7700-RPM JUNKYARD 5.3L LS INTAKE TEST. HI RAM VS LOW RAM-WHICH HOLLEY LS INTAKE MAKES THE MOST HP?

[@WildEngineering]

I absolutely love that you're willing to try "stupid"(read as unconventional) things on the dyno like removing the lid of the intake.

[@richardholdener1727]

I have done that several times now-on the FR500 Ford, on the Perf Design LS

[@WildEngineering]

@@richardholdener1727 yes and please dont stop! :)

[@jonathancorbett5917]

And the 3800 (blower) intake plate

[@dangerds1]

The most gangster move pulling that lid off at the start of the run , you a real one 💯

[@richardholdener1727]

it started to suck in the o ring-I had to wrestle it back out

[@charlesmyers9765]

That's why the active intake in the Dodge 392 switches to short runners above 4000rpm.

[@davidgagliardo3258]

In my '57 Chevy, I have what started out as a Chevy Performance crate LS3, and added a Texas Speed Stage 3 NA cam, the Holley Hi-Ram, and 1-3/4" long tube headers. Together with 4.11 gears and a Circle D 4,200 stall converter, it runs great on the street, especially when I stand on the gas. :)

[@chipcurrey653]

The Holley hi ram is worse than the stock Ls3 intake kzbin.info/www/bejne/q2KwmYKIet5_ack

[@EzequielRobles_]

I just bought a 2003 Cateye with a 5.3 in it and having no previous engine knowledge besides routine maintenance, i can't thank you enough for your videos! Goal is to make her a pretty quick race truck, but i'm starting out slow and working my way up. subscribed!

[@diamondboy3456]

I just picked up a 04 tahoe that has a 5.3 im trying to figure out what i can do to this thing 😂 i know the 4l60 is slipping a bit

[@EzequielRobles_]

@@diamondboy3456 tell me why the alternator went out on mine and when we were looking up the alternator for the 5.3 it didn’t match the one I brought into the store. I looked up the engine cover name and it turns out it has a 6.0😅😂 merry Christmas to me!

[@SpecialAgentJamesAki]

That lid off was one of the best things I’ve seen 😆

[@brianwills4398]

I just picked up this high-rise for my cbm ls. No hood on this one, it's a baja bug. This thing rips🤙

[@jackruss5056]

Where’s the lid off chart? That’s a very interesting component to this comparison- as the air doesn’t like to turn. I’ll bet it had some remarkable results!

[@baby-sharkgto4902]

I love the way the high ram and even the low ram look, I love the way the sheet metal intakes look… but I am loyal to the FAST because it has gobs more of torque and power over them. Gobs more.

[@ChingoMandinguez]

GOBS MORE!

[@baby-sharkgto4902]

@@ChingoMandinguez 💯

[@jamesharrison6201]

I'm thinking the tall ram will produce peak torque lower in the RPM range.

[@kellyheath8547]

Now that you did the no lid test, I want a holdener powered variable length intake runner test. Pull the lid, slap in place runner extensions and then pull those as revs pass 5500 or 6k.

[@TheSunChaserUS]

Im printing a variable intake, but for 4.6 2v. 5” of movement on the runners from 15” to 10”. Lets hope i can nail this fast, i’d be more than happy to send it to RH for a test

[@james10739]

Now I saw him do the no lid test I want to see a no intake test but you would have to figure out injectors

[@riccocool]

The coolest best air to pull into the engine is where the back glass meets the deckild. Roof Runner Ram.

[@richardholdener1727]

no intake makes even less power

[@james10739]

@@richardholdener1727 you just got to spin it to 15,000 rpm

[@knowplay3258]

Always playing with the cathedral port motors...while us LS3 guys wanna know how this would work on our rec ports!! LoL!!! Great video!!!

