644 Days Without a Government: Belgiums Complex Politics Explained - TLDR News

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It's been over 600 days since Belgium had a government, yep that's right no government for approaching two years. In this video we discuss the issues that Belgium faces and how the countries history deeply impacts the countries politics and future.
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1 - www.bbc.com/news/world-europe...
2 - europarl.europa.eu/election-r...
3 - ec.europa.eu/growth/tools-dat...

[@TLDRnewsEU]

I know we addressed this in the video, but there's still a bunch of people talking about it, so on the HAI thing. We are absolutely aware that HAI released a video on this exact topic only a couple of days ago. We started work on this video on August 20th and the script was finalised on August 26th, so in no way we did we steal anything from HAI - the script was locked down way before that video came out. Regardless we contemplated not putting this video out, as we were concerned that people would be done with this topic having seen the HAI video. However, we decided that ultimately out video takes a very difficult approach from Sam's. I don't mean this as an insult to the HAI video at all (I have been subscribed for a very long time and watch most HAI and Wendover video) but those videos tend to only lightly touch on each topic. They give you a brief overview of a topic in a few minutes to give you a starting point if you want to research further. Our video is that further research. As a politics channel and with a political audience we can take 10 minutes to explain the complexities of Belgium's political system which just isn't possible for HAI. Ultimately I hope you enjoy both videos and as much as we were sad to see our topic taken days before posting, that's just how the game goes. HAI clearly had no idea our video was coming and we had no clue they were doing there's. Though if HAI start explaining trade deals or doing Brexit videos we might have to start writing a dis track...

[@popiejopie1]

What is HAI?

[@TheLPcollector]

@@popiejopie1 educational/entertainnment youtube channel that explans a bunch of triva in a fun and engaging way, aka half as interesting, same person also does wendover productions

[@popiejopie1]

For those also confused, the channel is called Half as Interesting

[@ReneSchickbauer]

How would a split of Belgium affect the EU membership of the resulting two new countries?

[@Gisneal]

Not sure if I've seen the video you referenced, but after having seen both I can give some feedback. The other video was more pleasing on the eyes (my eyes). Your overuse of left right backgroundswiping became very tiring to look at and in the end I focussed more on that than the actual content. That being said, thanks for educaing the rest of the world how impossible Belgium is. Kind regards, a belgian.

[@SoothingLifeSoundtrack]

A Belgian here: a one off crisis? This is the second time in less than a decade that we've gone 1-2 years without a government. I was kinda surprised our last one wasn't mentioned in the video. I think we hold the world record

[@beheerowner]

1st and 2nd pace. BELGIUM NUMBER 1 GODVERDOEMME!!!

[@silkedupont7413]

Nope some other country defeated our record a few weeks later

[@Serilia]

@@silkedupont7413 Yeah, but we still held it for a bit. Please let us have this at least

[@Spasmomen]

@@silkedupont7413 yeah Iraq or something 😂

[@roodbennett]

Belgian here too...ummm fellow Belgen/Belges, this is par for the course I thought? 😁 Honestly though, I would niet wish to live elsewhere.

[@null090909]

I can't see why party leaders would no longer marry their daughters away to secure a parliamentary majority. It has worked well in over 900 years. Why stop now?

[@sirBrouwer]

not enough daughters. Why do you think there national symbol is a young boy having a pis? because they have boy's in spare.

[@cookie856]

@@sirBrouwer gay marriage is legal in Belgium

[@MarcusCactus]

Cookie / Yeah, but probably too few homosexuals.

[@cookie856]

@@MarcusCactus And? Arranged marriage aren't love marriage. The married can agree between them to find their own loved ones, no? All they have to do is to be friendly enough with each other to live together.

[@Lttlemoi]

Yes, European medieval times are very well known for their cozy and peaceful political life. It's why WW1 is most fondly remembered as just another family feud.

[@JayJay5244]

Small correction: France doesn’t have a federal system and the different regions have very little authority on their own. Most authority comes from Paris directly.

[@LiveFreeOrDieDH]

I would say this is a pretty big correction.

[@Koellenburg]

you say it, .. France is the mother of Centralism. Calling it Federal would be like calling the Sowjed Union capitalist ^^

[@giatiexwkanali2750]

Dictatorship

[@JayJay5244]

@SharkTH _ France was always a very centralized state, even when you go back to before the Republic was established… “L’etat c’est moi” literally meaning “The state is me” was literally the governing philosophy of the French kings since Louis XIV. Whenever we quote an absolute monarchy where the monarch has absolute power it’s France lol.

[@lmlmd2714]

Just a bit. France is hyper-centralised. A better example of a technically unitary state that is de-facto federalised would be Spain.

[@abdc2990]

When Syria beat our record, you just know we had to take it back! 🇧🇪☝️💪

[@galaxyvita2045]

Let me be honest as someone that lives there, we don't even notice that we don't have a government. Why? Because we have way to many systems. Also i can't really say the Belgium's really feel a sense of national pride, apart for our football team!

[@jacobsxavier6082]

Yeah, but what a football team ...

[@leahegeloh8929]

We Germans also don't feel a sense of national pride except for the national football team 😂

[@victorvergote3932]

@@leahegeloh8929 Long live federal nations!

[@JL-yi2tm]

Not only we don't really notice but we don't really care either :D

[@Bolsonaro_em_Haia]

That is so Taoistic. Congratulations.

[@Intreductor]

Meanwhile History Matters: Why does Belgium exist?

[@ahyan14]

Intreductor that has been a question which has been answered by kaiser wilhem and Hitler some years ago

[@glennvdh2348]

Basically because Belgians wanted to remain catholic, they created a country with far worse differences than religion. Also in this time it wouldnt be a reason as almost nobody is enthousiast catholic anymore.

[@Clodaghbob]

Frankly Frank To ensure that the UK has some redeeming features? 🤣😂🤣

[@davidmckenzie1534]

Somewhere for France and Germany to fight?

[@Clodaghbob]

Intreductor Because it's the Land of the Free trade and Home of the Sprout!

[@HarJBeRw]

Just a couple corrections, primarily regarding the historical section: - Charlemagne didn't conquer the area surrounding Belgium. Rather, the frankish kingdom was established in Belgium, under Clovis I of the merovingian dynasty, and from that core, the franks then went on to conquer large swathes of Gaul and eventually moved the capital from Tournai (in belgium) to Paris. Only then does Charlemagne enter the picture. - Middle Francia (or Lotharingia, however you want to call it) was important in shaping distinctive identities, not just for the belgians, but the dutch, the burgundians, the swiss, and many other groups, though it was indeed eventually completely scavenged by west and east francia - The south of belgium didn't speak French at that point, nor did flanders just speak dutch (hell most of France didn't speak french until the reforms of the 17th century). Rather, many states spoke other romance-related languages (mostly walloon and some related to picard) and the other states spoke germanic languages, such as flemish and frankish. However, French WAS spoken by the ruling elites/upper classes of all the regions of modern belgium, especially following the dutch revolt, but the working class didn't. This is a more of an "england before Henri IV" sort of deal, where the upper classes spoke french but their subjects didn't. Then, over the past two centuries, French popularized itself among the masses of Wallonia (similar to how english took over in ireland), and the various dialects in modern-day flanders started uniting around flemish which converged with standard dutch, becoming much more similar (despite it being much more different in the past) and other dialects such as brabantian or limburgish started dissapearing. The contemporary section was really accurate and informative 😊 Just have two little things to add: - As you very well explained, one has to keep in mind all the different parliaments and devolutions of power in the country. While it's certainly true that the FEDERAL parliament has a problem with forming coalitions, it hasn't been too huge of a problem because the regional parliaments as well as the linguistic parliaments are very much in session and have widespread competences. - Regarding the issue of flemish separatism, while it certainly is relevant (N-VA and VB are the two biggest flemish parties after all), it's important to note the presence of Brussels, which was often portrayed coloured in with flanders in those sections. Notwithstanding the fact that a majority of flemings still aren't in favour of separation, the real issue would be what to do with brussels as, despite being an officially bilingual region, 80% of its inhabitants speak french (as do many of the flemish brabantt communes connecting brussels to wallonia. Anyway, sorry for my nitpicks, really appreciated the video and would love to see more! Always nice to see people talk about our criminally underrated and complicated little country 😄🎉

[@TheEvertw]

No-one realizes that France didn't conquer Belgium, but the Belgium conquered France in the 5th century. And Nederland didn't conquer Belgium, the Belgians conquered Nederland in the 5th century.

