$600 vs $6000 APO telescope??? Are the premium refractors worth it?

[@Pollix780]

put myself on the wait list for the TEC APO140FL. Have it in mind as my "forever" scope, to keep for decades to come. Have a CEM70G mount for *AP* and practicing with a Vixen VC200L. Appreciate you talking about the TEC scopes, your written review is are one of the few reviews that even acknowledge their existence. The spotlight of refractors on Videos/Forums usually fall only on Astro-Physics, Takahashi, or CFF scopes. But I'm glad TEC gets some recognition

[@AVTAstro]

I'd be more than happy if the TEC 140 way my forever scope. You won't regret it!

[@southernexposure123]

Thanks for the video and especially the price comparisons vs percent difference in performance. That was all very informative and helpful.

[@AVTAstro]

Glad to hear you found it useful!

[@najibnajjar9526]

Thank you for the great comparison 😄

[@AVTAstro]

My pleasure!

[@lcxt9]

My 102 svx stellervue perform as good as my 130 astrophysic scope. But my 102 access stellrrvue lags behind my other two scopes. Thanks for the video.

[@AVTAstro]

Hey, if I'm not mistaking the new SVX's have optics that are made right here in the USA(CA) by Vic and crew. Not surprised that they perform on par with the other high end APO's!

[@sandb1867]

@@AVTAstro Watch the SV video. They grind and polish blanks and then test in-house to get >.98 Strehl ratio objectives.

[@HollomanUFOLanding]

Hey Vlad, thanks for another great upload. Have you had any experience with Stellarvue refractors? I was thinking of getting either a SVX140 OR SVX152 and wondered if you had an opinion on Stellarvue optics? I like that they're made in the USA and Stellarvue seem to pay a lot of attention to getting their lenses and tubes into precise fit and finish. Thanks.

[@AVTAstro]

I have had at least 5 Stellarvues. They are great scopes, and I also LOVE that they are a USA based company that are not making scopes and optics here. I unfortunately do not have any first hand experience with the SVX line but I'm 99% sure its every bit as good as the AstroPhysics 130GT and Tax FSQ-106 that I do currently use!

[@HollomanUFOLanding]

@@AVTAstro Thanks that's good to know :)

[@aemrt5745]

As a strictly visual astronomer (have no plans to image), I am looking into an 80 to 100mm refractor. Main targets would be DSOs. Is an Apo worth it in my case? How much of a difference would I notice visually on DSOs with a quality Achro?

[@AVTAstro]

I'd recommend checking out my video on the achro vs APO. Unless your using very low powers I'd go APO. If this will be your only scope and your primary interest is DSO I'd really concider a 6-8" SCT or 8-12" dob.

[@aemrt5745]

@@AVTAstro Thanks for the recommendations. I should have mentioned I have an 8in f/6 Newt and the Orion 12in goto dob on order. I am also building a TeleVue eyepiece collection and wanted to buy a refractor for wide field DSO viewing (such as the Veil Nebula) that could make the most of those eyepieces and be a grab and go scope (it is easier to fit a smallish refractor on a camping trip or road trip with my wife!).

[@AVTAstro]

In the case that you will have a 12" dob, I would probobly do a 102mm ED doublet. That way you have the wide field covered and you can use it as an excellent planetary/grab and go scope👍

[@janelubenskyi1177]

Please at what quality level do you consider the Skywatcher Esprit 120?

[@AVTAstro]

I personally do not have experience with the scope. From what I hear they are great optical quality.

[@entropytango5348]

I had the Tak TOA130, an amazing scope but without a permanent setup it was just too dangerous to carry around in the dark and often wet. Best optics but I don't trust my clumsiness. I was lucky enough to replace it with an Astro-Physics Star 12 ED at what I think is half the weight. I think the best scope is the one you use most often. Strangely in my case that's an old SW 80ED from the early 2000's. Not even a 2 speed focuser. But it shines because it is so light and you don't worry about damage. Painted Tak Epilom yellow for the theme. Another great vid!

[@AVTAstro]

Thanks!

