My goals for my first marathon in July. 1. Don't poo myself 2. Finish
@EACORE10 ай бұрын
Samesis
@elnivekify10 ай бұрын
Isn't #2 the same as #1?
@SuperFuzzyDunlop10 ай бұрын
For #1, it's not a widely shared tip for obvious reasons, but I swear by an insertable anal douche the morning of a race or long run to trigger a movement if I still feel a little clogged. Also getting up and hydrating early, jumping up and down while brushing your teeth and caffeine help clear the pipes too.
@thejeffinvade10 ай бұрын
I did it last October, Managed to stumble and fall just 10k in, but still finished in 3:19 with a cut on my knees. You can do it too.
@SparkesIsRunning10 ай бұрын
oh so so get this!!
@dansmith401810 ай бұрын
I am doing my first marathon in Chicago at age 59 thanks to Tom (and Sarah) posting their run in 2023. Wish me luck.
@Zorp__143 ай бұрын
Good luck! You got this! 🎉
@jennabutler630410 ай бұрын
I attempted my first marathon in January. I started training 28 weeks in advance doing 2 strength sessions every week with a trainer and using a Running Channel training plan. I got a stress fracture about 10 weeks before the marathon, and only got up to 13 miles in my training plan. I decided to still give it a go Jan 7th. I only made it to 30km and then dropped below the pace requirement and was swept off the course. I found out a couple days later I also had covid! All this to say, you can train and plan and it still might not work out. Do your best and be proud of all your training and whatever you accomplish.
@ians398310 ай бұрын
Got my first marathon in April in Elgin I'm an older runner (67) and been in an 18 week training program hoping for 4 hours 30 minutes but 5 hours probably more like it failing those goals at least finish the race 👍
@brun477510 ай бұрын
I made the mistake of sprinting for the Brandenburger Tor at the end of the Berlin marathon. Definitely a good idea to check the course beforehand.
@TheHutchRuns10 ай бұрын
Tip 2 is, for me, the most important, hydration, fuelling, electrolytes, salt intake, these have all cost me on marathons before, followed by marathon training plan! The most important goal, especially on your first marathon, should be to finish, great video guys!
@maltejoppien10 ай бұрын
Training for my first Marathon in Hamburg April 28th. A - 4:15, B - 4:30, C - finish
@Mutticiu8 ай бұрын
Viel Erfolg :) Vielleicht begegnen wir uns ja bei den 4:15 pacern.
@mickfanning9310 ай бұрын
Would add practice racing. Have done 3 marathons and this is what im adding in for my current plan. Im doing a 10k this weekend, half marathon in may, marathon in October. It helps practice race technique and definitely helps me motivate in training through the year
@ResmonGonzalez3 ай бұрын
Preparing for my 1st Marathon ever at age 50! 😆: the 2024 BMW Berlin Marathon on September 29. Halfway through now with my final training preparations.
@headstart.running10 ай бұрын
Solid set of advice there Sarah & Mo! I'm about to run marathon #16 and pick up my 6⭐medal in Tokyo in 2 weeks time. That's been a 10 year goal in the making! (25,000km and 32+ pairs of shoes) Goals for this year: - sub 3:30 in Tokyo (never run
@Comradebird8810 ай бұрын
This will be my first marathon, Air Force Marathon September 2024. Goals 1. Finish 2. Time 4 hours, anything under is a plus
@JosMijnders10 ай бұрын
Signed up for my first ever marathon. Rotterdam on the 14th of April. Terrified and excited! Thanks for the tips, you guys motivated me for my first 5k in 2022 and you still keep doing that everytime!
@ShantyIrishman10 ай бұрын
Goals for 2nd marathon A - 4:30 B - 4:39 (time of first marathon) C - Don’t walk
@wiesorix10 ай бұрын
Basically the same for me. Should work for many people who are rather new to marathons A - ambitious time that is a nice round number B - faster than you've ever run before C - run another bloody marathon
@ShantyIrishman10 ай бұрын
@@wiesorix Forgot to mention, first marathon was Jersey City, 2nd will be NY, I'm three races down on my 9+1 for 2025.
@IgorPellinen8 ай бұрын
Have you run any half-marathons before the full one? If yes, what was the time? I'm planning to go for my first full one but not sure what time should I aim for.