[@Ghreinos]

@@TheEvertw I wouldn't say Belgium conquered France, because there was no France, nor Berlgium. You can just say from our todays perspective that these were the area where certain things happened. But I think Charlamange is more know in history, because he converted to christianity and was therefore in war with the saxons and other germanic tribes.

[@Infected_Apple]

@@Ghreinos he didn't convert the Franks had converted long before then

[@Ghreinos]

@@Infected_Apple I'm sorry for my bad english, but I was trying to say that he converted other germanic tribes to christianity and was therefore one of the founder of the christian society in the medeavel times.

[@TheEvertw]

@@Ghreinos Never let such details get in the way of feeling better about your country ;-)

[@michielp1922]

A small mistake: whil it's true that some catholic parts of belgium stayed loyal to spain, big parts of belgium did revolt and had a big protestant population. Most of Antwerp's protestant population moved to Amsterdam after the city got reconquered by the spanish, this is why Amsterdam grew so big

[@ConstantijnII]

Indeed, a lot of cities actually were protestant and revolted and some just couldn't stand the Spanish rule anymore. The Spanish Netherlands were mostly parts that were reconquered from the revolt and the region was mainly divided (with some slight adjustments) according to the territory controlled by each side at the end of the Eighty Years' War.

[@MarcusCactus]

Even more ! The South was more protestant than the North in the beginning. But Orange-Nassau chose revolt when Egmont and Horn chose cooperation. As a result, many protestants fled to Holland and Catholics fled to Belgium. This is why Dutch cities began to earn influence in the political and economic domains. Before that, Netherlands was a backward part of the Low Countries, and every bit of culture, commerce or political role was concentrated in Bruges, Ghent, Brussels, Liège, etc.

[@Corbalte]

This is also why you can found "Walloon Church" in Amsterdam and other major cities of the Netherland and 'the new world', founded by walloons who left their places when persecusions began.

[@willyholdsman3956]

@@MarcusCactus In the futur it could be the Northern Netherlands and the Southern Netherlands, so it was when we discoverd together South-Afrika.....

[@lcs_crr]

France is a federation? That's new to me

[@vnixned2]

it is not, but it has decentralised quite a bit in the last few decades

[@kbo7074]

It underwent decentralisations of power a few times since the 80s, it's not federalised but the "decentralised organisation" is inscribed in the constitution

[@davidguerin6142]

Well, it is a bit less centralised than it used to be. The constitution states that it is decentralised, but that's more or less an act of faith.

[@lol-xs9wz]

Doesn't matter if France is more and more decentralized. It's still not a Federation.

[@linaiisaye8357]

The video said:"A lot of power is delegated to regional stated, like France and Germany." Therefore they didnt call France a federation, but instead a decentralised state.

[@Epic0201]

Ah yes Beaten our old record

[@minimanzero2262]

HMS P. That’s what I though when I saw the video. As someone who grew up in Belgium (but not Belgian myself) i think it’s a shame there’s such a division and people should be proud of the country. But just as you get dishonesty, genuine people will always be there

[@sandervandervekens]

We have the world record for the longest without a government

[@VUO4E]

not yet. but keep the champagne in the refrigerator.

[@Daan_2000]

And the record of the most horrible highway's in Europe😆😆

[@Boombi_]

@@Daan_2000 at least they're free not like in France, but yeah they're kinda messy. Although the ones near where I live are in good condition.

[@TheRealKingLeopoldII]

Honestly, as a Belgian, we don't notice this in our daily lives.

[@appleslover]

How is your rubber *business* Going in the Congo *Free* state?

[@TheRealKingLeopoldII]

@@appleslover Not so great sadly. It's hard for the Congolese to work without hands. My soldiers didn't think about that.

[@whyisgamora4191]

@@TheRealKingLeopoldII ... as a Belgian, we don't claim you.

[@TheRealKingLeopoldII]

@@whyisgamora4191 HOW DARE YOU! I did everything I could for my beautiful country and even that isn't enough for you

[@magicicecube8233]

@kristof verbruggen Huh, i read somewhere that it was us giving the congolese guns and we counted bullets, so as to not have them hunt with the rifles and only use them for serious bussiness. Which backfired when they started bringing hands back of people whom were still alive, as to get more bullets.. humans be humans after all.

[@jochen9367]

Historical innacuracy: When Charlmegne (Or Karl der Große) died his empire was directly passed to his son Ludwig der Fromme (or Ludovico Pio in Italian) then when HE died his three sons: Karl, Ludwig and Lothar divided the empire.

[@appleslover]

Wasn't it ß?

[@JVerschueren]

My friend Didier and I couldn't remember "Ludwig de Vrome" either on our history exams in high school. I wrote "after the death of their father, Karel de Grote's grandsons divided the empire", while Didier skipped the generation entirely. I got half marks on that question, Didier zero. He's still sore about that. 😆

[@tirex3673]

@@appleslover yes, it's Karl der Große, a Greek β isn't a German ß

[@pansepot1490]

It’s a ten minutes video covering a huge chunk of history and a complex topic. Skipping some minor detail is normal.

[@leowilly29]

I actually needed Time to realise that you were talking about Louis le Pieux

[@florinadrian5174]

3:52 "ultimately reverting to Habsburg" - actually, the Habsburgs were rulers of Spain as well as Austria meaning Belgium never left their dominion in that period.

[@AmedeeVanGasse]

"ultimately reverting to the Austrian branch of the Habsburgs" is more like it.

[@MarcusCactus]

Amedee Van Gasse - Not exactly. Actually STAYED with the Hapsburg when Spain got under Bourbon rule.

[@AmedeeVanGasse]

@@MarcusCactus you wrote "not exactly" and then you confirm what I wrote. In more detail: * under Habsburg rule * Habsburg split in an Austrian branch and a Spanish branch * The Low Countries, what would later become Belgium (and the Netherlands), went to the Spanish Habsburgs. * After the extinction of the Spanish Habsburgs, (and of course some wars in between with Louis XIV of France, Le Roi Soleil, of the House of Bourbon, who wanted his grandson on the Spanish throne), what would later become Belgium reverted to the Austrian Habsburgs.

[@mortuos557]

Advantages and disadvantages of voting systems sounds like a good idea.

[@SC2Inimicus]

I second that

[@shubhamagarwal8960]

I third it

[@XconeArtist]

Fourth!

[@thomascunliffe4758]

Fifth!

[@Phoenix_254]

Sixth!

[@pkomelette4305]

In Belgium, we say "Pourquoi faire simple quand on peut faire compliqué ?" and I think that's beautiful.

[@victorvergote3932]

C'est simplement notre motto.