[@TylerMillhouse]

Great video! How much improvement should I expect moving up from an ed doublet if I image in mono and focus each color separately? I also have an astronomik l3 filter which clips the uv and ir fairly aggressively.

[@AVTAstro]

Hey Tyler, this question is a bit out of my expertise. From that I know though if imaging in mono with aggressive filters you will not see too much of an improvement by going with a triplet.

[@TylerMillhouse]

@@AVTAstro Thanks! I probably cant afford that now anyway so I am glad it probably isn't going to hurt me.

[@lornaz1975]

What is your opinion of the Tele Vue 85 vs the Vixen ED 81S (The Japanese version not the Chinese ED80SF) ? What tier would you place each of them, mid or premium?

[@AVTAstro]

Well I have owned two TV-85's so very familiar with the scope(check out my review on my blog). Build quality they are premium, nut use a relatively rudimentary 1-speed focuser(unless you buy the latest version). Optics wise they are sharp but are quite dated in the color correction department. Never used the Vixen so cannon comment on it directly. From what I understand they source glass from the same place as Taks so it should be good. Overall I would say that both are a good mid range scope.

[@lornaz1975]

@@AVTAstro ED Ting did a review on the Vixen and he seems to like it thus the reason I ask. It is cheaper than the tele Vue. From what you say if I am not mistaken it sounds like you consider the Tele Vue 85 to be a mid range scope and that the Vixen might have better color correction. I your opinion how would the Tele Vue 85's color correction compare to say an Orion/Vixen/Skywatcher 80ED, the F7.5 80ED?

[@AVTAstro]

Don't tell this to TV owners but awesome as the scopes might be the optics on them are really not better than most of the current Chinese scopes. 20 years ago there was just no alternative to the TV scopes.

[@lornaz1975]

@@AVTAstro Sounds like the Vixen might be the better choice then. Thanks!

[@Mandragara]

I have a 6" f/5 dob as a travel scope. I've never had the chance to look through a refractor but I'd like to try sometime to compare!

[@AVTAstro]

Yeah it's fun to compare scopes!

[@neilhankey2514]

I'm lucky enough to have 3x TAK's. Two were bought new when I worked in Japan and the other secondhand. Takahashi = Quality Build, Quality Optics and more quality than anyone really needs. They are built like tanks, over engineered. Furthermore, they hold their value not that I will be selling mine anytime soon. already made that mistake and will not be repeating it.

[@AVTAstro]

Yup Take makes a good scope!

[@TevisC]

I love my Astrotech AT80EDT for ap. $799! You should have had a budget triplet in the comparison. My photos do not have any CA, stars are tight.

[@AVTAstro]

Actualy planning on doing a video on several price range scopes! But great to hear that your scope is performing so well!

[@Balataone]

Nice video! I am new to this and I really like the idea of getting a refractor for super high-quality visual astronomy. The argument on all these forums seems to be the bigger aperture equals better viewing. If I can purchase 120 mm refractor, can I not then just use a 2x Barlow lens to get the focal length needed for some deep space viewing? I am trying to accomplish getting one telescope that does it all. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Cheers, Phil P.S. I am not likely to do high end Astro photography but may like to take a picture or two in the future…

[@AVTAstro]

Hi, funny that you should ask because I'm planning my next video around the subject of "if I could only own 1 scope"! Beck to your question. Usually the bigger the aperture yes the bigger the view. And you are correct that you can get a bigger view with a 2x Barlow or in fact just with a shorter focal length eyepiece. Issue is that when you increase the magnification the image brightness goes down. A high quality refractor will be an awesome scope, but do keep in mind that it can only be as awesome as a 120mm can be(I say this owning the best 102mm and 130mm in the world. Amazing scopes but still only a 4" and 5"!). If you are more into looking at the moon and planets 120mm might be all that you need. If you are more into smaller deep sky objects than in all honesty you are very likely to want a larger scope eventually. The best solution is honestly not 1 scope. Its at least 2!!! 1 wide field, like a 80mm-102mm APO and the other a light bucket(8"+) for the small stuff!!!