@ShantyIrishman8 ай бұрын
@@IgorPellinen I ran 5 half marathons before my first marathon, finished between 2:00-2:10 each time. Realistically expect to add another 40 seconds to each mile from your half pace because each mile after mile 10 hits differently... Especially mile 20.
@IgorPellinen8 ай бұрын
@@ShantyIrishman Thank you for this information. My only HM time was 1:54:34, and can't say it was easy for me. Seems like according to your formula my estimate time should be 4:06:28. Not sure if even 4:15 is achievable for me actually but as a "plan A" it's a good starting point. Will check it in the end of August this year. Thank's again!
@paradox_300010 ай бұрын
I just completed my first half marathon on Sunday. I remembered a lot of these tips from previous videos, and they absolutely helped me. The aid station cup tip definitely helped me achieve my B and C goals. Someday I'll achieve my A goal too.
@harrywang679210 ай бұрын
Running the Austin Marathon in 3 days!! Perfect timing!
@runningchannel10 ай бұрын
Good luck!!
@ElyseMarieee10 ай бұрын
Me too! It’s my first marathon!! Good luck ❤❤
@BeautifulBCHomes10 ай бұрын
How did it go Harry?
@harrywang679210 ай бұрын
@@BeautifulBCHomes I did it in 4 hours! Not bad. I couldn't bend my right leg until today lol
@BeautifulBCHomes10 ай бұрын
@@harrywang6792 nice man good for you!!
@maxsweep10 ай бұрын
London for me this year. Also my first. Keep the videos coming all very useful. Maybe include a slower person 😅 so my 11:30 - 12:00 min miles don’t seem as bad.
@slowloris184710 ай бұрын
Training for Milton Keynes Marathon (first one). Goals... A. 3.50 B. Sub 4.00 C. Finish Lots of very sound advice. Thanks!
@shanaazpodmore53249 ай бұрын
Me too! I would like to finish in 5hrs30min. Good luck
@TheWolfhoundSabre3 ай бұрын
My "why" is to prove to myself that I own my body and Crohn's disease isn't going to dictate what I can do with it. Unfortunately, at 14 weeks into my 18 week training block my condition is flaring and I'll be starting new medication within the next few weeks, whenever insurance approves it. Mentally I'm at my lowest point. I missed my 9 mile run yesterday and only did 2 miles out of my 5 mile run this morning because I was concerned about worsening my fever... But I'm determined to complete this marathon, no matter how hard my body is fighting it. Hopefully I can make next week's 20mi run, that's the longest one in my training block. My goals: A) Finish sub 5 hours B) Finish without walking C) Finish.
@collierellis55310 ай бұрын
I just started training for my first marathon. My "A" goal is to finish under 4 hours, my "B" goal is to finish under 5 hours, and my "C" goal is to just finish.
@duncanbisatt439210 ай бұрын
Brighton in just over seven weeks. It seemed like a good idea at the time. Less worried about the running than about all the faff before and after. A.4:20 B: 4:30 C: finish.
@runningchannel10 ай бұрын
💪💪
@reinapearse911110 ай бұрын
We Training for Two Oceans in South Africa in April. So excited 😊
@crystal426052 күн бұрын
Goals for first marathon. which is in 2 days: A. under 6 B. finish before 6:30 cutoff C. complete distance regardless of time Reason for running: my son is watching and I want to set a good example and be around as long as i can for him.
@hermeticallysealed10 ай бұрын
first marathon is pittsburgh in may and tbqh i just want to be proud of my effort no matter what happens
@PittsburghDisneyFans10 ай бұрын
I'll see you there!
@Ruateddybear210 ай бұрын
Just to finish! It will be my 28th marathon. I just turned 47 and it’s all about my health and happiness!!!
@EelcoZomer10 ай бұрын
First marathon 21st of April in Enschede, the Netherlands! And second is Berlin, first skating it and then running. Training is strong, looking forward to it. Thanks for the tips.