[@richardholdener1727]

works the same

[@dustyscott759]

Keep up the good work always love watching your videos I’m always learning from you and I’ve very thankful for that. Happy holidays to u and yours

[@3800S1]

The low ram is very similar to the stock manifolds on my Buick V6s, not idea for stock to medium cams but decent for the bigger cams. I have a cam set aside for a later project that is 262/262 deg, 303/303 advertised, but even then it's still a bit on the short side for the ideal runner length. But otherwise it's very well designed with a good area for the runners to support pretty wild builds, tapered runner as well. The major difference to this Holley though is the plenum on mine are a sideways oval log-ish plenum which allowed the top side of the tapper to extend all the way to the top of the plenum, while the bottom side is rather short like the Holley low ram. I can't recall exactly on the length of the runner, but the middle (average length) from back of valve to the opening in the plenum is 245mm. Mine is actually called in the community the high ram, there is a even lower ram version used in the previous gen LN3.

[@dustyscott759]

I’d be interested to see what the stock intake does in comparison to these on the hp and torque curve down low, as well as sheet metal intakes vs cast

[@LSturboguy]

so do I if a stock makes more down low to mid under 5500-6000 whats the point even making them, but you have a lot of people making them like BTR, plasmaman so whats the difference between them, these are probably more for boost

[@sepg5084]

​​​@@LSturboguy Some people use their cars for racing and operate their engines at high rpms, with gear ratios to match, higher rpms than what most road cars operate on. And if stock intakes don't suit their operating rpm range, then they look to the aftermarket. Setup for drag racing is different vs. autocross, setup for autocross is different vs. time attack, etc. Slapping parts on your car without actually having a target performance goal is a waste of money.

[@malamri424]

The high ram is good performing but fitment is usually an issue

[@overcastfriday81]

If your toy is a Pantera or Mangusta, you can play around with tall intake manifolds, GMC style blowers, etc. The engine is behind the driver so a "tall" engine is not an aerodynamic or aesthetic concern.

[@troy8940]

Once again class has been very interesting thank you very much teacher and I shall continue To stay close attentive.😀

[@bobqzzi]

Hard to beat the better versions of the stock manifolds and they fir any vehicle

[@rolandopena3510]

Hey Richard are you ever going to revisit the l28et? Maybe dyno and test upgrades. The Datsun guys would really appreciate it 😂

[@johnelliott7375]

Crazy 🤣 Sorry I missed some mission about no lid or throttle body.😮

[@christapherwainscott4347]

Would be interesting to see a comparison with the "sandwich" style intercoolers (tick performance etc.)

[@runslikeapenguin]

those intakes are like the single planes of the LS world.

[@francisbeaudry8598]

nice vidéo rick tanks so mutch merci beaucoup

[@jeffdickson902]

Explain the electrical storm going on , on the valve cover.

[@richardholdener1727]

look closer-that is tape flapping in the wind from the dyno fan

[@Rrottweiler]

That no lid test was wild :D

[@richardholdener1727]

I will try that again-it has always made more power

[@Rrottweiler]

Its so strange to see gasoline engine without throttlebody etc. I know diesel can do that, even did with my 6.2D when swapped intake... it just looks so wrong. @@richardholdener1727

[@danr9584]

@@richardholdener1727 how does the tune get affected after taking off the lid? Any input from the MAP sensor would be off.

[@richardholdener1727]

the map sensor reads the same-since you are at or near 100 kpa at wot

[@Nayr6297]

You Should Do Another HighRam Test ... But Use The One That Has The Water Methanol Injection System On It ... Show How Much Difference Adding That To A N/A Engine Makes ...

[@albertdelossantos8936]

Hey Richard. Thanks for your content. Can you help on which Holley Hi/Rise is right for my application. I have a sbf 302 bored out to a 347 stroker.

[@richardholdener1727]

Hi Ram

[@pyric]

would have been nice to include the stock intake graph

[@richardholdener1727]

not really

[@jimlathrop8603]

When you took the lid off, it made me wonder about 8 stack systems vs hi ram single throttle. Seems to me if both were same overall length, hi ram wins because of lack of turbulence caused by the internal t valve. Ever test this comparison? 8 stack wins the cool factor hands down though!