[@Lapantouflemagic0]

we also say that in france 😉

[@marafortune3713]

We have the same saying in German: "Warum einfach, wenn es auch kompliziert geht?" But I agree, a wonderful motto!

[@Sirocca]

Actually they only say that in the French speaking part.. 😂

[@anneputseys4441]

well, Stefan I do use the saying in Dutch (waarom makkelijk als het ook moeilijk kan?) ever since my teacher used it on me in music school...

[@dagamer1992]

I'm watching this because they were the ones who invented French Fries Xd

[@mireillep5449]

Belgian fries, please 😛

[@islunse]

The "french" in french fries is the way they are baked... -> fried aka frenched. Has nothing to do with France

[@evryatis9231]

Depends. It was either made in france during the revolution, or in belgium a bit later on. Who knows

[@Destereir]

@@evryatis9231 It's been known for a while now that Belgium invented it. It's not really up for debate since it's a fact.

[@evryatis9231]

@@Destereir ah my bad then. Thats a sad moment for a frenchy like me

[@snowcold5932]

1:50 France is one of the most centralised countries in the world, most definitely not a federation or anything close to one. You could've picked Spain or Italy as better examples

[@carloarbaiza9059]

Dont know anything about it but how does italy have a federation?

[@snowcold5932]

@@carloarbaiza9059 Neither Spain nor Italy are federations but their regions have more autonomy than the french ones

[@lacdirk]

The UK is probably the most centralised western European country. France has been decentralising since the 80s, and its old reputation as a centralised state is outdated. I would not call it a federation yet, but actual regional power has increased a lot, and regional governments have significant budgetary autonomy, including the power to take on debt.

[@Whydoyoureadme]

@@snowcold5932 Spain is, to some extend and on some matters, a de facto federation, but it is not inscribed in the constitution as such, only that x, y and z stuff can be regulated internally by its states.

[@Clodaghbob]

Dirk Lac Ireland is more centralised. The Irish government will not, under any circumstances, allow Cork to have its own parliament. 😜

[@Amozmusicmaker]

Pretty impressed on how you summarized over a 1000 years of history in just two minutes there

[@Wichnam]

So much was missed as to why the Belgians are today how they are.

[@Amozmusicmaker]

obviously, but for a two minute segment I think they did a pretty solid job

[@elwoodzmake]

@@Wichnam Make a better summary.

[@TAXCF]

I wouldn't say so. The history of language divitions is much older. It's dates back for the migration period. The true beginning begins with the invasion in 172-174 A.D. of the Chauci. This attack marks the end of the Pax Romana. Their attack was so destructif that numerous roman farms in Belgium where abandoned. Roughly Flanders and Southern Netherlands became depopulated except for fortification along important roads, limes and coast fortification (Litus Saxonicum). Then in the third century settle the Salian Franks in Toxandria. In the next centuries they will expand their territory. The places where the Franks where the majority -> Franconian was spoken. From this language comes Dutch from. In the places where the Gallo-Romains remain the dominant etnicity -> vulgar Lantin was spoken. This language evolve to modern-day French. Later the Language border will moves northward, but this event froms the basis of the modern-day language border. It's strange that he say that Charlemagne "conquered" Belgium. It's from the parts of Belgium and the Netherlands where the Franks will build their empire from. It's not the other way round. In the time of Charlemagne was Belgium considerd part of the Frankish heartland. The next point I have trouble with is that the Burgundians unify the low countries. That's a gross oversimplification. They started with unification but It was until emperor Charles V that the low countries were fully unified. Furhter I have problems with map use. The channel use of modern map of the Netherlands to expland the situation in and after the 80 years war. Dutch Limburg was not fully part of the Netherlands then. Also the modern-day borders of Belgian provinces dates back form the Napolionic times. Only the borther of Flemish-Brabant and Walloon-Brabant dates from the 20th century. For the rest is it a proper short summary of Belgian history. If is there mistakes in spelling and grammer, I'm sorry for that.

[@elwoodzmake]

@@TAXCF yeah, but considering everything you'd include, you'd need a 5 hour video, not a 2 minute summary...

[@ceestwirre2353]

Fun fact: it seems that this period without a government was an economic succes. Budget deficit was reduced and GPD increased....

[@Bolsonaro_em_Haia]

Food for thought, eh?

[@sirBrouwer]

well you you can't spent any if there is not government for that part.

[@pansepot1490]

Without a government is a misrepresentation. It doesn’t take into consideration all the local governments and the temporary central government. Seems a lot of government power to me. Anyway if the formula is producing good results Belgium should definitely go on with it.

[@VishnuSixDix]

Then when the new government arrives, they'll have to cut 10+ billion euros to fund everything that went tits up while the government wasn't ... well... governing.

[@MarcusCactus]

Wrong. Debt hais increased abysmally . Failed businesses everywhere, and the big ones are laying off workers and employees.

[@shaunbrowne9870]

Belgium: Literally doesn't have a government at the moment. Also Belgium: Still handling COVID better than the US or Britain.

[@ewawilsons]

Not in COVID deaths per million population.

[@emptystuff1593]

@@ewawilsons Depends on how you count. If a dead person has coughed 2 weeks prior his death, he's counted as a CoVId death in Belgium(I'm only slightly exaggerating). If you watch excess mortality, we're good. Well, I'm certainly not saying they're handling this good, I still think they're a bunch of clowns but at least they're paying attention to the matter.

[@leGUIGUI]

@@ewawilsons You have to factor in the density of population too. A notable point is how Belgium's hospital didn't end up being overloaded.

[@LA90598]

I doubt that very much. UK has it under control with stable number of cases for weeks unlike mainland Europe.

[@RobinVanhove]

What a joke. Belgium one of the worst countries handling the Covid virus.

[@NSLikeableHuman]

Greetings from the “capital of Europe”! The video that shan’t be named has a few minor inaccuracies and is much less detailed (especially the historical lesson), so this is the superior video IMO. Cheers! 😎

[@vnixned2]

well, this video also has various historical inaccuracies in that part of the video, mostly related to the 80 years war. Antwerp and much of modern Flanders and even parts of modern Waloonia actually rebelled against the Spanish too. It is just that the Spanish managed to reconquer these regions. The rape of Antwerp is especially important in this case as that is the reason that Amsterdam managed to take over as the leading port of the Low Countries and later even Europe before being pushed from the throne by Londen and Rotterdam

[@standardsergio]

Tbh doing al this in a 10min video is still impressive. I don’t think even most Belgians could com close to this.

[@minoarno7415]

@@vnixned2 its also why citizens from Ghent are nicknamed stroppendragers, because the leaders of the revolts all got hanged.

[@KillSteel]

Thank you for the video! As a Belgian, it is nice to see a video about this topic. I do have one question tho, why did you use red as the representative color of Flanders, and yellow for Wallonia? In reality, those colors are swapped. Flanders is always represented by yellow, and wallonia by red (as seen in their flags).

[@vampireheart1987]

It is true that Germany and the USA are examples of a federal system - but France? No. France is a unitary state, the opposite of a federal state, so to speak.

[@sirBrouwer]

doesn't France have semi independent departments or is that only something like a province here in the Netherlands?

[@vampireheart1987]

@@sirBrouwer As far as I can see, the system in France is roughly the same as in the Netherlands. Both are decentralized unitary states. France and the Netherlands are divided into administrative units. These only execute the powers that the central government has given them, but the central government can still decide everything. It could therefore relatively easily change the entire structure, such as the number and size of administrative units. An example of this is the reform in France in 2016 - since then there have been 18 regions, previously there were 27. This would not be possible in a federal state. The federal government has the greatest power, but it could not restructure the country, because the individual states also have great power - after all, within this federal system, they are independent states, with their own government, their own administration, an own educational system and so on.