@benoneill788310 ай бұрын
I am in week 3 of an 18 week training programme for the Cork marathon on the 2nd of June. This will be my 2nd marathon, having done the Dublin marathon in October. Have learned a lot from my experience in Dublin and all the fantastic tips and encouragement from The running channel. Dublin was 4:06:43. I hope to break 4 in Cork. I made a hugh mistake in Dublin that I have never, ever made on any run. Being my first marathon I got so caught up in all the excitement and with meeting two of my cousins beforehand who were also running, I forgot to warm up and stretch. (BEFORE A MARATHON) I paid for that in the last 8km when my legs just switched off. If it wasn't for all the tips on mental strength and pushing yourself through from the running channel I would have stopped. Thank you. Always look forward to your amazing videos
@faykellett958910 ай бұрын
I'm in a 20 week training plan for Cork 😊 I'll see you there! This will be my first, very best of luck breaking 4 hrs! I think Cork is flatter than Dublin, hills are between 18-22miles so save a bit for that
@benoneill788310 ай бұрын
@@faykellett9589 Jesus, placing hills between 18 and 22 miles. Somebody likes to see people suffer😂😂. Good luck with your training and the race itself. It will be an amazing experience 🏃♀️👍
@jps587110 ай бұрын
I am running my first marathon January in Houston TX. Just finished an intense year racing my first and second half marathon. Been running for 3 years at 56. Not a fast runner but really getting consistent with even pacing.
@TimothyBosworth-q6h10 ай бұрын
I've been watching you guys for sometime now and decided to do my first marathon which is in Barcelona on march 10th Thanks for all the advise you give in your channel - it really has helped!!
@AnthonyMcqueen198710 ай бұрын
After 6 months of training have my second and last marathon next Sunday Ventura Marathon. I did all I could and hope for the best.
@tudorcardas746210 ай бұрын
This comes in 7 weeks out before my first marathon, couldn't have been a better timing!
@lewisnbeans10 ай бұрын
7 weeks for me......Southampton ?
@tudorcardas746210 ай бұрын
@@lewisnbeans Paris...good luck on yours! Hope the build-up goes as planned
@Heleen_Hikes10 ай бұрын
Thanks for the tips! Training for my first marathon in Copenhagen! Primary goal: make it to the start line! And then we hope to make it to the finish too :)
@ethanweed9 ай бұрын
Me too! Only 68 days to go. Not that I’m counting 😬
@edithgruber212510 ай бұрын
These are rock solid marathon tips, thank you for breaking down the process of getting ready for a marathon. I would add to those the importance of training to current ability, not to goal pace. At the beginning of my last marathon block, I was in shape for about 8:30 m/m (5:17 min/km) as my marathon pace. Finish time would be about 3:43 with that initial fitness. So my first MP sessions were around that, 8:20-8:30, just a smidge faster. As I progressed through the 18 week plan, I got fitter and MP got faster, 8:10-15. Midway through the plan in week 10, I managed to run a half in 1:45:47, 8:05 m/m (5:01 min/km) at marathon intensity, i.e. I wasn't racing it as a half marathon but stuck to the target power and HR zone. By the end of the plan, I reached my goal of running a sub-3:30 marathon, 3:29:36, bang on 8 m/m pace or 4:58 min/km. If you train at goal marathon pace from the beginning, you are training too hard and you don't develop the energy systems you need for sustaining marathon pace for the duration of the race. In the same vein, my threshold pace improved from about 7:50 m/m to 7:30 m/m over the course of the plan. My threshold sessions were initially at 7:45-50 and got faster with time. So my tip #8 would be to be realistic about your current abilities and to execute your training session to purpose. If I had tried to run my MP runs at goal pace of 8 m/m from week 1, I would have run close to my threshold, therefore not targeting what I needed to train in that session. I made that mistake in earlier sub 3:30 attempts and they all failed. This spring, my target is Leipzig Marathon on 21st April. My A goal is running a 3:25, B goal is repeating last year with a sub-3:30 and C goal is sub 3:40, a BQ for me. I couldn't train my normal 18 weeks block due to illness, so my A goal is just a slight improvement from last year because of the lack of training. Going sub 3:25 will be challenging.
@laneystain10 ай бұрын
Started my training for Copenhagen this week having done my first marathon in Valencia back in December. I'd fully agree with all of these tips; really helpful to everyone watching about to run their first one!
@badbeat81478 ай бұрын
Running my first tomorrow in NW Arkansas called the Hogeye. Been training since late October and have battled through so many different issues. My latest battle has been significant knee pain that put my training to a halt. It has taken several weeks to slowly build back up after healing and nervous how this will affect the race. I’m very excited about the race, though, and plan to continue running after this first achievement. Thanks for the tips and good luck out there!