[@richardholdener1727]

open plenum has always made more power, I will redo that test-there was a problem with this one

[@twinturbocoyoteftw]

Would you expect better or the same results on 6.0 ls2 with the comp 459 cam and TEA 799 cnc port heads?

[@richardholdener1727]

the intake runner length always does this-the cross over might happen 100-200 rpm earlier with bigger motors

[@twinturbocoyoteftw]

@@richardholdener1727 Thank you Richard I always enjoy your videos and even better when you answer!

[@MADDMERK]

Who needs shop towels to wipe you hands, when you have your pants 😊

[@JKExpeditorz-kt9hs]

Hey Richard great videos man, was wondering if you had any info on an amount of boost that is safe with no ring gap on a gen 3 6.0

[@richardholdener1727]

no way to know

[@paintballhallic]

Do you have a go to kit for afm 5.3 delete? Do you have a throttle preference wire or cable? Pros and cons for each? Do you have a website with a list of parts tested and combination hp?

[@richardholdener1727]

BTR and others have delete kits. I like a cable (especially on the dyno). no website

[@AdamThompson-u7k]

Curious how or if an intake mounted intercooler would affect these results or does everyone believe we would end up with similar results?

[@richardholdener1727]

intercooler on an na motor?

[@AdamThompson-u7k]

@@richardholdener1727 sorry sir I should have provided more info. my situation is a simple twin turbo build sbe l33 5.3 with 366s.I don’t plan on spinning anywhere near where either of them are gonna provide the positives. Plan for a future piston rod 6 liter in the future . But have to use one of them at this point and have a large shearer unit with a low ram already. Due to looking better I previously had a high ram and it was just so tall tho I could use it,I opted to get a low ram just to bring the height down.

[@AdamThompson-u7k]

I’m also using a shearer fab lid instead of the Holley top. I appreciate your replies greatly

[@lutherjackson_]

Will the High Ram fit under the hood of a 86 C10

[@loundclear9279]

from this test the ultra low ram from holley would be even more loss in the mid range. that hi ram is hard to fit either cut a hole buy a hood lower the motor lower the k member lol but another note how would the trickflow split intake and elbow do?

[@benwalker6591]

I know you are testing the ram style manifolds but how do they compare to the midrise holley manifold.

[@richardholdener1727]

the mid rise is not great-see the big intake test video

[@MrChevrolet94]

I love this monster!!!!

[@stephenwhite5444]

How does a turbo change this....or does it? Will the long runners still make more through the power band with a turbo?

[@richardholdener1727]

long runners do what they do NA and under boost

[@dawoudali6748]

is it the same on boosted V8 engines? is the longrunner is better overall than the shortrunner manifolds?

[@richardholdener1727]

works the same under boost

[@302hobronco]

What did the pull look like without the top part?

[@2oversteer53]

Richard can you build a efi sbf 363 stroker motor with I mild cam hyd roller and put it on the dyno

[@richardholdener1727]

that video is up

[@shane-222]

Compare the same combo with the FAST LSXR!!! Waaaaa🎉

[@richardholdener1727]

we ran the fast lsxr previously on this motor-but smaller cam

[@shane-222]

@@richardholdener1727 cool! I’ll look for it, but you should run it with the same cam, 3-way shoot out. Lid off made no difference?

[@lsonechevelle]

Would moving the throttle body further from the intake on the low ram, increase plenum volume enough to gain any losses back?

[@richardholdener1727]

plenum vole changes things very little

[@lsonechevelle]

@@richardholdener1727 thanks!

[@anthonypritchard7710]

Any idea of the wet flow characteristics of the ultra low ram intake? My vette makes 680hp has meth injection with a stock ls1 intake so I need a better intake for my setup.

[@richardholdener1727]

are you asking about flow or distribution

[@anthonypritchard7710]

⁠@@richardholdener1727distribution.

[@martygrajeda3457]

Richard what do you think about the Texas Speed SR3 Titan?

