never played good in cold weather.

[@willardconway6267]

The where agile, hostile and mobile.

[@davidm4160]

lions blew a 7 to 6 lead with less than two minutes remaining? Really?

[@davee164]

Who won the 1962 Title? Certainly not the Lions!

[@JustWinBabee]

Need you ask?

[@freedomthefreeman487]

Before 62’ the Packers had won 3 NFL Championship games and the Lions had won 4. The Lions owned the Pack back then.

[@Schmjac8]

@@freedomthefreeman487 What have the lions done since then? They certainly haven't caught a whiff of a super bowl.

[@Zack29810]

@@freedomthefreeman487 yeah, and ketchup used to come in glass bottles.

[@BriBryBriBry]

@@Schmjac8they are talking about back then you moron.. and you know that. We all know how the lions have been in the modern.. dur

[@tanakasigauke5596]

Talk about lockdown D..

[@JustWinBabee]

Still remember the defense. DEs Williams and McCord, tackles Karras and Brown. Linebackers Schmidt, Brettschneider and Walker. The four Ls in the backfield. Corners LeBeau and Lane, Safties Lary and Lowe.

[@allenmurray7893]

Didn't need the commentary, just the highlights.

[@Lions400]

Bobby lyane:ha green bay actors!!!!!!!!!

[@Head318Hunter]

26-14 ?? They're all talking like it was 66-14. 🤔

[@ernestboykin3rd706]

Lol right man smh

[@JustWinBabee]

It may as well been 66-14. The game was never close. If Lombardi were alive, he'd agree.

[@Gungho73]

"Going into this game, Green Bay was not only 10-0 but had outscored their opponents 309-74" was a comment I saw posted elsewhere. To not only win but win so convincingly that the Lombardi era Packers had garbage time TD's to make the score not look so lopsided is a big deal. 11 sacks on that team and shutting down that run game is pretty difficult.

[@Zack29810]

@@JustWinBabee you can’t say “the game was never close” when 26-14 was the final score. that just sounds dumb.

[@andyjackson4505]

It was 26-0 before the Packers scored 2 4th quarter TDs.

[@jerrysims6551]

Does anyone have a video of this entire game or at least highlights?

[@graciemaemarie11jones16]

green bay won championship....16-7 over ny giants...... lions?

[@freedomthefreeman487]

Before 62’ the Packers had won 3 NFL Championships and the Lions had won 4. The Lions owned the Pack back then.

[@jkdm7653]

One of Detroit's 3 losses that season was at NY, 14-7.They beat the Browns in the postseason "Runner-Up Bowl". The Lions only weak point that season was their offense.

[@mach6893]

@@freedomthefreeman487 The Lions owned the Pack until WCF bought the Lions.

[@mikebradshaw6484]

The deal was finalized on November 22nd, 1963.@@mach6893

[@CaptainCookie18]

fuck me this could happen to the cowboys

[@CaptainCookie18]

expect to the redskins tomorrow fuck

[@pauljohnson3340]

It can happen to any team at any time, regardless of who is playing.

[@MichaeIGames]

Why do all the players back then look like they were 40/50 yrs old?

[@JStarStar00]

Michael Games: Smoking. Heavy exposure to smoke every day ages your skin, gives you the worn out and haggard look, also impedes blood flow which creates "smokers circles" under the eyes and makes everybody look older.

[@jimhardy7673]

The cold weather ages everybody.

[@steverhodesvideos6244]

I think it's because they weren't paid nearly as much as players today. In fact some players worked regular jobs in the off season to make ends meet.

[@JustWinBabee]

Three reasons: 1) Players are much faster today. 2) The games were played in the elements much more often and on real grass. This was before artificial turf was invented. 3) At that time, the best athletes still played baseball. This changed in the 1970s with the growth of the NFL and the NBA.

[@scottreed8985]

@@JustWinBabee players are much faster, resulting in looking younger? Hmm... Most NFL fields are made of real grass today and are outdoors. Being a superior athlete doesn't make one younger looking. The most plausible explanation is smoking.

[@jkdm7653]

That same weekend, on Sunday evening, CBS-TV's "60 Minutes" featured a segment on this game called "Bad Day in Green Bay".

[@mikebradshaw6484]

60 Minutes didn't come on TV until '67.

[@jkdm7653]

@@mikebradshaw6484 60 Minutes premiered in '68, so you are more accurate than I, Mike. I definitely remember a network news show featuring the story of that game shortly afterward, but it couldn't have been 60 Minutes! Anyone remember?

[@cisco55100]

It was shown the next night on CBS at 9:30 on a show called "Eyewitness To History" hosted by Walter Cronkite. i remember watching it.@@jkdm7653

[@jakemitchell8105]

If they were winning 43-0 at half how was the final score 26-14

[@jakemitchell8105]

Never mind it was 23-0 at half

[@JustWinBabee]

@@jakemitchell8105 - That's OK. It may as well have been 43-0.The Packers were NOT going to win that game.

[@rabbitt83]

What people don’t remember Was that after winning the NFL Championship the packers went 6-0 In the pre season so they had won 17 straight, that was when coach’s played to win, pre and regular season not like today, if the lions did not win on thanksgiving the packs would have been the first team to go undeafeated And no Miami did not go undefeated The Detroit Lions beat them at Tiger stadium in the preseason I was there and I was at Tiger stadium for the 62 thanksgiving game

[@JustWinBabee]

That was the first game of the exhibition season that year. A meaningless game. FWIW, the Lions were 4-0 in preseason the year they went 0-16. Pre-season means nothing. Miami DID go undefeated when it counted.

[@Zack29810]

Robert, no one cares about preseason. its closer to practice than it is to an actual game.

[@BriBryBriBry]

@@Zack29810 you must be under 25 I’m guessing.. in those days the Packers wanted to win every preseason game also.. why wouldn’t they? You can act like it took place today, but it didn’t. It was a different time. He added the Packers preseason wins in with the others probably because it is such an outstanding number of wins in a row even with those few preseason games. Bet you they were still trying to rip each other’s heads off. Obviously I could be wrong about you being younger but coming in here and just comparing it to modern day. It’s just stupid and you did it without even thinking about it I’m sure. Very annoying. Wouldn’t mind going a couple rounds with the Oklahoma drill with you sunny boy!

[@BriBryBriBry]

@@JustWinBabee another idiot, comparing modern times to the good old days of football. In those days the Packers wanted to win even every single preseason game. I mean, don’t you know the mentality and the grittiness of those men back then! So many of those players refused to lose even in preseason because I heard it before not in today’s NFL, but back in the day yes.

[@mikebradshaw6484]

Preseason doesn't count for nothing.

[@davidalaniz2959]

I hate the packers and the lions

[@JustWinBabee]

You must be either a Bears or a Vikings fan. My bet is Chicago.

[@freedomthefreeman487]

@@JustWinBabee true. Vikings don’t hate anybody. They’re just happy to be in the division. 😜

[@Zack29810]

@@freedomthefreeman487 nah, vikings fans hate the packers a lot.