@plowestv10 ай бұрын
Thanks
@runningchannel10 ай бұрын
Thank you so much that's so kind!
@nathanbungay63469 ай бұрын
I have done the last 4 Birmingham Half Marathons and the last 3 Solihull Half Marathons. I am doing my first marathon in April which is the London Marathon. I am on week 9 of your training plan. It was my 50th birthday a few weeks ago.
@KinHernandezApparently10 ай бұрын
This video couldn’t have dropped at a better time. I’m running my first marathon this Sunday! The cup trick I’m definitely gonna utilize. Thanks!
@runningchannel10 ай бұрын
Good luck!!!
@sarahf837210 ай бұрын
Seville? If so, me too!
@lyndsaymaria10 ай бұрын
You guys are killing it with the content! I have a question for the podcast - I am currently out with a knee injury, nothing serious, but will be resting for at least a week. How quickly do you lose fitness when you completely stop running, and can you jump back in at your usual mileage when the injury has healed if it wasn't a severe or serious injury? ❤
@hannahcollardgray444810 ай бұрын
I might see you in London. It’s my first this year. Goal A: to finish in 3:30, goal B: To finish in 4:00 goal C: To finish because it will automatically be a PB.
@runningchannel10 ай бұрын
🙌🙌🎉
@rishikanbi10 ай бұрын
"Taken on over 100 marathons" James with 80% of those: sips his morning coffee ❤
@BeautifulBCHomes10 ай бұрын
Got my first trail marathon coming up in April. Just trying to crush as many miles as I can leading up. The Strava app has been a good motivator. Also set two sub goals of 1 mile in 7 minutes and 3 miles in 27 minutes to work on short term pacing as well. Good luck all!!
@SK_bombardiers10 ай бұрын
Got 8 weeks till my first marathon in Manchester! Videos like this are really helping settle the nerves!
@runningchannel10 ай бұрын
Good luck!! You can do it!
@danabecton673110 ай бұрын
I’m in week 13 of training for the Myrtle Beach Marathon the 2nd of March in South Carolina. After starting running in January of 2022 I attempted my first marathon in 2023 with very little training, hit the wall at mile 14, finishing in 5 hours 12 minutes. Hopefully will do better this time around.
@HamishGray10 ай бұрын
My goals are to just finish sub 4 and avoid walking at any point. I don't follow plans for marathons but I do for ultra's. I've got two booked this year...first in Paris then Moray back home in Scotland. Using them as training runs. I'll be waiting till next year before I follow a sub 3:30 plan (to try beat my dads time 3:28) and then continuing the chase for Boston qualifying time.
@ElisaShaffer10 ай бұрын
Currently training for the Oklahoma City Marathon on April 28. It's my second marathon. Been sick and had a hard time on the training block but hopefully still enough time to get it all in. :)
@sockmerchant10 ай бұрын
I'm currently training for my first marathon. The Hawkes Bay marathon in NZ
@corndogg198410 ай бұрын
I’m 7 weeks into my first marathon training block. The road to Manchester marathon is a long one but I can’t wait for the race day feels 🎉
@Ginerick7 ай бұрын
First marathon in November in Indy. Can’t wait
@YinChuRijnaard6 ай бұрын
I'm currently training for my first marathon, the Antwerp Marathon in October of this year! :)
@invisi14078 ай бұрын
I have a half marathon in a few weeks that I'm not worried about, but I signed up for Westenergie Marathon in Essen, Germany which is on October 13th 2024! My longest run so far has been 33 km in 3h 13m so I guess my primary goal for the marathon is like 4:30, secondary 4:40, and tertiary is just to finish, hah.
@vmaida10 ай бұрын
I'm training for the Generali Genève Marathon in May. I'm 51 years old and it will be my first marathon. My goals are: a) to finish the race in 3h45 or less; b) to finish the race under 4h; c) to finish the race.
@jennic168410 ай бұрын
I'm 8 weeks away from my first marathon, so this video was super helpful. I'm terrified but also excited!
@bigben910010 ай бұрын
I'm training for the Norfolk marathon in Cromer at the end of April, have to say I'm loving training (at the moment!)
@garyviall960710 ай бұрын
Great tips not just for NEW marathoners
@sundaystride10 ай бұрын
Agreeeed!