[@richardholdener1727]

never tried it

[@martygrajeda3457]

@@richardholdener1727 okay thanks!

[@youritake8618]

Could you do a test where you run the m90 on the low ram?

[@richardholdener1727]

I will-but you will see the same thing we saw NA-it will make less torque

[@johnnystanley4469]

Great tech video

[@gnd111]

Chrysler know that in early 60s with long ram Wedge motors

[@bowtiejake]

What about the ultra low?

[@richardholdener1727]

even less torque

[@916chevyboy]

No such as Stupid or unconventional.That would say NDT/DT testing serves minimal gain ; As an engineer you should understand, theirs just the untested! 🍻

[@davidresar8256]

Did i miss the graphs for no lid?

[@richardholdener1727]

was not provided

[@davidresar8256]

@richardholdener1727 Yeah, I watched it again to see... Are you gonna leave me hanging?

[@richardholdener1727]

there was an issue with that test-will retest-but it has always shown power gains

[@davidresar8256]

@richardholdener1727 Now we are getting somewhere... I could take that to imply the lid, and the throttle body are restrictions... hmmmm! Thank you, sir!

[@chrisgallimore9083]

Low ram vs. Truck manifold please.

[@moretunman]

Love your vids Richard! Do you have an email or platform I can ask questions about LS stuff please? Thank you!

[@richardholdener1727]

come to the live feeds-nightly 7 pm pst and then one random one during the day

[@DesTakeFlight]

U should test the Holley ultra low ram Richard when ever u get a chance I would really like to Know what the ultra low ram puts out

[@richardholdener1727]

would be even worse

[@DesTakeFlight]

@@richardholdener1727 oh ok fasho! Thanks

[@warrenbleakley3255]

Why didn’t you run the Holley mid ram in this test as well ?

[@richardholdener1727]

it doesn't do well-I have tested it many times

[@J-RocksCustoms]

Have you tested the Holley single plane intake with the Holley 4150 throttle body yet?

[@richardholdener1727]

I have run that intake

[@allenmccall5021]

​@@richardholdener1727what was the results?

[@hansjochen6257]

Runner Length on the hi ram is 6.50 inch.Is that correct? thanks

[@richardholdener1727]

near that

[@GTXTi-ob2cm]

Max effort na 5.3 I want to leave the block untouched but not SBE methanol and carb what pistons and rods and cam to make a lot of hp

[@richardholdener1727]

small dome, with valve reliefs, 6.125 rods

[@MotorSportAndTools]

Richard! In any world, does boost change power curves?

[@richardholdener1727]

if you can make the boost the same at every rpm-then the shape of the curve is the same. If you make other changes (short-runner intake for instance on a PD blower) or the rising boost curve of a centrifugal-that changes the curve according to the supplied boost

[@MotorSportAndTools]

@@richardholdener1727 👍thankyou

[@177SCmaro]

Whats a good low profile intake for the LM4/L33, under 6500rpm, street/drag race? I have an LS swap I'm working on where hood clearance is really tight. I was thinking maybe ls3 with adaports but I'm not as familar with whats available for the LS.

[@codystrom8708]

Can’t go wrong with the “fast lsxr” intake! Great on anything with tight clearance and makes the same power or more than most other options.

[@richardholdener1727]

ls3 adapter is not good-use the ls6, Dorman LS2 or Fast

[@177SCmaro]

@@codystrom8708 Thanks.👍

[@177SCmaro]

@@richardholdener1727 Thanks 👍

[@177SCmaro]

Also, wow, all of thouse manifolds are 1000 bucks. I thought LS stuff was supposed to be the more affordable option. The gen 3 intake on my coyote was like $300.

[@Aboyzwildin_]

Great video!! Could you do a test on the new one 105mm tb vs 92 tb or 102mm tb?