[@sirBrouwer]

@@vampireheart1987 if that is the case France is even more centralized then the Netherlands. Here decentralized governments can say no to a certain level.

[@Koellenburg]

thank you, .. i thought i m the only one who noticed that ^^

[@vampireheart1987]

@@sirBrouwer I can hardly judge this, because I know both systems only superficially. (I'm German, so I come from a federal system) 🤷 What I do know, however, is that there were also some plans in the Netherlands for a new division of the provinces, but they were all discarded - the last time was 5 years ago, I think. 🤔 Of course, all countries are structured differently, so they have different laws, constitutions and so on. So I could imagine that it also depends on what kind of power and rights a central government has transferred to its regions. If a project of the central government falls within the matters transferred to the regions, the regions will have the right to say "no" the project. But it seems to me that a central government has *always* the power to decide whether to accept or ignore this "no".

[@Lemonz1989]

I don’t remember who said it, but I heard some time ago someone say “Belgium has all the signs of a failed state, but no one has told them that so they just keeps on going anyway.” 😅

[@erwinb3412]

A failed state is a country that cannot provide for the needs of its population anymore . The Belgian population has all the basics it needs , as even do the migrants . There are no foodlines , mass house evictions , sick people with no money thrown out of hospitals , whole homeless slums (of legal citizens) and most people do not need more than one job to get by , as should be . We only do not provide for all the wants of the politicians .

[@Lemonz1989]

Erwin B That was the whole point of the comment. Belgium seems to have so many qualities of a failed state, but is actually doing quite well anyway, hence the “no one has told them” bit.

[@NicolasSauveur]

Using tax payers money (and time of politicians) on hundreds if not thousands of hours of meetings to form a government... I wouldn't call that a very successful way to run a country.

[@ryanexplorer]

As a Belgian citizen I can confirm this is a failed state. You just can’t keep a good relationship with another part of the country that doesn’t speak the same language and has cultural differences, I’ve seen many discrimination especially from flemish people towards wallonians. Let’s not even talk about the fact that most wallonians don’t even speak dutch (if do they it’s at a very low level). Wallonians have a lot more in common with France and Luxembourg than with Flander, same with Flander they have a lot more in common with the Netherlands than with Wallonia. I am 100% for the split, it’ll be better for everyone

[@basilen.7852]

@@ryanexplorer what do you do with brussels ?

[@darthcalanil5333]

I'm pretty sure there's a difference between an actual Federation, like Germany where I actually live, and a centralised republic like France. Maybe local governments in France do have wide authorities over local matters, but that still doesn't make it a "federation" because the central government still has the ultimate say no matter what.

[@ilianceroni]

Yep, they are very different systems, federal states a way more equal and independent than regions/provinces in a centralised republic. They should have compared Belgium to Germany or Switzerland (who also happens to have linguistic minorities). Or even better, looking to both centralised states and federations and collocate Belgium in a “centralised-federation” spectrum🤔

[@nicolasolivieri3241]

I'm from Belgium and yes, this is silly.

[@christiaanvancamp6628]

Nope, it's unique in its own way. It shows that feelings of strong nationalism and urges to obtain and hold on to power are relative

[@appleslover]

What is the Belgian national identity built around? Do you feel Belgian? Or do you see wallonians/flanderers as fellow countrymen ?

[@christiaanvancamp6628]

@@appleslover we love them just as much 🙂

[@ibracadabra882]

@@appleslover I feel being Belgian and I'm proud being Belgian. It would be a nightmare if it splits up. What would the Brussels Region become ?

[@JL-yi2tm]

@@appleslover There is no real Walloon identity. People don't really feel "walloon" it's just a political reality and a way to name (most) french speaking Belgians. Their identity is more local (Liège, Charleroi or else) and Belgian and European. In Flanders the Flemish identity is more important

[@wolfpackleaderalpha]

If the Belgian people manage to live without a government, more power to them.

[@scratchy996]

As a general rule, to avoid clutter in life, if you don't use some things for a long period of time, you can throw them away.

[@jef3162]

Thats the funny thing, we choice a government also know as vlaamsbelang (who had the most votes out of all) - but others parties didnt want them to rule so they made a coaltie that prevents them of ruling and here we are still no government

[@scratchy996]

@@jef3162 you should fire all politicians and contract a private company to be the government.

[@hendrikhuysmans8057]

@@jef3162 well all the other parties exclude vlaams belang from ever coming into a government because they're basically the same party as vlaams blok was and that party was banned

[@nathanquirynen7973]

@@jef3162 They didn't have the most votes. They had the highest increase in votes. Not the same thing...

[@ronaldderooij1774]

Belgium and the United Kindom prove how resiliant states really are. As for Belgium, the redeeming factor is that most Belgians don't seem to mind politics at all (coming from a Dutchman).

[@jacobsxavier6082]

Well, yes but no XD anyways we prefer doing business than politics so you shouldn't worry about a civil war

[@victorvergote3932]

We kinda joke a lot about our politician. Lot's of dark humor. It will probably stay togheter and wil just confederalise or get more centralized. The problem is that's a big thing and still haven't fully decided on that one.

[@ronaldderooij1774]

@@jacobsxavier6082 I am not worried at all about my southern friends. Just amazed, haha.

[@ButchE30M3S14]

Indeed, we stopped caring! Life goes on :-) I think Brexit is way more stressful then having no governement...

[@jacobsxavier6082]

@@ronaldderooij1774 We too, each time we do something more stupid, are amazed, and then push to break our own records. Great years are coming most likely.

[@koenvandiest8451]

A good video with some small mistakes: -N-VA has 24 seats, the last seat they got during the election had gone to an independent. - PS has 19 seats, Emir Kir has been removed from the party (but still votes with them). - Sophie Wilmes was never the head of the MR. - The position on splitting the country is more nuanced than portrait here. But since I can't get it into one KZbin comment that people will read I forgive you for that.

[@gerbo8018]

N-VA is not for splitting up the country .. they are for making it a confederalism. Its a soft split but not the same as destroying the country like he made it sound.

[@bakakafka4428]

@@gerbo8018 Then please explain this confederalism and how it would be made to work, because even the NVA can't. Confederalism is when two independant nations get together and form a federation. You can't get this in the current configuration without splitting the country first. And if you ask the staunch supporters of the NVA, they even don't believe this 'confederalism', they explain it as a white lie to get to real independance. Like BoJo and his Brexiteers, they just project their wishes on their political idols and assume that's what's inevitably meant by what these say. That's why NVA is a populist party, by definition.

[@Frahamen]

@@gerbo8018 NVA is for splitting if when they're talking to Flamingant people, and not for splitting when they're taller to unionists. They're mostly for more power for themselves.

[@dirkgonthier101]

@@bakakafka4428 That's a dumb answer. Confederalism is a political system where all sides state the competences in which they want to work together. So, the Walloons and Flemings will continue to work together, but only in those competences where they both agree upon and nothing more (defence, foreign policy, ...). All the rest of the competences should go to the regions.

[@dirkgonthier101]

@@Frahamen You don't know that. The parties of the Flemish Movement (NVA + Vlaams Belang) still need to gain 4 seats before they have a majority in Flanders and gaining independence for Flanders becomes possible. Prior to that, it had little point to talk about independence, since there wasn't a majority to make Flanders independent. I'm sure that, by the next election, this becomes feasible. 'Cause I never saw the parties of the Flemish Movement loose an election in 40 years. They started out with 15% of the popular vote in Flanders (Volksunie) and now they have about 45% of the vote.