[@Balataone]

@@AVTAstro I really wanted to buy a big APO as my “do all” scope… so your answer stinks! 😉 I’ve been searching for the answer for a while now and I appreciate yours, it makes a lot of sense! I guess my first might have to be a 9.25 edge HD (for good light grab). Thank you very much, love your videos! 👍🔭

[@AVTAstro]

Lol, glad it was helpful👍 And believe me I wish I could own one scope that will do it all. Unfortunately I'm usually at 6+ scopes🤣🤣🤣 But I do think its pretty obvius that I have a scope problem😃🤣🤣🤣

[@Balataone]

@@AVTAstro hi Vlad, this telescope bizzo is crazy! Every time I start researching one type of scope… another one pops up!! Now I’m looking at Skywatcher Mak-Newts!!! 🤣 Do you think much of these, or is the Edge HD line pretty good for almost everything? It’s a big purchase and I don’t want to make a mistake!! Cheers, Phil

[@AVTAstro]

Don't have any experience with the Skywatchers. I will say that i have owned 2 Edge-HD scopes and they both had some of the best non refractor optics out there. I dont think you can go wrong with one. Also do remember that your not getting married to the scope. You can just sell it if it does not suit you or just add to the collection!

[@zamorskymisa]

Hi. I own TS Photoline APO 80/560. How would you rate it ...?

[@AVTAstro]

Never owned that scope so cant comment on it directly. Overall its a doublet that is well color corrected at f/7 with FPL53 glass. Id say it should be similar to William Optics scopes from what I gather of the TS brand. At the end of the day it really does not mater what I think of the scope, as long as your happy with its performance!

[@judechopper]

it wont slip if you just tighten the adjuster that tightens the focusing, they are great for budget.

[@AVTAstro]

You are correct. You would also not be able to adjust the focuser if you made it tight enough to not slip. Not saying its a bad budget option for light loads. But its never going to be a Moonlite/FeatherTouch.

[@JoeJaguar]

i tested a 102 mm Tak tsa last years against a skywatcher 100mm ED F/9 and i found the difference was big i would say 25% at least, and the SW is a doublet 53 at about $1400 with tax. I guess the espirit model would come closer to the tak but its aproaching the same price. anyway nice vid cherrs

[@AVTAstro]

Good to hear another data point! At f/9 the color correction on the Skywatcher should have been pretty good. Sharpness of the overall optics are certainly hit and miss on the low end import scopes. A few years ago I owned a Lunt 102ED and the optics where quite soft for a refractor... Vlad.

[@JoeJaguar]

@@AVTAstro yes true and my dual speed focuser broke after 1st use it wouldnt work after that too i sold off the scope soon after

[@Robin-Visser]

C’mon. Admit it. Your heart rate went x3 when you smashed that dewshield with your ring

[@AVTAstro]

Lol, you noticed that huh? No harm to the Tak thankfully!😁

[@lornaz1975]

Vlad. Would you say that a William Optics 120mm telescope would generally speaking have better optics than say an Orion 130 or ES 127? This is concerning visual use not asltrophotograpy. I am not sure if the Orion 115/130 or ES 127 would fall in the entry level or mid level.

[@AVTAstro]

Overall I would say the the build on the WO is certainly better. Optics wise I think you might have a higher chance of getting a better sample with WO but it's still kind of luck of the draw. WO is my favorite non premium brand though👍

[@lornaz1975]

@@AVTAstro Thanks. Just one more question. How much more advantage do you think the 127 aperture vs 120 would have on the image?

[@AVTAstro]

7mm is not very much. Quite honestly I'd be surprised if anyone but the most advanced user would notice any difference in a blind test of the two.

[@lornaz1975]

@@AVTAstro Thanks Vlad. I decided to go with the WO.

[@tasosxenos9593]

Congratulations on your good work! I am a beginner and you have helped me to understand a lot of things. I would like you to suggest a telescope Refractor and a mount which I need to observe the sky. Thank you in advance

[@tasosxenos9593]

Sorry refractor telescope for observation only What about William optics zenithstar 73 ii

[@AVTAstro]

I'd be glad to help! Are you looking to do visual use or astrophotography? Also what is your budget?