@juliaweatherspoon32869 ай бұрын
This was a great video! Thank you. I’m going to sign up for Chicago Marathon in October! I’m already half marathon ready!
@paulreilly53205 ай бұрын
Hey, i am new to your videos, i am doing my first marathon in October im on week 5 of my trainning plan going well so far, im enjoying your videos there a great help for my training, Thank you
@adriennewasch668210 ай бұрын
A full marathon is on my bucket list so these tips are very appreciated!
@rick-yo10 ай бұрын
Love the content. Find it hard to focus when you’re talking while running and the background is moving up and down. I get the point this is about running!
@DaveOwenEdinburgh10 ай бұрын
I love watching TRC videos and experiencing the dawning realisation that you're somewhere I've run myself. Burgess Park!
@plowestv10 ай бұрын
Hi Mo, Sarah. So really great ideas and tips here. I'm going to watch this again to make my prep more varied this time. Done a few marathons and an ultra but the best experiences have been when time was secondary so good to hear Sarah in particular talking about her goal of 'having the best day ever' :-) My next marathon / ultra is in 5 weeks and so far I've done my 2 10k runs, next up 21k, and 35k runs and i will be ready . Good luck everyone as there are always problems :-)
@Ross86710 ай бұрын
10 weeks till my first marathon, great timing
@simontaylor755410 ай бұрын
1st Marathon- London 🥳 If all goes well Cape Town next year 😎
@leolaf650110 ай бұрын
A few weeks ago i signed up for a half marathon in the Swiss alps, its gonna be epic im such a noob but Im hyped to rock it 😂
@lazzaboyman800310 ай бұрын
Training for my first road marathon having previously done 7 trail marathons. I’ll be running with my son, it’s his very first marathon.
@ianclifford394710 ай бұрын
Know your route. You are 100% correct. Thought I knew the Sydney Marathon route, only to discover how steep the rise from the landmark " Mrs Macquarie's Chair" is. Kms 40 and 41, that I have walked 100 times are a different beast when running. Get to intimately know the route.
@stianaajohansen10 ай бұрын
I am currently training for my first half marathon in Bergen in April. Then I have signed up for my first marathon in Oslo in September 😬
@rce191210 ай бұрын
Preparing for the July 2024 Gold Coast Marathon in Queensland, Australia!
@Rob_Gilbert10 ай бұрын
Great advice guys, it’s my first ever marathon at London. I didn’t actually enter the marathon as I won a ballot place
@sarahj531310 ай бұрын
Great timing for this, I’m doing London as my first marathon 😀 x
@sundaystride10 ай бұрын
I haven't ran a Full Marathon yet.. These tips will keep me in line !!
@Snerunseasy10 ай бұрын
Great video guys 👌🏾, My goals this year is sub3 marathon at end of the year (October/November)... currently at 3:30PR - going for 3:20 PR next week (25 February).
@kamallewis-gopie695610 ай бұрын
Doing my first marathon either here in Barbados in December or in Miami in January. A timely video 😁
@runningchannel10 ай бұрын
Have fun!
@mayrice948110 ай бұрын
I'm doing the Cork marathon at the start of June! Currently on week 3 of training
@runningchannel10 ай бұрын
Good luck!!!
@marcleong8010 ай бұрын
Great tips and good timing I have my first marathon in 6 months.
@anjacoetzee93276 ай бұрын
I think my why is very similiar to Sarah’s. I only started seriously running at the age of 23/24 and only started long distance in 2023. I was never an athlete in school, but I love being able to show myself I can do challenging things like a marathon. It helps in other areas of my life as well like my work goals. I am going to be running the Cape Town marathon in October 😮💨
@jakeyadao10 ай бұрын
Running Napa on March 3rd! Going for sub 4 hours… I’ve held myself accountable by filming my journey!
@eleanorbassett55369 ай бұрын
I'm training for the Wellington Marathon as my first full..... aiming for completion, but under 4hrs would be great!
@bethanykatedavey9 ай бұрын
Have recently my first marathon in Sydney, Australia for September! A: 5 hours B: No walking C: Finish it!
@LifeBeautifulMess4 ай бұрын
I've always trained beyond the distance I was racing....after several half marathons, tackling the full in 2 weeks. Petrified because the longest training run has been 21 miles and the thought of doing 5 more is terrifying. Best advice, don't think if you have done a half, the full will be anything like it, body aches, pace, emotions.