[@richardholdener1727]

won't show anything on this motor

[@Aboyzwildin_]

@@richardholdener1727 Let’s do it on a turbo application 😎

[@richardholdener1727]

would show even less on a turbo motor

[@kylemilligan752]

Cut some valve reliefs, and more cam duration please!!!!!!!!!

[@scotthultin7769]

Hi Richard I have a question the crankshaft turns twice as fast as camshaft So at 7700 RPMs you were talking about the camshaft speed In reality the crankshafts turn in 15,400

[@dreadnaught688]

The camshaft turns at 1/2 the crankshaft speed. Engine RPM is measured at the crankshaft. Hope this helps

[@Prestiged_peck]

You are correct about the speed relation, but engine RPM is measured at the crankshaft since the output is tied to the crankshaft.

[@richardholdener1727]

crank spins 7700 rpm, cam spins 1/2 that

[@jplperformance9073]

AWSOME video

[@horsefly1020]

We need a ultra high ram that sticks out the hood.

[@lilmacu23]

Can you do some l77 stuff

[@richardholdener1727]

works the same

[@whays]

Dyno Shorts! You could probably start a new fad. I mean people are wearing brand new jeans with holes in them.

[@spud369]

Now do a vid with turbos por favor

[@richardholdener1727]

does the same thing

[@ImNotHereToArgueFacts]

Where's the throttle body cam?

[@baby-sharkgto4902]

You don’t need a specific cam for throttle bodies 🤣🤣🤣 inside joke

[@richardholdener1727]

#wrongthrottlebodycam

[@ImNotHereToArgueFacts]

For anyone who didn't get it... He has a carb cam. I was interested in seeing/hearing throttle response and lag time from WOT.

[@hondatech5000]

@@baby-sharkgto4902 rofl

[@isidrosevier1125]

Is there not a medium length intake?

[@richardholdener1727]

they make a mid rise-but it's not good

[@isidrosevier1125]

@@richardholdener1727 gotcha, thank you. So for daily driving and the occasional track day or street race in Mexico. Would you recommend a long runner

[@taylormade4049]

PLEASE DO A MID RISE PLEASE!!??

[@richardholdener1727]

I have tested that many times-it does not do well-and will not be in the middle of these two

[@toddbuettner3956]

Will the high ram fit a 5.7 hemi?

[@richardholdener1727]

they make one for that motor

[@toddbuettner3956]

@@richardholdener1727 I don't get the time to research like I did back in my teens.. Tyvm Richard.

[@allenl9031]

M90 on low ram???

[@richardholdener1727]

same problem, loses torque compared to high ram but fits better

[@johnelliott7375]

No gusher from the low ram set up

[@timchadwick8245]

Why no lidless short ram pull? Surely would have been worth at least 1.6 hp up top 😂

[@richardholdener1727]

likely more from previous testing

[@johnelliott7375]

SBE?

[@richardholdener1727]

stock high-mileage l33 bottom end

[@Airman..]

Why do companies like FAST name short runners intake as "Race" specific knowing that long runners are better performing throughout the curve 🤔

[@NBSV1]

Because the short runners can make a little more high rpm power. With some racing you will chase the max power since you can keep it in a small rpm range.

[@richardholdener1727]

long runner don't make more power at every rpm

[@GregoryWilliams-i8x]

Now add boost and do it again please.

[@richardholdener1727]

same results-just multiplied by boost

[@camarout]

Did anybody else see the coil arcing

[@richardholdener1727]

look again-not coil arc

[@Matt-hz1oh]

I see SBE 4.8s and 5.3s turning 7k+rpm alot these days. Even boosted. My question is: can a gen 4 SBE 6.0 run 7k+ turbo'd with a stage 3 cam? No upgraded rod bolts needed?

[@richardholdener1727]

YES-SEE BIG BANG VIDEOS

[@mythos000000025]

Great job...unfortunately for me my swap dictated the ultra low ram. I have a stroked and built L33 with a summit stage 4 and related upgrades. Didn't port the heads but I plan to eventually run my 80mm vsr turbo. Compression is a little over 9.5 to 1. Plan on running roughly 10lbs, maybe less..possibly a tad more. Electronic boost controller will give me 15 to 16lb overboost with button. Engines gapped for 15+, everything forged

[@ChingoMandinguez]

Everything is forged?