[@tasosxenos9593]

@@AVTAstrothank you for your time I am searching for 5 months now. My first choice was to buy dob 8, after celestron se 8 and after your video I decided to buy a refractor i want to do visual only So far l have binoculars 10×50. I like to explore and find targets in the sky. I live 1 hour away from the city. And I will observe only at weekends for 3 hours because I have 3 kids And I am interested in deep sky My budget is neither for the best one nor for the beginner's. I would prefer sth in the middle. I would appreciate your opinion and knowledge. Thank you in advance. 🇬🇷🇬🇷🇬🇷

[@AVTAstro]

William Scopes are quite nice! For visual I would not do the 73mm if it was my only or first scope. I would really wok on picking up a ~102mm model. At that aperture size I feel you will be satisfied with the views that it provides you with of the planets/deep sky as your only scope but still small enough to grab-and-go(even if later you do add a 8"+ scope).

[@tasosxenos9593]

@@AVTAstro Thank you very much for your help. The one you suggested is a brilliant idea.

[@Alucard400]

you did not mention the major feature of the other scopes why they perform the way they do. the FSQ106 Takahashi is a Quadruplet, (4 lens) which flattens the field with that 4th lens while the triplet tightens the stars and your images will have brighter but also tight stars with the HDR contrast. A televue Quadruplet will perform similarly well. That's a HUGE difference to a doublet and a major advantage to even a triplet. What you pay for a Takahashi is the workmanship where most scopes are performing at 98% or more. You get what you pay for while other brands will have a variation in the manufacturing and workmanship. Pick up a Skywatcher or some other brand and the scopes will be sometimes luck of the draw on fitment, finish and performance.

[@AVTAstro]

I agree.

[@dedskin1]

i would like to see a comparison between these

[@AVTAstro]

That scopes are you referring to? The FSQ-106 and AT 72ED?

[@peterdonnelly1074]

That was great. Many thanks.

[@AVTAstro]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@johnbarry5036]

hope you can answer a Q. If comparing an entry ED frac (say, SvBony) of 80 and 102mm, will the average person (not you) notice the difference? Say you got both scopes pointed at the same target with the same magnification on the city sidewalk. You grab a bunch of random ppl to look at both. Will most struggle to find any difference or do u think most would say, oh yeah, this is much brighter and sharper!

[@AVTAstro]

If you grabbed some people off the street that have never looked through a scope I don't think they would see a difference between a premium APO and SVBony at first look. Now if I spent a few minutes with them and told them for the differences to look for I think they would see them. If it was an APO vs Achro on the moon or planets they would be able to see the difference right off the bat!

[@dionisiochavez9570]

I previously owned TV 85 and Tak FS102. They were good scopes but my TMB 105/650 is way more sharp and contrasty. I got my TMB in 2005 and still have it :)

[@AVTAstro]

Yeah from what I hear the TMB's are amazing scopes. LOMO is kind of in the same league and as far as I can gather uses the same glass. In all honesty the SV4 102mm LOMO that I had had the best optics of any APO I have owned including the TEC 140 and 110...

[@skyemac8]

Okay, buy a Dobsonian or a Newtonian with a good mount. Don’t depend on several glass lenses which are flawed or ridiculously expensive. And no chromatic aberration with the Dobsonians.

[@AVTAstro]

Different tools for different jobs!👍

[@Do-UR-Research2749]

You mention Sky Watcher as a bottom tier brand. You calling all of the Sky Watcher line to include the Esprit model line bottom tier?

[@AVTAstro]

I have never used a Esprit so cannot comment on one. I'm sure they are a fine scope. Brand wise I was just making very general categorys oh how they stack up. In the car world I would concider Kia a bottom tier brand but they also make some very high end models. At the end of the day it's still a Kia and will never be an S Class Mercedes.