[@Fenix-fg6cs]

Thanks for the quality ! This is truly amazing !

[@mysusume]

Belgian here! Thanks for the video and the very concise way you summarised our history. We actually had a similar problem after the 2010 elections when it took us 541 days to form a government so we're kind of getting used to this circus.

[@Coldfirebe]

As a belgian, I have never once "worried" about this issue... It happened before and guess what ? The country kept working, people lived their life, kept working,... It's not as big of a deal as everyone makes it out to be. Sure... It's not "great" for our future, but the day to day impact of this is extremely minimal. Proving once and for all: politics aren't what keeps a country going. It's the people.

[@antocl5257]

Exactly as long as the people goes along well with each other , the politics won't be able to tear us apart

[@manamoon9149]

As long as the country doesn't burn I'm fine honestly never really cared about this, we did fine the last time this happened and even beated a record. Would be funny if we beated it again though XD

[@antocl5257]

@@manamoon9149 i think we actually did beat our own record again guy 💀 omg i love this country ksksksk

[@manamoon9149]

@@antocl5257 I'm a girl XD but sweet lol

[@antocl5257]

@@manamoon9149 ohh sorry for misgendering you , didn't want to offense :( (désolé)

[@michielp1922]

Another big reason why there still isn't a government, which you didn't really point out, is that Flanders mostly voted rightwinged, and Wallonia msotly leftwinged

[@Silica_UK]

they pointed out the different ideologies for the different main parties though which sort of implies that

[@bjarnedevos5891]

Also they dont say VB has a no go pact going on from others... all lefty's decided they where to Nazi like.... Well if they get voted thirth highest... Who is making the problem?

[@ShinAgro]

@@bjarnedevos5891 Still Nazis. Or did you forget the salute De Winter made in parliament? And some other less known members are clearly linked with neonazi groupings. Btw, not only the "leftys", central- and right-winged parties also participated in the 'cordon sanitaire'. Don't point fingers when others are involved too.

[@bjarnedevos5891]

@@ShinAgro there are 0good partys in belgian politics... Only less bad then others, thats the problem in Belgium if you ask me(dont look at me like i am a nazi because i voted for what i thought was the least bad xD)

[@ShinAgro]

@@bjarnedevos5891 I don't say you're a nazi because you voted for them, I just say you voted for nazis. Doesn't make you one, but they are for sure. Their history has proven it, and they still keep on the same rhetoric. Only party I believe in is PVDA/PTB, but we're a long way from true socialism to arise here.

[@0xCAFEF00D]

Exciting. I was was waiting for coverage of these two last days since that other video.

[@Deelom100]

Best​ Belgian explained video till so far on KZbin, greetings from Flanders

[@Nick-kz6dg]

TLDR: Can I copy your homework? HAI: Sure just change it so it doesn't look like you copied. TLDR: Well, actually...

[@sirBrouwer]

well he made sure not to include bricks in to the video so that is a difference.

[@standardsergio]

Not bad as a 10min video about Belgium and reasenably in depth too. Good job (y)

[@merrilyputrid5277]

Really good video! Goes indepth into the issue.

[@elsarm178]

Cool video, and very informative, great! I am in Belgium and I agree with all you said. Congrats!

[@martinmendl1399]

The world: Ah Belgium, the beautiful, free, rich and stable country with such amazing Infrastructure and so great living conditions! It surely must be a heaven on Earth! Belgium: *Whatever this shit is*

[@s_vb2220]

i woud hope we have 'amazing Infrastructure' for the tax we pay for it.

[@whyisgamora4191]

Honestly, we Belgians love to complain about everything but I think we all know how we have it good here.

[@s_vb2220]

@@whyisgamora4191 yeah thats true

[@martinmendl1399]

WHY IS GAMORA?! That’s pretty much the case with all developed countries TBH. People will complain if they can, and that is healthy, untill it’s taken too far and you have people comparing the US to North Korea and saying that even the medieval ages were better than now. I live in Czechia, a country that has seen great progress in the last 3 post-Commie decades, but everything is still wrong according to the public opinion, and that is good, cause that’s what helps to make the society always want to progress. I personally think that Belgium is still one of the best places to live in the best time period to live in (so far), even with all that Covid madness.

[@s_vb2220]

@@martinmendl1399 yeah your 'goverment' is doing a lot to stop the spreading, luckely we have one of the best medical services in the world, the spread is mostly due to the public being stupid and selfish (as usual) and the 'higher covid ratets' is due to how we count it, we count all suspected cases, most countrys only count hospital cases, or they just dont count and make up a number (looking at you China) tl:dr we are doing (relatively) fine

[@FreVanOers]

One remark on "many of the parties only run in one of the two regions" Until the 70's, the liberals, socialists and christians only had one party each for the whole of the country, but during the 70's they all split in a Flemish and a Walloon party and they only have a list in their respective region. Both green parties were started regionally and as Vlaams Belang and NVA are Flemish nationalist parties, they obviously don't run in Wallonia. And as Brussels is bilingual, all parties run there. But otherwise a very good overview

[@wellnessradiowellnesstv]

Thanks from Dominique from Belgium 💓 very well said 🌈🌹👍

[@nbnb382]

Great video! I'd love to hear about the pros and cons of all the voting/government systems

[@BulletBill64]

This might have been done to simplify things but the Southern Netherlands also rebelled against Spain and the fall of Antwerp and the following exodus of most of it's population to the north was a major event.

[@Infected_Apple]

Yeah it was a pretty big miss in my opinion. In the end you did have catholic loyalist areas but nothing like south north ( groningen comes to mind). The split had more to do with the practicalities of the war

[@haveaniceday4585]

The fact that Belgium can still operate just fine without a government almost 2 years is amazing imo.

[@sosteve9113]

Its not the first time

[@commando2113]

Well the king does not own belgium he is king of the belgians . belgium is made to maintain the peace between enemy's the peopel that live on that soil should own e king but for the peopel not the country the country is neutral no one can take it or claim it its made for peace and for the peopel that live on that soil so they could live in peace so they rule it not the the king the king is there to maintain the peace between flander's and wallonia he own's the command of the army and the goverments 6 or 7 i think 6 the 7 is gone 1 federal that is there to make laws and e littel more but thats it but it is made after the country is made in those state reforms but the point is the peopel rule but the parts are hold together by the rest of the goverments and no war because the law says the army can not be used agains't the peopel but it can be used for the peopel. but to realy understand this you should look allot of things up so yeah we can live in peace

[@haveaniceday4585]

@@commando2113 If you're going to write an essay like this, maybe it is a great idea to use some punctuation and capital letters. I'm sorry, I tried to make sense of your comment, but I just couldn't.

[@GreenJimll]

The UK have been effectively managing it since 2016. :-)

[@liamolaoghaire]

I’m glad you decided to put this out and not keep it back because someone else covered a similar topic. Love hearing more about the systems in place in the smaller European countries that normally get overlooked

[@megiski3116]

Other countries: why can't you just be normal? Belgium: *federal screeching*

[@sirBrouwer]

Me being Dutch: Well we are talking about Belgium. They are just special.

[@kynanverwimp847]

"Belgians" have no choice in this

[@cookie856]

@@sirBrouwer I am glad to be Belgian! XD

[@sirBrouwer]

@@cookie856 Strange people do exist. XP

[@deathrowzmichael8941]

@@sirBrouwer At least we are a nation that can joke about ourselves. unique thing in this world tbh...