@Justin-uc8sc10 ай бұрын
I believe the biggest tip to keep in mind is that you are racing your mind just as much as you are racing the distance. Everyone is hurting and struggling in a marathon, just like you are, but if you don’t have the mental discipline to keep moving then you will find yourself in a bad place and it will demoralize you. One marathon I ran was in the Spring after taking 4 months off all Winter, and I only trained a total of 50km before the race, and still managed to run my fastest marathon at the time. A lot of your success will come from your mind.
@POPMILZEspanol10 ай бұрын
Those comments were very helpful!
@MrShoebox1976uk9 ай бұрын
Goals for Loch Ness in September: 1) Do better than Brighton when I messed it up. 2) Try and enjoy it. There's a reason why I've picked a, supposedly, picturesque one
@jassaljs10 ай бұрын
Thanks guys!! Though these are oft repeated but remain the golden mantra🤗
@trai1kick3r4 ай бұрын
So many good tips here! I finished my first marathon this last weekend. I ended up bonking at mile 18, but I finished and that was my goal, even if I had to crawl 😅.
@runningchannel4 ай бұрын
Amazing well done!!
@stoffemson7 ай бұрын
Running my first marathon in 2 weeks and 5 days in Stockholm. I've been feeling very excited till yesterday, now the nerves are setting in. What did i sign up for?! 😬 😂 Is my 16 week plan enough! 🤔 Your videos have definitely helped and motivated me since I started running two years ago. Thanks!
@sophiebennettdiplcm823610 ай бұрын
Oooo Sarah i'm also doing London :) This will be my first ever marathon eek!
@stuartcampbell210710 ай бұрын
Running Brighton in a couple of months so this is ideal!
@craigpears500310 ай бұрын
I am training for Chester marathon in October. I have ran a handful of marathons and a couple of ultras before, but I have never followed a training plan. Hopefully using runna will see some good improvements.
@runningchannel10 ай бұрын
Good luck Craig! How are you finding the training plan?
@lukthijs908810 ай бұрын
Thanks for the useful tips! Busy with the last weeks of my training plan for my first marathon. I’ve chosen Rome (17 Mar). Seems cool to finish my first marathon right next to the colosseum 😅
@laurenogbourne9459 ай бұрын
I'm doing my first marathon in Brighton I did my first half last Sunday now I'm doing my first marathon in 5 weeks :')
@severiner716810 ай бұрын
I think you are right Sarah, London doesnt feel like the place to get a pb but to have a good time (I did it a few years ago and there's loads to see and hear)
@stuffnuggets-ashwoodrow44889 ай бұрын
Great video guys 👍🏼Will the green Running Channel tops be available to buy?
@thebatmanrises10 ай бұрын
Thanks for the tips Sarah and friend👍
@mikecardenas487710 ай бұрын
Training for the Chicago Marathon this year.
@Jamieallthegearnoidea10 ай бұрын
Melbourne marathon this year in October! Perhaps the running Channel will make it out to Aus one day ;)
@everydayvetpowell79599 ай бұрын
Im am training to the Bataan Death march marathon for next year. This is my first one and i am just hoping to finish within 4 hrs.
@myosotis58410 ай бұрын
First marathon in a month in Ghent! :)
@iggalan10 ай бұрын
Plan your hydration and nutrition for the race, they are key in a race that long, and you need to practice it early in your training so you can adapt it to your preferences/needs. In may case I will take 60 g carbs/h; since I plan to do a 3h45m marathon I will carry 8 gels of 30 g each. Set an alarm in your watch to remind you to take a gel, it's easy to forget about it. Also in my case I know I will loose a lot of salts because of the mild temps during the race, in order to avoid cramps I will take salts every 60 minutes as well.
@runningchannel10 ай бұрын
👏👏👏
@markhill859010 ай бұрын
First marathon is Manchester on april the 14th and after watching andys marathon in valencia and im dreading it 🙈
@garybc10 ай бұрын
Great vid guys! I’ll be doing my very first marathon in less than 24 hours!!! I’ve a target time but, as you guys said, i just want to finish with (still) a smile on my face. 😊
@PUSH_PULL_sc3 ай бұрын
achievement, precursor to enjoy running, discipline & self discovery