[@mythos000000025]

@ChingoMandinguez well I guess the manifold isn't, it's cast. I'm still using stock valves but I'm pretty sure valves are forged already, material choices aside. Using arp studs top and bottom, full forged rotating assembly, MLS headgaskets, I guess the can isn't actually, they are hardened though. 1 piece chromoly pushrods, link bar lifters(no idea if they're forged), melling 10295 oil pump, billet pickup tube brace. Aluminum oil barbell. Stock accessories but with ict billet conversion brackets. Corvette engine mounts(no idea)...but yes...most of the engine is reinforced. Kinda wish the block was forged instead of cast though...oh well

[@mythos000000025]

Oh sorry if you were asking what I meant by everything forged. I was talking about all the rotating and power handling parts of the engine being forged an gapped for 15+lbs of boost. I wanted a somewhat overbuilt engine with a 4" stroke that would live happy reving to 7200rpm and make a daily 650+rwhp for my 3rd gen Rx7. If I later get an AWD porsche I'll do a totally aftermarket setup with BTR valvetrain designed for 10k rpm(look it up online, it's awesome) and limit it to 8500ish rpm...very gt3 territory but with torque! Thats a few years away though

[@vnv8dude]

Notice oil pressure drops off after 7k

[@rustysausage69]

2PSI is a "drop off"? lol

[@vnv8dude]

@rustysausage69 yes no big deal, but what if turning to 8500 and continues to drop off, thats not ideal

[@richardholdener1727]

who runs a stock bottom end L33 to 8500 rpm?

[@rustysausage69]

@@vnv8dude By the math it would "drop" another 4PSI before hitting 8500RPM. So 64PSI at 8500RPM....Wheres the drop off exactly?

[@drivinwithdrew7676]

Now compare that to a stock 5.3 graph to show that when, looks like it still makes good tq under 5k probably thanks to the compression

[@brandonrohrer7914]

Love ot

[@EricErnst]

Holley also makes a mid ram.

[@richardholdener1727]

doesn't work well

[@EricErnst]

@@richardholdener1727 could it be a stop-gap that will fit under some holds and provide a small torque boost in lower rpm over the low ram?

[@richardholdener1727]

I don't think it fits and it is not an intermediate runner length between these two-it is a different design

[@johnelliott7375]

2:53 Something is pouring out of the top of the engine!

[@Kstang09]

Fluttering piece of tape.

[@richardholdener1727]

points

[@totensiebush]

I'd like to see a comparison of a high ram vs a low ram with intercooler on a turbo setup... see if the charge cooling makes up for it

[@richardholdener1727]

the intercooler cannot make up for it. Runner length always does this, boost or no boost, intercooler or no intercooler

[@totensiebush]

@@richardholdener1727 I phrased it poorly: low ram with intercooler vs high ram with no intercooler, since they end up around the same height so they fit under the same hood. I'm talking about one of the AWIC that goes under the lid.

[@natelorimer8567]

Lid off. Flipping the ignition off at high rpm You have Huevos 😅

[@12race39]

But what happens when boosted

[@richardholdener1727]

exact same thing

[@12race39]

So make the same power but hi ram makes more power lower rpm? Would think once boost is in the low ram be more efficient at lower rpm or match the high ram

[@baby-sharkgto4902]

@@12race39 As Richard has been teaching, boost is a multiplier of what it is NA.

[@richardholdener1727]

Hi ram made more power through the entire curve til the hp peak at 7500 rpm. The same thing would happen under boost

[@12race39]

I was always told make the intake runners short to get the boost in fast and as the longer tub make more power na because the scavenging same as long tube headers but under boost it doesn’t .??

[@timweb1510]

Send me the low ram, I have $200 here for ya

[@richardholdener1727]

that won't even pay for shipping