[@marafortune3713]

When you listed all the six parliaments in Belgium, you named the second "German Speaking Wallonia Parliament" and the Dutch flag. I mean sure, there are some similarities between the two countries and languages but I am sure a lot of people would be upset if you were to declare them to be the same 😆

[@powerclan1910]

speaking as belgian citizen: WE DO NOT HAVE A PROPORTIONAL VOTING SYSTEM

[@Krikke1983]

Correct! We don't have one man - one vote principal :(

[@JorgiDhondt]

Technically we DO have a proportional voting system, but it is made "out-of-proportional" by (1) the seat counting system "D'hondt", (2) the electoral threshold of 5% and (3) the fact we only have regional parties. This hugely distorts the proportions as voted by the electorate.

[@powerclan1910]

@@JorgiDhondt 100% correct, but since seat count is what matters with forming majority, i don't count our system as proportional, just an opinion though, you are 100% right.

[@philippheyken9300]

Really interesting video! Would be very happy to see more such videos exploring the political systems of other EU states too.

[@VoiceOfJack]

I’m from Belgium and came to this video to try and understand our politics once more.

[@nassreddintaibi5796]

Well, the political parties in Belgium have a so-called political family. The socdem PS forms a family with the Flemish socdem SP.A. These parties work together, negotiate together and go into government/opposition together. So do the green, liberal and Christian democratic parties too. So yes, there are two different party systems on paper, but practically the parties act as one party with their ideological sibling

[@retro2103]

But it can cause friction. For example a lot of Flemish socialists aren't happy with Belgium's weapon exports to despot nations. But Walloon socialists are less eager to give up on FN Herstal which is a large source of income and jobs for the region. And the NVA does not have an ideological equivalent.

[@lukasvandeputte9299]

@@retro2103 it would be dificult for a flemish nationalist party to form in waloon though

[@MDP1702]

Yes they are families, but this doesn't ensures they are linked together. for example CDH and CD&V aren't really linked at all. And the sp.a/PS (don't remember which one) once said they have no problem entering a government without the other if the agreed on policies are fine. In fact that the liberals and greens now have linked themselves more strongly in "family" bonds caused the PS/N-VA coalition negotiations to fail (partially).

[@sirBrouwer]

@@lukasvandeputte9299 they could if Waloon has a Waloon nationalist party. There final goal would be the same. Only form the opposite of the federal boarder.

[@kingzogii7469]

Me a northern irish man "belgum 622 with out government weak "

[@r.a.8582]

Yes please make vids about different systems of government.

[@AzraelGnosis]

I could have sworn I had watched this already but before I'd ever subscribed to TLDR. It makes sense now

[@marczucker7973]

Belgium still functions without a government. Better than some countries which have ministers, secretaries of State, President or First Secretary. Decisions taken by belgian authorities do not provoke global trade wars or other world wide stresses. Also Belgium because of its size respect international conventions and cooperation. Maybe some countries would benefit by asking belgian politicians to take over their own governments. Languages is not problem as Belgium is trilingual, most know english adding Spanish would be easy. Belgium could inspire other countries not to have policies of vote suppresion and polarization. It would be an example how to operate efficient universal health coverage, an educational system, practically free, available to all. Also Belgian diplomats could show how to behave during international meetings. They do not push around other Heads of States for photo- ops.

[@ShinAgro]

@CultofBush Lmfao what a well funded response of yours

[@erwinb3412]

I presume you are North American ? What i don't understand is why it is the last developed nation not to have payed holidays . Workers-unions are essential to the welbeing of a nation .

[@Sick1982]

Belgium functions *at its best* without a government. Fixed :) Can't get things done that need to be done. Breaks things that were more or less working.

[@marczucker7973]

@CultofBush If you'r belgian ....you miss one thing the belgian sense of tongue in cheek humor. Even Magritte & Flupke en Wiske would recognize this. As some would say you have a dikke neck ! And speaking of Iceland ....yes, Iceland does more damage than Belgium , ask the dolphins 🐬 and whales.

[@marczucker7973]

@CultofBush Enough for you to take time for commenting.

[@hdwtgaming4161]

Wilmès was never the leader of the MR, she was just the only senior MR member who spoke fluent Dutch and French ... otherwise nice video

[@Frahamen]

She was more the sacrificial lamb chosen to be prime minister.

[@lukasvandeputte9299]

well i wouldn't call her dutch "fluent" but ok.

[@turencmpressor4152]

@@lukasvandeputte9299 I mean, if Di Rupo can be used as a benchmark, she's not """"""""""that bad""""""""""

[@ronan5427]

@@lukasvandeputte9299 most flemish people cant even speak french tbh and give up learning it after highschool and then complain that its too dificult. So props on wilmes for speaking both dutch and french well.

[@lukasvandeputte9299]

@@ronan5427 french in flanders is on average way better then dutch in walonia, in flanders it is at least a mandatory school subject for 8 years, countrary to walonia where it isn't mandatory at all. All i'm saying is that in senior levels of a political party there should at least be some people that can speak both languages fluently (although her dutch is at least not as painfull to hear as Di Rupo's)

[@rocky360sr]

I’d love to see a video on the different electoral systems in the UK: Westminster, Scottish Parliament, Welsh Parliament, NI Assembly, maybe even Councils too (multi-member constituencies)

[@Johncena-sg4om]

I love how people talk about belgium while they dont even live there.

[@rudidewolf8155]

we're famous

[@user-ph2nu9ky4e]

Don't worry TLDR, the other video was only half as interesting :p

[@dirseopasha]

Keep going with these great videos ! To me this is the best YT channel regarding politics/economics/international relations. I will study political economy soon and this channel is really helping me understand the basics and much more. I really look forward to the video explaining the advantages/disadvantages of the proportional systems. Thank you.

[@buffalome1543]

You also uploaded this video on HAI’s weekly upload day-Thursday. That video was uploaded on a Tuesday, which only happens once every other week.

[@stijnsherlock]

another video about the political systems/solutions would be great!

[@joshua.harvey-29]

Charlemagnes empire was passed to his son and wasn't split into 3 until after Louis the Pious died, not here for the history as much as the politics so still a great video 😁

[@JoshSweetvale]

Charlemagne's father also split the empire, but Charlemagne reunited it.

[@julienlanoo6823]

As a Belgian, from Flemish origins and living in Wallonia. I am happy to let you know we understood that giving ANY trust in ANY gouv is idiotic. As to become Politician you have to be inherently untrustworthy. ;)

[@stephanvandenadel4647]

Rofl... "Not entirely smoothly"... The understatement of the year... Lol... Greetings from Antwerp, Belgium

[@nerdx00]

If you guys do a follow up to this you should talk more about how Brussels fits into the equation. Since they are geographically in Flanders but primarily French speaking. With it being one of the most economically influential locations in the region it plays a big part in the tensions around separation of the country.

[@noamjen]

in Israel we also have proportional representation, and now had 3 elections in one year, with a 4th one on the way, probably in 3 months or so (though the reason is a bit more complex than what is shown in the video). Here and there the idea of moving to a first past the post voting system comes up, but the thing is, in a country with such diversity, this is the only system that is able to give the minority a voice. I'd rather have the political mess we have now, than over and over again have a PM or parliament majority that does not actually represent the voters' will.

[@jacobsxavier6082]

Is Israël challenging Belgium's records ?

[@maayanmagal4629]

Nope we had only 515 days of transitional government before a new one was confirmed by the parlament Mainly because of the Corona virus

[@granpa4075]

The U.S. has been without a gov’t for 4 years

[@lukaszspychaj9210]

ok lib

[@freshname]

Thanks so much! Belgium is my favourite EU country to follow politics, elections and just the political design in general. It fascinates me so much!