[@Do-UR-Research2749]

@@AVTAstro and a S-Class Mercedes will never be a Ford GT. Ford makes the Feista and the Feists will never be a S-Class Mercedes. The point is that one manufacture can produce all ranges of quality products.

[@slapastronomy8646]

I would rate the APM scopes running the LZOS triplet lenses higher than the TECs. Most are pushing .98 strehl. The LZOS lenses were designed by Tom Back (TMB). I have never seen or used their new doublet line (not LZOS lenses) so that may be a consideration for rating those scopes. The LOMO lenses - both doublets and triplets are excellent. Otherwise I agree with your assessment. Good video.

[@AVTAstro]

I have personally not used a LZOS scope before but I have had 3 LOMOs. From what I understand they both use the same glass and are comperable. I would 100% agree that the Russian optics are world class. Very, very good!

[@johnbarry5036]

Lol, the Starbucks analogy is genius.

[@AVTAstro]

Yup, its all about choices. Obviously this is not a life coach channel. Lol. But most folks can afford way more then they think. Issue is that for most of us it requires sacrifice and the Starbucks is just one good example for a lot of people.

[@Z-add]

Isn't televue a premium brand?

[@AVTAstro]

It is in eyepieces. Scopes wise they are right up there construction wise. Optics are no better on them then any modern ED doublet(with the exception of the NP-xxx models).

[@johnrobinson4445]

Cost of ownership of a Takahashi is approximately ZERO if you sell it anytime. The mid-tier will lose 30-50% of their value. So, unless you keep it forever, the Takahashi is cheaper.

[@AVTAstro]

Hey John, really depends on if your talking about buying new. You really don't loose money on any scope(besides maybe shipping witch I concider kind of like the "rental fee") if you buy it used at a decent price.

[@MarkMphonoman]

I think Astro-Tech will take exception to your calling their scopes entry level. Lol. Also, I don’t recall where you said Tele Vue fits in your category of scopes? Ps. I also agree with your basic philosophy that you should spend as much as possible to get a better scope.

[@AVTAstro]

I will admit that I have not looked into this 100% but as far as I know Astro-Tech is made in China by Santa the same company making any of the other entry lever refractors on the marker. That's not saying they are bad, but...

[@Astronurd]

@@AVTAstro Synta

[@EleanorPeterson]

6:56 ...... 💥 Ouch! 🤪 😁

[@Z-add]

So Takahashi isn't the king. The best of the best?

[@AVTAstro]

I think that most would agree that Astrophysics holds that title.

[@mrmaxaxl]

Wow! you must be a millionaire 😃

[@AVTAstro]

I wish that was a fact, unfortunately it's fiction. Lol

[@mrmaxaxl]

@@AVTAstro :) Anyway I am happy for you and your nice hobby! I own a couple of binoculars and spotting scopes myself. Love watching birds, boats, nature and the night sky! So much to explore. The main thing is having fun :) Keep up the good and informative work! Cheers!

[@AVTAstro]

Thaaks for the support, I really appreciate it!!!

[@dankahraman354]

Smokers and drinkers will spend even more and not even think of quitting. My hobby will neither impoverish me nor kill me.

[@AVTAstro]

Lol, indeed. Kind of the point I was trying to make in the video but using coffee as an example...

[@cemoguz2786]

Nice flex sir. I would do the same.

[@AVTAstro]

👍

[@traveler7249]

Blog needs a "Subscribe" button.

[@AVTAstro]

Are you talking about a youtube subscribe button?

[@sandb1867]

"Star" bucks. Whether, coffee or scopes. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

[@AVTAstro]

Lol👍

[@deepspaceexplorer4265]

Here is the real question: sure the APO is better. But is it $5400 better? ABSOLUTELY NOT A well made $600 "budget" refractor is nothing to sneeze at...

[@AVTAstro]

Yes sir. The point of the video is not to say that it is $5400 better. The point is that there are a LOT of people with the $600 scope and wonder how it compares to that shinny $6000 one👍Since I owned both why not do the comparison? Would you not?

[@GaryP747]

Better than Starbucks! 🦾🦾😍😍😎😎

[@AVTAstro]

Lol