[@validcallpani8981]

We hold the Guinness world record for most days without a government happened some years ago.

[@GlanVonBrylan]

"It's also a federation, which means a lot of governing power is delegated to regional states, like we see like we see in *France*" Uhh, what? France is centralized af, were you drunk when you wrote that?.. It's not a federation. Never has been.

[@lol-xs9wz]

It's also wrongly defined. A delegation implies that the central government just gives some power to the subdivisions which is just wrong in a federation.

[@Koellenburg]

xD .. i thought same here Glân

[@emieldhondt2536]

Way more information than HAI Finally a video that properly explains how our government works thank you It's definitely not a one off problem we have been here before And I would like videos on different voting systems

[@homeless0alien]

YES. do a video evaluating different voting systems with current and historical examples of each were possible. that would be great!

[@Edmonton-of2ec]

3:40. Just a nitpick here, the territory of Limburg didn’t become a formal part of the Netherlands until 1867. Before then it was in personal Union with the Dutch Crown since 1839, but previously it was apart of the Netherlands from 1815 until 1830 or 1839 (depends who you ask). But no, when the original United Provinces seceded, they didn’t take Limburg with them.

[@jarrod752]

Sounds like government isn't really necessary is it.

[@dmyt58]

Jarrod not when you have multiple and are one of the richest regions on earth no

[@jarrod752]

@@dmyt58 Then when _is_ it necessary? I'm a philosophical anarchist, but IMO government decentralization (removing the hierarchy and reducing governments down to 1 or 2 square miles or city blocks) could be a solution and fix a lot of problems that we have, introduce competition between governments (don't like the rules or the tax structure, move a few miles to a better one) and improve quality. But I don't think it's actually necessary for people to come together, figure out their roads, defenses, and schools, and live a good life.

[@dmyt58]

@@jarrod752 Every city block a goverment? You have any ideas how many problems this would create. Some blocks wouldn't put street lights, some would. You need way more people to manage the government and figure stuff out. Then high income areas will basically get extremely rich compared to low income areas (even way more then today) because why would they create a social structure when everyone is rich already. How do you defend yourself from 10 city blocks who come together and decide to simply conquer the rest of the city or even country. So everyone has to constantly visit meetings about their government and what's going on? There will be almost no journalism because the journalist per capita is super small. Honestly i can see like a 1000 problems and no real advantages (hypercapitalism is already active mayorly in the US and it is one of the worst 1st world countries). If you want to go into detail send me your discord or something since yt comments wont be ideal for this. In Belgium we gave a lot of power to the governments of Flanders and Wallonia which were formed rather fast. As our federal systems are already decent it doesn't matter if we don't have a government. The old one will keep existing as a resigning government with reduced powers to keep managing everything till a new government is formed. Saying we are without government might create the wrong idea. A government is needed when the structure you have in place is insufficient for the changes in culture that happened or if existing laws don't reach the expected results. If you would create a perfect system you wouldn't need one theoretically since all the possible problems will have preset strategies on how to deal with them which can be triggered automatically. Then you could probably be without government all together.

[@jarrod752]

@@dmyt58 So then you move to the government that either wants to have street lights or the government that charges you less in taxes. As a home owner, you would get voting rights in that government, and *gasp* figure stuff out with your neighbors. The whole point is that corruption would go down, people would actually have a say about who to hire for police and fire in the neighborhood, and what kind of schooling etc. You are giving me *exactly* the same arguments against anarchy i hear all the time, without realizing that people are very good at solving their problems on their own. When businesses compete, quality goes up and costs go down. Same with government. Right now we just *give away* stupid amounts of money to nepotic companies with ties to politicians and overpay for services that are inadequate. You should do a little research on it. Mises has a great video on the topic as well... you might find it more plausible than you think.

[@dmyt58]

@@jarrod752 Oh we could clearly see how gallic tribes were so much more peaceful then after the Roman empire came. Go to Africa if you like anargy so much

[@Leonard-lf5yl]

Honestly, I think the federalization of Belgium was a BIG mistake. It has caused even more division in the society like not having proper national bilingual political parties.

[@Robbedem]

I don't think it was a mistake, but it certainly was a mistake to not have one federal voting area. What did they expect would happen? ... Flemish can't vote for Walloon parties and vice versa, so no wonder it's so difficult to get a majority in parliament. If they would make one federal voting area, the number of parties could be cut almost in half and it would become much more feasable to make a national government.

[@lol-xs9wz]

Maybe the system itself is very badly designed. This could be one of the few instances where a billingual two-party system could be beneficial.

[@JL-yi2tm]

@@Robbedem I agree with you. Federal elections should be held with parties present in every province of the country. And this would not mean that regions would have less competences.

[@jannoottenburghs5121]

@@Robbedem But that problem isn't so much in the design of our voting system but more in the attitude of our political parties. Since the parties have the possibility to be on every list (as a politician you can even be on the list of that province without living there) like Vlaams Belang did in Wallonia.

[@RoadRashSpirit]

@@lol-xs9wz I disagree, this just means the vast amjority dont get repreented and over years resentment builds up and then everyone becomes polorised to extremes....bit like whats happening now in all the countries that have that system. Direct democracy is the ultimate solution

[@obadaodeh1625]

This is one of the ever best channels to understand european politics.

[@Twisted_Logic]

I misinterpreted the title as Belgium having no state and I was like "I'm pretty sure I would've heard about that."

[@darthcalanil5333]

I'm very interesting in the different voting systems in Europe and how they compare to the 2 party system in the US. What are the ups and downs of both?

[@MDP1702]

The simplest answer would be: coalition forming vs underrepresentation. In a proportional system you almost always have to form a coalition, forget one party majority. In a FPTP system (like in the US) you often have that people are underrepresented. Someone can get elected with a lot less than 50%, and even if they get elected with 50%+, the people who voted for someone else essentially aren't represented at all.

[@marafortune3713]

If you're interested in that, I'd highly recommend you to read Arend Lijphart's "Patterns of Democracy" then. He compares the political systems of 36 countries along the lines of majoritarian (e.g. US and UK) and consensus states (e.g. Germany, New Zealand, and EU). In the end, Lijphart argues that the consensus model is generally a bit better in representing the will of the citizens, but both have still advantages and disadvantages (the majoritarian is more effective in getting things done for example).

[@MDP1702]

@HarleyHilderson The mandatory vote causes a lot of protestvotes though. Eventhough they might not even be really supportive of most of a party's program, they might still vote for it to punish the other parties.

[@johanwittens7712]

6:15 This isn't entirely true. While it is true the literal parties themselves don't run in both regions, there are equivalent parties in each region. The PS in Wallonia has its equivalent in Flanders in the SPA, the MR is VLD in flanders, ECOLO has its equivalent in GROEN, CDH is CD&V, and so on. And these parties with similar political ideologies are often quite willing to cooperate with their counterparts from "the other side" to form a government. The largest problem is that for quite a few years and elections now, the largest party in Flanders have been the nationalist nva who want the independence of Flanders. So they do everything they can to block the formation of a functional federal government to show Belgium doesn't work and should split up. So it's in their own political interest for the formations of a federal government not to succeed. And since they hold a large part of the votes, they are able to make it very difficult for a federal government to form. Add on top of that the decades of animosity between the Walloon parties and the Flemish nationalists who have been demonising the Walloon parties for their political gain, you can see it becomes very difficult to form a federal government. The nationalists have no real interest in a successful federal government, but are the largest party in the most populous part of Belgium, and the Walloon parties don't want to form a federal government with a party that's been demonising them for decades... So hence the stalemate... This of course is a bit of a simplification, but it summarises the gist of the problem.

[@Ugapiku]

I love this channel

[@phebev9910]

As a Belgian, I think in a sense of mending the tension is going to have to start with very tiny steps. I think for that to happen, we should start sharing same media and cultural aspects. We don't watch the same tv shows, listen to the same music or listen to the same radio. I think that IF we want to stick together, we should share more of our cultures with eachother. Knowing that the french radio's never ever play any dutch songs is a troubled sign that we're just living next to eachtother than live with eachother

[@Klliansimabras]

Are Belgium going to dissolution ?

[@brechthaerynck1238]

​@@Klliansimabrasi hope so from a Flemming (Flanders)

[@instabile1984]

623 Days WFT? Within that amount of time, in Italy we change 3 or 4 Governments ahah

[@gerbo8018]

Meh we hold the world record of no chosen goverment ... And i don't think we beat it this time ... (not certain tough) Every election our politics are so locked up its just stupid. Basicly wallonie votes Socialism (ps = parti socialist) as they already recieve loads of money from flanders to stay afloat. And flanders votes to give less power to wallonie.. This is why the 2 flanders natioanal party's are the 2 biggest in flanders. (N-VA and VB)

[@Voyagerch75]

And then there is Brussels, a mostly French speaking enclave within Flanders... which complicates matters even more.

[@petero6471]

Not to mention English, Arabic, Turkish, Lingala, and a bunch of other languages. But thats a whole other can of worms.

[@peterfireflylund]

And all the French speakers who live in Flemish suburbs around Brussels...

[@appleslover]

Why is everyone named peter?

[@hydrocharis1]

Yes, Brussels is the economical motor of Belgium and there is no way one region would just give it to the other (by the way it's extra sensitive as Brussels is historically Dutch-speaking).

[@peterfireflylund]

Matthias Bouquet is it the “economic motor” or is it just where a lot of the tax money (and EU money) ends up?

[@alphamikeomega5728]

You could solve this easily by having each party propose a government, then having MPs choose between proposals with a Condorcet (a type of ranked-choice) method.

[@Sirocca]

We don't do easily! 😂

[@laithmeanslion]

When I saw the title, wait didn’t I see this like 2 days ago

[@harryvanrooy3322]

It’s not that simple, my friend😏, you forgot to include the Brussels situation. That’s the most difficult problem in the question of my beloved country separating or not and a whole lot of other issues and has its own parliament. To add to the confusion, it’s mostly French speaking, but is surrounded by Flemish speaking territory, it’s the Black dot on your maps. I would like to see you trying to explain that situation in a clear way as you did in this post😃.

[@Robbedem]

The flemish communes to the south of Brussels are French speaking... (yes, this makes it even more complicated!)

[@harryvanrooy3322]

Robbedem and maybe he should try to understand the “ facility “communities. That’ll take him some time.

[@jacobsxavier6082]

Let's keep the simple explanation, to begin with, or else we'll lose them in all our bullshit XD

[@Robbedem]

@@harryvanrooy3322 lol, yes :)

[@harryvanrooy3322]

Jacobs Xavier As we are lost ourselves, but most of us don’t really care.

[@liamjanssens7014]

3:46 "Being catholic themselves." Well it's more like we were forced to be catholic again by the Spanish. Antwerp was actually a big city for protestants before this.

[@ruffydoge5783]

I pass through 3 regions to get to school in Belgium... Brussels, Flanders then Wallonia... Perfection Its not actually that bad, except the 40 min bus ride lol

[@RJNanlal]

Switzerland as well has a proportional system for their National Assembly. But their building of their government is very unique and is the reason why Switzerland is regarded as stable. I would suggest to do a video on the Swiss system on voting but also on their referendums and initiatives

[@DeMatthias]

That's just false. Like you said we had a minority government and yes it had a limited time but it was an actual government. They could execute policies provided they have the votes like any other government. Edit: we can start counting again once Wilmes 1 expires.

[@TheJayman213]

Nation states are weird. They're all like "Every nation has a right to political self-determination" but when it comes to actually splitting a state along cultural lines, they always opt to instead stay a united state until hopefully the territory homogenizes somewhat and becomes a more unitary nation. It took centuries in Germany; Belgium, have fun... or you know, actually split up.

[@a2falcone]

Well, of course nation states are weird if they're not based upon a single nation, which is clearly Belgium's problem. I don't think Belgium even qualifies as a nation state.

[@attilaedem101]

the "self-determination" card are reserved for only the winners of the wars to justify border changes as their see fit - nothing more. In fact i can tell MORE chase when the ETHNIC LINE was pushed to fit the national line (khm... deporting germans from everywhere into germany after WW2; deporting Poles from the area which the USSR taken over from Poland; The Turkey-Greece soap opera which by now just ridiculous; Hungarians deported from where their lived in the last 1000 year just because their were Hungarians and losers of WW1 didnt deserve "self-determination"). The days of Belgium are counted, the only reason why the flandrians (i write it correctly?) didnt joined the Netherlands is because the religious differences (which is not an issue anymore), and keeping a nation together just didnt work in the long run if half of it (and especially if its the economic powerhouse part) want to separate from it.

[@yikes7918]

Things are not how you think they are. While it's true there are separatists in Belgium, they're not even close from being the majority and even if they were, it might still not be enough since you have to get 2/3 of the parliament to modify the constitution. You have this awkward picture of walloons and flemish not getting along well which is not true whatsoever. A part of my family is walloon while the other part is flemish and around half of adults in my family are perfect bilinguals and the other half can still speak the other language but not extremely fluently though. We get along very well, and many other families in Belgium are the same, the problem comes from right wing propaganda which is currently on the rise in the flemish community, since walloons are more pluricultural, they're quite opposed to far right parties which led to this separatism pulsion rising from those very parties.

[@satyr1349]

Fortunately I skipped over that other channels vid in utubes "recommendations' several times. Betting yours was far more in depth. On PR and the pro's and cons (much like another channels introduction and explanation to PR voting systems); yes I'd be interested. It would be an alternative if you discussed how each system works in, & affects the many EU nations from Ireland to Greece.

[@Youthure]

At 1:45 when discussing Belgian federalism, the map highlights the provinces. These are not comparable at all to “federal states”. It’s the regions who most closely resemble the federal states as seen in other countries. The provinces hold very few powers.

[@Schaapdatmekkert]

What also doesn't help is that in the 2019 election, a far-right Flemish party more or(e?) les advocating for dissolving Belgium, became the second largest party in Flanders, and no-one wants to form a government with them (except for the NVA maybeeeee ??????) But also as of writing this comment, it looks like we will have a government (leftist more ore les)

[@hiiamelecktro4985]

“Or(e)?” If you’re wondering about the spelling (and I’m gonna assume you speak dutch for this) “Or” betekent “of” (wat je waarschijnlijk al wist) “Ore” zijn erts die je onder de grond vind, zoals b.v. ijzererts. P.s. “les” wordt als “less” geschreven maar ik vermoed dat dat een typefout is die door snel te typen is gebeurd. aangezien ik die fout zelf vaak maak lol.

[@Schaapdatmekkert]

@@hiiamelecktro4985 dankuwel !!

[@hiiamelecktro4985]

Niels Geens Geen probleem :)

[@joelthomastr]

Belgium in 2020: A very different kind of dumpster fire

[@Ggdivhjkjl]

In regards to voting systems, please talk about ranked pairs and the STAR system. Thank you.

[@rodhayward836]

Seems like a nice place to live! Only have a Government when you absolutely need one.